From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Tue Apr 1 00:31:05 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:31:05 -0500 Subject: re use of OED In-Reply-To: <000d01c2f7dd$3d8896f0$6901a8c0@P1120> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, mark worden wrote: > Please disregard and destroy the post, "red line via OED" wherein the author > of that post quoted copyrighted material, without permission. Do you mean you think you did something wrong in posting the quotations without permission of the quotation authors, or that you did something wrong in posting editorial material from the OED? Either interpretation of copyright law and fair use would cast many of us on this list in a very, very bad light indeed! Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 01:02:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:02:32 -0500 Subject: Palm oil (1692) Message-ID: OED has 1705 for "palm oil." Some say it's bad for you; I forgot which vacation I was on where it was used in everything. From Early English Books Online: Author: Salmon, William, 1644-1713. Title: Medicina practica, or, Practical physick shewing the method of curing the most usual diseases happening to humane bodies ... : to which is added, the philosophick works of Hermes Trismegistus, Kalid Persicus, Geber Arabs, Artesius Longævus, Nicholas Flammel, Roger Bachon and George Ripley : all translated out of the best Latin editions into English ... : together with a singular comment upon the first book of Hermes, the most ancient of philosophers : the whole compleated in three books / by William Salmon ... Publication date: 1692. Search results: 1 match in full text table of contents | view text | add to bookbag SALMON'S Practical Physick. The First BOOK. > CHAP. XVII. Of BUBOES. • ... nces, Figgs three Ounces, Galbanum and Ammoniacum strained, Le|ven, Mustard-seed, of each an Ounce, Palm Oil, Oil of Amber, ana half an Ounce; mix, and make a Cataplasm. In a cold Bubo ... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 01:38:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:38:13 -0500 Subject: Pattypan Squash (1835); Pattypan Pie (1841) Message-ID: PATTYPAN SQUASH The latest volue of DARE (P-SK) has "pattypan squash" from 1863. The American Periodical Series is working again: The Genesee Farmer and Gardener's Journal (1831-1839), Rochester; Aug 22, 1835; Vol. 5, Iss. 34 Hybrid squashes; Anonymous; pg. 265, 1 pgs ("The Bush or Pattypan Squash (_Cucurbea melapepo_)..." It's very hard to read, but it's here--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- PATTYPAN PIE From the North Amerian Women's Letters and Diaries database: Platt, Jeanette Hulme. "Letter from Jeannette Hulme Platt to Martha Hulme Canfield, January 02, 1841" [Page 38 | Paragraph | Section | Document] sole occupant of the spacious kitchen of Point Pleasant for the day. Commencing at 10½ o'clock I made thirty-one pies! Mince pies? Yes, thirty-one mince pies! Was not that enough of itself to make me begin to be "poorly." To be sure, for the sake of exactness, I must say sixteen were little patty-pan pies the size of my thumb. And then I said I was sole occupant of the kitchen. Mary Ann and Phoebe were both there. I had a fine time after all, as I told mother last evening. By begging and bribing I had dry wood cut by Bill to fit the oven, and dry wood cut to fit the stove, and Results Bibliography Platt, Jeanette Hulme, 1816-1877, Letter from Jeannette Hulme Platt to Martha Hulme Canfield, January 02, 1841, in Life and Letters of Mrs. Jeanette H. Platt. Platt, Cyrus. Philadelphia, PA: E. Claxton & Co., 1882, pp. 363. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [1-2-1841] S166-D009 From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 1 01:38:43 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:38:43 -0800 Subject: Palm oil (1692) In-Reply-To: <5D637272.67099074.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: ... Nicholas Flammel, ... He of Harry Potter fame??? Rima From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Tue Apr 1 02:03:31 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:03:31 -0800 Subject: re use of OED Message-ID: Dang, I don't mean to cast a bad light on anybody. Interpretation of copyright law is not within my competence. Clearly. Excuse me, I'm in over my head here. Quark out, and not beating his wife any more either Lower Umpqua Addictive Conundrum Institute ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shapiro" To: Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 4:31 PM Subject: Re: re use of OED > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Fred Shapiro > Subject: Re: re use of OED > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, mark worden wrote: > > > Please disregard and destroy the post, "red line via OED" wherein the author > > of that post quoted copyrighted material, without permission. > > Do you mean you think you did something wrong in posting the quotations > without permission of the quotation authors, or that you did something > wrong in posting editorial material from the OED? Either interpretation > of copyright law and fair use would cast many of us on this list in a > very, very bad light indeed! > > Fred Shapiro > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS > Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 1 02:05:10 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:05:10 -0500 Subject: Dropping final consonants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not aware of the prosodic conditioning, and I'd like to hear more about that. However, here in Muncie, IN, I here a lot of glottal stop for final /t/, with no /t/. Given the normal glottalization of final fortis consonants, this seems pretty clearly to be final /t/ deletion. Since final /t/ deletes between consonants, deletion after a glottal stop may be a further generalization of the process? I haven't heard final /p/ or /k/ deletion after a glottal stop around here. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Alice Faber Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 3:33 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Dropping final consonants AAllan at AOL.COM said: >A non-linguist colleague of mine declares that he hears students dropping >final consonants. He puts it this way: > >< >consonants off words? Many students, it seems to me, are saying "buh" for > >"but," "wha'" for "what," "tha" for "that," etc. Have you noticed anything > >like this? If it is occurring, what could be the cause?>> > >and then he followed up with > >< >conversation with a fine student, I said to myself, "I wish Allan were here >to > >listen to this." She is highly intelligent, focused, etc., but she repeatedly > >dropped the last consonant from words. About two minutes ago another >student, > >a fellow, dropped by, and he did the same in about five instances. (Maybe > >it's my hearing!)>> > >Anything new to this? Is it just a matter of hearing what has been happening >all along? I'd like to see more examples. These examples all end with /t/, and this might be a matter of "glottal replacement". Or the stops might just be unreleased. I hear both variants frequently, at all levels of formality. It's extremely variable by speaker, and, for some speakers, there appears to be prosodic conditioning as well. -- =========================================================================== == Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 1 03:02:07 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:02:07 -0500 Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A few years ago I posted a brief comment on implosives that I've heard from speakers from the Lower Great Plains, a label I've made up for a region running from Oklahoma and northern Texas up to southern Nebraska and east into Missouri and Arkansas. This is not by way of defining an isogloss, because I haven't surveyed the area and I don't know how far the phenomenon extends. I'm basing it on where the speakers I've heard are from. The phenomenon is that initial voiced stops in stressed syllables become implosives. This appears not to happen in consonant+liquid clusters, and it doesn't happen finally or in unstressed syllables. Ladefoged mentions that implosives sometimes occur in English for emphasis and gives the example "billions and billions" where both /b/ are imploded. I haven't observed this myself, and it doesn't sound as if he and I are referring to the same phenomenon. However, this is the only published reference I've seen to implosives in English. I've also found a reference by Fred Cummins http://cspeech.ucd.ie/~fred/courses/phonetics/airstream1.html to an implosive /b/ that he associates impressionistically with a Texas accent. Does anyone know of other published or www discussions of implosives in American English (I don't know if Ladefoged's reference is American)? Herb From GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU Tue Apr 1 03:44:33 2003 From: GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU (Gordon, Matthew J.) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:44:33 -0600 Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives Message-ID: I think Ladefoged was thinking of Carl Sagan - "billions and billions" was a catch phrase of Sagan impressionists. I'm very intrigued by Herb's observations. I hadn't noticed implosives in Missouri, but then I mainly listen to vowels. I wonder if Alice or someone else could tell us whether there are acoustic cues for implosives that would be recognizable in a spectrogram. -----Original Message----- From: Herbert Stahlke [mailto:hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET] Sent: Mon 3/31/2003 9:02 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Cc: Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives A few years ago I posted a brief comment on implosives that I've heard from speakers from the Lower Great Plains, a label I've made up for a region running from Oklahoma and northern Texas up to southern Nebraska and east into Missouri and Arkansas. This is not by way of defining an isogloss, because I haven't surveyed the area and I don't know how far the phenomenon extends. I'm basing it on where the speakers I've heard are from. The phenomenon is that initial voiced stops in stressed syllables become implosives. This appears not to happen in consonant+liquid clusters, and it doesn't happen finally or in unstressed syllables. Ladefoged mentions that implosives sometimes occur in English for emphasis and gives the example "billions and billions" where both /b/ are imploded. I haven't observed this myself, and it doesn't sound as if he and I are referring to the same phenomenon. However, this is the only published reference I've seen to implosives in English. I've also found a reference by Fred Cummins http://cspeech.ucd.ie/~fred/courses/phonetics/airstream1.html to an implosive /b/ that he associates impressionistically with a Texas accent. Does anyone know of other published or www discussions of implosives in American English (I don't know if Ladefoged's reference is American)? Herb From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 03:48:46 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:48:46 -0500 Subject: Coalition of the Willing (1991); Nuanced Objectivity; OT: Columbia comments Message-ID: COALITION OF THE WILLING I thought it was just some speechwriter's phrase mouthed by President Bush recently (over 5,000 Factiva hits!), but it's much older and has a definite source that MIT grad Fred Shapiro might be interested in. The following is in a story that involves the United Nations: 1 May 1991, THE FUTURIST (Factiva): ,,,what Massachusetts Institute of Technology political science professor Lincoln Bloomfield calls a "coalition of the willing." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NUANCED OBJECTIVITY From today's www.andrewsullivan.com: THE NYT ON THE BBC: The Axis of Bias now exists. But check out the simply glorious Times' description of the BBC's coverage of the war: "nuanced objectivity." I think I'm going to rename our regular media bias updates as "Nuanced Objectivity Watch." - 2:16:27 AM Sullivan often calls the BBC the "Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation." I don't know if that one will catch on, but "nuance" might. Sullivan today wrote a lot about what's happening at Columbia, so, without further nuance... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OT: COLUMBIA COMMENTS ("A million Mogadishus") I'm just a guest here trying to antedate "rutabaga," so I don't want to upset the apple cart. But what's happened has made international news. At a "teach-in" on Wednesday night, assistant professor of anthropology Nicholas De Genova called for "a million Mogadishus." (A place where American soldiers were killed.) In today's COLUMBIA SPECTATOR staff editorial, pg. 4: "By keeping De Genova on board, Columbia would show that it values free speech, but also that it tolerates simplistic, lazy rhetoric in lieu of nuanced argumentation." Nuanced argumentation! Sullivan and others have pointed out that this Columbia professor advocates killing Jews as well as killing Americans. "Free speech" (at a "teach-in"?) means that you can't fire a lunatic? What do you have to say to get fired at Columbia University? "Kill Americans!" won't do it? "Kill Jews!" is just fine? Do you have to say "niggardly"? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 04:27:35 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:27:35 -0500 Subject: Picnic Ham (1890) Message-ID: OED has 1910 for "picnic ham." There are many advertisements in the NEW YORK TIMES of 1903 for "Armour's Picnic Hams," but there are earlier hits. This is the first: 16 May 1890, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 2: ...California Hams, 6c, and boxed sweet-pickled picnic Hams, averaging 10 lb, 6 1/2c. From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Tue Apr 1 04:31:37 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:31:37 -0500 Subject: up the wazoo/kazoo Message-ID: If I missed a discussion of these terms as they relate to "anus," all I can plead is that I searched. RHDHAS lists "kazoo" to mean "anus" from 1965. I tend to think, at least in the US, that the term "wazoo" has, in the last 10-20 years, overtaken "kazoo" in phrases such as "blow it out your wazoo" and "up your wazoo." Since we can't read Vol. III of RHDHAS, can anyone cite when "wazoo" became the term of choice? Along with "wazoo" we would also like to know about the use of "...out your ying/yang." Again, no Vol III. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 05:12:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:12:20 -0500 Subject: Prime Rib (1857, 1876, 1938); Potato Stick (1937, 1941) Message-ID: PRIME RIB OED has 1892 for "prime joint," then 1960 for "prime rib." Another prime BROOKLYN EAGLE citation. 22 December 1857, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: BUTCHERS MARKET SIRLOIN STEAK...PORTER HOUSE...PRIME RIB...ROUND STEAK...CORNED RUMP... 12 November 1876, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 7: ...prime rib roasts, 15 to 18 cents;... Word Mark LAWRY'S THE PRIME RIB Goods and Services IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: Restaurant, bar and catering services. FIRST USE: 19380100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19380100 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 76199086 Filing Date January 24, 2001 Published for Opposition December 10, 2002 Registration Number 2692153 Registration Date March 4, 2003 Owner (REGISTRANT) LIPTON INVESTMENTS, INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 501 SILVERSIDE ROAD WILMINGTON DELAWARE 19801 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record STEPHEN A GOLDSMITH Prior Registrations 0721664;1028961;1140026 Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)-IN PART Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Distinctiveness Limitation Statement as to "THE PRIME RIB" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ POTATO STICK Doesn't go well with "prime rib," but I'm on the letter P right now. OED has 1972 for "potato stick." I just checked the ADS-L archives, and someone named Popik found "potato stick" in the 1937 NEW YORK HERALD TRIBUNE that beats this. I hate that guy. Crisp Potato Sticks Are Newest Delicacy To Serve as Appetizer at Cocktail Time; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 19, 1941; pg. 17, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 05:50:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:50:49 -0500 Subject: Razor Clam (1880); Reconstitute (1905) Message-ID: RAZOR CLAM OED has 1882 for "razor clam." A FEAST BY THE SEA-SIDE; THE BIG AND THE LITTLE FISH AT DINNER. A GREAT MEAL OF SHARKS' FINS, RAZORCLAMS, HORSESHOE CRABS, SQUID, SWORD-FISH, STURGEON, AND WOLF-FISH.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 1, 1880; pg. 5, 1 pgs THE ICHTHYOPHAGOUS.; PORCUPINES, GUINEA PIGS, ARMY-WORMS, AND WEEDS--WILL THERE BE A CORONER IN ATTENDANCE?; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 27, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs THE TROUBLES OF A COMMITTEE.; MATTERS ICHTHYOPHAGOUS--DISCUSSIONS ON THE HORSESHOE CRAB--THE RAZOR CLAM--WHAT IS THE SIZE OF A BEAVER'S TAIL?; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 20, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RECONSTITUTE OED has 1917 for "reconstitute" in connection with food. Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jun 16, 1906; Vol. Vol. XCIV., Iss. 0 1. DRIED MILK--A NEW PROCESS.; pg. 492, 1 pgs (Col. 3: "The reconstituted milk, while it has all the properties of real milk, has a flat taste and is, of course, not as palatable as the original article.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 06:14:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 01:14:32 -0500 Subject: Rizcous (1989); Wehani (1983) Message-ID: RIZCOUS Not in OED. Rizcous=Rice couscous. Food Notes: ...Rice that resembles couscous...; Florence Fabricant; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 14, 1989; pg. C7, 1 pgs ("Lundberg Family Farms, a Richvale, Calif. company that grows rice, has developed Rizcous, a brown-rice product that resembles couscous.") Word Mark RIZ COUS Translations THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE WORD "RIZ" IN THE MARK IS "RICE". Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: DRY MIX FOR PREPARING A RICE-BASED COUSCOUS. FIRST USE: 19890131. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19890131 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73821397 Filing Date August 24, 1989 Published for Opposition January 30, 1990 Registration Number 1593274 Registration Date April 24, 1990 Owner (REGISTRANT) WEHAH FARM, INC. DBA LUNDBERG FAMILY FORMS CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 5370 CHURCH STREET RICHVALE CALIFORNIA 959740369 Attorney of Record PAUL W. VAPNEK Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "RIZ" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date May 9, 2001 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- WEHANI Not in OED. NOT THE SAME OLD RICE; BY JOANNA PRUESS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 6, 1987; pg. SM49, 2 pgs (Pg. SM50, col. 1: "Wehani rice is the color of dark honey; the texture and flavor are a gutsy meeting of brown, white and wild-rice qualities. This basmati adaptation is grown by Lundberg Family Farms in Richvale, Calif.") Word Mark WEHANI Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: RICE. FIRST USE: 19830701. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19830701 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73768590 Filing Date November 28, 1988 Published for Opposition June 12, 1990 Registration Number 1612223 Registration Date September 4, 1990 Owner (REGISTRANT) WEHAH FARM, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA P.O. BOX 369 RICHVALE CALIFORNIA 959740369 Attorney of Record PAUL W. VAPNEK Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date September 21, 2001 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 07:09:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 02:09:53 -0500 Subject: Maraschino cherry Message-ID: OK, last one before parking tickets. I'll save "rose hips" for another day. OED has 1905 for "maraschino cherry," coined by O. Henry. This is after the revision, where you'd expect "great author" coinages to be knocked out. "Maraschino," in various spellings, goes back to the 1790s. Our old friend the BROOKLYN EAGLE comes in handy again. 23 August 1900, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 4 ad: Maraschino Cherries--Pitted and imported from France. 15 September 1900, NATIONAL POLICE GAZETTE (American Periodical Series), pg. 14 (in a recipe for the "Zaza" cocktail): ..one-half bar spoonful of juice of Maraschino cherries... 14 December 1902, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 10 ad: 1 bottle MARASCHINO CHERRIES. From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 1 09:56:55 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:56:55 -0500 Subject: FW: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) Message-ID: RE Barry P's inquiry below: New England -- used in 1616 by John Smith in his _Description of New England_; this per Mathews Dict of Americanisms. Mathews has nothing very early on New York. Frank Abate ****************** What does the OED revision have? New York 1714? New England 1638? Will there be any dates/entries for "New Amsterdam" and "New Netherlands"? This is really for OED, but someone on the list can respond. I'd like to write something for the New-York Historical Society, and I'd like to see these entries. New York City is turning 350, so something closer to 1653 is more like it. Here's a check of EARLY ENGLISH BOOKS ONLINE: New Amsterdam--no hits New Netherland--William Castell A SHORT DISCOVERIE (1644) New York--Thomas Sprat COPIES OF THE INFORMATION (1685) New England--Peter Heylyn A LITTLE DESCRIPTION OF THE GREAT WORLD (1625); William Alexander, Earl of Stirling THE MAPP AND DESCRIPTION OF NEVV-ENGLAND (1630) (See also "'New England' Defined" at http://www.usm.maine.edu/~maps/exhibit2.sec4.htm) From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 1 10:42:53 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:42:53 -0500 Subject: FW: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) Message-ID: More on Barry P's query: New York -- King Charles II granted, by royal charter, all the land from the Connecticut River to the Delaware River to his brother, the Duke of York, in 1664. That document specifies what land is included (in the language of a deed), and may well refer to the granted territory as "New York"; I do not have immediate access to the entire document. In any case, the Duke of York took possession of New Amsterdam (present-day New York City; well, only the very S tip of Manhattan, really) with an armed fleet in 1664, and surely then imposed his name in order to wipe out the Dutchness of the place. The Dutch retook the city in 1673, but held it for only a brief time, as it was taken back by the English in 1674 by the Treaty of Westminster. In that same year the Duke of York "perfected his title" on the land by obtaining a new royal grant. (Brotherly love, I guess, and Philadelphia had nothing to do with it.) btw, in 1664 the Duke of York sold his title to what is now New Jersey to Lord John Berkeley and Sir George Carteret. And in 1682 he sold title to what is now Delaware and the land on the west bank of the Delaware River to William Penn. Further btw, this same Duke of York became King James II after Charles II died in 1685. He was only king briefly, however, as his Catholic leanings did not sit well on the throne of England. He was ousted and went into exile in France, and William (of Orange) and Mary were brought in to be monarchs for the UK. Frank Abate *********************** What does the OED revision have? New York 1714? New England 1638? Will there be any dates/entries for "New Amsterdam" and "New Netherlands"? This is really for OED, but someone on the list can respond. I'd like to write something for the New-York Historical Society, and I'd like to see these entries. New York City is turning 350, so something closer to 1653 is more like it. Here's a check of EARLY ENGLISH BOOKS ONLINE: New Amsterdam--no hits New Netherland--William Castell A SHORT DISCOVERIE (1644) New York--Thomas Sprat COPIES OF THE INFORMATION (1685) New England--Peter Heylyn A LITTLE DESCRIPTION OF THE GREAT WORLD (1625); William Alexander, Earl of Stirling THE MAPP AND DESCRIPTION OF NEVV-ENGLAND (1630) (See also "'New England' Defined" at http://www.usm.maine.edu/~maps/exhibit2.sec4.htm) From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Tue Apr 1 13:33:03 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:33:03 -0500 Subject: "embed" and "shock and awe" Message-ID: Geoffrey York has another article in today's Globe and Mail detailing the worsening tribulations experienced by "unilaterals": http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030329.uyork0401/BNStor y/International Note, too, that the term "unilateral" was in use during the first Gulf war: http://www.wordspy.com/words/unilateral.asp Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Abate" To: "ADS-L" ; "DSNA list," Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: [DSNA] "embed" and "shock and awe" > > For the details on one journalist's view of NOT being embedded, see the > article in the Globe and Mail: > > http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030322/FCCOVB/ > > . . . which Vida M already cited. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 16:55:34 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:55:34 EST Subject: FW: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/1/2003 5:43:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET writes: > his Catholic leanings > did not sit well on the throne of England. interesting metaphor.                    - Jim Landau From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Tue Apr 1 18:19:16 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:19:16 -0500 Subject: Palm oil (1692) Message-ID: It's interesting that OED has "palm oil" in the sense of "bribe" from Thomas Middleton, Game of Chess, "a1627". Does this imply that "palm oil" = "oil from a palm nut" was already known to Middleton? The sense of "bribe" seems to be a joke on a preexisting literal meaning. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bapopik at AOL.COM Date: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:02 pm Subject: Palm oil (1692) > OED has 1705 for "palm oil." Some say it's bad for you; I > forgot which vacation I was on where it was used in everything. > From Early English Books Online: > > > Author: Salmon, William, 1644-1713. > Title: Medicina practica, or, Practical physick shewing the method > of curing the most usual diseases happening to humane bodies ... : > to which is added, the philosophick works of Hermes Trismegistus, > Kalid Persicus, Geber Arabs, Artesius Longævus, Nicholas Flammel, > Roger Bachon and George Ripley : all translated out of the best > Latin editions into English ... : together with a singular comment > upon the first book of Hermes, the most ancient of philosophers : > the whole compleated in three books / by William Salmon ... > Publication date: 1692. > Search results: 1 match in full text > table of contents | view text | add to bookbag > SALMON'S Practical Physick. The First BOOK. > CHAP. XVII. Of BUBOES. > • ... nces, Figgs three Ounces, Galbanum and Ammoniacum strained, > Le|ven, Mustard-seed, of each an Ounce, Palm Oil, Oil of Amber, > ana half an Ounce; mix, and make a Cataplasm. In a cold Bubo ... > From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 1 18:26:09 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:26:09 -0800 Subject: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > What does the OED revision have? New York 1714? New > England 1638? Will there be any dates/entries for "New > Amsterdam" and "New Netherlands"? > This is really for OED, but someone on the list can > respond. I'd like to write something for the New-York > Historical Society, and I'd like to see these entries. > New York City is turning 350, so something closer to 1653 > is more like it. My understanding is the OED does not include geographic names unless they are used attributively. The 1714 cite is for "New York Biscuit," (one of Barry's contributions?), not for the name of the city itself. Similarly the 1638 cite is for "New England men." From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Tue Apr 1 23:21:35 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:21:35 -0500 Subject: Query: Hat Trick in Dialect Notes Vol. 5 Message-ID: Please respond to the original submitter, and to the list, but not to me. Début du message réexpédié : > De: "andrew podnieks" > Date: Tue 1 Apr 2003 17:20:15 America/New_York > Objet: Question for the ADS Webmaster > > I am hoping you can help me follow up on some research I did which led > me to the ADS. In Dialect Notes volume 5 (1918-1927) there is a > reference on page 449 to the following: "hat trick--the passing of the > hat for a collection at the end of a soap box oration" and I wonder if > you can tell me anything more about this. For instance, what date was > its first usage in this context? The reference falls in a section > entitled "The Jargon of the Underworld" and was compiled, I believe, > by Elisha K. Kane at the University of North Carolina. Is this person > still alive and working there? Are her notes for the discovery of this > word and usage available? Any information at all to delve further into > that term hat trick would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, Andrew Podnieks at moydartpress at idirect.com. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 02:47:56 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:47:56 EST Subject: Village Voice's "War Glossary" Message-ID: This week's VILLAGE VOICE has a "War Glossary": http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0314/cotts.php The terms are the usual stuff, with not much insight. "Cakewalk" is here--see COMMENTS ON ETYMOLOGY for the origin of that. "Coalition of the Willing" is here, but the true origin of the term isn't discussed. The usual VILLAGE VOICE Bush-bashing is in some of the definitions. "Theives of Iraq" is curiously defined as being based on the Egyptian movie THIEVES OF THAILAND. What???? No one remembers the classic Douglas Fairbanks movie, THIEF OF BAGDAD (1924)? It's been remade many times since then. Thailand???? From douglas at NB.NET Wed Apr 2 06:22:31 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 01:22:31 -0500 Subject: up the wazoo/kazoo In-Reply-To: <000801c2f807$9657ef40$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: >RHDHAS lists "kazoo" to mean "anus" from 1965. I tend to think, at least >in the US, that the term "wazoo" has, in the last 10-20 years, overtaken >"kazoo" in phrases such as "blow it out your wazoo" and "up your wazoo." In my own experience (not necessarily representative) "wazoo" was more prevalent than "kazoo" for "anus" all along ... that's since ca. 1965. There is also "gazoo" (in HDAS), and there are many variants (e.g., one acquaintance uses "[up the] gazooby"). >Along with "wazoo" we would also like to know about the use of "...out >your ying/yang." I've heard this since the 1970's. Chapman's dictionary shows 1960's, and shows "ying-yang" for "penis" as well as "anus". I've heard both, and I've also heard "wazoo" used for "penis". I think all of these terms (also "flimflam", "ding-dong", etc., in similar use) are basically pseudo-euphemisms equivalent to "thingamajig" or "whatsis" or "dingus" or "whangdoodle" (which is the likely ancestor of "wang" = "penis" IMHO). A word which means "nameless organ" can easily be transferred from "penis" to "anus", and MAYBE this is what happened to "kazoo" (originally a tubular musical instrument). [I do NOT believe "ying-yang" is a direct descendent of Chinese "yin-yang", nor a calque.] -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 08:10:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 03:10:19 EST Subject: White Tea; Rose Hip Tea (1960) Message-ID: WHITE TEA No OED entry. From the WALL STREET JOURNAL, 1 April 2003, pg. D8, col. 1: _Wave of White Tea Is Coming_ THIS YEAR'S hot ingredient, whether in a beverage or a cosmetic, is _white tea_. Already the basis for a skin-care line, "A Perfect World," by Estee Lauder's Origins brand, white tea is expected to show up soon in vitamins, hair-care products and fragrances. 24 September 1994, GROCER (Dow Jones database), pg. 37: _Instant withdrawal Withdraws Scottish Blend and PG Tips brands of instant white tea, but may reintroduce them later._ 20 April 1998, INTERNATIONAL PRODUCT ALERT (Dow Jones): Tea Total is the name of what is touted as the first Instant White Tea to be marketed in the United Kingdom. Launched by Asda, the tea is described as a combination of Indonesian tea and low-fat whitener in a tea bag. It has been developed so that the whitener dissolves immediately and the tea diffuses slowly. In this way, consumers can achieve a milky cup in about 30 seconds, or can get a strong cup of tea by leaving the bag to steep for longer. 20 March 2000, U. S. NEWSWIRE (Dow Jones): They (Oregon State University researchers--ed.) presented their research--the first on white tea--at the 219th national meeting of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society. Among the rarest and most expensive varieties of tea, white tea is produced almost exclusively in China. Typed DrawingWord Mark WHITE TEA Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: Beverages, namely tea Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75566343 Filing Date October 6, 1998 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Owner (APPLICANT) Kabbani, Janice H. DBA ROZEZ, Ltd. SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP ARIZONA 7837 N. 47th Street Paradise Valley ARIZONA 85253 Attorney of Record Thomas W. Cole Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date September 16, 1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- ROSE HIP TEA OED has 1964 for "rose hip tea." 25 April 1960, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 35: Confined to tea bags are such flavors as rose hip, sarsaparilla, papaya leaf and alfalfa peppermint teas. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 08:56:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 03:56:49 EST Subject: Black Drama database; Tillamook (1908) Message-ID: BLACK DRAMA DATABASE NYU gets a BLACK DRAMA database. The plays are from 1850 to the present. It's from the same people who do the "letters and diaries" databases (Civil War; North American Women; British and Irish Women). Maybe an NYU Bobst Library librarian who wrote a book on the AFRICAN THEATRE knows more about it. I didn't find it that helpful. SLANG--Only 15 uninteresting hits. SOUL FOOD--"Soul food, bitch" is in A MINOR SCENE (1966) by Ed Bullins. BIG APPLE--"Wouldn't you like to ride up to the Big Apple with me, and let me treat you to a wimpy?" is in JOY TO MY SOUL (1937) by Langston Hughes. BOOGIE WOOGIE--"Boogie woogie" in SHAKESPEARE IN HARLEM (1942) by Langston Hughes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- DRAG RACE, OLD COLLEGE TRY The "drag race" article is at: http://espn.go.com/magazine/ I'm having trouble opening the site up. I don't know if my work got in--I always get contacted on these things late. I went to the local newsstand and bought the March 31, 2003 ESPN MAGAZINE, but it looks like it's last week's issue."What's the old college try?" (by the same ANSWER GUY who contacted me) is on page 42. He asked "Ask Oxford" (Margot Charlton answered), who read the 1927 citation from the HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG, which got it from our own AMERICAN SPEECH. I had posted 1919 and 1924 citations here. Oxford should have my work.. Where did my work go? Yeesh. Two "answer guys" miss my stuff in the past three days. That's why I do parking tickets. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- TILLAMOOK Is DARE interested in "Tillamook"? Let's check out the whiz behind Fairway's cheese section, the big cheese himself: CHEESE PRIMER by Steve Jenkins New York: Workman Publishing 1996 Pg. 419: TILLAMOOK COUNTY CREAMERY ASSOCIATION This is a big outfit, a cooperative that dates back to 1909. This arrived today from NYPL's "offsite": REPORT OF THE 1907 CONVENTION OF THE OREGON STATE DAIRY ASSOCIATION Portland, Oregon: Oregon State Dairy Association 1908 Pg. 46 (Captions to three photos--ed.): IN TILLAMOOK COUNTY (1) Many large barns like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. (2) Many cheese factories like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. (3) Tons of cheese in curing room of one of Tillamook County factories. From orinkh at CARR.ORG Wed Apr 2 17:11:36 2003 From: orinkh at CARR.ORG (Orin Hargraves) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:11:36 -0500 Subject: war words glossed Message-ID: For anyone who hasn't had his/her fill, here is the BBC's roundup of war words: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2909173.stm Orin Hargraves From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed Apr 2 17:45:33 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:45:33 -0800 Subject: Black Drama database; Tillamook (1908) In-Reply-To: <143.dd9a252.2bbbffd1@aol.com> Message-ID: Coming from only a few counties away ... I'm wondering about the following. Tillamook Cheese is a brand name rather than a particular type of cheese. Tillamook is the brand name used by the TCCA. From their website (www.tillamookcheese.com): "Back in 1909 the farmers of Tillamook County joined hands, so to speak, and formed the Tillamook County Creamery Association (TCCA) to serve as quality control. Later TCCA expanded to incorporate all 25 operating cheese factories in Tillamook County, Oregon. To this day, the cooperative continues to produce top quality milk, dairy products and a sound future for the farmers of our beautiful Oregon valley. We are committed to stewardship of the environment and community involvement." The cites in the 1907 report refer to barns and cheese factories, located in Tillamook County, but I don't think they show a usage of "Tillamook cheese" either as a brand or a type although they document a cheese making industry in Tillamook County (as a kid I don't remember them producing anything but cheddar cheese, although now they have jack, colby and cheese curds, as well as ice-cream and other dairy products). For anyone visiting the Oregon coast, it's a worthwhile place to stop. FWIW Tillamook is pronounced TIL at muk, at least by me. allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > TILLAMOOK > > Is DARE interested in "Tillamook"? Let's check out the whiz behind > Fairway's cheese section, the big cheese himself: > > CHEESE PRIMER > by Steve Jenkins > New York: Workman Publishing > 1996 > Pg. 419: TILLAMOOK COUNTY CREAMERY ASSOCIATION > This is a big outfit, a cooperative that dates back to 1909. > > This arrived today from NYPL's "offsite": > > REPORT OF THE 1907 CONVENTION OF THE > OREGON STATE DAIRY ASSOCIATION > Portland, Oregon: Oregon State Dairy Association > 1908 > Pg. 46 (Captions to three photos--ed.): > IN TILLAMOOK COUNTY > (1) Many large barns like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. > (2) Many cheese factories like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. > (3) Tons of cheese in curing room of one of Tillamook County factories. > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 18:19:24 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:19:24 EST Subject: war words glossed Message-ID: newspaper headline recently: "Iraq's Best Lie In Wait At Gap" Hmm. Now we know where Credibility Gap is. - Jim Landau From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Wed Apr 2 18:22:01 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:22:01 -0800 Subject: war words glossed In-Reply-To: <1ec.5ac7a3c.2bbc83ac@aol.com> Message-ID: Does 'Credibility Gap' also have a division called 'Army and Navy'? :) Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of James A. Landau Sent: April 2, 2003 10:19 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: war words glossed newspaper headline recently: "Iraq's Best Lie In Wait At Gap" Hmm. Now we know where Credibility Gap is. - Jim Landau From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Wed Apr 2 18:58:00 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:58:00 -0800 Subject: Black Drama database; Tillamook (1908) Message-ID: >>> maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU 04/02/03 09:45AM >>> >FWIW Tillamook is pronounced TIL at muk, at least by me. Right on. Fritz From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 20:07:11 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:07:11 EST Subject: war words glossed Message-ID: Mona Charen has a column on America On-Line News today in which she states, in a discussion of Peter Arnett: Remember the phrase, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"? It has become totemic. Arnett was the originator of the phrase. The trouble is, as first B.G. Burkett and then I discovered after a little investigation, the report was wrong. It wasn't the United States that destroyed Ben Tre (a town, not a village), but the Vietcong. And the soldier Arnett was most likely quoting remembers saying, "It was a shame the town was destroyed," not the fatuity Arnett made famous. Does anyone know if Charen is correct? - Jim Landau From millerk at NYTIMES.COM Wed Apr 2 20:42:13 2003 From: millerk at NYTIMES.COM (Kathleen E. Miller) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:42:13 -0500 Subject: war words glossed In-Reply-To: <25.36c10064.2bbc9cef@aol.com> Message-ID: At 03:07 PM 4/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Mona Charen has a column on America On-Line News today in which she states, >in a discussion of Peter Arnett: > > >Remember the phrase, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"? It >has become totemic. Arnett was the originator of the phrase. The trouble is, >as first B.G. Burkett and then I discovered after a little investigation, the >report was wrong. It wasn't the United States that destroyed Ben Tre (a town, >not a village), but the Vietcong. And the soldier Arnett was most likely >quoting remembers saying, "It was a shame the town was destroyed," not the >fatuity Arnett made famous. > > >Does anyone know if Charen is correct? > > - Jim Landau There is a contemporary report in the New York Times: "At Ben Tre, a once placid Mekong Delta river city with a population of 35,000, and unnamed United States major looked out last week over the wreckage in which 500 and possibly 1,000 civilians dead and told Peter Arnett of the Associated Press: "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it." Nothing happening in the world of finance, economics, or newspapering in the week can compare to what happened at Ben Tre. Nevertheless, the upside-down logic that brought down 500-pound bombs, napalm, rockets, antipersonnel bombs, and 105 millimeter artillery shells on the city - "to save it" - may have parallels." Two Kinds of Warfare; Parallels Found Between Psychology Of Vietnam and Defense of the Dollar; By ALBERT L. KRAUS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 14, 1968; pg. 61, 2 pgs But that doesn't mean that's the way it happened. Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The New York Times From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Apr 2 23:04:19 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:04:19 -0800 Subject: war words glossed In-Reply-To: <25.36c10064.2bbc9cef@aol.com> Message-ID: >Mona Charen has a column on America On-Line News today in which she states, >in a discussion of Peter Arnett: > > >Remember the phrase, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"? I heard something similar on the news yesterday (in SF) via Pete Wilson, a reporter I trust. He didn't mention the different village, but did mention that other soldiers & reporters there heard no such thing, and that the officer supposedly quoted doesn't remember saying any such thing. Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 02:06:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:06:07 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966); "New York" & "New England" in maps Message-ID: MANZANA Robert S. Gold's JAZZ LEXICON (1962) is in the NYU Bobst Library. It was his Ph.D. thesis paper, and it became a book in 1964. This is from JAZZ TALK (Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill Company, Inc., 1975) by Robert S. Gold, pg. 4: _apple (big)_ (...) 1966 _Record Research_, June, pg. 7. My suspicion (is) that _Big Apple_ is a (Pg. 5--ed.) transliteration of the older Mexican idiom "Manzana principale" for the main square of the town of the downtown area. Because Michael Quinion was interested, I rechecked RECORD RESEARCH. The citation's wrong. It's worth quoting at length. From RECORD RESEARCH, _January_ 1966, pg. 7: BEYOND THE IMPRESSION ETYMOLOGY REPORTED BY JOHN STEINER (...) If anyone wanted to take JAZZ LEXIKON (sic) apart, he could do a far job using only the legends on phonograph records as the source for words and phrases used in specific connotation by jazz and bluesmen. For exmple, Gold omits HEEBIE JEEBIES which could be defined with another title: jangles nerves. He overlooks ROCKS IN MY BED as the kind of blues which causes insomnia, and that DOWN TO THE BRICKS means either 1) broke or 2) disconsolate, depending on context. He includes most of the miscellaneous instruments, but forgot the GOOFUS. He didn't recognize a BUFFET FLAT as a musical speakeasy (anyway invariably food, usually music). His definition of "struggle" did not include the meaning implied when Oliver immortalized the infirm second-hand auto with the appelation STRUGGLE BUGGY. While listing the inferior "stick", "reefer" and even ignoble "roach", Gold does Mezz and history an injustice in omitting the king-size MEZZ. Gold is rich in vulgarities, but on naughty words, he is vague (ill-informed?) and embarrassed. See his sparse and inaccurate definition of a "fruit" and of the suffix "-assed". On sexualia he is weak too. Appelations are quickly spread after they get onto a record label. A warm "jellyroll" is also a WARM VALLEY, CONGAINE, BEEDLE UM BUM, and MOJO. However, to Muddy Waters it seems that a mojo may be a BLACK SNAKE or what Cab called a trilon, and there are two of them in WANG wang Blues. Perhaps Gold is safer in not even trying to clarify Horace Henderson's KITTY ON TOAST, or the implication of BOY IN THE BOAT. Gold mentions a lof of the dances which are named on record labels including the cake and camel walk, but not the LAMBETH or CASTLE. He mentions the big apple, and drag, and walking the dog and the scrontch (according to Waller) which he spells s-c-r-a-u-n-c-h, with some basis for so-doing. But he calls the scrontch a drag or mooch and that hardly seems to describe the bent-knee and wiggled-rump figure I have seen or the tempo that Waller uses. (Does Scrontch derive from "squat" and "hunch"?). He didn't include HUNCH or POSIN', the hesitation figure, and he didn't observe that a SKUFFLE was a 1) generic term for dancing, or 2) when used as a verb, it related to JOBBING with so-so sucess. The TEXAS TOMMY is lacking; and it is omitted that those who dance these jazz dances are HOOFERS. When Billy and Mary Mack's Merrymakers' hoofers criss-crossed each other, the dance was called a TWINE. In addition some jazzical terms are omitted which do not necessarily appear on phonograph records. Although he includes "spades" and "ofays", there are no JIGS or CHARLIES. At least locally, GAGGED signifies playing below par as when "juiced" or "high" or "dragged"; but even when the word is included in LEXICON, juiced is not clearly distinguished from high, and dragged does not clearly state fatigued or bored, as I mean to imply. And if Gold is to include interjections such as "yeah, man" and "oowee", I petition for inclusion in the next edition HOY (from Lambeth Walk), HOTCHA, and maybe SHOOT THE LIKKER TO ME, JOHN-BOY. Some meanings are given for "blast", but to a musician a blast is also a telephone call. I can see why Gold might prefer to leave MAINSTEM to a theatrical lexicographer, despite its being a jazz title; and why he might assign MAINLINER to a junky monographer. But I would be grateful to him if he would confirm or deny my suspicion that BIG APPLE is a transliteration of the older Mexican idion "mazana principal" for the main square of the town or the downtown area. A "face" is more than Gold says, that is, he is less than Gold says; he is an anonymous nobody, a musician of underdeveloped or limited talent. Bechet wouldn't have clled him a MUSICIANER. Only lately Ink Williams explained to me that the C. C. PILL extended the ecstacy and potency of the C. C. (or See See) rider, but Gold doesn't tell you--and I must apologize because I can't--whether the gouge (an overpriced dame) of Armour Avenue whom the rider met on his (be)fo' day(break) CREEP (hence, he was a creep or creeper) was a floogie (flatfooted and/or dual floy'd). This invented the Big Apple "manzana theory." John Ciardi, writing in the 1970s in the SATURDAY REVIEW and in a letter to THE NEW YORK TIMES, added that it was used by jazz musicians of New Orleans around 1910. There never was any evidence--it was all guessing. I have NEW YORK MORNING TELEGRAPH "Big Apple" citations from Tijuana (Mexico) and Santa Anita (California, "the Big Apple of the West"). "Manzana" was not used in those articles. For the record, an earlier "manzana" is this: Title: The big apple : fox trot = La manzana grande / Author(s): Wright, Edythe,; d. 1965. ; (Vocalist - voc); Dorsey, Tommy,; 1905-1956. ; (Performer - prf); Waller, Fats,; 1904-1943. ; (Performer - prf) Corp Author(s): Clambake Seven (Musical group). ; (Performer - prf); Rhythm (Musical group). ; (Performer - prf) Publication: Camden, N.J. :; Victor, Year: 1937, 1936 Description: 1 sound disc :; analog, 78 rpm, mono. ;; 10 in. Language: English Music Type: Multiple forms; Jazz; Dance forms Standard No: Publisher: 25652; Victor SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Jazz -- 1931-1940. Foxtrots. Note(s): Participants: Edythe Wright, vocal, Tommy Dorsey, Clambake Seven (side A) ; Fats Waller, piano, Rhythm (side B)./ Recorded in New York, Aug. 13, 1937 (side A) and June 8, 1936 (side B)--Cf. Jazz records, 1897-1942 / Rust, c1978. Other Titles: Manzana grande.; Fractious fingering.; Dedos resbalosos. Responsibility: Buddy Bernier, Bob Emmerick ; [performed by] Tommy Dorsey & his Clambake Seven. Fractious fingering : fox trot = Dedos resbalosos / Thomas Waller ; [performed by] "Fats" Waller and his Rhythm Material Type: Music (msr); 78 rpm (78s) Document Type: Sound Recording Entry: 19940308 Update: 20020218 Accession No: OCLC: 29927679 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- "NEW YORK" AND "NEW ENGLAND" IN MAPS I went to the NYPL map division (I also went to SIBL to find that my offsite ORGANIC GARDENING books hadn't arrived--three NYPL branches in one day) to check out "New York" and "New England" on maps. It's earlier than the Early English Books Online citations: MANHATTAN IN MAPS 1527-1995 by Paul E. Cohen and Robert T. Augustyn New York: Rizzoli 1997 Pg. 20: THE VELASCO MAP Date Depicted: 1610 Date Drawn: 1610 (...) On the map, versions of Manhattan's present name (_Manahatn_ and _Manhatta_) appear for the first time. (OED has revised its "Manhattan" entry and the first citation is 1816. In the etymology section of the definition, 1625 is cited--ed.) Pg. 44: THE NICOLLS MAP The Towne of New-York Date Depicted: c. 1664-68 Date Drawn: c. 1664-68 Pg. 45: The inset plan in the upper right corner, entitled "The Towne of New-York," is the earliest instance of the use of the new name on a map. (OED revision?--ed.) NEW-ENGLAND IN EARLY PRINTED MAPS 1513 TO 1800 Compiled by Barbara Backus McCorkle Providence: John Carter Brown Library 2001 Pg. 16: Map 614.1 "A Desciption of New England" Observed and described by Captayn John Smith, 1614. From gcohen at UMR.EDU Thu Apr 3 02:24:16 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:24:16 -0600 Subject: Fwd: "jazz" and Irish "teas" Message-ID: This is a footnote to the suggestion advanced a week or so ago on ads-l that "jazz" derives from Irish "teas". The new message is from Jim Rader (of Merriam-Webster) and I now share it with his permission. Gerald Cohen >Organization: Merriam-Webster Inc. >To: gcohen at umr.edu >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:51:37 -0500 >Subject: "Jazz" and "teas" >Reply-to: jrader at Merriam-Webster.com > >Someone in the office directed me to a recent exchange on on >ADS-L. (I dropped off a few years ago but I occasionally check the >archives.) The idea that is borrowed from Irish is not >very plausible. On a simple phonetic basis there's a mismatch >because both consonants in are voiceless in all dialects of Irish. >Slender is an affricate from about Mayo north, and in Scottish >Gaelic, but from Connemara south to Munster it's a palatalized [t], very >similar to Russian soft , but maybe with less fricative release. ... From gcohen at UMR.EDU Thu Apr 3 02:27:19 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:27:19 -0600 Subject: Fwd (from Norm Cohen):"jazz" Message-ID: Norm Cohen (no relation) recently sent me a message about "jazz", and with his permission I present it below my signoff. It pertains to the early attestations of "jazz" in a musical sense. OED gives 1917 as the earliest attestation of "jazz" in a musical sense; (set aside the 1909 example as an error). Meanwhile, Irving Lewis Allen, _The City In Slang_, 1993, p.71, citing Gunther Schuller's 1968 _Early Jazz..._, says: "In 1915 jazz was introduced to New Yorkers in a vaudeville theater by Freddie Keppard's Creole Band, but few took notice." Gerald Cohen >From: "Norm Cohen" >To: "Cohen, Gerald" >Subject: "jazz" >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:32:52 -0800 > >Gerald: >I came across the following reference to "jass," which while not earth >shaking provides more evidence for its use in 1916. >"According to the _Chicago Defender_, in October 1916 African American >entertainer Estelle Harris was performing Spencer Williams's tune >"Sihim-Me-Sha-Wabble" with her "jass [sic] singers and dancers" at the South >Side's Grand Theater, located just across the street from the Elite No. 1." >footnote reference: Chicago Defender, Sept. 30, 1916, and Oct. 14, 1916. >This from an article by Rebecca A. Bryant, "Shaking Things Up: Popularizing >the Shimmy in America," in American Music v. 20 no. 2 (Summer 2002),168-187. >The above quote is on p 170. The "sic" is hers. >Norm From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Thu Apr 3 02:40:39 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:40:39 -0500 Subject: Changes to Unicode Message-ID: It's a couple days late, but I thought everyone might appreciate this April 1 working group document from the International Organization for Standardization recommending the inclusion of new characters into the Unicode set: http://www.evertype.com/standards/iso10646/pdf/n258a-heartdot.pdf It's a smallish PDF file. -- Grant Barrett Editor, World New York http://www.worldnewyork.org/ gbarrett at worldnewyork.org From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 03:19:41 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:19:41 -0500 Subject: Food Stylist (1936, 1938); OT: Food in Film Message-ID: FOOD STYLIST Not in OED. From EMMY MAGAZINE, March/April 1987, pages 48-51: Pg. 48: She and the two hundred or so people in her business, most of whom are women, earn up to five hundred dollars per day creating the perfect, colorful, mouthwatering food that appears in television food commercials and, occasionally, movies nationwide. Pg. 48: The advertisers' concern for accuracy grew out of the landmark 1970 court case in which the Federal Trade Commission ruled a Campbell's Soup commercial was deceptive because it used marbles at the bottoms of soup bowls to make the vegetables protrude above the soup. (Pg. 49--ed.) The stylist must sign a non-disclosure form to protect the secrecy of the product ingredients and another form stating that she has complied with FTC rules. Pg. 49: Food styling is a lucrative business in Hollywood, Chicago, and other cities where local commercials are made, and jobs are plentiful. New York remains the biggest styling market in the United States because of the large number of commercials made there. There are many NEW YORK TIMES classified hits. Most are from the 1960s, but these two are the earliest: 2 August 1936, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. RE15, col. 8: FOOD STYLIST for large New York hotel; must have imagination, be able to express food terms in pure English, write attractive bills of fare and understand food merchandizing; give experience, age, &c. in first letter. 4 September 1938, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 132, col. 3: FOOD STYLIST, knowledge of food, presentation, menus, display and merchandizing novel and practical ideas, to increase food sales; also to assist chef in daily preparation of menus; large patronage; give all details in first letter as to previous experience, age, education and salary. The following are some "food stylist" titles from OCLC WorldCat: Odd jobs / Author: Weiss, Ellen, 1949-; Ross, Damon, Publication: New York : Aladdin Paperbacks, 2000 Document: English : Book : Elementary and junior high school Professional careers in the food industry Author: Colter, Kieth. Publication: Bloomington, Ill. : Meridian Education Corp., 1999 Document: English : Visual Material : Videorecording : VHS tape Recipe treasury / recipes compiled by Miriam B. Loo ; book designer, Annetta Wheat ; photographer, Ron Oatney ; food stylist, Marjorie Read. Author: Loo, Miriam B. Publication: Colorado Springs, Colo. : Current Inc., 1982 Document: English : Book Cool careers without college for people who love food / Author: Hinton, Kerry. Publication: New York : Rosen Pub. Group, 2002 Document: English : Book : Juvenile audience --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: FOOD IN FILM "Yes! Yes! Oh, yes! Yes! Oh God! Yes! Yes! Yes! YES! YES! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!" --Meg Ryan in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989) I really should take my first dates to Katz's Deli, but they never do look like Meg Ryan. The NYPL's performing arts library's clipping files aren't great for food. A clipping from September 1981 of the Denver Center Cinema's Great International Food Film Festival contained these films: WHO IS KILLING THE GREAT CHEFS OF EUROPE?, SOYLENT GREEN, GARLIC IS AS GOOD AS TEN MOTHERS, THE ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES (filmed version of Andrew Smith's books), THE LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, MILDRED PIERCE, FATSO, TOM JONES, WILLY WONKA AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY, THE DISCREET CHARM OF THE BOURGEOISIE, WHISKEY GALORE, WHAT'S UP TIGER LILY?, and THE GOOD EARTH. An article on food documentaries was in the NEW YORK TIMES, 18 March 1992, pg. C8. This amusing quotation is from M. F. K.: A DOCUMENTARY ON THE LIFE OF MARY FRANCES KENNEDY FISHER: "Even in the worst book," she says, waving a microphone, "there is one jewel, the jewel in a toad's head. I just don't have the time anymore to look for it. All these idea books. The story of bread or the story of potatoes. Some editor will say, 'Well, write about peanuts.' And some poor soul does." These titles are from OCLC WorldCat: MD TOWSON UNIV TSC (Only library--ed.) Title: Dining in the dark : a cultural analysis of food in American film / Author(s): Newberg, Michael Robert. Year: 1997 Description: vi, 136 leaves : ill. ; 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. Food habits. Mass media and culture. Note(s): Vita./ Includes bibliographical references (leaves 132-136)./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.A.) - Towson State University, 1997. Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F6 Responsibility: by Michael Robert Newberg. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19970714 Update: 19970714 Accession No: OCLC: 37290651 Database: WorldCat DC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS DLC (Only library so far--ed.) Title: Food in film : a culinary performance of communication / Author(s): Ferry, Jane, 1941- Publication: New York : Routledge, Projected Date: 0307 Year: 2003 Description: p. cm. Language: English Series: American popular history & culture; Variation: American popular history and culture (Routledge (Firm)) Standard No: ISBN: 0415945836 (alk. paper); LCCN: 2003-46530 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. Note(s): Includes bibliographical references and index. Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F65; Dewey: 791.43/655 Responsibility: Jane F. Ferry. Document Type: Book Entry: 20030317 Update: 20030327 Accession No: OCLC: 51931190 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 03:41:21 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:41:21 -0500 Subject: Film Scripts Online and more databases Message-ID: http://www.alexanderstreetpress.com/product.sheet.overview.htm Columbia University also has the BLACK DRAMA database. The NYPL has Harlem's Schomburg Center and Lincoln Center's Performing Arts Library, but neither has BLACK DRAMA so far. Alexander Street Press (web address above) has some interesting databases, but I don't know when/if the local libraries will get them. AMERICAN FILM SCRIPTS ONLINE should be a sure bet for the NYPL's performing arts library, but no one there knows anything. ASIAN AMERICAN DRAMA should be a sure bet for Columbia University, which has a school of Asian studies. It might have some Chinese and Japanese food terms. NORTH AMERICAN IMMIGRANT LETTERS, DIARIES, AND ORAL HISTORIES should be a sure bet for all three of the NYPL, NYU, and Columbia. It might have Italian food terms such as "pizza" and Jewish food such as "bagel." EARLY ENCOUNTERS IN NORTH AMERICA covers America to 1850. Again, all three libraries should get this. I'll be looking for "johnnycake" and "doughnut" and more. Perhaps George Thompson knows NYU's plans for these databases? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 04:35:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:35:49 -0500 Subject: Salad Spinner (1973) Message-ID: SALAD SPINNER Not an OED entry, but there is one citation from 1985. There are no trademarks for the thing. It was heavily advertised in the NEW YORK TIMES. 5 August 1973, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 37 ad: SALAD SPINNER. Crisper salads start here. Our French salad spinner spins dry your greens in seconds for better tasting salads. (...) HOFFRITZ has it --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: FOOD IN FILM I forgot to mention that I read through REEL MEALS, SET MEALS: FOOD IN FILM AND THEATRE (Sydney: Currency Press, 1999) by Gaye Poole. It's not great, and it's Australian and not American. The best thing was this quotation to start a chapter: Pg. 167: "There is no love in this Veal Marengo." _Wallflowering_ From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 05:35:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:35:38 -0500 Subject: Santa Claus melon & Christmas melon (1923) Message-ID: They're the same melon. Neither is in OED. 19 December 1911, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 20: _Stockholders Expected Such a Christmas Melon Last Year, Too, and Were Disappointed_. ("Melon" here is financial slang. I've got to do that dictionary, too--ed.) 23 May 1923, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 5 ad for Knickerbocker Ice Company: At Christmas comes the luscious Santa Claus melon. 19 December 1923, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 4 ad for Knickerbocker Ice Company: The Santa Claus Melon--These long, luscious Christmas melons have come all the way from South Africa to grace the Holiday table. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 05:58:52 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:58:52 -0500 Subject: Gravy Boat (1838, 1852, 1853, 1854) Message-ID: Those boat-shaped things used to pour gravy. Perhaps useful for the slang term "gravy train." OED's first citation is 1895, from the Montgomery Ward Catalogue. OED has 1747 for "sauce boat." (MAKING OF AMERICA--MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Gilman, Caroline Howard, 1794-1888. Title: Recollections of a southern matron. By Caroline Gilman. Publication date: 1838. (Pg. 350: ...one of the waiters, with a zeal worthy of a better course, jostled by another, who was reaching above my shoulder to deposit a gravy-boat, and knocked it over.) (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) 1. Gurney, Eliza Paul Kirkbride. "Letter from Eliza Paul Gurney to Hannah B. Mott, 1852" [Page 226 | Paragraph | Section | Document] the midnight watches, remembering what he said about cherishing our scruples and attending to them, and thus having more laid upon us, I endeavored to search and see whether there was anything in my own habitation that gave me uneasiness. The result of my cogitations is, I have ordered two silver gravy-boats and a silver dish to be put out of the way, and not to be forthcoming again. They were placed on the table without my direction, and I felt a little uneasy with it at the time, but I was beginning to get accustomed to seeing them there, and very likely the "scruple" would not have been 2. Koren, Else Elisabeth Hysing. "Diary of Else Elisabeth Koren, November, 1853" [Page 19 | Paragraph | Section | Document] This was not a pleasant day, especially because it was so disagreeable in the saloon-- foul air. Stormy weather continued yesterday, though it was a little better after noon For a few minutes the ship would be quite still, then it would lurch. The noon meal was fairly peaceful; I think only the gravy boat overturned. We sat on deck for a while yesterday. nevertheless, and saw a ship pass us; it is cheerful to see a sailing vessel once more. But we were driven below by a sea which struck us head on, and as there are not many places that are comfortable in so strong a wind, we Results Bibliography Gurney, Eliza Paul Kirkbride, 1801-1881, Letter from Eliza Paul Gurney to Hannah B. Mott, 1852, in Memoir and Correspondence of Eliza P. Gurney. Mott, Richard F. ed.. Philadelphia, PA: J.B. Lippincott & Co., 1884, pp. 377. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [1852] S139-D119 Koren, Else Elisabeth Hysing, 1832-1918, Diary of Else Elisabeth Koren, November, 1853, in The Diary of Elisabeth Koren 1853-1855. Nelson, David T.. Northfield, MN: Norwegian-American Historical Association, 1955, pp. 381. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [11-1-1853] S288-D003 (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) June, 1854 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XLVIII Page 569 COSTLY CHINA. HAVING seen much of primitive districts ourselves, where "china" is known as crockery, and dinner sets are "dishes," we can tell how incredible it will seem to some of our more remote readers, when we tell them there is a single set in our city now on sale, at the price of two thousand dollars. The cost of a small farm swallowed up in one set of dinner dishes, liable to breakage, too more liable than less precious ware. We quite agree with a favorite handmaid, to whom the advertisement was read " "La, ma'am, I shouldn't like to have the washin' and handlin' of 'em." Imagine the ease with which the possessor of this treasure would preside over his table, with his property at the mercy of careless or hurried waiting-men; his most elegant courtesies cut short by the imminent danger of a soup-tureen, valued at fifty dollars; the point of his choicest bon mot lost by the capsizing of a << gravy-boat>> . Better a dinner of herbs, from white stone ware, so far as equanimity is concerned. April, 1860 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LX Page 364 COOKING OF MEATS, ETC. BEEF A LA MODE. Round of beef is best for this purpose. With a sharp knife make incisions in the meat about an inch apart; make a dressing of butter, onion, and bread-crumbs, in the proportion of a pint of crumbs, one small onion finely chopped, and an ounce of butter, with pepper and salt to the taste; fill the incisions with this dressing; put the meat into a pot, with as little water as will suffice to cover it; cover it tightly down, and let it simmer for six or eight hours; when the meat is done, dish it up, and thicken the gravy with a little flour; put the meat in again, let it boil up once, and then serve it. VEAL POT-PIE. Cut up a portion of the best part of the neck of veal, wash, and season it with pepper and salt; line the sides of the pot with paste, put on the veal, with some pieces of paste rolled out and cut into squares, cut up some pieces of butter rolled in flour and add to it, pour in as much water as will cover it, and lay a sheet of paste on the top, leaving an opening in the centre; put the lid on the pot, and put it over a moderate fire; let it cook slowly till the meat is done; place the soft crust on a dish, then put the meat over it, and on the top lay the harder crust, with the brown side up; serve the gravy in a boat. To have the crust of a pot-pie brown, set the pot before the fire, and turn it frequently. ROAST LEG OP LAMB. Make deep incisions round the bone and in the flesh; prepare a dressing of bread-crumbs, salt, pepper, sweet marjoram, or savory, and as much butter as will make the crumbs adhere together; fill all the incisions with the dressing; season the meat with salt and pepper; roast it before a clear fire, and, when nearly done, dredge flour over, and baste it with the gravy; skim the fat off the gravy, and add a little flour mixed with water; let it boil once, and serve it in a << gravy-boat>> . From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 06:19:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:19:11 -0500 Subject: Minceur (Sept. 1975) Message-ID: The revised OED has "minceur" from the 29 October 1975 NEW YORK TIMES. As I showed earlier today with "manzana," you gotta re-check everything. A Practitioner of the New Cuisine Is Still Master of the Old; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 29, 1975; pg. 64, 1 pgs Recipes of a Master Chef For New Cuisine and Old; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 29, 1975; pg. 66, 1 pgs Cooking in the New French Style--and Cutting Down the Calories; New Style Recipes (cont'd); By CRAIG CLAIBORNE Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 1, 1975; pg. 50, 2 pgs The New French Food Revolution? Julia Child Says, 'Humph'; By JOHN KIFNER Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 5, 1975; pg. 12, 1 pgs The most radical and esthetic of the group--the Robespierre of the Roux--is Michel Guerard, who, in battling his own bulges, developed a striking departure he calls "La Cuisine Minceur," an almost diatetic style in which traditional sauces are abandoned, foods are cooked quickly in their own moisture, served with a julienne or puree of the vegetables in which they are cooked and wild herbs are emphasized. Mrs. Child expressed some doubts. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 06:50:57 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:50:57 -0500 Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) Message-ID: Vegetarians eat satan? Not in OED or Merriam-Webster. Over 17,000 Google hits. 30 November 1986, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 697: (Couldn't get full text for this, just an article summary without the word--ed.) Here are WorldCat titles: 1. Cooking with seitan : the complete vegetarian "wheat-meat" cookbook / Author: Jacobs, Barbara.; Jacobs, Leonard. Publication: Garden City Park, N.Y. : Avery Pub. Group, 1994 Document: English : Book 2. Cooking with seitan : delicious natural foods from whole grains / Author: Jacobs, Barbara.; Jacobs, Leonard. Publication: Tokyo ; New York : Japan Publications, 1987 Document: English : Book 3. Wheat gluten and seitan : bibliography and sourcebook, A.D. 535 to 1993 : detailed information on 462 published documents (extensively annotated bibliography), 363 commercial gluten and seitan products, 208 original interviews (many full text) and overviews, 104 unpublished archival documents / Author: Shurtleff, William, 1941-; Aoyagi, Akiko. Publication: Lafayette, CA : Soyfoods Center, 1994 Document: English : Book 4. Natural weight loss : the complete guide / Author: Harrison, Lewis. Publication: Naperville, Ill. : Sourcebooks, 2002 There's one trademark record: Word Mark SEITAN QUICK MIX Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 029. US 046. G & S: Wheat based meat substitute. FIRST USE: 19990301. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19990315 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 78069368 Filing Date June 15, 2001 Owner (APPLICANT) Dixie USA Inc. CORPORATION TEXAS 15555 FM 2920 Tomball TEXAS 77375 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date March 5, 2002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:10:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:10:28 -0500 Subject: Sheet Cake (1944) Message-ID: SEITAN--That date on the last post should have been changed to 1986-87, not 1990. The devil made me do it. --------------------------------------------------------------- SHEET CAKE Sheet cake? People eat sheet cake? What's it made out of? Is it any better than a cow pie or a meadow muffin? For various reasons, you don't see the name around much anymore. However, it's in this food dictionary I'm reading. The NEW YORK TIMES has 54 hits. 20 February 1944, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM27 ad for Presto Self Rising Cake Flour: ...sheet cake pan... 20 February 1945, NE YORK TIMES, pg. 16: ...seven pans of sheet cake for the hungry crew of an LST. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:24:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:24:44 -0500 Subject: Shot glass (1947) Message-ID: Shot glass? Who wants a "shot" glass? Give me a glass that isn't shot! Probably the same people eat seitan and sheet cake! OED has "shot glass" from 1955, when it was coined by playwright Arthur Miller. 10 April 1947, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 27: On the ground that it was badly drawn, the Governor vetoed a bill by Assemblyman Wilson C. Van Duzar to require that "jiggers" or "shot glasses" used to measure liquor at bars have a minimum capacity of one fluid ounce or multiples of one-half ounce if in excess of one ounce. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:43:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:43:00 -0500 Subject: Squaw candy (1943) Message-ID: The latest volume of DARE stops at "SK." What's coming up for "squaw candy"? I didn't see it last year in my trip to Alaska. Many people--those who don't read THE STRAIGHT DOPE--believe that "squaw"=vagina. So "squaw candy" is out. However, here it is on page 573 of the FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION. The NEW YORK TIMES is probably way off on this Alaskan term, but it's a start. 29 July 1943, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 15: "Smokehouses are getting the G. I. brush treatment this week," says the Alaskan fishing editor, "in preparation for the main run of salmon, which will then be cured into what the Aleuts call 'squaw candy.' It is a cross between pemmican, dead fish and a Virginia ham. A little goes a long way" and no doubt will be omitted from fishing recipes when the boys get back home from the fort. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:55:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:55:43 -0500 Subject: Snow pea (1943) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster have 1949 for "snow pea." These three (Chinese snow peas) are from the NEW YORK TIMES: 1. Adding the Chinese Touch; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 13, 1949; pg. SM36, 2 pgs 2. Foreign' Dishes; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 14, 1943; pg. SM20, 1 pgs 3. RICH PEAS AND BEANS; Chinese Varieties Which May Be Grown Here are Substitutes for Meat ; By ROBERTA MA; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 27, 1943; pg. X17, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 08:40:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:40:15 -0500 Subject: Tamari (1921, 1971) Message-ID: "Tamari" will be the last one for tonight. OED has 1977; Merriam-Webster has 1965...OK, so Jesse requested "teriyaki sauce." Can't I wait for the LOS ANGELES TIMES to check these in the Japanese-American community there? From JSTOR: Aspergillus flavus, A. oryzae, and Associated Species Charles Thom; Margaret B. Church American Journal of Botany, Vol. 8, No. 2. (Feb., 1921), pp. 103-126. Pg. 103: Cultures of fermented food products of the Orient made from rice, other cereals, and soy beans show a number of characteristic types of Aspergillus. (...) These organisms are recorded under the names A. _flavus_ Link, A. _oryzae_ Ahlb., A. _wentii_ Wehmer, and A. _tamari_ Kita. 2 December 1971, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 60: TAMARI DRESSING (...) Note: Tamari soy sauce is available at health food stores and Japanese groceries, as is soy oil. From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Thu Apr 3 09:27:24 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:27:24 +0100 Subject: Manzana (January 1966); "New York" & "New England" in maps In-Reply-To: <3D5B171F.06608F54.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: Barry Popik wrote: > But I would be grateful to him if he would confirm or deny my > suspicion that BIG APPLE is a transliteration of the older Mexican > idion "mazana principal" for the main square of the town or the > downtown area. ... > This invented the Big Apple "manzana theory." John Ciardi, > writing in the 1970s in the SATURDAY REVIEW and in a letter to THE > NEW YORK TIMES, added that it was used by jazz musicians of New > Orleans around 1910. There never was any evidence--it was all > guessing. Many thanks, as so often, for clearing up the details of the true citation. It was John Ciardi's note in his "A Browser's Dictionary" that led me to this idea in the first place. However, I'm not at all sure that the idea is as yet entirely ruled out on the basis of the evidence we have. Perhaps Barry or Gerald Cohen could comment further? > I have NEW YORK MORNING TELEGRAPH "Big Apple" citations from > Tijuana (Mexico) and Santa Anita (California, "the Big Apple of the > West"). "Manzana" was not used in those articles. But would a Spanish phrase appear untranslated in English-language articles of the period? Can we rule out a route of transmission of a calque into English at that time? It has been said that Spanish was not well known in New Orleans at this period, but it is not hard to imagine a loan translation appearing elsewhere and being transmitted, for example, among stablehands at racetracks. One obvious immediate approach is to determine whether the Spanish "manzana" or "manzana principal" in the sense of something highly desirable existed around 1910 - can anyone comment on this? If we find that "manzana principal" actually travelled from English into Spanish, of course, the whole theory falls down. -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From imran at BITS.BRIS.AC.UK Thu Apr 3 11:37:08 2003 From: imran at BITS.BRIS.AC.UK (Imran Ghory) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:37:08 +0100 Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) In-Reply-To: <200304030651.h336pFw18303@listserv.tau.ac.il> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Bapopik at AOL.COM > Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Vegetarians eat satan? > Not in OED or Merriam-Webster. Over 17,000 Google hits. > > > 30 November 1986, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 697: > (Couldn't get full text for this, just an article summary without the word--ed.) A 1984 usenet message spelling it "setan", http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=202%40bpa.UUCP&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain Imran -- http://bits.bris.ac.uk/imran From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Thu Apr 3 12:11:55 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:11:55 -0500 Subject: Google hits in a corpus-like format Message-ID: KwicOnGoogle: http://163.136.182.112/xyz01/ Paul http://www.wordspy.com/ From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Thu Apr 3 15:06:42 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:06:42 -0500 Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives In-Reply-To: <2209664F1C807643B7FA01C8230C0F99434241@col-mailnode03.col.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Matthew, I recall that sort of odd pronunciation that Sagan had, but it didn't occur to me at the time. I'd like to find a tape of him saying "billions and billions". I'd be interested in hearing what you find in Missouri. So far I've found nothing beyond what I included in my first post. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Gordon, Matthew J. Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:45 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Lower Great Plains implosives I think Ladefoged was thinking of Carl Sagan - "billions and billions" was a catch phrase of Sagan impressionists. I'm very intrigued by Herb's observations. I hadn't noticed implosives in Missouri, but then I mainly listen to vowels. I wonder if Alice or someone else could tell us whether there are acoustic cues for implosives that would be recognizable in a spectrogram. -----Original Message----- From: Herbert Stahlke [mailto:hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET] Sent: Mon 3/31/2003 9:02 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Cc: Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives A few years ago I posted a brief comment on implosives that I've heard from speakers from the Lower Great Plains, a label I've made up for a region running from Oklahoma and northern Texas up to southern Nebraska and east into Missouri and Arkansas. This is not by way of defining an isogloss, because I haven't surveyed the area and I don't know how far the phenomenon extends. I'm basing it on where the speakers I've heard are from. The phenomenon is that initial voiced stops in stressed syllables become implosives. This appears not to happen in consonant+liquid clusters, and it doesn't happen finally or in unstressed syllables. Ladefoged mentions that implosives sometimes occur in English for emphasis and gives the example "billions and billions" where both /b/ are imploded. I haven't observed this myself, and it doesn't sound as if he and I are referring to the same phenomenon. However, this is the only published reference I've seen to implosives in English. I've also found a reference by Fred Cummins http://cspeech.ucd.ie/~fred/courses/phonetics/airstream1.html to an implosive /b/ that he associates impressionistically with a Texas accent. Does anyone know of other published or www discussions of implosives in American English (I don't know if Ladefoged's reference is American)? Herb From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Thu Apr 3 16:07:24 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:07:24 -0500 Subject: Fwd (from Norm Cohen):"jazz" Message-ID: Keppard/Kepperd/Kepard/Keperd and several other possible misspellings don't show up in the Historical NYTimes from the 1910s. "Elaine & Her Creole Band" played at an All-Star Theatrical Benefit at the Shubert Theater, W44th, on May 21, 1916, advertized (in small type) on May 19 & 21. I have friends at the Shubert ARchive & will ask them whether they have any information of Elaine, esp. whether her Creole Band played jazz or whether Keppard ever played the Shubert chain, calling his music jazz. