RonButters at AOL.COM
RonButters at AOL.COM
Mon Nov 8 23:31:06 UTC 1999
This is--for me--a really constructive elaboration in the discussion. Yes,
the concept of "saved" seems to be more important than what I said earlier
(e.g., "have a personal realtionship with Jesus"). Still, the definition of
SAVED given below doesn't strike me as different from anything that a
Catholic or a Mormon would not agree to. So where is the essence?
Let me reiterate that I don't see this as a theological discussion but a
sociolinguistic one. That is, I am not interested in the theological
relevance of the responses, but rather how the religious responses correlate
with the treminology.
In a message dated 11/8/1999 5:20:02 PM, speed at PARADIGMTECH.COM writes:
<< I was in church yesterday with a friend; I am a regular attendee of this
Assemblies of God church, and my friend has a Catholic and Christian
Orthodox background. The bulletin advertised a membership class that
believers may attend. My friend expressed interest in attending the class,
and I said, "It says there that the class is for believers." He said, "I'm a
believer." I replied, "What they really mean is if you're saved." To me, a
believer was a person who is saved. Of course, the word "saved" opens
another can of worms, but while our theological definitions of "believer"
differ, he agrees that "saved" does not mean "believer," and he recognizes
that he is not saved. Far be it from me to discourage him from attending the
membership class; I only wanted him to understand what the bulletin meant.
This relates to the current Christianity topics because in many sects of
Christianity, you will find that people will define a Christian only as
someone who is saved. For example, a former Catholic schoolmate of mine told
me that one does not have to be Catholic to be Christian. I replied that
being Catholic does not automatically make one a Christian. He disagreed
with me, of course, but my definition differed from his in that being a
church member (any church) does not make one a Christian. By my definition,
Christianity is not something you are born into, such as Judaism or Islam.
Now, the definition of "saved," I'm sure, varies quite a lot between belief
systems. However, it seems that most people recognize the traditional
meaning: one must believe that Jesus Christ is God's son who died for
humankind's lost souls and rose from the grave; one must accept Jesus Christ
into one's life and surrender control to Him; one must confess sins and
display genuine repentance for them.
Does anyone know of instances where that definition is not accepted?
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