"Big Muddy" (Missouri or Mississippi RIver?); Barbeque (1760s)

James A. Landau JJJRLandau at AOL.COM
Sun Sep 1 22:11:27 UTC 2002

In a message dated 08/31/2002 12:46:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dave at WILTON.NET writes:

> > Enos, Salome Paddock, _Diary of Salame Paddock Enos,
>  > September 1816_, in THE DIARY OF SALOME PADDOCK ENOS,
>  > SPringifeld, IL: Illinois State Historical
>  > Society, 1920, pg. 377:
>  >
>  >    Monday 30th cloudy roads better traveled over the pyraees
>  > found pleasant beyond my expectations forded big muddy put up
>  > at a miserable cabin had an Idiot for landlady and a savage for
>  > a landlord 17 miles.
>  >
>  >
>  > Steele, Eliza R. Stansbury, _Letter from Eliza R. Steele,
>  > July 12, 1840_, in
>  > SUMMER JOURNEY IN THE WEST, New York: John S. Taylor, 1841, pg. 205:
>  >
>  >    At the mouth of Big Muddy river, forty miles below
>  > Kaskaskia, we stopped to take in wood, and we went on shore to take
>  > an evening stroll.
>  Note that there is river that is actually named the "Big Muddy" in Jackson
>  County, IL (there's a "Little Muddy" too). It's a tributary of the
>  The 1840 quote is undoubtedly a reference to this river, as the mouth of
>  Big Muddy is some 40 miles south of Kaskaskia, IL. (And the mouth of the
>  Missouri is what, some 700 miles away?) There's not enough geographical
>  context to evaluate what is meant by the 1816 quote

on the contrary.  The 1816 quote says "forded big muddy" but neither the
Mississippi nor the Missouri is fordable.  In fact the combined river is deep
enough that sandhogs on the Eads Bridge at St. Louis suffered from "the
bends" (documented last spring on this list).  Hence the 1816 quote refers to
some smaller and shallower stream.  You are correct about the 1840 quote.

     - Jim Landau

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