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Cohen Date: Wednesday, April 2, 2003 9:27 pm Subject: Fwd (from Norm Cohen):"jazz" > Norm Cohen (no relation) recently sent me a message about "jazz", > and with his permission I present it below my signoff. It pertains > to the early attestations of "jazz" in a musical sense. > > OED gives 1917 as the earliest attestation of "jazz" in a musical > sense; (set aside the 1909 example as an error). Meanwhile, Irving > Lewis Allen, _The City In Slang_, 1993, p.71, citing Gunther > Schuller's 1968 _Early Jazz..._, says: "In 1915 jazz was introduced > to New Yorkers in a vaudeville theater by Freddie Keppard's Creole > Band, but few took notice." > > Gerald Cohen > > > >From: "Norm Cohen" > >To: "Cohen, Gerald" > >Subject: "jazz" > >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:32:52 -0800 > > > >Gerald: > >I came across the following reference to "jass," which while not > earth>shaking provides more evidence for its use in 1916. > >"According to the _Chicago Defender_, in October 1916 African > American>entertainer Estelle Harris was performing Spencer > Williams's tune > >"Sihim-Me-Sha-Wabble" with her "jass [sic] singers and dancers" > at the South > >Side's Grand Theater, located just across the street from the > Elite No. 1." > >footnote reference: Chicago Defender, Sept. 30, 1916, and Oct. > 14, 1916. > >This from an article by Rebecca A. Bryant, "Shaking Things Up: > Popularizing>the Shimmy in America," in American Music v. 20 no. 2 > (Summer 2002),168-187. > >The above quote is on p 170. The "sic" is hers. > >Norm > From orinkh at CARR.ORG Thu Apr 3 18:03:55 2003 From: orinkh at CARR.ORG (Orin Hargraves) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:03:55 -0500 Subject: differ vt? In-Reply-To: <200304031211.h33CBxS20052@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: NPR correspondent Don Gonyea said in a newscast today that the President, addressing troops at camp Lejune, "did not really differ the message from what we've been hearing him say." Did Mr. Gonyea mean to say "vary" or has "differ" got a new job that not everyone knows about? --Orin Hargraves From jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST Thu Apr 3 18:10:01 2003 From: jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST (Jan Ivarsson TransEdit) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:10:01 +0200 Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" Message-ID: A translator colleague asks me about the following scene from "Love plus one" Episode #3.06, Original Airdate 11/9/2000 (JACK is showing WILL his new crush, MATTHEW.) MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? [JACK JUST STARES, SPEECHLESS] Ok, thanks. [MATTHEW TURNS AND WALKS AWAY] JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A SWEATER.] His question: When Will says "Does this come in a boot?", there is a roar of laughter from the audience. Why? What does it mean exactly? Jan Ivarsson, TransEdit Translator, Subtitler jan.ivarsson at transedit.st http://www.transedit.st From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 3 18:41:03 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:41:03 -0800 Subject: BE/AE Agreement Message-ID: Not long ago there was a brief discussion on this list of the difference between British and American English in the treatment of formally singular nouns that represent collective entities. In the course of this, I made the following observation: "On a trip through Heathrow Airport many years ago I was struck by an ad for a construction firm. The firm's name was Billy something--Barnham? Something like that. The ad said: "Billy Barnham built this terminal. Billy Barnham build everywhere." I've never run across a variety of AE where this would be acceptable." Jesse Scheidlower (who had started the thread), subsequently noted: "It's a general feature of British English that various kinds of group nouns tend to take plural concord, e.g. "British Telecom are profitable this quarter", "Manchester United have won the FA cup" [the frequency of this sort of construction in World Cup coverage, mentioned by another posted, is surely due to the reporters' being British in the examples in question], "The government are divided about how to...", etc." I don't think anyone challenged the last sentence in my post, but I recently ran across a quote that does. An article about the Pennsylvania Railroad's crack streamliner The Broadway Limited in the magazine Classic Trains quotes a 1953 written statement to employees by PRR Executive Vice President James Symes: "I happen to know from authentic sources that the New York Central are going 'all out' in attempting to re-establish the Twentieth Century Limited to its former position in the New York to Chicago Service" (Joe Welsh, The Broadway's best years," Classic Trains, Winter 2002, pp. 33-34). In a quick search for a couple of examples of equivalent British usage, I looked at the BBC's web site and discovered to my astonishment that the usage I noticed at Heathrow Airport 20 or more years ago (which, it now appears, was also the usage of at least some Americans as late as 1953) has been abandoned, at least by the BBC. On the web site today, the singular noun-plural verb usage pops up immediately in several headlines involving national sports teams: Pakistan total 278-7 in their Sharjah Cup match against Zimbabwe Fiji play down virus fear But businesses (and political groupings) now appear to have "gone singular," viz.: Al-Jazeera halts Iraq broadcasts British Airways cuts more flights EU acts on French deficit Previously, according to parallel examples I've seen through the years, these would have been "Al-Jazeera halt," "British Airways cut" and "EU act." Can any of our British list members confirm this development across the Atlantic? Does anybody know of an article treating this subject? Peter Mc. **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 19:09:46 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:09:46 EST Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST writes: > MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? > Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, > gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? > JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. > > WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A > SWEATER.] The only likely interpretation of "Does this come in a boot?" that would make the audience laugh is the straightforwards one, "Can I find a pair of boots in this color and/or pattern?" This interpretation also fits with the rest of the quoted dialogue, which is about trying to find color matches to Matthew's trousers. The humor seems to lie not in the dialogue itself but rather in what the sweater looks like---to get a big laugh the sweater will have to have colors or a pattern that is quite implausible to find in pair of boots. A speaker of British English might interpret "in a boot" to mean "in the boot of a car" but I can't see how that would be funny. - Jim Landau PS. Am I imagining things, or did you find a television program about a homosexual menage a trois? From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 19:13:05 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:13:05 EST Subject: differ vt? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:05:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, orinkh at CARR.ORG writes: > NPR correspondent Don Gonyea said in a newscast today that the President, > addressing troops at camp Lejune, "did not really differ the message from > what we've been hearing him say." Did Mr. Gonyea mean to say "vary" or has > "differ" got a new job that not everyone knows about? He meant to say "the message did not really differ..." It turns out that Mr. Bush's malapropisms really are contagious. As if the press did not have enough to worry about.... - Jim Landau From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Thu Apr 3 19:41:20 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:41:20 -0500 Subject: BE/AE Agreement In-Reply-To: <554145.1049366463@[10.218.201.115]> Message-ID: Perhaps the instances where formerly the collective nouns representing companies, governments, &c., were thought of as aggregates of individuals, they are now seen more as monoliths, represented often by logos or icons and so take singular verb forms. On the other hand, sports teams retain a strong sense of comprising individual athletes, often stars, so the plural verbs still seem appropriate. A. Murie (caution: do not attempt to parse that 1st sentence.) ~~~~~~~~~ Peter's original message: >Not long ago there was a brief discussion on this list of the difference between British and American English in the treatment of formally singular nouns that represent collective entities. In the course of this, I made the following observation: "On a trip through Heathrow Airport many years ago I was struck by an ad for a construction firm. The firm's name was Billy something--Barnham? Something like that. The ad said: "Billy Barnham built this terminal. Billy Barnham build everywhere." I've never run across a variety of AE where this would be acceptable." Jesse Scheidlower (who had started the thread), subsequently noted: "It's a general feature of British English that various kinds of group nouns tend to take plural concord, e.g. "British Telecom are profitable this quarter", "Manchester United have won the FA cup" [the frequency of this sort of construction in World Cup coverage, mentioned by another posted, is surely due to the reporters' being British in the examples in question], "The government are divided about how to...", etc." I don't think anyone challenged the last sentence in my post, but I recently ran across a quote that does. An article about the Pennsylvania Railroad's crack streamliner The Broadway Limited in the magazine Classic Trains quotes a 1953 written statement to employees by PRR Executive Vice President James Symes: "I happen to know from authentic sources that the New York Central are going 'all out' in attempting to re-establish the Twentieth Century Limited to its former position in the New York to Chicago Service" (Joe Welsh, The Broadway's best years," Classic Trains, Winter 2002, pp. 33-34). In a quick search for a couple of examples of equivalent British usage, I looked at the BBC's web site and discovered to my astonishment that the usage I noticed at Heathrow Airport 20 or more years ago (which, it now appears, was also the usage of at least some Americans as late as 1953) has been abandoned, at least by the BBC. On the web site today, the singular noun-plural verb usage pops up immediately in several headlines involving national sports teams: Pakistan total 278-7 in their Sharjah Cup match against Zimbabwe Fiji play down virus fear But businesses (and political groupings) now appear to have "gone singular," viz.: Al-Jazeera halts Iraq broadcasts British Airways cuts more flights EU acts on French deficit Previously, according to parallel examples I've seen through the years, these would have been "Al-Jazeera halt," "British Airways cut" and "EU act." Can any of our British list members confirm this development across the Atlantic? Does anybody know of an article treating this subject?< A&M Murie N. Bangor NY sagehen at westelcom.com From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 3 19:55:44 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:55:44 -0500 Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" In-Reply-To: <1ef.5dc12f4.2bbde0fa@aol.com> Message-ID: At 2:09 PM -0500 4/3/03, James A. Landau wrote: >In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, >jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST writes: > >> MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? >> Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, >> gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? >> JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. >> >> WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A >> SWEATER.] > >The only likely interpretation of "Does this come in a boot?" that would make >the audience laugh is the straightforwards one, "Can I find a pair of boots >in this color and/or pattern?" This interpretation also fits with the rest >of the quoted dialogue, which is about trying to find color matches to >Matthew's trousers. > >The humor seems to lie not in the dialogue itself Well, it's partly the interesting use of what Geoff Nunberg calls "deferred reference", the fact that you can hold up a sweater and say "this" and, in the context, refer to the sweater but (only) to one of its salient properties, here its color. Nunberg has examples like holding up a copy of the Times and saying "Murdoch is trying to buy this" or pointing to the headquarters of IBM and saying "That just fell 2 5/8", meaning IBM's stock. I'm not sure the humor comes from the color of the sweater but from the attenuated nature of this particular instance of deferred reference. >but rather in what the >sweater looks like---to get a big laugh the sweater will have to have colors >or a pattern that is quite implausible to find in pair of boots. > >A speaker of British English might interpret "in a boot" to mean "in the boot >of a car" but I can't see how that would be funny. > > - Jim Landau > >PS. Am I imagining things, or did you find a television program about a >homosexual menage a trois? Not exactly. "Will & Grace", which is the original name of the show in question ("Love plus one" must be its trans-Atlantic sobriquet) does not posit any romantic or sexual involvement between Will and Jack, both of whom are gay--they're just friends. I assume from the above context that Jack may have been coming on to Matthew, who is not a regular character on the show. I assume this partly because Jack comes on to most males of the right age and physical appearance. Larry From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 3 22:07:31 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:07:31 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966); "New York" & "New England" in maps In-Reply-To: <3E8C0C8C.31197.8C23F@localhost> Message-ID: A few tangential remarks and questions. Pardon my ignorance of Spanish. Why is a [city] block called "manzana" in Spanish? Is it really named after a fruit, or is it coincidental? ["Manzana" = "apple" is apparently from earlier "mazana" < Latin "[mala] Matiana" or so, named after a proper noun.] Why would "manzana principal" be rendered "big apple" rather than "main apple" or whatever? Modern Spanish expresses "The Big Apple" as "La Gran Manzana" AFAIK. If English "big apple" = "downtown" existed and was adopted into Spanish in 1910 or whenever, I would expect to see alternative forms like this, and/or "main/first/prime apple" in English. In Spanish there is the metaphor "manzana de la discordia" which I guess is something like "bone of contention" (maybe we have "apple of discord" in English too?) ... apparently referring to the mythical apple [Paris' prize] which started the Trojan War. In English there is "apple of my eye" for example, and I suppose the idea of an apple as a prize is natural in both languages. -- Doug Wilson From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 22:10:11 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:10:11 EST Subject: BE/AE Agreement Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 2:39:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM writes: > Perhaps the instances where formerly the collective nouns representing > companies, governments, &c., were thought of as aggregates of individuals, > they are now seen more as monoliths, represented often by logos or icons > and so take singular verb forms. On the other hand, sports teams retain a > strong sense of comprising individual athletes, often stars, so the plural > verbs still seem appropriate. > A. Murie > (caution: do not attempt to parse that 1st sentence.) insert "but" before "they are now seen" and insert a comma after "icons" - Jim Landau (who, after reviewing the spec document for a new software package, will cheerfully trade grammar for clarity) From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 22:13:46 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:13:46 EST Subject: Manzana (January 1966) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 5:07:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, douglas at NB.NET writes: > Modern Spanish expresses "The Big Apple" as "La Gran > Manzana" AFAIK. "Big apple" would be "manzana grande". "gran manzana" is something close to "great apple". Don't feel bad. The "Grand Canyon" in Arizona is not so named for being grand; it is a mis-translation of Spanish "Gran Can~on". - Jim Landau From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 3 23:18:13 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:18:13 -0500 Subject: Food Stylist (1936, 1938); OT: Food in Film In-Reply-To: <19B19CD2.0E5A4E8B.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: At 10:19 PM 4/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--------------------------------------------------------------- >OT: FOOD IN FILM > >"Yes! Yes! Oh, yes! Yes! Oh God! Yes! Yes! Yes! YES! >YES! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!" >--Meg Ryan in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989) Hmmm--Molly Bloom said it better in _Ulysses_. But seriously, don't forget "Like Water for Chocolate" and the Danish movie "Babette's Feast"--yummy! > I really should take my first dates to Katz's Deli, but they never do > look like Meg Ryan. > The NYPL's performing arts library's clipping files aren't great for > food. A clipping from September 1981 of the Denver Center Cinema's Great > International Food Film Festival contained these films: WHO IS KILLING > THE GREAT CHEFS OF EUROPE?, SOYLENT GREEN, GARLIC IS AS GOOD AS TEN > MOTHERS, THE ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES (filmed version of Andrew > Smith's books), THE LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, MILDRED PIERCE, FATSO, TOM > JONES, WILLY WONKA AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY, THE DISCREET CHARM OF THE > BOURGEOISIE, WHISKEY GALORE, WHAT'S UP TIGER LILY?, and THE GOOD EARTH. > An article on food documentaries was in the NEW YORK TIMES, 18 March > 1992, pg. C8. This amusing quotation is from M. F. K.: A DOCUMENTARY ON > THE LIFE OF MARY FRANCES KENNEDY FISHER: "Even in the worst book," she > says, waving a microphone, "there is one jewel, the jewel in a toad's > head. I just don't have the time anymore to look for it. All these idea > books. The story of bread or the story of potatoes. Some editor will > say, 'Well, write about peanuts.' And some poor soul does." > These titles are from OCLC WorldCat: > > >MD TOWSON UNIV TSC (Only library--ed.) >Title: Dining in the dark : >a cultural analysis of food in American film / >Author(s): Newberg, Michael Robert. >Year: 1997 >Description: vi, 136 leaves : ill. ; 28 cm. >Language: English > SUBJECT(S) >Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. >Food habits. >Mass media and culture. >Note(s): Vita./ Includes bibliographical references (leaves 132-136)./ >Dissertation: Thesis (M.A.) - Towson State University, 1997. >Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F6 >Responsibility: by Michael Robert Newberg. >Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) >Document Type: Book >Entry: 19970714 >Update: 19970714 >Accession No: OCLC: 37290651 >Database: WorldCat > > >DC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS DLC (Only library so far--ed.) >Title: Food in film : >a culinary performance of communication / >Author(s): Ferry, Jane, 1941- >Publication: New York : Routledge, >Projected Date: 0307 >Year: 2003 >Description: p. cm. >Language: English >Series: American popular history & culture; Variation: American popular >history and culture (Routledge (Firm)) >Standard No: ISBN: 0415945836 (alk. paper); LCCN: 2003-46530 > SUBJECT(S) >Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. >Note(s): Includes bibliographical references and index. >Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F65; Dewey: 791.43/655 >Responsibility: Jane F. Ferry. >Document Type: Book >Entry: 20030317 >Update: 20030327 >Accession No: OCLC: 51931190 >Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 00:48:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:48:07 -0500 Subject: Seitan (1960s); Encyclopedia of Food & Culture (2003) Message-ID: SEITAN COOKING WITH SEITAN: THE COPLETE VEGETARIAN "WHEAT-MEAT" COOKBOOK by Barbara Jacobs and Leonard Jacobs Garden City Park, NY: Avery Publishing group 1994 A better title than BOOZE WITH BEELZEBUB, I suppose. Pg. 5 (A NEWLY DISCOVERED ANCIENT FOOD): Seitan--gluten that has been extracted fro wheat flour and then cooked--coes to the United States from Japan, where it was prepared (Pg. 6--ed.) originally by vegetarian Buddhist monks. It is also known simply as gluten or "wheat meat"; however, we prefer to use the Japanese nae even though technically the word seitan refers to gluten that has been cooked in soy sauce. According to Yuko Okada, president of uso Copany, Ltd., one of the oldest and largest exporters of Japanese natural foods, the word "seitan" was coined in the mid-1960s by acrobiotics teacher George Ohsawa. The word "sei" means _is_ and "tan," which is the first character in the word tanpaku, eans _protein_. So seitan, loosely translated, eans soething like _the right protein substitute_. I didn't have time today, but maybe in a few days I'll look here for seitan: Call # *OSM (Sakurazawa, Y. You are all Sanpaku) Author Ohsawa, Georges, 1893-1966. Title You are all sanpaku, by Sakurazawa Nyoiti. English version by William Dufty. Imprint New Hyde Park, N. Y., University Books [c1965] LOCATION CALL # STATUS Humanities-Asian&ME Div *OSM (Sakurazawa, Y. You are all Sanpaku) Location Humanities-Asian&ME Div Descript 224 p. illus. Note Bibliography, p. 218. Subject Diet. Eye. --------------------------------------------------------------- MANZANA (continued) It's very hard to prove that citations that aren't there were never there. I can never prove even that "hoosier" doesn't come from "whose ear?". Sure, we have a lack of any single historical citation anywhere. But can I prove what those people 170 years ago were thinking? Maybe they just didn't write it down? And so it always goes. The NEW YORK MORNING TELEGRAPH'S Tijuana writer used slang, used "Big Apple," and did not use "manzana." He used some Spanish, amigo. Fitz Gerald called New York "the big apple of racing." The "square block of racing" just doesn't make sense. Hy Schneider also used "Big Apple" in the 1920s on the MORNING TELEGRAPH. Schneider came from El Paso, and I'm sure he knew some Spanish, too. He never used "manzana," either. Once again, the dismal Google numbers: "Big Apple" and "manzana"--213 "Big Apple" and "Ciardi"--48 "Big Apple" and "Popik"--39 It's now six years since I dedicated "Big Apple Corner" after it was signed into law by the mayor. I'm trailing a person who did no original research whatsoever. --------------------------------------------------------------- SCRIBNER LIBRARY OF DAILY LIFE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FOOD & CULTURE Solomon H. Katz. editor in chief William Woys Weaver, associate editor 3 volumes 2003 This book is on the NYPL reserve shelf. I checked it for "seitan," but it didn't help much. It has distinguished writers such as "WWW" and Andrew Smith (who will kill me shortly). It's like any encyclopedia. Some things are nicely written and some things are awful. It's somewhat useful and I learned a few things. The question I have is the purpose of the project. It's too mammoth for any individual to buy and put on a shelf. There are no recipes. The average person is going to use the web, where the information (although not always accurate) is free. So it's aimed for scholars, but scholars already know some of the stuff and aren't going to use it. For example, I'm not going to read what Andrew Smith says here about tomatoes. I have his books on my shelf. That's what Andrew Smith has to say on tomatoes. It's hard to see the use for this, or how it's going to make money. It's "OK." Now for the screaming error: Pg. 217: "HOT DOGS AND NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES." You know what's cited here? J. J. Schnebel's "Who Cooked This Up?" (http://members.cox.net/starview) As Andrew Sullivan would say, here's the money quote: "Schnebel credits the sports cartoonist Thomas Dorgan of the _New York Journal_ for inventing the name 'hot dog.'" HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? Alan Davidson gets it wrong for Oxford (he didn't check with OED). Now this! Why would you quote Schnebel's web site for anything? My stuff (Barry "Popick") is on the web site of the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council. It's on World Wide Words. It's on Snopes.com. It was in SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE. It was in a hot dog book by David Graulich. Our DIALECT NOTES of 1900 would show this is wrong. It's cited in the OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. MERRIAM-WEBSTER gives my 1895 date. You're going to rely on "Who Cooked This Up?" . "Pizza" was introduced to America at Lombardi's at 53 1/3 Spring Street? That's wrong, but the address always changes, too. Now it's 53 1/3? Wasn't it 52 1/2? . "In spite of its (Cuban sandwich--ed.) association with Havana, this sandwich was created in New York and New Jersey." WWW, who wrote this, obviously never saw my work. Not true at all, and based on no citations. . "Philadelphia hoagie (derived from 'hokey-pokey man')..." WWW is an expert on PA foods. How could he say this? Yes, there is one cite that says this and I posted it here, but it's wrong! . 1926 Cobb salad--Andrew Smith probably meant 1936. I'll check it on the LOS ANGELES TIMES as soon as it's available. I haven't read the whole three volumes. Again, it's OK. The "hot dog" thing left me screaming, but overall, it's OK. It's still not that much-needed historical dictionary of food and drink. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 01:34:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:34:38 -0500 Subject: Vegetable Spaghetti (1976); Spaghetti Squash (1976) Message-ID: OED has 1973 for "vegetable spaghetti." OED does not have "spaghetti squash." 1 April 1962, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 26: The flesh of the vegetable spaghetti is a spiral of spaghetti-like pulp that may be served with catsup or old as a salad. 17 October 1976, NEW YORK TIES, pg. 395: Spaghetti squash is not a sacrifice, but an interesting novelty for as long as the vegetable is in season. Here's a book title fro OCLC WorldCat: The vegetable spaghetti cookbook : how to grow & how to cook spaghetti squash / Author: Fell, Derek.; Shaudys, Phyllis. Publication: Washington Crossing, PA : Pine Row Publications, 1982 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 01:55:16 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:55:16 -0500 Subject: Turban Squash (1872) Message-ID: Might as well continue with "squash." OED has 1902 for "turban squash." Search the Full-Text of Harper's Weekly, 1857-1912 72-02-03 Page 110 GREGORY'S SEED CATALOGUE Having been the first to introduce to the public the Hubbard Squash, American Turban Squash, Marble- head Mammoth Cabbage, Mexican Sweet Corn, Phin- ney's Water-Melon, Brown's New Dwarf Marrowfat Pea, Boston Curled Lettuce, and other New and Valuable Vegetables, with the return of another season I am again prepared to supply the public with Vegetable and Flower Seeds of the purest quality. My Annual Catalogue is now ready, and will be sent free to all. It has not only all novelties, but the standard vegetables of the farm and garden (over one hundred which are of my own grow- ing), and a carefully selected list of Flower Seeds. On the cover of my Catalogue will be found copies of let- ters received from farmers and gardeners residing in over thirty different states and territories who have used my seed from one to ten years. I warrant -- 1st, That all money sent shall reach me; 2d, That all seed ordered shall reach the purchaser; 3d, That my seed shall be fresh, and true to name. Catalogues free to all. JAMES J. H. GREGORY , Marblehead, Mass. From self at TOWSE.COM Fri Apr 4 02:10:07 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:10:07 -0800 Subject: Sheet Cake (1944) Message-ID: Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > --------------------------------------------------------------- > SHEET CAKE > > Sheet cake? > People eat sheet cake? What's it made out of? Is it any better than a cow pie > or a meadow muffin? > For various reasons, you don't see the name around much anymore. However, it's > in this food dictionary I'm reading. The NEW YORK TIMES has 54 hits. > > 20 February 1944, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM27 ad for Presto Self Rising Cake Flour: > ...sheet cake pan... > > 20 February 1945, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 16: > ...seven pans of sheet cake for the hungry crew of an LST. "Sheet cake" is still very much found in a bakery setting: maybe the home baker wants to be more creative these days and baking a flat cake is just ... flat. The bundt pan probably had a lot to do with it. Remember when bundt cakes were exotic fare? Bakeries usually sell sheets, 1/2-sheets, 1/4-sheets too. Depending on the bakery, the dimensions of the full-sheet (and, hence, the 1/2, 1/4, &c.) differ. One bakery's 1/2 sheet might be another's 1/3 sheet. Should you ever do some comparative pricing, ask for w/l/h dimensions and calculate $/volume. claims to have created the first ice cream cake roll in 1932, using sheet cake and ice cream. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 02:40:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:40:28 -0500 Subject: Steak Knife (1870, 1892) Message-ID: OED has 1895 for "steak knife," from that immortal MONTGOMERY WARD CATALOGUE. There seems to be a large gap. There is 1870, then several in the 1890s. The BROOKLYN EAGLE has 1894...More "steak" and possibly "butter knife" in a few minutes. 24 September 1892, LIVING AGE (Making of America-Cornell), pg. 791: ...maddened by some remark, he grabbed a long steak knife and made a spring at her;... (Making of America-Cornell) Title: The New York state business directory and gazetteer. Publisher: Publication Date: 1870 City: Syracuse etc. Pages: 1410 page images Subjects: New York (State) -- Directories. Pg. 91 ad: CHAS. D. PUTNAM'S CUTLERY WORKS POTSDAM, N. Y. CUTLERY CARVING KNIVES, STEAK KNIVES, VEGETABLE KNIVES, PARING KNIVES, SHOE KNIVES, FISH KNIVES, SIDING KNIVES, SEGAR KNIVES, PUTTY KNIVES. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 03:03:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:03:00 -0500 Subject: Butter Knife (1839, 1842) Message-ID: OED has 1850 for "butter knife," coined by Charles Dickens in DAVID COPPERFIELD. 13 April 1842, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: SALES ROOM, 14 FULTON STREET. (...) ...ivory handle knives and forks, silver-table, teaspoons, and butter knife. August, 1839 THE LADY'S BOOK Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Volume XIX Page 62 (...) At length the tea-bell rung, and they went down to a long, narrow room, furnished with a double range of cross-legged red-painted tables, covered with dirty cotton cloths; all the other appliances, cups, plates, knives, forks, and spoons, being of the most coarse and common description. The servants (in number not sufficient for one-fourth of the numerous guests) made a disgustingly dirty appearance, and looked like the sort that were to be had cheap. The tea was so devoid of taste and colour that it was impossible to distinguish the green from the black; the bread (being made in the house) was so sour and heavy as to be scarcely eatable; the butter soft, oily, and ill-flavoured; and there were no << butter knives>> . The relishes as they were called, (though few could relish them) comprised some little dishes of warm, tough cucumbers, made amazingly salt; tumblers of hot, purple, overgrown radishes; and small plates of fat gristly chips of black-looking dried beef. Here and there, at great distances apart, sat a saucer containing three or four of those dry, tasteless, choking, and always unpopular compositions, dignified by the name of Federal cakes. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 03:13:54 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:13:54 -0500 Subject: Steak au poivre (1950) Message-ID: OED has Beard and Watt PARIS CUISINE (1953). 9 February 1950 NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 32: French cooking is not necessarily "a sauce on a sauce on a sauce," James Beard insisted the other night. Civet of hare, grilled pig's foot and steak au poivre--"that steak with the coarse salt and freshly ground pepper practically beaten into it"--are Parisian restaurant specialties that exemplify simplicity to this epicure. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 03:57:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:57:49 -0500 Subject: Sun-Dried Tomatoes (1985); Swedish Limpa (1941,1942) Message-ID: "Limpa" is not in the OED. I have to do something for the Swedes on the list. I've been seeing "sun-dried tomatoes" at salad bars and olive bars throughout the city. I'll find earlier dates for both. --------------------------------------------------------------- SUN-DRIED TOMATOES 7 July 1985, NEW YORK TIES, pg. WC17: Recomended dishes: Scottish soked salmon, imported buffalo mozzarella with sun dried tomatoes and fresh basil,... Some WorldCat titles: Cooking with sun-dried tomatoes / Author: Dribin, Lois, 1947-; Marina, Denise, Publication: Tucson, Ariz. : Fisher Books, 1990 Document: English : Book Sun-dried tomatoes! / Author: Chesman, Andrea. Publication: Freedom, Calif. : Crossing Press, 1990 Document: English : Book Sun-dried tomatoes / Author: Brennan, Ethel.; Brennan, Georgeanne, Publication: San Francisco : Chronicle Books, 1995 Document: English : Book Sun-dried tomatoes / Author: Broderick, Orla.; Smith, Sharon. Publication: Menlo Park, Calif. : Sunset Publishing Corp., 1994 Document: English : Book --------------------------------------------------------------- SWEDISH LIMPA 23 July 1941, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 13: Or you might try making a sandwich that is much favored in Sweden--lavish portions of medurst between two well-buttered man-sized pieces of limpa--wholewheat bread with caraway. 23 December 1942, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 16: In the Swedish-American shops of the city the customary holiday specialties of the old country run the gamut from salt herring to saffron cofee cake, from vort limpa (an anise-flavored rye bread) to lutfisk (dried cod or haddock or such). From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 04:44:26 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:44:26 -0500 Subject: Oolong tea (1845) Message-ID: Merriam-Webster has 1850 and OED has 1852 for "oolong." 18 October 1845, NATIONAL POLICE GAZETTE (American Periodical Series) pg. 71 ad: DELICIOUS OOLONG--A most delightful black tea called by the Celestials "Oolong," is sold by the Pekin Tea Copany, 75 Fulton street, at 50 cents per pound, superior to any black tea we have ever bought for double that price. 22 october 1845, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Some of the captions alluded to are "Delicious Oolong,"... (The article refers to ads like the above--ed.) From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 4 04:50:30 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:50:30 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966) In-Reply-To: <1e0.5fb2dd7.2bbe0c1a@aol.com> Message-ID: Naive search results, without explicit exegesis: Google hits: "la manzana grande" ... 52 "la gran manzana" ... 791 "nueva york la manzana grande" ... 0 "nueva york la gran manzana" ... 56 Search for ("la gran manzana" AND "la manzana grande") turns up just one item: <> -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 05:01:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:01:11 -0500 Subject: Waffle Iron (1788) Message-ID: OED has 1794 for "waffle iron." I had to go through several different spellings before I found this. ITEM #74778 April 16, 1788 The Pennsylvania Gazette FOR SALE BY LEONARD JACOBY, At his Store, in Second street, the fifth door above Race street, and next door to the sign of the Black Bear, in Philadelphia, A large assortment of the best kind of Dutch Scythes & German Straw-knives, With suitable WHETSTONES. Also a few << WAFFEL-IRONS>> . Likewise a general assortment of superfine, fine, middling and coarse BOULTING CLOTHS, Suitable for any kind of milling business. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 05:40:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:40:22 -0500 Subject: Water Spinach (1968, 1969, 1984) Message-ID: http://www.bbg.org/gar2/topics/kitchen/2001fa_spinach.html "Water spinach" is not in the OED. The above is from the Brooklyn Botanical Garden. It wasn't reported in New York until the last few years, but the LOS ANGELES TIMES might have it much earlier. (JSTOR database) Developmental Morphology of the Megasporangium and Embryogeny in Ipomoea reptans Poir. and Related Species Samuel C. K. Chan; Charles J. Hillson Botanical Gazette, Vol. 129, No. 2. (Jun., 1968), pp. 150-156. Pg. 150: The named species, commonly called water spinach, is a very important summer vegetable in China. 20 December 1969, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 3: The cooperative (near Hanoi--ed.) also raises pigs and chickens, and produces sugar cane, bananas and a kind of water spinach. 1 February 1984, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. C9: Perhaps you are familiar enough with ginger, jicama, coriander and even Chinese white cabbage (bok choy), but would you know bamboo mustard cabbage, angled luffa or water spinach if you saw it or if a recipe required it? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 06:17:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:17:53 -0500 Subject: Cookie Cutter (1874, 1895) Message-ID: "Cookie cutter" is not in the OED. It's become part of slang. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) Home and Society: pp. 750-752 p. 751 1 match of 'cookie cutter*' in: Title: Scribners monthly, an illustrated magazine for the people. / Volume 8, Issue 6 Publisher: Scribner and son. Publication Date: October 1874 City: New York Pages: 770 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABP7664- Pg. 751: It is not so easy to suggest presents for tin as for wooden weddings; still, besides the practical pans, pails, cake-boxes, spice-boxes, kitchen-spoons, wire-covers, cookie cutters and candlesticks, there are many things sufficiently allied to tin to render them legitimate for such occasions. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) November 1895, LADIES' HOME JOURNAL, pg. 23: ...cut out with a cooky cutter and spread melted butter over the tops;... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 06:33:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:33:44 -0500 Subject: Cheese Wire (1970, 1972) Message-ID: "Cheese wire" is not in the OED. It's something used to cut the cheese--not to "wire" the "big cheese." 25 October 1970, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. XX5: The multi-colored, precipitous cliffs, exposed as if pared by a cheese wire, were coposed of a mixture of cinders, lava and pumice. 5 November 1972, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 38 ad: Cut cheese to the thickness you desire the way professionals do. Our cheese wire/slicer makes the job easy. (...) HOFFRITZ From eashton at MAC.COM Fri Apr 4 06:28:36 2003 From: eashton at MAC.COM (Elaine Ashton) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:28:36 +0300 Subject: rooty tooty Message-ID: My husband, a non-native English speaker, noticed 'rooty-tooty' in an article about Connie Chung in the Washington Post a week or so ago [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29406-2003Mar25.html ] and asked what it meant in the following sentence: "Both Isaacson and Kellner recently announced their resignations, and the guys brought in to replace them are decidedly CNN old guard; they like their TV news with a little less of the rooty-tooty." I've seen it used in the Denny's ads for the "rooty tooty fresh and fruity" menu but I can't really say I know what it means. In context I can guess the meaning is close to "sassy" or maybe "frivolous", but it's hard to pin down. It comes in several forms and, I'm guessing, is derivative of "rootin' tootin'". Anyone have a more definitive guess? :) e. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 06:55:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:55:19 -0500 Subject: Yuba (1983) Message-ID: "Yuba" is not in the OED or Merriam-Webster. I saw it in books today while looking for "seitan." It's also listed in the FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION. I added the word "soy" to "yuba" to cut out the "Yuba City" citations. Surprisingly, the NEW YORK TIMES wasn't helpful. These are from the FACTIVA database. Last one before parking tickets. MEATLESS MEALS Dried bean curd good in stew DAVID COHLMEYER 927 words 16 November 1983 The Globe and Mail SB10 We have heard a lot about the wonders of tofu. But there is another soy product from the Orient which deserves more attention than it has received - dried bean curd. Bean curd is somewhat of a misnomer. It is not really a curd, but the skin which forms on top of heated soy milk - not unlike the skin which forms on heated cow's milk. In Japan and China its deliciously sweet and nutty flavor and gossamer texture can be enjoyed fresh. In North America, we only have the dried version. Its delicate flavor is gone, but its fascinating texture remains. Dried bean curd is available in two forms - flat beige "sheets" and bunched-up "rope". It is available in Chinese stores as "dried bean curd" or dao fu choap. In Japanese stores it is called yuba. This bean curd contains most of the soy bean's protein, B vitamins and iron. Like other soy foods, it is very low in fats, cholesterol. When dry it keeps indefinitely. But if it becomes too dry, the curd becomes brittle and shatters. So look for a package which is not filled with crumbled pieces. (...) Highly-pure soy protein yields strong films 422 words 1 May 1998 Emerging Food R&D Report Vol. 9, No. 2 ISSN: 1050-2688 The film-forming ability of soy proteins has traditionally been used in the Far East to make soy protein-lipid films called yuba films. The process used to make yuba films consists of boiling soy milk in shallow pans, collecting the films formed as a result of surface dehydration and hanging the films so that they dry in air. Other researchers have prepared soy films by spreading soy protein isolate solutions on Teflon-coated baking pans and then baking the pans at 100 C for an hour. But depositing and drying soy protein solutions is a more promising way to make commercial-scale films since this approach allows for greater consistency and control during film formation. Others have produced homogeneous free-standing edible films from commercial soy protein using glycerol as a plasticizer. Scientists at the University of Nebraska (Department of Food Science and Technology, 352 Food Industry Complex, Lincoln, NE 68583) compared the tensile strength, elongation at break, water vapor permeability, solubility in water and color properties of films formed from commercial soy protein isolate with those of films formed from laboratory-prepared crude 7S and 11S fractions, and soy protein isolate. The investigators found that soy protein isolate of increased purity-about 96% to 98%-can yield stronger films than commercially-available soy protein isolate. (...) From lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG Fri Apr 4 07:58:12 2003 From: lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG (Scott Sadowsky) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 02:58:12 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966) In-Reply-To: <1e0.5fb2dd7.2bbe0c1a@aol.com> Message-ID: James A. Landau: >"Big apple" would be "manzana grande". "gran manzana" is something close to >"great apple". Don't feel bad. No, it is indeed "la gran manzana". The logic above sums up what's normally taught in textbooks, but it often doesn't hold in reality. Douglas G. Wilson: >Google hits: > >"la manzana grande" ... 52 >"la gran manzana" ... 791 > >"nueva york la manzana grande" ... 0 >"nueva york la gran manzana" ... 56 From the Dynamic Corpus of Chilean Spanish (Codicach) (currently at 625 million words): "la gran manzana": 1713 "la manzana grande": 0 "nueva york AND la gran manzana": 1473 nueva york AND la manzana grande": 0 Cheers, Scott From jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST Fri Apr 4 07:39:13 2003 From: jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST (Jan Ivarsson TransEdit) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:39:13 +0200 Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" Message-ID: I didn't find the program - the translator is working on it for a Swedish TV channel - but the text can be found at http://www.durfee.net/will/scripts/s0306.htm Thanks for the explanation. It has been forwarded. Jan Ivarsson ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. Landau" To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Does this come in a boot?" > In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST writes: > > > MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? > > Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, > > gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? > > JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. > > > > WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A > > SWEATER.] > > The only likely interpretation of "Does this come in a boot?" that would make > the audience laugh is the straightforwards one, "Can I find a pair of boots > in this color and/or pattern?" This interpretation also fits with the rest > of the quoted dialogue, which is about trying to find color matches to > Matthew's trousers. > > The humor seems to lie not in the dialogue itself but rather in what the > sweater looks like---to get a big laugh the sweater will have to have colors > or a pattern that is quite implausible to find in pair of boots. > > A speaker of British English might interpret "in a boot" to mean "in the boot > of a car" but I can't see how that would be funny. > > - Jim Landau > > PS. Am I imagining things, or did you find a television program about a > homosexual menage a trois? > From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Apr 4 08:04:17 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:04:17 -0800 Subject: Food Stylist (1936, 1938); OT: Food in Film In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030403172939.00bcf2f8@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: >But seriously, don't forget "Like Water for Chocolate" and the Danish movie >"Babette's Feast"--yummy! Or "Tampopo" or "Eat, Drink, Man, Woman" or even "The Big Night." Rima From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Fri Apr 4 15:05:47 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:05:47 -0500 Subject: Japanese Sound Effects from Comic Books Message-ID: Snagged this one off of Metafilter today. It's the translation of the sound effects (the equivalents of BAM! and KPOW! and DOH!) in Japanese comics and graphic novels. I don't know how accurate it is, but it's certainly interesting. http://www.oop-ack.com/manga/soundfx.html -- Grant Barrett Editor, World New York http://www.worldnewyork.net/ gbarrett at worldnewyork.org From andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU Fri Apr 4 18:43:57 2003 From: andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU (Drew Danielson) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:43:57 -0500 Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) Message-ID: FWIW, seitan is mostly made of rendered wheat gluten (the gluten is the important part as far as defining seitan - it's the protein from wheat flour without much of the carbs or cellulose). I first tried it in about 1989. Not a bad flavor (should be seasoned or served with other foods, though), nice 'meaty' texture if it's blanched. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:37:08 +0100 > From: Imran Ghory > Subject: Re: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) > > On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header > ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: Bapopik at AOL.COM > > Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Vegetarians eat satan? > > Not in OED or Merriam-Webster. Over 17,000 Google hits. > > > > > > 30 November 1986, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 697: > > (Couldn't get full text for this, just an article summary without the > word--ed.) > > > A 1984 usenet message spelling it "setan", > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=202%40bpa.UUCP&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain > > Imran > -- > http://bits.bris.ac.uk/imran > > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 19:48:03 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:48:03 EST Subject: Seitan (1960s); Encyclopedia of Food & Culture (2003) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 7:49:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > the word "seitan" was coined in the mid-1960s by acrobiotics teacher George > Ohsawa the word should have benn "macrobiotics". However, your version presents the vision of Mr. Ohsawa eating vegetarian food on top of tall buildings, after which he leaps them in single bounds... From millerk at NYTIMES.COM Fri Apr 4 21:43:51 2003 From: millerk at NYTIMES.COM (Kathleen E. Miller) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:43:51 -0500 Subject: Soda Straw Message-ID: Funny thing about doing research on words coming out of the pentagon while a war's going on - their too busy to talk to you. I've already searched the archives - therefore I have Mr. Popik's 1922 hit for it. And I am not interested in the actual soda straw. What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning "narrow" as in the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" (earliest I've found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." Any ideas where I might find that? It came out of the mouth of Gen. Myers - but like I said, the pentagon ain't answering their phones. Thanks again Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The New York Times From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 4 23:47:41 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:47:41 -0800 Subject: Soda Straw In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030404163735.00b14510@smtp-store.nytimes.com> Message-ID: There is a Usenet post from 1997 that uses "soda straw view:" "Instructor slapped mask back on at 100% O-two. Vision spread out instantly from the down-the-soda-straw view I had acquired." QDurham (qdurham at aol.com), Subject: Re: questions regarding oxygen, altitude and cabin pressure, Newsgroup: rec.aviation.homebuilt, Date: 6 Aug 1997 There is also the following from 1992, about night vision equipment on fighter planes: "There is a problem with depth perception, and the view through the HUD FLIR is best described as 'like looking through a soda straw', but in my experience, they are appreciated by the aircrews." Mark Shanks (shanks at saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com), Subject: Re: Falcon OFT night missions and tidbits, Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games, Date: 18 Sep 1992 You also see the term crop up in astronomy circles, enabling the blind, etc. But it clearly has been used in Air Force circles for at least a decade, so it's no surprise that Myers, an Air Force general, picked it up. > -----Original Message----- > From: American Dialect Society > [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf > Of Kathleen E. Miller > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:44 PM > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Soda Straw > > > Funny thing about doing research on words coming out of the > pentagon while > a war's going on - their too busy to talk to you. I've > already searched the > archives - therefore I have Mr. Popik's 1922 hit for it. And I am not > interested in the actual soda straw. > > What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning > "narrow" as in > the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" (earliest I've > found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." > > Any ideas where I might find that? It came out of the mouth > of Gen. Myers - > but like I said, the pentagon ain't answering their phones. > > > Thanks again > > > Kathleen E. Miller > Research Assistant to William Safire > The New York Times > From RonButters at AOL.COM Sat Apr 5 00:57:35 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:57:35 EST Subject: rooty tooty Message-ID: "rooty-toot-toot" is (for me) a kind of iconic phrase for the sound of a horn being blown. I would interpret this to mean 'with a little less ornament' or 'just the straight, unadorned news'. In a message dated 4/4/03 1:39:44 AM, eashton at MAC.COM writes: << My husband, a non-native English speaker, noticed 'rooty-tooty' in an article about Connie Chung in the Washington Post a week or so ago [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29406-2003Mar25.html ] and asked what it meant in the following sentence: "Both Isaacson and Kellner recently announced their resignations, and the guys brought in to replace them are decidedly CNN old guard; they like their TV news with a little less of the rooty-tooty." I've seen it used in the Denny's ads for the "rooty tooty fresh and fruity" menu but I can't really say I know what it means. In context I can guess the meaning is close to "sassy" or maybe "frivolous", but it's hard to pin down. It comes in several forms and, I'm guessing, is derivative of "rootin' tootin'". Anyone have a more definitive guess? :) e. >> From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Sat Apr 5 02:05:06 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:05:06 -0500 Subject: Soda Straw In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030404163735.00b14510@smtp-store.nytimes.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: > What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning "narrow" as in > the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" (earliest I've > found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." Nexis has the following from Defense Daily, Nov. 3, 1997: Using its high resolution video camera, the Lockheed Martin [LMT] P-3 was to provide a "soda straw view" of moving targets and identify those targets as friend or foe, said Lt. Cmdr. David Acton, the intelligence officer for Amphibious Squadron 11. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Sat Apr 5 14:07:15 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:07:15 -0500 Subject: Frank Abate in N.Y. Times In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030404163735.00b14510@smtp-store.nytimes.com> Message-ID: Congratulations to Frank Abate, who is quoted about the semantic distinction between "capitulation" and "surrender" in tomorrow's "On Language" column by William Safire in the New York Times. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tb0exc1 at CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU Sat Apr 5 15:48:59 2003 From: tb0exc1 at CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU (callary ed) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:48:59 -0600 Subject: kickapoo = red bud? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Several early Illinois county histories claim that Kickapoo was a native name for the red bud. In the words of one, published about 1898, Kickapoo Creek was so called "by the Indians ... 'the Kickapoo,' which is their name for the Red Bud or Judas tree, which grew in great abundance along its banks." This sense of Kickapoo, usually glossed as 'wanderers,' is not in Mathews or DARE. Is this a local usage and can it be confirmed by a more reliable source than a local history? *********************************************************************** Edward Callary Phone: 815-753-6627 English Department email: ecallary at niu.edu Northern Illinois University FAX: 815-753-0606 DeKalb, Il 60115-2863 *********************************************************************** From gcohen at UMR.EDU Sat Apr 5 16:50:23 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:50:23 -0600 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? Message-ID: This is a bit off-topic, but maybe someone can help. I've been asked whether the ancient Romans trilled the sound /r/. Would anyone have any idea about this? Gerald Cohen From einstein at FROGNET.NET Sat Apr 5 18:36:36 2003 From: einstein at FROGNET.NET (David Bergdahl) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:36:36 -0500 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? Message-ID: I remember Swadesh (summer '66) saying that the uvular-R was a fashion that spread through Europe S > N but I never found any subsequent refernce to it. From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Sat Apr 5 20:20:20 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:20:20 -0500 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? In-Reply-To: <000101c2fba2$5c601670$24b89b3f@chaos> Message-ID: David Bergdahl wrote: >I remember Swadesh (summer '66) saying that the uvular-R was a fashion that >spread through Europe S > N but I never found any subsequent refernce to it. This is pretty well known. There are maps of the spread in various recent sociolinguistics texts, by Trudgill and/or Chambers. -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From sussex at UQ.EDU.AU Sat Apr 5 21:58:26 2003 From: sussex at UQ.EDU.AU (Prof. R. Sussex) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 07:58:26 +1000 Subject: cookie cutter In-Reply-To: <200304050500.h35509dx015567@mailhub2.uq.edu.au> Message-ID: There is also a "cookie cutter shark", distinguished by an amiable habit of biting cookie-shaped chunks out of its victims. Roly Sussex -- Roly Sussex Professor of Applied Language Studies Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies The University of Queensland Brisbane Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 Email: sussex at uq.edu.au Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html School's website: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ Applied linguistics website: http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ Language Talkback ABC radio: Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ ********************************************************** From sussex at UQ.EDU.AU Sat Apr 5 22:10:49 2003 From: sussex at UQ.EDU.AU (Prof. R. Sussex) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:10:49 +1000 Subject: implosives and spectrograms In-Reply-To: <200304040500.h3450kIL016027@mailhub1.uq.edu.au> Message-ID: Vietnamese has implosive /b/ /d/ in initial position. Since there are so many VN students in our universities, it should be possible to record some and put the result into a software package like Sound Studio. Roly Sussex -- Roly Sussex Professor of Applied Language Studies Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies The University of Queensland Brisbane Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 Email: sussex at uq.edu.au Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html School's website: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ Applied linguistics website: http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ Language Talkback ABC radio: Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ ********************************************************** From translation at BILLIONBRIDGES.COM Sat Apr 5 23:42:38 2003 From: translation at BILLIONBRIDGES.COM (Billionbridges.com) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:42:38 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: In a rather hysterical article written in Chinese I came across recently a Taiwanese person rants that the epithets in English denoting nationality which use the "ese" suffix are insulting and racist (where those which do not, such as "American" or "German" etc., are not). The author claims that "ese" was traditionally used by the English in adjectives describing unimportant, weak, strange or sickly things or people(s). He further relates personal anecdotes in which the term "Chinese" has been used by Americans in scorn. In his estimation "Chinese" is as insulting to, erm, Chinese as "nigger" is to African-Americans. Hypersensitive and misguided? Clearly. An ignorant crackpot? Well, the author has decided that in future when English-speakers ask where he's from he will answer the "Central Kingdom of Sinai." He is a Sinaian, he says. Nevertheless, leaving Egypt and the politics of the Taiwan Strait aside, I wonder where this author's conception that the "ese" suffix is insulting came from? Or is this completely baseless and/or irredeemably idiolectic? The link, for the Chinese-enabled: http://teacher.cyivs.cy.edu.tw/~hchung/despisechinese.htm Best, Don From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 00:09:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:09:24 -0500 Subject: Cappicola, Kielbasa and much more meat (1938) Message-ID: SAUSAGE AND READY-TO-SERVE MEATS prepared by Committee on Recording of the Institute Plan Commission, Institute of Meat Packers Chicago: Institute of Meat Packing, University of Chicago 1938 This is a great book on meat. Thankfully, I'm now sitting at a computer that types the letter "m." Maybe OED will add "cappicola" and quickly revise that 1953 Saul Bellow first citation for "kielbasa." Let me know if you want more detail. Pg. 16: _Fresh Sausage_ Pg. 17: _Fresh pork sausage_..._Fresh country style pork sausage_..._Bratwurst_..._Fresh sausage or sausage meat_..._Fresh thuringer style sausage_..._Bockwurst_. Pg. 18: Uncooked Smoked Sausage..._Smoked country style pork sausage_..._Smoked country style sausage_..._Mettwurst_..._Polish sausage_ (or _kielbasa_) is amde from coarsely ground lean pork with added beef, and is highly seasoned with garlic. Pg. 19: (_Kielbasa_ in the original Polish sense is a term referring to all sausage. In America, however, kielbasa frequently is used to refer to this sausage.) Pg. 19: Cooked Smoked Sausage:...__Frankfurters_..._Wieners_ and _Vienna style sausages_..._Cocktail style frankfurters_..._Garlic, knoblauch or knackwurst sausage_..._Bologna_... Pg. 20: _Ham style bologna_..._Berliner style sausage_..._German type mortadella_... Cooked Sausages:..._Liver sausage_... Pg. 21: _Blood sausage or blutwurst_... Cooked Specialties:..._Luncheon specialty_..._Minced luncheon specialty_..._Head cheese_..._Souse_..._Meat loaves_.... Pg. 22: Dry Sausage:..._Summer sausage_..._Farmer cervelat_... Pg. 23: _Holsteiner cervelat_..._Thuringer cervelat_..._Goettinger cervelat_..._Goteborg cervelat_..._Landjaeger cervelat_..._Gothaer_..._Italian salamis_..._Allessandri_ and _Alpino_ are Italian-type salamis or American origin. _Arles_ is a salami of French origin and is similar to Italian salamis. _German and Hungarian salamis_..._Lyons sausage_... Pg. 24: _Cappicola_ is of Italian origin and is made of boneless pork shoulder butt, seasoned with ground red-hot or sweet peppers, salt and sugar, mildly cured and air dried. _Mortadella_..._Pepperoni_..._Frizzes_..._Chorizos_... Pg. 120: _Devonshire Style Sausage_... Pg. 143: _Berliner or New England Ham Style_... Pg. 147: _Lebanon Bologna_ Lebanon bologna is a product originally produced at Lebanon, Pennsylvania. There are a few packers or sausage makers who place this product upon the market. Pg. 148: _Paraffined Bologna_... Pg. 170: _Farmer Sausage and Holsteiner_... Pg. 171: _Thuringer Cervelat_... Pg. 173: _Pepperoni Sausage_... Pg. 174: _Swedish Medwurst_... Pg. 175: _Italian Salami_... Pg. 176: _German Salami_... Pg. 177: _Chorizos_... Pg. 179: _Milano Salami, Alessandria, D'Arles_..._Mortadella_..._Apennino_...Sarno_... Pg. 178: _Cappicola_ Cappicola is made from a cured pork butt which has been held for 20 days in a freezer at a temperature of 5(degrees--ed.)F. either before or after curing. Pg. 180: _Genoa Salami_..._Cooked Salami_ (Salami Cotto)..._Kosher Salami_... Pg. 207: _Braunschweiger Mettwurst_... Pg. 209: _Souse--Sulz_ Head cheese, souse and sulz are very similar products. Originally sulz was made of pigsfeet with the bone in. Later it was made from boneless material to permit slicing. At the present time, the main difference between head cheese and sulz or souse is that vinegar is used in the latter two products and a larger percentage of jelly is included, as is indicated in the following formula... Pg. 287: _Luncheon Meat_ The best grades of luncheon meat are made from lean pork trimmings. (OED has "luncheon meat" from 1945--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 00:46:10 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:46:10 -0500 Subject: Pinot, Grenache, Rose Wine (1829) Message-ID: THE VINE-DRESSER'S THEORETICAL AND PRACTICAL MANUAL, OR THE ART OF CULTIVATING THE VINE by Thiebaut de Berneaus New-York: P. Canfield 1829 The earliest wine volume by C. Redding goes back to 1833, so this is a little earlier. Again, Merriam-Webster has "pinot noir" from 1941. Pg. 18: THE BLACK BURGUNDY. _le Bourguignon voir_. The sort generally known by this name, is sometimes called _franc Pineau_, _Farinau_, _Noirier_, _Auvernas_. Pg. 24: And now, under the single name of _Pinot_ or _Pineau_ almost every red grape may be found so called by the Vintagers, without any one being able to answer whether this name, which only suits such sorts as have berries shaped like the pine-cone, is given by them to the kind to which this name (Pg. 25--ed.) belongs, and which is cultivated in the Departments of the Yonne, Cote-d'Or, Saone and Loire; or to that grape which yields the small wines of Vosges and the flat wines of Haute-Vienne. Pg. 149: France produces a considerable number of good wuality, fit to compete with expensive imported wines of this kind. There are red and white; those rated best, are the white Muscats or Rivesaltes (Eastern Pyrennees,) which connoisseurs liken to the best Malvoisy; Frontignac and Lunel, (Herault); the red _Grenache_ wine from the vineyards of Bagnyals, Cosperon, Rhodes, and Collioure (Eastern Pyrenees,) the keen zest of which rivals the Rota or even Cyprus wine; the white _Macabeo_, made at Saleeta, (same department,) and which somewhat favours Tokay; and the Muscats called _Picardan_, _Calabrian_, _Malaga_ and _Madeira_ imitations &c. which are prepared in several of the vinegrounds of the department of Herault. Pg. 151: Rose Wine. The grapes in the department of Marne, intended for rose wine, are culled and gathered with the same precautions as those for sparkling wine;... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 01:57:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:57:43 -0500 Subject: Aluminum Foil (1870) Message-ID: "Aluminum foil" is not an entry in OED (earliest cite 1946?). It's been used to wrap food in. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Nov 19, 1870; Vol. Vol. XXIII., Iss. 0 7. SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN.; THE REDUCING PROPERTIES METALLIC ALUMINUM. ; pg. 325, 1 pgs ("Regular octohedra crystals of thallium formed upon the aluminum foil from a solution of the sulphate after a lapse of ten days.") (JSTOR databse) Hints to Travellers George Back; Francis Galton Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society of London, Vol. 16, No. 1. (1871 - 1872), pp. 1+3+5-78. Pg. 22: A disc of aluminum foil, procurable at Johnson, Matthey, & Co., 77, Hatton Garen, London, is only one-ninth part the weight of a mother-of-pearl card of the same size. Quadrant Electrometers W. E. Ayrton; J. Perry; W. E. Sumpner Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. A, Vol. 182. (1891), pp. 519-564. Pg. 539: ...attaching a piece of thin aluminum foil to it... The Revival of Alchemy H. Carrington Bolton Science, New Series, Vol. 6, No. 154. (Dec. 10, 1897), pp. 853-863. Pg. 858: He placed in a stout glass tube a piece of aluminum foil with pure nitric acid and sealed the tube hermetically. http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blaluminum.htm (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS database) Aluminum Co. of America.; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 7, 1913; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("The site of the first plant in the United States for rolling aluminum foil has been selected at Arnold, Pa.") (US PATENT AND TRADEMARK records) Word Mark REYNOLDS WRAP Goods and Services IC 006. US 014. G & S: ALUMINUM FOIL SHEETS AND ROLLS. FIRST USE: 19470900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19470900 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72038386 Filing Date October 4, 1957 Registration Number 0677909 Registration Date May 5, 1959 Owner (REGISTRANT) REYNOLDS METALS COMPANY CORPORATION DELAWARE 6601 WEST BROAD STREET RICHMOND VIRGINIA 23230 Prior Registrations 0605277 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19990608 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark CHEF-FOIL PURE ALUMINUM HOUSEHOLD FOIL Goods and Services IC 006. US 014. G & S: ALUMINUM FOIL. FIRST USE: 19521022. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19521022 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 050910 080101 080525 081101 081106 110313 190704 190705 200302 261109 261121 Serial Number 71640785 Filing Date March 2, 1954 Registration Number 0590094 Registration Date May 18, 1954 Owner (REGISTRANT) COCHRAN FOIL COMPANY DBA COCHRAN FOIL PRODUCTS CO. CORPORATION KENTUCKY 1430 S. 13TH ST. LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY (LAST LISTED OWNER) ALCAN ALUMINUM CORPORATION CORPORATION BY MERGER AND CHANGE OF NAME FROM OHIO P. O. BOX 6977 CLEVELAND OHIO 441011977 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 0549290 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19940818 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark REYNOLDS WRAP Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 016. US 037. G & S: WRAPPING SHEETS. FIRST USE: 19530911. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19530911 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 240907 260302 260925 Serial Number 71654843 Filing Date February 14, 1955 Registration Number 0605277 Registration Date April 26, 1955 Owner (REGISTRANT) REYNOLDS METALS COMPANY CORPORATION DELAWARE REYNOLDS METALS BLDG. RICHMOND VIRGINIA Prior Registrations 0329760;0332398;0545767 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19750426 Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Word Mark REYNOLDS WRAP Goods and Services IC 006. US 014. G & S: ALUMINUM FOIL. FIRST USE: 19580900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19580900 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 261112 261121 261321 Serial Number 73072886 Filing Date December 29, 1975 Change In Registration CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED Registration Number 1067092 Registration Date June 7, 1977 Owner (REGISTRANT) REYNOLDS METALS COMPANY CORPORATION DELAWARE 6601 W. BROAD STREET RICHMOND VIRGINIA 23230 Attorney of Record ALAN T MCDONALD Prior Registrations 0605277;0677909;0818018 Disclaimer THE DESCRIPTIVE WORD "WRAP" IS NOT CLAIMED HEREIN APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN. Description of Mark THE DRAWING IS LINED TO DESIGNATE THE COLORS BLUE, SILVER, AND PINK. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19970130 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 02:16:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:16:13 -0500 Subject: Amer Picon (1889) Message-ID: OED has 1914 for "Amer Picon," under "Picon." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Oct 1889; Vol. Vol. III,, Iss. 0 1. What the French People Drink; --London Victualler ; pg. 316, 2 pgs Pg. 317: Curacoa, a liqueur made with orange peel and brandy, raspail, noyeau, humel, white wine, clarets, etc.; cider, cergear, groseille, cassis, lemonade, anisette, byrrh, and amer picon. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 02:47:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:47:09 -0500 Subject: Anjou pear (1881) Message-ID: "Anjou pear" is not in OED. The American Periodical Series database doesn't have it? POINTS FOR HOUSEKEEPERS.; VARIETIES AND PRICES OF THE FRUITS THAT REMAIN IN MARKET.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 31, 1881; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Beurre d'Anjou pears (one of the best table fruits) are now offered on the market for about $8 per barrel, or $3 per box.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 03:19:21 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:19:21 -0500 Subject: Bavarian Cream (1851, 1854, 1856, 1860, 1861) Message-ID: OED has 1880 for "Bavarian cream." (GERRITSEN COLLECTION) Anonymous [Full Citation] [Page Image] The Carolina housewife : or, House and home Charleston, S.C.: W.R. Babcock, 1851, 212 pgs. ("Bavarian Cream..121") (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Otis, Eliza Henderson (Bordman) "Mrs. Harrison Gray Otis," 1796-1873. Title: The Barclays of Boston. By Mrs. Harrison Gray Otis. Publication date: 1854. Search results: 1 match in full text list of all pages | view first page | add to bookbag Page 241 - 1 term matching ("...--to lard a partridge, and compound a Bavarian cream--...") (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) May, 1856 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LII page 473 (...) ONE of our lady subscribers some time since asked for a recipe to make << Bavarian cream>> . We have been very kindly furnished it by “a friend,” to whom we return our thanks, and will be pleased to receive from her other recipes from her “twenty years' actual experience.” RECIPE FOR << BAVARIAN CREAM>> . Mix one pint of thick cream with the juice of a large lemon and a glass of white wine; put the peel of the lemon in whole, with a sufficient quantity of loaf sugar to sweeten it; beat them well together with a whisk; put a piece of clean muslin over the mould, and pour the cream in; let it drain till the following day, then turn it out carefully. There are earthenware moulds on purpose, with small holes to let out the whey. April, 1861 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LXII Page 345 (...) I hope Thomas won't tell about my asking him how to seat my company at dinner, and how to dish out the Dariolas with Ratafias and the << Bavarian Cream>> . (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) De Treville, Mary Darby, fl. 1861-1865. "Letter from Mary Darby De Treville, 1860" [Page 182 | Paragraph | Section | Document] It may seem strange for us to be dancing at such a time, but the boys on furlough would plead so hard for dances, saying "we have no pleasure and we enjoy the dances so much." In January, 1865, we held the last bazaar. I was at the Louisiana Table, presided over by Mrs. Slocum. The Bavarian cream was in great demand; kept me busy helping the officers and soldiers who were there (not many); one officer with a brand new uniform was a striking figure; when he asked for cream, I looked curiously at him. He said, "What's the matter? Why don't you help me?" I replied, "You don't look as if you had Results Bibliography De Treville, Mary Darby, fl. 1861-1865, Letter from Mary Darby De Treville, 1860, in South Carolina Women in the Confederacy, vol. 2. Conner, Mrs. James. Columbia, SC: State Company, 1907, pp. 244. [Bibliographic Details] [1860] S2064-D002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 03:46:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:46:53 -0500 Subject: Blender (1939) Message-ID: OED has 1948 for the "blender" used in cooking. Word Mark BLENDOR Goods and Services IC 007. US 021. G & S: ELECTRICAL DISINTEGRATORS AND MIXERS FOR PRODUCING FLUID SUBSTANCES FROM SOLID FOODS AND OTHER ORGANIC MATTER AND FOR INTERMIXING FLUIDS. FIRST USE: 19390518. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19390518 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 71606582 Filing Date November 17, 1950 Registration Number 0585384 Registration Date February 9, 1954 Owner (REGISTRANT) WARING PRODUCTS CORPORATION CORPORATION DELAWARE 25 WEST 43RD STREET NEW YORK NEW YORK (LAST LISTED OWNER) DYNAMICS CORPORATION OF AMERICA CORPORATION BY MERGER WITH NEW YORK 475 STEAMBOAT ROAD GREENWICH CONNECTICUT 06830 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record THEODORE R. PAULDING Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19940915 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 04:27:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:27:30 -0500 Subject: Blue Point oysters (1783); Lombardi's Pizzeria is 53 1/2 Message-ID: LOMBARDI'S PIZZERIA Admit it, you've been on pins and needles wondering if Gennaro Lombardi's pizzeria was really at 53 1/3 Spring Street. The first "reverse directory" of Manhattan was published in 1929, and this shows a 5-18-1929 date. 1929 MANHATTAN ADDRESS TELEPHONE DIRECTORY, pg. 205: 53 1/2 Brown & Fogel mens coats M8 CAN-9567 53 1/2 Lombardi G bakery CAN-10298 --------------------------------------------------------------- BLUE POINT OYSTERS OED has 1789 for "blue point oysters." I'll try to do better when more pre-1800 material becomes available. Accessible Archives Search and Information Server March 5, 1783 The Pennsylvania Gazette NEW YORK, Feb. 26. L'Aimable Catichette, captain Stephen Patie, from Guadaloupe, for Virginia, prize to his majestyships Amphion and Cyclops, ran on shore last Friday night, back of Staten Island, and on Sunday vessels were sent down to endeavour to get her off. (...) The same day was brought in, taken by some oystermen at << Blue point>> , the sloop Dolphin, captain Scranton, of 6 guns and 20 men from Boston. From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Sun Apr 6 08:34:01 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Subject: Aluminum Foil (1870) In-Reply-To: <46D55113.646C7438.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: > "Aluminum foil" is not an entry in OED (earliest cite 1946?). > It's been used to wrap food in. Our crazy British spellings have confused you. "Aluminium foil" is there, defined as "paper-thin sheet aluminium, used as wrapping material, etc", though no citation exists for that sense under the heading. The earliest example is 1892, concerning its use as an alternative to magnesium in photographic flash guns. The earliest example of general scientific use is 1931, of food wrapping 1962. MoA can match your earliest example: 1870 Fresenius, C. Remigius "A system of instruction in quantitative chemical analysis" 14 With respect to the material most suitable for the manufacture of weights, we commonly rest satisfied with having the smaller weights only, from 1 or 0.5 gramme downwards, made of platinum or aluminium foil, using brass weights for all the higher denominations. That equation is a good illustration of the cost of aluminium at that period, as it only became affordable after the electrolytic process was commercialised in the early 1890s. Also, it shows that the metal's name was usually spelled "aluminium" in the USA at that date (the book was published by John Wiley in New York). -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From gcohen at UMR.EDU Sun Apr 6 14:19:17 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:19:17 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," "Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to mind now is "Stengelese." Casey Stengel was manager of the New York Yankees during much (all?) of the 1950's. During his press conferences he often talked in a way that had reporters scratching their heads in confusion, and they referred to his manner of speaking as "Stengelese." At one point the Yankees fired Stengel for allegedly being too old to continue at the helm, despite his remarkably successful record, and at his next press conference Stengel spoke with complete clarity about the unfairness of the action. Many of the reporters were surprised that he could talk clearly after all. Gerald Cohen >At 6:42 PM -0500 4/5/03, Billionbridges.com wrote: >In a rather hysterical article written in Chinese I came across >recently a Taiwanese person rants that the epithets in English >denoting nationality which use the "ese" suffix are insulting >and racist (where those which do not, such as "American" or >"German" etc., are not). The author claims that "ese" was >traditionally used by the English in adjectives describing unimportant, >weak, strange or sickly things or people(s). He further relates >personal anecdotes in which the term "Chinese" has been used >by Americans in scorn. In his estimation "Chinese" is as insulting >to, erm, Chinese as "nigger" is to African-Americans. > >Hypersensitive and misguided? Clearly. An ignorant crackpot? Well, >the author has decided that in future when English-speakers ask >where he's from he will answer the "Central Kingdom of Sinai." He >is a Sinaian, he says. > >Nevertheless, leaving Egypt and the politics of the Taiwan Strait aside, >I wonder where this author's conception that the "ese" suffix is insulting >came from? Or is this completely baseless and/or irredeemably idiolectic? > >The link, for the Chinese-enabled: >http://teacher.cyivs.cy.edu.tw/~hchung/despisechinese.htm > >Best, >Don From douglas at NB.NET Sun Apr 6 17:27:49 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:27:49 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* >become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something >that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," >"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to >mind now is "Stengelese." I think of "bureaucratese" first. "X-ese" as a noun here = "language of X". The suffix "-ese" is apparently the English reflex of Latin genitive ending "-ensis", which is still used as a sort of default genitive in modern Latin. So for example the organism Nocardia beijingensis is the Nocardia "of Beijing", while Legionella pittsburghensis refers to the Legionella "of Pittsburgh", while Pseudomonas wisconsinensis is named after Wisconsin, etc. Similarly a University of Wisconsin seal might read "Universitatis Wisconsinensis Sigillum" = "Seal of the University of Wisconsin". So the long-term etymology does not support the "derogatory" thesis. Why is "-ese" more frequent in application to East Asia? There are "Portuguese", "Viennese", "Faroese", etc., in Europe, but there are many more "-eses" in Asia ("Shanghainese", "Pekinese", "Siamese", "Sundanese", "Singhalese", etc., etc.): is it because East Asians (along with persons from Vienna or the Faroes perhaps?) are/were despised? I would say no, it is because places far from the Roman Empire had no names in Latin and therefore no natural genitive endings, so they tend to take the 'default' ending "-ensis", thus "-ese" (with some obvious exceptions where a name looks like it could conform to another Latin paradigm, e.g., "Korea"/"Korean"). Scotland was known to Rome, so a bacterium named after Scotland for example is Actinobacillus scotiae (NOT "scotlandensis" or whatever) using the established genitive ending for Scotia = Scotland. Neither Japan nor Wisconsin (nor Congo) was known to Rome, so their names lack declensions from classical Latin. [No doubt my perception is absurdly oversimplified, and perhaps I'm completely in error on some of my examples. The place-names in many cases actually came through French and other Romance languages, I believe.] -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 20:34:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:34:49 -0400 Subject: Blush Wine (1984) Message-ID: "Blush wine" is not in the OED. "Blush," meaning "rosy colour," is in the OED from 1590. The NEW YORK TIMES first citation is 1984, and it becomes very frequent after that. Obviously, if I had full text of a California newspaper, that would help. 1 August 1984, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. C16 ad: "BLUSH WINES" (WORLDCAT database) Title: Minimizing browning in blush wines with sulfur dioxide, glucose oxidase, ascorbic acid, tannic acid, and hyperoxidation / Author(s): Hatfield, Jason M. (Jason Matthew) Year: 1994 Description: viii, 82 leaves : ill. ; 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Wine and wine making. Oxidation. Note(s): "December 1994."/ Includes bibliographical references./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--University of Arkansas, Fayetteville, 1994. Class Descriptors: LC: TP548.5.B76 Responsibility: by Jason M. Hatfield. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19950727 Update: 20020705 Accession No: OCLC: 32882813 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 20:55:37 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:55:37 -0400 Subject: Carolina Rice (1764, 1776, 1787) Message-ID: OED has 1787 for "Carolina rice," where it was coined by Thomas Jefferson. The OXFORD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FOOD AND DRINK probably has Karen Hess's writings on the subject, but I'll add these citations anyway. The first citation below looks like a surname. (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) July 23, 1741 The Pennsylvania Gazette NEW YORK, July 20. On Saturday last six Negroes were executed at the Gallows, and one at the Stake; one of those that was hang'd behav'd with such unparallel'd impenitance and impudence as to amaze the Spectators. Custom-House, New York, June 22. Entred Inwards. Cannon from Boston and Rhode Island. Entred Out. Banter for Rhode Island, Good and Denmark for Boston, Rice for North Carolina, Bascome for Bermudas, Righton for St. Christophers, Walker for Barbados. Cleared, Stout to Madeira and Lisbon, Hepburn to Dublin, Gill and Kippen to Maryland, Schermerhorn to South << Carolina>> , << Rice>> to North Carolina, Hunt to Bermudas, Pitts to Barbados, Eve and Adderly to Jamaica, Hunter to Rhode Island, Cooper and McKenty to Newfoundland. August 9, 1764 The Pennsylvania Gazette (...) Likewise, a few barrels of choice new << Carolina rice>> ; rum, by the hogshead or barrel; all which will be sold on very low terms for cash. February 14, 1776 The Pennsylvania Gazette THOMAS ROKER HEREBY informs the Public, that he is removed from his late dwelling house, at the corner of Laetitia Court, in Market street, to the corner of Arch and Water streets, near the New Ferry, where he has for sale, a general assortment of Wet Goods and Groceries, as usual, amongst which are a few gallons excellent arrack, 12 years old, and some old genuine French brandy; wine and cyder vinegar, by the large or small quantity; coffee, by the bag, barrel, or pound; << Carolina rice>> , by the tierce or smaller quantity; mustard, by the pound or in bottles; coffee, burnt and ground; chocolate, pepper, alspice, ginger, Florence oil. English split pease, oatmeal, grotts, indigo, citron, &c. &c. &c. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The New - Haven Gazette, and the Connecticut Magazine (1786-1789), New Haven; Jan 11, 1787; Vol. 1, Iss. 47 American intelligence: New-York, January 2; Anonymous; pg. 362, 2 pgs (Pg. 363: It has also been determined that particular information be taken concerning the sonsumptions of Carolina rice in France, and that means be devised to encourage the importation of that article.) From gcohen at UMR.EDU Sun Apr 6 21:20:34 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:20:34 -0500 Subject: Irving Lewis Allen died Message-ID: I have sad news to pass along: I hadn't heard from Irving Lewis Allen for a while and today received a message from his wife that he passed away in June after a six-month illness from cancer. Irving was Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut at Storrs and authored (among other works) _The City in Slang: New York Life and Popular Speech_ (New York: Oxford University Press), 1993. We were in frequent contact during his preparation of the book and remained in touch afterwards too. Gerald Cohen From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 21:24:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:24:19 -0400 Subject: Butter Clam (1924, 1928, 1932, 1935) Message-ID: OED has no entry and only one mention of "butter clams" in 1962. I have to do something for those readers at the University of Washington. (FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION by Sharon Herbst) butter clam A small, sweet, hard-shell clam from Puget Sound. Butter clams can be cooked in a variety of ways, including steaming, stewing and frying. (WORLDCAT) Title: The morphology of the Butter clam, Saxidomus giganteus, Deshayes Author: Rosen, Hilda Florence Libraries with Item: "The morphology of the But..."( Record for Item )Location Library Code WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: The morphology of the Butter clam, Saxidomus giganteus, Deshayes ... Author(s): Rosen, Hilda Florence. Year: 1924 Description: 39 numb. L. 54 figures on XXXI plates. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Clams. Note(s): Type-written./ Each plate accompanied by guard-sheet with descriptive letter-press./ Bibliography: L.35-39./ Dissertation: A thesis submitted for the degree of Master of Science--University of Washington, 1924. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19961010 Update: 19961010 Accession No: OCLC: 35712401 Database: WorldCat (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Forum and Century (1930-1940), New York; Dec 1932; Vol. VOL. LXXXVIII, Iss. 0 We Americans; I--Fred salo, the Forgotten Man I ; by TOM JONES PARRY; pg. 330, 6 pgs (Pg. 334: The tide was way out when they got to the point, and they dug a whole truck load of razor-back and butter clams, and some of the men got gooey ducks.) (JSTOR) A Study of the Animal Communities of a Restricted Area of Soft Bottom in the San Juan Channel (in Some Marine Biotic Communities of the Pacific Coast of North America; Part II. A Study of the Animal Communities of a Restricted Area of Soft Bottom in the San Juan Channel) Nettie M. Wismer; John H. Swanson Ecological Monographs, Vol. 5, No. 3. (Jul., 1935), pp. 333-354. (Pg. 349: _Fraser, C. McLean and Smith, Gertrude M._ 1928b. Notes on the ecology of the butter clam, Saxidomus giganteus Deshayes. Trans. Roy. Soc. Can. Ser. 3 22:271-286. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 21:57:05 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:57:05 -0400 Subject: Butter Curler (1914); Irving Lewis Allen Message-ID: IRVING LEWIS ALLEN Irving Lewis Allen's CITY IN SLANG was the first book to mention my work and my name. In December 1992, I lectured briefly on "the Big Apple" before the American Name Society dinner (at the MLA convention in NYC). Irving Lewis Allen, Fred Cassidy, and Allen Walker Read were there--all three are now dead. William Safire or his assistant wasn't even kind enough to return a self-addressed stamped envelope. Allen wanted to meet me in the city, but I was doing parking tickets seven days a week back then, losing my parents and almost losing my home. I haven't been in contact with him since about 1995. In retrospect, I should have met up with him. I'd like to use CITY IN SLANG as a model for WINDY CITY WORDS that maybe Allen Metcalf might be interested in. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTER CURLER Not in OED. 20 September 1914, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 16: _3 cases of German Housewares Novelties_ ...Butter Curlers, 25c;... From mam at THEWORLD.COM Sun Apr 6 22:43:46 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:43:46 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406123127.024f44a0@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Douglas G. Wilson wrote: #> The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* #>become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something #>that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," #>"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to #>mind now is "Stengelese." # #I think of "bureaucratese" first. "X-ese" as a noun here = "language of X". # #Why is "-ese" more frequent in application to East Asia? There are #"Portuguese", "Viennese", "Faroese", etc., in Europe, but there are many #more "-eses" in Asia ("Shanghainese", "Pekinese", "Siamese", "Sundanese", #"Singhalese", etc., etc.): is it because East Asians (along with persons #from Vienna or the Faroes perhaps?) are/were despised? I would say no, it #is because places far from the Roman Empire had no names in Latin and #therefore no natural genitive endings, so they tend to take the 'default' #ending "-ensis", thus "-ese" (with some obvious exceptions where a name #looks like it could conform to another Latin paradigm, e.g., #"Korea"/"Korean"). And we do have "Milanese" -- does that come straight from Italian? -- and "Viennese". -- Mark A. Mandel From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 23:00:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:00:01 -0400 Subject: Buttermilk Pie (1940s); Buttercup Squash (1932); Butterhead Lettuce (1942) Message-ID: BUTTERMILK PIE DARE doesn't have "buttermilk pie." It appears to be regional. I'll check my Tennessee cookbooks. 9 November 1952, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. X32 ad: TENNESSEE COOK BOOK Packed with recipes for the kind of food that wins honors at county fairs! Nothing like it! Wonderful dishes--simple to follow--delicious to eat. Syllabub, Buttermilk Pie, Clinch Meat Cake, Hush Puppies--over 300 other favorites. Perfect gift, $1 postpaid. Pioneer Press Harriman, Tennessee (WORLDCAT database) Title: Buttermilk pie and lace veil : completing the story of our black mammy Author: Dillard, Lillian Madison Libraries with Item: "Buttermilk pie and lace v..."( Record for Item )Location Library Code AL AUBURN UNIV AAA AL SAMFORD UNIV LIBR ABF Libraries that Own Item: 2 Title: Buttermilk pie and lace veil : completing the story of our black mammy / Author(s): Dillard, Lillian Madison, 1880- Publication: Nashville, Tenn. : Parthenon Press, Year: 1940-1949? Description: [44] p. : ill. ; 21 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: African Americans in literature. Class Descriptors: LC: PS3507.I455 Responsibility: by Lillian Madison Dillard. Document Type: Book Entry: 19891005 Update: 20001211 Accession No: OCLC: 20443961 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERCUP SQUASH DARE has 1949 for "buttercup squash." 5 October 1952, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. X30: Newer than Butternut is the Buttercup squash. THis is round yet flattened and green. The orange flesh with a nutty flavor is reminiscent of Butternut. (WORLDCAT database) Title: Buttercup squash : its origin and use Author: Yeager, A. F Libraries with Item: "Buttercup squash : / its ..."( Record for Item )Location Library Code IL UNIV OF ILLINOIS UIU IL UNIV OF ILLINOIS, AGR ARL RECON RQF MA HARVARD UNIV, BOTANY LIBR BOH MD NATIONAL AGR LIBR AGL ND NORTH DAKOTA STATE UNIV LIBR NWQ Libraries that Own Item: 5 Title: Buttercup squash : its origin and use / Author(s): Yeager, A. F. 1892- (Albert Franklin),; Latzke, Esther,; 1896- Publication: [Fargo] : Agricultural Experiment Station, North Dakota Agricultural College, Year: 1932 Description: 19 p. : ill., 1 chart ; 23 cm. Language: English Series: Bulletin / North Dakota Agricultural Experiment Station ;; no. 258; Variation: Bulletin (North Dakota Agricultural Experiment Station (Fargo)) ;; no. 258. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Squashes. Cookery (Squash) Note(s): Includes recipes. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 630.7; NAL: 100 Responsibility: by A.F. Yeager and E. Latzke. Document Type: Book Entry: 19881013 Update: 20011028 Accession No: OCLC: 18603741 Database: WorldCat (JSTOR database) 1. The Composition of the Aerial Parts of the Summer Squash (Cucurbita Pepo) at Different Stages of Development C. W. Culpepper American Journal of Botany, Vol. 24, No. 9. (Nov., 1937), pp. 565-573. 2. The Present and Potential Service of Chemistry to Plant Breeding Albert F. Blakeslee American Journal of Botany, Vol. 26, No. 3. (Mar., 1939), pp. 163-172. 3. Chemically Induced Parthenocarpy in Certain Horticultural Plants, with Special Reference to the Watermelon C. Y. Wong Botanical Gazette, Vol. 103, No. 1. (Sep., 1941), pp. 64-86. 4. A Comparative Study of Different Methods of Determining Activities of Growth-Promoting Substances Felix G. Gustafson American Journal of Botany, Vol. 30, No. 8. (Oct., 1943), pp. 649-654. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERHEAD LETTUCE Not in OED or DARE. 11 January 1942, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. D10 ad: _Burpee's Suburban Garden_ (...) ...butterhead Lettuce, loosehead Lettuce,... From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Sun Apr 6 23:05:37 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:05:37 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd have thought the more immediate connection would have been to Fr. /-ais/, /-aise/, /-ois/, /-oise/? A Murie From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 00:37:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:37:43 -0400 Subject: Yannigan (23 February 1895) Message-ID: The New York Public Library has this gap in SPORTING LIFE from 1891-1895: Call # *ZAN-2413 Library has: v. 1-6, 9-16, 25-70; Apr. 15, 1883-Apr. 7, 1886, Apr. 13, 1887-Mar. 28, 1891, Mar. 1895-June 3, 1922. *ZZAN-1407 Library has: v. 1-6, 9-16, 25-70; Apr. 15, 1883-Apr. 7, 1886, Apr. 13, 1887-Mar. 28, 1891, Mar. 1895-June 3, 1922. MASTER NEGATIVE (of *ZAN-2413) Title Sporting life; the loyal champion of clean sport [microform]. Imprint Philadelphia [etc.] I was searching for "fan" a few years ago, so I bought copies of the microfilm reels where there are gaps. The microfilms showed themselves again when I was moving some books in my tiny studio apartment ("the Popik archives"), so I searched for "yannigan." I had previously posted the word from 25 March 1895. 23 February 1895, SPORTING LIFE, pg. 5, col. 2, "WASHINGTON NEWS": Charley Abbey will not be at fault if the Senators do not have the finest collection of bats in the business this season. Early last fall Treasurer Earl Wagner gave him an order on Tappan's for five dozen bats. He selected the sticks himself, cleared out a place in the dry room of the store, where he strung them on wires, and regularly twice a week since that time he has oiled them carefully. Said he the other day. "Well, if the Yannigans can't crack out singles, doubles, triples and homers with that lot of clubs they can't bat at all, and had better go to farming." Manager Schmelz has coined another new one. Referring to one or two of his new recruits the other day, he said, "They are Japanese"--meaning, they are all right. If the Washingtons did not already have a high-sounding title in the Senators they might be sailing under the name of "the Japs" this season. (Gerald Cohen may re-post this to SABR--ed.) From flanigan at OHIO.EDU Sun Apr 6 16:38:56 2003 From: flanigan at OHIO.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:38:56 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... At 09:19 AM 4/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: > The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* >become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something >that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," >"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to >mind now is "Stengelese." Casey Stengel was manager of the New York >Yankees during much (all?) of the 1950's. >During his press conferences he often talked in a way that had >reporters scratching their heads in confusion, and they referred to >his manner of speaking as "Stengelese." At one point the Yankees >fired Stengel for allegedly being too old to continue at the helm, >despite his remarkably successful record, and at his next press >conference Stengel spoke with complete clarity about the unfairness >of the action. Many of the reporters were surprised that he could >talk clearly after all. > >Gerald Cohen > > >>At 6:42 PM -0500 4/5/03, Billionbridges.com wrote: >>In a rather hysterical article written in Chinese I came across >>recently a Taiwanese person rants that the epithets in English >>denoting nationality which use the "ese" suffix are insulting >>and racist (where those which do not, such as "American" or >>"German" etc., are not). The author claims that "ese" was >>traditionally used by the English in adjectives describing unimportant, >>weak, strange or sickly things or people(s). He further relates >>personal anecdotes in which the term "Chinese" has been used >>by Americans in scorn. In his estimation "Chinese" is as insulting >>to, erm, Chinese as "nigger" is to African-Americans. >> >>Hypersensitive and misguided? Clearly. An ignorant crackpot? Well, >>the author has decided that in future when English-speakers ask >>where he's from he will answer the "Central Kingdom of Sinai." He >>is a Sinaian, he says. >> >>Nevertheless, leaving Egypt and the politics of the Taiwan Strait aside, >>I wonder where this author's conception that the "ese" suffix is insulting >>came from? Or is this completely baseless and/or irredeemably idiolectic? >> >>The link, for the Chinese-enabled: >>http://teacher.cyivs.cy.edu.tw/~hchung/despisechinese.htm >> >>Best, >>Don From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 02:06:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:06:38 -0400 Subject: Boniato (1949, 1952, 1986, 1987) Message-ID: OED has no entry for "boniato." There are over 1,000 Google hits for "boniato" and "potato." (JSTOR database) An Independent Farm in Cuba R. L. Tuthill Economic Geography, Vol. 25, No. 3. (Jul., 1949), pp. 201-210. (Pg. 207: Boniato (sweet potato).) The Feixes of Ibiza George M. Foster Geographical Review, Vol. 42, No. 2. (Apr., 1952), pp. 227-237. (Pg. 233: The most complex form is that prepared for the _boniato_ (Convolvulus batatas_), the main crop.) 1. In U.S. Produce, an Explosion of Exotica; By ELIZABETH SCHNEIDER; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 4, 1989; pg. C1, 2 pgs 2. LATIN CROPS SPUR A BOOM IN FLORIDA; Hispanic Farmers See Chance to Cash in on the Demand; By GEORGE VOLSKY, Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1987; pg. A16, 1 pgs ("'The Latin fruit and vegetable market is exploding like crazy'... Mr. Aguiar has begun planting malanga, a tuber much like a bland potato; boniato, a white-fleshed sweet potato; yucca, or sweet cassava; and calabaza, also called a Cuban squash.") 3. Tasting Cuba In Miami's Little Havana; A mix of Old and New World flavors; By SUSAN HELLER ANDERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 14, 1986; pg. XX14, 1 pgs ("Some dishes that should be samples are boniato relleno con tasajo, sweet potato stuffed with dried beef;..." From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Mon Apr 7 02:25:16 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:25:16 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" In-Reply-To: <604471B9.2DA40BAF.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: I have been having an argument with an acquaintance about which English word has the greatest number of meanings. I have been giving the standard OED answer of "set," but he insists it's "run" because in his dictionary, the American Heritage, "run" has more senses. In formulating my latest answer to him, it would help me to understand why the American Heritage comes out contrary to OED on this point. Would people interpret this as meaning that "run" is more polysemous in American English than it is in British English, or vice-versa with "set"? Or is the explanation that "set" has more obscure senses than "run" does, and that "set" therefore pulls ahead of "run" when a larger dictionary with more obscure senses is consulted? Or is there some other explanation? Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Dalecoye at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 02:30:25 2003 From: Dalecoye at AOL.COM (Dale Coye) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:30:25 EDT Subject: Article on British army slang in Iraq War Message-ID: >From the Glasgow Herald (the Scotsman and the Herald have excellent war coverage by the way) Army trained in linguistic manoeuvres When 'slotting' gets up close and personal IAN BRUCE with the Black Watch near Basra LIVING with the British Army can be a major linguistic challenge.Soldiers of all ranks talk in baffling acronyms. There are abbreviations for almost every facet of life, and in-house terms for anything not covered by Queen's Regulations."Just bimble down to the CP for a sitrep from the 2IC." In English, that translates as take a stroll down to the command post where the battalion's second in command will bring you up to date on what's happening.Rifles are gatts. Tank crews are trackies. Tankers call infantry crunchies, based on the sound they make when run over by 53 tons of armour. Fighter-bombers are fast-movers.Yet one strand of euphemism among the abbreviations and cynicism remains oddly consistent. In a frequently brutal world, no-one ever mentions the word "Kill". The vogue term for termination by gunfire, bayonet or grenade is "slotting". Snipers "ping" their targets, an expression with roots dating back to the trench warfare of the first world war. Enemies can be "wasted", "totalled" or "blown away", but never killed.Removing the name seems to make it easier to carry out the ultimate act of life taking. A sniper interviewed last week said he never thought of his victims as people, merely targets. It was his way of coping with the trauma of extinguishing another human's existence. Army training for the boys who have to go forward into harm's way is all about channelling aggression to achieve a result. But squeezing the trigger or thrusting a bayonet into an enemy's body remains an unnatural act for most.US studies of the performance of their comrade units in the second world war and in Korea showed that 15% of infantry "grunts" never fired their weapons at all in action. Another 20% deliberately aimed wide or high when confronted by an opponent whose face they could see.Despite quantum leaps in the technology of military hardware, the role of the frontline infantrymen has changed little in a millennium. His war is up close and personal Most fire-fights, once the artillery mortars, missiles and satellite guided bombs have done their work, still take place at less than 100yds range.The young soldiers who last week attacked the outer defences of Basra were shooting Iraqi militiamen at 30 yards or less, as rooftops, windows and street corners became frontline positions.Sergeant Duggie Dunbar, of Aberdeen, a Warrior vehicle commander, said: "Training under proximity of danger takes over once the rounds begin to fly. You concentrate on survival. Even the youngest of our lads responded instinctively. At that point, it's them or you."My backside was flapping like a rabbit's ears when I saw the first rocket propelled grenade rip past my turret. You just have to settle down and get on with the job. You can work out the moral rights or wrongs some other time."The high velocity rounds for the army's SA80 rifles are described as "5.5mm sleeping tablets". They are designed to provide the most permanent rest of all.When the "slotting" ends, the soldiers relax with "scran" or "scoff" - both terms for ration food - and then crawl gratefully into their "gonk bags", the bivouac sacks which allow them to sleep in the field.Anyway, now its time for another sitrep and then, hopefully a "womble" - a journey to the basic army commissary to pick up soft drinks, soap and toothpaste.No dramas, as they say. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 03:18:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:18:27 -0400 Subject: Cambric tea (1859, 1860, 1869) Message-ID: OED has 1888 for "cambric tea," U.S., hot milk and water, given to children in place of tea. Hm, maybe I can lecture on this at the Oxford Symposium this September: http://www.antoniotombolini.it/ilmercato/silvijadavidson/ofs2003.htm The earliest BROOKLYN EAGLE citation is 1887. I was surprised to see the NEW YORK TIMES beat it so badly: Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 2, 1859; pg. 3, 1 pgs Col. 4: _CAMBRIC TEA._ Read HEALTH AND DISEASE. H. B. PRICE, Publisher, No. 3 Everett House, New-York. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Mar 13, 1869, Iss. 0 1. THE MARKETS.; pg. 3, 1 pgs Pg. 3: They have had a "Hard Times party" in Wisconsin. The invitations were written on brown paper, and requested the guests to dress in their old clothes. Bean soup, crackers, and dried herrings constituted the refreshments, with "cambric tea" and water to wash them down. The guest walked home. Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Oct 20, 1860, Iss. 0 2. REARING CHILDREN.; pg. 8, 1 pgs Pg. 8: Should have nothing for supper but a single cup of warm drink, such as very weak tea of some kind, a cambric tea or warm milk and water, with one slice of cold bread and butter--nothing else. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 03:43:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:43:12 -0400 Subject: Carbohydrate (1853, 1858, 1865, 1868) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster have 1869 for "carbohydrate." Yep, we're doing the whole shooting match this month. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: Johnson, Samuel W. Title: How crops grow. Publication date: [c1868] Search results: 19 matches in full text Author: Parrish, Edward, 1822-1872. Title: A treatise on pharmacy ... By Edward Parrish ... Publication date: 1865. Search results: 9 matches in full text Author: Laurie, Joseph, d. 1865. Title: Elements of homoeopathic practice of physic, by J. Laurie, M.D ... Publication date: 1853. Search results: 1 match in full text Pg. 225: As soon, therefore, as osmose ceases, the maintenance of animal heat ceases, because after the carbohydrates and fat have been consumed, nothing remains but this splitting of nitrogenous matters;... (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) The Living age ... / Volume 57, Issue 731: pp. 641-720 p. 676 1 match of 'carbohydrate*' p. 683 1 match of 'carbohydrate*' in: Title: The Living age ... / Volume 57, Issue 731 Publisher: The Living age co. inc. etc. Publication Date: May 29, 1858 City: New York etc. Pages: 1042 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABR0102-0057&byte=197705792 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 04:33:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:33:25 -0400 Subject: Rabbit Food (1897, 1932); Roughage (1864, 1918) Message-ID: RABBIT FOOD OED has 1907 for "rabbit food" (food that rabbits eat). It then cites 1936 AMERICAN SPEECH for "rabbit food=lettuce." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Oct 1897; Vol. VOL. XXII.,, Iss. 0 Toil and Pleasure.; The Speaker ; Dora Roscoe.; pg. 352, 2 pgs Pg. 353: "'Au revoir, mesdames,' and a pleasant journey," she said, and taking her little sickle in one brown hand nad her sack for the rabbit food, she went her way down the steps, her sabots click-clacking on the cobble stones as she went. Finds Craze for Rough Foods Profitable to Physicians; Special Correspondence, THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 10, 1932; pg. E6, 1 pgs (Much of the indigestion and other stomach troubles now prevalent is attributed by Dr. Walter C. Alvarez of the Mayo Foundation Graduate School is too much roughage. The fad for what he calls rabbit food--spinach, greens, salads, raw fruit, celery, rutabaga, and bran foods has been overdone, he says, and he figures that the craze for roughage is worth $300 a month to any good stomach specialist.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ROUGHAGE OED has 1883 for "roughage," but then 1927 for the food sense used as above. (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES database) McRaven, Amanda Nantz. "Letter from Amanda Nantz McRaven to David Orlando McRaven, September 12, 1864" [ Note] [A. N. McRaven] Notes 28 Pulling fodder is a farm practice that has now about become extinct. As all old time farmers know, it was a process of augmenting the roughage for the livestock by pulling by hand the leaves or blades of corn, usually only those below the ear. It was tied by use of one of the blades and allowed to remain in the field several days in order to cure or dry. Two or three of these "hands," which was the usual amount a man could hold Results Bibliography McRaven, Amanda Nantz, 1820-1887, Letter from Amanda Nantz McRaven to David Orlando McRaven, September 12, 1864, in The Correspondence of David Olando McRaven and Amanda Nantz McRaven, 1864-1865. Brown, Louis A.. Raleigh, NC: North Carolina Division of Archives and History, 1949, pp. 58. [Bibliographic Details] [9-12-1864] S401-D008 (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Current Opinion (1913-1925), New York; Nov 1918; Vol. VOL. LXV, Iss. 0 Advertisement 2 -- No Title; pg. 341, 1 pgs ("Instead of relying on drugs, roughage and internal baths, take, as part of your food, substances that will keep bowel functions normal. There is _Fruitone, Nature's Own Remedy for Constipation and Bowel Trouble_...") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 05:13:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 01:13:25 -0400 Subject: Carotin, Carotene (1853); Beta-Carotene (1932, 1935) Message-ID: CAROTIN, CAROTENE OED and Merriam-Webster have 1861 MRS. BEETON for "carotin." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: Regnault, V. (Victor), 1810-1878. Title: Elements of chemistry: for the use of colleges, academies, and schools. Illus. by nearly seven hundred wood-cuts. Tr. from the French, by T. Forrest Betton ... and ed. with notes, by James C. Booth ... and William L. Faber. To which is appended a comparative table of French and English weights and measures. Publication date: 1853. Search results: 9 matches in full text --------------------------------------------------------------- BETA-CAROTENE Merriam-Webster has 1938 for "beta-carotene." (JSTOR database) Science News Science, New Series, Vol. 75, No. 1956. (Jun. 24, 1932), pp. 8a-10a. Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0036-8075%2819320624%293%3A75%3A1956%3C8a%3ASN%3E2.0.CO%3B2-4 Pg. 10: The eagerly awaited results of the biological work undertaken by Drs. F. P. Bowden and C. P. Snow, of the University of Cambridge, can not give the final proof that the carrot pigment, beta-carotene, has been changed into the growth-promoting vitamin A... Improved Methods for the Purification of the Common Carotenoids, and the Quantitative Measurement of Their Absorption Spectra Elmer S. Miller Botanical Gazette, Vol. 96, No. 3. (Mar., 1935), pp. 447-467. Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0006-8071%28193503%2996%3A3%3C447%3AIMFTPO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-C Pg. 448: Methods for the isolation of alpha and beta carotene and leaf xanthophyll are presented in this paper. (Nature 132:26 1933--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 06:02:40 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:02:40 -0400 Subject: Cellophane Noodles (1958); Glass Noodles (1984) Message-ID: CELLOPHANE NOODLES *A human bein's made of more than air With all that bulk, you're bound to see him there Unless that human bein' next to you Is unimpressive, undistinguished You know who... Cellophane Mister Cellophane Shoulda been my name Mister Cellophane 'Cause you can look right through me Walk right by me And never know I'm there! - Lyrics from the musical Chicago "Cellophane noodle" is not in the OED. There are about 3,400 Google hits for "cellophane noodles" and over 100 hits in the NEW YORK TIMES alone. Food News; Simple Decor Asset to New Restaurant; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 7, 1958; pg. 43, 1 pgs The Jade Palace, 860 Third Avenue (near Fifty-second Street)... Specialties on the a la carte dinner menu range in cost from chow fong shee (roast pork with sauteed Chinese vegetables and cellophane noodles) at $2.50 to lung har goi kow (chicken, lobster and Chinese vegetables) at $4.50. --------------------------------------------------------------- GLASS NOODLES "Glass noodle" is not in the OED. There are about 2,800 Google hits. This seems rather late and I'll try to do better. Chinese at the Mall; By PATRICIA BROOKS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 8, 1984; pg. CN23, 1 pgs Later, the duck meat was served as a separate course, garnished with crisp glass noodles, and mixed with strips of carrot, celery and bamboo. From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 7 06:39:46 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:39:46 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: In reply to Fred S's query, I would not recommend counting dictionary senses as an absolute way to determine relative polysemy. Reasons: 1. Different lexos and dict houses will handle the same word differently, as regards number of senses, and other things. Some lexos are "lumpers"; some are "splitters". 2. What is polysemy really? I think one might get a better sense for this by looking at the studies done in linguistics. Dictionaries do mirror linguistic reality, but they only mirror it. And some of those mirrors have not been cleaned recently, and have scratches and cracks in them. 3. What to count? In some houses (like Merriam), the verb and noun senses of a word will be in two different entries. Watch for that, too. Also, does one count the phrasal verbs that are built on words like _run_ and _set_, or not? I WOULD say that one can get some clue by comparing entries within a single dictionary. Look, say, at the Random House Unabridged for the American side, and at Shorter Oxford for the British. These are both fairly recently edited and are "unabridged" -- unlike big OED, many parts of which date back to Murray's time, or the Amer Heritage, which is not unabridged. The words _run_ and _set_ are good candidates, but I would also take a look at _take_. Frank Abate Frank Abate DRS (860) 349-5400 abatefr at earthlink.net From gcohen at UMR.EDU Mon Apr 7 13:47:43 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:47:43 -0500 Subject: "Yanigan" --Baseball researcher Peter Morris antedates it by two years (to 1893) Message-ID: Congratulations to Peter Morris for his further antedating of the now obsolete baseball term "Yannigan." Below my signoff is the message he sent to the research group for 19th Century Baseball. Gerald Cohen >From: "Peter Morris" >To: <19cBB at yahoogroups.com> >Cc: , >Subject: RE: [19cBB] "Yannigan"--Barry Popik spots earliest >attestation (23 Feb. 1895) >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:45:25 -0400 > >Here's an 1893 instance: > >Sporting News, July 22, 1893, "Baltimore's Yannigan Treadway with the hoarse >laugh and the round tanned face made a hit in Chicago." > >Peter Morris From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Apr 7 14:23:23 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:23:23 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas G. Wilson" To: Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > > The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* > >become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something > >that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," > >"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to > >mind now is "Stengelese." > > I think of "bureaucratese" first. "X-ese" as a noun here = "language of X". > > The suffix "-ese" is apparently the English reflex of Latin genitive ending > "-ensis", which is still used as a sort of default genitive in modern > Latin. So for example the organism Nocardia beijingensis is the Nocardia > "of Beijing", while Legionella pittsburghensis refers to the Legionella "of > Pittsburgh", while Pseudomonas wisconsinensis is named after Wisconsin, > etc. Similarly a University of Wisconsin seal might read "Universitatis > Wisconsinensis Sigillum" = "Seal of the University of Wisconsin". So the > long-term etymology does not support the "derogatory" thesis. > > Why is "-ese" more frequent in application to East Asia? There are > "Portuguese", "Viennese", "Faroese", etc., in Europe, but there are many > more "-eses" in Asia ("Shanghainese", "Pekinese", "Siamese", "Sundanese", > "Singhalese", etc., etc.): is it because East Asians (along with persons > from Vienna or the Faroes perhaps?) are/were despised? I would say no, it > is because places far from the Roman Empire had no names in Latin and > therefore no natural genitive endings, so they tend to take the 'default' > ending "-ensis", thus "-ese" (with some obvious exceptions where a name > looks like it could conform to another Latin paradigm, e.g., > "Korea"/"Korean"). Scotland was known to Rome, so a bacterium named after > Scotland for example is Actinobacillus scotiae (NOT "scotlandensis" or > whatever) using the established genitive ending for Scotia = Scotland. > Neither Japan nor Wisconsin (nor Congo) was known to Rome, so their names > lack declensions from classical Latin. [No doubt my perception is absurdly > oversimplified, and perhaps I'm completely in error on some of my examples. > The place-names in many cases actually came through French and other > Romance languages, I believe.] > > -- Doug Wilson A very enjoyable discussion of the suffix. I'm reminded of "Goan/Goanese" of which the -ese variant is considered insulting, or so I have heard. T.M.P. (www.paikeday.net) > From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Apr 7 14:38:12 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:38:12 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shapiro" To: Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 10:25 PM Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" > I have been having an argument with an acquaintance about which English > word has the greatest number of meanings. I have been giving the standard > OED answer of "set," but he insists it's "run" because in his dictionary, > the American Heritage, "run" has more senses. > > In formulating my latest answer to him, it would help me to understand why > the American Heritage comes out contrary to OED on this point. Would > people interpret this as meaning that "run" is more polysemous in American > English than it is in British English, or vice-versa with "set"? Or is > the explanation that "set" has more obscure senses than "run" does, and > that "set" therefore pulls ahead of "run" when a larger dictionary with > more obscure senses is consulted? Or is there some other explanation? > > Fred Shapiro Another explanation may be what I call "atomization of meaning" at the discretion of each lexicographer. A comparative study of the numbered meanings might substantiate this. T. M. Paikeday www.paikeday.net P.S. I just read F.A's detailed discussion of this and I agree with most of what Frank has to say. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS > Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Mon Apr 7 14:44:54 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:44:54 -0700 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: I would be curious to know how 'get' stacks up against 'run' and 'set.' A few years ago I saw a list of German words that can be used to translate 'get.' It was about 30 words. Does this have any relevence to the number of senses in English? Fritz >>> fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU 04/06/03 07:25PM >>> I have been having an argument with an acquaintance about which English word has the greatest number of meanings. I have been giving the standard OED answer of "set," but he insists it's "run" because in his dictionary, the American Heritage, "run" has more senses. In formulating my latest answer to him, it would help me to understand why the American Heritage comes out contrary to OED on this point. Would people interpret this as meaning that "run" is more polysemous in American English than it is in British English, or vice-versa with "set"? Or is the explanation that "set" has more obscure senses than "run" does, and that "set" therefore pulls ahead of "run" when a larger dictionary with more obscure senses is consulted? Or is there some other explanation? Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Mon Apr 7 15:40:46 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:40:46 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030406123818.00a98008@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided "Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. Peter Mc. --On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan wrote: > Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From douglas at NB.NET Mon Apr 7 16:08:17 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:08:17 -0400 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I've been asked whether the ancient Romans trilled the sound /r/. It seems to be a popular notion that they did. This is what I was taught in my ('classical', not ecclesiastical) Latin course, back in the day ... although pronunciation with English-type "r" was usual (and tolerated) in practice. Several Web sites assert this ('alveolar trill', I think they say usually ... generally likened to the "r" ("rr") in Spanish or to the "r" in Italian). I can't find any reasoning supporting the assertion, in a brief glance at immediately available general reference books and Web sites: is it just a guess based on the later Romance languages? -- Doug Wilson From e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 7 16:31:13 2003 From: e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET (Enid Pearsons) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:31:13 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: For those who don't have the Random House Unabridged, set has 119 numbered definitions; take has 126; run has 179. This count does not include various lettered subdefinitions. As I recall, when Random House first moved to a computerized conversion/typesetting system, run broke the initial conversion, stopping everything in its tracks, and had to be split before the magic could continue. This did not happen with any other word. Enid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Abate" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 2:39 AM Subject: Re: "Run" vs. "Set" > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Frank Abate > Subject: Re: "Run" vs. "Set" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > In reply to Fred S's query, I would not recommend counting dictionary senses as an absolute way to determine relative polysemy. Reasons: > > 1. Different lexos and dict houses will handle the same word differently, as regards number of senses, and other things. Some lexos are "lumpers"; some are "splitters". > > 2. What is polysemy really? I think one might get a better sense for this by looking at the studies done in linguistics. Dictionaries do mirror linguistic reality, but they only mirror it. And some of those mirrors have not been cleaned recently, and have scratches and cracks in them. > > 3. What to count? In some houses (like Merriam), the verb and noun senses of a word will be in two different entries. Watch for that, too. Also, does one count the phrasal verbs that are built on words like _run_ and _set_, or not? > > I WOULD say that one can get some clue by comparing entries within a single dictionary. Look, say, at the Random House Unabridged for the American side, and at Shorter Oxford for the British. These are both fairly recently edited and are "unabridged" -- unlike big OED, many parts of which date back to Murray's time, or the Amer Heritage, which is not unabridged. > > The words _run_ and _set_ are good candidates, but I would also take a look at _take_. > > Frank Abate > > Frank Abate > DRS > (860) 349-5400 > abatefr at earthlink.net > From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Apr 7 16:44:07 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:44:07 -0700 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407115610.04bd2220@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: >From Roland G. Kent's Sounds of Latin: a descriptive and historical phonology (1932): "no.59 R was a voiced liquid, trilled with the tip of the tongue behind the teeth while the sides of the tongue touched the palate. The roughness of the sound of r accounts for the avoidance of two successive r's by dissimilative change, as in late 'pelegrinus' (Fr. pelerin, pilgrim) for peregrinus, and by dissimilative loss, as in late "propietas" for "proprietas". R befor consonants and final was weak, perhaps as in English, and was occasionally omitted in writing." allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Douglas G. Wilson wrote: > >I've been asked whether the ancient Romans trilled the sound /r/. > > It seems to be a popular notion that they did. This is what I was taught in > my ('classical', not ecclesiastical) Latin course, back in the day ... > although pronunciation with English-type "r" was usual (and tolerated) in > practice. Several Web sites assert this ('alveolar trill', I think they say > usually ... generally likened to the "r" ("rr") in Spanish or to the "r" in > Italian). > > I can't find any reasoning supporting the assertion, in a brief glance at > immediately available general reference books and Web sites: is it just a > guess based on the later Romance languages? > > -- Doug Wilson > From jester at PANIX.COM Mon Apr 7 18:47:21 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:47:21 -0400 Subject: "deceptively" ? Message-ID: I was recently asked about the following situation: There is a task that looks very difficult to do, but is in fact very simple. Should this be described as "deceptively simple" or "deceptively difficult"? This puzzled me, so I've been looking through loads of evidence, collected and corpus-based (I haven't found anything useful in usage guides), and it seems that "deceptively simple/easy" and "deceptively difficult" both mean 'difficult, though appearing to be simple'. There doesn't seem to be a way, at least according to the evidence, of saying "easy, though appearing to be difficult." Thoughts? Larry, this seems up your alley. Jesse Sheidlower OED From mam at THEWORLD.COM Mon Apr 7 19:16:25 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:16:25 -0400 Subject: "deceptively" ? In-Reply-To: <20030407184721.GA14522@panix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Jesse Sheidlower wrote: #I was recently asked about the following situation: There is a task #that looks very difficult to do, but is in fact very simple. Should #this be described as "deceptively simple" or "deceptively difficult"? # #This puzzled me, so I've been looking through loads of #evidence, collected and corpus-based (I haven't found #anything useful in usage guides), and it seems that #"deceptively simple/easy" and "deceptively difficult" both #mean 'difficult, though appearing to be simple'. Have you found any patterns of information in distinctions beyond the choice of adjective? E.g., 1. The task is deceptively easy. 2. The task seems deceptively easy. 3. The instructions are deceptively simple. Absent other indications, I would assign part of the indication of "deceptiveness" to "seems" in (2) and to "instructions", as distinguished from the task itself, in (3). In both cases I would infer that the task is harder than it seems, and in (3) that the instructions conceal the difficulty of the task. -- Mark A. Mandel From mam at THEWORLD.COM Mon Apr 7 19:29:37 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:29:37 -0400 Subject: the language-sensitive centimeter Message-ID: The following text is copied from an item on sale at CVS (a chain drugstore): 18" FOLDING BARBECUE GRILL 254 square inches of cooking surface ASADOR DE 46 CM Superficie de coccio'n de 1638 cm^2 BARBECUE SUR PIED DE 45 CM Surface de cuisson de 1587.5 cm^2 Apparently the Spanish centimeter is the standard 2.54 per inch, but the French centimeter runs exactly 2.5 per inch. Spanish: sqrt(1638/254) = 2.5394+ 46/18 = 2.55+ French: sqrt(1587.5/254) = 2.5 45/18 = 2.5 -- Mark A. Mandel From Ittaob at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 20:22:28 2003 From: Ittaob at AOL.COM (Steve Boatti) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:22:28 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20the=20language-sensitive=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?centimeter?= Message-ID: It wouldn't surprise me if the discrepancy is due to differing government regulations on how to measure the "cooking surface." Steve Boatti sjb72 at columbia.edu From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 22:40:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:40:00 EDT Subject: "Windy City" in forthcoming ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY Message-ID: Gerald Cohen wrote the "Big Apple" entry for the ENYCLOPEDIA OF NEW YORK CITY (1995), by the New-York Historical Society. The late Irving Lewis Allen wrote the "Gotham" entry. The long-delayed ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY is a project of both the Chicago Historical Society and the Newberry Library. I gave my "Windy City" papers to the CHS seven years ago, and Gerald Cohen had given a COMMENTS ON ETYMOLOGY copy to Newberry. No one contacted me, so I just thought that I'd contact them. It looks like they're going to use my older work, without credit. Barry "Neither rain, nor snow--hey, what's up with the snow?" Popik Subj: Re: Fwd: "Windy City" in ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY Date: 4/7/2003 4:52:56 PM Eastern Standard Time From: knoxd at newberry.org To: Bapopik at aol.com Sent from the Internet (Details) Dear Mr. Popik, Thanks for your interest in the Encyclopedia of Chicago History. We are essentially done with the preparation of the A-Z entries for the Encyclopedia. Our entry entitled "Windy City" was assigned and completed several years ago, and our editors are satisfied with its contents. No one here was aware of your work when the entry was assigned, but had that not been the case, you certainly would have been a likely person to approach. I believe your work may be the basis for a reference in our entry to an early use of the term "Windy City" in 1885. The online discussions that I find to your research cite an 1885 _Cleveland Gazette_ headline. I'm almost reluctant to ask if you have since uncovered anything earlier, because we are far enough into the end stages of preparation that our counterparts at the University of Chicago Press will be ready to give us grief for considering modifications. But if you have earlier citations, we would of course prefer to include to the best information we can. Best wishes in all your researches, Douglas Knox Managing Editor Encyclopedia of Chicago History The Newberry Library 60 West Walton Street Chicago, IL 60610 (312) 255-3642 From gcohen at UMR.EDU Tue Apr 8 00:21:59 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:21:59 -0500 Subject: "Windy City" in forthcoming ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY Message-ID: The Comments on Etymology issue which I gave to the Newberry Library has been superseded by Barry's later work. If Barry would like to prepare a revised treatment--an up-to-date version--I would be honored to have it appear in the next available issue of Comments on Etymology. I would then distribute it at my own cost to the leading historical societies with an interest in Chicago. It looks like the Encyclopedia of Chicago History currently under preparation may be weak in its treatment of "The Windy City." Any treatment which does not reflect Barry's work is ipso facto not up-to-date. But that's water under the bridge. Let's aim for the next major work which will treat Chicago's history, and Barry's (likely) definitive article will be the basis of the treatment in that future book. Gerald Cohen Professor of Foreign Languages (Research specialty: Etymology) University of Missouri-Rolla At 6:40 PM -0400 4/7/03, Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:40:00 EDT >Reply-To: American Dialect Society >Sender: American Dialect Society >From: Bapopik at AOL.COM >Subject: "Windy City" in forthcoming ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY >Comments: cc: ASmith1946 at aol.com, gersh.kuntzman at verizon.net >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > > Gerald Cohen wrote the "Big Apple" entry for the ENYCLOPEDIA OF NEW YORK >CITY (1995), by the New-York Historical Society. The late Irving Lewis Allen >wrote the "Gotham" entry. > The long-delayed ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY is a project of both the >Chicago Historical Society and the Newberry Library. I gave my "Windy City" >papers to the CHS seven years ago, and Gerald Cohen had given a COMMENTS ON >ETYMOLOGY copy to Newberry. No one contacted me, so I just thought that I'd >contact them. > It looks like they're going to use my older work, without credit. > > Barry "Neither rain, nor snow--hey, what's up with the snow?" Popik > >Subj: Re: Fwd: "Windy City" in ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY >Date: 4/7/2003 4:52:56 PM Eastern Standard Time >From: knoxd at newberry.org >To: Bapopik at aol.com >Sent from the Internet (Details) > > > >Dear Mr. Popik, > >Thanks for your interest in the Encyclopedia of Chicago History. We are >essentially done with the preparation of the A-Z entries for the >Encyclopedia. Our entry entitled "Windy City" was assigned and completed >several years ago, and our editors are satisfied with its contents. > >No one here was aware of your work when the entry was assigned, but had >that not been the case, you certainly would have been a likely person to >approach. > >I believe your work may be the basis for a reference in our entry to an >early use of the term "Windy City" in 1885. The online discussions that I >find to your research cite an 1885 _Cleveland Gazette_ headline. I'm >almost reluctant to ask if you have since uncovered anything earlier, >because we are far enough into the end stages of preparation that our >counterparts at the University of Chicago Press will be ready to give us >grief for considering modifications. But if you have earlier citations, we >would of course prefer to include to the best information we can. > >Best wishes in all your researches, > >Douglas Knox >Managing Editor >Encyclopedia of Chicago History >The Newberry Library >60 West Walton Street >Chicago, IL 60610 >(312) 255-3642 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 01:30:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:30:32 -0400 Subject: Luncheon Meat (1895); Garlic Salt (1916); Bridge Rolls (1956) Message-ID: The Word Spy had "turducken" recently. We mentioned it here several times, and it wasn't just me. It was in the NEW YORK TIMES last November. McFedries is the best at what he does, but this is bizarre. --------------------------------------------------------------- LUNCHEON MEAT I had previous cited "luncheon meat" in a 1938 book. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; May 1895; Vol. Vol. XII,, Iss. 0 Advertisement 48 -- No Title; pg. 36, 1 pgs CURTICE LUNCHEON MEATS Chicken, Turkey, Ham, Tongue CURTICE BROTHERS CO., Rochester, N. Y. --------------------------------------------------------------- GARLIC SALT I had posted "celery salt" and might as well do this one. 24 December 1916, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM12: Among the products of the drying chamber now are a garlic salt, a grapefruit salt, and an orange salt, each containing 100 per cent of the taste and food value of the original. --------------------------------------------------------------- BRIDGE ROLLS John Ayto's GOURMET GUIDE TO FOOD AND DRINK mentions that "bridge rolls" were all over England. Perhaps others on the list can comment on that. "Bridge roll" is not in OED and not in any of my food dictionaries. The full text TIMES OF LONDON has it late. 24 December 1956, TIMES OF LONDON, pg. 9, col. C: ...Digestives, bridge rolls and Rich Teas... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 02:36:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:36:30 -0400 Subject: Crisphead Lettuce (1955); Delaware Grape (1857, 1861) Message-ID: CRISPHEAD LETTUCE No OED "crisphead" or "crisp head" entry, although there is a 1966 citation: "Crisphead or iceberg lettuce is the most widely grown type." 4 January 1942, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. D8: The Imperial strains of crisp head lettuce are not as abundant as other lettuces. (JSTOR database) Shattering in Lettuce-Its Inheritance and Biological Significance Thomas W. Whitaker; Gilbert D. McCollum Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club, Vol. 81, No. 2. (Mar. - Apr., 1954), pp. 104-110. Pg. 106: Individuals of the progenies from these plants were used in crosses with two varieties of commercial lettuce, Imperial 615 and White Paris Cos. Imperial 615 is a crisp head type suitable for winter and early spring culture (Bohn and Whitaker 1951). Pg. 110: _Bohn, G. W. & Whitaker, T. W._ 1951. Recently introduced varieties of head lettuce and methods used in their development. U. S. Dept. Agr. Cir. 881. Lettuce Industry of the Salinas Valley Paul F. Griffin; C. Langdon White Scientific Monthly, Vol. 81, No. 2. (Aug., 1955), pp. 77-84. Pg. 84 (NOTES): 1. Throughout the United States there has been a definite shift from the butter-head type of lettuce to the crisp-head type. --------------------------------------------------------------- DELAWARE GRAPE "Delaware grape" is not in OED. It's in FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION and has 153 Google hits. NEW-YORK WEEKLY TIMES.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Apr 24, 1857; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("THE DELAWARE GRAPE" is announced in the contents for the NEW-YORK WEEKLY TIMES of April 25th, but the next hit is not that--ed.) (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Oct 19, 1861, Iss. 0 Article 4 -- No Title; pg. 2, 1 pgs _THE DELAWARE GRAPE._ This variety deserves to be better known than it is among grape-growers. (...) Those we have seen come from the nursery of Mr. Edward Tatnall, near Wilmington, Delaware, where young plants may be obtained. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 03:09:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:24 -0400 Subject: Summer Crookneck Squash (1839, 1857) Message-ID: OED has this under "summer crookneck," with its 1890 citation indicating that there's better: "Summer crooknecks appeared in our garden catalogues in 1828." The first citation here is "winter crook neck," not "summer crookneck." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Maine Farmer and Journal of the Useful Arts (1833-1842), Augusta; Oct 19, 1839; Vol. 7, Iss. 40 Acknowledgements; Anonymous; pg. 313, 1 pgs ("These marrow squashes are goof _inventions_ as Sancho Panza said by sleep. They grow well and ripen perfectly in our climate and are preferred by most people to the old winter crook neck, which is rather precarious in this latitude." NEW - YORK LIVE STOCK MARKET.; Prepared every week, expressly for the NEW-YORK DAILY, SEMI-WEEKLY, and WEEKLY TIMES, by a careful and experienced Reporter. ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 10, 1857; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("Pumpkins are becoming scarce and high, especially the cheese and crookneck varieties.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 03:43:18 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:43:18 -0400 Subject: Crab Boil & Fish Boil & Shrimp Boil (1959) Message-ID: Not one of these "boils" is in the OED. Some Google hits: CRAB BOIL--4,560 FISH BOIL--2,090 SHRIMP BOIL--3,730 Picture of a Good Cook: One Who Anticipates; Photographer Puts Theory to Work On Week-End; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 20, 1961; pg. 30, 1 pgs ("1 tablespoon crab boil (purchased from the grocery spice shelf)") Fine Time For Shrimp; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 6, 1959; pg. SM28, 1 pgs ("Shrimp may be cooked either with or without their shells. However, there is no doubt that the shell contributes a welcome flavor. There is an excellent commercially purchased spice melange that can be used for flavoring shrimp to be simmered. It is packaged as shrimp spice or crab boil and contains several ingredients, such as cassis, not commonly found on the home spice shelf.") (WORLDCAT database) Title: Door County's cooking of fish boil and accompaniments Author: Newkirk, Irene Libraries with Item: "Door County's cooking of ..." WI WINNEFOX LIBR SYST GZK Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Door County's cooking of fish boil and accompaniments / Author(s): Newkirk, Irene. Publication: [S.l. : s.n.], Edition: 2nd ed. Year: 1984 Description: [19] leaves : ill. ; 13 x 20 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery (Fish). Cookery, American -- Wisconsin -- Door County. Note(s): Cover title: Door County fish boil and accompaniments./ Title on prelim. t.p.: Door County cooking fish boil & accompaniments. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 641.692 Other Titles: Door County fish boil and accompaniments.; Door County cooking fish boil & accomopaniments. Responsibility: written & complied by Irene Newkirk ; drawings by Flora M. Langlois. Document Type: Book Entry: 19880610 Update: 19911220 Accession No: OCLC: 18065375 Database: WorldCat Title: Crab boil Author: Graziano, Phil Libraries with Item: "Crab boil" LA SOUTHEASTERN LOUISIANA UNIV LSH LA STATE LIBR OF LOUISIANA LSL Libraries that Own Item: 2 Title: Crab boil Author(s): Graziano, Phil. ; Wallace, L. E. Publication: [Natalbany, La.] :; L.E. Wallace Productions, Year: 1990s Description: 1 videocassette (20 min.) :; sd., col. ;; 1/2 in. Language: English Series: Cooking with Murphy's; Abstract: Chef Phil Graziano of Murphy's Restaurant demonstrates how to boil crabs. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery (Crabs) Crabs. System Info: VHS. Note(s): Title from cassette label./ Participants: Hosted by Phil Graziano. Responsibility: produced by L.E. Wallace. Material Type: Projected image (pgr); Videorecording (vid); VHS tape (vhs) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 20001006 Update: 20010625 Accession No: OCLC: 45131223 Database: WorldCat (PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE) Word Mark CAJUN CRAB BOIL Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: restaurant services. FIRST USE: 19960900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19960900 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75207016 Filing Date December 2, 1996 Owner (APPLICANT) Pearl's Bricktown, Inc. CORPORATION OKLAHOMA 827 N.W. 63rd Street, Suite 102 Oklahoma City OKLAHOMA 73116 Attorney of Record E HARRISON GILBERT III Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date September 26, 1997 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 05:00:04 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:00:04 -0400 Subject: Crab Imperial (1944); Cube Steak (1934) Message-ID: CRAB IMPERIAL Not in OED. They don't take crabs. News of Food; Restaurant Offers Tasty Dishes of Seafood That May Be Ordered for Dining at Home; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1944; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("The King of the Sea, that celebrated fish restaurant at 879 Third Avenue, near Fifty-third Street, started out eight years ago... "_Crab Imperial a Specialty_ "Amon the many specialties, including Florida pompano, and New England lobster, is crab imperial. Lumps of crabmeat are sauted in butter, seasoned with mayonnaise and capers, piled incredibly high in crab shells--three inches deep, by estimate--then thickly topped with crumbs and oven-browned. These cost 90 cents apiece...") --------------------------------------------------------------- CUBE STEAK Also not in OED. Classified Ad 14 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 1, 1934; pg. RE10, 1 pgs ("SPECIALTY SALESMEN...to introduce fully patented genuine 'Cube' Steak machines to markets, restaurants, institutions; commission basis. Write Cube Steak Machine Co., P. O. Box 506, Milford, Conn.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 05:25:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:25:28 -0400 Subject: Grease Mop/Fat Mop & Fat Mat Message-ID: "Grease Mop" and "Fat Mop" are two names for the same thing. Use them on Freedom Fries. These are recent additions to the kitchen--not that the Popik archives has a kitchen. FACTIVA articles are followed by trademarks. DON HANNULA 760 words 7 February 1986 The Seattle Times THIRD A10 English (Copyright 1986) EARLY in my newspaper career, a few of us on The Yakima Morning Herald dared to eat at a hole-in-the-wall restaurant affectionately known as ``Greasy Henry's.''(...) Atop a long grill at Henry's sat one of those cans of melted shortening _ or something like that _ with the wooden handle of a miniature grease mop protruding. With a ceremonial flair that would do an archbishop proud, Henry would anoint the hot grill with a flick of the dripping grease mop. Then he'd toss on a handful of hash browns. The Press-Enterprise 1,173 words 28 November 1997 The Press-Enterprise Riverside, CA ALL ZONES AA01 English (Copyright 1997) (...) Another way to de-fat a broth is to use paper towels as a "fat mop." Lay these on the surface of the soup to absorb the fat. Just be careful if the soup is hot. FOOD 101 Little mop soaks up the grease ROBERT L. WOLKE Special to the Register 325 words 28 May 2000 The Orange County Register MORNING 05 English Copyright (c) 2000 Bell & Howell Information and Learning Company. All rights reserved. Your soup, stock or stew is almost done. You trimmed off most of the fat before adding the meat, but your pot now looks as if the Exxon Valdez had run aground in it. The recipe now says, "skim the fat." All you have to do is grab a spoon and scoop off the top layer without removing any of the underlying liquid, right? Yeah, sure. For one thing, you need a neurosurgeon's steadiness of hand and a scalpel-sharp spoon to control your depth-of-scoop precisely. What do you do? There are several conventional-wisdom methods but I'll let you on to one tool I'll bet you never heard of. It's a mini mop -- yes, a mop -- that magically absorbs fat. You just brush it across the surface of your soup or stew and it will soak up the oil without absorbing the watery liquid. It goes by various unappetizing names, including Fat Mop and Grease Mop, and is available for about $6 at savvy kitchenware stores or by mail from www.happycookers.com. Fat Mop and Fat Mat The Grand Rapids Press 160 words 25 March 2001 The Grand Rapids Press All Editions L1 English (Copyright 2001) Cost: Fat Mop -- $5.95, Fat Mat -- $4.95 Where available: Clever Cook, 6469 28th St. SE, Grand Rapids What they claim to do: They soak up grease like magic from cooked foods and claim to be dishwasher safe. The Fat Mop skims fat from soups, stews and fried foods. The Fat Mat soaks up grease from food such as bacon and French fries, you normally would drain on paper towels. Word Mark FAT MOP Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 021. US 002 013 023 029 030 033 040 050. G & S: absorbent polypropylene material for removing grease from food Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75317778 Filing Date July 1, 1997 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition December 1, 1998 Owner (APPLICANT) AMBEP, INC. CORPORATION BY CHANGE OF NAME DELAWARE 16825 NORTHCHASE DRIVE SUITE 1600 HOUSTON TEXAS 77060 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record J MIKE AMERSON Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "MOP" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date August 24, 2000 Word Mark FAT MAT Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 021. US 002 013 023 029 030 033 040 050. G & S: absorbent polypropylene material for removing grease from food Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75317777 Filing Date July 1, 1997 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition December 1, 1998 Owner (APPLICANT) Oil Mop, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 221 Rue De Jean Lafayette LOUISIANA 70508 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record J MIKE AMERSON Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "MAT" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date August 24, 1999 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 05:53:50 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:53:50 -0400 Subject: Garlic Bread (1939, 1946) Message-ID: OED has 1951. I'll look for "garlic bread" in the Clementine Paddleford columns that I copied from the NEW YORK HERALD-TRIBUNE. She reviewed plenty of Italian restaurants in New York City. Garlic bread has 109,000 Google hits! Garlic bread tastes great and works well on a date with female vampire slayers. FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION (1995, 2001 by Sharon Herbst) _Garlic Bread_ Said to have been invented during the late 1940s boom of Italian-American restaurants, garlic bread consists of Italian or French bread slices, spread on both sides with GARLIC BUTTER and heated in the oven. There are many variations, including bread brushed with olive oil and sprinkled with minced garlic and herbs. It can also be broiled or grilled. News of Food; New Cafe's Food and Its Table Settings Bring Back Memories of Italian Summers; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 3, 1950; pg. 19, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 15, 1949; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 23, 1949; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 17 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 16, 1949; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 28 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 30, 1947; pg. 29, 1 pgs FOOD; Sunday Night Suppers; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1946; pg. 134, 1 pgs ("She (Jeanne Own, secretary of the Wine and Food Society of New York--ed.) also thought some hors d'oeuvres of anchovies and garlic bread might be appealing...") For Gourmets and Others: A Venezuelan Adventure; Introduction of the World's Fair Visitor to Hallacas And Other Dishes, at Once Rich and Strange, From the Tropics; By CHARLOTTE HUGHES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 18, 1939; pg. 49, 1 pgs ("Ingredients for the meat mixture, enough for ten hallacas, are...a garlic bread...") From flanigan at OHIO.EDU Tue Apr 8 14:13:18 2003 From: flanigan at OHIO.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:13:18 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <111927.1049704846@[10.218.201.115]> Message-ID: Unlike the other terms cited, "motherese" isn't pejorative; it's the term child language scholars use for the kind of simplified and affectionate speech that mothers (and others) use with babies. It's also called "baby talk" and, more recently and pc-ishly, "caretaker speech." "Teacherese" wasn't a good cite on my part; "educationese" is better (though "teacher talk" has been used). At 08:40 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided >"Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a >meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries >a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, >educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by >virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay >reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as >probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across >them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard >before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. > >The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that >this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which >simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. > >Peter Mc. > >--On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan > wrote: > >>Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... > > > >**************************************************************************** > Peter A. McGraw > Linfield College * McMinnville, OR > pmcgraw at linfield.edu From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Tue Apr 8 14:54:41 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:54:41 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408100906.00b16de8@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: Beverly writes, >Unlike the other terms cited, "motherese" isn't pejorative; it's the term >child language scholars use for the kind of simplified and affectionate >speech that mothers (and others) use with babies. It's also called "baby >talk" and, more recently and pc-ishly, "caretaker speech." "Teacherese" >wasn't a good cite on my part; "educationese" is better (though "teacher >talk" has been used). I have the feeling that while not pejorative, "motherese" is somewhat jocularly intended, as if this were a technical register or jargon practiced by mothers, such as "journalese" or the others we've been discussing. "Journalese" is well over a century old-- 1882 Pall Mall G. 6 Apr. 2/1 Translated from 'Journalese' into plain English. [OED] --and I think possibly the model for the others. The OED provides a 1975 first cite for "motherese" has, from the developmental psycholinguist Elissa Newport (who may or may not have coined it) and (attention Jesse et al.!) "bureaucratese" has no listing at all in the OED. Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). [The OED doesn't provide the "Portugueece" option, but I know I can get it.] > >At 08:40 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided >>"Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a >>meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries >>a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, >>educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by >>virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay >>reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as >>probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across >>them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard >>before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. >> >>The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that >>this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which >>simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. >> >>Peter Mc. >> >>--On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan >> wrote: >> >>>Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... >> >> >> >>**************************************************************************** >> Peter A. McGraw >> Linfield College * McMinnville, OR >> pmcgraw at linfield.edu From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Tue Apr 8 14:59:55 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:59:55 -0400 Subject: Soda Straw Message-ID: Early in my career as a bird watcher, I went to a camera store to price telescopes. The large ones were expensive and looked like a pain to carry. I asked the salesman about a small, cheap one, an inch or so in diameter. He wanted to sell me one of the expensive ones, but no doubt truthfully said, well, for one thing, using a small telescope like this one is like looking through a soda straw. This would have been in the early 1980s, or thereabouts. Not realizing at the time that 20 years later philological exactitude would demand a verbatim quotation, I stored away just the image used, not the exact words. In fact, I didn't buy any telescope that day or since. By the way: some of you may recall that Samuel Pepys discontinued his diary after 10 years, in his mid 30s, because he was having problems with his eyes and decided that writing the diary was a source of eye strain that he could eliminate. At one point, he experimented with reading through a tube, I believe lensless. I recall reading a modern writer on his diary saying that given the modern diagnosis of his condition, if he had flatted the tube somewhat it would have helped his problem. Upon demand I will check William Matthews' edition of the diary -- which is in my bedroom -- to see if I can locate this passage and what Matthews says about it. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Shapiro Date: Friday, April 4, 2003 9:05 pm Subject: Re: Soda Straw > On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: > > > What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning > "narrow" as in > > the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" > (earliest I've > > found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." > > Nexis has the following from Defense Daily, Nov. 3, 1997: > > Using its high resolution video camera, the Lockheed Martin > [LMT] P-3 was to provide a "soda straw view" of moving targets and > identify those targets as friend or foe, said Lt. Cmdr. David Acton, > the intelligence officer for Amphibious Squadron 11. > > Fred Shapiro > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF > QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale > University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu > http://quotationdictionary.com------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------- > From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 8 15:21:20 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:21:20 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." Peter Mc. --On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 10:54 AM -0400 Laurence Horn wrote: > Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact > that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, > Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless > (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From flanigan at OHIO.EDU Tue Apr 8 16:06:46 2003 From: flanigan at OHIO.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:06:46 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree, Larry, and Newport is the first one I've seen use "motherese" too. I think it was coined (by whoever) to avoid the ambiguity of "baby talk"--the talk of mothers or the talk of babies? In fact, a well-known video on child language is titled "Baby Talk," suggesting the latter interpretation. But many, if not most, cultures have a "baby talk" register used by adults to infants, so an unambiguous term was needed. I don't think it was meant to be jocular, but it was also not intended to be a technical term but rather a loose configuration of simplified sounds, words, and grammar (not to be confused with UNgrammatical speech though). At 10:54 AM 4/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Beverly writes, > >>Unlike the other terms cited, "motherese" isn't pejorative; it's the term >>child language scholars use for the kind of simplified and affectionate >>speech that mothers (and others) use with babies. It's also called "baby >>talk" and, more recently and pc-ishly, "caretaker speech." "Teacherese" >>wasn't a good cite on my part; "educationese" is better (though "teacher >>talk" has been used). > > >I have the feeling that while not pejorative, "motherese" is somewhat >jocularly intended, as if this were a technical register or jargon >practiced by mothers, such as "journalese" or the others we've been >discussing. "Journalese" is well over a century old-- > >1882 Pall Mall G. 6 Apr. 2/1 Translated from 'Journalese' into plain >English. [OED] > >--and I think possibly the model for the others. The OED provides a >1975 first cite for "motherese" has, from the developmental >psycholinguist Elissa Newport (who may or may not have coined it) and >(attention Jesse et al.!) "bureaucratese" has no listing at all in >the OED. > >Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact >that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, >Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless >(rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). >[The OED doesn't provide the "Portugueece" option, but I know I can get it.] > >> >>At 08:40 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>>Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided >>>"Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a >>>meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries >>>a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, >>>educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by >>>virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay >>>reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as >>>probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across >>>them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard >>>before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. >>> >>>The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that >>>this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which >>>simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. >>> >>>Peter Mc. >>> >>>--On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan >>> wrote: >>> >>>>Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... >>> >>> >>> >>>**************************************************************************** >>> Peter A. McGraw >>> Linfield College * McMinnville, OR >>> pmcgraw at linfield.edu From e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 8 17:40:13 2003 From: e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET (Enid Pearsons) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:40:13 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Affectation? Puh-leeze (or Police?) Both voiced and voiceless pronunciations for -ese have been considered normal variants for Chinese, Japanese, etc., by American dictionaries since at least the _Century Dictionary & Cyclopedia_ (1889). You can find them in current versions of RHD, AHD, MW3, NOAD, and WNW. Granted, this is not so in the few British dictionaries I've checked, old and new, which show only voiced. Enid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. McGraw" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "Peter A. McGraw" > Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always > strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? > I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard > "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." > > Peter Mc. > > --On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 10:54 AM -0400 Laurence Horn > wrote: > > > Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact > > that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, > > Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless > > (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). > > > > **************************************************************************** > Peter A. McGraw > Linfield College * McMinnville, OR > pmcgraw at linfield.edu > From RonButters at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 19:02:30 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:02:30 EDT Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Did anyone mention the fact that Milton used the term "Piemontese" in a sonnet (1655) that decries the massacre of some Italian protestants by "bloody Piemontese, that roll'd / Mother with infant down the rocks." Clearly, Milton didn't think much of these folks whom he -esed. Don't know, though, if he'd have written "Piemonters" if he'd liked them. From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Tue Apr 8 19:09:51 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:09:51 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Isn't "piemontese" just taken straight from the Italian? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 3:02 PM Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: RonButters at AOL.COM > Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > Did anyone mention the fact that Milton used the term "Piemontese" in a > sonnet (1655) that decries the massacre of some Italian protestants by > "bloody Piemontese, that roll'd / Mother with infant down the rocks." > > Clearly, Milton didn't think much of these folks whom he -esed. Don't know, > though, if he'd have written "Piemonters" if he'd liked them. > From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Tue Apr 8 23:25:41 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:25:41 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Peter: > On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always > strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? > I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard > "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was *very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. Anne G From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 8 23:25:05 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:25:05 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <011601c2fe26$2cb61ce0$d6514843@annehpbrww9plk> Message-ID: A colleague of mine in Linguistics here at Ball State regularly says "Chineece" and "Japaneece". I've always attributed it to her Connecticut background, although what that would have to do with it I can't imagine. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Anne Gilbert Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 6:26 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Peter: > On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always > strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? > I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard > "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was *very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. Anne G From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 8 23:47:40 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:47:40 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <011601c2fe26$2cb61ce0$d6514843@annehpbrww9plk> Message-ID: --On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 4:25 PM -0700 Anne Gilbert wrote: > Peter: > >> On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always >> strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, >> maybe?? I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never >> heard "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." > > Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm > curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was > *very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from > somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. > Anne G Y'know, I'm not sure where all I've heard it. I've had it vaguely associated in my mind with New York speech, but in recent years I've heard it often enough (though still infrequently enough that I notice) here in the Northwest as well, and from people who otherwise didn't sound like New Yorkers. I haven't had the opportunity to find out if those I've heard here came from elsewhere, and if so, where. I'm not sure how I connected it with New York--it's not one of the features that comes immediately to mind when I "play back" New York speech to myself. Maybe some New Yorkers will confirm or deny that it's common there. Peter Mc. **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Wed Apr 9 00:33:18 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:33:18 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Peter: > Y'know, I'm not sure where all I've heard it. I've had it vaguely > associated in my mind with New York speech, but in recent years I've heard > it often enough (though still infrequently enough that I notice) here in > the Northwest as well, and from people who otherwise didn't sound like New > Yorkers. I haven't had the opportunity to find out if those I've heard > here came from elsewhere, and if so, where. I'm not sure how I connected > it with New York--it's not one of the features that comes immediately to > mind when I "play back" New York speech to myself. Maybe some New Yorkers > will confirm or deny that it's common there. Interesting. My father was born in Missouri, but spent most of life in and around the Pacific Northwest. However, he went to school "back East", at a time when this part of the country was still more or less considered "the Wild West", and people from this part of the country were considered vaguely "uncouth". I suspect he picked up "eece" at college, just as he picked up "eyther" and "nyether"(and my mother did too, coming from a similar background and ending up at an East Coast women's college), because he thought it souinded more "refined". Otherwise, he sounded pretty "Pacific Northwest-y" to me. Anne G From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 01:03:08 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:03:08 EDT Subject: Grease Mop/Fat Mop & Fat Mat Message-ID: In a message dated 4/8/03 1:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > These are recent additions to the kitchen--not that the Popik archives has a > kitchen. You have a talking dining room table yet no kitchen? I can just imagine what that dining room table will have to say. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 01:17:35 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:17:35 EDT Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/8/03 1:41:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET writes: > Both voiced and voiceless > pronunciations for -ese have been considered normal variants for Chinese, > Japanese, etc., by American dictionaries since at least the _Century > Dictionary & Cyclopedia_ (1889). A. K. McRae, Jr _Worcester's Comprehensive Dictionary, Revised Edition_ Philadelphia: Lippincott, copyright dates of 1860 ,1871, 1884, 1888, 1907 (which I picked up in a used-book store) has "Chinese" and "Japanese" with /z/ rather than /s/. Oddly "Portuguese" is not in the dictionary, nor are "legalese" or "bureaucratese". - Jim Landau From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 9 01:45:27 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:45:27 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Born and raised in New York. And I say only "Chineece," "Japaneece". Never even thought twice about this until the ads-l discussion. Gerald Cohen >At 4:47 PM -0700 4/8/03, Peter A. McGraw wrote: >--On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 4:25 PM -0700 Anne Gilbert > wrote: > >>Peter: >> >>>On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always >>>strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, >>>maybe?? I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never >>>heard "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." >> >>Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm >>curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was >>*very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from >>somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. >>Anne G > >Y'know, I'm not sure where all I've heard it. I've had it vaguely >associated in my mind with New York speech, but in recent years I've heard >it often enough (though still infrequently enough that I notice) here in >the Northwest as well, and from people who otherwise didn't sound like New >Yorkers. I haven't had the opportunity to find out if those I've heard >here came from elsewhere, and if so, where. I'm not sure how I connected >it with New York--it's not one of the features that comes immediately to >mind when I "play back" New York speech to myself. Maybe some New Yorkers >will confirm or deny that it's common there. > >Peter Mc. From douglas at NB.NET Wed Apr 9 02:21:25 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:21:25 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Born and raised in New York. And I say only "Chineece," "Japaneece". >Never even thought twice about this until the ads-l discussion. I never thought about it either: I would say only "-eze" in these words. OED likes my /z/; my other dictionaries seem to allow both /s/ and /z/. Now that I think of it I have heard "Portuguese" with /s/, and I suppose I must have heard "Chinese" so too but I didn't notice it. Note the old-fashioned "Chinee"/"Portuguee" = "Chinese person"/"Portuguese person", 'erroneous' back-formations from the plurals "Chinese" = "Chinees", "Portuguese" = "Portuguees" (presumably with /z/). -- Doug Wilson From dwhause at JOBE.NET Wed Apr 9 02:34:13 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:34:13 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Midwest (Illinois) out of rural Pennsylvania parents, Chinese and Japanese have the /z/ while Portugese has the /s/. Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas G. Wilson" I never thought about it either: I would say only "-eze" in these words. OED likes my /z/; my other dictionaries seem to allow both /s/ and /z/. Now that I think of it I have heard "Portuguese" with /s/, and I suppose I must have heard "Chinese" so too but I didn't notice it. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 08:00:08 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:00:08 EDT Subject: Crab Louis (SF Poodle Dog?); Shell Shock & Awe Message-ID: SHELL SHOCK & AWE & MISC. Some notes between days of parking tickets. SHELL SHOCK & AWE--This week's VILLAGE VOICE (www.villagevoice.com) has a cover story on "shell shock and awe" that you might want to read. That article and the issue itself have the usual Bush=Hitler bashing that make it almost unreadable. LOATHSOME NEW YORKERS--This week's NEW YORK PRESS (www.nypress.com) has a letter to the editor that comments that William Safire neither lives nor works in New York City (responding to his placement in the "Fifty Most Loathsome New Yorkers" article). Plus, in a NEW YORK PRESS "Best of" issue, Safire was voted Best New York Times Columnist....You can say this much about the PRESS and the VOICE--they're free. GARLIC BREAD--I should have mentioned that I have a 1935 "garlic bread" and more garlic in the ADS-L archives. AOL MESSAGES--I just got three--one "FROM A SKINNY PERSON TO A FAT PERSON" and two annoying messages on how to block annoying messages. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- CRAB LOUIS I requested "turkey," "cioppino," and "crab Louis" from the Peter Tamony archives. The "cioppino" papers were voluminous, cost over $20, and added nothing about its origin. See the ADS-L archives for letters to Clementine Paddleford about "crab Louis," asserting a Seattle origin...The classic French restaurant "Poodle Dog" existed in San Francisco from 1850-1922, killed by Prohibition. There's a lack of good Google info on Poodle Dog chef Louis Coutard. I'll look him up in my databases (American Periodical Series, New York Times). 12 June 1952, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE: One source says that it is a Washington State specialty. Helen Evans Brown, in her excellent cookbook, "West Coast Cookery," writes that Crab Louis was served in Solari's, a San Francisco restaurant, in 1914. (John Mariani's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK mentions Solari's and the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco, but not the Poodle Dog--ed.) 29 June 1954, SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER, pg. 19, cols. 1-2, Herb Caen: ...Louis Coutard, the chef at the old Old Poodle Dog, concocted the delicacy that still bears his name--Crab Louis. SAN FRANCISCO--CITY ON GOLDEN HILLS (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1967) by Herb Caen and Don Kingman: Pg. 78: Louis Coutard, the chef at the old Poodle Dog, proudly concocting the delicacy that still bears his name--crab Louis. 25 September 1977, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, Herb Caen: Major minor mystery: Crab Louis, the immortal invention of Chef Louis Coutard at the very old Old Poodle Dog, is known as Crab Coutard in London and "Pardonnez-moi?" in Paris. 30 July 1978, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, Herb Caen: Louis Coutard, the old-time Poodle Dog chef who invented Crab Louis, must whirl like a dervish every time a person orders his dish and the waiter or waitress asks, "What kind of dressing?" It's the dressing, a variation on Thousand Island, that makes the salad a Looey. From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Apr 9 08:53:54 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:53:54 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Born and raised in New York. And I say only "Chineece," "Japaneece". >Never even thought twice about this until the ads-l discussion. As opposed to Gerald, I was also born and raised in NY and only say Chineze and Japaneze, etc. Rima From kretzsch at ARCHES.UGA.EDU Wed Apr 9 13:26:10 2003 From: kretzsch at ARCHES.UGA.EDU (Bill Kretzschmar) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:26:10 -0400 Subject: ACH/ALLC 2003 Early Registration Deadline Extended Message-ID: The deadline for early registration for ACH/ALLC 2003 has been extended to April 15. All those who are thinking of coming to Athens for the meeting should consider signing up now, before the rates change. April 15 is also the target date for registration for training workshops at the conference. See the conference web site for full registration details (including the cancellation policy), the full conference and workshop program, and online registration and lodging reservations. Bill Kretzschmar Professor of English and Linguistics Dept. of English Phone: 706-542-2246 University of Georgia Fax: 706-583-0027 Athens, GA 30602-6205 Atlas Web Site: us.english.uga.edu From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 16:57:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:57:38 EDT Subject: "Mevushal" wine Message-ID: "Mevushal" is not in the revised OED. From the NEW YORK SUN, 9 April 2003, "Beyond Manischewitz: From Sauvignon Blanc to Bordeaux, Kosher Wines forthe Passover Table," pg. 18, col. 2: There are two types of kosher wine--_mevushal_, which is pasteurized (and can be handled by the general public and remain kosher), and non-mevushal. Traditionally, mevushal wines were boiled for purification. About 20 years ago, Peter Stern, a winemaker at Baron Herzog Wine Cellars, developed "flash pasteurization" at the University (Col. 3--ed.) of California at Davis. This is from Google Groups: From: Gillian (Gillian137 at comcast.not) Subject: Re: Kosher salt and kosher wine View: Complete Thread (38 articles) Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking Date: 2003-02-10 20:17:11 PST PENMART01 wrote:> >> P Haine writes:> >>>My understanding about kosher wine is that the grapes must be picked by> >>>observant Jews, > > > This is patently false. > >>>and the wine processed under rabbinical supervision. > >> This is true. > >Wine that is Kosher for Passover cannot be handled by non-Jews > Idiot... whaddayou, some fucking card carrying muslim towelheaded shit> stirrer... drop dead motherfucker!Calm down, calm down.There are two types of kosher wine--non-mevushal, your basic kosherwine, and mevushal, fit for the most orthodox wine lover.Non-mevushal wines must be produced, handled and even served by SabbathObservant Jews in order to be kosher. Mevushal wines go through an additional step, flash pasteurization, in which the wines are subjectedto heat during the winemaking process but are not boiled, contrary to popular belief. This process originated from ancient times when wine wasonce used by pagans for idolatrous worship. By pasteurizing the wines,they were considered unfit for pagan worship and should satisfy the mostorthodox Jew. As a result, mevushal wines may be handled by non-Jews andremain kosher. The back label should indicate whether the wine is mevushal or not and that it is certified "Kosher for Passover." Gillian From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 9 18:11:04 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:11:04 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Neurotic" In-Reply-To: <7919011.1049708376371.JavaMail.nobody@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Here is an antedating of the modern sense of the word "neurotic": neurotic, adj. (OED, 2., 1873) 1866 Anne Brewster _St. Martin's Summer_ 95 The climate, from its lively action on the skin, and the variety of impressions it makes on the body and mind, is captially suited for alleviating the suffering arising from all sorts of melancholy, and every kind of neurotic intermittent produced by mental causes. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 9 18:36:32 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:36:32 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Billionaire" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: billionaire (OED 1861) 1855 Fred Folio _Lucy Boston_ 305 My offspring, so nobly descended, so exquisitely beautiful and accomplished, shall never so tarnish their ancestral escutcheon as to become the 'ladies' of any thing less than billionaires. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edkeer at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 9 20:39:29 2003 From: edkeer at YAHOO.COM (Ed Keer) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:39:29 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would > bring up the fact > that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the > others (Chinese, > Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally > voiceless > (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). > [The OED doesn't provide the "Portugueece" option, > but I know I can get it.] > I've heard some people use the voiceless "ese" in at least Japanese, and perhaps some others. Ed __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From gcohen at UMR.EDU Thu Apr 10 01:32:45 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:32:45 -0500 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: I've received the following request for information: How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are washed)? A lady had been sharing a room in the local hospital (Rolla, Missouri), and her roommate (from the Ozarks) several times told her husband where to find a certain object "It's near the zink." The lady who heard this in the hospital says she's also heard /zink/ for "sink" from other people in the Ozarks. Gerald Cohen From self at TOWSE.COM Thu Apr 10 01:36:26 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Grabbing eyeballs Message-ID: I *know* what "eyeballs" are due to my misspent time. Headline in Times of India is "War on TV grabs eyeballs and revenues" Anyone have an idea when "grabbing eyeballs" came into use as a synonym for attracting viewers (in a TV sense) or users (in a Web sense). I've heard it often since the hot-hot dot-com days from marketing folks who'd talk about needing to grab eyeballs. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From nee1 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Apr 10 03:21:32 2003 From: nee1 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Barbara Need) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:21:32 -0500 Subject: great-cousin Message-ID: I was reading a missed edition of the Tribune from February and there was a picture of a young man holding a small infant and it said, infant's name, held by his 17-year-old great-cousin. There was no further information. Can any one tell me what this might mean? Barbara From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 03:45:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:45:15 -0400 Subject: Cocktail Sauce (1900,1902,1903); Dungeness Crab (1909) Message-ID: COCKTAIL SAUCE OED has only one 1960 citation for "cocktail sauce." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Dec 15, 1900; Vol. Vol. LXXXIII., Iss. 0 Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 380, 3 pgs Pg. 382: LABELS..."Demonets's Oyster Cocktail Sauce," for a sauce, T. A. Demonet. 2 January 1902, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 10 ad: _Oyster Cocktail Sauce_, Snider's latest and best production...24c. a pint. Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 4, 1903; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("OYSTER COCKTAIL SAUCE--Sneider's; a spicy condiment for all kinds of cold meats, oysters and clams; 4 pt. bottles, 95c per bottle.") --------------------------------------------------------------- DUNGENESS CRAB Merriam-Webster gives 1925 for "Dungeness crab." OED, as usual, is not to crabby and doesn't have an entry. This is from HARPER'S WEEKLY, 14 August 1909. Search the Full-Text of Harper's Weekly, 1857-1912 09-08-14 Page 24 . . . , finer if possible, than their cousins of the Atlantic Banks, and the transplanted Yankees, who make up a large part of the Washington population, have snapped them up at a price that would have abashed Lucullus. When to the Dungeness crab, which covers a plat- ter, the many delicious fishes of California, the almost fabulous Rock oysters of Yaquina, and the spicy Columbia River crawfish which is first and noblest cousin to him o . . . From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 10 03:46:45 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:46:45 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are >washed)? I don't recall ever hearing it myself. Quick Web search indicates that the pronunciation "zinc" for "sink" is considered by some to be a shibboleth of the Baltimore region, or the MD/DE/VA region. I find at a glance two instances of "sink" actually written "zinc", one apparently from a Nebraskan in the 1940's, the other from Illinois in the 1870's. Possibilities would include pronunciation from German or perhaps from some British dialect (?). However, if the /s/>/z/ is restricted to this single word, I would speculate that the word might be in fact basically "zinc", either because the word "sink" was taken to be an abbreviation of "zinc basin" or "zincked tub" or something like that, or because "zinc sink" was consciously contracted: back in the day, a zinc/zincked (i.e., galvanized) sink was a conventional household/kitchen item, I believe. -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 04:04:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:04:06 -0400 Subject: Garlic Butter (1921, 1940, 1942) Message-ID: OED has "garlic butter" from 1942. This is often used on garlic bread. From the Outdoor Grill; By Jean Freeman; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 28, 1942; pg. SM21, 1 pgs VICTUALS AND VITAMINS; By KILEY TAYLOR; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 1, 1940; pg. SM7, 1 pgs ("...spread with garlic butter,...") BUTTER DUE TO GO LOWER.; Output Far Ahead of Market Receipts, Government Reports.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 2, 1921; pg. 19, 1 pgs ("Garlic butter sells at buyers' price and is hard to move.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 04:53:57 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:53:57 -0400 Subject: Clam Knife (1889); Electric Toaster (1909,1910,1912) Message-ID: CLAM KNIFE Not in OED. Coney Island was more famous for its clams than its hot dogs, but surprisingly, "clam knife" is not in the BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Dec 1889; Vol. Vol. III,, Iss. 0 The Cautious Calm; --New York Evening Sun ; pg. 490, 2 pgs. Pg. 491: "There is probably no article of Nature's food products so little understood as the clam," continued the philosopher, as he deftly inserted a clam knife between the bony lips of a Little neck and laid one of the shells with its palpitating contents. --------------------------------------------------------------- ELECTRIC TOASTER OED has 1913 for "electric toaster" and "toaster." Those cites are now toast. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) McClure's Magazine (1893-1926), New York; May 1912; Vol. VOL. XXXIX, Iss. 0 Advertisement 158 -- No Title; pg. 0_095, 1 pgs ("_Western Electric_...Electric Toasters...Electric Chafing Dishes.") McClure's Magazine (1893-1926), New York; Jan 1, 1909, Iss. 0 Advertisement 580 -- No Title; pg. 0_203, 1 pgs ("EVENINGS when you entertain you will enjoy serving your guests from an electric chafing dish. Cooking the rare-bit without fire is a novelty in itself and you can remove the dish and use the stove for an electric toaster also. ... Simplex Electric Heating Co., Cambridge, Mass.") Display Ad 10 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 22, 1910; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("The Electric Toaster gives you the right kind--always. ... The New York Edison Company." From sussex at UQ.EDU.AU Thu Apr 10 07:07:51 2003 From: sussex at UQ.EDU.AU (Prof. R. Sussex) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:07:51 +1000 Subject: "ese" suffix In-Reply-To: <200304100402.h3A42cdx013693@mailhub2.uq.edu.au> Message-ID: I have been wondering from afar if there is a tendency for final devoicing of voiced obstruents in American English - or at least of final -s. Certainly plurals and genitives seem to do this in some cases with some speakers: so McDonald's is sometimes /-ts/, with retrogressive assimilation of (de-)voicing. It may be morphologically conditioned: I have heard Chinese as /-s/, but not cheese as /-s/. Roly Sussex -- Roly Sussex Professor of Applied Language Studies Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies The University of Queensland Brisbane Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 Email: sussex at uq.edu.au Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html School's website: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ Applied linguistics website: http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ Language Talkback ABC radio: Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ ********************************************************** From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 07:28:10 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:28:10 -0400 Subject: Maror (1889, 1892); Choroses (1878); Pot Sticker (1980); Non-Stick Message-ID: MAROR The revised OED has only 1893 for "maror" or "bitter herbs," a part of the Passover table. 16 April 1889, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: ...the Morosim, or bitter herbs, symbolizing the bitterness of the bondage from which they had been delivered;... (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Century Illustrated Magazine (1881-1906), New York; Jan 1892; Vol. VOL. XLIII., Iss. 0 THE JEWS IN NEW YORK.; Richard Wheatley.; pg. 323, 20 pgs Pg. 340?: The "matzoth," or unleavened cakes, keep alive the memory of deliverance from Egypt, as the "maror," or bitter herbs, do of the precedent bondage. --------------------------------------------------------------- CHAROSES OED has 1885 for "charoseth," another part of the Passover table. 27 January 1878, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 8: The horseradish, or bitter herb, and the mixture called _choroses_, typify the bondage of the Israelites and the cruelty of the Egyptians in embittering their lives by the degrading servitude to which they compelled them. The _choroses_, being prepared in the form of a paste or preserve, is symbolical of the mortar which was used by the Israelites in building the treasure cities for Pharaoh... 18 April 1878, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Near this dish is placed a saucer of vinegar or some salt and water, and there is also another dish containing a mixture of almonds, apples, nuts, figs and spices, formed into the consistency of a paste or preserve and known by the name of "choroses." --------------------------------------------------------------- POT STICKER OED still doesn't have this? The NEW YORK TIMES isn't great. FOOD The Chinese Tea Lunch Comes to L.I.; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 6, 1980; pg. LI8, 1 pgs ("Dim sum is loosely divisible into several categories--steamed foods, quick fried or deep-fried foods, pan-fried foods and 'pot-stickers'-tidbits wrapped in dough, that do indeed stick to the pot.") (WORLDCAT database) Title: The Art of Chinese cooking Author(s): Wong, S. T. Ting. ; Schulman, Sylvia,; 1920- Corp Author(s): Just Spokes Productions. Publication: Franklin, N.J. :; Just Spokes, Year: 1983 Description: 1 videocassette (VHS) (50 min.) :; sd., col. ;; 1/2 in. Language: English Abstract: Madame Wong and Sylvia Schulman discuss the ingredients and preparation methods of Har gow, fun gor (pot stickers), agar-agar salad, and Vegetables of peace and harmony. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery, Chinese. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 641.59/51 Responsibility: Just Spokes Productions ; producer, director, Gary Youngman. Photography, Diana Lyn ; cameramen, Patrick Marty, John Sharaf. Material Type: Projected image (pgr); Videorecording (vid); VHS tape (vhs) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19850801 Update: 20000510 Accession No: OCLC: 43045402 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- NON-STICK OED has 1958 for "non-stick." Non-Stick Postage Stamps.; CATHERINE BARRETT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 17, 1927; pg. 16, 1 pgs with Item: "Aunt Chick's pies : / rec..." CA LOS ANGELES PUB LIBR LPU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Aunt Chick's pies : recipes compiled, methods developed, non-stick pastry canvas and crispy crust pie pan / Author(s): McBirney, Nettie. Publication: Tulsa, Okla. : The Chickadees, Year: 1938 Description: 36, [3] p. : ill. ; 20 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Pies. Pastry. Note(s): "Tarts, ravioli, cookies, doughnuts"--Cover./ Includes index. Responsibility: manufactured by Nettie McBirney (Mrs. Samuel Pendelton). Document Type: Book Entry: 19981019 Update: 19981019 Accession No: OCLC: 40129226 Database: WorldCat From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 10 08:10:23 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:10:23 -0700 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030409233150.02503770@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: >>How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are >>washed)? On the old Saturday Night Live, with the original cast, Jane Curtin had a recurring character that pronounced most initial and medial s phonemes as z. I can't recall if she was supposed to be some specific nationality, though. Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 08:31:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:31:30 -0400 Subject: Fruit Cocktail (1902); Jonah Crab (1883) Message-ID: "Fruit cocktail" should have been posted with "cocktail sauce" and "Jonah crab" with "Dungeness crab," but it's been a long day. --------------------------------------------------------------- FRUIT COCKTAIL OED has 1922 for "fruit cocktail." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Aug 1907; Vol. Volume XXIV,, Iss. 0 How to Live Without a Fire; By Mrs. S. T. Rorer; pg. 28, 1 pgs The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Aug 1906; Vol. Volume XXIII,, Iss. 0 Hot-Weather Drinks and Menus; By Mrs. S. T. Rorer; pg. 33, 1 pgs The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Jun 1902; Vol. Vol. XIX,, Iss. 0 The Serving of Fruits; By Mrs. S. T. Rorer; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("_Fruit Punches_. In the early spring days when strawberries are just coming, mixed fruits served in small punch-glasses under the name of fruit cocktails or fruit punches are exceedingly attractive.") --------------------------------------------------------------- JONAH CRAB OED has 1893 for "Jonah crab." A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Jun 28, 1883; Vol. VOL. XX., Iss. 0 EDIBLE CRABS OF THE UNITED STATES.; Forest and Stream; pg. 423, 1 pgs ("The rock and Jonah crabs (_Canceriscoraeus_ and _berealis_) are eaten only to a slight extent, probably for the reason that their range is co-extensive with that of the lobster, which is much more favorably regarded as an article of food.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 08:46:39 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:46:39 -0400 Subject: Billionaire (1844) Message-ID: (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Knickerbocker or New York Monthly Magazine (1833-1862), New York; Mar 1844; Vol. 23, Iss. 3 American Ptyalism: 'Quid Rides!'; Anonymous; pg. 288, 2 pgs Pg. 288: Chewing is eminently democratic, since all chewers are "pro hac _vice_" on a perfect equality, and a "millionaire;" or, for that matter, a "billionaire," if we had him, would not hesitate to take out of his mouth a moiety of his last "chew" and give it to an itinerant Lazarus. From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Thu Apr 10 11:28:44 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:28:44 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't remember Jane Curtin 's character, but it seems unlikely that she would play any Long John Silver types, presumably with a southwestern (Zomerzet) accent. dInIs >>>How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are >>>washed)? > > > On the old Saturday Night Live, with the original cast, Jane Curtin >had a recurring character that pronounced most initial and medial s >phonemes as z. I can't recall if she was supposed to be some >specific nationality, though. > >Rima -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Thu Apr 10 11:30:35 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:30:35 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >When Dubya is in his best rhetorical mode, all his final voiced >continuants become voiceless. dInIs (happy to be voiceless in his final segment from birth) >I have been wondering from afar if there is a tendency for final >devoicing of voiced obstruents in American English - or at least of >final -s. > >Certainly plurals and genitives seem to do this in some cases with >some speakers: so McDonald's is sometimes /-ts/, with retrogressive >assimilation of (de-)voicing. It may be morphologically conditioned: >I have heard Chinese as /-s/, but not cheese as /-s/. > >Roly Sussex > > >-- > >Roly Sussex >Professor of Applied Language Studies >Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics >School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies >The University of Queensland >Brisbane >Queensland 4072 >AUSTRALIA > >Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) >Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 >Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 >Email: sussex at uq.edu.au >Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html >School's website: > http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ >Applied linguistics website: > http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ > >Language Talkback ABC radio: >Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ >Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ > http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ > http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ > >********************************************************** -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 12:13:37 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:13:37 EDT Subject: great-cousin Message-ID: In a message dated 4/9/2003 11:27:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, nee1 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU writes: > a picture of a young man holding a small infant and it said, > infant's name, held by his 17-year-old great-cousin. There was no > further information. Can any one tell me what this might mean? probably "first cousin once removed". If the son of one's niece or nephew is a "great nephew", then by analogy one might refer to the child of a first cousin as a "great cousin". Note that it is quite likely for a first cousin of a 17-year-old to be of an age to have an infant child. As far as I know, this is a nonce expression, perpetrated by a caption writer who didn't have time to ask and couldn't remember the usual term. Not everybody is a competent geneologist. I once saw in a lawyer's office a chart showing the various degrees of cousinship, implying that either the lawyer or his clients needed help with the subject. My family was insistent that the child of one's first cousin was a "second cousin" and that someone who shared a great-grandparent but not a grandparent was your "third cousin". It took me years to break this habit and accept the conventional usages of that lawyer's chart. I once met a woman, born circa 1910, who said she was a "fourth cousin" of Abraham Lincoln. I think it more likely that she was a first cousin four times removed of Lincoln. Her given middle name was Wilson and her surname was Whitehouse. She somehow avoided running for office, but this heritage may have been reflected in her profession---she was a "governess". - James A. Landau From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 12:23:55 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:23:55 EDT Subject: Maror (1889, 1892); Choroses (1878) Message-ID: Earliest "matzo" citation known to me is minutes of Congregation Shearith Israel, March 1, 1825 "The Committee apponted to make arrangements for Bekeing Matsot made the following report The Committee appointed to procure a suitable place to bake Matsoth for the endsuing Pesach report that they called on Mr Speir the person employed last year for that purpose " - Jim Landau From andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU Thu Apr 10 12:59:28 2003 From: andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU (Drew Danielson) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:59:28 -0400 Subject: linguistic note in News of the Weird Message-ID: The current issue of News of the Weird by Chuck Shepherd contains the following item under the heading, "People Different From Us": http://www.newsoftheweird.com/archive/nw030406.html "Carl Masthay, 62, was written up in Riverfront Times (St. Louis) for compiling (over the last 12 years), and self- publishing, an exhaustive, 757-page dictionary for translating between French and the Illinois Indian Kaskaskian dialect (a language no one has spoken for hundreds of years). [...] [Riverfront Times, 3-5-03]" The original Riverfront Times article is at http://www.riverfronttimes.com/issues/2003-03-05/news.html/1/index.html From lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG Thu Apr 10 14:19:16 2003 From: lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG (Scott Sadowsky) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:19:16 -0500 Subject: the language-sensitive centimeter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2003-04-07 15:22, Steve Boatti wrote the following: >It wouldn't surprise me if the discrepancy is due to differing government >regulations on how to measure the "cooking surface." Having been peripherally involved in such things, I suspect the explanation is even simpler: each language version was translated by a different person, everyone involved used their own criteria for rounding, and no project manager bothered to compare the different versiones for consistency. Cheers, Scott From bergdahl at OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 10 13:03:48 2003 From: bergdahl at OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU (David Bergdahl) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:03:48 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030409233150.02503770@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: This pronunciation is common on Tangier Is. and is supposed to resemble the west country of their native England. Any spread westward (IL, NE) might be considered as derived from the Chesapeake Bay or directly from the west of Englond. --On Wednesday, April 9, 2003 11:46 PM -0400 "Douglas G. Wilson" wrote: >> How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes >> are washed)? > > I don't recall ever hearing it myself. > > Quick Web search indicates that the pronunciation "zinc" for "sink" is > considered by some to be a shibboleth of the Baltimore region, or the > MD/DE/VA region. > > I find at a glance two instances of "sink" actually written "zinc", one > apparently from a Nebraskan in the 1940's, the other from Illinois in the > 1870's. > > Possibilities would include pronunciation from German or perhaps from some > British dialect (?). However, if the /s/>/z/ is restricted to this single > word, I would speculate that the word might be in fact basically "zinc", > either because the word "sink" was taken to be an abbreviation of "zinc > basin" or "zincked tub" or something like that, or because "zinc sink" was > consciously contracted: back in the day, a zinc/zincked (i.e., galvanized) > sink was a conventional household/kitchen item, I believe. > > -- Doug Wilson _________________________________________ "Practice random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control" From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Thu Apr 10 14:29:28 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:29:28 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are we talking about the voicelessness of lenis obstruents, what are traditionally classed as voiced obstruents? Or are we talking about replacement of, for example, final /z/ with final /s/? A devoiced /z/ is not an /s/. Just contrast "bus" and "buzz". The final /z/ is voiceless, fully or at least in its latter half, but the articulation is still less tense and shorter than that of final /s/, hence the shorter vowel before the /s/. However, the contrastive difference between obstruents in English is not voicing but fortis vs. lenis. Fortis obstruents default to voiceless and lenis obstruents voice partially or fully depending on their environment. Utterance-initial or -final they are fully or partly voiceless. Same thing adjacent to a voiceless segment. Between voiced segments they are voiced. You can hear the voicelessness of final lenes particularly well in words like "judged", where there's a long enough final lenis string for the voicelessness to be particularly evident. Ladefoged and Maddieson provide an excellent discussion fortis vs. lenis in The Sounds of the World's Languages. What's not been clear to me in this discussion of -ese is whether people are responding to final voicelessness, which won't, by itself, distinguish /-s/ from /-z/, or to vowel length. Since coda fortes take longer to pronounce than coda lenes, they shorten the vowel, an effect well known but commonly misdescribed as lengthening before voiced consonants. If the phonological contrast is in the final consonant, then "Chineece" should have a shorter vowel than "Chinese". If we're simply talking about the normal devoicing of final lenes, however, there won't be a difference in vowel length. Since most speakers of English are unaware of final devoicing of lenes and since vowel length is a major clue to final consonant quality, I suspect what we've been talking about is a fortis/lenis contrast with its corresponding vowel length alternation. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Dennis R. Preston Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 6:31 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: "ese" suffix >When Dubya is in his best rhetorical mode, all his final voiced >continuants become voiceless. dInIs (happy to be voiceless in his final segment from birth) >I have been wondering from afar if there is a tendency for final >devoicing of voiced obstruents in American English - or at least of >final -s. > >Certainly plurals and genitives seem to do this in some cases with >some speakers: so McDonald's is sometimes /-ts/, with retrogressive >assimilation of (de-)voicing. It may be morphologically conditioned: >I have heard Chinese as /-s/, but not cheese as /-s/. > >Roly Sussex > > >-- > >Roly Sussex >Professor of Applied Language Studies >Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics >School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies >The University of Queensland >Brisbane >Queensland 4072 >AUSTRALIA > >Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) >Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 >Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 >Email: sussex at uq.edu.au >Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html >School's website: > http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ >Applied linguistics website: > http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ > >Language Talkback ABC radio: >Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ >Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ > http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ > http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ > >********************************************************** -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From AAllan at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 15:15:21 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:15:21 EDT Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: Allow me to quote from that authoritative book, "How We Talk: American Regional English Today" by Allan Metcalf (Houghton Mifflin, 2000), p 52: "Baltimore is also one of the places where you can hear 'zink' for _sink_. Other examples of that pronunciation have been found by the _Dictionary of American Regional English_ in New York, Kentucky, Mississippi, Iowa, and North Dakota." My source is a message from Joan Hall of DARE in reply to my inquiry in 1999: "A quick check of the DARE files turns up examples from IA, KY (2), MD (2), MS, NY (2), and ND." I notice that the new volume of DARE has no entry for "sink," but perhaps this information will appear in a Volume 5 entry for "zink." - Allan Metcalf From Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM Thu Apr 10 15:22:28 2003 From: Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM (LeMay, William) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:22:28 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: I can verify that it's alive and well here in Dubuque, Iowa. My grandmother would always say "rensh [rinse] it out in the zink". Bill Le May From gscole at ARK.SHIP.EDU Thu Apr 10 16:17:59 2003 From: gscole at ARK.SHIP.EDU (GSCole) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:17:59 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: Seem to recall a discussion of the use of 'zinc' for sink, on this list, several years ago. Growing up in northern Delaware, we (my family) called the large, angular, side-by-side washtubs zincs. The single tub was a zinc. They had a whited-lead look to them. I was told that the metal in them was zinc. Other large tubs, not made of a similar metal, were merely tubs. Smaller ones, not used in a laundry area, were sinks. George Cole Shippensburg University From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 10 16:26:55 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:26:55 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <35438.1049965428@dhcp-073-091.ellis.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: At 09:03 AM 4/10/2003 -0400, you wrote: >This pronunciation is common on Tangier Is. and is supposed to resemble the >west country of their native England. Any spread westward (IL, NE) might >be considered as derived from the Chesapeake Bay or directly from the west >of Englond. > >--On Wednesday, April 9, 2003 11:46 PM -0400 "Douglas G. Wilson" > wrote: > >>>How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes >>>are washed)? >> >>I don't recall ever hearing it myself. >> >>Quick Web search indicates that the pronunciation "zinc" for "sink" is >>considered by some to be a shibboleth of the Baltimore region, or the >>MD/DE/VA region. >> >>I find at a glance two instances of "sink" actually written "zinc", one >>apparently from a Nebraskan in the 1940's, the other from Illinois in the >>1870's. >> >>Possibilities would include pronunciation from German or perhaps from some >>British dialect (?). However, if the /s/>/z/ is restricted to this single >>word, I would speculate that the word might be in fact basically "zinc", >>either because the word "sink" was taken to be an abbreviation of "zinc >>basin" or "zincked tub" or something like that, or because "zinc sink" was >>consciously contracted: back in the day, a zinc/zincked (i.e., galvanized) >>sink was a conventional household/kitchen item, I believe. >> >>-- Doug Wilson > > > >_________________________________________ >"Practice random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control" When I first met my ex-mother-in-law from Baltimore and heard her say "zinc," I looked over to the sink to see if it was made of zinc (it wasn't, as far as I could tell). I knew nothing about dialect variation at the time, obviously. But I suppose the earlier imported pronunciation could have led to a lexical reanalysis as non-English (or non-German?) settlers moved in and heard the term. From mam at THEWORLD.COM Thu Apr 10 22:57:16 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:57:16 -0400 Subject: the language-sensitive centimeter In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030410090521.04be9620@66.36.96.30> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Scott Sadowsky wrote: #On 2003-04-07 15:22, Steve Boatti wrote the following: # #>It wouldn't surprise me if the discrepancy is due to differing government #>regulations on how to measure the "cooking surface." # #Having been peripherally involved in such things, I suspect the explanation #is even simpler: each language version was translated by a different #person, everyone involved used their own criteria for rounding, and no #project manager bothered to compare the different versiones for consistency. And this morning I saw a similar product, also with E/F/S labeling, in which the F and S metric numbers were the same. -- Mark M. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 02:12:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:12:55 EDT Subject: V-I Day Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/10/opinion/10SAFI.html William Safire's NEW YORK TIMES column (above) today is titled "Jubilant V-I Day." That's for "Victory over/in Iraq." OED has both "VE" (Europe) and "VJ" (Japan). It's a good thing we don't have to declare victory over Denmark. Google Groups shows that Safire didn't come close to coining it. "V-I Day" has been used not only recently, but also in 1991 during the first Gulf War. Let's see, if we beat Iran, that would be called... From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 11 02:14:17 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:14:17 -0400 Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language Message-ID: Can anyone help me determine the precise source of the William S. Burroughs quotation, "Language is a virus from outer space"? Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Fri Apr 11 02:42:02 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:42:02 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Ed: > > > I've heard some people use the voiceless "ese" in at > least Japanese, and perhaps some others. I've heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece", but not "Portugeece". Anybody else have similar experiences? Anne G. From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Fri Apr 11 04:36:12 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:36:12 -0400 Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language Message-ID: Fred, I'm just googling on "groups" and this came up. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=borroughs+virus&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=of f&selm=30mfl4%24of6%40tuba.cit.cornell.edu&rnum=3 Don't know if it helps. It doesn't contain the exact phrase, but it does have the words in there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shapiro" To: Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:14 PM Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language > Can anyone help me determine the precise source of the William S. > Burroughs quotation, "Language is a virus from outer space"? > > Fred Shapiro > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS > Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 05:06:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:06:38 -0400 Subject: Acorn Squash (1845); Orange Pekoe (1840); Imperial Crab (1945) Message-ID: ACORN SQUASH OED has 1937 for "acorn squash." This continues "squash studies" that have included buttercup squash (1932), butternut squash (1944), crookneck squash (1839), pattypan squash (1835), spaghetti squash (1976), and turban squash (1872). (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) Whitman, Narcissa Prentiss. "Letter from Narcissa Whitman to Mrs. L. L. Brewer, Febuary 20, 1845" [Page 183 | Paragraph | Section | Document] to your husband for him. He would write, if possible. He sends some corn as Mr. B. requested. He has none that has been particularly saved for seed; but will, next fall, if desired, save and send some New York corn, which we find to be very suitable for the country. Some beets and acorn squash seeds are in the bag with the corn. The others you requested, we have none. Please give my love to Brother and Sister Waller, to your husband and self and all the dear children, and believe me, in haste, Yours affectionately, N. W. Mrs Results Bibliography Whitman, Narcissa Prentiss, 1808-1847, Letter from Narcissa Whitman to Mrs. L. L. Brewer, Febuary 20, 1845, in Mrs. Whitman's Letters 1843-1847. Salem, OR: Oregon Pioneer Association, 1894, pp. 167. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [2-20-1845] S232-D038 --------------------------------------------------------------- ORANGE PEKOE OED has 1877 for "orange pekoe" tea. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Merchants' Magazine and Commercial Review (1839-1870), New York; Dec 1840; Vol. 3, Iss. 6 Art. I.--Commerce of China; Anonymous; pg. 465, 17 pgs Pg. 466 (TEAS): Orange Pekoe. --------------------------------------------------------------- IMPERIAL CRAB I should add that the same restaurant that served "crab imperial" in 1944 advertised "imperial crab" in 1945. Display Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 6, 1945; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("The King of the Sea, 3rd Ave., near 53rd St.") --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: EASTER ISLAND'S SEX, LIES AND FIELD NOTES http://www.americandialect.org/excite/collections/adsl/000690.shtml In November 1998, I made the above post on "Easter Island Words." My tour guide has published a fine book, AMONG STONE GIANTS: THE LIFE OF KATHERINE ROUTLEDGE AND HER REMARKABLE EXPEDITION TO EASTER ISLAND (NY: Scribner, 2003). She's leading another tour of the island on November 1-16 (www.archaeologicaltrs.com). Last evening at the Explorers Club on East 79th Street (www.explorers.org), she gave a lecture on "Sex, Lies and Field Notes: Katherine Routledge and Easter Island Archaeology." This was one of my first places on the world tour, and she remembered me after five years. I wasn't mentioned in "Sex, Lies and Field Notes." Whew, that was close. From jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM Fri Apr 11 13:28:58 2003 From: jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM (James Smith) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:28:58 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <009901c2ffd3$ef53bce0$75a8f5d1@annehpbrww9plk> Message-ID: --- Anne Gilbert wrote: > Ed: .... > > I've heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece", but not > "Portugeece". Anybody else > have similar experiences? > Anne G. To help those of us who have, apparently, never heard this, is it "eece" as in "Greece"? ===== James D. SMITH |If history teaches anything South SLC, UT |it is that we will be sued jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com |whether we act quickly and decisively |or slowly and cautiously. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Fri Apr 11 17:22:57 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: James: > To help those of us who have, apparently, never heard > this, is it "eece" as in "Greece"? Yes. Anne G From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 11 18:24:28 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:24:28 -0400 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: <000701c2ffe3$e7434600$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: I need some help in interpreting a word-usage. The OED's first use of the word "computer" in the sense of "a person who computes" is dated 1646. In the sense of a calculating machine, their earliest use is dated 1897. I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure whether "computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. Can anyone tell from the context what the likely answer is? 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no reply. Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an elevation of a quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes following the course of the nib, as if it were the index of a patent computer. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 11 18:51:59 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:51:59 -0700 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I need some help in interpreting a word-usage. > > The OED's first use of the word "computer" in the sense of "a > person who computes" is dated 1646. In the sense of a > calculating machine, their earliest use is dated 1897. > > I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure > whether "computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. > Can anyone tell from the context what the likely answer is? > > 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no > reply. Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, > at an elevation of a quarter of an inch above the paper, her > eyes following the course of the nib, as if it were the index > of a patent computer. To me, this is clearly denoting a computing or calculating device. The clues are: 1) the use of "patent." It is differentiating between a person who computes and a patented device that does so. In this case, the phrase "patent computer" may be a transitional term between human and mechanical calculators. 2) the particular sense of "index." This is OED2 definition 2.a., "A piece of wood, metal, or the like, which serves as a pointer; esp. in scientific instruments, a pointer which moves along a graduated scale (or which is itself fixed while a graduated scale moves across its extremity) so as to indicate movements or measurements." Phemie's actions are mimicking the movements of a calculating machine. From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 11 19:04:22 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:04:22 +0100 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred Shapiro wrote: > I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure whether > "computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. Can anyone > tell from the context what the likely answer is? > > 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no > reply. Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an > elevation of a quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes > following the course of the nib, as if it were the index of a > patent computer. That is an intriguing citation. The word "patent" and the general image suggests that a form of machine is being referred to. There were a large number of attempts to create mechanical calculators in the nineteenth century. It could be referring to a Thomas machine, which was invented in the 1820s and was so successful that it was still being sold almost a century later. But all such devices were, so far as I know, usually called "calculating machines". -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 11 21:17:58 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:17:58 -0400 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure whether >"computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. Can anyone tell from >the context what the likely answer is? > >1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no reply. Her >pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an elevation of a >quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes following the course of the >nib, as if it were the index of a patent computer. IMHO, this appears to refer to a machine ... perhaps an analogue computer? Brief glance at U.S. patent documents prior to 1869 shows "calculator" and "calculating machine", "adder" and "adding machine", (rarely) "reckoner" and "reckoning machine", ... and (not so rarely) "computing machine". I did NOT find "computer" (I don't claim an exhaustive search), although if a calculating machine can be called a calculator then surely a computing machine can be called a computer ... perhaps with a qualifier such as "patent" or "mechanical", since at that time "computer" referred to a person's occupation/activity (quotation from 1870 [referring to a calculating machine]: "it is questionable if such an elaborate undertaking would have been possible if the work done by the machine had been required at the hands of even a much larger staff of computers than would ever be available in a public department"). "Computing machine" is in patent application #60,475 (1866), for example, while #18,711 (1857) employs the expression "implement or device for computing or calculating". -- Doug Wilson From einstein at FROGNET.NET Fri Apr 11 22:24:22 2003 From: einstein at FROGNET.NET (David Bergdahl) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:24:22 -0400 Subject: Leo Rosten died Message-ID: Writer Leo Rosten dies; popularized Yiddish in U.S. > > DEBRA NUSSBAUM COHEN > > Jewish Telegraphic Agency > > NEW YORK -- Leo Rosten, who translated his mamaloshen into English and > helped make words like "shlep" and "nosh" part > of the American vernacular, has died at 88. > > Perhaps best known for his 1968 book "The Joys of Yiddish," Rosten was an > amateur sociologist who also authored dozens of > nonfiction and fiction titles, including mysteries. > > His first book, 1937's "The Education of H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N," which grew > out of short stories he had published in > the New Yorker magazine, affectionately recounted the struggles of people > steeped in Yiddish culture and language who were > trying to acclimate to life in America. > > Early in his career, Rosten used the pseudonym Leonard Q. Ross. He was > apparently trying -- like many transplanted Jews -- > to go by a name that sounded to his immigrant ears more glamorous and > American. Rosten was born April 11, 1908, in Lodz, > Poland, to Samuel and Ida Freundlich Rosten. The family immigrated to the > United States when he was 3. > > In Chicago, Rosten was raised in a working-class environment whose > population of new Jewish Americans formed the setting > for his later writing. > > His best-known character, Hyman Kaplan, was based on one of Rosten's > students from night school. > > The warmth and humor with which Rosten wrote about his indomitable Hyman > Kaplan struck a familiar chord with many > people who were striving at the time to blend into the melting pot. > > Kaplan reappeared in two sequels, "The Return of H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N," in > 1959, and "O K*A*P*L*A*N! My > K*A*P*L*A*N!" in 1976. > > Rosten possessed the same ear for humor and the same affection for his > characters that Sholem Aleichem and Mark Twain had > for theirs, said Sol Steinmetz, an authority on the impact of Yiddish on the > English language. > > Hyman Kaplan's "is a loving story, and throughout his life Mr. Rosten tried > to convey this tremendous love of the language and > culture," said Steinmetz, author of "Yiddish and English: A Century of > Yiddish in America" and editorial director of the > reference division at Random House. Steinmetz was recently quoted by New > York Times language columnist William Safire as > differing with Rosten over the origins of the Yiddish word "shmuck." > > Rosten "has made a lasting contribution to American culture and even Jewish > culture. Jews who in the 1930s were ashamed of > Yiddish, and throughout World War II felt funny about recognizing their > Jewishness, learned through people like Rosten to feel > proud of their Yiddishness without fear or shame," he said. > > Decades later, Rosten wrote "The Joys of Yiddish" and helped bring to > America's farthest reaches a familiarity with Yiddish > patois. > > Rosten "helped popularize the usefulness and interest and humor of Yiddish > as it influenced American English -- so people were > not embarrassed, after his contributions, to use such words," said > Steinmetz. > > Today, even Dunkin' Donuts urges customers to try its new bagels through the > use of billboards reading, "It's Worth the > Schlep." > > Words such as "mensch" and "chutzpah," which with their multiple nuances > have no precise English equivalent, and uniquely > Yiddish sentence forms such as "Shakespeare it's not" and "Enjoy, enjoy!" > are now used by Americans totally removed from > any connection to the culture from which this language sprang. > > Today, "you can live in Minnesota and pick up a Yiddishism and not even be > aware of what it is," Steinmetz said of Rosten's > lasting influence. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 22:50:37 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:50:37 EDT Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) Message-ID: HUH?? From the archives at nytimes.com: Magazine Desk | January 4, 1998, Sunday The Lives They Lived: Leo Rosten; Talking Tachlis By Wendy Wasserstein (NYT) 574 words Late Edition - Final , Section 6 , Page 24 , Column 2 ABSTRACT - Wendy Wasserstein tribute to Leo Rosten, humorist and author of book on Yiddish language, who died in 1997; photo (M) b. 1908 Leo Rosten probably made Seinfeld safe for TV and bagels acceptable on the Delta Shuttle. Although Rosten was primarily a humorist, his larger purpose was to help us understand our social selves. In our house, Yiddish was the language of the old country, specifically Poland, and therefore the one that the ''kinder'' didn't understand. My brother Bruce and I sought to decode secret transmissions by signing him up for high-school German. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 23:06:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:06:11 EDT Subject: Manila clam (1969, 1971, 1972); Sea Dollar (1879) Message-ID: (I tried to send this "thrilla in Manila" last night, but AOL didn't respond after clicking "SEND.") MANILA CLAM More local seafood for you Washington State readers. "Manila clam" is not in the revised OED? From the NEW YORK TIMES, 1 July 1990, pg. XX6: "The Manila, as it is called, took hold in the 60's, and it is now the standard of the Northwest clam industry." These are the last of _120 hits_ in the NEW YORK TIMES alone: 115. Glittering Italian on the South Shore; By JOANNE STARKEY; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 18, 1989; pg. LI15, 1 pgs 116. For Northwest Chefs, a Mixed Blessing In an Abundance of Local Products; By BRYAN MILLER, SEATTLE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 17, 1989; pg. C6, 1 pgs 117. 'Clean Eating' for the Holidays; By M.H. REED; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 13, 1988; pg. WC31, 1 pgs 118. Italian Fare for Healthy Appetites; By PATRICIA BROOKS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 14, 1988; pg. CN35, 1 pgs 119. SEAFOOD OF THE DESERT; BY SUSAN HERRMANN LOOMIS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 30, 1987; pg. SM47, 2 pgs 120. Ordering the Fresh Produce; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 17, 1985; pg. C8, 1 pgs (JSTOR database) Ecological Effects of Intertidal Manila Clam Cultivation: Observations at the End of the Cultivation Phase B. E. Spencer; M. J. Kaiser; D. B. Edwards Journal of Applied Ecology, Vol. 34, No. 2. (Apr., 1997), pp. 444-452. (WORLDCAT database) A guide to Manila clam aquaculture in Puget Sound / Author: Anderson, Gregory J.; Miller, Mark B.; Chew, Kenneth K. Publication: Seattle : Washington Sea Grant Program, College of Ocean and Fishery Sciences, University of Washington, 1982 Document: English : Book Libraries: 25 Libraries with Item: "The morphology, morphogen..." WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: The morphology, morphogenesis and reactive responses of 3H-thymidine labeled leucocytes in the Manila clam, Tapes semidecussata (Reeve). Author(s): Cheney, Daniel P., 1941- Year: 1969 Description: 194 l. illus. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Manila clam. Leucocytes. Wounds and injuries. Note(s): Bibliography: l. [150]-158./ Dissertation: Thesis (Ph. D.)--University of Washington. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19890513 Update: 20020622 Accession No: OCLC: 19703580 Database: WorldCat Libraries with Item: "The setting and growth of..." WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item1 Title: The setting and growth of the Manila clam, Venerupis japonica (Deshayes), in Hood Canal, Washington. Author(s): Nosho, Terry Yoshihisa. Year: 1971 Description: 67 l. illus. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Clams -- Washington (State) -- Hood Canal. Mollusks -- Washington (State) -- Hood Canal. Manila clam. Note(s): Bibliography: l. [64]-67./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--University of Washington. Other Titles: Manila clam. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19890821 Update: 20020712 Accession No: OCLC: 20224474 Libraries with Item: "Various aspects of the reproductive..." WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Various aspects of the reproductive cycle of the manila clam (Venerupis japonica). Author(s): Holland, David Allen. Year: 1972 Description: 61 l. illus. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Clams. Note(s): Bibliography: l. 51-54./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--University of Washington. Other Titles: Manila clam (Venerupis japonics) Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19890523 Update: 20020627 Accession No: OCLC: 19750871 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- SEA DOLLAR OED has 1884 for "sand dollar." This "sea dollar" just looked interesting. Same thing? "Thousand dollars" sure throws off a "sand dollar" search. Search the Full-Text of Harper's Weekly, 1857-1912 79-11-01 Page 879 . . . > around at right angles with the pillow, and at in- tervals kicked out wildly, scattering the bed- clothes far and near. Above their heads two shelves contained their museum of treasures col- lected during the day. Pebbles, bits of lobster shells and claws, "sea-dollars," dried star-fish, the shells of sea-urchins perforated with a skill no Chinese carver on ivory ever could imitate, mussels, oysters overgrown with sea-weed -- what . . . From mam at THEWORLD.COM Fri Apr 11 23:15:27 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:15:27 -0400 Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: # HUH?? From the archives at nytimes.com: # # #Magazine Desk | January 4, 1998, Sunday #The Lives They Lived: Leo Rosten; Talking Tachlis # #By Wendy Wasserstein (NYT) 574 words [...] #our social selves. In our house, Yiddish was the language of the old country, #specifically Poland, and therefore the one that the ''kinder'' didn't #understand. My brother Bruce and I sought to decode secret transmissions by #signing him up for high-school German. My grandparents used it the same way. I read it as meaning that her brother signed up to study German in h.s. as a way for to understand their parents' Yiddish, and tell his sister too. Presumably (almost certainly) their h.s. didn't offer Yiddish. Just because that's what they were trying to do doesn't mean they succeeded at it. -- Mark M. From self at TOWSE.COM Fri Apr 11 23:18:09 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:18:09 -0700 Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) Message-ID: Mark A Mandel wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > > # HUH?? From the archives at nytimes.com: > # > # > #Magazine Desk | January 4, 1998, Sunday > #The Lives They Lived: Leo Rosten; Talking Tachlis > # > #By Wendy Wasserstein (NYT) 574 words > [...] > #our social selves. In our house, Yiddish was the language of the old country, > #specifically Poland, and therefore the one that the ''kinder'' didn't > #understand. My brother Bruce and I sought to decode secret transmissions by > #signing him up for high-school German. > > My grandparents used it the same way. > > I read it as meaning that her brother signed up to study German in h.s. > as a way for to understand their parents' Yiddish, and tell his sister > too. Presumably (almost certainly) their h.s. didn't offer Yiddish. > > Just because that's what they were trying to do doesn't mean they > succeeded at it. I think Barry's HUH?? was referring to the "Leo Rosten died" obit he was responding to, not to Wendy Wasserstein's piece, written in 1997. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 00:36:39 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:36:39 EDT Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" Message-ID: In a message dated 4/11/03 2:25:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU writes: > 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no reply. > Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an elevation of a > quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes following the course of the > nib, as if it were the index of a patent computer. Compare "if we have a machine with an index of any kind, which, while the generating line moves one inch downwards, moves forward as many degrees as the generating lin is inches long the index will still measure the area of the curve traced by the extremity of the generating line." The above is part of a description, published in 1855, of a machine to "integrate a curve" (i.e. to measure the area under a curve). Note the use of the word "index", meaning something which sticks out of a machine and conveys numerical information. I don't doubt that the 1869 quote is a description of the same or a somewhat similar computing machine. Quote is from James Clerk Maxwell, "Description of a New Form of the Platometer, an Instrument for Measuring the Areas of Plane Figures drawn on Paper" Trnasactions of the Royal Scottish Society of Arts, vol. IV (1855), quoted in Herman H. Goldstine _The Computer from Pascal to von Neumann_ Princeton NJ: Princeton University Press, page 42,. 43n Also worth quoting: "The object of this machine is to substitute brass for brain in the great mechanical labour of calculating the elementary consistuents of the whole tidal rise and fall." William Thompson, Lord Kelvin, _Mathematical and Physical Papers_, vol VI, page 280, quoted in Goldstine, page 43, 44n - James A. Landau From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 04:41:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:41:55 -0400 Subject: Buttermilk Pie (1938); Milk Shake (1886); Ice Cream Scooper (1954) Message-ID: Thanks to NYU's Greg Downing for pointing out that NYU now has the WASHINGTON POST on a trial basis, so I can look at that again. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERMILK PIE, POCAHONTAS PUDDING, WHITE MONKEY I knew the WASHINGTON POST would be better on "buttermilk pie" than the NEW YORK TIMES. I also found a "white monkey" with "Pocahontas." Display Ad 137 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 9, 1952; pg. X32, 1 pgs Now's the Time to Whip Up Cooling Supper Dishes; By Lucia Brown; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 20, 1947; pg. C7, 1 pgs Pie as Dessert Brightens the Day Regardless of the Occasion; Ice Cream Marmalade Treat Wins First Prize; By Martha Ellyn, By The Post Food Editor; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 8, 1939; pg. 18, 1 pgs Recipes Flow Like Milk They're Made of Into Post Food Contest to Take Prizes; Puddings, Soups, Sauces, Salads Among Dishes of Dairy Origin; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 7, 1939; pg. 15, 1 pgs ("...Pocahontas pudding...") ("One of the most amusing ideas suggested was 'White Monkey,' which, despite its jungle name, was a mild and gentle dish of eggs poached in milk, then combined with cheese and hot toast.") Delicious Pies, Gingerbread and Griddle Cakes Made With Buttermilk Take Prizes in Post's Contest; Flavor Adds Tang Novelty Economical Waffles Popular; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 14, 1938; pg. X18, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- MILK SHAKE I had posted the first of the below recently. The 1886 cite I found the old way and posted in the old ADS-L archives, but I'll re-post it for convenience. BEFORE THE CONVENTION.; GREAT CROWDS OUTSIDE THE HALL--A BUNGLING DISTRIBUTION OF TICKETS --THE ASSEMBLING OF THE DELEGATES--DEFECTS IN THE ARRANGEMENT OF THE HALL.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 20, 1888; pg. 1, 2 pgs EDITOR GRADY'S LETTER; WHAT HE FINDS OF INTEREST IN THE RUINED CITY.; Special Dispatch to THE POST., H. W. GRADY.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 5, 1886; pg. 5, 1 pgs The Latest Novelties.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 13, 1886; pg. 2, 1 pgs (_From the Atlanta Constitution_. You get it at the soda fountains. The mixer of cooling beverages pours out a glass of sweet milk, puts in a big spoonful of crushed ice, puts in a mixture of unknown ingredients, draws a bit of any desired sirup, shakes milk in a tin can, like a barkeeper mixes lemonade, sprinkles a little nutmeg on the foaming milk until it looks something like a Tom and Jerry, sits it out for you and you pay five cents. "Milk shake" is an Atlanta drink. Atlanta is nothing of not original.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM SCOOPER I checked for "scooper." "Ice cream scoop" is earlier, but I wanted to avoid a scoop of ice cream. 20 June 1954, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. S13, col. 4 ad: _New Home Dipper_ _for Ice Cream, Desserts_ Makes every meal more appetizing and decorative! A flick of the thumb and exclusive "pop-out" action neatly pops out perfectly rounded portions of ice cream, chopped meats, cottage cheese, other dishes. No muss or fuss with this professional type dipper. Super Scooper's all-aluminum construction stays shiny, cleans easily. A lightweight kitchen helper...makes handy gift. Guaranteed. Only $1 ppd. SIEBERT CO., 2230 South Union Ave., Chicago 16, Ill. From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Sat Apr 12 04:46:22 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:46:22 -0700 Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language Message-ID: attributed to him, possibly a poem http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cantsin/homepage/writings/theory/language_viru s/language_a_virus_-_english.txt William S. Burroughs. Electronic Revolution. Expanded Media Edition, Bonn, 1982 Quark out Lower Umpqua Addictive Conundrum Institute From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 05:04:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:04:25 -0400 Subject: Monterey (Jack) Cheese (1912) Message-ID: The revised OED has 1912 for "Monterey cheese." Some Facts About Cheese; THERE ARE 245 VARIETIES MADE FROM THE MILK OF GOATS, COWS, SHEEP AND REINDEER.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 14, 1912; pg. M4, 1 pgs ...brick... ...Caciocavallo... ...Bellelay... ..."Tete de Moine" or Monk's Head"... Native American cheese are few and far between. The oldest of this class seems to be "Isigny," a cheese which originated about 30 years ago in attempts to imitate "Camembert" cheese. (...) "Jack" is a second native American cheese. It was first made in Monterey County, California, about a quarter of a century ago, and was then called "Monterey" cheese. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 05:19:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:19:24 -0400 Subject: Rabbit Food (1921, 1925) Message-ID: In the last post, I meant to say that the revised OED has _1918_ for "Monterey cheese." This is a little better for "rabbit food." AS A MAN "EATS," SO IS HE; New and Radical Discoveries in Food Values. Most People Are Overfed, Yet Starving. Wrong Feeding Is Cause of Most Diseases -- Eat Correctly and Become Well and Efficient.; By PHILANDER D. POSTON.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 15, 1925; pg. E5, 1 pgs ("Until recently, lettuce was looked upon as 'rabbit food'; tomatoes were considered so much water, or a dangerous acid which should be avoided;...") TO TRAVEL 9,000 MILES AT 87; Vancouver Man, Who Eats Food Raw, Will Make Trip Alone.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 26, 1921; pg. 25, 1 pgs ("He has found by past experience that dining car porters are not particularly sympathetic toward passengers who eschew all the costly viands and subsist on what Mr. Sharon terms 'rabbit food.'") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 06:15:46 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:15:46 -0400 Subject: Stir-fry (1956); Pot-Sticker (1979); Imperial Crab (1920,1934) Message-ID: STIR FRY Merriam-Webster has 1958 for "stir fry" and OED has 1959. Pop Everything Into the Skillet; Frozen French Fries With Fruited Pork Chops; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jan 31, 1963; pg. C14, 1 pgs Let's Swap Recipes; Chinese Specialty; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Apr 2, 1959; pg. C9, 1 pgs Would You Like to Learn How to Cook an Octopus?; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 5, 1956; pg. F14, 1 pgs ("Cooking. Put peanut oil in very hot skillet; add salt and garlic. Add squid. Stir fry squid roll up like balls.") --------------------------------------------------------------- POT-STICKER FOOD The Chinese Tea Lunch Comes to L.I.; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 6, 1980; pg. LI8, 1 pgs Hwei Ping; Richman on Restaurants; Phvllis C. Richman; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jan 14, 1979; pg. SM32, 2 pgs (Full text didn't come up--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- IMPERIAL CRAB/CRAB IMPERIAL The WASHINGTON POST has it much earlier than the NEW YORK TIMES, as expected. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 6, 1934; pg. 12, 1 pgs: HALL'S RESTAURANT AND GARDEN 7th and K Sts. S. W. (Since 1885) SUMMER SUGGESTIONS Soft Shell Crabs, Deviled Crabs, Crab Imperial, CLams, Beer, Liquor, Mixed Drinks Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 13, 1920; pg. 2, 1 pgs: HARVEY's 11th and Penna Ave. HAS SPECIAL TODAY Broiled Live Lobster Imperial Crabs Manhattan Crabs Fried Chicken, Maryland Style From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 07:04:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:04:06 -0400 Subject: Clams Casino (1916); White Pizza (1973); Shot Glass (1934) Message-ID: CLAMS CASINO CITY BULLETINS. j o *"o. 1; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 18, 1916; pg. 10, 1 pgs: _Harvey's Seafood Platter Today_, 12 to 3, 6 to 8:30, 50c Clams Casino, Crab Flakes Newburgh, Fried Oysters, Potato Salad and Slaw. Other seasonable delicacies. 11th and Pa. ave. (Sounds pretty good to me for fifty cents. I'd even tip a dime...This 1916 WASHINGTON POST cite really did the job. Here's what I'd posted in the archives: CLAMS CASINO--John Mariani cites Julius Keller's INNS AND OUTS with creating the "clams casino" in 1917. So how come it sounded new to the NEW YORK TIMES in 1943? --ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- WHITE PIZZA Making a Meal of Delicious Little Morsels; By Edith Vanocur; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1973; pg. K10, 1 pgs: _WHITE PIZZA_ _Per person_ 1 pizza bottom, or a half muffin, or Sahara bread split into rounds Olive oil Minced onions Minced Garlic Caraway seeds --------------------------------------------------------------- SHOT GLASS What's What in the Wine Glass Question; Diners Must Learn to Distinguish Them by Their Size and Shape; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1934; pg. A12, 1 pgs: Whisky glasses remain the small straight little "shot glasses" they always have been. They may have a deep false bottom, but nothing, of course, so effete as a stem. Tom Collins glasses, or glasses for whiskey and soda, are also tall, straight and large. (GLASS IN PHOTO CAPTION: Super Highball, Tall Whiskey Shaker, Cut-dot beer goblet, Hollow stem Champagne, Rhine wine, Brandy inhaler, Old fashion toddy glass, White wines, Sauterne, Claret, Sherry, Hollow-stem liqueur, Cocktail, Claret) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 08:39:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 04:39:43 -0400 Subject: Chipotle (1950); Chicken Tetrazzini (1928); Butternut Squash (1944) Message-ID: CHIPOTLE Just to give you a target, the OED's draft entry for _chipotle_ has a first cite from 1952. Jesse Sheidlower OED Display Ad 69 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 12, 1950; pg. 14, 1 pgs: BLOOMINGDALE'S DELICACIES SHOP, 59th Street near Lexington Ave. _From Mexico:_ Gay basket holds a whole tinned pineapple, strawberries, hot chile sauce, wild flower honey, liquid mole sauce, toasted chipotle chile in Daube sauce 7.50 --------------------------------------------------------------- CHICKEN TETRAZZINI Favorite Recipes Of New York Chefs; Emince of Breast of Chicken Tetrazzini; By THEODORE LA MANNA. (Chef, Hotel Woodward); The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 8, 1928; pg. SM8, 1 pgs: Mix two parts of shredded breast of chicken previously roasted or boiled, with one part of cooked spaghetti cut about 1 1/2 inches long and enough cream sauce to make the mixture about as thick as chicken hash. Season well with salt, pepper, a little grated nutmeg and grated Parmesan cheese. Place in a deep dish and sprinkle the surface with Parmesan cheese and small pieces of butter. Brown in the oven and serve hot. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERNUT SQUASH It's a tad earlier in the WASHINGTON POST. Display Ad 44 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 9, 1944; pg. X10, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 5, 1944; pg. M5, 1 pgs: ...Butternut squash... Max Schling Seedsmen, Inc. Dept. N 618 Madison Ave., New York, 22, N. Y. --------------------------------------------------------------- GARLIC SALT The first citation (1916) might not be right. There appears to be a "garlic salt" gap until the early 1930s: 1. Fish Tails . .; Tilghman Fisherman's Guide Association.; By Francis P. Leithiser.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 23, 1933; pg. 18, 1 pgs 2. The Homemaker; By NANCY CAREY; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 17, 1932; pg. 8, 1 pgs 3. BEST LENTEN MENU GIVEN POST AWARD; Miss Kerfoot's Recipe Is Appetizing and Easily Prepared.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 27, 1932; pg. 10, 1 pgs 4. Drying Process Makes Vegetables Better; Removing Water Without Cooking Them, and Soaking in Water, Improves Quality, Say Developers of American Method; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 24, 1916; pg. SM12, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- NEAR BEAR OED has 1909. NEW DWELLING IS SOLD.; L.L. Burns Disposes of Property at 1439 G Street Northeast.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1908; pg. 10, 1 pgs: _"NEAR BEAR"_ _Under Ban._ _Atlanta Prohibits Its Sale to Minors and Cuts Out Free Lunch._ (...) ...so called "near bear," a beverage containing less than 2 per cent alcohol, which has been on sale since the prohibition law went into effect. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 9, 1898; pg. 5, 1 pgs (I didn't see anything close in this Classified Ad jumble, but you can try to ruin your eyes and be my guest--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- BLACKOUT CAKE I'm looking for any date for this. "BLACKOUT CAKE" is in the following Waldbaum's supermarket ad: Display Ad 66 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 4, 1968; pg. 43, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 09:54:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:54:13 -0400 Subject: Sun-Dried Tomatoes (1981); Chicken Kieff (1938,1939); Crepes Suzette (1895) Message-ID: SUN-DRIED TOMATOES Flashes in the Pan; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 4, 1981; pg. K1, 1 pgs ("The tomato, over the centuries, has been back and forth across the Atlantic to seek favor. Now, with most of the year offering only pale tomato facsimiles, we turn to Italy again. Sun-dried tomatoes, preserved in olive oil, were the flashy immigrants in posh food stores last year, so much so that the supplies ran out. Now Suzanne's has them again, and we would be surprised if other stores didn't follow. Their concentrated tomato flavor would compensate for winter's missing tomato-ness in recipes, but given their price--$7.20 for 10 ounces--and their deliciousness as is or layered on bread, they are better as a focus than as a flavoring.") ENTERTAIN: Menus for The Heart; By Susan Dooley; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 9, 1981; pg. C5, 1 pgs (Only a summary available--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CHICKEN A LA KIEFF I traveled to the Ukraine for this, but it didn't help. I have earlier, but maybe this chef invented it? 1. Five High School Girls Win Prizes; Serve It Forth: Cutlets de Volaille, Muscovite As Served at Russian Troika; By Martha Ellyn. The Post Food Editor; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 1, 1939; pg. 1, 2 pgs ("Chef Feodor Karakos was 'kidnaped' by Helen Hamilton from the Maisonette Russe, St. Regis Hotel, New York City, and brought to Washington to insure the most excellent in Russian food. Chef Feodor formerly presided over the food at the famous Opera Club, Chicago. This famous chef is an artist with foods. (...) He says that four of his specialties which are extremely popular are--Breast of Chicken a la Kieff (boned breast of chicken with butter stuffing); Cutlet de Volaille. Muscovite (boned breast of chicken stuffed with mushroom dressing)...Caucasian Shashlik en Brochet...Flaming Beef. Strogonoff.") 2. News of Capital Night Clubs; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 31, 1939; pg. 22, 1 pgs 3. News of Capital Night Clubs; By Mary Harris; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 26, 1938; pg. X16, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- CREPES SUZETTE 4. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 10, 1898; pg. 7, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 23, 1895; pg. 7, 1 pgs 6. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 16, 1895; pg. 7, 1 pgs: WODWARD & LOTHROP The following weaves are among the most fashionable: _Crepe Suzette_, In all evening shades 85c per yd. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 10:34:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:34:55 -0400 Subject: Veal Orloff (1958); Veal Oscar (1967); Steak Diane (1948) Message-ID: VEAL ORLOFF Not in OED. Display Ad 50 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Jun 6, 1958; pg. C14, 1 pgs: State Dinner of the Pan American Union honoring President Theodor Heuss of Germany (...) Saddle of Veal Orloff --------------------------------------------------------------- VEAL OSCAR Not in OED. Display Ad 221 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 4, 1967; pg. E19, 1 pgs: VEAL OSCAR STEAK DIANE _Les Ambassadeurs_ 1737 DeSales St. NW --------------------------------------------------------------- STEAK DIANE In OED! The first citation is the 1957 GOURMET COOKBOOK. Steak Worthy Of the Name; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 25, 1953; pg. SM32, 2 pgs Gotham's Famed Chefs Cook for Food Editors; Food Editors Dine on Gay Nineties Fare; By Lucia Brown; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 1, 1948; pg. C1, 2 pgs: EARLIER in the week, a smaller group of us was entertained at a gourmet dinner hosted by a baby food company in the Drake Room on 56th st. at Park ave. This is a spot that has become famous among New Yorkers for its buffet luncheons, as well as for such dishes as steak Diane. This was made for us by Nino, the maitre d'hotel, who created the dish and named it for his small daughter. Display Ad 22 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 9, 1936; pg. S8, 1 pgs (It's NOT here! Mis-read of "steak dinner"--ed.) From einstein at FROGNET.NET Sat Apr 12 12:38:30 2003 From: einstein at FROGNET.NET (David Bergdahl) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:38:30 -0400 Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) Message-ID: My bad! My wife's cousin passed this on & I thought the death was more recent... From pds at VISI.COM Sat Apr 12 16:19:59 2003 From: pds at VISI.COM (Tom Kysilko) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:19:59 -0500 Subject: Twin Cities = Mpls/St Paul (1886) Message-ID: Two years ago, James A. Landau asked: >Does anybody know when Minneapolis and St. Paul first used the designation >"Twin Cities"? At that time, the earliest I could find in the UMich Making of America database was 1891 for Mpls/St Paul, with references to other pairs of cities going back to 1858. I suggested that the St. Paul Pioneer Press might be fruitful. Two days recently at the Minnesota Historical Society Library dashed that hope, and gave me renewed admiration for the kind of thing Barry does. An evenings work got me through only three months of the SPPP on microfilm, and that was with a considerable amount of skimming. No Twin Cites in 12/88 - 2/89. However, the R. L. Polk City Directory for St. Paul proved more helpful. 1888: full page ad on p. 184. "St. Paul & Duluth / Railroad / The shortest Line in Distance to / Lake Superior / . . . / The "Limited" runs daily, and consumes only five hours between the Twin Cities and Duluth, making but three stops en route." [The SP&D ads for 1879-1887 do not use "Twin Cities".] 1886: alphabetical listing on p. 953. "Twin Cities Street Improvement Co. George W Cross pres, Wm Crooks sec and treas, 44 Gilfillan blk." [I found no alphabetical listings for Twin Cities anything in 1879-1885 Directories.] This date is surely beatable. I would suggest 1872, the year Mpls annexed the Village of St Anthony on the east side of the Mississippi, as a terminus a quo. Before then, if Twin Cities can be found in this region at all, it is more likely to refer to Mpls/St Anthony. Tom Kysilko Practical Data Services pds at visi.com Saint Paul MN USA From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 19:45:17 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:45:17 EDT Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: The _Report of the Commissioner of Patents for the Year 1859_ (printed in Washington DC in 1860) has several articles on varieties of wine grapes in the US and territories. Unfortunately some of names giver are nonce names, as the writer admitted he could not find a local name so he just used the name of the area he found the grape. I will merely list the names; if a listmember finds one to be of interest I'll be happy to quote the context. Page 32 Mountain, Red River, Washita Page 34 muscadine, Scuppernong Page 35 Mustang, Catawba, Pineau, Gamay Page 36 Chickasaw (plum) Page 38 muscatel Page 40 pasas (Mexican raisins) Page 43 Catawba, Isabella, Scuppernong, Clinton, Bartlett, Petit Noir, Hardford Prolific, Henshaw, Amber, Concord Page 44 Sage Page 45 Traminer Page 47 Sweet-water, Bull's Concord Page 48 Dracut Page 49 Isabella Page 53 "Adelia, or Petit Noir" Page 57 Harding's Sweet-water Page 63 Crystal Page 81 Diana, Delaware, Isabella, Catawba, Case's Crystal Page 84 Trollinger, Gutedel, Elbing, Traminer Barry Popik's earliest citation for "blush wine" is 1984. Is the following a synonym? "Making schiller wine.---This name signifies a particular color of the wine, varying from one hue to another, and to be called niether white, yellor, nor red. Grapes of all colors are used in making this wine; they are mashed by putting the mill on the top of the vat, and the husks put in it, and fermented together with the must. When they are all mashed, or one vat is filled, the false or fermienting bottom is set in, to keep the husks under the must, and the head and other fixtures put on. The fermenting of schiller wine ttakes a longer time and is more stormy than white or claret wines; but this is stronger, more fiery, and aromatic, than either." (pp 89-90) Also of note: (page 48) "the Sage grape of Concord---a native of the wwoods of that town. Cultivated by R. W. Emerson." The writer Emerson? - Jim Landau From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Sat Apr 12 20:19:22 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:19:22 -0400 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: > > Also of note: (page 48) "the Sage grape of Concord---a native of the wwoods > of that town. Cultivated by R. W. Emerson." The writer Emerson? > Presumably. Emerson was "the Sage of Concord" after all. I would guess this is what we now know as the "Concord" grape, but I don't know anything about grapes so that's ONLY a guess... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 21:22:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:22:24 -0400 Subject: Chief Cook and Bottle Washer (1807,1818,1836,1840) Message-ID: John Mariani's ENYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK has "chief cook and bottle washer" from 1840. (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) Sedgwick, Catharine Maria. "Letter from Catharine Maria Sedgwick to Robert Sedgwick, July 08, 1818" [Page 106 | Paragraph | Section | Document] of a preparation of dinner for a brace of clergymen and their wives, who had just come in upon us. You may imagine it produced some confusion of ideas. The roar of the cataract of Niagara and the stirring of a custard; the sweet image of les belles soeurs and the heaven-forsaken visage of my chief cook and bottle-washer; the rush of thoughts occasioned by the arrival of the fair foreigner, and the sedative of Cousin Mary White's monotonous looks and voice; the glowing image of Margaret; the sweet, maternal tones of our dear Jenny's sweet voice; Harry's `cooing noises,' and the ringing of plates, and Results Bibliography Sedgwick, Catharine Maria, 1789-1867, Letter from Catharine Maria Sedgwick to Robert Sedgwick, July 08, 1818, in Life and Letters of Catherine M. Sedgwick. Dewey, Mary E.. New York, NY: Harper & Row, 1871, pp. 446. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [7-8-1818] S75-D027 (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) American Turf Register and Sporting Magazine (1829-1844), New York; Jul 1836; Vol. 7, Iss. 11 The life and adventures of Pete; T C F; pg. 496, 5 pgs Pg. 497: He was constantly seen in the thickest of the crowd: "chief cook and bottle washer." (LITERATURE ONLINE) 1. Ioor, William [Author Record] The Battle Of The Eutaw Springs (1807) 205Kb THE BATTLE OF THE EUTAW SPRINGS, AND EVACUATION OF CHARLESTON; OR THE GLORIOUS 14th OF DECEMBER, 1782. A NATIONAL DRAMA, IN FIVE ACTS. 203Kb Found 2 hit: Main text 199Kb ACT V. 33Kb Scene 18Kb ...Oliver Matthew Queerfish, esquire; chief cook and bottle washer to his... ...Queerfish, esquire; chief cook and bottle washer to his august majesty... 2. Lindsley, A. B. (Abraham B.) [Author Record] Love And Friendship; Or, Yankee Notions (1809) 148Kb LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP; OR, YANKEE NOTIONS: A COMEDY, IN THREE ACTS. 147Kb Found 2 hit: Main text 144Kb ACT II. 49Kb SCENE IV 16Kb ...[Stage direction] Why sometimes I acts cook, steward, cabin boy, sailor, mate,... ...cabin boy, sailor, mate, and bottle washer, for matter 'f that,... 1. Fay, Theodore S. (Theodore Sedgwick), 1807-1898 [Author Record] The Countess Ida: A Tale of Berlin . . . Volume 1 (1840) 600Kb The Countess Ida: A Tale of Berlin . . . Volume 1 597Kb Found 2 hit Main text 592Kb CHAPTER XXI. 17Kb ...he's our right-hand man---our chief cook and bottle-washer; and, what's very... ...right-hand man---our chief cook and bottle-washer; and, what's very remarkable, too,... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 23:07:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:07:20 -0400 Subject: Cranshaw/Crenshaw (1940, 1956); Mirepoix (1867) Message-ID: CRANSHAW/CRENSHAW Not in OED?...Obviously, the LOS ANGELES TIMES will have this earlier. A little something for readers in California and Oregon to chew on. Food News of the Week; Rise in Pork, Beef and Lamb Prices Laid to Recent Slump in Producers' Profits; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 9, 1940; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("A brand new kind of melon, the Cranshaw from San Francisco, made its debut this week in New York. It is a cross between a casaba and a Persian, with a yellowish pink meat and an unusually sweet flavor. It has a smooth, green skin.") PROSPECTS FOR A MELON CROP; Experts in Different Climatic Regions of the Country Agree That Success Depends on Adaptable Varieties; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 27, 1956; pg. 137, 1 pgs ("In Oregon in particular there are two principal regions where melons do well enough to warrant planting the shipper varieties such as Hale's Best, Heart of Gold and Crenshaw, as well as those suited to local use only.") 'WHAT'S IN A NAME--'; Improved Qualities of Modern Varieties Defeat the Magic of Old Favorites; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 12, 1956; pg. X39, 1 pgs ("Delicious 31 and Iroquois are delicious melons to grow in the Northeast, Crenshaw with pink flesh and a soft rind that defies shipping is a gourmet's delight on the West Coast.") (WORLDCAT database) Whitewashing Crenshaw and cantaloup melons to reduce solar injury / Author: Lipton, Werner J., 1928- Publication: Washington, D.C. : Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, 1975 Document: English : Book --------------------------------------------------------------- MIREPOIX The revised OED has 1877 for "Mirepoix." It's named after a Frenchman. Now called "Diced Carrots, Onions, Celery and Herbs of Freedom." The Galaxy. A Magazine of Entertaining Reading (1866-1878), New York; Apr 1, 1867, Iss. 0 MODERN AND MEDIAEVAL DINNERS.; PIERRE BLOT.; pg. 717, 7 pgs Pg. ?: ...pigeons a la Mirepoix;... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 02:34:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:34:06 -0400 Subject: Earl Grey Tea (1894,1934); Darjeeling Tea (1948); Marie Biscuit (1907) Message-ID: EARL GREY TEA Not in OED, but British and in FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Jun 1894; Vol. Volume XV, Iss. 0 Chief Cooks of Royalty.; Souereigns at Dinner Pittsburg Leader ; pg. 553, 2 pgs Pg. 554: ...tea of a peculiar kind, known as Earl Grey's mixture, forming her majesty's beverage at that meal. Display Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 24, 1934; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("Earl Grey Tea, l lb. tin, 1.90") --------------------------------------------------------------- DARJEELING TEA Display Ad 84 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 5, 1948; pg. SM22, 1 pgs (DARJEELING TEA...8-oz. pkg. 1.25") --------------------------------------------------------------- MARIE BISCUIT I've seen "Marie biscuits" in many brands and in many countries, yet it's not in the OED or in my food books. In the 1948 "Darjeeling tea" citation above, Huntley & Palmer Biscuits "Sweet Marie" is also advertised. In the following citation, "Huntley & Palmer Biscuits" also are advertised, but "Marie Biscuits is advertised separately. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 26, 1907; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Marie Biscuits") --------------------------------------------------------------- GENOISE Merriam-Webster has 1931 for "genoise." OED has no entry. I'll do more work on this. THE TOURNEY OF THE CHEFS; ARTISTIC NEW YEAR FEASTS SPREAD BY THE BIG HOTELS. ELABORATE DISHES TO TEMPT THE PALATE AND DISTURB THE DIGESTION -- CROWDS VIEWED THEM, BUT THE WISE STOPPED WITH THE AESTHETIC PLEASURE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1893; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("Genoise montee" is on the January 2nd menu--in French--of the Hoffman House--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 00:34:29 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 20:34:29 -0400 Subject: Casaba melon (1855,1883,1885); Persian melon (1823,1872,1926) Message-ID: CASABA MELON Merriam-Webster has 1889 for "casaba." OED has no "casaba" entry. OED has one 1916 "casaba" mention in its "honeydew" entry. Just miserable on food. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Title: Harper's statistical gazetteer of the world / by J. Calvin Smith ; Illustrated by seven maps. Publication date: 1855. Pg. 346: CASABA, or CASSABA, two towns of Asia Minor. (...) It is renowned for its pears & melons, which, with cotton & cotton manufs. compose its princ. exports. 21 October 1883, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 5 (describing a California ranch): ...his melon patches would make all the small boys of Missouri swoon at the sight of the varied watermelons and muskmelons, the net melons, spoon melons, casabas, and citrons that roll over the rich brown earth. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL) Madge's Second Venture, by Mary Morrison: pp. 180-181 p. 180 2 matches of 'melon*' in: Title: The American missionary. / Volume 39, Issue 6 Publisher: American Missionary Association. Publication Date: June 1885 Pg. 180: Yesterday Madge has some cassaba melon seed sent her from Smyrna... --------------------------------------------------------------- PERSIAN MELON Not in OED? 1. PRODUCE MARKETS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 17, 1926; pg. 34, 1 pgs 2. Sugar-Making from Melons.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 3, 1872; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("The cantaleup and Persian melon yield more sugar, but require most care and cost in manipulation.") (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The American Farmer, Containing Original Essays and Selections on Rural Economy and Internal Improvements, with Illustrative Engravings and Prices Current of County Produce (1819-1834), Baltimore; Feb 14, 1823; Vol. 4, Iss. 47 A new method of preserving vines from bugs; Anonymous; pg. 374, 2 pgs Pg. 374 (Letter writer for West Chester Cy., N. Y.): I enclose a few Musk melon seeds, of a kind much superior to any I have ever met with. We received the seeds by the name of _Persian melon_. Its size is large, and its flavor delicious. It is, however, rather late in ripening. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 14:38:35 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:38:35 EDT Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: In a message dated 4/12/03 4:18:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM writes: > Presumably. Emerson was "the Sage of Concord" after all. I would guess this > is what we now know as the "Concord" grape, but I don't know anything about > grapes so that's ONLY a guess... Afraid it was a bad guess. Page 66 "No. 22. _Vitis labrusca._, the original Concord grape, a seedling from the _Vitis labrusca._---This vine is now fifteen years old, and has borne regularly for seven years. The owner and propagaotr, Hon. E. W. Bull, of Concord, Massachusetts, deserves much credit for the introduction of the highly valuable grape. Its character consists of the following points: berries over medium size, oval, of a dark-blue color, thin skin, juicy, and of an agreeable wine taste; good for the table and wine making; it ripens about the middle of September No. 25. _Vitis labrusca._ Sage grape, a red-brown wild native grape, found in the woods some years ago by Mr. Sage, and transplanted by Mr. R. W. Emerson, of Concord, massachusetts, on the south side of his house. berries of uncommonly large size, three berries weighing an ounce; round and tolerably sweet; ripens early in September." Also, page 129, discussing agriculture around Naples (then a kingdom): "a grape called Wafrancola is spoken highly of, with a strawberry flavor and coarse leaf, not subject to mildew." - Jim Landau From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Sun Apr 13 19:08:09 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:08:09 -0400 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: > > > Presumably. Emerson was "the Sage of Concord" after all. I would guess this > > is what we now know as the "Concord" grape, but I don't know anything about > > grapes so that's ONLY a guess... > > Afraid it was a bad guess. > Oh, well, diffierent grape -- but it must be the same Emerson, right? How many RW Emerson's could there have been in Concord in the 1840's? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 22:19:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:19:27 -0400 Subject: Seven-Minute Icing (1927) Message-ID: Once again, the online WASHINGTON POST comes through. It's better than the NEW YORK TIMES, and the CHICAGO TRIBUNE and LOS ANGELES TIMES will both be better still. These tools are incredible. Seven-minute icing? Not six minutes? Not eight minutes? Well, that's just what it's called. Check the Google hits yourself, minute by minute. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 11, 1927; pg. 10, 1 pgs: _Seven Minute Icing_ 3/4 cup sugar 1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar or baking powder 1 egg 3 tablespoons water 1/2 teaspoon vanilla Place all ingredients in top part of doible broiler, having water in lower part boiling. Beat together until thick enough to spread. Add vanilla. _Precaution_--Have fine sugar or melt it in water before adding egg. (...) Crisco is used by Mrs. Lilla Pauline Cross in The Washington Post Cooking School CRISCO From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 22:54:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:54:15 -0400 Subject: Twin Cities (1883, 1884) Message-ID: Got to do something for those MN readers. I don't know if the next volume of DARE will have anything. MINNEAPOLIS AND ST. PAUL; A SPIRITED RIVALRY BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES. A NEW-YORKER'S OBSERVATIONS--THE LOCAL DIRECTORIES QUESTIONED--HOTELS AND PUBLIC BUILDINGS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 28, 1884; pg. 5, 1 pgs IN THE GREAT NORTH-WEST; BITTER RIVALRY OF THE TWIN CITIES OF MINNESOTA. UNIQUE EXPERIENCE OF THE VILLARD EXCURSIONISTS--NEW-YORK CONCEIT OBLITERATED BUT BOSTONIANS SERENE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1883; pg. 9, 1 pgs From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Sun Apr 13 23:01:31 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:01:31 -0400 Subject: "XXX makes the Baby Jesus Cry" Message-ID: So, where did this phrase come from? Does it predate the Simpsons? The Simpsons usually just mirror things that existed. In a current thread over at the Straight Dope a poster just said that her Catholic father knew it from the 1940's or 50's. I'm skeptical. Any help here? She suggested it was Southern. I'm still skeptical. --Sam Clements From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 23:08:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:08:15 -0400 Subject: Bottle Opener (1891,1896); Can Opener (1864); Citrus Zester/Peeler (1982) Message-ID: BOTTLE OPENER Display Ad 55 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 1, 1901; pg. 28, 1 pgs Display Ad 20 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 7, 1899; pg. 17, 1 pgs Article 14 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 31, 1896; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("A Kentucky man has patented a new bottle opener. We have always understood that the Kentucky bottle, like Kentucky hospitality, is always open.") DID HE STRIKE TO KILL; Trial of Joseph Fielden, the Wellknown Lightweight.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1891; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("While at the bar witness had picked up a wine bottle opener and had remarked to Mr. Humphrey that it would be a dangerous thing to hit a man with...") --------------------------------------------------------------- CAN OPENER OED has 1877 for "can opener." The BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE went crazy on this one, with over 2000 hits, mostly for "eye opener." Classified Ad 24 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 28, 1864; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Can openers") --------------------------------------------------------------- CITRUS ZESTER, CITRUS PEELER Display Ad 81 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 30, 1982; pg. TG24, 1 pgs: ...Henckels 4-star cutlery... The set (a $32 value) includes: corkscrew, citrus zester, bottle opener, bar spoon and citrus peeler. (...) MACY'S THE CELLAR From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 23:21:50 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:21:50 -0400 Subject: Senegalese Soup (1957) (Sinhalese-Sri Lanka?) Message-ID: Jean Anderson's AMERICAN CENTURY COOKBOOK, pg. 63, writes about "Senegalese Soup." It's a curried soup, and it has been speculated that it comes from Sri Lanka and is really "Sinhalese Soup." So I immediately flew to Sri Lanka...and never found it on a menu. The earliest citations don't give us any clue, but include the recipes: Food News; A 3-Course Meal in 30 Minutes; By NAN ICKERINGILL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 15, 1965; pg. 22, 1 pgs ("HOT SENEGALESE SOUP") Seasonal Fresh Fruits Complement Many Curry Dishes; Melons or Mangoes Offer Contrast to Spices ; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 23, 1962; pg. 32, 1 pgs ("There is a recipe for a cold Senegalese soup, which is a sort of curried vichyssoise.") Food News: Festive Meal Easily Made; NEW YEAR'S DAY DINNER; BY JUNE OWEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1957; pg. 22, 1 pgs (QUICK SENEGALESE SOUP) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 23:57:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:57:01 -0400 Subject: Eggs Benedict (1912); Eggs Florentine (1910) Message-ID: EGGS BENEDICT Once again, the WASHINGTON POST comes through with better detail of New York cuisine than the NEW YORK TIMES. OED has 1898 for "Eggs Benedict," but this gives an explanation of the place of origin. FACTS AND FANCIES IN WOMAN'S WORLD; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 6, 1912; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("At the old Hoffman House they made a combination of a tomato, peeled and scooped out and filled with a bearnaise baked and served with a bearnaise sauce. This was called eggs Benedict, and was famous with epicures.") --------------------------------------------------------------- EGGS FLORENTINE OED has 1747 (Hannah Glasse cookbook), then 1911 for "Florentine." The latter citation is its first for "eggs Florentine." Display Ad 81 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 9, 1919; pg. 22, 1 pgs Display Ad 30 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 10, 1914; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 22, 1910; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Eggs Florentine" is served in Macy's Thanksgiving Dinner--ed.) Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 25, 1904; pg. 16, 1 pgs ("Tenderloin of Beef a la Florentine" is served on the Christmas menu of The Famous Carlos, 25 West 24th Street--ed.) EUROPE AT HALF RATES; Valuable Advice for Americans Who Are Going Abroad.; MISS STALNAKER.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 24, 1896; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("...veal a la Florentine...") FINE DINNERS IN NEW-YORK.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 10, 1895; pg. 21, 1 pgs (This is a large article with lots on menus, mostly in French. "Poires a la Florentine" is on the December 1871 menu of Delmonico--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 00:32:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:32:32 -0400 Subject: Chef's Salad (1929); House Salad (1967); House Wine (1964) Message-ID: CHEF'S SALAD See the ADS-L archives for 1930s "chef salad" citations. Today's Menu; By Alice Clayton. The Post Food Editor.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 13, 1939; pg. 11, 1 pgs Week-End Menus; By Alice Clayton. The Foit food Editor.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 17, 1938; pg. X13, 1 pgs Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 14, 1935; pg. SF2, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 11, 1933; pg. 6, 1 pgs Display Ad 63 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1930; pg. 26, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 18, 1929; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Special Chef Salad" is offered at Gimbels--ed.) Display Ad 30 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 29, 1929; pg. 6, 1 pgs: Chef Salad (...) GIMBELS BROADWAY at 33rd STREET --------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSE SALAD There are earlier hits, such as "White House Salad," but they weren't what I was looking for. Directory to Dining; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1967; pg. 42, 1 pgs ("The food is good, be it a bracciole of chicken salad, any of numerous veal dishes, the bread or the house salad.") --------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSE WINE OED has 1973 for "house wine." Again, there are many irrelevant hits. Jack's Lives Up to Its Billing on Coast; Service and Ambiance Are Cosmopolitan -- Kan's Also Good; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE, Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 8, 1964; pg. 24, 1 pgs ("Even the house wine by the glass has a desirable savor.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 00:48:10 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:48:10 -0400 Subject: Clamato (1956, 1957) Message-ID: Clamato=clam juice + tomato juice. Perhaps useful to anyone studying the tomato. I was looking for "house salad" when I found an early citation, before the trademarked product. Display Ad 193 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 12, 1956; pg. 39, 1 pgs: _You saw them first in Esquire_ The Clamato Cocktail, Chilled Avocado Soup, Short-Cut Vichyssoise. Word Mark CLAMATO Goods and Services IC 032. US 046. G & S: MIXTURE OF TOMATO JUICE AND CLAM JUICE. FIRST USE: 19571030. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19571112 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72040657 Filing Date November 14, 1957 Registration Number 0699486 Registration Date June 14, 1960 Owner (REGISTRANT) CAPE COD COOKS, INC. CORPORATION MASSACHUSETTS SANDWICH MASSACHUSETTS (LAST LISTED OWNER) CBI HOLDINGS INC CORPORATION BY ASSIGNMENT DELAWARE PO BOX 3800 HIGH RIDGE PARK STAMFORD CONNECTICUT 069050800 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record ALBERT ROBIN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECTION 8(10-YR) 20020110. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 20020110 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark CLAMATO Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 032. US 045 046 048. G & S: Mixture of tomato juice and clam juice. FIRST USE: 19571030. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19571112 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 78056475 Filing Date April 3, 2001 Owner (APPLICANT) Mott's Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 6 High Ridge Park P.O. Box 3800 Stamford CONNECTICUT 069050800 Attorney of Record Albert Robin Prior Registrations 0699486;2104130;2273388 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date February 1, 2002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 02:36:31 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:36:31 -0400 Subject: Rock Cornish (1952); Blushing Bunny (1922,1936); Crabmeat Norfolk (1963) Message-ID: ROCK CORNISH GAME HENS Not in OED. I was surprised that the NEW YORK TIMES beat the WASHINGTON POST--with an ad for the "Maryland Market," no less. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Dec 15, 1955; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("ROCK CORNISH GAME HENS" is sold by Larimer's, 1727 Connecticut Ave., NW--ed.) Display Ad 23 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 10, 1954; pg. 22, 1 pgs: Squab Broilers.....$1.25 each Rock Cornish Hens..$1.59 each THE MARYLAND MARKET 412 Amsterdam Avenue Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 5, 1954; pg. 13, 1 pgs News of Food; Old World Cuisine and Service Offered in Handsome Modern Setting at Baccara ; By JUNE OWEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 2, 1952; pg. 20, 1 pgs ("There is also Rock Cornish hen stuffed with wild rice and foie gras and cooked in a sweet-sour sauce of mustard and white grapes.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BLUSHING BUNNY I've posted "Blushing Bunny" all the way to 1931. It's supposed to be a regional dish, traced to New York State, but where? Perhaps here's a clue. Is "blushing bunny" in David Barnhart territory? NOTES FOR THE TRAVELER; Thoughts of Tourists Turn to the Americas--Cotton Fete-Trips by Air Increase; By DIANA RICE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 27, 1938; pg. 154, 1 pgs ("New York's Blushing Bunny"--ed.) MISCELLANEOUS RECIPES; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 29, 1936; pg. FCR8, 1 pgs ("BLUSHING BUNNY" recipe--ed.) Classified Ad 123 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 15, 1922; pg. 111, 1 pgs ("Two small houses, over 100 years old; one known as 'The Blushing Bunny Inn,'... ...two miles from Hopewell Junction, Dutchess County, N. Y., and sixteen miles from Poughkeepsie, N. Y."--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CRABMEAT NORFOLK This is a little late for this regional dish. The NEW YORK TIMES is useless for a dish like this. 1. Display Ad 82 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jan 2, 1976; pg. D11, 1 pgs 2. Display Ad 40 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 30, 1975; pg. C5, 1 pgs 3. Display Ad 64 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 26, 1975; pg. B15, 1 pgs 4. Display Ad 74 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Nov 28, 1975; pg. C9, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 82 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Nov 12, 1975; pg. 44, 1 pgs 6. What's Doing in ANNAPOLIS; By MARJORIE HUNTER; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 7, 1975; pg. 9, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 141 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jul 12, 1964; pg. C6, 1 pgs 8. Here's Some Bacon at $6.49 a Slice; By John Pagones; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 22, 1963; pg. C9, 1 pgs ("Crabmeat Norfolk") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 03:37:26 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:37:26 -0400 Subject: Fat Farm (1968); Fat City (1961) Message-ID: FAT FARM The RHHDAS has 1969 for "fat farm." Very Interesting People; Observers Wonder If They Really Have Rusk Tied Up; By Maxine Cheshire; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jan 14, 1968; pg. G3, 1 pgs: _Skimming Off the Fat_ (...) Now, Toni Hatfield thinks she would like to open a less expensive kind of "fat farm" outside Washington. --------------------------------------------------------------- FAT CITY The RHHDAS has 1964 for "fat city." Ducks, Assigned to Rural Life, Come Out of the Wilds to the White House; By Thomas Wolfe Staff Reporter; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Apr 13, 1961; pg. A1, 1 pgs ("'Wow, this is Easy Street in a fat city,' said a white Peking Duckling, lying back maharajah-style.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 04:35:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:35:44 -0400 Subject: Ratatouille (1855, 1868, 1870) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster have 1877 for "ratatouille." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Roussel, Napoleon, 1805-1878. Title: Catholic & protestant nations compared, in their threefold relations to wealth, knowledge, & morality. By Rev. Napoleon Roussell [!] ...with an introd. by the Hon. & Rev. Baptiste Noel... Publication date: 1855. Page 13 - 1 term matching "ratatou*" ("It is useless to speak of the odious '_ratatouilles_' that are set before you there.") Author: Spiers, Alexander, 1807-1869. Title: Spiers and Surenne's French and English pronouncing dictionary. Newly composed from the French dictionaries of the French academy, Laveaux, Boiste, Bescherelle, Landais, etc., and from the English dictionaries of Johnson, Webster, Worcester, Richardson, etc. ... By A. Spiers ... Carefully rev., cor., and enl., with the pronunciation ... according to the system of Surenne's Pronouncing dictionary ... by G. P. Quackenbos, A. M. Publication date: 1870. Page 514 - 1 term matching "ratatou*" ("RATATOUILLE...(stew of meat and vegetables).") 5 October 1868, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 4: There was a detachment of French infantry at La Soledad, whose cheerful bugles were summoning the wearers of about two hundred pairs of red trousers to the evening repast, of which "ratatouille," a kind of gipsy stew, forms the staple ingredient. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 06:02:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:02:20 -0400 Subject: Maine's "Coot Stew," "Flip" (1938); Demon Rum (1845,1854) Message-ID: TRENDING INTO MAINE by Kenneth Roberts Boston: Little, Brown and Company 1938 Great read for "coot stew" and "ketchup," too. OED has "flip" from 1695, but this is still worthwhile. Pg. 143 (Chapter 7): _A Maine Kitchen_ Pg. 144: ...it's not to be compared with a Maine cunner, cod or haddock chowder, made with salt pork and common-crackers. Pg. 144: Ah me! Those Saturday night dinners of baked beans, brown bread, cottage cheese, Grandma's ketchup; and for a grand finale, chocolate custards! Pg. 147: Ketchup is an important adjunct to many Maine dishes, particularly in families whose manner of cooking comes down to them from seafaring ancestors. Pg. 148: Such was the passion for my grandmother's ketchup in my own family that we could never get enough of it. We were allowed to have it on beans, fish cakes and hash, since those dishes were acknowledged to be incomplete without them; but when we went so far as to demand it on bread, as we often did, we were peremptorily refused, and had to go down in the cellar and steal it--which we also often did. (Long recipe for Maine ketchup on page 149 will be typed on request--ed.) Pg. 153: My grandmother's beans were prepared like this... (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 154: The hash trick was simpler. (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 154: Mystery has risen like a fog around Maine fish chowder. (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 156: The first step in making chocolate custards is to buy two or three dozen glass goblets--the sort shaped like large egg-cups. (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 158: A coot, of course, is crazy, as is shown by the expression, "As crazy as a coot"; so if a gunner moves up on a flock while it is under water, and ceases to move when the flock, with military precision, reappears on the surface, no suspicion of evil ever enters the minds of his quarry. Pg. 159: There's an old, old recipe in Maine for stewing coot; and that recipe, I suspect, originated in the dim, dim past, probably with the Norsemen who came to Maine in their little open boats a thousand years ago. To stew coot, runs this recipe, place the bird in a kettle of water with a red building-brick free of mortar and blemishes. Parboil the coot and the brick together for three hours. Pour off the water, refill the kettle, and again parboil for three hours. For the (Pg. 160--ed.) third time throw off the water, for the last time add fresh water, and let the coot and the brick simmer together overnight. In the morning throw away the coot and eat the brick. State-of-Mainers, no matter how often they hear it, always find this recipe inordinately amusing. It used to amuse my grandmother, and I've heard her repeat that venerable recipe herself, with many a quiet chuckle; yet she served coot stew whenever coot couldn't be avoided. She had the coot skinned, never plucked; and all fat was carefully removed. The bodies were parboiled fifteen minutes in water to which soda had been added. Then they were put in an iron kettle with a moderate amount of water and boiled three hours, at the end of which time as many sliced potatoes were added as the situation seemed to require. Dumplings were added as soon as the potatoes were done; and when the dumplings in turn were thoroughly cooked, they were temporarily removed while the remaining liquid was thickened with flour and water, and salted and peppered to taste. The dumplings were then put back, and the stew was ready to serve. Pg. 161: The State of Maine, in my grandmother's day, was perhaps a trifle odd about what was known as the Demon Rum--rum being the generic term for all alcoholic beverages. Pg. 163: In northern Maine, where winters are lingering and oppressive, early settlers made buttered rum by using hot hard cider in place of hot water; and Local Tradition--in which, as I have repeatedly intimated, I put little faith--says that men have been known, at the beginning of winter, to drink too much hot buttered rum made with a base of hot hard cider, fall into a stupor and not wake up till spring. Pg. 163: Flip was a milder and more popular beverage in Maine in the early days, though not much cheaper, since there was a period, a couple of generations before the Revolution, when rum sold for a shilling and a half a gallon. The base of flip was beer. A two-quart pitcher was three-quarters filled with beer, to which was added a cup of rum, and sweetening matter to taste--brown sugar, molasses or dried pumpkin. This mixture was stirred with the red-hot poker, which was kept constantly clean and hot for that purpose.Taverns which pretended to great gentility and elegance kept on hand a bowl of flip-sweetener made of a pint of cream, four pounds of sugar, and four eggs, well beaten together. Pg. 164: On occasions the sweetening matter was omitted from a mixture of beer and rum, in which case the drink was known as "calibogus." Pg. 348 (Maine road signs): BARBARA DEAN'S--FOOD WE ARE PROUD TO SERVE THIS IS P.J.'S DINER--A GOOD PLACE TO EAT FRANCES JEWELL DINING ROOM--REAL MAINE HOME COOKING HOT FRIED CLAMS TO TAKE OUT HOT FRIED CLAMS TO TAKE WITH U Pg. 354 (Maine road signs): TRY OUR FRIED CLAM DINNER A LONG COOL DRINK MADE WITH 4 ROSES GORTON'S CODFISH MARY ANN'S LUNCH CLOVERBLOOM BUTTER PICKWICK ALE NISSEN'S BREAD--FRESHEST THING IN TOWN FRIED CLAMS TO TAKE OUT --------------------------------------------------------------- DEMON RUM Score another one for the BROOKLYN EAGLE--until I check with the American Periodical Series, not available here are NYU. 14 November 1845, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: He was under the influence of the demon, rum. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Robinson, Solon, 1803-1880. Title: Hot corn: life scenes in New York illustrated. Including the story of little Katy, Madalina, the rag-pikcer's daughter, wild Maggie, etc. With original designs, engraved by N. Orr. By Solon Robinson. Publication date: 1854. Search results: 2 matches in full text Page 63 - 1 term matching "demon rum" Page 361 - 1 term matching "demon rum" Pg. 361: It was not the man who struck the blow, it was the demon Rum! From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 14 06:16:58 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:16:58 -0700 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 In-Reply-To: <133.1e283211.2bc9c6cd@aol.com> Message-ID: >...Barry Popik's earliest citation for "blush wine" is 1984. Is the >following a >synonym? > >"Making schiller wine.--- No. "blush wine" is white wine from red grapes, which comes out in a range of reddish colors. It is made by using red grapes and keeping the skins on for only a short period of time - enough to just color the wine. I think it was Sutter Home who came out with a white zinfandel and were the first to call their product "blush wine". It was/is quite sweet - sort of like a spiked Kool-Aid. If one excludes all the rosé wines, the first produce of this type of wine here, I think, was Caymus, with their Oeil du Perdrix (Eye of the Partridge), which was a bone dry white Pinot Noir. Unfortunately, we just found out they don't have it anymore. It was my favorite wine. Foo. Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 06:47:34 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:47:34 -0400 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60; Oysters Bienville (1955,1956) Message-ID: One citation I have (maybe it was the OXFORD COMPANION TO WINE--where I didn't see "mevushal," by the way) says that "blush wine" was introduced in 1977. --------------------------------------------------------------- OYSTERS BIENVILLE For those who can't sleep deciding between Arnaud's and Antoine's oysters. The former is Oysters Bienville, the latter Oysters Rockefeller. 1. Food: New Orleans Oysters; Recipes of Types Made Famous by Antoine's and Arnaud's Preserves Are the Latest Specialty Offered by Trappist Monks 'Trappist Preserves' ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 2, 1956; pg. 18, 1 pgs (Oysters Bienville recipe is here--ed.) 2. Eating; JESSE'S BOOK OF CREOLE AND DEEP SOUTH RECIPES. By Edith Ballard Watts, with John Watts. 184 pp. New York: The Viking Press. $3.50 THE LONGCHAMPS COOKBOOK. By Max Winkler. Illustrations by Robert M. Myers. 110 pp. New York; By CHARLOTTE TURGEON; New York, New York, N.Y.; Feb 13, 1955; pg. 291, 1 pgs ("...Arnaud's Oysters Bienville...") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 07:01:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 03:01:19 -0400 Subject: Refrigerator Cookie (1930) Message-ID: REFRIGERATOR COOKIE All the early citations--and they start in 1930--are from the WASHINGTON POST, not the NEW YORK TIMES. Did the Washington Post Cooking School invent the "refrigerator cookie" during the Great Depression or just popularize it? 1. Recipe for 'Honey Sweets' Wins First Prize in Post Contest for Mrs. J.W. Schutz; Paula Gruber, Mrs. L.H. Dennis Receive Second, Third Awards; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 5, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs 2. Nourishing Soup Ideal Basis For Student's Midday Meal; Prepared With Beef Foundation, It Provides All the Vegetables and Some of the Protein Needed for a Well Balanced Meal.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 17, 1935; pg. 12, 1 pgs 3. Crisp Cookies On Preferred Dessert List; Choose Recipes That Require No Intricate Mixing or Long Baking.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 3, 1935; pg. 7, 1 pgs 4. Sun-Preserved Strawberries Easily Put Up; Jam That Fruit Going to Waste on Vines; Hints on Cooking Peas.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 11, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs 5. Well-Filled Cookie Crock Puts Stop to Food Raids; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 3, 1935; pg. S8, 1 pgs 6. These Menus Ease Problem Of Lone Diner; Refrigerator Is Decided Help to Woman Who Plans for Herself.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 18, 1935; pg. 11, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 16, 1935; pg. 13, 1 pgs 8. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 12, 1935; pg. 13, 1 pgs 9. Article 1 -- No Title; By Ann Barrett.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 9, 1934; pg. 12, 1 pgs 10. Article 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 23, 1933; pg. 9, 1 pgs matched your search. 11. GOOD COOKIES IN A JAR STILL SPELL HOME TO MILLIONS; By ANN BARRETT; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 18, 1933; pg. 8, 1 pgs 12. Capital Housewives Praise Third Post Cooking School; American Association of University Women Representative Lauds Mrs. Northcross at First Session of Course in Home Economics at Belasco.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 12, 1930; pg. 1, 2 pgs: _Refrigerator Cookies._ 2 cups sugar. 4 cups sifted flour. 1 tablespoon water. 1/3 teaspoon soda. 1 teaspoon vanilla. 1 cup shortening. 1 1/2 cups fine chopped nuts. 1 teaspoon salt. 1 teaspoon cream tartar. 3 eggs. Method from platform. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 08:34:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 04:34:07 -0400 Subject: Juicer; Electric Mixer; Cake Mixer Message-ID: OT: UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA Last one. I have to leave some of these for tomorrow. Dave Kahn (THE CODEBREAKERS) showed up at the NYPL on Saturday. He's giving a cryptography lecture at the University of Pennsylvania on Tuesday, so I have to cancel work and take David Shulman to Philadelphia. Maybe I'll have time to go to the University Archives; anyone wants anything in Philadelphia, let me know. --------------------------------------------------------------- JUICER OED's first citation is 1938, from AMERICAN SPEECH, for the fruit/vegetable "juicer." There were a lot of wrong hits (British="lime juicers"), so I added the search word "kitchen." 1. Gift for Holiday Hostess Easy Shopping Errand; Field of Selection Is Wide and Items Are Readily Purchased With Comforting Prospect of Satisfaction for the Recipient.; By Elizabeth MacRae Boykin.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 15, 1935; pg. S10, 1 pgs 2. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 12, 1935; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Universal Mixer, beater and hand juicer") 3. Display Ad 22 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 20, 1935; pg. 22, 1 pgs 4. Display Ad 23 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 19, 1935; pg. 22, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 29, 1935; pg. 5, 1 pgs 6. Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 4, 1934; pg. B10, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 23, 1934; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Electric Mixer, Beater and Juicer") 8. Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 27, 1932; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("This $19.95 Hamilton Beach Electric Food Mixer and Juicer") 9. Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 20, 1895; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Glass Lemon Juicers...5c ea.") 10. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 4, 1884; pg. 5, 1 pgs (Couldn't find anything!--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ELECTRIC MIXER OED's first "electric mixer" citation is 1933. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 9, 1929; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Dormeyer Electric Mixer and Beater") Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 9, 1928; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("An Electric Mixer like this will mix all sorts of drinks, whip cream, beat eggs and make wonderful dressings. $7.") Mixers in Kitchens Eliminate Much Work; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1928; pg. 10, 1 pgs Classified Ad 20 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1928; pg. 50, 1 pgs ("SALESMEN with car, calling delicatessen stores, new electric food mixer; excellent proposition.") Display Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 1, 1925; pg. 11, 1 pgs: WANAMAKER'S STORE December 2nd "Muffins and Pastry" _Using an Electric Mixer_ December 8th "Cakes" _Using an Electric Mixer_ (TRADEMARKS) (Note that I ran "Hamilton Beach" and "mixer" through the databases, and there were no NEW YORK TIMES or WASHINGTON POST or WALL STREET JOURNAL hits before 1930--ed.) Word Mark HAMILTON BEACH Goods and Services IC 007 009. US 021. G & S: ELECTRIC DRINK MIXERS, ELECTRIC VACUUM CLEANERS, AND ELECTRIC MOTORS FOR SEWING MACHINES. FIRST USE: 19100000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19100000 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 71283192 Filing Date April 29, 1929 Registration Number 0259231 Registration Date July 23, 1929 Owner (REGISTRANT) HAMILTON BEACH MANUFACTURING COMPANY CORPORATION WISCONSIN 1501-1539 RAPIDS DRIVE RACINE WISCONSIN (LAST LISTED OWNER) HAMILTON BEACH, INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF DELAWARE 95 SCOVILL ST. WATERBURY CONNECTICUT 06706 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Renewal 3RD RENEWAL 19890723 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark HAMILTON BEACH Goods and Services IC 007 009. US 021. G & S: ELECTRICAL APPARATUS-NAMELY, DRINK MIXERS, FOOD MIXERS, JUICE EXTRACTORS, VACUUM CLEANERS, GLASS WASHERS, AND ELECTRIC MOTORS FOR SEWING MACHINES AND OTHER FRACTIONAL HORSE POWER ELECTRIC MOTORS. FIRST USE: 19100000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19100000 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 71543362 Filing Date October 7, 1947 Registration Number 0512451 Registration Date July 19, 1949 Owner (REGISTRANT) SCOVILL MANUFACTURING COMPANY CORPORATION CONNECTICUT 1509 RAPIDS DRIVE RACINE WISCONSIN (LAST LISTED OWNER) HAMILTON BEACH, INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF DELAWARE 95 SCOVILL ST. WATERBURY CONNECTICUT 06706 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19890719 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE --------------------------------------------------------------- CAKE MIXER OED has 1877. I'll do more work on this with the American Periodical Series. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 19, 1899; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("SALZMAN'S ROYAL CAKE MIXER AND EGG BEATER." Looks like a spoon to me--ed.) Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 20, 1895; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Tivoli Egg Beaters and Cake Mixers, with Glass Jar...98c ea.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 22:57:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:57:22 -0400 Subject: Meat Tenderizer (1936) Message-ID: Merriam-Webster has 1930 for "tenderizer." OED--ever awful on food--has 1958 for "tenderizer." The March 2002 revision for "meat tenderizer" gives a 1958 date. M-W's date doesn't specify what kind of tenderizer we're taking about. The liquid tenderizer came later in the 1930s, as these cites show. I'll check the American Periodical Series (which has SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN) when I change libaries. New Kitchen Equipment; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 4, 1949; pg. SM46, 2 pgs ("Ten-piece wooden unit for hanging on wall has a French pastry rolling pin, meat tenderizer, etc.") News of Food; Enzyme Derived From Papaya Hailed for Its Ability to Tenderize Tough Meat ; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 8, 1944; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("So much of the meat on the market nowadays is tough that a product known as a 'meat tenderizer' should receive a warm reception. This is a pale yellow liquid derived from the papaya, a tropical fruit that grows in Florida. When applied to beef, lamb, veal, pork or pultry the solution softens the connective tissue and muscle fibers with a 'tenderizing' effect.") Scientists Put Bee On Bee, Find Queen Diets on Vitamin B; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 10, 1939; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("The papaya was suggested as a meat tenderizer. Papain, from the papaya, is the first enzyme crystalized successfully, the report declared." The report is by the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture--ed.) GAIN IN BUSINESS NOTED BY HOTELS; F.A. McKowne, at Opening of National Show, Sees Trend to Greater Prosperity.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1936; pg. 27, 1 pgs: _Among Innovation on View Is a Liquid to Make Steaks More Tender_ (...) The meat "tenderizer" is actually an enzyme, an extract of the fruit of the carica papaya plant, which has been used for centuries by natives in the South Seas. In a few moments the liquid softens the tissue. Classified Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 2, 1936; pg. RE17, 1 pgs (Col. 6: "SALESMEN...'TENDRA,' new liquid meat tenderizer, complying with all pure food laws;...") (WORLDCAT database) Title: Effects of a meat tenderizer on less tender cuts of beef cooked by four methods Author: Hay, Pattie Patrice Libraries with Item: "Effects of a meat tenderi..." KS KANSAS STATE UNIV KKS Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: Effects of a meat tenderizer on less tender cuts of beef cooked by four methods / Author(s): Hay, Pattie Patrice. Year: 1952 Description: 112 leaves : ill. ; 29 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Meat -- Testing. Note(s): Typescript, etc./ Includes bibliographical references (leaves 99-101)./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--Kansas State College, 1952. Responsibility: by Pattie Patrice Hay. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19951010 Update: 20020715 Accession No: OCLC: 33269198 Database: WorldCat Title: Effects of powdered tenderizer on palatability of cuts from beef short loin Author: Larson, Jeanne Ann Libraries with Item: "Effects of powdered tende..." IA IOWA STATE UNIV IWA Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: Effects of powdered tenderizer on palatability of cuts from beef short loin ... / Author(s): Larson, Jeanne Ann. Year: 1956 Description: 71 leaves : ill. ; 29 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Meat. Beef. Note(s): Typescript./ Includes bibliography./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--Iowa State College, 1956. Class Descriptors: LC: TX556.B4 Responsibility: by Jeanne Ann Larson. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19970722 Update: 19970722 Accession No: OCLC: 37334120 Database: WorldCat Title: Kitchen gadgets Author(s): Holloway, Mary. Corp Author(s): Production Guild. ; RMI Media Productions. Publication: Kansas City, Mo. :; RMI Media Productions, Year: 1980 Description: 1 videocassette (16 min.) :; sd., col. ;; 3/4 in. +; teacher's guide + recipes. Language: English Series: Small kitchen equipment ;; RMI-8005; Variation: Small kitchen equipment ;; no. 6. Abstract: Abstract: An educational kit describes a variety of kitchen gadgets, some of which date back almost 100 years. The intended uses, quality, and selection of various kitchen gadgets are discussed. Examples of such gadgets include the meat tenderizer, hamburger patty maker, colander, egg and tomato slicers, salad tongs, can opener, jar lifters, cookie cutters, etc. Numerous kitchen gadgets and their applications are discussed. Preparation of an Obsttorte (both cake and and glaze) using different kitchen gadgets is demonstrated and discussed in detail. (wz) SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Instructional media. Secondary grades. Food preparation, home. Cooking equipment (Small) Cooking utensils. Cooking methods. Home economics. Class Descriptors: LC: TX656.S512 F&N AV Responsibility: Production Guild. Writer, director, Mary Holloway. Material Type: Projected image (pgr); Videorecording (vid); Videocassette (vca) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19840921 Update: 20020706 Accession No: OCLC: 11182790 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 00:16:04 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:16:04 -0400 Subject: She-Crab Soup (1934); Mixed Grill (1910); Refried Beans (1945) Message-ID: SHE-CRAB SOUP "She-crab soup" is a specialty of Charleston. NYU is missing volume four of DARE, so I can't check. OED, ah, doesn't have it. 1. DRIVING TO FLORIDA; Faster and More Comfortable Trip South Possible Following New Construction; By MERRILL FOLSOM; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 9, 1951; pg. 305, 1 pgs (...restaurants serving she-crab soup, shrimp pie, hoppin-john, okra gumbo and other plantation dishes.") 2. Out of My Mind; Coast to Coast; By Katherine Brush; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 22, 1939; pg. AM2, 1 pgs ("...and the she-crab soup they make in Charleston...and the pompano baked in waxed paper at Antoine's in New Orleans...") 3. Charleston, Where Rice and Pedigree Rule; Hospitality of Natives and Climate Add to City's Charm.; By Frances Parkinson Keyes.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 1, 1934; pg. S7, 1 pgs ("'She cralb! She cralb! She cralb!' drones another vender through his nose, the nonchalance of his hearing inspired by his knowledge of the desirability of his wares; for the female of the species is more luscious than the male, and 'She Crab Soup,' as the housewife of Charleston serves it, is worth traveling around the world to taste.") --------------------------------------------------------------- MIXED GRILL I posted "mixed grill" before, but not this citation, I guess. The revised OED (September 2002) has 1913 for "mixed grill." WHERE MUSIC SOOTHES WHILE LOBSTERS BROIL; No Restaurant Is Now Complete Without an Orchestra to Serve Wagner, Bach or Chopin to Tempt the Appetite -- Noted Musicians Draw Big Crowd.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 24, 1910; pg. SM7, 1 pgs (Col. 4: "...the salad and the cheese may be chosen with epicurean taste, but it's a mixed grill every day where the music is concerned, with a little slice of Chopin, maybe, a morsel or Wagner, and a few trimmings of Victor Herbert to garnish up the clatter.") --------------------------------------------------------------- REFRIED BEANS I'll do better. OED has 1957? Article 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 23, 1945; pg. 12, 1 pgs (Recipe for "REFRIED BEANS" is here--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- DOGGY BAG I've cited "doggie bag" before, but the 1943 WASHINGTON POST article about San Francisco sounds about right for the origin. I have several 1947 articles. Bones for Bowser; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 26, 1947; pg. B2, 1 pgs: Now all that is changed. Dinners from which bones may be salvaged are accompanied by a wax-lined paper bag inscribed as follows: _Are you happy over dinner?_ _Don't have all the fun alone._ _Remember the pup who's waiting_ _And take him a luscious bone._ Dogs...; By George Berner; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 12, 1943; pg. R2, 1 pgs ("Naturally the idea would have been barren of results without the full cooperation of the restaurants, so samples of Pet Pakit bags and Pet Pakit bag dispensers were made up and submitted to the San Francisco Restaurant Association, together with an explanation of what they would accomplish.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 00:40:03 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:40:03 -0400 Subject: Wacky Cake (1949); Icebox Pie (1941) Message-ID: WACKY CAKE "Wacky Cake" is in Jean Anderson's AMERICAN CENTURY COOKBOOK. I thought it was a nonce name, but I guess this wacky thing must be recorded. 1. Dead Guy on Campus; THE SECRET HISTORY; By Andrew Rosenheim; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 13, 1992; pg. BR3, 1 pgs 2. Tobe young and in the kitchen page C4; A Child Wants to Cook? Lead the Way if You Can, and Quickly; By TRISH HALL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 2, 1992; pg. C1, 2 pgs 3. Wacky Cake Works; Anne's Reader Exchange; Mrs. J.P., K.D., K.P., Bettle M., Carol B.; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 13, 1969; pg. D9, 1 pgs 4. Wacky Cake Passes a Junior Test; WACKY CAKE; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 7, 1968; pg. D5, 1 pgs 5. Rice Adds Spice; RECOMMENDED; Anne's Exchange; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 14, 1967; pg. D15, 1 pgs 6. Pick Mushrooms Only in Markets; SAVING SALAD; Anne's Reader Exchange, Mrs. I.E., L.H.V. N.J.R., Arlington, Joan R. Adelphi, Md., MRS. P.V. Arlington, A.M. Chevy Chase; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Aug 24, 1967; pg. D11, 1 pgs 7. Wanted: Housekeeping Hints; ANTIQUE APPRAISAL; Anne's Reader Exchange; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 27, 1962; pg. B8, 1 pgs 8. The Egg. . . uAnd You; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Oct 4, 1957; pg. C2, 1 pgs 9. TEEN-AGE FAVORITES; Recipes by winners in Betty Crocker Search -- the American homemakers of tomorrow; by Amy Alden; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 5, 1956; pg. AW19, 1 pgs 10. Anne's Trading Post: Reader Proposes Problem On Early American Decor; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Dec 18, 1955; pg. F16, 1 pgs 11. Display Ad 26 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1949; pg. 23, 1 pgs: _WACKY CAKE_ A favorite recipe of Mrs. Donald Adam. Detroit, Michigan 1 1/2 cups sifted flour 1 cup sugar 2 tablespoons cocoa 1 teaspoon soda 1/2 teaspoon salt 5 tablespoons shortening 1 tablespoon vinegar 1 teaspoon vanilla 1 cup cold water (...) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICEBOX PIE Most "icebox pie" hits are from 1950 on, except for this. Dinner is one dollar? That include dessert? Display Ad 32 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 10, 1941; pg. SA7, 1 pgs ("That's THE BLACK LANTERN INN, now under the management of gracious Margaret Dyer. Try their creamed chicken and waffles, spoonbread and lemon ice box pie. Dinners 1.00 to 1.50. 15 mi. from Memorial Bridge on ROute 50.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 01:00:34 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:00:34 -0400 Subject: "Mulligan" golf shot (1947, 1949) Message-ID: The revised OED (March 2003) has 1949 for the "Mulligan" golf shot. It remains one of our most puzzling name etymologies. Celebrities Find Ball Is Impassive And Elusive on Washington Links; CELEBRITIES FIND GOLF BALL ELUSIVE; By The Associated Press; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 5, 1949; pg. S1, 2 pgs ("The tempo was set on the first tee where the players were permitted mulligans, or second and third shots if necessary, which was often.") Bing Crosby, Sarazen Lead Golf Field; POVICH; By Shirley Povich Post Reporter; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 18, 1947; pg. M8, 2 pgs ("General Eisenhower got away from the first tee gracefully on his second shot, taking advantage of the rule of 'Mulligans,' to smite one far down the middle after hooking his first shot into the trees.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 01:31:29 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:31:29 -0400 Subject: Vinegar Pie (1894); Oyster Shooter (1986) Message-ID: VINEGAR PIE Not in OED. I'll check other databases soon. 14. OUR COOKING CLASS; By Mrs. MARY D. CHAMBERS.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 12, 1924; pg. 11, 1 pgs 15. ROMANCE OF VINEGAR PIE; From McClure's Magazine.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 8, 1905; pg. FP11, 1 pgs 16. PIES AND PIE EATERS; Twenty-five Thousand Consumed Daily Here.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 29, 1903; pg. B10, 1 pgs 17. A WICKED GEORGIA GIRL.; Charged with Planning the Murder of a Young Man.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1896; pg. 5, 1 pgs 18. THE BOOK AGENT AT "THE POINT"; Mrs. Rowley Tells of His Winning Ways and of Sary Ann, "Knowed" for Her Vinegar Pies.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 2, 1894; pg. 21, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- OYSTER SHOOTER This seems to have started in New Orleans, but I don't have a New Orleans newspaper online to work from. I've posted a cite or two before. WHAT'S DOING IN Cincinnati; By LYDIA CHAVEZ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 11, 1988; pg. XX10, 1 pgs (At The Bistro on Vine. "...oyster shooters (a fresh oyster in a chilled shot glass filled with pepper-flavored vodka topped with cocktail sauce and a dollop of sour cream).") My 50 Favorites; La Brasserie is more a serious restaurant than the cafe it used to be. Each season sees new dishes; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Sep 20, 1987; pg. 288, 33 pgs (At the New Orleans Cafe, 1790 Columbia Rd. NW. "...a shooter (an oyster and cocktail sauce in a shot glass of vodka).") (DOW JONES news database) It's a rare Bird that stops Hawks Ron Hudspeth STAFF 05/01/1986 Atlanta Journal and Constitution B/01 . . . . Beginning Friday at the Blue Ribbon Grill, owner Ludlow Porch says, "You can have all the shooters you want and still drive home." The new concoction is an Oyster Shooter. "You simply place the oyster in a shooter glass, slap on your favorite Tabasco or cocktail sauce, and gulp it down in one fell swoop," says Ludlow. . . . From zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Tue Apr 15 02:56:48 2003 From: zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:56:48 -0700 Subject: troops Message-ID: i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary problem. "servicemen" used to work for the purpose, but that was when the troops in question were in fact male. i suppose "servicepeople", clunky though it is, would do. "members of the armed services" says it exactly right, but i can't see that expression sweeping the nation. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From RonButters at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 02:58:23 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:58:23 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Brodie=20book=20(continue?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d)?= Message-ID: In a message dated 3/23/03 1:07:59 AM, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > I'm not allowed to write a book > anybody is allowed to write a book this is a free country From dwhause at JOBE.NET Tue Apr 15 03:18:09 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:18:09 -0500 Subject: troops Message-ID: "Troop" or "trooper" tends to be cavalry slang for soldier, partially adopted by the airborne for paratroopers. Just to add confusion, "troop" is also the cavalry term for what other branches would call a company, around 100-160 soldiers. Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arnold Zwicky" i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 07:26:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 03:26:01 EDT Subject: Road House(1848); Vinegar Pie(1890); Demon Rum(1843); Hubbard Squash Message-ID: ROAD HOUSE John Mariani's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK includes "road house," which is dated to 1855. This is an amusing title where "The Star Rail Road House" could be "The Star Railroad House" or "The Star Rail Roadhouse." The former could have influenced the latter. This "road house" was located in New York City. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The National Police Gazette (1845-1906), New York; Oct 28, 1848; Vol. VOLUME IV., Iss. 0 Advertisement 5 -- No Title; pg. 0_003, 1 pgs: _THE STAR RAIL ROAD HOUSE_ Kept by Treadwell Seaman No. 485 4th Avenue, between 96th and 97th street, with Boarding and Lodging is fitted up with Billiard and Bowling saloons which cannot exceeded (sic) in the upper section of this city. --------------------------------------------------------------- VINEGAR PIE Here's "vinegar pie" a little earlier than previously posted--and from SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN! (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Oct 25, 1890; Vol. Vol. LXIII., Iss. 0 Fun among Editors.; pg. 257, 1 pgs ("The argument as far as yet carried on appears to merit the dubious compliment which was paid to Aunt Sally's vinegar pie, 'Very good what there is of it, and plenty of it such as it is.'") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- DEMON RUM Literature Online has a little earlier than 1845 for "demon rum": Pierpont, John, 1785-1866 BEGONE VILE RUM. 2Kb, [from Cold water melodies, and Washingtonian songster (1843)] Found 1 hit: ...But I tell thee, murderous demon, Rum, Thou never shalt have... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- HUBBARD SQUASH OED has 1868 for "Hubbard Squash." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: New Hampshire state agricultural society. Title: Transactions of the New Hampshire state agricultural society, 1850/52-1860, with condensed reports of county societies... Publication date: 1853-[61] Search results: 2 matches in full text Page 51 - 1 term matching "Hubbard squash" ("...6 Hubbard Squash...") Page 52 - 1 term matching "Hubbard squash" (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) 25 March 1865, SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, pg. 200 Solon Robinson read a letter from a man saying that he finds it impossible to get his Hubbard squash vines to produce more than one squash at a hill, though he had tried pinching off the laterals and other plans. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- EGG TIMER OED has 1884, but I'd check that citation again. Here are two 1886 patent applications. 6 January 1886, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: BROOKLYN INVENTORS. (...) John H. Ernst, egg timer. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jan 16, 1886; Vol. Vol. LIV., Iss. 0 MISCELLANEOUS INVENTIONS.; pg. 42, 1 pgs ("An egg timer has been patented by Mr. William H. Silver, of New York city.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 07:50:17 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 03:50:17 EDT Subject: "Tishpishti" for Passover; "Colomba Pasquale" for Easter Message-ID: The wonderful people at the MTA close the Columbia University subway station at nights and on weekends (as well as the 110th and 103rd Street stops), so I walk down to 96th Street. The Silver Moon Bakery is at 2740 Broadway, at West 105th Street. This is in the window: FOR PASSOVER: Flourless Chocolate Cake Apricot Tart Macaroons (french, chocolate, coconut) French Meringues Lace Matzos Tishpishti FOR EASTER: Vanilla Easter Egg Chocolate Mousse Easter Egg Bunny Cookie Dove of Peace Easter Bread (Colomba Pasquale) Neither "tishpishti" nor "Easter dove" (Colomba di Pasqua) is in OED. Here are some web sites: http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/rfcj/PESACH-CAKESandPIES/Cake_Nut_Cake_with_Syrup _1_Sephardic_Tishpishti_-_pareve.html http://www.milioni.com/ricingl/dati/502.htm From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 08:43:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 04:43:09 EDT Subject: Tipsy Parson (1848) Message-ID: OED has "tipsy cake" to 1807. In the U.S., it's also called "tipsy parson," and this is the first I've seen of that name. It appears derive from these two stories in GODEY'S LADY'S BOOK. March, 1848 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XXXVI page 141 A << TIPSY PARSON>> . BY KATE SUTHERLAND. Ix a village not a hundred miles from Philadelphia, resided the Rev. Mr. Manlius, who had the pastoral charge of a very respectable congregation, and was highly esteemed by them; but there was one thing in which he did not give general satisfaction, and in consequence of which many excellent members of his church felt seriously scandalized. He would neither join a temperance society, nor omit his glass of wine when he felt inclined to take it. It is only fair to say, however, that such spirituous indulgences were not of frequent occurrence. It was more the principle of the thing, as he said, that he stood upon, than anything else, that prevented his signing a temperance pledge. (...) May, 1848 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XXXVI page 257 (...) Uncle John, after reading the little extract just quoted, opened the magazine in another part, and said with a smile "'A << Tipsy Parson>> !' Why what's this?" All became silent with interest, and Uncle John read the story aloud. The listeners were as grave as the assembly of deacons that sat on the case of the Rev. Mr. Manlius, until the denouement came, and then there was as free a gust of merriment as distinguished that grave body when the "<< tipsy>> << parson>> " at Mrs. Reeside's party turned out to be only a sponge cake soaked in brandy. "Capital!" said Mr. Martin. "First ratw!" said William. "A funny affair!" said Aunt Edith. While Lilly laughed, more for joy at finding her Lady's Book so highly approved, than at the humorous incident just read. (...) From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 15 14:43:05 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:43:05 -0500 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: In a TV news report I heard not only "seven troops" but also "one troop", referring to an individual soldier. I think it was on one of the cable channels, but I don't remember which one. It struck me as normal analogical development involving back formation, but one that's still a ways short of acceptance. However, once one newsreader or expert uses such a word, it's often not long before others pick it up. I look forward to hearing other singular uses of "troop" for "soldier". Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Arnold Zwicky Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:57 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: troops i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary problem. "servicemen" used to work for the purpose, but that was when the troops in question were in fact male. i suppose "servicepeople", clunky though it is, would do. "members of the armed services" says it exactly right, but i can't see that expression sweeping the nation. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 15 15:15:42 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:15:42 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: > i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the > news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me > (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more > generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one > troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? I would say the editors of the big reference grammars are well behind the times. "Troops" is extremely common as a countable noun. Sentences like, "50,000 troops have been sent to the Gulf" can be found throughout the news media. The only thing different about this particular usage is that it is a very small number. AHD4 includes this countable sense (1.b). The AP Stylebook warns against using "soldier" to denote a marine and suggests "troops" as an alternative, but doesn't say anything about countability. > now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New > York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were > five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so > "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed > to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT > described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary > problem. "Soldier" is often informally used to refer to a military person of any service, but this can become confusing with the US military jargon sense which limits its use to Army personnel. In this case, however, "seven soldiers" is proper in all contexts as the two pilots were Army helicopter pilots. The Air Force counterpart to soldier, sailor, or marine is "airman." All four services have pilots, although the Navy calls them "aviators" to avoid confusion with the guys who drive ships in and out of ports. From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 15:42:23 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:42:23 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: As discussed on this list awhile ago, "Folks" has undergone the same evolution at about the same time, and I still react to it the way Arnold did to "seven troops." ("Huh? Can they do that?!!") Only troop(s) seems to have gone a step further, since I'm sure I haven't heard *"one folk." Peter Mc. --On Monday, April 14, 2003 7:56 PM -0700 Arnold Zwicky wrote: > i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the > news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me > (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more > generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one > troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? > > now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New > York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were > five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so > "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed > to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT > described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary > problem. > > "servicemen" used to work for the purpose, but that was when the > troops in question were in fact male. i suppose "servicepeople", > clunky though it is, would do. "members of the armed services" says > it exactly right, but i can't see that expression sweeping the nation. > > arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 17:00:19 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:00:19 EDT Subject: troops Message-ID: In my long-ago Army service (1969-1971) the unit I was in used "troop" as a singular to mean one soldier. Most often it was in the expression "a strack troop" meaning a soldier who was ready to pass inspection at any time. (I have yet to find out where "strack" came from). I don't know how widespread this usage was. Possibly it was a local usage, as was "No alligators. No hermit crabs" (the CO's catch-phrase after one of each had been found during a surprise barracks inspection.) - Jim Landau From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 17:13:02 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:13:02 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: When my brother was in basic at Fort Leonard Wood (known to the troops as Fort Lost-in-the-Woods) in the 50s, he was often addressed as "young troop" by his superiors. Peter Richardson From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 15 17:29:02 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:29:02 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <1dc.7890d96.2bcd94a3@aol.com> Message-ID: > In my long-ago Army service (1969-1971) the unit I was in > used "troop" as a singular to mean one soldier. Most > often it was in the expression "a strack troop" meaning > a soldier who was ready to pass inspection at any time. > (I have yet to find out where "strack" came from). "STRAC" is an old military acronym for "Skilled, Trained/Tough, Ready Around the Clock." It began life as an official acronym for "Strategic Army Corps/Command" in the 1950s. This was an army unit that was to be quickly deployed to trouble spots around the world. The term was later morphed in the above form as a motto for this unit and later various other military units. STRAC (sometimes "strack") passed into general Army use as an adjective meaning a soldier who had it together. It was revived recently in official use as an acronum for "Standards in Training Commission." From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 17:37:13 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:37:13 -0700 Subject: strack--was troops In-Reply-To: <1dc.7890d96.2bcd94a3@aol.com> Message-ID: Strack is German, meaning 'straight, taut.' It's usually used these days in schnurstracks 'straight as an arrow' (lit. straight as a string); you'd go schnurstracks to the office of some official, for example, to complain about something. Maybe 'make a bee-line' would be an appropriate dictionary entry for _schnurstracks gehen_. PR On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, James A. Landau wrote: > In my long-ago Army service (1969-1971) the unit I was in used "troop" as a > singular to mean one soldier. Most often it was in the expression "a strack > troop" meaning a soldier who was ready to pass inspection at any time. (I > have yet to find out where "strack" came from). > > I don't know how widespread this usage was. Possibly it was a local usage, > as was "No alligators. No hermit crabs" (the CO's catch-phrase after one of > each had been found during a surprise barracks inspection.) > > - Jim Landau > From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 17:39:10 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:39:10 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <002e01c30374$8285ead0$0300a8c0@HPN5290> Message-ID: Well, I stand--or sit--corrected. Thanks for the enlightening post, Dave. PR > "STRAC" is an old military acronym for "Skilled, Trained/Tough, Ready Around > the Clock." From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 15 18:05:46 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:05:46 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wouldn't be surprised if the phrase was also influenced by the German word (which I didn't know about). After all, there were lots of US troops in Germany. The "strack" spelling, in particular, could be a conflation of the two words. > Well, I stand--or sit--corrected. Thanks for the enlightening > post, Dave. > > PR > > > "STRAC" is an old military acronym for "Skilled, > Trained/Tough, Ready Around > > the Clock." From mkuha at BSU.EDU Wed Apr 16 01:29:22 2003 From: mkuha at BSU.EDU (Mai Kuha) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:29:22 -0500 Subject: you guys Message-ID: Just in case there is any doubt about whether the meaning of "you guys" includes the feature [+male], here's what a male student said in class today as we discussed gender differences in language (this is not an exact quote, but very close): "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" -mai From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 04:05:21 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:05:21 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Just in case there is any doubt about whether the meaning of "you guys" >includes the feature [+male], here's what a male student said in class today >as we discussed gender differences in language (this is not an exact quote, >but very close): "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to >deal with!" > >-mai And for an interesting NON-vocative example I'm still pondering, here's Geno Auriemma, coach of UConn's national champion women's basketball squad (Go Huskies!), in a WFAN radio interview on 2/3/03, bemoaning the fact that this year's team was less deep than usual so his substitutes couldn't give his five superb starters a a good test when practicing: We bring *guys* in because it's hard to go 5 guys against 5 guys in practice. --the first "guys" is [+ male], the second two obviously not. Larry From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 07:05:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 03:05:11 EDT Subject: OT: David Shulman at Univ. of Pennsylvania Message-ID: http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/events.html "Deciphering the Past," an exhibit at the Van Pelt Library at the University of Pennsylvania, opened yesterday (April 15th). The curators relied heavily on this book: Call # JFD 76-7531 Author Shulman, David. Title An annotated bibliography of cryptography / David Shulman. Imprint New York : Garland Pub., 1976. LOCATION CALL # STATUS Humanities-Genrl Res JFD 76-7531 Location Humanities-Genrl Res Descript 388 p. in various pagings : ill. ; 23 cm. Series Garland reference library of the humanities, v. 37 Note Includes index. Subject Cryptography -- Bibliography. I canceled work to take David Shulman there. He also met a scrabble friend in Philadelphia who contributed to Merriam-Webster's Scrabble Dictionary. We had a late dinner on U. of Penn. Check it out on the sixth floor if you're in that library. Also, if anyone has any publishing ideas for his manuscript papers on Steve Brodie , please let me know. I feel strongly that Oxford should publish the book, or at least listen to him. His fifty-year record with Oxford should mean SOMETHING. If it helps the publishing any: Shulman is not only an OED contributor and a cryptographer, but he was a CIA spy who plotted to kill Simon Winchester and who murdered Chuck Barris after watching "The Dating Game.". From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 07:21:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 03:21:44 EDT Subject: Superspreader, Supershedder; Mevushal Message-ID: SUPERSPREADER, SUPERSHEDDER From the NEW YORK TIMES, 15 April 2003, pg. D1, col. 2: For some diseases, including tuberculosis, smallpox and staphylococcus infections, superspreaders definitely exist. They have been variously called "superinfectors," "supershedders" and even "cloud cases" for the mist of invisible droplets trailing them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- MEVUSHAL Again, "mevushal" is not in the revised OED. Was it even considered? From Wednesday's (today's) NEW YORK TIMES Dining In/Dining Out section: Still, there is the business of boiling the grape juice, which some believe is the key to making a wine kosher. This is not quite accurate. There are two levels of kosher wine, one made through the normal method of winemaking and one made with an additional process. A kosher wine is produced with equipment and machinery used exclusively for the wine, and only Sabbath-observant Jews may handle the grapes from the time they are crushed until the wine is bottled. Many kosher wines undergo one more step, to be made mevushal, or pasteurized. The origin of making wines mevushal is believed to date to ancient times, when wines were cooked so they could not be used in pagan worship. In the Middle Ages, some say, rabbis required wine to be boiled as an effort to keep young Jews from socializing, and sharing wine, with non-Jews. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 07:47:46 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 03:47:46 EDT Subject: "Iceing" on a cake (pre-1740) Message-ID: Author: Petre, D. Title: Recipe book : manuscript, 1705. Description: Archival/Manuscript Material 1 v. (106 leaves) : paper ; 18 cm. URL: http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/codex/public/PageLevel/index.cfm?WorkID=4 3 Web Link: Facsimile Location: Rare Book & Ms Library Manuscripts Call Number: Ms. Codex 624 Author: Kidder, E. (Edward), 1665 or 6-1739. Title: Receipts of Pastry and Cookery for the Use of his Scholars : manuscript, [17--] / by Ed. Kidder. Description: Archival/Manuscript Material 1 v. (37 leaves) : paper ; 19 cm. URL: http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/codex/public/PageLevel/index.cfm?WorkID=4 4 Web Link: Facsimile Location: Rare Book & Ms Library Manuscripts Call Number: Ms. Codex 625 I asked the Rare Book Room of the University of Pennsylvania's Van Pelt Library about Philadelphia history digitization projects, but there's not much going on. Certainly, no newspapers are coming online, such as the NEW YORK TIMES or BROOKLYN EAGLE for New York City. The above two cookbooks are online right now. Check them out. OED has 1769 for "icing". Merriam-Webster has "circa 1740" for "icing." "Iceing" is in the Kidder book, on page 23 or 24. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 13:05:29 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:05:29 EDT Subject: you guys Message-ID: Overheard recently, in a conversation in a group of sixteen-year-old girls: "Cramps? I just tough them out. It's a macho thing." - Jim Landau From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Wed Apr 16 15:15:30 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:15:30 -0400 Subject: Superspreader, Supershedder; Mevushal Message-ID: The Globe and Mail had "super-spreader" last week: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030408.wsars0409/BNStory/N ational/ Lexis-Nexis has cites as far back as 1983. Paul From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 16 16:24:49 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:24:49 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur Message-ID: The lead editorial in this week's _New York Observer_ takes the _National Review_ to task for using _shyster_ in a headline. They call it "a deplorable and demeaning word which has traditionally been loaded with anti-Semitism," and make some etymological comments that will no doubt upset Professor Cohen. It's online at http://www.observer.com, via the link to the "Opinions" section; the site uses some frame system so I can't provide a direct link. Jesse Sheidlower OED From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 16:58:24 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:58:24 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur In-Reply-To: <20030416162449.GA8901@panix.com> Message-ID: >The lead editorial in this week's _New York Observer_ takes >the _National Review_ to task for using _shyster_ in a >headline. They call it "a deplorable and demeaning word which >has traditionally been loaded with anti-Semitism," and make >some etymological comments that will no doubt upset Professor >Cohen. I remember Jerry's and Barry's postings on _shyster_, and the evidence for its derivation from the earlier cant word _shiser_ and, ultimately, from Ger. _Scheisser_ (= someone worth shit). But the "loaded with anti-Semitism" claim seems not to state an incorrect etymological theory (although From what Jesse says there's an incorrect theory provided in the article as well) as much as describe what A. W. Read would have called the "trajectory" of the lexical item through history. Can we assume that this, if true, involves the interference between _shyster_ and Shylock? (This would amount to a Jewish version of the "niggardly" flap from a few years ago.) Or is something else going on? Larry From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 16 17:04:47 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:04:47 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 12:58:24PM -0400, Laurence Horn wrote: > > I remember Jerry's and Barry's postings on _shyster_, and the > evidence for its derivation from the earlier cant word _shiser_ and, > ultimately, from Ger. _Scheisser_ (= someone worth shit). But the > "loaded with anti-Semitism" claim seems not to state an incorrect > etymological theory (although From what Jesse says there's an > incorrect theory provided in the article as well) as much as describe > what A. W. Read would have called the "trajectory" of the lexical > item through history. Can we assume that this, if true, involves > the interference between _shyster_ and Shylock? (This would amount > to a Jewish version of the "niggardly" flap from a few years ago.) The article does draw a connection between _shyster_ and Shylock. A direct link (I've now discovered) is at: http://www.observer.com/pages/editorials.asp Anyone have opinions on the anti-Semitic flavor of the word, etymology aside? Jesse Sheidlower OED From dcamp911 at JUNO.COM Wed Apr 16 17:02:40 2003 From: dcamp911 at JUNO.COM (Duane Campbell) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:02:40 -0400 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for "Nothing is ever easy"? Thanks. D From editor at VERBATIMMAG.COM Wed Apr 16 17:17:52 2003 From: editor at VERBATIMMAG.COM (Erin McKean) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:17:52 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: <20030416.130244.-218755.1.dcamp911@juno.com> Message-ID: I would use "nil sine labore." (There's not a good example in Amo, Amas, Amat.) Erin McKean editor at verbatimmag.com >Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for >"Nothing is ever easy"? > >Thanks. > >D From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 18:14:03 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:14:03 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" in Golf In-Reply-To: <1da.7536342.2bc8b997@aol.com> Message-ID: Perhaps Barry can beat this using the Washington Post... birdie. n. (OED, 2., 1921) 192 _N.Y. Times_ 12 Sept. 10 There is practically no special American golf slang. They talk about shooting a round in a certain score, and when they play a hole under par they call it "Birdie." Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 18:16:30 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:16:30 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" in Golf (Corrected Posting) Message-ID: Perhaps Barry can beat this using the Washington Post... birdie. n. (OED, 2., 1921) 1912 _N.Y. Times_ 5 Sept. 10 There is practically no special American golf slang. They talk about shooting a round in a certain score, and when they play a hole under par they call it "Birdie." Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 16 18:16:34 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:16:34 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" in Golf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 02:14:03PM -0400, Fred Shapiro wrote: > > Perhaps Barry can beat this using the Washington Post... > > > birdie. n. (OED, 2., 1921) > > 192 _N.Y. Times_ 12 Sept. 10 There is practically no special American ^^^ I don't think the WP goes back that far.... > golf slang. They talk about shooting a round in a certain score, and when > they play a hole under par they call it "Birdie." Jesse Sheidlower OED From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 18:26:04 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:26:04 EDT Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur Message-ID: In a message dated 4/16/2003 1:05:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, jester at PANIX.COM writes: > The article does draw a connection between _shyster_ and Shylock A phonetic connection between "shyster" and "shylock" seems rather strained to me. The second syllables diverge too much. Much more likely, it seems to me, is a phonetic conection between "shyster" and the surname "Shuster" which is frequently assumed to be a Jewish name. Maybe this is because I once was acquainted with a man named Shuster, who was in a business deal with some friends of mine that went sour and into court. My friends called him "Shuster the shyster" although he was neither a lawyer nor the plaintiff. Interesting to note that "a pound of flesh" has become such a cliche that it is frequently used by people who do not consciously realize that it is from "Merchant of Venice", and in fact some users of the cliche are totally ignorant of the origin of the term. From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 18:29:38 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:29:38 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" as a Verb In-Reply-To: <20030416181634.GA328@panix.com> Message-ID: birdie, v. (OED 1956) 1926 _N.Y. Times_ 18 Oct. 27 Sarazen chopped off another when he birdied on a par 3. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mam at THEWORLD.COM Wed Apr 16 20:50:11 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:50:11 -0400 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <000401c3035d$59fcfde0$1c15fea9@ibm12258> Message-ID: This usage is nothing new. I seem to recall being prescriptively warned against this in my high school grammar books in the early sixties. That doesn't mean I like it! -- Mark A. Mandel From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 16 22:20:06 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:20:06 -0500 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur Message-ID: I see several people have already responded on "shyster." The phonetic similarity of "shyster" and "Shylock" is merely coincidence. And in spoken usage I do not see "shyster" as limited in any way to just Jewish lawyers. Dishonest lawyers/businessmen/etc. of *any* confession may appropriately be termed "shysters." "Shyster" is such a forcefully expressive word that it would be a shame to see it marginalized by misapplied political correctness. It is the main lexical contribution of crusading NYC editor of _The Subterranean_ (1843-1844ff), Mike Walsh. The term derives from British cant "shiser" (= somebody worthless), which in turn derives from German "Scheisser" (same meaning, as in: "ein alter Scheisser"), ultimately from German Scheisse (excrement). So, leave "shyster" alone. Our language will be poorer (and unjustifiably so), if the term is ruled inadmissable in print or vigorous speech. Gerald Cohen author of _Origin of the Term "Shyster"_, (Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang Verlag, 1982); _Origin of the Term "Shyster": Supplementary Information_ (Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang, 1984); "'Shyster' Again--An Update", in: _Studies in Slang_, part 2, 1989 (Frankfurt a.M.: Peter Lang; edited by Gerald Leonard Cohen), pp. 91-96; "Update on 'Shyster', in _Studies in Slang, part 5_, 1997 (Frankfurt a.M.: Peter Lang), pp.152-159--information primarily from Barry Popik; "Update on 'Shyster'--co-authored with Barry Popik, _Studies in Slang_, part 6, 1999 (Frankfurt a.M.: Peter Lang),pp.31-40. >At 12:24 PM -0400 4/16/03, Jesse Sheidlower wrote: > >The lead editorial in this week's _New York Observer_ takes >the _National Review_ to task for using _shyster_ in a >headline. They call it "a deplorable and demeaning word which >has traditionally been loaded with anti-Semitism," and make >some etymological comments that will no doubt upset Professor >Cohen. > >It's online at http://www.observer.com, via the link to the >"Opinions" section; the site uses some frame system so I >can't provide a direct link. > >Jesse Sheidlower >OED From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 17 00:47:59 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:47:59 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The phonetic similarity of "shyster" and "Shylock" is merely coincidence. >And in spoken usage I do not see "shyster" as limited in any way to >just Jewish lawyers. Dishonest lawyers/businessmen/etc. of *any* >confession may appropriately be termed "shysters." > > "Shyster" is such a forcefully expressive word that it would be a >shame to see it marginalized by misapplied political correctness. .... > > So, leave "shyster" alone. Our language will be poorer (and >unjustifiably so), if the term is ruled inadmissable in print or >vigorous speech. I agree. I have never perceived "shyster" as having any ethnic/religious connection, and I've never heard anybody suggest such a thing. A better argument could be made for "shylock" = "loan-shark" although in my experience this too lacks any Semitic or anti-Semitic character in popular use. -- Doug Wilson From dwhause at JOBE.NET Thu Apr 17 01:10:53 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:10:53 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane Campbell" Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for "Nothing is ever easy"? From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 17 01:36:17 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Nomme de Cybre Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 17 01:36:17 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: first American cookbook? Message-ID: This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion Cunningham's column: "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all grades of life." The title may have been longer than the book... Rima From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Thu Apr 17 01:57:30 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:57:30 -0400 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Isn't there a sort of disagreement between "nullus" and "facile"? "Nihil" or "Nil" (as Erin McKean said) may be better. T. M. P. www.paikeday.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hause" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Latin help, please? > I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." > Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net > Ft. Leonard Wood, MO > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duane Campbell" > > Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for > "Nothing is ever easy"? > From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Thu Apr 17 02:05:32 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:05:32 -0700 Subject: first American cookbook? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I look at the excerpt quoted by Rima and wonder - when were nouns no longer capitalized in English? Was there a turning point, or was this a gradual occurrence? I note that some words (like English) are still capitalized, but most others (pastes, puffs, pies) are not. cheers - Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Kim & Rima McKinzey Sent: April 16, 2003 6:36 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: first American cookbook? This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion Cunningham's column: "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all grades of life." The title may have been longer than the book... Rima From self at TOWSE.COM Thu Apr 17 02:14:05 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:14:05 -0700 Subject: first American cookbook? Message-ID: Kim & Rima McKinzey wrote: > > This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion > Cunningham's column: > > "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published > in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was > called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, > Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, > Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from > the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all > grades of life." > > The title may have been longer than the book... I checked to make sure Cunningham hadn't mentioned it, because I'd run across this cookbook online earlier this year. Images of this cookbook's pages are available online through Feeding America: The American Cookbook Project at Michigan State. Fun stuff. Some of the books are searchable by recipe title and ingredient. Popping "lemon pudding" (the subject of Cunningham's column) into the search brings interesting results. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From dwhause at JOBE.NET Thu Apr 17 02:45:03 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:45:03 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Couldn't argue that; most recent Latin class being a little short of 39 years ago. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas M. Paikeday" Isn't there a sort of disagreement between "nullus" and "facile"? "Nihil" or "Nil" (as Erin McKean said) may be better. T. M. P. www.paikeday.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hause" > I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." > Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net > Ft. Leonard Wood, MO > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duane Campbell" > > Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for > "Nothing is ever easy"? > From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 03:48:37 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:48:37 -0400 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: <020d01c3048b$59a42240$b6bf22d0@dwhause> Message-ID: >Couldn't argue that; most recent Latin class being a little short of 39 >years ago. >Dave Likewise, but I agree with Tom that "facilis" would be the appropriate form to modify "nullus", and that in any case "ni(hi)l" would be better than "nullus" (and would also allow neuter "facile" as a modifier). I wouldn't wager my cat on it, though. Larry >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Thomas M. Paikeday" > > >Isn't there a sort of disagreement between "nullus" and "facile"? "Nihil" or >"Nil" (as Erin McKean said) may be better. >T. M. P. >www.paikeday.net > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Hause" > >> I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." >> Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net >> Ft. Leonard Wood, MO >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Duane Campbell" >> >> Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for >> "Nothing is ever easy"? >> From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 17 07:43:42 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:43:42 -0400 Subject: FW: first American cookbook? Message-ID: What Rima McK says below is true, and it is also the case that the book was published in Hartford, Connecticut. Betcha didn't know that Hartford was the home of American cooking, huh? Frank Abate author, Connecticut Trivia (2001) ************************* This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion Cunningham's column: "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all grades of life." The title may have been longer than the book... Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 10:37:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:37:06 EDT Subject: Chianti (1805); CPL & NYPL Message-ID: Another Passover with the family. My nephew, who has autism, is now 170 pounds. He's only 11...My niece read a passage ("...out of Egypt, a nation great, mighty, and numerous") and said: "brought us out of Egypt, a nation great, mighty, and humorous." Holy Moses! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- CHIANTI A PRACTICAL TREATISE ON BREWING, DISTILLING AND RECITIFICATION ...WITH A COPIOUS APPENDIX ON THE CULTURE AND PREPARATION OF FOREIGN WINES, BRANDIES, AND VINEGARS by R. Shannon London: Robert Scholey 1805 OED and Merriam-Webster have 1833 for "Chianti." The OXFORD COMPANION TO WINE says "Chianti" has been around since 1398. APPENDIX: Pg. 146: ...Those of the hills are a very pleasant drink about Christmas, and during the spring; but until June the Chiantis are not esteemed to be fit for drinking, though they are fit for exportation in butts in December;... Pg. 146: (OED accuses me of breaking up sentences, but much of the stuff runs like this--ed.) The art of brewing, or making-up, wines (further than the throwing into each great butt the quantity of two or three hatsful of the choicest grapes they had preserved, and laid on mats in the sun for that purpose, which were picked from the stalks, and are esteemed (Pg. 147--ed.) proper for their wines to feed on, and which they call governo) was not known in Chianti, (though the hosts here practised something like it, mixing the small wines of the country, with the strong ones of other parts; and fining their white-wines with isinglass, whites of eggs, lime, and the like; and were thought to put alum into their red wines to preserve them, and promote a thirst in their guests) till on the breaking out of the first French war, an English merchant from _Bourdeaux_ came into these parts, with a view to accommodate the wines which were made in the best part of Chianti, and were naturally as bright as a ruby, with a pleasant _flavour_, and a silky softness, to the English palates, then in love with the deep-coloured rough clarets; who instructed them first in the making of black wines, with the Labrusco, or wild grape; which being mixed with the Chiantis, gave them a deeper colour, and a rougher taste; and being liked in England, gave the first occasion to great quantities being sent, thither every year in casks; in the making of which the said gentleman was the first that instructed them; for before, their casks were, as aboved related, very unwieldy. Pg. 164: The Morillon Taconne, or Munier, _i. e._ the _Miller's Grape_; this is called the _Burgundy_ grape in England. The leaves of this sort are very much powdered with white, especially in the spring, when they first come out, from whence it had the name of the _Miller's Grape_. It produces middle-size black grapes, which grow close upon the bunches, and are generally short and thick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- CHICAGO PUBLIC LIBRARY I've now used the Chicago Public Library's e-mail reference twice. The first time, as you know, I told the CPL that its "Windy City" explanation was wrong. I got a response that I posted here. At least one "Windy City" definition was supposed to have been changed, but _nothing_ has been changed: http://www.chipublib.org/008subject/005genref/faqwindy.html http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/chinicknames.html Recently, I asked the CPL about the CHICAGO TRIBUNE from ProQuest. Often, an organization such as the Chicago Public Library will be given an advance, beta-testing version of the product. I have since gotten an answer from ProQuest that I posted here, about a month ago. The CPL's web page says that it responds in a week. FWIW, I finally got a CPL response: Subj: Response from CPL E-Mail Reference Team Date: 4/16/2003 5:07:23 PM Eastern Standard Time From: refdesk at chipublib.org To: Bapopik at aol.com Dear Mr. Barry Popik: We are contacting you in reply to your E-Mail reference question. Your question was: full text version of Chicago Tribune from ProQuest Answer: We checked among our colleagues here and found that the only full text version of the Chicago Tribune available through ProQuest is for a few years previous to 1997. The Tribune itself began indexing only in 1972. The years 1972 through the mid 1980s are indexed in book form. Previous to 1972, there is no in-depth indexing of this newspaper at all. The Tribune is involved currently in preparing a retrospective index. We are not sure when this will be completed, or exactly which years it will cover. Called the Chicago Tribune Historical Archive, it is available to us in an abbreviated form. We find often that it is spotty in its coverage An event or person may, or may not, appear.If you have a particular item for us to search, we would be glad to see if we could find it. Source: CPL information and policy We hope this information is useful and you will use CPL E-Mail Reference in the future. CPL E-Mail Reference Team ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY Mayor Michael Bloomberg has announced his doomsday budget, so I guess I should be happy that any library is open at any time. As I've said before, almost all of my food books are off-site, either in the annex (on West 43rd Street) or in New Jersey. A Thursday request will get there on Tuesday afternoon at the earliest. Look at the following: Call # CIS *XLF-373 US Exec MF A1003-68 Title Description of some Chinese vegetable food materials and their nutritive and economic value [microform]. Imprint [Washington, D.C.] : U.S. G.P.O., 1899. LOCATION CALL # STATUS SIBL CIS *XLF-373 US Exec MF A1003-68 Location SIBL Govt. doc# A 10.3:68 Descript 48 p. : ill. ; cm. Series Experiment Station Bull. No. 68 Experiment Stations Office Pub. No. 301 US Executive Branch Documents, 1789-1909; no. A1003-68 Note [With data] References CIS Index to U.S. Executive Branch Documents, 1789-1909 Part 4 Note Microfiche. [Bethesda, Md.]: Congressional Information Service, 1993. 11 x 15 cm. (CIS US Executive Branch Documents, 1789-1909: no. A1003-68) Subject Vegetables, Chinese. Add'l name Blasdale, Walter Charles, b. 1871. Sounds great. Maybe there's "snow peas." It's not available. Not only that, but the whole microfilm shelf (the VARIETIES OF CHEESE microfilm is around this call number) of agricultural publications is missing. EVERYTHING IS MISSING. I went from librarian to librarian to librarian. The stuff just disappeared without a trace. Recently, I requested stuff like this: Call # VPZ (United States. Dept. of agriculture. Department bulletin. no.1282) Author Wood, Milo N. (Milo Nelson), 1883- Title Almond varieties in the United States / by Milo N. Wood. Imprint Washington, D.C. : U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, 1924. LOCATION CALL # STATUS Humanities-Genrl Res VPZ (United States. Dept. of agriculture. Department bulletin. no.1282) Location Humanities-Genrl Res Descript 142 p., 26 p. of plates : ill., 1 map ; 24 cm. Series Department bulletin (United States. Dept. of Agriculture) ; no. 1282. Note Cover title. "December, 1924." Subject Almond -- United States -- Varieties. Again, check the call number. I requested a large number of Department of Agriculture publications, from MARKETING LETTUCE to SOY AND RELATED FERMENTATIONS to MARKETING PEANUTS to RETAIL MARKETING OF MEATS to MARKETING CREAMERY BUTTER to MARKETING CABBAGE to SOME NEW VARIETIES OF RICE to THE NAVEL ORANGE OF BAHIA. Absolutely essential, wonderful stuff. Naturally, all were off-site. And I got back-- nothing. First, the materials were supposed to be at the 43rd Street annex. Then, New Jersey was searched. I checked back day after day after day. Librarians were working on it. Today, I got a response that was e-mailed to 20 librarians for me: "After a thorough search for Mr. Popik's material VPZ U.S. Dept. of Agri., Bull #'s, the final report to Mr. Popik would be the material is _unavailable_." Everything is unavailable. They just don't know where any of the books are. A librarian handed me the e-mail and said, "I feel that we've failed you." Which all means that some time next week, and probably frequently, I'll go again to the Library of Congress. I like to look up a missing book (or two) at the LOC. But we're talking about a LOT of books here. Trips to Washington take time and aren't free. Just a minute, I need some "bread of affliction" here... From mkuha at BSU.EDU Thu Apr 17 12:01:14 2003 From: mkuha at BSU.EDU (Mai Kuha) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:01:14 -0500 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you guys" is used to address all women, and only women. -Mai From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Thu Apr 17 12:11:57 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:11:57 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not particularly interesting up here in the frozen North (East Lansing); such usage is common. More recently, even "guys" without "you" has moved into this territory. I heard a young woman yell to friends of hers just the other day "Hey Guys! Wait up! Even this may have been around here longer than I think (since my principal channels of communication are with aged graduate students and colleagues). dInIs To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you guys" is used to address all women, and only women. -Mai -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 12:53:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:53:49 EDT Subject: Mission Fig & Smyrna Fig (1888) Message-ID: "Mission fig" is not in the revised OED. I've had this around for a while now thinking I could do better, but might as well post it. Every book mentions "mission fig." FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION: "...hence the now-popular Mission fig." OXFORD COMPANION TO FOOD: "In 1769 the Franciscan mission at San Diego was founded and began to grow a Spanish black common fig which (under the names of Mission or Franciscana) came to be a leading variety." Mariani's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK: "...the Mission fig owes it name to the Spanish missions set up in California, in the 1700s, where 100 percent of the fig crop is cultivated, predominantly around Madera, Fresno, and Merced counties. Today the most important varieties of figs cultivated are the 'mission,' 'Calimyrna,' 'San Pedro,' 'Kadota,' 'Adriatic,' and 'Brown Turkey.'" The leading variety of fig--not in the revised OED. And the Smyrna fig? A check of the OED shows "Smyrna fig" was coined in the 1897 Sears Roebuck Catalogue. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE DIVISION OF POMOLOGY Bulletin No. 1 REPORT ON THE CONDITION OF TROPICAL AND SEMI-TROPICAL FRUITS IN THE UNITED STATES IN 1887 Washington: Government Printing Office 1888 Pg. 111: TROPICAL AND SEMI-TROPICAL FRUITS OF CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA, AND NEW MEXICO (Report dated October 15, 1887--ed.) Pg. 140: MISSION The common fig in California is the so-called Mission, raised either from seed by the missionary fathers or brought from Mexico. It is a large vigorous-growing tree, instances of which have been given above, the fruit is small and dark colored. It is an abundant bearer, and its fruit, when properly dried, is very good, and we understand sells quite well in the eastern markets. This fig bears considerably the third and fourth year from cuttings. There exist in California quite a number of varieties of figs the nomenclature of which is in great confusion. The San Pedro is what has been generally called the White Smyrna, a fine eating variety, but not adapted to drying; greenish-white, white flesh, small seeds. From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 14:14:42 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:14:42 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:01 AM -0500 4/17/03, Mai Kuha wrote: >To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too >many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you >guys" is used to address all women, and only women. > >-Mai > Right, but only given that particular context. Cf. "I'm glad I'm not a linguist--you guys have too many issues to deal with!"--designating linguists and only linguists. It's not that "you guys" conventionally designates women per se but only that it can be anaphorically linked to a set of addressees salient in the context. It's the loss of the [+ male] feature not the acquisition of a [- male] one that's involved. Larry From jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 17 14:35:09 2003 From: jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM (James Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:35:09 -0700 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- Gerald Cohen wrote: > I see several people have already responded on > "shyster." The > phonetic similarity of "shyster" and "Shylock" is > merely coincidence. > And in spoken usage I do not see "shyster" as > limited in any way to > just Jewish lawyers. Dishonest > lawyers/businessmen/etc. of *any* > confession may appropriately be termed > "shysters." .... > > Gerald Cohen .... I have freely used 'shyster' to refer to lawyers irrespective of race, color, creed , or sex. Hard as it might be for some to accept, there are vast regions of this land where 'lawyer' does not automatically associate with 'jew'. Having said that, in Casper WY in the 70s, I frequently walked by the office of a lawyer named Shylock, and I thought he had a lot of guts to put that name on the door. (Shylock is one of numerous possible variants - such as Shryrock, Shyrock, Shylok, Shylox, Shilok, Shillock, Schillach, etc. - on family names. When young, I confused Shylock and Sherlock, thinking them to be the one and same famous detective.) ===== James D. SMITH |If history teaches anything South SLC, UT |it is that we will be sued jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com |whether we act quickly and decisively |or slowly and cautiously. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From Jewls2u at WHIDBEY.COM Thu Apr 17 14:49:10 2003 From: Jewls2u at WHIDBEY.COM (Jewls2u) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:49:10 -0700 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My daughter is four. She has named her hands and feet after the Wiggles (Children's show; Greg, Anthony, Jeff and Murry), they are her "guys". We were in the paint store and she said hello to the cute boy mixing our cans with "Hey...you...big...guy". He was a big guy, especially to a then three year old. But, when she wants people to gather around to look at something, or follow her it's "Hey guys, over here" or "Come quick guys, look at this". Julienne -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Dennis R. Preston Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:12 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: you guys Not particularly interesting up here in the frozen North (East Lansing); such usage is common. More recently, even "guys" without "you" has moved into this territory. I heard a young woman yell to friends of hers just the other day "Hey Guys! Wait up! Even this may have been around here longer than I think (since my principal channels of communication are with aged graduate students and colleagues). dInIs To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you guys" is used to address all women, and only women. -Mai -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From TJoyce at BELLBOYD.COM Thu Apr 17 14:58:29 2003 From: TJoyce at BELLBOYD.COM (Joyce, Thomas F.) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:58:29 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Not a precise translation of your English, but there is a Latin motto to the effect "Non palma sine pulvere," i.e., no palm of victory without the dust of struggle. I don't know the provenance. Tom Joyce -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hause [mailto:dwhause at JOBE.NET] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:11 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Latin help, please? I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane Campbell" Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for "Nothing is ever easy"? ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. From jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 17 15:02:35 2003 From: jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM (James Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:02:35 -0700 Subject: shyster, shylock Message-ID: I looked-up �shyster� in my handy Webster�s New Collegiate (1977). It gives the etymology as from Mr. Scheuster, an attorney �frequently rebuked in a New York court for pettifoggery�. Any credence to that? In this dictionary, 'shyster� immediately follows �shylock�; if this is common in most dictionaries, it probably reinforces an association between the two words. (The etymology for �shylock� identifies Shakespeare's Shylock as an usurer, not a lawyer.) ===== James D. SMITH |If history teaches anything South SLC, UT |it is that we will be sued jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com |whether we act quickly and decisively |or slowly and cautiously. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:28:51 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:28:51 -0700 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been hiding in the weeds on this one, figuring that someone at a good Jesuit institution would step onto the stage and give us all the real stuff from Boethius or St. Jerome--or that most frequently cited author, Ibid. And maybe that will be forthcoming. In the meantime, I agree that nullus won't work because it's masculine--and, besides, it's an adjective. Ni(hi)l is the best candidate, as suggested earlier; and the est doesn't have to be at the end of the sentence, although other Latin verbs like to hang out there. Note: Est fides credere quod nondum vides: 'Faith is believing what you don't see' --and I have faith that a real classicist will appear who can give us an authentic answer on this one and reinforce my wish that Latin were still a solid part of the K-12 curriculum. In any case, Larry's cat is safe with the neuter _facile_, and I won't pursue the "neuter" and "cat" line. PR > Likewise, but I agree with Tom that "facilis" would be the > appropriate form to modify "nullus", and that in any case "ni(hi)l" > would be better than "nullus" (and would also allow neuter "facile" > as a modifier). I wouldn't wager my cat on it, though. > > Larry From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:43:57 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:43:57 -0700 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With the corrections to the "nullus" suggestion making it increasingly apparent what that version might sound like to a native speaker, I'm reminded of a hilarious scene in the Monty Python movie The Life of Brian. Ever seen it? PMc --On Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:28 AM -0700 Peter Richardson wrote: > I've been hiding in the weeds on this one, figuring that someone at a good > Jesuit institution would step onto the stage and give us all the real > stuff from Boethius or St. Jerome--or that most frequently cited author, > Ibid. And maybe that will be forthcoming. In the meantime, I agree that > nullus won't work because it's masculine--and, besides, it's an adjective. > Ni(hi)l is the best candidate, as suggested earlier; and the est doesn't > have to be at the end of the sentence, although other Latin verbs like to > hang out there. Note: > > Est fides credere quod nondum vides: 'Faith is believing what you don't > see' > --and I have faith that a real classicist will appear who can > give us an authentic answer on this one and reinforce my wish that Latin > were still a solid part of the K-12 curriculum. > > In any case, Larry's cat is safe with the neuter _facile_, and I won't > pursue the "neuter" and "cat" line. > > PR > >> Likewise, but I agree with Tom that "facilis" would be the >> appropriate form to modify "nullus", and that in any case "ni(hi)l" >> would be better than "nullus" (and would also allow neuter "facile" >> as a modifier). I wouldn't wager my cat on it, though. >> >> Larry ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:47:09 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:47:09 -0700 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1050569037@[10.218.201.115]> Message-ID: Oops! Now I've done it, too. That last message was meant to go to Peter Richardson, not to the list. Sorry! Peter Mc. ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Thu Apr 17 15:48:44 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:48:44 -0700 Subject: Looting vs theft Message-ID: When is looting not theft? Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the Iraq museum was most likel a "well-executed theft." Quark out Lower Umpqua Addictive Conundrum Institute From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:57:00 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:57:00 -0400 Subject: Looting vs theft In-Reply-To: <000801c304f8$d75861c0$6501a8c0@p417vc11> Message-ID: At 8:48 AM -0700 4/17/03, mark worden wrote: >When is looting not theft? > >Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the >Iraq museum was most likel a "well-executed theft." > Looting is always theft, but not vice versa. The latter can be premeditated, as in all those caper movies, but the former is presumably spur-of-the-moment. a carefully (or cleverly) planned (or well-executed) {theft/#looting} larry From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:56:23 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:56:23 -0400 Subject: Looting vs theft In-Reply-To: <000801c304f8$d75861c0$6501a8c0@p417vc11> Message-ID: mark worden wrote: >When is looting not theft? > >Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the >Iraq museum was most likel a "well-executed theft." > > Well, I'd say all looting is theft but not all theft is looting. Looting, to me,carries a connotation of being opportunistic rather than planned. -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Thu Apr 17 16:07:08 2003 From: zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:07:08 -0700 Subject: Looting vs theft Message-ID: mark worden (mworden at wizzards.net) asks: >When is looting not theft? >Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the >Iraq museum was most likel[y] a "well-executed theft." looting certainly is theft; it's spontaneous, largely unplanned theft (involving taking by force, usually by crudely breaking into buildings). what the news stories were suggesting was that the taking of antiquities had in fact been planned and carefully executed; specific antiquities were, the claim is, targeted and spirited away, probably to sell to collectors. meanwhile, there was a lot of just plain looting going on, which would provide excellent cover for a well-executed theft. episodes of widespread looting very frequently are taken advantage of by thieves with specific objects in mind. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From mkuha at BSU.EDU Thu Apr 17 17:41:38 2003 From: mkuha at BSU.EDU (Mai Kuha) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:41:38 -0600 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Definitely--that's what I meant. Thanks for the clarification. And, as was pointed out earlier, this is yesterday's news in the north. Around here, though (Indiana, supposedly just north of the Hoosier Apex, although the reality of regional variation is more complex than that, of course) it hasn't been all that clear to me whether "you guys" or "y'all" is going to win. I regularly hear students voice the opinion that it's sexist to address women as "guys". -Mai on 4/17/03 8:14 AM, Laurence Horn at laurence.horn at YALE.EDU wrote: > ...It's not that "you guys" > conventionally designates women per se but only that it can be > anaphorically linked to a set of addressees salient in the context. > It's the loss of the [+ male] feature not the acquisition of a [- > male] one that's involved. > > Larry > From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 17 16:34:07 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:34:07 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vocative "guys" alone has been around a long time, I suspect; I hear it all the time addressed to either men alone, women alone, or a mixed group. But third person "guys" referring to women alone may be more recent and would presumably require clarification: "All the guys said they'd come." Similarly, "we guys" (or "us guys") would be clear or unclear depending on the sex of the speaker. At 08:11 AM 4/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Not particularly interesting up here in the frozen North (East >Lansing); such usage is common. More recently, even "guys" without >"you" has moved into this territory. I heard a young woman yell to >friends of hers just the other day "Hey Guys! Wait up! Even this may >have been around here longer than I think (since my principal >channels of communication are with aged graduate students and >colleagues). > >dInIs > >To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too >many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you >guys" is used to address all women, and only women. > >-Mai > >-- >Dennis R. Preston >Professor of Linguistics >Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, > Asian & African Languages >Michigan State University >East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 >e-mail: preston at msu.edu >phone: (517) 353-9290 From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 16:45:21 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:45:21 EDT Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur Message-ID: In a message dated 4/17/03 10:35:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM writes: > (Shylock is one of numerous > possible variants - such as Shryrock, Shyrock, > Shylok, Shylox, Shilok, Shillock, Schillach, etc. - on > family names. When young, I confused Shylock and > Sherlock, thinking them to be the one and same famous > detective.) I went to Gideon Shryock Elementary School and never made the connection to "Shylock". (Gideon Shryock was a 19th-Century Kentucky architect who designed several notable public buildings. One teacher insisted that the Shryock family pronounced the name as one syllable, with the "y" silent, but everyone else used two syllables /'shreye ahk/.) As to why Shakespeare gave his Jewish merchant (note the title of the play, which perhaps should have been "The Merchants of Venice") such a WASP name, the answer is that circa 1600 the English were only familiar with Sephardic Jews who had names like Spinoza or Mendez. To an Elizabethan audience, "Shylock" was as plausible a name for a Jew as such rearly heard German concoctions as "Goldstein" or "Rosenberg." Note "Rosencrantz" and "Guildenstern", both of whom were Gentiles. - Jim Landau From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 17 16:42:56 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:42:56 -0400 Subject: Looting vs theft In-Reply-To: <200304171607.h3HG78Js000385@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: >looting certainly is theft; it's spontaneous, largely unplanned theft >(involving taking by force, usually by crudely breaking into >buildings). But I think the word "looting" can very reasonably be applied to the planned theft of a museum's contents. There is a pertinent distinction between the transitive and intransitive use of "loot" maybe. RHUD gives for transitive "loot": <<6. to carry off or take (something) as loot: [example:] _to loot a nation's art treasures._ 7. to despoil by taking loot; plunder or pillage (a city, house, etc.), as in war. 8. to rob, as by burglary or corrupt activity in public office: [example:] _to loot the public treasury._>> -- Doug Wilson From madonna at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Thu Apr 17 17:01:08 2003 From: madonna at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Sylvia Swift) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:01:08 -0700 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: <200304171643.h3HGhBIV012663@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: i grew up in wyoming (you guys land) and spent summers in tennessee (you all land) and cannot get by without a you-plural that is distinct from you-singular. i often use guy/guys as a gender neutral placeholder for person/persons. this worked fine for me in wyoming, rhode island, and oregon. here in california, i am "corrected" several times a day by interlocuters who think i have misidentified the gender of the person for whom the place is being held in my utterance. i persist in using guy/guys this way. i am a film guy, the woman who takes care of the vacation and sick leave is the timesheet guy, the woman we hired yesterday is the new guy, and so on. sylvia swift madonna at socrates.berkeley.edu From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 17:15:12 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:15:12 -0700 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur In-Reply-To: <3e.2e4a0bc2.2bd03421@aol.com> Message-ID: Still another spelling: I went to high school with a Francine Schriock, whose name, like the Shryock cited below, was pronounced "shrock". Like Jim Landau, I never associated it with Shylock until this moment. Peter mc. --On Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:45 PM -0400 "James A. Landau" wrote: >> (Shylock is one of numerous >> possible variants - such as Shryrock, Shyrock, >> Shylok, Shylox, Shilok, Shillock, Schillach, etc. - on >> family names. When young, I confused Shylock and >> Sherlock, thinking them to be the one and same famous >> detective.) > > I went to Gideon Shryock Elementary School and never made the connection > to "Shylock". > > (Gideon Shryock was a 19th-Century Kentucky architect who designed several > notable public buildings. One teacher insisted that the Shryock family > pronounced the name as one syllable, with the "y" silent, but everyone > else used two syllables /'shreye ahk/.) ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM Thu Apr 17 20:01:57 2003 From: ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM (Barnhart) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:01:57 -0500 Subject: looting Message-ID: The idea of looting (vs. theft) is well detailed in OED. The central idea stems from the Sanskrit term lotra, loptra which means "booty, spoil." The definition is goods (esp. articles of considerable value) taken from an enemy, a captured city, etc. in time of war; also in wider sense. something taken by force or violence... Regards, David barnhart at highlands.com From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 18:45:56 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:45:56 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mai Kuha writes on sex-neutral "(you) guys": > And, as was >pointed out earlier, this is yesterday's news in the north. Around here, >though (Indiana, supposedly just north of the Hoosier Apex, although the >reality of regional variation is more complex than that, of course) it >hasn't been all that clear to me whether "you guys" or "y'all" is going to >win. I regularly hear students voice the opinion that it's sexist to address >women as "guys". > ...a position that Douglas Hofstadter (1997) has expounded upon in some detail (Le Ton beau de Marot: In Praise of the Music of Language, p. 202). For a different view, see Steven J. Clancy (1999), "The ascent of guy," American Speech 74: 282-97. Larry From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 18:51:32 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:51:32 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >i grew up in wyoming (you guys land) and spent summers in tennessee >(you all land) and cannot get by without a you-plural that is >distinct from you-singular. i often use guy/guys as a gender >neutral placeholder for person/persons. this worked fine for me in >wyoming, rhode island, and oregon. here in california, i am >"corrected" several times a day by interlocuters who think i have >misidentified the gender of the person for whom the place is being >held in my utterance. > >i persist in using guy/guys this way. i am a film guy, the woman who >takes care of the vacation and sick leave is the timesheet guy, the >woman we hired yesterday is the new guy, and so on. > >sylvia swift >madonna at socrates.berkeley.edu This represents an extension of the sex-neutrality from the vocative "you guys" to the use of "guys" for the addressee set to the plural description "the guys" (as in the Geno Auriemma examples I cited earlier, where he refers to his women's team as "the guys" or singles out "the young guys", etc.) to the singular in Sylvia's examples. The last is the only use that I haven't heard much around here (Connecticut), but I would imagine it might be creeping in. There's a nice illustration in that Clancy paper in _American Speech_ I cited in my last note: Steppenwolf was four people and I'm just one guy. -actress Joan Allen hosting Saturday Night Live, 11/14/98, cited in Clancy (1999:287) From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Thu Apr 17 19:35:02 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:35:02 -0700 Subject: you guys Message-ID: >i persist in using guy/guys this way. i am a film guy, the woman who >takes care of the vacation and sick leave is the timesheet guy, > the woman we hired yesterday is the new guy, and so on. I'm with ya, Sylvia. After all, our mailman is a woman. (Many of my students say their mailmen are women, too) Fritz sylvia swift madonna at socrates.berkeley.edu From jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET Thu Apr 17 20:03:03 2003 From: jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET (Jim McKee) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:03:03 -0500 Subject: Hello from a newbie Message-ID: Hi everyone - I just joined the List yesterday hoping as an amateur to keep up better with what official dialectologists are thinking and saying! The things I've noticed lately - admittedly off topic; forgive me! - include an epidemic of speakers saying "The point is is that ...." or even "The problem was is that...", and the EMT's heard on my local police scanner saying, "Transporting one non-emergent." The latter may be regional - I am near Mississippi State University, but the former, I hear mostly on the radio from all over. Another thing that has intrigued me for years is that occasionally on a TV cop or detective show someone will say "I consulted a linguist at the University and he said that caller has a West Texas accent." Similarly, in a book, a woman was identified by consultation with a linguist as being Native American because a specific pronunciation feature indicated a bilingual childhood environment, etc. I'm just wonderng if the writers of these TV shows and books really have existing "linguists" in mind, and, if so, how they know which linguist at which university to consult, since dialectology is often very specialized. In any case, the use of "you guys" has definitely filtered down to my part of the country, mostly age-group specific as you might imagine. Jim From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 21:21:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:21:27 -0400 Subject: Bakery (1803) Message-ID: "Bakery." Clearly, one of the most important words of all time. OED and Merriam-Webster have about 1820. I didn't find it at all in the PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE (up to 1800) on Accessible Archives. There are earlier American Periodical Series "hits," but I found a few "baker's" and couldn't find the "bakery." Balance and Columbian Repository (1802-1807), Albany; Sep 20, 1803; Vol. 2, Iss. 38 111. Hudson, September 20, 1803. Bonaparte has proposed terms to Louis XVIII. offering him a princely establishment...; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs 112. Latest foreign intelligence. Paris, June 20; Anonymous; pg. 302, 2 pgs 113. New-Brunswick, Sept. 1; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs 114. The Knell. At Cambridge, (Massachusetts) 27th August, the Rev. David Tappan...; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs 115. The knot. Married; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs Pg. 303: On the morning of the 9th inst. a fire broke out in the Bakery of a Mr. Frazer, in Cliff Street, New-York, which destroyed ten dwelling-houses. From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 17 21:15:49 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:15:49 -0400 Subject: Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <20649-3E9F0877-1618@storefull-2274.public.lawson.webtv.net > Message-ID: I've been working on the first construction for a couple of years now, and you're absolutely right--it's spreading like crazy. I think we have a thread on this in the archives too--anyone? (And it's not off topic at all!) At 03:03 PM 4/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi everyone - I just joined the List yesterday hoping as an amateur to >keep up better with what official dialectologists are thinking and >saying! >The things I've noticed lately - admittedly off topic; forgive me! - >include an epidemic of speakers saying "The point is is that ...." or >even "The problem was is that...", and the EMT's heard on my local >police scanner saying, "Transporting one non-emergent." The latter may >be regional - I am near Mississippi State University, but the former, I >hear mostly on the radio from all over. >Another thing that has intrigued me for years is that occasionally on a >TV cop or detective show someone will say "I consulted a linguist at the >University and he said that caller has a West Texas accent." >Similarly, in a book, a woman was identified by consultation with a >linguist as being Native American because a specific pronunciation >feature indicated a bilingual childhood environment, etc. I'm just >wonderng if the writers of these TV shows and books really have existing >"linguists" in mind, and, if so, how they know which linguist at which >university to consult, since dialectology is often very specialized. >In any case, the use of "you guys" has definitely filtered down to my >part of the country, mostly age-group specific as you might imagine. > >Jim From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Apr 17 21:55:30 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:55:30 -0700 Subject: Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030417171325.015cdb10@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: Right you are, Beverly. We had a discussion of "The problem is is that" in mid-December 2001 and on "is is" in January of 2001. allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Beverly Flanigan wrote: > I've been working on the first construction for a couple of years now, and > you're absolutely right--it's spreading like crazy. I think we have a > thread on this in the archives too--anyone? (And it's not off topic at all!) > > At 03:03 PM 4/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi everyone - I just joined the List yesterday hoping as an amateur to > >keep up better with what official dialectologists are thinking and > >saying! > >The things I've noticed lately - admittedly off topic; forgive me! - > >include an epidemic of speakers saying "The point is is that ...." or > >even "The problem was is that...", and the EMT's heard on my local > >police scanner saying, "Transporting one non-emergent." The latter may > >be regional - I am near Mississippi State University, but the former, I > >hear mostly on the radio from all over. > >Another thing that has intrigued me for years is that occasionally on a > >TV cop or detective show someone will say "I consulted a linguist at the > >University and he said that caller has a West Texas accent." > >Similarly, in a book, a woman was identified by consultation with a > >linguist as being Native American because a specific pronunciation > >feature indicated a bilingual childhood environment, etc. I'm just > >wonderng if the writers of these TV shows and books really have existing > >"linguists" in mind, and, if so, how they know which linguist at which > >university to consult, since dialectology is often very specialized. > >In any case, the use of "you guys" has definitely filtered down to my > >part of the country, mostly age-group specific as you might imagine. > > > >Jim > From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:01:57 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:01:57 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030417171325.015cdb10@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is "I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. Peter R. From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:03:28 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:03:28 -0700 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. > Right you are, Beverly. We had a discussion of "The problem is is that" in > mid-December 2001 and on "is is" in January of 2001. PR From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:16:07 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:16:07 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Bakery" In-Reply-To: <7BE57D33.7173FDD8.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: bakery (OED c1820) 1780 George Washington _Let._ 24 May in _Writings of Washington_ (1937) XVIII. 411 Independent of the apartments for the sick, there must be one or more kitchens; an apothecarys shop; a magazine for drugs and remedies; an oven; a bakery. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:17:27 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:17:27 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Since I still have the Archives search page open, there was a discussion of "try and and try to" in mid-July 2000. allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: > There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try > and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent > substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is > "I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just > fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. > > Peter R. > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 22:23:56 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:23:56 -0400 Subject: Bakeware (1948) & Cookware (1922) Message-ID: BAKEWARE--no OED entry, no Merriam-Webster entry COOKWARE--no OED entry, Merriam-Webster date to 1953 --------------------------------------------------------------- COOKWARE (NEW YORK TIMES, WALL STREET JOURNAL) Stewart-Warner; From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Chicago Bureau; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 5, 1930; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Product will be distributed under trade-mark Stewart Cookware through company's sales branches...") BUSINESS LEASES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 21, 1929; pg. 38, 1 pgs ("Super-Maid Cookware Company of Chicago.") NEW INCORPORATIONS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 15, 1922; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("Aluminum Cookware Mfg. Co., Brooklyn.") (TRADEMARK) Word Mark CLUB ALUMINUM HAMMERCRAFT WATERLESS COOKWARE Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 021. US 013. G & S: CAST ALUMINUM UTENSILS-NAMELY, ALUMINUM SAUCE PANS, ROASTERS, BAKING AND COOKING PANS, FRY PANS, CASSEROLES, COOKING KETTLES, DUTCH OVENS, TEA KETTLES, TEA POTS PERCOLATORS DRIP COFFEE MAKERS, STEAK PLATTERS AND GRIDDLES. FIRST USE: 19290930. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19291231 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 050307 260128 260928 Serial Number 71537987 Filing Date October 16, 1947 Registration Number 0533559 Registration Date November 21, 1950 Owner (REGISTRANT) CLUB ALUMINUM PRODUCTS COMPANY CORPORATION ILLINOIS 1250 FULLERTON AVENUE CHICAGO ILLINOIS Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 0309004 Disclaimer THE WORDS "ALUMINUM," "HAMMERCRAFT WATERLESS COOKWARE" ARE DISCLAIMED APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19701121 Live/Dead Indicator DEAD --------------------------------------------------------------- BAKEWARE (NEW YORK TIMES) United Aircraft Products Cuts Prices on Baking Pans; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 11, 1950; pg. 14, 1 pgs (...'Aire Ware' bakeware line...") Display Ad 174 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 20, 1949; pg. SM52, 1 pgs Display Ad 188 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 28, 1948; pg. SM49, 1 pgs Display Ad 180 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1948; pg. SM42, 1 pgs ("Blue Ribbon Bakeware, Leoscot, Ill.") (WORLDCAT database) Title: Kitchen tool school lessons on cookware, bakeware, cutlery. Corp Author(s): Wear-Ever Aluminum, inc. Publication: Chillicothe, Ohio :; Wear-Ever Aluminum, Year: 1974 Description: 6 filmslips (57 fr.), filmslip scripts, 3 pamphlets, 1 shopper's guide, 6 spirit masters, 1 guide;; in folder, 30 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Kitchen utensils -- Study and teaching. Note(s): Folder title. Material Type: Kit (kit) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19820803 Update: 20020703 Accession No: OCLC: 8653824 Database: WorldCat Title: Cookware and bakeware. Corp Author(s): Mirro Aluminum Company. Publication: Manitowoc, Wisc. :; Mirro Aluminum Co., Year: 1970-1977? Description: 3 charts (col.), 8 discussion guides, 8 masters, 2 quiz sheets, 1 quiz grading template, and teacher's guide in folder. Language: English Series: Mirro teaching aids; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Baking pans. Pots. Note(s): Masters and quiz sheets intended to be duplicated as spirit masters, transparencies, or photocopies. Discussion guides correlated to masters. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 643.3 Material Type: Kit (kit) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19780627 Update: 19950218 Accession No: OCLC: 4012682 Database: WorldCat (TRADEMARK) Word Mark CREATIVE BAKEWARE BY MIRRO Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 021. US 002 013. G & S: Aluminum Baking Utensils-Namely, Pie and Cake Pans, Cookie Sheets, Bake and Roast Pans, Jelly Roll Pans, and Bread-Loaf Pans. FIRST USE: 19791100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19791100 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 73253069 Filing Date March 7, 1980 Published for Opposition August 18, 1981 Registration Number 1177310 Registration Date November 10, 1981 Owner (REGISTRANT) Mirro Corporation CORPORATION NEW JERSEY P.O. Box 409 Manitowoc WISCONSIN 54220 Attorney of Record Blum, Kaplan, Friedman, Silberman & Bera Prior Registrations 0665622;0690083 Disclaimer Without waiving its common law rights herein, applicant makes no claim to the word "Bakeware" apart from the mark as shown. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date June 3, 1988 From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Thu Apr 17 22:35:43 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:35:43 -0400 Subject: Hello from a newbie Message-ID: > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "A. Maberry" > Subject: Re: Hello from a newbie > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > Right you are, Beverly. We had a discussion of "The problem is is that" in > mid-December 2001 and on "is is" in January of 2001. > Here's a link: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0101C&L=ads-l&D=0&m=11347& P=8584 From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:31:47 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:31:47 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <87211D8E9D3BD211B5FF00805FE66D3A0D325713@dbqexc01ntms.dbq. hboc.com> Message-ID: A little late--but "rensh" is common in Oklahoma too, not surprisingly. At 11:22 AM 4/10/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I can verify that it's alive and well here in Dubuque, Iowa. My >grandmother would always say "rensh [rinse] it out in the zink". > >Bill Le May From jdhall at WISCMAIL.WISC.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:20:49 2003 From: jdhall at WISCMAIL.WISC.EDU (Joan Houston Hall) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:20:49 -0500 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <0HDI00JQ6D7WS0@smtp2.doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: DARE's first quote for "try and" is from 1847. At 03:01 PM 4/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header >----------------------- >Sender: American Dialect Society >Poster: Peter Richardson >Subject: try and? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. > >Peter R. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 22:57:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:57:38 -0400 Subject: Artisanal Cheese (1986) Message-ID: "Artisanal cheese" is not in the OED. The database hits have became very frequent in the past four years. (FACTIVA database) CONSUMING PASSIONS THE EDGE OF THE WEDGE Natural cheese doesn't last long or travel well, but when it comes to taste it creams pasteurized factory products JOANNE KATES 2,183 words 30 May 1986 The Globe and Mail P62; (ILLUS) (...) In France the war is on, between industrial and farm production of cheese from the milk of cow, goat and sheep. For the Monteiros are not anomalous; France has thousands of hidden valleys where people like them continue artisanal cheese-making. Indignity to cheese offends the French JOANNE KATES 980 words 18 March 1987 The Globe and Mail C6; (ILLUS) (...) According to Robert Noah, who lives in Paris and leads food tours there: "In 15 years there will be one cheese ripener in Paris. Glorified cremeries are selling Vache Qui Rit, industrial pasteurized triple cremes, teaching the public to eat mild cheeses. The industry wants the public to think mild mild mild is good good good. The son of the St. Hubert cheese- ripening family told me he was the only one in his class at dairy college who wanted to go into artisanal cheese making. All the others wanted jobs in industry." On French TV you see a lot of advertising for the factory cheeses, which are by nature far milder than the artisanal cheese that's made from unpasteurized milk and then ripened into fullness. A pasteurized milk cheese, lacking the microbial life of its artisanal cousin, cannot ripen. So the cheese industry is working hard to convince the French that these half-hearted striplings that can never grow up are better than the real thing. And it's working. Artisanal cheeses are being driven to the margins of the market. (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. Not the Market to Pick Up a Quart of Milk; By JOSEPH D'AGNESE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 12, 1999; pg. NJ24, 1 pgs 2. Chicago's New Fare: French, Mexican, Flamboyant; Choice Tables: Chicago; By DENNIS RAY WHEATON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 7, 1999; pg. TR6, 2 pgs 3. Chevre Learns Some New Tricks; By JEANNETTE FERRARY, SAN FRANCISCO; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 13, 1999; pg. F5, 1 pgs 4. Article 9 -- No Title; By MERRI ROSENBERG; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 15, 1999; pg. WE15, 1 pgs 5. Create a Cheese Board; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 25, 1998; pg. F4, 1 pgs 6. The Gift Is in the Mail, Savory and Sweet; By MARIAN BURROS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 11, 1998; pg. F14, 1 pgs 7. DINING A DEUX, SPLENDIDLY; At the Grand Vefour, it may well be irrelevant which anniversary is being celebrated; By SARAH FERRELL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 3, 1994; pg. XX11, 2 pgs 8. Staying in the Pyrenees for $15 a Night; A network of family-run lodgings is to be found amid the villages, castles and wild terrain of Spain's Navarre province; By GERRY DAWES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 12, 1994; pg. XX29, 2 pgs 9. Shopping at Mallorca; P.C.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 11, 1990; pg. XX32, 1 pgs ("Artisanal cheese are $20 to $35 for 2.2 pounds.") (WORLDCAT database) 1. Mike Nelson's mind over matters / Author: Nelson, Michael J. Publication: New York : HarperEntertainment, 2002 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 218 2. The cheeses of Vermont : a gourmet guide to Vermont's artisanal cheesemakers / Author: Tewksbury, Henry. Publication: Woodstock, Vt. : Countryman Press, 2002 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 64 3. The production of Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese : the force of an artisanal system in an industrialised world / Author: Roest, Kees de, 1954- Publication: Assen : Van Gorcum, 2000 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 8 4. The production of Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese : the force of an artisanal system in an industrialised world / Author: Roest, Kees de. Publication: [Wageningen : s.n., 2000 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 2 (TRADEMARK) Word Mark ARTISANAL CHEESE Goods and Services IC 029. US 046. G & S: Foodstuffs, namely, meats and cheeses and dairy-based foods, namely, dairy-based dips and whipped toppings IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Wholesale and retail store services in the fields of specialty foods, mail order services in the field of specialty foods; and import and export services in the field of specialty foods Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 76415959 Filing Date June 6, 2002 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Owner (APPLICANT) Artisanal Cheese, LLC LTD LIAB CO NEW YORK 2 Park Avenue New York NEW YORK 10016 Attorney of Record Brendan P. McFeely Prior Registrations 2671387 Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark ARTISANAL FROMAGERIE AND BISTRO Translations The English translation of "FROMAGERIE" is "cheese shop". Goods and Services IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: Restaurants. FIRST USE: 20000100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010310 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 76278140 Filing Date June 28, 2001 Published for Opposition October 15, 2002 Registration Number 2671387 Registration Date January 7, 2003 Owner (REGISTRANT) Brennan, Terrance INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 2 Park Avenue New York NEW YORK 10016 Attorney of Record Donald J. Weiss Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "FROMAGERIE AND BISTRO" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From gcohen at UMR.EDU Fri Apr 18 00:14:53 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:14:53 -0500 Subject: "shyster" does not derive from a lawyer named Scheuster Message-ID: At 8:02 AM -0700 4/17/03, James Smith wrote: >I looked-up "shyster" in my handy Websterís New >Collegiate (1977). It gives the etymology as from Mr. >Scheuster, an attorney "frequently rebuked in a New >York court for pettifoggery." Any credence to that? No. There is no chance (zero) that "shyster" derives from a lawyer named Scheuster. The etymology was first set forth by Frank Moss in his 1897 _The American Metropolis From Knickerbocker Days To The Present Time_, p.183: "The term shyster had its origin in the Essex Market Police Court fifty years ago, when Justice Osbourne dispensed (with) justice. There was a Clinton Street lawyer named Scheuster, whose practices were reprehensible and were obnoxious to the judge, and when another lawyer played a mean trick, the judge would call it 'Scheuster' practice.' Soon those lawyers who emulated him were call shysters." I will now skip the two later people who adopted Moss' etymology and cut to the chase: Barnabas Osborn became a police justice (1845) only after "shyster" originated (1843); so even if a lawyer named Scheuster irritated Judge Osborn, "shyster" could not have arisen from this confrontation. Also, Scheuster turns out be be almost certainly a fictitious character; considerable searching has turned up nary a trace that he existed. For a full discussion of the "Scheuster" hypothesis, see my book _Origin of the Term "Shyster"_ (Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang Verlag), 1982, pp. 4-10. Also, word researcher David Shulman was the first to question the Scheuster hypothesis (1973, _The Light_, Nov. 1973, pp. 4, 15; reprinted in my _Studies in Slang_, part 2, 1989, pp. 93-94). Btw, Merriam-Webster is aware of my work on "shyster" and has included the story behind the real etymology in _Webster's Word Histories (Frederick Mish, editor), 1989, pp.424-426. And Jesse Sheidlower (editor, OED) has told me that OED will update its "shyster" entry when his staff gets to the letter S; at the very least, this will include the earlier attestations of the term. Might I also give credit to former newspaper librarian at the NY Historical Society, Roger Mohovich (pronounced Muh-HOH-Vich), who discovered the 1843 attestations in the NYC newspaper _The Subterranean_, thereby setting me on the right track. Gerald Cohen From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 00:21:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:21:45 -0400 Subject: Meat Thermometer (1928) & Oven Thermometer (1869) Message-ID: MEAT THERMOMETER The revised OED has 1946 for "meat thermometer." (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. NEW THINGS IN CITY'S SHOPS; Spectacular Jewelry for Up-Swept Hair-Bright Scarfs--New Music Instrument; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 11, 1938; pg. 57, 1 pgs ("As easily read as a first-grade primer are the directions on the dial of a meat thermometer designed to help one reach perfection in the cooking of meats.") 2. EXPERT FOOD TASTERS HELP THE HOUSEWIVES; Employed by Uncle Sam, They Have Served to Raise Standards of Meats and Cooking ; By FRANK GEORGEWASHINGTON.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 20, 1936; pg. SM16, 1 pgs ("All three roasts were cooked to the same degree--rare, as indicated by a meat thermometer.") 3. Tells Ways of Cooking Lamb.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 14, 1928; pg. 27, 1 pgs ("The use of the meat termometer which mades it possible to roast large cuts to just the turn desired, and with a minimum of shrinkage, is discussed and illustrated.") (JSTOR database) Meat Research in the United States E. W. Sheets The Scientific Monthly, Vol. 38, No. 1. (Jan., 1934), pp. 50-59. Pg. 51: For example, every rib roast of beef is cooked to the rare stage, that is, until the meat at the center registers 62 (degrees--ed.) C. as shown by a special meat thermometer. --------------------------------------------------------------- OVEN THERMOMETER The OED has no entry for "oven thermometer." (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) Scientific American. / New Series, Volume 21, Issue 23: pp. 353-368 p. 359 1 match of 'oven thermometer*' Title: Scientific American. / New Series, Volume 21, Issue 23 Publisher: Scientific American, inc. etc. Publication Date: Dec 4, 1869 City: New York Pages: 418 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABF2204-1021&byte=189646133 ("THE BAKER'S OVEN THERMOMETER. This useful instrument for indicating the temperature of an oven, is the invention of Mr. T. Bailey, or Salford.") (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Apr 27, 1889; Vol. Vol. LX., Iss. 0 AN IMPROVED OVEN THERMOMETER.; pg. 259, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jan 1, 1889, Iss. 0 Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 411, 2 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Dec 30, 1882; Vol. Vol.XLVII., Iss. 0 Oven Thermometer.; pg. 421, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 3, 1877; Vol. Vol. XXXVI., Iss. 0 Other 3 -- No Title; pg. 75, 2 pgs ("Oven Thermometer, P. A. Forbrache...185,170") (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. Display Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 5, 1901; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("Oven Thermometers, 67c" at Macy's.) 2. WOMEN HERE AND THERE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 7, 1899; pg. 22, 1 pgs ("Guesswork is unscientific, and so I purchased, first of all, an oven thermometer.") (WORLDCAT database) Libraries with Item: "Taylor home bake oven the..." NY NEW YORK ACAD OF MED VVK Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: Taylor home bake oven thermometer ; book of recipes for baking and roasting, carefully tested for time and temperature. Author(s): Badenoch, Nena Wilson. Corp Author(s): Taylor Instrument Companies. Publication: Rochester, N.Y. : Taylor Instrument Companies, Year: 1917 Description: 24 p. : ill. ; 16 cm. Language: English Other Titles: Taylor cook book. Document Type: Book Entry: 19990309 Update: 19990309 Accession No: OCLC: 40928991 Database: WorldCat Cooper Oven Thermometers. Corp Author: Cooper Oven Thermometer Co. Publication: Hartford, Conn. : Taylor & Greenough, 1915-1929? Document: English : Book From GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU Fri Apr 18 00:31:19 2003 From: GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU (Gordon, Matthew J.) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:31:19 -0500 Subject: try and? Message-ID: A quick search of the North American Women's Letters and Diaries database shows an example from a 1798 letter from Elizabeth Ann Seton, a New Yorker: "I must tell you she was going to try and recover her health at New Rochelle. " There are some earlier (17th cen) British examples in the LION database, though the contexts are sometimes ambiguous as to whether the meaning is "try to X". -----Original Message----- From: Joan Houston Hall [mailto:jdhall at WISCMAIL.WISC.EDU] Sent: Thu 4/17/2003 5:20 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Cc: Subject: Re: try and? DARE's first quote for "try and" is from 1847. At 03:01 PM 4/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header >----------------------- >Sender: American Dialect Society >Poster: Peter Richardson >Subject: try and? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. > >Peter R. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 01:00:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:00:45 -0400 Subject: Food Chain (1920) Message-ID: OED has 1927 for "food chain." Both the TIMES OF LONDON and a JSTOR journal have the same article in 1920. A later JSTOR article cites "Bullen, _Journ. Mar. Biol. Assoc._, 9, 1912, pg. 394," which is not on JSTOR and I'll have to check out. (TIMES OF LONDON) British Association Cardiff Meeting Opened., Hidden Secrets Of The Sea. (News) (From Our Special Correspondent.). The Times Wednesday, Aug 25, 1920; pg. 14; Issue 42498; col A Article: | Page | PDF 1 page portrait (10604 words) (JSTOR database) Oceanography and the Sea-Fisheries (in The British Association for the Advancement of Science) William A. Herdman The Scientific Monthly, Vol. 11, No. 4. (Oct., 1920), pp. 289-296. Pg. 295: Each such fish has its "food-chain" or series of alternative chains, leading back from the food of man to the invertebrates upon which it preys and then to the food of these, and so down to the smallest and simplest organisms in the sea, and each such chain must have all its links fully worked out as to seasonal and quantitative occurrence back to the Diatom and Flagellates which depend upon physical conditions and take us beyond the range of biology--but not beyond that of oceanography. From dcamp911 at JUNO.COM Thu Apr 17 23:08:45 2003 From: dcamp911 at JUNO.COM (Duane Campbell) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:08:45 -0400 Subject: try and? Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:01:57 -0700 Peter Richardson > Note > that we > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," Maybe not where you live, but it is very common in northern Pennsylvania. I'll try and give my shaky explanation. For absolutely no rational reason, I have always had the sense that this is related to the "take and" construction, as in " ... We'll, that's interesting. I can't think of a proper example. My grandmother, rural Pennsylvania, died 40 years ago, would always say, "Take and [do something]." But at the moment the only examples that come to mind contain some kind of literal, if unneeded, use of "take." "Take and wash that glass." I'm sure she used it as an empty filler phrase, but when I try to put it in that context, it doesn't ring true. Well, it's been several decades. Nevermind. D From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 01:19:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:19:27 -0400 Subject: Food Stamps (1939) Message-ID: OED has 1962 for "food stamps." The citations appear to be British. I've said many times that OED is can be awful, but this is really awful. Food stamps. Just about ANYONE who lives in America (Not a scholar! ANYONE!) and has gone to the supermarket knows that "food stamp" is older than 1962. There was a Great Depression and then a war, later called World War II, and the government started issuing food stamps... FOOD SCRIP TO LIFT SALES 250 MILLION; Grocers Hope for 50% Boost in Relief Family Purchases Through Surplus Plan JOBBERS TO DO BUYING Industry Pleased That Goods Will Be Moved Through Normal Channels; By CHARLES E. EGAN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 19, 1939; pg. 89, 1 pgs Food, Grocery Group Approves Distribution Plan for Farm Surplus; Agricultural Department Proposal Designed to Stimulate Consumption Through Regular Channels; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 14, 1939; pg. 4, 1 pgs THE FOOD SCRIP PLAN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 11, 1939; pg. 10, 1 pgs Surplus Disposal Details Announced; Plans Include Issuance of Food Stamps or Certificates of Two Different Types; From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Washington Bureau; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 7, 1939; pg. 1, 1 pgs From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Fri Apr 18 01:34:55 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:34:55 -0400 Subject: try and? Message-ID: > > > > Note > > that we > > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," > > Maybe not where you live, but it is very common in northern Pennsylvania. I think there's been some confusion. What is at issue here, I believe, is "I'll try and" versus "I'll try to" with no following verb (the [do it] is implied but unspoken.) "Will you pick up some milk on the way home, dear?" "I'll try to." No one says "I'll try and" without saying the second verb, do they, even in northern PA? From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Fri Apr 18 01:58:22 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:58:22 -0400 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <20030417.211034.-228543.4.dcamp911@juno.com> Message-ID: Duane Campbell writes: >For absolutely no rational reason, I have always had the sense that this >is related to the "take and" construction, as in " ... > >We'll, that's interesting. I can't think of a proper example. My >grandmother, rural Pennsylvania, died 40 years ago, would always say, >"Take and [do something]." But at the moment the only examples that come >to mind contain some kind of literal, if unneeded, use of "take." "Take >and wash that glass." I'm sure she used it as an empty filler phrase, >but when I try to put it in that context, it doesn't ring true. Well, >it's been several decades. ~~~~~~~~ I have often heard this construction from people in various parts of the country, but usually rural, and older than myself ( I am in my seventies). It always seemed to me to suggest taking the matter in hand, or taking up as a responsibility rather than picking up physically. It doesn't seem to have survived in the way "try and" has. I hear "try and" in the mouths of people of all ages. A. Murie From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 02:23:25 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:23:25 -0400 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:01 PM -0700 4/17/03, Peter Richardson wrote: >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. but ok: He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: Go catch a falling star. Go (and) eat your own cookies. Larry From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 02:25:09 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:25:09 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Bakery" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred uncovers: >bakery (OED c1820) > >1780 George Washington _Let._ 24 May in _Writings of Washington_ (1937) >XVIII. 411 Independent of the apartments for the sick, there must be one >or more kitchens; an apothecarys shop; a magazine for drugs and remedies; >an oven; a bakery. > Can this really be the first cite? George Washington, the father of our "bakery"? From zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Fri Apr 18 03:03:49 2003 From: zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:03:49 -0700 Subject: try and? Message-ID: larry horn on TRY AND: >Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: >Go catch a falling star. >Go (and) eat your own cookies. to say this carefully, GO/COME occur in a construction with AND and a following VP and also in a construction with an immediately following VP (with no AND). that's not to say that an AND is suppressed. it's by no means clear that the hendiadys construction is even the *historical* source of the quasi-serial verb construction. an attractive alternative is that the quasi-serial verb construction is a reinterpretation of asyndetic coordinations like Go/Come, see who's at the door. (on this story, the loose and paratactic combination of verbs here was reinterpreted as a tight and hypotactic combination, that is, as complementation.) i'm beginning to collect evidence in favor of this alternative historical story. in any case, as larry well knows, that fact that you have roughly synonymous pairings of X w Y with X Y (for some word w) doesn't mean that the latter is synchronically derived by suppressing, omitting, or deleting w from the former. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Fri Apr 18 02:54:45 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:54:45 -0500 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's also the "take and" construction, where a complementizer analysis is more difficult. He took and robbed the bank. She took and smacked him. The Babe took and hit a home run. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Laurence Horn Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:23 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: try and? At 3:01 PM -0700 4/17/03, Peter Richardson wrote: >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. but ok: He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: Go catch a falling star. Go (and) eat your own cookies. Larry From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Fri Apr 18 02:56:17 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:56:17 -0500 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I should read the whole thread. Then I'd know that the "take and" construction had already come up. Herb Duane Campbell writes: >For absolutely no rational reason, I have always had the sense that this >is related to the "take and" construction, as in " ... > >We'll, that's interesting. I can't think of a proper example. My >grandmother, rural Pennsylvania, died 40 years ago, would always say, >"Take and [do something]." But at the moment the only examples that come >to mind contain some kind of literal, if unneeded, use of "take." "Take >and wash that glass." I'm sure she used it as an empty filler phrase, >but when I try to put it in that context, it doesn't ring true. Well, >it's been several decades. ~~~~~~~~ I have often heard this construction from people in various parts of the country, but usually rural, and older than myself ( I am in my seventies). It always seemed to me to suggest taking the matter in hand, or taking up as a responsibility rather than picking up physically. It doesn't seem to have survived in the way "try and" has. I hear "try and" in the mouths of people of all ages. A. Murie From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 03:31:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:31:49 -0400 Subject: Meat Substitute (1893) Message-ID: OED has 1931 for "meat substitute." This is the revised OED. Seemingly everyone should know that "meat substitutes" were used during World War I, at least. There are two earlier BROOKLYN EAGLE hits (1870s and 1880s), but the system has been changed a little and I didn't see them. OT: I recently e-mailed the American Antiquarian Society about their digitization of pre-1800 work. (I'm looking for a good bakery.) I got no response, but will forward one when/if one arrives. (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map WOMEN ALREADY AT WORK; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 20, 1913; pg. X10, 1 pgs 2. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map FAMILY OF FIVE CAN BARELY LIVE HERE ON $900; So Says John A. Kingsbury, General Agent of the Association Improving the Condition of the Poor, and Gives Results of Investigations Made.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 4, 1912; pg. SM11, 1 pgs 3. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 22, 1905; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("PROTO PUFFS. A wholesome Meat Substitute.") 4. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map Oleomargarine as Food.; J.F. GEISLER.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 11, 1899; pg. 6, 1 pgs 5. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map THE HEART OF THE HOUSE; Kitchens or Many Countries Pictured and Compared.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 2, 1895; pg. 13, 1 pgs 6. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map IN PRINTER'S INK THE SECRET; VAST FORTUNES MADE BY THE PATENT-MEDICINE KINGS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 14, 1894; pg. 21, 1 pg 7. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map PACIFIC MAIL'S HARD FIGHT; THE PANAMA RAILROAD TRIES TO CRIPPLE THE OLD COMPANY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 15, 1893; pg. 17, 1 pgs ("The cooking for the sick is intended to be of especial value to medical students and nurses, and will include instructions for the preparation of broths, cooking of starches, drinks and nutricious jellies, and the cooking of meats and meat substitute.") (WORLDCAT database) Meat substitutes, Author: Goodhue, Isabel. Publication: New York, New York magazine of mysteries, 1907 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 8 Book Mrs. Rorer's vegetable cookery and meat substitutes... Author: Rorer, Sarah Tyson Heston, 1849-1937. Publication: Philadelphia, Arnold and company 1909 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 41 Meat substitutes : with suggestions for reducing the amounts of meat used. Publication: Michigan : Home Economics Extension Division, Michigan Agricultural College, 1910s Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 1 Cheese and other substitutes for meat in the diet. Author: Langworthy, C. F. 1864-1932. Publication: 1911 In: Yearbook of the United States Department of Agriculture. Washington, G.P.O., 1911. 1910, p. 359-370. 23 cm. Document: English : Article Libraries Worldwide: 1 The Institute cook book, planned for a family of four; economical recipes, designed to meet the needs of the modern housekeeper, including chapters on entertaining, paper-bag cookery, casserole cookery, fireless cookery, chafing-dish cookery, meat substitutes, Author: Cramp, Helen, b. 1886. Publication: Philadelphia, Pa., Pub. for International Institute, Dept. of Domestic Science 1913 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 15 Book Save the meat 24 recipes using meat substitutes and perishable meats / Author: Lawrence, M. Minerva Publication: Austin, Tex. : University of Texas, 1917 Document: English : Book : Microform Microform Libraries Worldwide: 2 Book Mrs. Allen's book of meat substitutes, Author: Allen, Ida Cogswell Bailey, 1885-1973. Publication: Boston, Small, Maynard & company 1918 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 13 Book Daily menus for war service; three menus for breakfast, luncheon, and dinner, graded according to expense, for every day in the year, giving the calories for each individual helping, and recipes for all meat substitutes, war breads, and all dishes listed in which substitutes may be used in place of butter, sugar, and wheat flour, Author: Franks, Thetta Quay. Publication: New York, G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1918 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 3 Book Meatless and less-meat cookery / Author: Lees-Dods, Matilda. Publication: London : New York : G. Routledge ; E.P. Dutton, 1918 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 3 From mam at THEWORLD.COM Fri Apr 18 03:38:45 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:38:45 -0400 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: #Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. To which I say: * -- Mark A. Mandel From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 03:48:25 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:48:25 -0400 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark A Mandel wrote: >On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: > >#Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. > >To which I say: * > How about "what we are, is puzzled by it all"? -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 06:09:58 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:09:58 -0400 Subject: Meat Juice (1830) Message-ID: The revised OED has 1874 for "meat juice." (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES database) August, 1830 THE LADY'S BOOK Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Volume 1 - Page 112 RECIPES. (...) TO TAKE OUT CHERRY-BOUNCE OR << SWEET-MEAT JUICE>> , WHEN SPILLED ON THE CLOTHES. DIP in cold water the corner of a clean towel, and rub it on the stain before the article is washed. Continue it, changing to a clean part of the towel and dipping frequently in the cold water till the stain disappears, which will be in a few minutes. The sweeter the juice, the sooner it will come out. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 06:27:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:27:53 -0400 Subject: Meat Broth(1806); Meat Chopper(1832); Meat Pudding(1841); Meat Tenderer Message-ID: Last meat before parking tickets. These were checked against the American Periodical Series online. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT BROTH The revised OED has 1850. The Philadelphia Medical Museum, Conducted by John Redman Coxe, M.D. (1805-1810), Philadelphia; 1806; Vol. 2, Iss. 4 2. Account of the measles in Jamaica; J Quier; pg. 365, 15 pgs (Pg. 377: "The food, both in this and the febrile stage, was of the slightest and blandest kind that could be afforded; such as flour-pap, boiled rice, and fresh-meat broths.") --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT CHOPPER The revised OED has 1848. The Genesee Farmer and Gardener's Journal (1831-1839), Rochester; Jan 7, 1832; Vol. 2, Iss. 1 98. Culture of Ruta Baga; J B; pg. 4, 2 pgs (Pg. 4: "From thence they are fed to my stock, being first chopped up with a _snick_ (Dutch meat chopper,) or spade. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT PUDDING The revised OED has 1851. Southern Literary Messenger (1834-1845), Richmond; Nov 1841; Vol. 7, Iss. 11 8. Treatment of slaves in the South-West; A Planter; pg. 774, 3 pgs (Pg. 775: "They have _no meat_, except on Sunday, when a meat pudding is made;...") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MEAT TENDERER Not in the OED. Compare, perhaps, with "meat tenderizer." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 1, 1879; Vol. Vol. XL., Iss. 0 31. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 75, 2 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jul 27, 1878; Vol. Vol. XXXIX., Iss. 0 32. Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 60, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 9, 1878; Vol. Vol. XXXVIII., Iss. 0 33. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 92, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; May 12, 1877; Vol. Vol. XXXVI., Iss. 0 34. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 300, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Nov 25, 1876; Vol. Vol. XXXV., Iss. 0 35. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 347, 2 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Sep 4, 1875; Vol. Vol. XXXIII., Iss. 0 36. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 156, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; May 8, 1875; Vol. Vol. XXXII., Iss. 0 37. IMPROVED MEAT TENDERER.; pg. 294, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Mar 6, 1875; Vol. Vol. XXXII., Iss. 0 38. Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 156, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Mar 16, 1872; Vol. Vol. XXVI., Iss. 0 39. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 187, 1 pgs ("Meat tenderer, M. M. Pellea.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 06:49:17 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:49:17 -0400 Subject: Hand-Me-Down (1826) Message-ID: The Word Spy yesterday had "hand-me-up," and it's mentioned that OED has 1874 for "hand-me-down." Merriam-Webster has 1827 for "hand-me-down." Hm. Casket (1826-1830), Philadelphia; Sep 1826; Vol. VOL. I., Iss. 0 THE BRIDEGROOM'S PROBATION.; A Tale from the German, illustrating the mode in which the German writers treat English subjects. ; pg. 278, 2 pgs (Pg. 278: "The daughter of the colonel was an awkward country girl, with round chubby cheeks like Reuben's cherubim, and looking particularly odd in the hand-me-down attire of her sainted mother, which did not at all fit her, and was of course not of the most fashionable cut.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 10:02:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:02:22 EDT Subject: Acai ("The New Fruit in the Blender") Message-ID: http://www.amazon.com.br/camta/acaiRio.htm http://www.amazonacai.com/faq.shtml "Acai" is not in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS (2001), which has 25,000 terms. This is from today's WALL STREET JOURNAL, 18 April 2003, pg. W10, col. 4: _The New Fruit_ _In the Blender_ (...) Wheatgrass, protein shakes--so 2002. At juice bars and health stores around the country, the hip new taste is acai, (pronounced ah-sigh-EE) a grape-size, deep-purple berry that grows atop palm trees in the Brazilian jungle. In the two years since it hit the U.S., sales have jumped five-fold to $2.5 million, says Ryan Black, founder of Sambazon, the fruit's main U.S. importer, while at Juice It Up, a California chain, acai drinks and dishes account for 10% of sales. (...) Fans say the fruit (which comes to the U.S. as frozen pulp) not only tastes good, but also is good for you--packed with anthocyanins, the same antioxidants that give red wine its health benefits. And, in a hat trick of health-bar chic, it's good for the Amazon, too, because it's collected by local families who can earn as much as $1,000 during the December-to-August harvest season (twice as much as they can usually make). (....) Of course, the fruit is just the latest exotic newcomer looking for a place in U.S. produce aisles--remember the starfruit? And the acai's new-found cachet would probably take a lot of Brazilians by surprise: There, acai, whose taste has been likened to blueberry with a hint of chocolate, typically is eaten as puddinglike mush over bananas for breakfast. (ADS-ers Kathleen Miller and Dennis Preston have been to Brazil. Any verdict on acai?...I'm supposed to remember starfruit?--ed.) From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Apr 18 13:02:02 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:02:02 -0400 Subject: FW: Antedating of "Bakery" Message-ID: Fred's discovery of bakery in Washington is a marvelous antedating (see below), but from the context it is clear that it is by no means the first-ever citation. GW uses the word in a setting with other familiar terms that he expects everyone will know -- no place to find a new word. This whole issue with bakery is a great example of the "citational fallacy". The original OED readers (probably scores of them) read right past the word bakery many times, surely, in works older than 1820. Amateur and even trained readers are attracted to oddball words, not common ones. [Aside: That is the problem with dictionaries that rely solely on citational evidence -- they miss covering the common words well and thoroughly, because the bulk of their evidence has to do with other sorts of words, owing to the nature of reading for citations. Citation reading can be compared to searching for butterflies, and capturing and keeping only the interesting specimens. If enough citation reading has been done over time, good citation-based dicts have good examples of early usage for oddball words and newish words (and of many common words as well, to be sure), but they often miss good coverage of common words. Not always, but often.] OED had an 1820 example as their oldest when the editor came to write that entry, so that editor HAD to go with that as the first example. Back in those days -- and bakery would have been in Murray's time, I think -- there was no means to efficiently track down an earlier example of a given word, and besides, no time. Even OED cannot do (much of) that sort of research. Even today, with awesome electronic means, OED editors may not have time to go digging around for something earlier, on a hunch. The entry one is working on (and many thousands more that will follow, forever) has to be revised, and the update or new edition completed or moved along, at least. If the lexo stops to do further research, entry after entry, the update or revision would never get finished. Even OED has deadlines -- no dig at them at all, just an acknowledgment that, because of the incredibly massive scope of OED, it SEEMS that it takes a long time to get OED revisions out, but in fact it they come out at a pretty brisk pace now, given the task OED faces -- every day, every year, every decade, for the rest of time, as long as the English she is spoken and OUP carries on. It is for Barry P, Fred S, Jerry C, and others to find antedatings of individual words, not necessarily the staff of OED. Frank Abate -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Laurence Horn Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:25 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Antedating of "Bakery" Fred uncovers: >bakery (OED c1820) > >1780 George Washington _Let._ 24 May in _Writings of Washington_ (1937) >XVIII. 411 Independent of the apartments for the sick, there must be one >or more kitchens; an apothecarys shop; a magazine for drugs and remedies; >an oven; a bakery. > Can this really be the first cite? George Washington, the father of our "bakery"? From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Fri Apr 18 16:00:00 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:00:00 -0700 Subject: troops Message-ID: Here is an amusing little anecdote about the meaning of the word 'troops' that I came across in _Civil War Treasury of Tales, Legends and Folklore_ by B. A. Botkin p. 575: POINT OF VIEW WE HAVE A FRIEND, A Miss Anderson who lives in Washington D.C. One time another mutual friend, an army officer, invited her to go with him to the battlefield of Gettysburg. Arriving there they went to the scene of Pickett's charge, which he was studying. He said to the young lady: "Now this is where the troops were and the enemy was over there," indicating the position. Miss Anderson said: "No, the enemy was [where] the troops were and the troops were over there"--indicating the opposite situation. He said: "No, you do not understand--the troops were here and the enemy was there." To which she replied: " I understand you, but I still maintain that the troops were here and the enemy there." as she had previously indicated. Her friend paused, looked quizzically at her for a few moments and then said: "Where were you born and reared?" With a smile she replied: " In Tennessee." ---- Annie C. Murray BTW, in our Civil War reenacting group, we use 'trooper' (we are a cavalry unit) as the singular. Fritz Juengling >>> mam at THEWORLD.COM 04/16/03 01:50PM >>> This usage is nothing new. I seem to recall being prescriptively warned against this in my high school grammar books in the early sixties. That doesn't mean I like it! -- Mark A. Mandel From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Fri Apr 18 18:43:49 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:43:49 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <20030417.211034.-228543.4.dcamp911@juno.com> Message-ID: Woops, I think I mis-finger-spoke. When I wrote > > Note > > that we > > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," I meant that we don't say "I'll try and" as a complete statement, but we do say "I'll try to." For me the first statement is asterisk-ed. Likewise, one wouldn't (at least I wouldn't) say, "I'll take and." I'd have to follow it up with "...[verb]" -- "I'll take and ream that out oncet or twicet and get it to fit." But -- "Who'll do it?" -- "I'll try and." doesn't work for me. -- "I'll try to." does. PR > > Maybe not where you live, but it is very common in northern Pennsylvania. From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Fri Apr 18 18:47:26 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:47:26 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ...and we dass'n't forget "He hauled off and..." Does anyone have a notion of what could originally have been hauled off? Or has this always been intransitive? PR > Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" > construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a > little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: > > He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. > He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. > > but ok: > He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound > He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) > > Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: > > Go catch a falling star. > Go (and) eat your own cookies. > > Larry > From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 19:43:38 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:43:38 -0400 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >...and we dass'n't forget "He hauled off and..." Does anyone have a >notion of what could originally have been hauled off? Or has this always >been intransitive? > Not sure what the first haulee-off was, but my favorite has to be the Wayne Raney song (as sung most memorably by Rose Maddox), "Why Don't You Haul Off and Love Me?" (on one of my classic Maddox Brothers and Rose albums). Then there's the more recent "Haul Off and Kiss Me" (the Shangri-Las?). Larry From mam at THEWORLD.COM Fri Apr 18 20:32:54 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:32:54 -0400 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Alice Faber wrote: #Mark A Mandel wrote: #>On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: #> #>#Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. #> #>To which I say: * #> # #How about "what we are, is puzzled by it all"? Fine with me, and the asterisk drops off. "Go and catch a falling star." -- Mark M. From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Fri Apr 18 21:06:10 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:06:10 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And the currently popular "Go ahead and..." [go at hEd@n~gw at hed@n~gwEd at n] (discussed here sometime ago). Peter Mc. --On Friday, April 18, 2003 11:47 AM -0700 Peter Richardson wrote: > ...and we dass'n't forget "He hauled off and..." Does anyone have a > notion of what could originally have been hauled off? Or has this always > been intransitive? > > PR > >> Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" >> construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a >> little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: >> >> He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. >> He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. >> >> but ok: >> He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound >> He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) >> >> Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: >> >> Go catch a falling star. >> Go (and) eat your own cookies. >> >> Larry >> ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From RonButters at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 01:46:35 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:46:35 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20ADS=20sessions=20at=20the?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=20MLA=20convention?= Message-ID: Did you get any takers? In a message dated 3/23/03 8:26:09 PM, MAdams1448 at AOL.COM writes: > Dear Colleagues:  As of today, no one has yet proposed to give a paper in > one > of the ADS sessions at this year's MLA convention in San Diego.  There are > still a few days before I have to submit the paperwork to MLA, so this is a > last call for anyone caught up in other things who would nonetheless like a > place on the MLA program.  Please send an abstract on any American > speech-realted topic that interests you to MAdams1448 at aol.com.  I must have > submissions by April 1.  It would be a shame for the ADS to disappear from > the MLA program -- perhaps the first time in ADS/MLA history. > > Thanks for considering this desperate call for papers. > > Michael Adams > > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 04:11:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:11:43 -0400 Subject: Indian Candy (1982) Message-ID: It's a treat to find "Indian candy"--brown-sugar-cured salmon--sharing a plate with salmon jerky and peppery cold-smoked salmon. --GOURMET magazine, May 2003, pg. 58, col. 1 I posted "squaw candy," but forgot to add "Indian candy." Here's the first citation on the Dow Jones database, which is a start: Bay Street man's move to B.C. was a profitable one BONNIE STERN 1,345 Words 12/28/1982 The Globe and Mail SB8 ... The barbecued salmon that is sold all over Vancouver is "hot smoked" at much higher temperatures, so the fish actually gets cooked. While in Vancouver I also first tasted what Ray called "Indian Candy". These are strips of Sockeye salmon that have been cured and hot-smoked twice, resulting in salmon that is sweet, salty, chunky and wonderful. It became a favorite of mine, but I have never seen it here. ... ships it collect via air freight (the expensive part) and it should only take a day. All orders must be prepaid. Obviously, the more you buy, the more worthwhile it is to ship, but I would recommend buying at least one side of red spring (10 pounds) and a few strips of Indian Candy. (...) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 04:59:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:59:15 -0400 Subject: Freezer Bag(1948); Refrigerator Bag(1918); Ice Bag(1857) Message-ID: FREEZER BAG This is not included in my food dictionaries, although stuff like "aluminum foil" is there. Most likely, Sharon Herbst just forgot to add it in the FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION (1995), and some later dictionaries copying that just didn't make the addition. For you Connecticut trivia buffs, is it a CT first? Display Ad 77 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 8, 1948; pg. X20, 1 pgs: _FREEZER BAGS_ CHEAPER THAN CELLULOSE! BETTER THAN CELLULOSE! RE-USABLE! REQUIRES NO BOXES! Made of Pollene Refrigerator Bags--$1.00 set of seven SHORE LINE INDUSTRIES CLINTON 1, CONNECTICUT --------------------------------------------------------------- REFRIGERATOR BAG OED has "ice bag" (from 1883), but not "freezer bag" or "refrigerator bag." The Google numbers don't help this one: ICE BAG--12,500 Google, 1,840 Google Groups FREEZER BAG--8,900 Google, 4,180 Google Groups REFRIGERATOR BAG--53 Google, 13 Google Groups Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 31, 1918; pg. 7, 1 pgs: _ICE BAGS_ Stamped sanitary refrigerator bags for lettuce, parsley and celery. 25c value, 15c. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE BAG Classified Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Jun 26, 1857; pg. 6, 2 pgs (Pg. 7: "Ice Cream Moulds, Ice Bags, Ice Picks, &c.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 06:16:48 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:16:48 -0400 Subject: Martini Glass(1934); Mote Spoon(1913); Mouli Grater(1948); Muffin Pan(1878) Message-ID: MARTINI GLASS Not in the revised OED. Display Ad 18 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1934; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 10 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1934; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("Then I put in a scoop of ice cubes, stir the mixture slowly with a long spoon and pour it into a Martini glass which contains a tiny green olive.") --------------------------------------------------------------- MOTE SPOON Not in the revised OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD CITIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry with a fine illustration. Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 18, 1974; pg. C9, 1 pgs Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 17, 1974; pg. D15, 1 pgs (Col. 3: "...sterling mote spoon...") METROPOLITAN GETS A RARE TRIPTYCH; The Work of Sixteenth Century Painter Now on Exhibition in the Museum.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 12, 1913; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("Fifty-four silver mote spoons are an interesting collection and would make most satisfactory tea spoons of the present day.") --------------------------------------------------------------- MOULI GRATER Not in the revised OED. Again, WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry with a nice illustration of it. Jesse Sheidlower should get a mouli grater--it's the "gratest." Ways to Prepare Foods Are Given; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 5, 1962; pg. 51, 1 pgs Article 5 -- No Title; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 18, 1962; pg. SM42, 2 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; May 11, 1957; pg. A7, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; May 10, 1957; pg. A19, 1 pgs Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 26, 1948; pg. B13, 1 pgs: _"Mouli" Grater_ $1.00 The famous "Mouli" all-purpose grater (the same model used in France by fine French cuisines)...grates coarse or fine, can be operated right or left-handed. Use it for cheese, nutmeg, cocoanut, chocolate, horseradish or crackers and various kinds of vegetables...with no contact between your fingers and the grate drum. Sanitary drum is easily removed for cleaning. No skinned knuckles or broken nails with the Mouli Grater. --------------------------------------------------------------- MUFFIN PAN Not in the revised OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry and an illustration. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 16, 1888; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Flour Dredges, 3c; 6-ring Muffin Pans, 10c; Potato Mashers, 1c;...") TIN YEARS OF MATRIMONY.; A Tintinnabulation of Tin Plate, and Tinternells and Tin Cups of Tinte.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 13, 1878; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Among them were spice and cake boxes, a muffin pan, an egg beater,...") --------------------------------------------------------------- MUSTARD SPOON Again, not in the revised OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry and an illustration. Silver mustard spoons often made the newspapers by being stolen. 18 August 1845, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGE, pg. 2: The extent of the robbery appears to have been a teapot, sugar bowl, three table spoons, two salt and two mustard spoons, all silver, and some articles of clothing, together valued at about $150. Classified Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Dec 31, 1856; pg. 5, 2 pgs Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Jan 31, 1854; pg. 5, 2 pgs BROOKLYN CITY.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1852; pg. 1, 1 pgs ("GRAND LARCENY...1 silver mustard spoon.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 07:29:35 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:29:35 -0400 Subject: Potato Masher (1852); Snifter (1934, 1936) Message-ID: Even the revised OED is pretty bad on culinary equipment, and there's a lot more. I live on East 57th Street, near Bloomingdale's. Once I walk about two blocks to the Williams-Sonoma store and ask for the catalog, look out. --------------------------------------------------------------- POTATO MASHER OED has 1855 for the popular "potato masher." The American Periodical Series might have earlier, but I'm at NYU. 6 April 1852, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: ...1 potato masher... --------------------------------------------------------------- SNIFTER OED has 1937 for the glass. 1. NEW THINGS LURE THE CITY SHOPPER; Variety of Christmas Gifts for Women Are to Be Found at Moderate Prices. ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 6, 1936; pg. D9, 1 pgs ("Liqueur glasses that are distinctive and at the same time easily replaceable are copies of brandy snifters in miniature. They are about two inches high, with tiny stems and squat, tapered little bowls.") 2. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 2, 1934; pg. 7, 1 pgs: _AN ARISTOCRATIC SNIFTER_ For modern convenience Saks has reproduced the Classic Brandy Inhaler in a size to fit in Penthouse cupboards--these beautifully proportioned glasses have a narrow gold brim balanced by another at the base. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 08:08:31 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 04:08:31 -0400 Subject: Sour Glass (1934); Pilsener Glass (1935); Tomato Knife (1956) Message-ID: SOUR GLASS OED has no entry for "sour glass." Display Ad 54 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 21, 1937; pg. 14, 1 pgs Display Ad 75 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 17, 1937; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 15, 1936; pg. X21, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 19, 1934; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("SPECIAL glasses for whiskey sours, 10.00 per dozen (and if you have ever tried to find whiskey sour glasses, you know that you usually get a bewildered look)." Sold by Saks Fifth Avenue--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- PILSENER GLASS OED has 1966 for "Pilsener glass." I checked for "Pilsener" and "Pilsner." Display Ad 49 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 30, 1941; pg. 48, 1 pgs (A Macy's ad shows several glasses, including "Pilsener"--ed.) New Things in City Shops: For the Place in the Country; The Five-and-Tens Offer a Great Variety Not Only in China and Glassware but Also in Other Items for the House and for Picnics; By CHARLOTTE HUGHES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 6, 1941; pg. D7, 1 pgs ("...tall sloping pilsener glasses on round bases;...") BLACKOUT for BEER?; A Germany without beer, the ideal of the present rulers of the State, seems a strange and melancholy prospect.; By CLAIR PRICE, European and Times Wide World; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1940; pg. 115, 1 pgs ("...and some note of lyric happiness would sing in the depths of his orderly German soul as he worked out the number of tall tapering Pilsener glasses or the number of Bavarian mugs that would be filled by that ocean of German beer.") Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 25, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("30 dozen Pilsner glasses in plaid design" is in an ad for B. Altman & Co., Fifth Avenue and 34th Street. The place that once sold Pilsner glasses now houses the NYPL's Science Industry, and Business Library, where they can't find all my books--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- TOMATO KNIFE Not in OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry and an illustration. I'll add it here to please the tomato crowd out there, before I forget. Display Ad 75 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jun 9, 1977; pg. B13, 1 pgs Display Ad 1043 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 3, 1976; pg. 21, 1 pgs Display Ad 36 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 17, 1968; pg. 23, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 16, 1965; pg. 4, 1 pgs For Tangy Treats Use Cottage Cheese; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1965; pg. D9, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 6, 1965; pg. 7, 1 pgs News of the Advertising and Marketing Fields; Methods of Promoting Scientifc Advances Come Under Attack; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 8, 1956; pg. 66, 1 pgs Food: Cookie Forms; Wood Blocks Can Press Out Such Shapes As Gingerbread Men, Birds and Animals ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 12, 1956; pg. 43, 1 pgs ("Bazar Francais also has a tomato knife ($1.98) with a serrated edge that permits the softest tomato to be cleanly sliced.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 08:52:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 04:52:28 -0400 Subject: Omelet Pan (1865); Paella Pan (1960; Springform Pan (1960) Message-ID: OMELET PAN OED has no entry. Again, there's an entry and an illustration in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. There are over 8,000 Google hits. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Goodfellow, Mrs. Title: Mrs. Goodfellow's cookery as it should be. A new manual of the dining room and kitchen ... Publication date: [1865] Page 120 - 1 term ("...put a piece of butter in your omelet-pan upon a slow fire;...") 9 January 1879, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Before mixing the white of the eggs I carefully grease the omelet pan with the butter, and, having done, I put all my ingredients into the pan. Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 5, 1893; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Retinned Omelet Pans" for sale at WOODWARD & LOTHROP--ed.) MEALS FOR A DAY.; LEAVING HOME FOR A DAY OR TWO--HARMONY IN THE HOUSEHOLD.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 14, 1882; pg. 11, 1 pgs OTHER RECEIPTS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 10, 1881; pg. 13, 1 pgs HOW TO COOK EGGS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 9, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs RECEIPTS FOR THE TABLE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 15, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("...melt an ounce of the butter in an omelet pan,...") --------------------------------------------------------------- PAELLA PAN Not in OED. Store Places Kitchen Aid In Spotlight; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 8, 1960; pg. 16, 1 pgs Gourmet Shop Proves Nostalgic for Traveler; By CYNTHIA KELLOGG; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 7, 1960; pg. 36, 1 pgs (Bloomingdale's Au Gourmet Shop. "'We're the only store in the United States, I think, that carries paella pans,' Mr. Meyers boasted, pointing out the shallow, wide round pans ($3.95 to $9.95), which the Spaniards use for the succulent combinations of rice, fish pimento, pepper and chicken.") Dishes From Castile; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 25, 1955; pg. SM52, 2 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- SPRINGFORM PAN Not in OED. Food Guide Assists Budgeting Housewife; RUM BUNS; Anne's Reader Exchange; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 5, 1960; pg. C2, 1 pgs ("Grease an 8-inch spring form pan and line bottom with waxed paper.") Chocolate -- The Favored Flavor; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 6, 1960; pg. SM66, 1 pgs ("Turn into an eight-inch springform pan.") From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Sat Apr 19 09:03:27 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 10:03:27 +0100 Subject: Omelet Pan (1865); Paella Pan (1960; Springform Pan (1960) In-Reply-To: <4F9B609C.438BB456.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: Barry Popik wroteL > OMELET PAN OED has no entry. Er, my copy does, though it gives it as "omelette (frying)-pan", with a first entry in that form from 1846. The first example of "omelette pan" is from 1879, so you've dead-heated with OED2 there. -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 10:40:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 06:40:44 -0400 Subject: Food Additive(1945); Food Poisoning(1886); Meat Byproduct(1927); Crab Cracker; Lobster Cracker Message-ID: I planned to re-check "omelet/omelette pan" later today with the American Periodical Series. Sorry if I made an error there and didn't see "omelette frying-pan." --------------------------------------------------------------- FOOD ADDITIVE OED has 1958 for "food additive." The Civilian Atom; Radiation Promises Longer Life for Food That Now Spoils Easily Scientists Keep Meat Cuts Fresh for Weeks, Bread for Months, Spuds for Years Future Marketing Revolution?; BY RAY VICKER Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 19, 1954; pg. 1, 2 pgs Today's Calendar; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Apr 14, 1954; pg. 50, 1 pgs Radioactive Atoms Are Proving Gold Mine To Industry, Farms; New Techniques Bring Savings in The Millions and It's Only the Beginning Radioactive Atoms Are Proving Gold Mine To Industry, Farms ; BY RAY CROMLEY Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 25, 1953; pg. 1, 2 pgs U. S. FOOD AIDE ASKS DRIVE ON 'QUACKS'; Experts at Nutrition Meeting Hear Law Is Skirted -- Court Criticized on Inspection ; By BESS FURMANSpecial to THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 10, 1952; pg. 46, 1 pgs Atom, Germ Attack Couldn't Seriously Cut U.S. Food-Supply, Nutrition Group Told; By Aubrey Graves Country Life Editor; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 10, 1952; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("Crawford said the Food and Drug Law also lacks authority 'to properly regulate the sea of food additives with strange chemical names, some of which may be harmful or otherwise contrary to consumer interest.'") Display Ad 35 -- No Title; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 11, 1945; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("The beverages, baby foods, dextrose sugars, food additives and the manifold uses of alcohol in peace have their origin in _malt_.") --------------------------------------------------------------- FOOD POISONING OED has 1887. (JSTOR database) Volume Information Science, Vol. 8, No. 204. (Dec. 31, 1886). Pg. 643: Food-poisoning, 279. --------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT BY-PRODUCT Not in OED? There are many food "by-products." WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has: "_meat by-products_ The edible and wholesome parts of a beef, veal, lamb or pork carcass other than skeletal meat. _See_ variety meats." Display Ad 170 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 23, 1947; pg. SM63, 1 pgs WPB Urges Cut in Output Of Sausage; Old Established Makers of 'Franks' Endangered by Excess of Product; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 6, 1943; pg. B1, 1 pgs Display Ad 39 -- No Title; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 11, 1927; pg. 11, 1 pgs ("_A Meat by-product worth $5,000 a pound_" is the title of an ad by Armour and Company--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CRAB CRACKER Not in OED. It's used to eat crabs. NELL'S BEAU ATE; So Willis "Jes Riles Up" and Lands on Martha's Eye. TIRED OF BEING THE "GOAT" Hodcarrier From Montgomery County Didn't Object to Providing Food for Boarding House, but He Sure "'Jected to Half a Sweet 'Tater; The Washington Post, Washington, D.C.; Sep 11, 1910; pg. A12, 1 pgs ("In proof of her story that Willis 'done clout me wif a crab crackah,' she exhibited as fine a specimen of a black eye as ever came into the courtroom, and there have been many.") --------------------------------------------------------------- LOBSTER CRACKER Not in OED. It's used to eat lobsters. There's also "lobster pincer," but Historical Newspapers didn't seem to have that. Display Ad 44 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 7, 1913; pg. CA9, 1 pgs ("Lobster cracker.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 19:59:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:59:53 -0400 Subject: Spoonula (1956) Message-ID: SPOONULA=spoon + spatula. I guess they couldn't go with "spatoon." It's not in my food dictionaries, but I saw it in the Williams-Sonoma catalog (www.williams-sonoma.com). Here are trademark records: Word Mark SPOONULA Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 009. US 026. G & S: Stainless Steel Laboratory Tools Having a Spoon on One End and a Spatula on the Other End. FIRST USE: 19560900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19560900 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72082418 Filing Date September 30, 1959 Registration Number 0698571 Registration Date May 31, 1960 Owner (REGISTRANT) FISHER SCIENTIFIC COMPANY CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 717 FORBES ST. PITTSBURGH PENNSYLVANIA Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19800531 Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date June 9, 2001 Word Mark SPOONULA Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 021. US 002 013 023 029 030 033 040 050. G & S: Spatulas Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 76317870 Filing Date September 27, 2001 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Owner (APPLICANT) Progressive International Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 6111 South 228th Street Kent WASHINGTON 98064 Attorney of Record John R. Benefiel Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date July 16, 2002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 23:34:17 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:34:17 -0400 Subject: Plett Pan(1961); Grapefruit Knife(1916); Grapefruit Spoon(1912) Message-ID: GRAPEFRUIT KNIFE OED has no entry, but two 1970s hits. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 12, 1924; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 25, 1919; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 9, 1916; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Grapefruit Knives. 25c and up" at Woodward & Lothrop--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- GRAPEFRUIT SPOON OED has no entry for "grapefruit spoon." Display Ad 223 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 3, 1919; pg. 52, 1 pgs Display Ad 43 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 9, 1918; pg. F5, 1 pgs ("Orange or Graphefruit Spoons" sold at The Shopping Center at The Palais Royal--ed.) SILVERWARE FOR THE TABLE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1912; pg. X11, 1 pgs ("Orange knives are made with the saw edge, and the grapefruit spoon, which differs from the orange spoon by being made broader at the end of the heel of the bowl, is new only in pattern; in fact, that is about the only difference that could be made in it, for, contrived on the basis of the size of the grapefruit cells, it could scarcely be improved from its present plan.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PLETT PAN OED has no entry for "plett pan." I have to do something for the ADS-L readers from Sweden. Just About Everything But the Kitchen Sink; Ultimate Gifts: Just About Everything But the Kitchen Sink; By Phyllis C. Richman, Special to The Washington Post; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 6, 1973; pg. F1, 2 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 26, 1973; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 3, 1971; pg. 5, 1 pgs Natural haunts of that rare bird, the gourmet; Dresden is Potomac's dining critic.; By Donald Dresden; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1970; pg. 251, 8 pgs Display Ad 84 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Apr 8, 1970; pg. B16, 1 pgs Display Ad 72 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 23, 1964; pg. 73, 1 pgs New Household Gadgets Find Favor in the Shops; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 7, 1963; pg. 40, 1 pgs ("At Macy's, the $2.79 Plett Pan, for making seven Swedish pancakes at a time, is very popular, according to George Edelstein, the buyer.") Article 5 -- No Title; Swedish Cook Advocate of Simplicity; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 2, 1961; pg. 41, 1 pgs Variety of Pancakes Come Into Their Own on Tuesday; Blini, Flapjacks and Crepes Linked With Day; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 9, 1961; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("Call them plattar or blini, flapjacks or crepes, next Tuesday marks the day when pancakes come into their own.") (PHOTO CAPTION: "A plett pan, pictured above, simplifies the cooking of the small Swedish pancakes and the Russian blini.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 00:15:41 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:15:41 -0400 Subject: Pizza Cutter(1961); Pizelle Iron(1949); Pizzelle(1912); Gaufrette(1926) Message-ID: PIZZA CUTTER OED doesn't eat pizza. Display Ad 160 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 15, 1969; pg. F6, 1 pgs ("Stainless steel pizza cutter...") Records Designed To Teach Children; By Dorothea M. Brooks; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jul 29, 1967; pg. D13, 1 pgs ("Comes complete with pans, lifter, pizza cutter and a package of prepared cheese pizza mix.") Food News; Pasta at Bruno's Is Fresh Each Day; By JUNE OWEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 21, 1961; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("Espresso coffee machines from a one-cup size to a restaurant model costing $8,000 also are among the products on hand, along with Italian dolls, glass from Murano, pizza cutters and bottled herbs and spices.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PIZELLE IRON OED has no entry for "pizelle iron." News of Food; New Device Lends South's Touch to Meals by Baking Hot Bread and Cakes Quickly ; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 6, 1949; pg. 36, 1 pgs ("A utensil of longer culinary tradition than most experts would dare to estimate is being revived for the use of epicure-cooks. It is called a gaufrette or pizelle iron, and turns out (after one has had a little experience with it) crisp, delicate wafers of the type that is classic with champagne and sweet wine, at least in France and Italy. ... One iron consists of two extremely long handles, terminating in two hinged-together grids (round or square, according to the style). The batter is put between the grids, the handles clamped together, and the grids held over a burner for just about a minute. Out comes the gaufrette, or as we would say, wafer--flaky, golden brown, ready to be served or rolled as a cornucopia for ice cream, custard or other dessert.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PIZZELLE Not in OED. FACTS AND FANCIES IN WOMAN'S WORLD; FACTS AND FANCIES IN WOMAN'S WORLD; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 22, 1912; pg. 4, 2 pgs ("Pizzelle." A long recipe follows--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- GAUFRETTE Not in OED. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 3, 1932; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 21, 1932; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("Gaufrette Potatoes" is served at Longchamps restaurant--ed.) Cooking as a Tradition, an Art and a Necessity; Three Books Which Deal With What Goes Into the Inner Man; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 4, 1926; pg. BR9, 1 pgs ("...gateau noisette, almond rolls, gaufrettes, imitation fruits, banana jalousie, almond pasties, petits fours.") From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Sun Apr 20 00:53:37 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:53:37 -0400 Subject: possible antedating of Melungeon/Malungeon? Message-ID: The OED has 1840 (but spelled "malungeon" in the cite). My M-W Collegiate doesn't recognize it as a word. An investigative reporter wrote an article which said [The word was used in the September 26th, 1813 minutes of the Stoney Creek church of Virginia. Sister Susanna Kitchen brought a complaint to the church against Sister Susanna "Sookie" Stallard for "harboring them Melungins."] The link to his article is http://www.eclectica.org/v5n3/hashaw.html As a secondary issue, the writer claims that the word is from the Kimbundu language spoken by the Mbundu nation in Angola in the 1600's and originally meant "watercraft" and that the "shipmates" who were brought to the US used the term to refer to themselves. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 01:44:42 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:44:42 -0400 Subject: Wine List(1854, 1855); Fortified Wine(1874); Ice Wine(1953); Jug Wine(1971) Message-ID: WINE LIST OED has "wine list" from George Bernard Shaw's 1898 play, YOU NEVER CAN TELL. COLLEGE COMMENCEMENTS; Yale College Baccalaureate Address--Pal Upsilon Convention--Concle ad Clerum--Alumnl Meeting.. ; Correspondence of the New-York Daily Times.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Jul 27, 1855; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("One curiousity of the bill of fare we must not omit to notice,--it was got up with the profoundest respect to the Prohibitory Liquor Law of the State--there was no wine list." NO WINE AT YALE??--ed.) THE BLACK WARRIOR AFFAIR.; Full and Authentic Statement of Facts. ; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; May 29, 1854; pg. 3, 1 pgs (The "wine list" here is the context of a ship's holdings--ed.) 6 December 1856, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: In the meantime, guests at the Delavan House will please look on the back of the bill-of-fare at the dinner table for the wine list, and order up such brands as suit them best. 6 August 1857, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: MANSION HOUSE, BROOKLYN, AUGUST 5TH, 1857. (...) WINE LIST. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: [Underhill, Edward Fitch] 1830-1898. Title: The history and records of the Elephant club; comp. from authentic documents now in possession of the Zoèological society. By Knight Russ Ockside, M. D. [pseud.] and Q. K. Philander Doesticks, P. B. [pseud.] Publication date: 1857. ("He then opened his bill of fare at the wine-list, and after puzzling for some time over the names, put his finger in the middle, and told the waiter he would 'have some of that.'") --------------------------------------------------------------- FORTIFIED WINE OED and Merriam-Webster have 1906 for "fortified wine." WASTING PRECIOUS TIME; ANOTHER DAY DEVOTED TO THE PAYNE SCANDAL. A VOTE TO BE REACHED TO-DAY ON THE INVESTIGATION--THE SESSION OF THE HOUSE DAWDLED AWAY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 23, 1886; pg. 1, 1 pgs ("The bill to abrogate the Hawaiian treaty, that to make effective the Mexican treaty, one for regulating the tax on fortified wines, and several others were laid aside in turn.") THE MANUFACTURE OF SHERRY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1874; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Even these advocates of the fortified wine admit, however, that port an sherry never enter the London docks with less than thirty-eight to forty-two per cent. 'proof-spirit' or alcohol.") --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE WINE OED has 1963 for "ice wine." Merriam-Webster has 1967? News of Food; Britain Bids for U. S. Kipper Market -- 'Edinburger' Is Skinned, Boned, Frozen ; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 9, 1953; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("_Ice Wine From Germany._ ... It is an eiswein (literally, ice wine) from one of the greatest German vineyards, the Schloss Johannisberg. ... The eiswein, to return to it, is slightly sweet with a dry finish and with the characteristic, marked bouquet of the fine German white wines.") --------------------------------------------------------------- JUG WINE Merriam-Webster has 1972 for "jug wine." Display Ad 49 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 29, 1971; pg. A23, 1 pgs ("GALLON IMPORTED SPANISH 'JUG WINE'") Good Things Come in Big Jugs; Consumer; By Peter Weaver; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 21, 1971; pg. 108, 1 pgs ("For example, some excellent bargains can be found in the so-called 'American jug wines' sold in gallon or half-gallon bottles.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 02:33:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:33:25 -0400 Subject: Cake Breaker (1932, 1938); Corn Holder (1907) Message-ID: CAKE BREAKER Not in OED. CALE J. SCHNEIDER, INVENTOR, 79, DIES; Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 29, 1971; pg. 26, 1 pgs: Cale J. Schneider, who invented a multi-pronged cake breaker to slice the softest cake, and currently in use as a comb for Afro-American coiffures, died today in his Toledo home. He was 79 years old. Mr. Schneider patented the cake breaker in 1932, the year after he founded a manufacturing concern here under his name. The cake breaker is a fork-like utensil with about a dozen thin prongs. ... For two years, Pillsbury Flour Mills and Duncan Hines purchased hundreds of thousands of the cake breakers to distribute as premiums with their cake mixes. ... Mr. Schneider also invented sweet-corn holders under the name Kob-Knobs. Notes for the Shopper Around Town; By MARY MADISON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 18, 1942; pg. D2, 1 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1938; pg. 15, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 9, 1938; pg. 6, 1 pgs Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 9, 1938; pg. S5, 1 pgs (THE CAKE BREAKER. An ideal article for use in cutting Sponger Cake or Angel Food Cake.") --------------------------------------------------------------- CORN HOLDER Not in OED. Display Ad 13 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 13, 1910; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 9, 1910; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 23, 1909; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 22, 1909; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 7, 1907; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("_Knickerbocker Corn Holders._ For holding corn to be eaten from cob; avoids soiling the hands. 10c pair." Sold at Woodward & Lohtrop--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 03:25:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:25:27 -0400 Subject: Silverware, "Spork," Salad/Ice Tongs, Butter Spreader, Cake Lifter (1893) Message-ID: STUDY OF FORKS; SHARES IN TABLE SILVERWARE FOR THE DINER OUT. New Designs That Are Constantly Coming Into Fashion Demand Alertness on the Part of the Guest -- The Evolution of the Spoon -- The Fork and Its Modern Uses; New York Times (1857, New York, N.Y.; Aug 6, 1893; pg. 11, 1 pgs (...) The dinner progresses until the salad, when comes a huge novelty, a substitute in silver for the lettuce fork and spoon of carved wood. The new creation is a formidable pair of tongs, one end terminating in a large spoon and the other in a large fork, whose prong tips are slightly curved in. Altogether the tongs are a foot long, and the half curve, where you are to grasp them for use, is a handful. The idea is pretty enough, but the present form of carrying it out is too massive, lettuce being so very light. In open-worked silver with a shortened handle the lettuce tongs will become dainty and appropriate. (...)(The unsuccessful "strawberry fork" and "ice cream spoon" are described--ed.) With the latter supper has to share the new combination spoon and fork intended for serving chicken or celery salad. This clever idea of some worker in the precisions metal has, at the end of a long delicate handle, what begins as the bowl of a spoon and ends in three prongs of a fork, sloping outward beyond the outer edge of the bowl. (...)("Bread fork" and "cold meat fork" described--ed.) At breakfast appears the awkward, unornamented "cake lifter" and the cunning little butter "spreader," a new adjunct to the lately added table article, the bread-and-butter plate. The "spreader" is a knife five or six inches long, with a blade varying in size from a half to three-quarters of an inch. One side of the end of the blade is rounded, the other side rises in a point divided into two teeth. You break apart your lump of butter with the teeth, and the blade spreads it on the bread. The butter knife of our fathers is no longer in need. The new notion is to serve butter in tiny balls or curls or cubes patted in the home pantry and kept solid in a cool place until serving. For helping there is a spear or lance of silver or gold, the point of which is thrust through the butter ball and so transferred to the bread-and-butter plate. (...)(Orange spoon, knife, and holder are described--ed.) Cracked ice spoons with small fluted bowls are to replace the pretty, insecure little ice tongs. (...) The applying of the word silver to our tableware is an Americanism, the sister nation using our language speaks of the same thing as plate. NOTES: SILVERWARE--OED has 1860, Merriam-Webster 1848. "Silver ware" is in the BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE from the very beginning in 1841. I'll check the American Periodical Series tomorrow. BUTTER SPREADER--Not in OED, but in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. CAKE LIFTER--Not in OED, but in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. "SPORK"--The spoon/fork is not mentioned here by that name. Unfortunately, there's no illustration. ICE TONGS--OED has this from 1858. SALAD TONGS--OED has no entry. Described here is what OED has as a "salad server," from 1907. From jester at PANIX.COM Sun Apr 20 03:29:04 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:29:04 -0400 Subject: Meat Substitute (1893) In-Reply-To: <77EA820E.25D7D117.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 11:31:49PM -0400, Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > OED has 1931 for "meat substitute." This is the revised > OED. Seemingly everyone should know that "meat substitutes" > were used during World War I, at least. > > There are two earlier BROOKLYN EAGLE hits (1870s and 1880s), > but the system has been changed a little and I didn't see > them. Neither of them is relevant. Jesse Sheidlower From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 03:54:18 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:54:18 -0400 Subject: Bean Pot (1832); Box Grater (1900); Egg Slicer (1903) Message-ID: BEAN POT There's no "bean pot" entry in OED? I'll check the American Periodical Series tomorrow. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) Cattle Shows and Conventions, and Other Matters, by Porcus: pp. 411-414 p. 414 1 match of 'bean pot*' in: Title: The New-England magazine. / Volume 3, Issue 5 Publisher: J. T. and E. Buckingham Publication Date: Nov 1832 City: Boston Pages: 534 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABS8100-0003&byte=116717794 Pg. 414: And again, does not your favorite dish of the bean-pot owe the richness of its flavor, to the once despised tenant of the hog-pen? --------------------------------------------------------------- BOX GRATER Not in OED. It's in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS, and my family had one in our home. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1906; pg. 14, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 7, 1904; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 29, 1904; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1903; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1901; pg. 2, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 3, 1901; pg. 8, 1 pgs Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 16, 1900; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("BOX GRATERS, large. 5c.") --------------------------------------------------------------- EGG SLICER OED has "egg slicer" from 1951. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has a nice illustration, but the term "egg slicer" is vague. What did the 1903 "egg slicer" look like? Display Ad 59 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 8, 1923; pg. X8, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 9, 1923; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 8, 1923; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 69 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 21, 1917; pg. X1, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 27, 1916; pg. X1, 1 pgs Display Ad 46 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 7, 1913; pg. CA11, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 5, 1903; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("EGG SLICERS...10.") From douglas at NB.NET Sun Apr 20 05:14:53 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:14:53 -0400 Subject: possible antedating of Melungeon/Malungeon? In-Reply-To: <000801c306d7$494b1ae0$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: >The OED has 1840 (but spelled "malungeon" in the cite). > >... An investigative reporter wrote an article which said > > [The word was used in the September 26th, 1813 minutes of the Stoney > Creek church of Virginia. Sister Susanna Kitchen brought a complaint to > the church against Sister Susanna "Sookie" Stallard for "harboring them > Melungins."] > >... As a secondary issue, the writer claims that the word is from the >Kimbundu language spoken by the Mbundu nation in Angola in the 1600's and >originally meant "watercraft" and that the "shipmates" who were brought to >the US used the term to refer to themselves. One would need to review the primary document, I suppose ... probably handwritten? Portuguese etymological dictionaries do show "malungo" (= "comrade" or so) as definitely from Kimbundu, the exact form and meaning of the ancestral Kimbundu word apparently uncertain however. I have no Kimbundu reference book available to me. I'm not convinced about "melungeon" however: the "g" is not the same "g" as in "malungo". Origin from "melange" seems phonetically and semantically believable, and "melange" is old in English, so you don't need to involve any Frenchmen. My own wild guess, however, is "Melungeon" < "Mulatto" + "Indian"/"Injun". -- Doug Wilson From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Sun Apr 20 17:22:57 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 Subject: arnetted Message-ID: another nonce eponym (add to dixiechicked) Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for better information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to a new verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, he will be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC network for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki http://www.ahram-eg.com/weekly/2003/634/op10.htm From dcamp911 at JUNO.COM Sun Apr 20 19:05:57 2003 From: dcamp911 at JUNO.COM (Duane Campbell) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:05:57 -0400 Subject: arnetted Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 mark worden > Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for > better > information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to > a new > verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, > he will > be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC > network > for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki Interesting. It brings up a question I have been mulling for a couple of weeks now, ever since the claimed targeting of al Jazera (my spell checker is of no help there). What is the difference between propoganda and journalism? A propoganda operation is a legitimate war target, a journalist is not. Well, usually not. Certainly there is the I-know-it-when-I-see-it element, and the ends of the continuum are pretty recognizable. But can a line be drawn? Is a definition possible that separates them? D From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Sun Apr 20 20:42:20 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:42:20 -0700 Subject: arnetted Message-ID: Some targets are more legitimate than others :: View from Baghdad: Anger at US grows as hunger, looting and gunfights grip the streets. By Nick Meo They didn't want Saddam Hussein back, but most Iraqis were clear about why they had been 'liberated'. 'America bombed the communications ministry, the agriculture ministry and the sports ministry,' said Amir, a taxi driver. 'But they didn't touch the oil ministry.' Sure enough the building was standing intact next to its charred neighbours in the government district, heavily guarded by US troops in contrast to the museum which had its priceless collection destroyed and stolen. http://www.sundayherald.com/33190 > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Duane Campbell > Subject: Re: arnetted > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 mark worden > > > Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for > > better > > information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to > > a new > > verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, > > he will > > be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC > > network > > for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki > > Interesting. > > It brings up a question I have been mulling for a couple of weeks now, > ever since the claimed targeting of al Jazera (my spell checker is of no > help there). What is the difference between propoganda and journalism? A > propoganda operation is a legitimate war target, a journalist is not. > Well, usually not. > > Certainly there is the I-know-it-when-I-see-it element, and the ends of > the continuum are pretty recognizable. But can a line be drawn? Is a > definition possible that separates them? > > D > From mam at THEWORLD.COM Sun Apr 20 20:58:18 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:58:18 -0400 Subject: arnetted In-Reply-To: <000f01c3077d$56c28180$6501a8c0@p417vc11> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, mark worden wrote: #Some targets are more legitimate than others :: [...] Interesting and important in terms of politics and the war. How does it relate to the questions and issues it was posted in reply to? As an instance of propaganda? journalism? ...? -- Mark A. Mandel From pds at VISI.COM Sun Apr 20 21:48:10 2003 From: pds at VISI.COM (Tom Kysilko) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:48:10 -0500 Subject: grabillions Message-ID: City Pages, 4/16/2003, "Fashionista Fedayeen": "The Style Network's offerings fall into a few broad categories: . . . Category Two: Shows you watch because you want to look like the Hilton sisters but lack the necessary grabillions of dollars." [also at http://www.citypages.com/databank/24/1167/article11187.asp ] Tom Kysilko Practical Data Services pds at visi.com Saint Paul MN USA From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 22:14:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:14:28 -0400 Subject: That's the way the cookie crumbles (1956) Message-ID: OED has September 1957 for the crumbling cookie. Demise of Studio One Stirs Some Memories; By John Crosby; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; May 5, 1958; pg. B13, 1 pgs ("That, as they say, is the way the cookie crumbles.") Horses and People..; By Walter Haight; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Jul 23, 1957; pg. A18, 1 pgs ("...but three days before the Chicago race the cookie crumbled the other way.") Look for Many Hours of Charm; By John Crosby; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 19, 1956; pg. G12, 1 pgs ("THAT'S the way the cookie crumbles--casual.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 22:43:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:43:25 -0400 Subject: Garlic Press(1950); Bulb Baster(1941); Pullman Bread(1932); Pullman Pan(1952) Message-ID: GARLIC PRESS OED has 1958 for "garlic press." Display Ad 38 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 6, 1951; pg. C10, 1 pgs Display Ad 1270 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 18, 1951; pg. SM33, 1 pgs Display Ad 1154 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 1, 1950; pg. 209, 1 pgs FOOD; Kitchen Aids; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 6, 1950; pg. SM16, 1 pgs ("Garlic press, like a miniature potato ricer, is efficient in extracting the juice from savory bulb.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BULB BASTER Not in OED. Hints for the Homemaker; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 3, 1952; pg. S13, 1 pgs Meat Baster; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 2, 1951; pg. S6, 1 pgs ("Your tube-and-bulb baster has many uses besides its main purpose of basting meats and poultry with their own juice.") GADGETS FOR THE KITCHEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 15, 1941; pg. SM18, 1 pgs ("New: bulb baster for basting roasts without burning the hands. Can also be used for drawing off fats from gravies.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PULLMAN BREAD Not in OED. The Homemaker; Recipes Necessary for Week-end Plans.; By NANCY CAREY; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 11, 1932; pg. 13, 1 pgs ("(Pullman bread).") --------------------------------------------------------------- PULLMAN PANS Not in OED. Williams-Sonoma sells them. Classified Ad 117 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 29, 1972; pg. W44, 1 pgs Classified Ad 123 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 22, 1972; pg. W44, 1 pgs Classified Ad 25 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 17, 1960; pg. 278, 1 pgs Classified Ad 45 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 4, 1952; pg. W16, 1 pgs ("250 Pullman pans") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 23:45:58 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:45:58 -0400 Subject: Barbecue Sauce(1934); Basting Brush(1954); Barbecue Fork(1947); Potato Ricer(1903); Egg Separator(1895) Message-ID: BARBECUE SAUCE OED has one 1936 citation, but there's no entry. "Barbecue sauce" is like "ketchup," only different. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 31, 1935; pg. 11, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 17, 1935; pg. F2, 1 pgs Smoked Butt Is Substitute For Barbecue; Several Recipes Make Cut of Ham Delicious With Special Sauce.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs Capital Kitchen; By Susan Mills.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 26, 1934; pg. 14, 1 pgs Ground Steak Goes High Hat And Delicious; Well-Known Hamburger Leaves Bean Wagon, Becomes Edible.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 27, 1934; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("An informal party may be made an occasion well spent if one can enjoy hamburger barbecues, slipped between soft rolls and flavored with a little relish of barbecue sauce.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BASTING BRUSH Not in OED. Also called a "barbecue brush," although the first citation is for a barbecue grill cleaner. Display Ad 138 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 24, 1959; pg. X24, 1 pgs ("Barbecue Brush...Barbecue Grill Brush..Brass bristles and metal scraper.") Display Ad.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 20, 1959; pg. 13, 1 pgs YOU CAN BARBECUE YOURSELF; By GEORGE GOBEL; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 21, 1955; pg. TAW10, 1 pgs Display Ad 277 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 22, 1955; pg. 290, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 28, 1954; pg. 4, 1 pgs: TO SEASON Barbecue Sauce Hickory Smoke Salt Mustard Sauce Crooked Black Peppers Herbs-Spices-Vinegar TO GRILL Basting Spoons Basting Brushes Barbecue Forks Hamburger Grills --------------------------------------------------------------- BARBECUE FORK Not in OED. I guess Oxford doesn't barbecue. Display Ad 30 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 1, 1953; pg. 31, 1 pgs Display Ad 1 -- No Title; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 20, 1948; pg. 2, 1 pgs Contemporary Furniture At Its Best; MARY ROCHE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 4, 1948; pg. SM38, 2 pgs Milk Increase Debated; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 29, 1947; pg. B2, 1 pgs Has Anyone Told You?; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 10, 1947; pg. B6, 1 pgs ("BARBECUE FORK has been designed with a trigger control. It can be used for picking up--and holding fast--steaks, frankfurters, toasts; lifting hot pans and dishes from barbecue pits or open fires. The tines are made of heat-treated steel.") --------------------------------------------------------------- POTATO RICER OED has 1936 for "potato ricer." Display Ad 17 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 7, 1909; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 6, 1908; pg. 3, 1 pgs Some Palatable Summer Dishes.; Peanut Bisque.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 24, 1908; pg. X7, 1 pgs FOR THE CHAFING DISH.; Delicious Recipes Furnished by Mrs. Elisabeth O. Hiller.; From the Housekeeper.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 6, 1903; pg. A9, 1 pgs ("Press the yolks of two hard-boiled eggs and the lobster coral through a potato ricer.") --------------------------------------------------------------- EGG SEPARATOR Not in OED. PRACTICAL INVENTIONS TO SAVE LABOR, TIME, AND TROUBLE; The Modern Kitchen Is Filled with New Helpful Devices That Ease the Way of the Cook.; By ANNE RITTENHOUSE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 23, 1908; pg. X9, 1 pgs Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 22, 1905; pg. R2, 1 pgs Classified Ad 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1903; pg. 11, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 19, 1903; pg. TP3, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 29, 1903; pg. 27, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1902; pg. 17, 1 pgs Display Ad 21 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 24, 1895; pg. 24, 1 pgs ("Egg Separator, for separating white and yolk. 14cts.") From mam at THEWORLD.COM Sun Apr 20 23:59:26 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:59:26 -0400 Subject: That's the way the cookie crumbles (1956) In-Reply-To: <796826A8.04BACF72.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: Just a thought on reading your latest antedates, Barry: You are awesome in your production of these, and I do mean 'awe-inspiring'. Bravo! -- Mark A. Mandel From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 01:35:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 21:35:00 -0400 Subject: Oven Mitt (1946); Rub (1990?) Message-ID: OVEN MITT OED has 1969. News of Food; Utensils for Preparing Thanksgiving Fare Are Found Plentiful and Varied This Year ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 22, 1952; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 231 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 2, 1952; pg. SM68, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 6, 1952; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 30, 1952; pg. 5, 1 pgs Classified Ad 44 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 18, 1952; pg. W15, 1 pgs Display Ad 310 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 16, 1952; pg. SG49, 1 pgs Display Ad 193 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 17, 1952; pg. 201, 1 pgs Display Ad 185 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1946; pg. 63, 1 pgs ("PAIR OF OVEN MITTS" at Abraham & Straus store--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- SPICE, STEAK RUB Not in OED under "rub"? Food Notes; A restaurant sauce for home cooking A savory rub for venison A cookbook for "Casablanca" fans Harvest fairs.; Florence Fabricant; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 16, 1992; pg. C7, 1 pgs A Serious Effort To Present Mexico's Regional Cuisines; By FLORENCE FABRICANT, CHICAGO; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 29, 1992; pg. C1, 2 pgs A GOOD GRILLING; BY MOLLY O'NEILL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 31, 1992; pg. SM59, 2 pgs Rejuvenating Faded Flavor Of 1990's Food; Rejuvenating the Faded Flavors of the Food Grown for the 90's; By MOLLY O'NEILL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 14, 1990; pg. C1, 2 pgs ("Marinades and spice rubs, infused vinegars and oils, and a battery of exotic seasonings that add taste, without excessive calories or cholesterol, have all entered the arsenal of cooks who fight for flavor.") Word Mark PBBQ PAUL'S BARBEQUE SPICES & RUBS Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: Seasonings, spices, condiments, namely, relish, sauces and rubs to flavor and season and enhance food Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 011503 260102 Serial Number 78115528 Filing Date March 18, 2002 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition April 1, 2003 Owner (APPLICANT) Egan, Paul INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES PO BOX 32156 Washington D.C. 20007 Attorney of Record Stevan Lieberman Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "BARBECUE SPICES & RUBS" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark TENNESSEE STYLE DRY BAR-B-QUE RUB & COOKING SPICE RIBS CHICKEN FISH Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: spices. FIRST USE: 19911000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19911000 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 011711 030709 030724 031503 031524 031924 031925 240907 260121 Serial Number 74302736 Filing Date August 10, 1992 Published for Opposition August 17, 1993 Registration Number 1803352 Registration Date November 9, 1993 Owner (REGISTRANT) Lambrecht, Thomas E. DBA Lambrecht Food Service INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 5122 Adams Road Hixson TENNESSEE 37343 Attorney of Record Alan Ruderman Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TENNESSEE STYLE DRY BAR-B-QUE RUB & COOKING SPICE RIBS CHICKEN FISH" and the representation of a pig, a chicken, a fish and the state of Tennessee APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date December 23, 2000 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 03:06:26 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:06:26 -0400 Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Message-ID: Again, OED has 1860 and Merriam-Webster 1848 for "silverware." I don't think these are the "silverware" we all know and love (forks, spoons, knives), but take a look. (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES database) March 19, 1761 The Pennsylvania Gazette Cheltenham Township, Philadelphia County. WHEREAS the Partnership between Isaac and George Shoemaker is dissolved, all Persons indebted to them for Goods, are desired to make speedy Payment; and those that have any Demands against said Partnership, to bring in their Accounts, that they may be adjusted. --- The Business will be continued at said Store as usual, by John and Isaac Shoemaker, where the Publick may be supplied with the following Goods, at the most reasonable Rates, viz. West Indian and Philadelphia rum, wine, melasses, sugars, salt and train oil, tar, linseed oils, sweet oil, and spirits of turpentine, Godfreycordials, Bateman drops, saffron, camphire, borax, rosin, brimstone, antimony, looking glasses, window glass and putty, with most sorts of colours for painting, and dye stuffs, powder, shot and bar lead, horse whips, cotton and wool cards, whale bone, hair brushes, soap and candles, raisins, and most sorts of spices, tea, coffee, chocolate, ginger, Salem and Rhode Island cheese, most sorts of kegs, cedar ware, earthen and stone ware, an assortment of pewter, glass and tin ware, tea kettles and brass kettles of most sizes, iron stoves, pots, kettles and skillets, bake plates, cart boxes, frying pans, London steel, sickles, Dutch and English scythes and whetstones, box and flat irons, files and rasps of various sorts, brass and iron wire, coffee mills, fine and coarse grindstones, most sort of Carpenters, joiners and shoemakers tools, 3,4,6,8,10, 12 and 20d nails, hobs and sprigs, house furniture and coffin furniture. silver watches and watch furniture, silver, brass and Pinchbeck buckles, with sundry other << silver ware>> , and a variety of cutlary, bibles, testaments, histories, school books and stationary; also a good assortment of dry goods, such as fine and coarse broadcloths, cotton velvets, breeches patterns, thicksets, duffils, naps, bearskins, kerseys, halfthicks, serges, flannels, bed ticking, coverlids and blankets, silks, calicoes, camblets, jeans, fustians, barragons, duroys, durants, calimancoes, poplins and shaloons, checks, sheeting, coarse and fine linens, muslins, cambricks and lawns, mens and womens hose, gloves and mitts silk, lawn, gause, cotton and check handkerchief, castor and felt hats, plat and paper hats, with a variety of other goods, suitable for the country. July 5, 1770 The Pennsylvania Gazette ON Friday, the 13th of July, will be SOLD by public VENDUE, at the City Vendue Store, in Front street, all the JEWELLERY, and << SILVER WARE>> , belonging to GEORGE DOWIG, Jeweller and Goldsmith; consisting of garnet earrings, set in gold, chrystal ditto, set in ditto, cluster ditto, set in silver, gold stone rings of all kinds, gold locket buttons, plain gold ditto, gold lockets, best chrystal buttons, set in silver, a variety of plate and buckles, likewise a silversmithflatting mill, all his jewellery and silversmithtools, a Negroe man, by trade a silversmith, a variety of unset stones, garnets for earrings, ditto for rings, chrystals for ear and finger rings, chrystals for buttons, &c. &c. Also all his houshold and kitchen furniture. The sale to begin at 9 oin the morning. September 23, 1772 The Pennsylvania Gazette RICHARD HUMPHREYS, GOLDSMITH, HAVING taken the house in which PHILIP SYNG lately dwelt, hereby informs his friends and the public, that he now carries on the GOLDSMITH Business, in all its branches, at the aforesaid place, a few doors below the Coffeehouse, where he has for sale, a NEAT and GENERAL ASSORTMENT of GOLD and << SILVER WARE>> . Those who will please to favour him with their custom, may be assured of his utmost ability to give satisfaction, both in the quality and workmanship; such favours will be gratefully acknowledged by their friend, (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Saturday Evening Post (1821-1830), Philadelphia; Oct 20, 1827; Vol. VOL. VI, Iss. 0 EPITOME OF NEWS.; pg. 0_002, 1 pgs ("...breaking into a dwelling house and stealing silver ware.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 03:17:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:17:49 -0400 Subject: Bean Pot (1820) Message-ID: (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Atkinson's Casket (1831-1839), Philadelphia; Apr 1832, Iss. 0 1. A DAY OF DISTRESS.; pg. 178, 2 pgs Ladies Port Folio (1820-1820), Boston; Feb 19, 1820; Vol. 1, Iss. 8 2. Back Cover; Anonymous; pg. 64, 1 pgs 3. Poetry; F --; pg. 64, 1 pgs Pg. 64, col. 3: FOR THE LADIES' PORT FOLIO. --- A TRUE STORY. It chanc'd one day, as people say, I think, in Charlestown* square, A stage did wait to take some freight; Which often happens there. A man did strive between to drive The stageman and the road; But stage coach stood, like pile of wood, Still waiting for its load. Now "_Beverly_,"** the man could see, All painted on the stage-- "You lazy sot, move that _bean-pot_," He bellows, in a rage. Stageman, in turn, replies with scorn, "Teamster, I'd let you work Your forward way, but I must stay, Till I take in the _pork_. ESSEX. * A town famous for the best of pork. ** A town famous for raising beans. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 04:42:34 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:42:34 -0400 Subject: Recipe Box (1906, 1941, 1948) Message-ID: http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodli.asp?Keywords=recipe+box&Advanced=spine Cooking.com is on a par with www.williams-sonoma.com, and maybe better. If I've missed any cooking equipment (or any food), please let me know and I'll work on it. OED doesn't have "recipe box." It's a little box kept in the kitchen, with recipes in it on index cards. Those were the days before hand-helds. There is a large time gap between these citations, so use caution. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Apr 1906; Vol. Vol. XXIII,, Iss. 0 Advertisement 14 -- No Title; pg. 32, 1 pgs: _HOOSIER KITCHEN CABINET_ (...) The Hoosier metal sugar bin, dust and insect proof (see cut)--the special spice cans, neatly Japanned, air-tight--the housekeeprs' want list of everything used in the kitchen--a wonderful aid to the memory--a card index recipe box, containing the Hoosier system for keeping recipes--the Hoosier aluminum extension sliding table top--gives twice the table space--special cake and bread boxes--the large cupboards and drawers all supply ample room for cooking utensils, tinware, crockery, cereals. (NEW YORK TIMES) News of Food; A Report on Some Recent Research on Available Files for Keeping Recipes; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 29, 1948; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("_The Card-File System_. ...Woolworth has an all-purpose plastic index box that comes in a variety of colors for 79 cents, and a small recipe box in metal for 29 cents.") GADGETS FOR THE KITCHEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 27, 1941; pg. SM14, 1 pgs ("Handy recipe box and menu pad.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 05:59:37 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 01:59:37 -0400 Subject: Candy Shop (1842); Candy Store (1848); Candy Pull (1834) Message-ID: CANDY SHOP OED has 1845 for "candy shop." Graham's Lady's and Gentleman's Magazine (1841-1842), Philadelphia; Aug 1842; Vol. VOL. XXI., Iss. 0 THE JOHNSONS.; BY ANN S. STEPHENS.; pg. 96, 6 pgs Pg. 100: On leaving the candy shop I allowed my tormentor to choose her own directions,... --------------------------------------------------------------- CANDY STORE OED has 1884 for "candy store." 3 March 1848, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: The nurse-maid who brought them over on returning to the city stopped at a cake or candy store some where in Fulton street, and desired the woman who kept it to give the children some soft cake as they had just been having teeth taken out. 11 September 1848, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: 55 Jane Abrahams (widow) candy store --------------------------------------------------------------- CANDY PULL OED has 1887 for "candy pull." 31 December 1872, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 1: They call them "taffy jerks" and "candy yanks" in Georgia, instead of "candy pulls." (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) A Kentucky Candy Pulling, by C. D. D.: pp. 46-50 p. 46 2 matches of 'candy pull*' p. 47 1 match of 'candy pull*' p. 48 2 matches of 'candy pull*' p. 49 1 match of 'candy pull*' in: Title: The New-England magazine. / Volume 7, Issue 1 Publisher: J. T. and E. Buckingham Publication Date: July 1834 City: Boston Pages: 526 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABS8100-0007&byte=117737072 From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 21 06:55:49 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:55:49 -0400 Subject: FW: arnetted Message-ID: Trouble with the following is that Arnett was surely not speaking the truth in the interview in question. He was offering an opinion, and to the press outlet of the Iraqi regime, in a time of war, and his opinion turned out to be wrong anyway. So what does being arnetted mean? I suspect it means little or nothing, and that it is a usage with a very brief span of life. OED need not bother. It later came out, after his firing by NBC, that this is not the first time that Peter Arnett had made himself more newsworthy than his reporting of the news -- apparently he had manufactured a "quote" during his coverage of the Vietnam War, to give his story more punch. He seems not to be a man of high principles. Frank Abate -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of mark worden Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:23 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: arnetted another nonce eponym (add to dixiechicked) Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for better information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to a new verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, he will be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC network for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki http://www.ahram-eg.com/weekly/2003/634/op10.htm From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 13:43:29 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:43:29 EDT Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/20/2003 11:07:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > I don't think these are the "silverware" we all know and love (forks, > spoons, knives), but take a look. > > > (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES database) > March 19, 1761 > The Pennsylvania Gazette > > silver, brass and Pinchbeck buckles, with sundry other <> , > and a > variety of cutlary, Definitely not knives, forks, and spoons. Table knives would be included under "cutlary". > plat and paper hats, with a variety of other goods, suitable > for the country "paper hats" this early is a surprise---is it an antedating? > > July 5, 1770 > The Pennsylvania Gazette > > ON Friday, the 13th of July, will be SOLD by public VENDUE, at the City > Vendue Store, in Front street, all the JEWELLERY, and <> , > belonging to GEORGE DOWIG, Jeweller and Goldsmith; consisting of garnet > earrings, set in gold, chrystal ditto, set in ditto, cluster ditto, set in > silver, gold stone rings of all kinds, definitely luxury items made of silver, not table utensils gold locket buttons, plain gold ditto, gold lockets, best chrystal buttons, set in > silver, a variety of plate and buckles, likewise a silversmithflatting mill, > all his jewellery and silversmithtools, a Negroe man, by trade a > silversmith, Slavery was not abolished in Pennsylvania until 1780. It is worth noting where the slave in question is placed in the list. How much did this slave sell for? At least a hundred pounds, quite possibly two hundred. > > > September 23, 1772 > The Pennsylvania Gazette > > RICHARD HUMPHREYS, GOLDSMITH, HAVING taken the house in which PHILIP SYNG > lately dwelt, hereby informs his friends and the public, that he now > carries on the GOLDSMITH Business, in all its branches, at the aforesaid > place, a few doors below the Coffeehouse, where he has for sale, a NEAT and > GENERAL ASSORTMENT of GOLD and <> . again, definitely luxury items made of silver, not table utensils > > (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) > Saturday Evening Post (1821-1830), Philadelphia; Oct 20, 1827; Vol. VOL. > VI, Iss. 0 > EPITOME OF NEWS.; pg. 0_002, 1 pgs > ("...breaking into a dwelling house and stealing silver ware.") > probably not table utensils, or not just table utensils, as a burglar would make off with all the valuables he could find - Jim Landau From Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM Mon Apr 21 13:58:21 2003 From: Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM (LeMay, William) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:58:21 -0400 Subject: is, is Message-ID: This brings to mind a local (Northeastern Iowa) form of the "is is" that I hear quite often: "Is what you need to do is..." From JMB at STRADLEY.COM Mon Apr 21 15:02:30 2003 From: JMB at STRADLEY.COM (Baker, John) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:02:30 -0400 Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Message-ID: Here's an antedating of the OED, at least, for silverware in the sense of cutlery. This is from an 1851 will, quoted in full in a legal opinion: >>Know all men by these presents that I John Mitcheltree does hereby convey, sell and grant in trust to Samuel Scott Ewing in trust for my dearly and well beloved wife Jane Mitcheltree, all that house and lot or lots, now occupied by Dr. John Irwin, for her to have and hold for ever; also, one house and lot and small store house known as the Murdock property, and now occupied by him and family, and the store by Wheeler as a tin shop; also, one out lot about one and a one quarter acres of land, also her ten shares in the Mahoning County Bank; and thirty shares more on which there is now paid in on the same fifty per cent, together with whatever may be paid in at the time of my death; also, my best horse and buggy and harness, also all carpets, china and queensware, and silver ware, such as spoons, &c., &c., two beds with plenty of bedding, four tables and two setties and two bureaus, together with a house and lot now owned by a saddler, formerly owned by Armstrong Irwin, for her the said Jane, my well beloved wife, to have and to hold for ever. Given under my hand and seal this 2d July 1851.<< Clingan v. Mitcheltree, 31 Pa. 25, 7 Casey 25 (Pa. 1856). John Baker -----Original Message----- From: Bapopik at AOL.COM [mailto:Bapopik at AOL.COM] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 11:06 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Again, OED has 1860 and Merriam-Webster 1848 for "silverware." I don't think these are the "silverware" we all know and love (forks, spoons, knives), but take a look. From funex79 at CHARTER.NET Mon Apr 21 16:26:46 2003 From: funex79 at CHARTER.NET (Jerome Foster) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:26:46 -0700 Subject: The West Message-ID: Listmembers: I am trying to find out when the earliest use of "The West" to differentiate Europe and America from "The East" or the "Orient." Any help would be greatly appreciated Jerome Foster Los Osos, CA From ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM Mon Apr 21 23:44:13 2003 From: ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM (Barnhart) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:44:13 -0400 Subject: The West Message-ID: The standard place to start on this is OED. First quote appears to be c1205. David Barnhart barnhart at highlands.com From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 00:56:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:56:53 -0400 Subject: Balloon Bread (1962); Beef Club (1916) Message-ID: BALLOON BREAD DARE has "balloon bread" from 1965. PROSECUTION IS DUE ON 'BALLOON BREAD'; Special to The New York Times.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 12, 1962; pg. 19, 1 pgs ("The loaves are a pound in weight but are baked in standard one-and-a-half pound pans.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BEEF CLUB DARE has "beef club" from 1941. CHATS WITH VISITORS IN WASHINGTON; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 11, 1918; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Boys in Texas are forming baby beef clubs, and the future generation will, if the work keeps up, be better informed on profitable methods of cattle growing than were their fathers.") Million Boys and Girls in Farm Clubs; War's Impetus to the Movement Is Expected to Result in Permanent Benefit to Agriculture and Betterment of Rural Life; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 30, 1917; pg. SM6, 1 pgs ("Our great national crop needs stimulation, and organized club work provides this. Pig clubs, baby beef clubs, dairy calf clubs, corn, milo maize, cotton, peanut, wheat, raotation, potato, poultry clubs, canning, sewing, bread-making clubs...") Illinois Central; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1916; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("The company also distributed 69 prize bulls to boys' and girls' beef clubs.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 01:55:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:55:20 -0400 Subject: Box Party (1877); Box Social (1891); Box Supper (1899) Message-ID: BOX PARTY DARE has 1939 for "box party." 18 February 1877, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: "I am one of a box party," is the latest dead head dodge. When the number of the box is required by the door man the D. H. slopes. GOSSIP ABOUT; PERSONAL ITEMS INTERESTING TO EVERY READER OF "THE POST." The Marriages of the Past Week and the Near Future -- Parties, Sociables, Receptions and Other Social Features Narrated In Entertaining; The Washington Post (1877, Washington, D.C.; Dec 7, 1884; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Last night the Senator gave a box party at Albaugh's Opera house...") Other Society Gossip.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1883; pg. 2, 1 pgs NATIONAL CAPITAL TOPICS; A SENSATIONAL SERMON ON THANKSGIVING DAY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 1, 1882; pg. 2, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- BOX SOCIAL DARE has 1928 for "box social." I couldn't find it in the 1890 hit here. The BROOKLYN EAGLE gives you a little arrow, but not ProQuest. 24 June 1891, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Greenpoint division No. 99, sons of temperance, had a box social Monday evening in the Kerosmos building, Manhattan avenue and Milton street. LAUREL.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 16, 1893; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("A box social will be given at Fleater's Hall...") Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 19, 1890; pg. 7, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- BOX SUPPER DARE has 1934 for "box supper." TOPICS OF THE TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 31, 1899; pg. 20, 1 pgs ("One of the young ladies who attended the box supper at the Woodmen Hall acted very unladylike in refusing to eat with the young gentleman who purchased her box, by leaving the room just after her box was sold.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 02:09:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:09:01 -0400 Subject: Ice Cream Party(1842); Ice Cream Festival(1858); Ice Cream Supper(1868) Message-ID: ICE CREAM PARTY DARE has 1904 for "ice cream party." 3 January 1842, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 4 ad: ICE CREAM--Parties, Fairs and Families supplied with Ice Cream in any quantity, by giving notice the day previous, at HANDLEY'S Ice Cream Saloon, 14 High st. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM FESTIVAL DARE has 1893 for "ice cream festival." 15 June 1858, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 5: The Ladies of the First Place Methodist Episcopal Church will give a Strawberry and Ice Cream Festival... --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM SUPPER DARE has 1892 for "ice cream supper." Seventy-five Persons Poisoned at a Church Supper.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 28, 1868; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("The ice cream supper in coonection with the concept given by the ladies of the Episcopal church, at the Institute, resulted rather seriously to a mjaority of those present." The BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, on July 31, carried the same item from Somerville, Tenn., here dated July 23--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 02:33:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:33:49 -0400 Subject: Popcorn Popper (1902); Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: POPCORN POPPER "Popcorn popper" is not in OED. I don't have Andrew Smith's "popcorn" book handy with me here at NYU reference, but here's the earliest on Proquest. Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 27, 1912; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 26 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 12, 1902; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("Nelson's 10c Articles...Popcorn Poppers.") --------------------------------------------------------------- POPOVER PAN Not in OED, but what is? SWEET POTATO SALAD.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 14, 1919; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 66 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 5, 1918; pg. 24, 1 pgs THE WOMEN OF ARMENIA; The Wives, Mothers, and Daughters of an Afflicted Nation.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 18, 1895; pg. 21, 1 pgs ("Another dessert suggestion is to bake cottage pudding in gem or popover pans, thus giving to each person an individual pudding." This untitled article is on the same page, following the "Women of Armenia" story. The "popover pan" is not from Armenia--ed.) From jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET Tue Apr 22 02:41:04 2003 From: jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET (Jim McKee) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:41:04 -0500 Subject: Doohickey, etc. Message-ID: Hi everyone - growing up in the 50's in NE Central Mississippi, I heard "doohickey" used often to equate roughly to "gizmo" and to refer to unknown devices, e.g. "What do you call that little doohickey on the top of the pressure cooker?" (Incidentally, "petcock" sounds even sillier than "doohickey" to me!). I also heard "doomaflotchy" used either as "doohickey" was or to refer to an unknown person, e.g. "You know, Mrs. Doomaflotchy that works at the courthouse!" I think I heard "doohickey" nationally, probably on the radio. Does anyone know if these terms have an origin in some national language? Or, they could have become popular as "bromide" did from Burgess or one of the other widely popular humorists. Jim From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 03:20:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:20:25 -0400 Subject: Chinese Cleaver(1925, 1962); Kitchen Cleaver(1900); Pie Crimper(1889); Champagne glass(1844) Message-ID: CHINESE CLEAVER Not in OED. Chinatown!; A shopper's guide, Tiger Balm and all; By Marion Clark; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jul 16, 1972; pg. PO16, 4 pgs Beginner's List Of Kitchen Tools; Beginner's List Of Kitchen Tools; By Joe and Jeanne Anderson; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jun 8, 1972; pg. K1, 2 pgs The Choy Doh': That Frightening Chinese Cleaver; By Joe and Jeanne Anderson; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 18, 1972; pg. D3, 1 pgs A Chinese Dinner Isn't as Difficult as You Think; Egg Drop Soup; By Bill Ives; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Feb 12, 1970; pg. C13, 1 pgs Craving Some Carp or Cloud Ears?; By Nancy L. Ross Washington Post Staff Writer; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 28, 1968; pg. C3, 1 pgs The Kitchen Bookshelf; The Kitchen Bookshelf; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 2, 1962; pg. 490, 2 pgs New Cookbook Covers Chopsticks to Chop Suey; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 27, 1962; pg. 57, 1 pgs ("'The Pleasures of Chinese Cooking' is an admirably diverse volume, dealing with such topics as how to use a Chinese cleaver, how to order in a Chinese restaurant and how to grow bean sprouts in the home kitchen.") FEDERAL DRIVE ON TO END WAR OF TONGS; Forty-two of 68 Chinese Seized Here in All-Night Round-Up Face Deportation.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 13, 1925; pg. 29, 1 pgs ("...a rifle and several Chinese cleavers occasionally used by tong criminals.") --------------------------------------------------------------- KITCHEN CLEAVER The "meat cleaver" is sometimes called a "kitchen cleaver." There is no OED entry. Display Ad 38 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 3, 1907; pg. X8, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 28, 1907; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 22, 1904; pg. 3, 1 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1900; pg. 16, 1 pgs ("Kitchen Cleavers...42c" in an ad for O'Neill's.) --------------------------------------------------------------- PIE CRIMPER Not in OED, of course. "Pie crimper" was one of many items in the "kitchen cleaver" ad above. There are about 165 Google hits. Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1900; pg. 16, 1 pgs Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1900; pg. 11, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 6, 1891; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 9, 1889; pg. 8, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1889; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("In our Racket Department you can also buy for 9 cents good Whisk Brooms, Steak Pounders, Bone Egg Spoons, Pie Crimpers,..." at Frankle & Co.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CHAMPAGNE GLASS OED has 1851 for "champagne glass." This below is "a glass filled with champagne." I'm still looking for "champagne tulip glass" or "champagne flute glass." 22 February 1844, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: On this occasion the account of her death was read from the French newspapers, in the midst of lively exultation, and the clang of champagne glasses. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 03:52:41 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:52:41 -0400 Subject: Amish Preaching Soup (1950) Message-ID: DARE has 1965 for "Amish bean soup," or "Amish preaching soup." It's one of the more peculiar of American food names. On the Tour; By Paul Herron; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 22, 1952; pg. 31, 1 pgs Other 7 -- No Title; By Paul Herron; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 24, 1951; pg. B8, 1 pgs ("How do you make Shrimp Wiggle Esche Puddle? What makes popovers pop? Why do they call it Amish Preaching Soup? Questions like these have been tossed about by guests at Marjorie Hendricks' Water Gate Inn so often that she has finally prepared a cookbook describing the intricacies of the Inn's Pennsylvania Dutch Cooking. Author Flora Orr explains the mysterious titles and lists the ingredients.") (WORDLCAT database) Libraries with Item: "Hobby horse cookery : / f..." NY NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR NYP CO UNIV OF DENVER, PENROSE LIBR DVP DC HISTORICAL SOC OF WASHINGTON, DC HSWDI LA LOUISIANA STATE UNIV LUU NE UNIV OF NEBRASKA AT LINCOLN LDL Title: Hobby horse cookery : favorite recipes of Marjory Hendricks' Water Gate Inn, Washington, D.C. / Author(s): Orr, Flora G. ; Hendricks, Marjory. Corp Author(s): Water Gate Inn. Publication: [Washington, D.C. : s.n.], Year: 1950 Description: 1 v. (unpaged) : ill. ; 22 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery, American. Named Corp: Water Gate Inn. Note(s): Cover-title. Class Descriptors: LC: TX715 Responsibility: compiled by Flora G. Orr. Document Type: Book Entry: 19820923 Update: 19950309 Accession No: OCLC: 8800731 Database: WorldCat Title: New hobby horse cookery : favorite recipes of Water Gate Inn, Washington, D.C Author: Orr, Flora Gracia TN VANDERBILT UNIV MED CTR TJM Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: New hobby horse cookery : favorite recipes of Water Gate Inn, Washington, D.C. / Author(s): Orr, Flora Gracia. Publication: Washington, D.C. : F. Orr, Year: 1953 Description: 48 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery, American -- Pennsylvania. Menus. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 641.59748 Responsibility: [Flora G. Orr]. Document Type: Book Entry: 19810119 Update: 19950219 Accession No: OCLC: 7069004 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 04:47:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:47:13 -0400 Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) Message-ID: SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES; Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 19, 1917; pg. 8, 1 pgs: _SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES._ _Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old._ Sratoga Springs, N. Y., May 18.--Catherine A. Wieks, colored, the oldest woman in Saratoga County, died today. She would have been 103 years old next December. She was the inventor of Saratoga potato chips and was a sister of the late George Crum, who was famous 50 years ago as a roadhouse proprietor at Saratoga Lake. --------------------------------------------------------------- Once again, having an additional online source comes through. The NEW YORK TIMES didn't mention her. Mary O'Donnell, of Saratoga, has kindly photocopied some information on "Saratoga chips." Three people are given credit. One is "Aunt Katie" Weeks, or is it Wieks? Another is Cary B. Moon, the proprietor of Moon's Lakehouse, a famous nineteenth century restaurant at Saratoga Lake. Another is George Crum, the chef. This book has a nice discussion: CHRONICLES OF SARATOGA by Evelyn Barret Britten Saratoga: published privately by author 1959 Pg. 176: Crum was a native of Malta, the son of Abraham Speck, a jockey, who had come from Kentucky in the early days of Saratoga Springs and married an Indian girl. The inventor of potato chips was christened Crum by none other than the original Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, founder of the Vanderbilt fortunes in America, who, visiting Moon's with a party of guests, had had to wait a long time to be served, and finally had requested an attendant to ask "Crum," "How long before we shall eat?" It was the commodore's confusion of ideas--"Crumb" and "speck"--that gave the famed Indian guide the name he carried through the rest of his life. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 06:18:35 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:18:35 -0400 Subject: Pastry Tips(1970); Pickle Castor(1854); Pizza Wheel(1971); Pastry Wheel(1907); Ice Cream Scoop(1885,1892) Message-ID: More cookery. NYU's trial subscription to the WASHINGTON POST expires May 4th, so I have to do this now or it'll cost a trip to the Library of Congress. --------------------------------------------------------------- PASTRY TIPS Not in OED. Illustrated in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. Display Ad 15 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 24, 1975; pg. A7, 1 pgs Display Ad 646 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 20, 1974; pg. 506, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Oct 17, 1972; pg. A5, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 12, 1972; pg. A6, 1 pgs Display Ad 323 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 28, 1971; pg. 193, 1 pgs Display Ad 62 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 7, 1970; pg. C5, 1 pgs ("Pastry bags, 45c to $1...Pastry tips, 25c to 60c.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PICKLE CASTOR Not in OED? There's a ton of ProQuest hits, and I'll check the American Periodical Series soon. Classified Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 15, 1873; pg. 6, 1 pgs Classified Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 13, 1873; pg. 2, 1 pgs Classified Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Sep 26, 1854; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("...large assortment of silver plate ware, castors, liquors, frames, pickle castors, salts, cake baskets, coasters, tea sets, waiters, &c. ...") --------------------------------------------------------------- PIZZA WHEEL "Pizza wheel" is another name for "pizza cutter," previously posted. Neither is in OED. Display Ad 67 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 24, 1972; pg. D12, 1 pgs Display Ad 47 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Feb 14, 1972; pg. D9, 1 pgs A Greek Festival; SPANAKOPITA; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 16, 1971; pg. D3, 1 pgs ("Use a fluted pastry wheel or knife, scissors or pizza wheel and cut dough into strips 4 by 6 inches.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PASTRY WHEEL Not in OED. News of Food; An International Flavor May Be Given To Christmas Breakfast With Pastries ; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 19, 1944; pg. 24, 1 pgs ANTIQUE SHOWS AND AUCTIONS; By WALTER RENDELL STOREY; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 30, 1943; pg. X14, 1 pgs Winning Version Rivals Antoine's Famed Dish; Second Award Goes to Another District Woman for Oysters Baked With Dumplings; Others Suggest Them in Cream or Planked; By Martha Ellyn, The Post Food Editor.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 29, 1939; pg. 20, 1 pgs DAILY COOK BOOK; Banbury Buns.; By JANE EDDINGTON.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 2, 1923; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 26 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1907; pg. X8, 1 pgs ("Pastry Wheels 8c...Potato Ball Scoops 15c to 43c" at Abraham & Straus.) --------------------------------------------------------------- POTATO BALL SCOOP Not in OED, although it does have "potato balls." Display Ad 17 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 23, 1904; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 18, 1903; pg. 3, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1902; pg. 17, 1 pgs ("French Potato Ball Scoops...15c" in a large ad for Abraham & Straus.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM SCOOP I had posted "ice cream scooper" before. "Ice cream scoop" is not in the OED. Just dreadful on food. Display Ad 15 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 19, 1904; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Wash basins, sink strainers, ice cream scoops, saucepans, pudding pans, ice cream spoons, muffin pans, egg poachers, flour sifters, tea canisters,..." are all sold for 9 cents each at the Pais Royal on G Street.) HER POINT OF VIEW.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 31, 1892; pg. 13, 1 pgs ("An inexpensive utensil is the new ice cream scoop. It costs but 40 cents, and is worth several times the price to the woman deputized to ladle out the ice cream at a fair or fete. These scoops out the cream out in perfect forms, giving Tom the same amount as Dick or Harry. Anyboy who has tried to preserve even a degree of impartiality in her haste behind the scenes at a church fair, for example, will recognize the value of this invention.") CITY AND SUBURBAN NEWS; NEW-YORK.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1885; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("...a silver ice cream scoop, marked 'Robbins;'" is in a list of items stolen.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE SCOOP Not in OED. I guess the OED people never stayed at a hotel and got ice? Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 19, 1905; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 17 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1905; pg. 11, 1 pgs Display Ad 21 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 2, 1905; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 25, 1904; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("Ice Picks, Ice Shavers, Ice Tongs, Ice Hatchets, Ice Scoops, Ice Shovels, Ice Cream Saucers, Ice Cream Spoons, Candy Jars, &c." are sold at Dulin & Martin Co. on G Street.) --------------------------------------------------------------- SHRIMP DEVEINER Not in OED. As you can probably tell from one of these cites, Williams-Sonoma sells it. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 19, 1995; pg. A8, 1 pgs Two Williams-Sonoma Stores to Open; By ELAINE LOUIE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 17, 1987; pg. C5, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 30, 1986; pg. B10, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 26, 1986; pg. C6, 1 pgs Classified Ad 139 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 11, 1962; pg. 200, 1 pgs Classified Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 12, 1961; pg. F27, 1 pgs Classified Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 18, 1958; pg. F22, 1 pgs Food News: Shrimp a Good Buy Now; New York Is Largest Market for Shellfish -- Vein Harmless ; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 6, 1954; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("The deveining is done by cutting along the outside curvature and lifting out the black sand vein which, although harmless, is unattractive to many. Some find a gadget called a shrimp deveiner helpful in doing this chore.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 06:41:21 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:41:21 -0400 Subject: Pastry Jagger(1902) & Pie Jagger(1948) Message-ID: "Brown Sugar." --Mick Jagger, when asked about his cooking ingredients. OED has three definitions for "jagger," but not one fits the cooking usage. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS cites "jagging wheel" and "pie jagger." I noticed "pastry jagger" in a large Abraham and Straus ad in 1902, and it'll be my last post before doing parking tickets. (PIE JAGGER) Where to Find Small Washers; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 4, 1948; pg. B7, 1 pgs ("Use a pie jagger or a cookie cutter.") (JAGGING WHEELS) WHALING RELICS SOUGHT; Hobbyists Gathering Things Associated With Yankee Hunts for Moby Dick; By WALDON FAWCETT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 5, 1937; pg. 134, 1 pgs ("A private collector's loot of jagging wheels or pie-crimpers,...") (PASTRY JAGGERS) Display Ad 16 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 26, 1902; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1902; pg. 17, 1 pgs ("Pastry Jaggers...10c" at Abraham and Straus.) From jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET Tue Apr 22 14:55:48 2003 From: jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET (Jim McKee) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:55:48 -0500 Subject: Should spell it "do-hickey"? Message-ID: I mentioned to a friend that I had posted here about "doohickey", and she suddenly remembered her mother, back in the 50's, referring to certain unmentionables as "do-which-ies". I had speculated to my friend that I was reminded also of a practice that came along about 30 years ago of exclaiming "Do what?!" when "What did you say?" was really meant, the exclamation being made in an exaggerated, comical way to convey astonishment. I heard "Do what?!" on TV a lot back then. It's also interesting that both by age-group and perhaps even general speech custom, we seem to have very few "unmentionables" left. From self at TOWSE.COM Tue Apr 22 16:17:30 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:17:30 -0700 Subject: Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > --------------------------------------------------------------- > POPOVER PAN > > Not in OED, but what is? > > SWEET POTATO SALAD.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; > Oct 14, 1919; pg. 10, 1 pgs > > Display Ad 66 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; > May 5, 1918; pg. 24, 1 pgs > > THE WOMEN OF ARMENIA; The Wives, Mothers, and Daughters of an Afflicted Nation.; > New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 18, 1895; pg. 21, 1 pgs > ("Another dessert suggestion is to bake cottage pudding in gem or popover pans, > thus giving to each person an individual pudding." This untitled article is on the > same page, following the "Women of Armenia" story. The "popover pan" is not from > Armenia--ed.) Is "gem pan"? Is "cupcake pan"? frying pan, cake pan, pie pan, peter pan ... At what point, maybe Jesse or someone else can help me with this, does something like "popover pan" make the OED? When is "gem pan" simply a pan for making gems and when does "gem pan" become something that qualifies for a separate dictionary entry? Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Wed Apr 23 00:01:19 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:01:19 -0400 Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) Message-ID: According to http://www.brooksidemuseum.org/photo/2002/september2002.html it's Wicks. And the origin of the chip is rather in dispute. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 12:47 AM Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) > SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES; Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 19, 1917; pg. 8, 1 pgs: > > _SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES._ > _Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old._ > Sratoga Springs, N. Y., May 18.--Catherine A. Wieks, colored, the oldest woman in Saratoga County, died today. She would have been 103 years old next December. She was the inventor of Saratoga potato chips and was a sister of the late George Crum, who was famous 50 years ago as a roadhouse proprietor at Saratoga Lake. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Once again, having an additional online source comes through. The NEW YORK TIMES didn't mention her. > Mary O'Donnell, of Saratoga, has kindly photocopied some information on "Saratoga chips." > Three people are given credit. One is "Aunt Katie" Weeks, or is it Wieks? Another is Cary B. Moon, the proprietor of Moon's Lakehouse, a famous nineteenth century restaurant at Saratoga Lake. Another is George Crum, the chef. This book has a nice discussion: > > CHRONICLES OF SARATOGA > by Evelyn Barret Britten > Saratoga: published privately by author > 1959 > > Pg. 176: Crum was a native of Malta, the son of Abraham Speck, a jockey, who had come from Kentucky in the early days of Saratoga Springs and married an Indian girl. The inventor of potato chips was christened Crum by none other than the original Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, founder of the Vanderbilt fortunes in America, who, visiting Moon's with a party of guests, had had to wait a long time to be served, and finally had requested an attendant to ask "Crum," "How long before we shall eat?" > It was the commodore's confusion of ideas--"Crumb" and "speck"--that gave the famed Indian guide the name he carried through the rest of his life. > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 01:44:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:44:22 EDT Subject: Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: A "butter knife" is a great deal different that a "steak knife." A "champagne glass" is not a "shotglass" or a "pilsner glass." Here are entries in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS for the items mentioned: _cake pan_ Variously shaped and sized containers for baking cake batter. _cupcake pan_ (NO ENTRY--ed.) _frying pan_ A round pan with a single long handle and low, sloping sides and used to pan-fry foods; available with a nonstick surface and in 8-, 10- and 12-in. diameters; also known as a skillet. (ILLUSTRATION) ("Frying pan" is in OED and is very, very old--ed.) _gem pan_ A pan designed to make miniature muffins. _peter pan_ (VERY FUNNY--ed.) _pie pan; pie plate_ A round, 1- to 2-in.-deep glass or metal pan with sloped sides used for baking pies. _popover pan_ A heavy baking pan used for making popovers and Yorkshire pudding; similar to a muffin pan but with deeper, tapered indentions that are spaced farther apart. (ILLUSTRATION) There are several things I'd think about for an OED entry: 1. IS IT ALREADY IN AN EXISTING DICTIONARY?--I'm using food dictionaries. 2. ARE THERE PLENTY OF CITATIONS FOR IT?--I'm giving the earliest citations for these, but there are many, many more. 3. IS IT DISTINCTIVE?--A champagne glass is distinctive. A steak knife is distinctive. A cake pan is--well, what kind of cake are we talking about? But I might want to enter it anyway because there are a gazillion hits. 4. WHAT TYPE OF ENTRY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?--"Cake pan" would be under "cake." A citation or two would be used, and that's it. OED has always done entries like this, although all of it is badly dated, as I've shown. 5. WILL ANYONE CANCEL A SUBSCRIPTION IF WE, GOD FORBID, INCLUDE "PLETT PAN"?--No. From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 23 02:54:34 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:54:34 -0400 Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) In-Reply-To: <000701c3092b$7a238de0$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: At 8:01 PM -0400 4/22/03, Sam Clements wrote: >According to http://www.brooksidemuseum.org/photo/2002/september2002.html >it's Wicks. And the origin of the chip is rather in dispute. Very nice. I like the way the museum site both carefully provides the legends, with all the details, while also debunking them. I notice the Saratoga County Historical Society/Brookside Museum is in Ballston Spa, just down the block from the wonderful Bottle Museum, which has excellent exemplars of bottles from different stages of the evolution of human culture. For anyone who feels about bottles the way we feel about words, it's gets a Michelin-green-guide three stars ("vaut le voyage"). Larry From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Wed Apr 23 16:11:03 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:11:03 -0700 Subject: terrorsymp Message-ID: "Terrorsymp" has surfaced http://www.stanleymeisler.com/news-commentary/rhetoricandwar.html expect terrsymp soon From self at TOWSE.COM Wed Apr 23 17:00:27 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:00:27 -0700 Subject: Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > > A "butter knife" is a great deal different that a "steak knife." > A "champagne glass" is not a "shotglass" or a "pilsner glass." > Here are entries in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS for > the items mentioned: > > _cake pan_ Variously shaped and sized containers for baking cake batter. > > _cupcake pan_ (NO ENTRY--ed.) > > _frying pan_ A round pan with a single long handle and low, sloping sides > and used to pan-fry foods; available with a nonstick surface and in 8-, 10- > and 12-in. diameters; also known as a skillet. (ILLUSTRATION) > ("Frying pan" is in OED and is very, very old--ed.) > > _gem pan_ A pan designed to make miniature muffins. > > _peter pan_ (VERY FUNNY--ed.) > > _pie pan; pie plate_ A round, 1- to 2-in.-deep glass or metal pan with > sloped sides used for baking pies. > > _popover pan_ A heavy baking pan used for making popovers and Yorkshire > pudding; similar to a muffin pan but with deeper, tapered indentions that are > spaced farther apart. (ILLUSTRATION) > > There are several things I'd think about for an OED entry: > > 1. IS IT ALREADY IN AN EXISTING DICTIONARY?--I'm using food dictionaries. > > 2. ARE THERE PLENTY OF CITATIONS FOR IT?--I'm giving the earliest citations > for these, but there are many, many more. > > 3. IS IT DISTINCTIVE?--A champagne glass is distinctive. A steak knife is > distinctive. A cake pan is--well, what kind of cake are we talking about? > But I might want to enter it anyway because there are a gazillion hits. > > 4. WHAT TYPE OF ENTRY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?--"Cake pan" would be under > "cake." A citation or two would be used, and that's it. OED has always done > entries like this, although all of it is badly dated, as I've shown. > Other types of pans: bundt pan, angel food cake pan, springform pan, tube pan, jelly roll pan, muffin pan, mini muffin pan, pizza pan, angelette pan, baguette pan, bread pan, loaf pan, checkerboard cake pan (really! I have one), cheesecake pan, cornbread pan, doughnut pan, tart pan, pudding pan, pullman pan, shortcake pan, yorkshire pudding pan, panetonne pan, madeleine pan, roast pan, savarin pan, broil pan ... ... and if you had a sister like mine, you'd know there are bunny cake pans and ball cake pans and even ninja turtle cake pans. > 5. WILL ANYONE CANCEL A SUBSCRIPTION IF WE, GOD FORBID, INCLUDE "PLETT > PAN"?--No. If you include anything at all, a plett pan entry is a must. Don't forget aebleskiver pan. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 19:45:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:45:30 -0400 Subject: Holy Guacamole (1985) Message-ID: "Holy guacamole!" a respondent said to me yesterday, after learning how much he owed in parking tickets. "Holy guacamole" hasn't been in AMERICAN SPEECH (?), it's not in the RHHDAS, and it's not in the CASSELL DICTIONARY OF SLANG. A lot of holy stuff is in these--holy cow, holy cats, holy Moses, holy horseshit. Why can't guacamole be so blessed? This site seems to indicate that it started in Gotham City: http://www.tvacres.com/catch_h.htm "Holy Guacamole, Batman!" - One of the silly exclamations spoken by the Boy Wonder (Burt Ward), a Gotham City crimefighter on the fantasy adventure BATMAN/ABC/1966-68. The following is a list of a few more of his silly syllables: Holy Armadillos!, Holy Chutzpah!, Holy Contributing to the Delinquency of Minors!, Holy Dental Hygiene!, Holy Fate Worse Than Death!, Holy Guadalcanal!, Holy Hieroglyphics!, Holy Hole-In-A-Doughnut!, Holy Human Surfboards!, Holy Hydraulics!, Holy Hypnotism!, Holy Interplanetary Yardstick!, Holy Kilowatts!, Holy Luther Burbank!, Holy Mashed Potatoes!, Holy Molars!, Holy Priceless Collection of Etruscan Snoods!, Holy Purple Cannibals!, Holy Ravioli!, Holy Rising Hemlines!, Holy Trolls and Goblins!, and Holy Uncanny Photographic Mental Processes! Holy Moley!, aren't you glad that's over? While at that site, check out: http://www.tvacres.com/languages_phrases.htm The full text NEW YORK TIMES, WASHINGTON POST, and WALL STREET JOURNAL turned up zero hits. (Strange, because the regular Proquest has a 1988 hit. Maybe it has the WSJ up to 1985?) WorldCat also has zero hits, so it wasn't the title of anything. The databases below have "Holy Guacamole" from the 1980s. Do I not have 1960s and 1970s hits simply because my databases are so poor for that period? Will the online LOS ANGELES TIMES have a 1960s "Holy Guacamole"? Stay tuned! Same time! Same channel! (DOW JONES newspapers database) SPORTS BOATING ROGER LIVINGSTON IS CHALLENGING SAILING'S BIG LEAGUES NEIL RABINOWITZ 01/03/1985 The Seattle Times FOURTH F5 (...) Three years ago Roger Livingston bought his own advertising firm from Chiat Day, calling it Livingston and Co. He approaches his sailing with the same hungry aggressiveness as one sees in the advertising world. Shortly after his escapade in Port Madison Bay he read an article on a 30-foot speedster, an Olson 30, bought one and named it Holy Guacamole. His very first race was the Olson 30 National Championships. LIFESTYLE / FOOD WHAT'S COOKING HOLY GUACAMOLE ELAINE BENDER 04/24/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey b01 The California Avocado Commission reports a bumper crop of the green pear-shaped fruit for the third year in a row, with a retail sales projection of $440 million. Extensive acreage expansion in the mid-1970's is responsible for the hefty harvest. OPINION LETTERS HOLY GUACAMOLE! 10/01/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey a18 Editor, The Record: Your excellent coverage of the devastating Mexico City earthquake was complete except in one respect: You didn't get an explanation from the Rev. Jerry Falwell on why it occurred. One of your recent editorials mentioned that Rev. Jerry Falwell suggested that AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) might be God's just punishment upon homosexuals for their sinful ways (hemophiliacs, Haitians, and second-graders weren't covered in his elucidation of divine wrath). The Mexico City disaster gives Jerry another chance to deliver a jeremiad. Why not follow it up? I'm betting he'll blame things on (1) the native habits of tanking up on too much tequila and (2) overindulging use of the pagan Aztec-descended expletive "Holy guacamole!" JACK SHAFER Ho-Ho-Kus FOOD Holy guacamole! // Alas, it seems California wasn't birthplace of avocado salad Elaine Corn:McClatchy News Service 04/29/1987 The Orange County Register EVENING 22 It began innocently enough. I wanted to discover the origin of guacamole. I had heard that someone invented the avocado-based salad (sometimes called a dip) not in Mexico, not in Spain, not even in Texas -- but in California. The news came with a sense of glowing chauvinism. California, which has more than its share of noteworthy foods, was being named as the source of yet another delectable dish. It seemed logical. California has been the site of avocado growing since the first tree was planted in Azusa, just east of Los Angeles, in 1848. (PROQUEST database) search. 31. USA snapshots: Holy guacamole; Galifianakis, Nick; USA Today, McLean, Va.; Apr 16, 1993; pg. D1 32. Holy guacamole, Super Bowl prospects are dipping; Falls, Joe; The Detroit News and Detroit Free Press, Detroit, Mich.; Jan 3, 1993; pg. E3 33. TRB from Washington: Holy Guacamole!; Kinsley, Michael; The New Republic, Washington; Apr 1, 1991; Vol. 204, Iss. 13; pg. 6, 1 pgs 34. Holy Guacamole: Growers Battle Bandits, Fallacy of Fat; Kinnander, Kimberly; Orange County Business Journal, Newport Beach; Jan 22, 1990; Vol. 12, Iss. 35; 1; pg. 1 35. VIGILANTE BAT;The Serio-Comic Hero, Caped & On the Case; [FINAL Edition]; Henry Allen; The Washington Post (pre-1997 Fulltext), Washington, D.C.; Jun 18, 1989; pg. g.01 36. Holy guacamole!/You can go from grocery to garden to fruit salad; [2 STAR Edition]; WILLIAM D. ADAMS; Houston Chronicle (pre-1997 Fulltext), Houston, Tex.; Feb 18, 1989; pg. 2 37. Notebook: Holy Guacamole; Anonymous; The New Republic, Washington; Aug 1, 1988; Vol. 199, Iss. 5; pg. 14, 5 pgs 38. Small Business (A Special Report): Essay --- Life in the Hot-Sauce Lane: Our Man Strives To Be A Big Enchilada; By Ronald G. Shafer; Wall Street Journal, New York, N.Y.; Jun 10, 1988; Eastern edition; pg. 1 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 20:20:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:20:38 -0400 Subject: Hawaii Five-O (1985); Aloha Berry (1997); Triple Berry (1986) Message-ID: HAWAII FIVE-O This American dish doesn't pre-date the tv show, of course. It's with lobster, shrimp, pork, chicken, and beef as the big five ingredients, or whatever the restaurant chooses as its five. (DOW JONES newspapers database) LIFESTYLE / PREVIEWS DINING OUT AT ORIENTAL LUAU By Mark Howat, Restaurant Reviewer 02/22/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey 011 (...) The television series "Hawaii Five-0" evidently inspired every Polynesian restaurant to come up with a dish meant to capitalize on and to have the dramatic appeal of the TV show. And so we have (at $10.95) Hawaiian 4-0, a curious name for an entree that has five ingredients: slices of duck, roast pork, shrimp, chicken, and crab meat. Again, the pork and chicken in this menu dinner were tender and juicy. The duck was dry and overcooked, the shrimp and crab meat tough and overcooked. The Oriental vegetables that accompanied this dish were mostly onions, bamboo shoots, water chestnuts, and ordinary mushrooms, not the dried black Chinese mushrooms that are so flavorful and delicious (and expensive). The Hawaiian 2-0 ($11.50) offers an excellent filet mignon and, again, the tough, overcooked lobster pieces. Dining here seems to be a matter of luck. Some meats are carefully cooked and others are allowed to overcook. This is unfortunate in such otherwise happy surroundings. The restaurant draws a large crowd, even on week nights. Often there will be tables of young people, celebrating a birthday or otherwise enjoying themselves as a group. Dynasty has good Chinese choices for informed diner Jeremy Iggers; Staff Writer 01/17/1986 Star-Tribune Newspaper of the Twin Cities Mpls.-St. Paul METRO 01C (...) I suppose anyone who orders a dish called Hawaii Five-O ($11.95) deserves whatever he gets, but I couldn't resist the temptation to try a dish from the Polynesian menu. I expected pineapple and little paper umbrellas. What I got was a sautee of lobster, scallops, beef and pork with assorted vegetables in a brown gravy. If the lobster and scallops had been tastier, the dish might have been satisfying, but both were flavorless. LIFESTYLE / PREVIEWS AT NEW CHINA CHALET IN CLOSTER By Mark Howat, Record Restaurant Critic 01/25/1991 The Record, Northern New Jersey 020 (...) In a dish like Hawaii Five-O, at $14.95 the most expensive in the restaurant, you would think that you would easily know lobster from chicken, chicken from pork, pork from beef, and so on. But you won't. You will pass food back and forth asking: Is this pork or beef? Is this chicken or pork? You will be able to tell, of course, by the colors: Chicken is white, beef is brown. But the flavors that distinguish these meats is missing. Perhaps they are all cooked in the same sauce, so that they take on the same flavors. But whatever the reason, too much tastes the same. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ALOHA BERRY I saw "Aloha Berry" as a smoothie flavor at my local Cafe Metro (www.cafemetrony.com). This seems to rip off Baskin-Robbins: FEATURE/BASKIN-ROBBINS ADDS BR SMOOTHIE TO EXPANDING LINE OF POPULAR IN-STORE BEVERAGES 03/27/1997 Business Wire GLENDALE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE FEATURES)--March 27, 1997-- Baskin-Robbins Becomes Nation's Largest Seller of Smoothie (...) The BR Smoothie is available in six tropical flavor combinations: Tropical Tango, a refreshing blend of strawberries and bananas; Calypso Berry, an amazing combination of strawberries and blueberries; Bora Berry Bora, a tropical blend of pineapple and passion fruit with raspberries and blueberries; Aloha Berry Banana, a brilliant mixture of pineapple and passion fruit with strawberries, blueberries and bananas; Copa Banana, a smooth combination of orange and bananas; and Sunset Orange, an exhilarating ensemble of orange, raspberries and bananas. Additionally, customers have the option to custom order their own BR Smoothie by selecting one of four fruits: strawberries, bananas, blueberries or raspberries, mixed with their choice of pineapple-passion fruit, strawberry or orange, and blended altogether with non-fat vanilla frozen yogurt. The Baskin-Robbins beverage line also includes the ever-popular Cappuccino Blast, the first coffee beverage to combine ice cream or non-fat, frozen yogurt with cappuccino; Chocolate Blast, a cool blend of chocolate ice cream, rich chocolate syrup, milk and ice blended together; Paradise Blast, a cool refreshing combination of ice cream, strawberry or pina colada mix and ice blended together; and Frozen Tornado, mixing soft serve ice cream and a favorite topping (available only at stores that sell soft serve). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ TRIPLE BERRY "Triple Berry" is also a Cafe Metro smoothie flavor. There are over 40,000 Google hits for popular "triple berry," but the databases seem to have it only to 1986(?): (DOW JONES newspapers) TASTE Ann Burckhardt Most new products are palate pleasers Ann Burckhardt; Staff Writer 03/19/1986 Star-Tribune Newspaper of the Twin Cities Mpls.-St. Paul METRO 02T Before the pile of empty convenience food packages on my shelf topples over, I'll report reactions to their contents. Tofulicious is Minneapolis' answer to the popularity of tofu-based frozen desserts such as Tofutti. Last fall Eastern Foods Corp., 3235 E. Hennepin Av., introduced five flavors of this low-calorie alternative to ice cream. We tasted all five here in the newsroom. Triple Berry Delight and Dutch Chocolate Almond tied for best-liked - their containers emptied almost immediately. Vanilla Almond Supreme placed second and Pina Colada Royale, third. A little of the Creamy Peanut Butter was left after the feast, but it, too, had its partisans. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 22:33:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:33:09 -0400 Subject: Lemon Reamer (1906); Salt & Pepper Shaker (1889); Granny Fork; Spoon Rest; Margarita Glass Message-ID: Crate & Barrel on East 59th Street is only a few blocks away from my home, and just down the block from Williams-Sonoma. See www.crateandbarrel.com. Together with cooking.com and williams-sonoma.com and the DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS, I don't think I've missed much, but please point out any other cookery terms. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LEMON REAMER OED actually has this, from 1926. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 13, 1925; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 4, 1924; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 18, 1906; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("GLASS LEMON REAMERS, 4c and 8c" is sold at H. C. F. Koch in New yOrk City.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SALT AND PEPPER SHAKER OED has "pepper shaker" from the 1895 Montgomery Ward Catalogue. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1889; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Bargains in Salt and Pepper Shakers" is in an ad for Frankle & Company.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GRANNY FORK Not in OED. Display Ad 19 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 26, 1979; pg. A22, 1 pgs Display Ad 230 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 18, 1969; pg. G15, 1 pgs Display Ad 160 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 15, 1969; pg. F6, 1 pgs ("...granny forks..." is listed under Ekco Gadgets.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SPOON REST Not in OED. Display Ad 769 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1950; pg. 127, 1 pgs ("SPOON REST. Is such a pretty little ceramic dish. And it will kepp your table top and stove top clean. For it was made to hold your messy cooking spoon.") Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 8, 1913; pg. 4, 1 pgs Housewife's Daily Economy Calendar; Five Dollars' Worth of Convenience.; by FRANCES MARSHALL; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 3, 1913; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Spoon rest, of aluminum, they clamp on side of saucepan, in which spoon may be laid when not in use.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MARGARITA GLASS Not in revised OED. Display Ad 182 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 24, 1992; pg. LI3, 1 pgs 50 Things Every Fashionable Man; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 15, 1992; pg. SMA54, 1 pgs Display Ad 56 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 2, 1990; pg. C24, 1 pgs Hungry Hour; Bellying Up to the Food Instead of the Bar; By Mary Luders and Maria Mudd; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 21, 1986; pg. WK6, 2 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 26, 1985; pg. A5, 1 pgs ("Choose chip-n-dip bowl, salad bowl, or set of 4 margarita glasses" at Macy's.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FONDUE FORK Not in OED. Letting the Guests Cook Dinner; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 10, 1959; pg. SM56, 2 pgs Food News: Store Seeks To Aid Cook; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 24, 1959; pg. 24, 1 pgs Try 3eer or Cheese Fondue 1/2/ For Cozy but .Elegant Dish; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Oct 11, 1957; pg. C2, 1 pgs Food News: Bresse; From the French Region Now Come The Chickens in Tinned Quenelles ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 7, 1956; pg. 22, 1 pgs ("The other oddity was a three-tined fork for stirring fondue, that Swiss dish for which cheese is melted and 'diluted" with white wine and kirsch.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LOBSTER FORK Not in OED. Virtual Ban Put on Civilian Goods of Steel; WPB Order Forbids Use of Metal in Most Household Utensils; By Alfred Friendly Post Staff Writer; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 5, 1942; pg. 1, 2 pgs List of Products Barred From Use Of Iron and Steel by WPB Order; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 5, 1942; pg. 3, 1 pgs Attractive Implements Demanded by Lobster; Eight Old Silver Forks, Obviously Hand Made, With Pearl Handles, Are Displayed by Store Here; Brass Fireplace Fixtures Shown.; By Katherine Smith.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 18, 1934; pg. S8, 1 pgs ("In one little ship are eight old silver lobster forks, with pearl handles.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 02:31:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:31:45 -0400 Subject: Basket Dinner/Lunch (1854); Dinner-on-the-Ground (1858) Message-ID: BASKET LUNCH DARE has 1892 for "basket dinner/lunch." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: Thompson, J. J. of Brookville, Mississippi. Title: A history of the feud between the Hill and Evans parties of Garrard County, Ky. The most exciting tragedy ever enacted on the bloody grounds of Kentucky. Publication date: [1854] Page 104 - 1 term matching "basket dinner*" ("When the boys in the field got their basket dinner, they very hospitably asked the Hills over to dine with them.") (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL) Kentucky: Berea College Commencement: pp. 275-276 p. 276 1 match of 'basket dinner*' in: Title: The American missionary. / Volume 32, Issue 9 Publisher: American Missionary Association. Publication Date: Sept 1878 City: New York Pages: 426 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABK5794-0032&byte=343464 ("Under the shade of these trees, during the intermission, two or three hundred groups spread and consumed their basket-dinners.") (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The National Police Gazette (1845-1906), New York; Sep 29, 1883; Vol. VOLUME XLII., Iss. 0 Article 1 -- No Title; pg. 2, 1 pgs (THEY are talking about putting bar room cars on certain Western railroads. Why not? The worst whiskey that could be sold on them wouldn't be half as deadly as the train boys' gum drops or the basket lunches the station restaurants fairly give away--for twice what they are worth.") Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Apr 16, 1881; Vol. Vol. 60., Iss. 0 SANCTUE CHAT; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("The new basket lunch system on the Boston and Albany Railroad grows in favor. Orders are taken by an agent on each train, and telegraphed forward to the station where the baskets are delivered. There are six bills of fare, and the uniform price is forty cents. One bill, for example, comprises two turkey sandwitches (sic), two slices of buttered bread, two boiled eggs, and some pickles. The baskets have heat compartments, and are furnished with plates, knives, forks, and napkins. Extras in the way of fruit, drink, etc., can be ordered at reasonable prices.") --------------------------------------------------------------- DINNER-ON-THE-GROUND DARE has 1909 and later for "dinner on the ground." There's a note to connect it with "basket dinner." Supposedly "dinner on the ground" involves church singing, but not in these examples. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Aug 1, 1908; Vol. VOL. LXXI., Iss. 0 Mountain View Gun Club.; Forest and Stream; J. J. FARRELL, Sec'y.; pg. 191, 2 pgs (Pg. 192: "Another feature that the laedies will have is that they will serve an old-fashioned dinner on the grounds to the shooters immediately after the programme is finished on the first day.") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Jun 8, 1901; Vol. VOL. LVI, Iss. 0 DRIVERS AND TWISTERS.; Forest and Stream; pg. 457, 1 pgs ("Lunch will be served on the grounds.") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Apr 28, 1900; Vol. VOL. LIV., Iss. 0 Article 11 -- No Title; Forest and Stream; pg. 340, 1 pgs "Even No. 7 on the programme called for a 'good dinner on the grounds,' but when the dinner hour arrived there was not even a cracker on the grounds for the hungry shooters. While some of the members of the club went home for their 'good dinner on the grounds,' the visitors were compelled to employ a young man to go to the city, two miles away, and get their dinners and bring them to the grounds, and in consequence of this the visiting shooters did not get anything to eat until 2 o'clock in the afternoon.") (LITERATURE ONLINE) Trollope, Anthony, 1815-1882 [Author Record] Phineas Finn (1869) 1571Kb Phineas Finn, the Irish Member. By Anthony Trollope. With Twenty Illustrations by J. E. Millais ... In Two Volumes 1569Kb Found 1 hit: VOL. II 788Kb CHAPTER LXIII. SHOWING HOW THE DUKE STOOD HIS GROUND. 27Kb Phineas did not come till late,---till seven, when the banquet was over. I think he was right in this, as the banqueting in tents loses in comfort almost more than it gains in romance. A small picnic may be very well, and the distance previously travelled may give to a dinner on the ground the seeming excuse of necessity. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL) Living age ... / Volume 100, Issue 1292: pp. 577-640 p. 599 1 match of 'dinner on the ground*' in: Title: The Living age ... / Volume 100, Issue 1292 Publisher: The Living age co. inc. etc. Publication Date: March 6, 1869 City: New York etc. Pages: 834 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABR0102-0100&byte=226186557 ("A small picnic may be very well, and the distance previously travelled may give to a dinner on the ground the seeming excuse of necessity.") (NEW YORK TIMES) Cricket Notes.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 15, 1873; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("On that date the members will hold their usual dinner on the ground, after which a short game will be played.") LETTERS FROM WATERING PLACES.; Central Moriches, L. I.--The Way to Get There--The Wreck of the Steamer Franklin--Fishing, &c.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 23, 1858; pg. 2, 1 pgs (MONK'S celebrated brass band discourses charming music in the morning at the Congress Spring, after dinner on the grounds comprising the great hollow-square or arboricultural garden of the United States, and in the evening in the ball-room of the hotel.") From rayrocky7 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 24 02:49:01 2003 From: rayrocky7 at HOTMAIL.COM (Ray Villegas) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:49:01 -0700 Subject: German Words 1939-45 Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 03:59:03 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:59:03 -0400 Subject: Malungeons; In God We Trust (1800); (To Know) Beans (1839) Message-ID: MALUNGEONS Here are four articles in the American Periodical Series: Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; May 1891; Vol. VOL. VII., Iss. 0 1. GOSSIP OF AUTHORS AND WRITERS; pg. 16, 12 pgs. The Arena (1889-1909), Boston; May 1891, Iss. 0 2. THE MALUNGEON TREE AND ITS FOUR BRANCHES.; BY WILLIAM ALLEN DROMGOOLE.; pg. 745, 7 pgs The Arena (1889-1909), Boston; Mar 1891, Iss. 0 3. THE MALUNGEONS.; BY WILL ALLEN DROMGOOLE.; pg. 470, 11 pgs The Arena (1889-1909), Boston; Jan 1, 1890; Vol. III, Iss. 0 4. Other 1 -- No Title; --------------------------------------------------------------- IN GOD WE TRUST http://www.msnbc.com/news/903240.asp?0cv=KB20 The above is Newsweek's Gersh Kuntzman's article about Georgia adding "In God We Trust" to its state flag. I have one post in the old archives and one post in the new archives. I'd found the phrase as far back as 1748. The "Star-Spangled Banner" (1814) popularized the idea with its "In God Is Our Trust." Below is an 1800 "In God We Trust." (LITERATURE ONLINE database) Thompson, Benjamin, 1776?-1816 [Author Record] Dagobert (1800) 171Kb DAGOBERT, KING OF THE FRANKS. A Tragedy, IN FIVE ACTS. 170Kb Found 1 hit Main text 168Kb ACT IV. 43Kb Scene 43Kb ...land.---What a sight!--- [Stage direction] --- In God we trust.--- Now come.... (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Aug 12, 1865, Iss. 0 Article 15 -- No Title; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("TRUST.--A merchant of Portland displayed in either window of his store on Wednesday last, this motto, 'In God we trust--terms, Cash.'" --------------------------------------------------------------- (TO KNOW) BEANS DARE has 1876 for "beans, to know." (LITERATURE ONLINE) Kirkland, Caroline M. (Caroline Matilda), 1801-1864 [Author Record] A New Home--Who'll Follow? (1839) 578Kb A New Home--Who'll Follow? 572Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 562Kb CHAPTER XVI. 15Kb ...fever-agur as well as I know beans! It a'n't nothin' else!"... Conway, H. J., 1800-1860 [Author Record] Hiram Hireout; Or, Followed By Fortune (1868?) 102Kb HIRAM HIREOUT; OR, FOLLOWED BY FORTUNE. A Farce, in One Act. TO WHICH ARE ADDED A description of the Costume---Cast of the Characters---Entrances and Exits--- Relative Positions of the Performers on the Stage, and the whole of the Stage Business. AS PERFORMED AT THE PRINCIPAL ENGLISH AND AMERICAN THEATERS. 101Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 98Kb ACT I. 98Kb SCENE II. 17Kb ...marks it down, "Yankees don't know beans"---and this is the way... Conway, H. J., 1800-1860 [Author Record] Our Jemimy: Or, Connecticut Courtship (1856?) 137Kb OUR JEMIMY: OR, CONNECTICUT COURTSHIP. A FARCE, IN ONE ACT. WRITTEN EXPRESSLY FOR MRS. BARNEY WILLIAMS. TO WHICH ARE ADDED, A Description of the Costume---Cast of the Characters---Entrances and Exists--- Relative Positions of the Performers on the Stage, and the whole of the Stage Business. AS PERFORMED AT THE BROADWAY THEATRE, N. Y. 135Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 134Kb ACT I. 134Kb Scene I. 27Kb ...Powder, say our Jemimy don't know beans. [Standardized name] ... Delano, Alonzo, 1806-1874 [Author Record] A Live Woman In The Mines; Or, Pike County Ahead! (1857) 187Kb A LIVE WOMAN IN THE MINES; OR, PIKE COUNTY AHEAD! A Local Play in two Acts. BY "OLD BLOCK." TO WHICH ARE ADDED A description of the Costume---Cast of the Characters---Entrances and Exits--- Relative Positions of the Performers on the Stage, and the whole of the Stage Business. 185Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 181Kb ACT II. 74Kb SCENE II. 24Kb ...yard---are you sure that you know beans? [Standardized name] ... Trowbridge, J. T. (John Townsend), 1827-1916 [Author Record] Neighbor Jackwood (1857) 440Kb Neighbor Jackwood. A Domestic Drama, IN FIVE ACTS. Produced at the Boston Museum, under the direction of Mr. W. H. Smith, March 16th, 1857. Printed from the acting copy; the stage business, &c., correctly marked by J. H. Ring, Prompter. 438Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 431Kb ACT II. 102Kb SCENE II. 21Kb ...sharp, I allow. Guess I know beans, when the bag's ontied.... (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Knickerbocker or New York Monthly Magazine (1833-1862), New York; Jan 1844; Vol. 23, Iss. 1 The country; Anonymous; pg. 70, 4 pgs Pg. 70: If you cannot distinguish timothy from clover, and beets from carrots; if, agriculturally speaking, you don't (Pg. 61--ed.) "know beans;" he will annihilate you with his rural wisdom. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 07:10:02 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 03:10:02 -0400 Subject: Dish Cloth(1827); Dish Mop(1860); Dish Pan(1852); Dish Towel(1850) Message-ID: A lot of good dish. --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH CLOTH OED has 1828 for "dish cloth." Saturday Evening Post (1821-1830), Philadelphia; Dec 8, 1827; Vol. VOL. VI, Iss. 0 THE DISCARDED LOVER.; pg. 0_001, 1 pgs ("...she would pin the dish cloth to his tail, set tubs of dirty water in his way, and cause him to tumble into them,...") --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH MOP OED has "dish mop" from the 1897 SEARS CATALOGUE. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Dall, Caroline Wells Healey, 1822-1912. Title: "Woman's right to labor," or, Low wages and hard work : in three lectures, delivered in Boston, November, 1859 / by Caroline H. Dall. Publication date: 1860. Page 141 - 2 terms matching "dish mop*" ("I looked through Boston in vain, the other day, to find a common dish-mop large enough to serve my purpose.") August, 1866 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LXXII Page 145 The chancing had, of course, various results; but I may here mention that Mrs. Daffodil drew three hoods, two Afghans, a hearth-rug, a smoking-cap, a baby's cap, a canary bird, a << dish-mop>> , a coal-skuttle, a poodle dog, two white mice, a fernery, a globe of goldfish, three sets of mock jewelry, a Webster's dictionary, and the fire safe. --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH PAN OED has 1872 for "dish pan." 9 April 1852, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: 1 Dish pan. May, 1854 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XLVIII Page 478 2 Tin Bake-Pans.1 Fry Pan. 1 Tin Dripping Pan.1 Cullender. 1 Tin Saucepan. 1 Coffee Boiler. 1 Small Tin Kettle.1 Tea Pot. 1 Pepper and Flour Dredge.1 Grater. 3 Tin Pie Plates. 1 Tin Dipper. 1 Tin Wash-Basin.1 Egg-Whip. 1 << Dish Pan1>> Basting-Spoon. 3 Table and Tea-Spoons, Iron.1 Skimmer. 1 Chop-Knife and Bowl --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH TOWEL OED has 1869 for "dish towel." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Beecher, Catharine E. (Catharine Esther), 1800-1878. Title: Miss Beecher's domestic receipt-book: designed as a supplement to her Treatise on domestic economy. Publication date: 1850. Page 248 - 1 term matching "dish towel*" ("Be careful to have clean dish towels, and never use them for other pruposes.") Page 251 - 1 term matching "dish towel*" March, 1852 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XLIV Page 204 Books, table linen, sweetmeat and pickle jars had been put in most unsystematized array on the same shelves; hunted articles "turned up" in the least expected places; pocket handkerchiefs and << dish towels>> , hastily thrust away, were discovered crammed into pillow cases; and wearing apparel emerged from wooden water pails. --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH WASHING MACHINE OED has "dish washing machine" in the 1890s. Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Oct 29, 1870; Vol. Vol. XXIII., Iss. 0 Improved Dish-Washing Machine.; pg. 271, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Dec 2, 1865; Vol. Vol. XIII., Iss. 0 Article 11 -- No Title; pg. 360, 4 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Mar 19, 1864; Vol. Vol. X., Iss. 0 Patent Dish-washing Machine.; pg. 192, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 9, 1850; Vol. VOLUME 5., Iss. 0 Article 7 -- No Title; pg. 164, 1 pgs ("Machinery for Washing Dishes.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 08:01:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:01:12 -0400 Subject: Stemware (1892); Champagne Glass (1837) Message-ID: STEMWARE Merriam-Webster has 1926 for "stemware." OED has 1929? (STEMWARE) Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 23, 1896; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 19, 1895; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 17 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 25, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 14 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 7, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 7, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs 1Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 16, 1892; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("Together with Special Bargains in SALAD, FRUIT & BERRY BOWLS, STEMWARE, DECANTERS, &c." at Arnheim's.) (STEM WARE) Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 14, 1897; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 15, 1896; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 16, 1894; pg. 8, 1 pgs Display Ad 14 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 7, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 22, 1893; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 10 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 27, 1892; pg. 9, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- CHAMPAGNE GLASS The American Periodical Series has "champagne glass" a little earlier than I'd posted, but again, I don't know what it looked like at that time. OED has 1851. Atkinson's Casket (1831-1839), Philadelphia; Jul 1837, Iss. 0 PARIS IN 1837.; pg. 291, 6 pgs Atkinson's Casket (1831-1839), Philadelphia; Feb 1837, Iss. 0 THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH.; pg. 57, 4 pgs (Pg. 57: "Four champagne glasses were also on the table.") From AAllan at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 15:12:23 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:12:23 EDT Subject: "Digital Promise": NHA asks for help Message-ID: The National Humanities Alliance is a consortium of societies and organizations in the humanities, including ADS, that encourages support for the National Endowment for the Humanities. It's located in Washington, of course. This request has just come our way. If you're interested, please reply directly to: jhammer at cni.org. - Allan Metcalf << 24 April 2003 MEMORANDUM TO:    NHA Members FR:    John Hammer RE:    Advice and suggestions needed for Digital Promise report As you may know, in 2001, NHA endorsed the Digital Promise campaign aimed at using some of the money gained from the sale of broadcast frequencies to a fund for research and programs in uses of technology in education.  A legislative success could produce literally billions of dollars of support for a broad range of activities. Somewhat to my surprise, Congress appropriated $750,000 to the Federation of American Scientists to develop a research and development roadmap for implementation of the Digital Promise program. I will be meeting soon with Larry Grossman and Anne Murphy (The tireless duo pursuing the DP in Congress) in connection with planning a report to Congress that will "1) identify priorities and opportunities related to the development, use, and widespread deployment of advanced information and telecommunications technologies; 2) identify innovative strategies for making these technologies available to American homes, schools, universities, museums, libraries, training centers, and other places of learning; and 3) identify possible barriers to the development, use, and widespread deployment of these innovations." In coming weeks, NHA will be developing a short white paper-like report that addresses the three questions above.  It will be very helpful if NHA members can provide contacts (and information, if available) with individual members who may be able to provide suggestions on any of the three questions above.  Please do not limit to your own members if you have knowledge of others who could contribute ideas.  Despite contrary predictions, humanities scholars and others working in the humanities have taken considerable advantage of new technologies.  Inclusion of humanities priorities, opportunities, innovative strategies and so forth in the DP report may lead to considerable new resources for our community. Please e-mail [jhammer at cni.org], fax (202/872-0884) or telephone me with information, suggestions, questions on this issue.  There is some urgency since, I believe, the final report will be due in September (and NHA's by the end of May).  Thanks in advance for your help on this issue>> From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 22:32:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:32:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Erin McKean at NYPL on Wednesday Message-ID: OT: ERIN MCKEAN AT NYPL ON WEDNESDAY From today's NEW YORK SUN, 24 April 2003, pg. 18, col. 6: CENSORSHIP IN SCHOOLS _Diane Ravitch_ joins Columbia's incoming provost, _Alan Brinkley_, and _Erin McKean_, senior editor for American dictionaries at Oxford University Press, for a panel examining the sanitization of school tests and textbooks. _Marlene Springer_, president of CUNY College of Staten Island, moderates. Wednesday, April 30, 6:30 p.m., South Court auditorium, Humanities and Social Sciences Library, New York Public Library, Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street, 212-930-0855, free, registration required. --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: THE ONION THE ONION (www.theonion.com), "America's finest news source," is also great on food. On the front page of the 24-30 April 2003 issue is "Nabisco Introduces X-treme Salt-Assault Saltines." The cover story that really had me laughing (or crying?) is "New Fox Reality Show To Determine Ruler Of Iraq." I'm sure all of the contestants on "Appointed by America" are qualified, but personally, I'd vote for the gorgeous blonde to rule. --------------------------------------------------------------- OT MISC: NO STRIKE--My doormen aren't going out on strike; it was settled yesterday. I can still go to the library. BOWERY BOYS ASSOCIATION--Getting David Shulman's book on Steve Brodie published by anyone, or even listened to for two minutes, is going to be a large enough task, but he's formed a Bowery Boys Association and we're meeting on May 1st. He says he wants to appoint officers, hold regular meetings, have a newsletter, and I've already funded a "Steve Brodie" poetry contest--uh boy. "NO RESPONSE" CITY--This again seems to be "no response" month. I wrote to the American Antiquarian Society about its digitization projects--not really much of a stumper--and no one responds for weeks... I wrote to Alexander Street Press, who digitized North American Women/Civil War Letters and Diaries, about the availability of two of its new databases. This is its business. Again, no one responds... The New-York Historical Society, which is starting a new publication where "the Big Apple" should have a home, hasn't even mailed me a style sheet... The Yankees turned 100 on Tuesday, there was a story about it on Wednesday, and I sent a letter to the editor of the NEW YORK TIMES on the origin of "Yankees" last night. This one's only been a few hours, but give it time. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 23:50:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:50:07 -0400 Subject: Dinnerware (1843); Serveware (1954); Housewares (1898) Message-ID: So beware Say a prayer. --George M. Cohan, "Over There" (Did I do "beware"?) --------------------------------------------------------------- DINNERWARE OED has one 1970 hit for "dinnerware." 25 April 1843, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: ...tea, china and dinner ware, knives and forks,... Word Mark ROYALON ON MELAMINE DINNERWARE IS LIKE STERLING ON SILVER Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 020. US 002. G & S: PLASTIC DINNERWARE. FIRST USE: 19610300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19610300 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72159286 Filing Date December 17, 1962 Registration Number 0777177 Registration Date September 22, 1964 Owner (REGISTRANT) ROYALON, INC. CORPORATION OHIO SEBRING, OHIO Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. Live/Dead Indicator DEAD --------------------------------------------------------------- SERVEWARE OED has no hit at all for "serveware." Google has 114,000 hits! There are food and computer definitions. Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Dec 3, 1954; pg. 11, 1 pgs ("Exciting New Bake and Serve Ware" at the Food-a-Rama.) Word Mark SERVEWARE Goods and Services IC 009. US 038. G & S: computer software to convert personal computers and to link multiple users on a local area network to plot server. FIRST USE: 19900518. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900518 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74079289 Filing Date July 16, 1990 Published for Opposition October 15, 1991 Registration Number 1671011 Registration Date January 7, 1992 Owner (REGISTRANT) Xerox Corporation CORPORATION NEW YORK 800 Long Ridge Road P.O. Box 1600 Stamford CONNECTICUT 06904 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20020227. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20020227 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE --------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSEWARES OED has 1921 for "house wares." (HOUSEWARE) Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 31, 1902; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 64 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 3, 1898; pg. 21, 1 pgs ("Crockery and Housewares" are in an ad for A. Kann, Sons & Co.) Display Ad 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 5, 1884; pg. 3, 1 pgs (Didn't see it here--ed.) THE; SOFT-SHELL RATIFICATION MEETING. MEETINGS WITHIN AND WITHOUT THE HALL. Speeches of John Cochrane, Lorenzo B. Shepard, John B. Steele, David T. Wright, Capt. Ryndors, Alexander Ming, &c. &c. NEW SPEAKERS IN OLD; New York Daily Times, New York, N.Y.; Nov 3, 1854; pg. 1, 1 pgs (I don't think this applies--ed.) (HOUSE WARE) Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 19, 1899; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("House Wares" sold at Goldenberg's. Many other hits follow, but don't seem to apply. This is the earliest store ad--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 00:22:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:22:45 -0400 Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) Message-ID: ERSATZ OED and Merriam-Webster have 1875 for "ersatz." I found "ersatz" in only the first of the below, but welcome anyone to ruin his or her eyes on the other six items. NEWS NOTES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 18, 1871; pg. 1, 1 pgs ("The real army and _ersatz_ reserve--iz., those below the regulation stature, who, however, are in general quite fit to take the field and are taller than the French--has not been called out.") FRANCE AND PURSSIA.; British Diplomacy in the France-Prussian Imbroglio.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 15, 1870; pg. 5, 1 pgs Classified Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1867; pg. 6, 2 pgs Article 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 16, 1867; pg. 5, 1 pgs THIRTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS.; SECOND SESSION. SENATE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 24, 1865; pg. 5, 1 pgs FROM UTAH.; A Bold Enterprise--The Deseret Express and Road Company--Mormonism Speculative--The Bench Laying Aside the Ermine-Miscellaneous.; Special Correspondence of the N.Y. Daily Times.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Apr 18, 1856; pg. 2, 1 pgs LATEST INTELLIGENCE; XXXIId CONGRESS...First Session.. SENATE. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. ; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Dec 18, 1851; pg. 2, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- ERSATZ COFFEE We discussed "ersatz kaffee" here once before. I didn't find "kaffee," but here's some "coffee." Reich Gets New Ersatz Coffee; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1940; pg. 11, 1 pgs INSIDE GERMANY: THE MARK OF WAR; INSIDE GERMANY; By OTTO D. TOLISCHUS, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, European; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 17, 1939; pg. 102, 4 pgs SPAIN PAINFULLY RISES FROM RUINS; The People Work and Play Once More, but Militarism and Distress Are Evident; By E. NEVILLE HART; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 13, 1939; pg. E5, 1 pgs BOOKS OF THE TIMES; By JOHN CHAMBERLAIN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 16, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs FOUND FOOD ENOUGH IN BELGIAN CITIES; American Observer Was Also Surprised at Relative Plenty in Alsace. DUE TO GERMANS' RETREAT Armistice Prevented Their Ravaging These Sources Which Had Supplied Their Armies.; By WALTER DURANTY. Copyright, 1918, by The New York Times Company Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 3, 1918; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("...bread, butter and sugar gratis, and a vile ersatz coffee, with genuine homemade cordial, 1 mark.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 01:17:18 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:17:18 -0400 Subject: Chicken-Fried Steak(1935); Country Gravy(1915); Stack Cakes Message-ID: CHICKEN FRIED STEAK Once again, the WASHINGTON POST is a little earlier than the NEW YORK TIMES item, below, that I'd posted on this: Kansas Convicts Object To Such Meals as These; By The Associated Press.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 19, 1935; pg. 3, 1 pgs These 3 Rules Assure Flaky Crust for Pie; Keep Them Tacked Up in a Conspicuous Place in the Kitchen.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 23, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs ("This steak, no doubt, is what many call a chicken-fried steak and is a piece of top-round, which is prepared in the following manner: Have the steak cut one-half inch thick. Pound it well on both sides with a wooden potato masher or mallet. Rub the steak on both sides with flour which has been mixed with a sprinkling of salt and pepper. Sear it quickly on both sides in a little grease in a frying pan. Then cover and place in a moderately low oven (325 degrees F.) for about 20 to 30 minutes or until tender. This type of steak is excellent when served with mushroom or tomato sauce. The pounding tenders the naturally tough fibers of the meat.") --------------------------------------------------------------- COUNTRY GRAVY Once again, the WASHINGTON POST is just ahead of the NEW YORK TIMES. FINE FARE ON THE FARM.; The Soil Tiller Better Off Than the City Man in These Days.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 7, 1918; pg. 44, 1 pgs A Great Joint Boon; HAM AND EGGS AS AN ALL-INVITING AND DELECTABLE EDIBLE LEAD THE LIST.; [Tacoma/Ledger.]; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 19, 1915; pg. MS1, 1 pgs ("Even a steak, or a pork tenderloin with country gravy, or a roast young duckling with banana fritters frescoed with rum was out of the question.") --------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSPARENT PIE The next lecture of the Culinary Historians of New York, on May 15th, 7 p.m. at the Park Avenue Methodist Church, by Matt and Ted Lee is titled: "From Shuck Beans to Transparent Pies: Contemporary Cooking in Appalachia." News of Food: Delicacies of the Old South; Derby Day Breakfast Means Mint Julep, Batter Bread and Kentucky Know-How ; By JANE NICKERSONThe New York Times Studio; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 27, 1950; pg. 36, 1 pgs (A recipe for "Transparent Pie" is here, taken from Mrs. Morris Flexner's excellent OUT OF KENTUCKY KITCHENS--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- STACK CAKE Not in OED, but it will be when they get around to "S." More pressing, of course, is DARE, which is at "SK." News of Food; North and South Vie in Kentucky Menus -- Limestone Lettuce Is Distinctive in Salads ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1953; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("_Stack Cake for Picnics_ Another regional dessert is a stack cake, which consists of several layers of cake put together with a thick filling. According to one theory, the stack cake dates back to colonial times when the all-day picnic was an important event and each family contributed to the menu. Because it was difficult to fit individually packed cakes and pies into a hamper, someone conceived the idea of layering together several cakes, and sometimes pies, into one unit. This recipe is from east Kentucky...") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 02:54:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:54:09 -0400 Subject: Flat ware (1746) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster both have 1851 for "flatware." Merriam-Webster gives a pointer to compare this to "hollowware," which it dates to 1682. This should have been a clue that we're AT LEAST a century off here. Gosh, is this stuff bad. That's why I do parking tickets for a living. (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) September 25, 1746 The Pennsylvania Gazette To be Sold by CALEB RANSTED, at his House next Door to the King's Arms in Front street, near the Bank Meeting. GOOD Bohea Tea by the chest or smaller quantity; sugar by the barrel or hundred; coffee by the hundred or dozen; pepper; alspice; cinnamon; Hungary water; almonds; raisins; indigo; stone blue; sweet oil; yellow paint; verdegrease; box irons and heaters; English steel; milk pots; decanters; cruits; salts; tumblers; beet; wine and dram glasses, all by the box or dozen; white stone tea ware; red ditto; frosted ditto; yellow, hollow and << flat ware>> , all by the creit; French white ware, and red ditto, by the dozen; snuff. October 9, 1746 (SAME ITEM, DIFFERENT DATE?--ed.) The Pennsylvania Gazette To be Sold by CALEB RANSTED, at his House next Door to the King's Arms in Front street, near the Bank Meeting, GOOD Bohea Tea by the chest or smaller quantity; sugar by the barrel or hundred; coffee by the hundred or dozen; pepper; alspice; cinnamon; Hungary water; almonds; raisins, indigo, stone blue; sweet oil; yellow paint; verdegrease; box irons and heaters; English steel mill pecks; decanters; cruits; salts; tumblers; beer, wine and dram glasses, all by the box or dozen; white stone tea ware; red ditto; frosted ditto; yellow, hollow and << flat ware>> , all by the crait; French white ware, and red ditto, by the dozen, snuff. November 8, 1750 The Pennsylvania Gazette Imported in the snow Baldwin, from Liverpool, and to be sold by GREENWAY and RUNDLE, At the middle store, on Reese Meredith's Wharff, for ready money, AN assortment of 3 qr. 7 eights, and yard wide linnen and cotton checks, strip'd ditto, Irish ozenbrigs, 3 qr. and 7 eights Irish linnens, cambricks, lawns, sail canvas, No. 2, 3, 4, and 5; yarn and worsted hose, mens castor and felt hats, boys felt and laced castor hats, womens ruff ditto, with bugle bands, glass, delph, stone, dipp'd, flint, and yellow round and << flat ware>> , by the crate, grindstones from 13 to 30 inches diameter, and fine salt. February 18, 1752 The Pennsylvania Gazette Imported in the last vessels from Liverpool, and to be sold by GEORGE OKILL, At his store, in Water street, a little above Arch street, for ready money, or short credit, Scarlet, black, and drab colourbroadcloths, kerseys, plains, half thicks, rugs and blankets, scarlet, black, blue and drab colour shaloons, pink and drab colourtammies, 6 qr. yd. wd. 7 eights and 3 q. cotton and linnen checks, yd. wd. and 7 eights Irish linnen, men and boys felt hats, fine and coarse cambricks, fine colourthread, fine English bed ticks, with bolsters and pillows, men and womens worsted stockings, cotton ginghams, buckrams, linnen handkerchiefs, silk and cotton gowns, cotton ditto, corded demity, white jeans, fine cotton counterpanes, holland tapes, white filleting and inkle, worsted caddis and quality, nuns pretties, pewter, painted snuff boxes, metal and gilt buttons, shoe buckles, buck and seale hafted table knives and forks, clasp knives, penknives, tea tongs and spoons, sleeve buttons, scissars, thimbles, bohea tea in canisters and half chests, English cordage, satinett, sewing and whipping twine, seine ditto, Hungary and lavender water, delph, flint, stone, yellow and << flat ware>> , Chesire cheese, coarse salt, &c. &c. &c. Accessible Archives Search and Information Server Query “flat ware” Press Your "Back" Button to RETURN ITEM #40461 June 11, 1767 The Pennsylvania Gazette Wilmington, June 6, 1767. WADE and HEMPHILL, At their NEW STORE, in Wilmington, New Castle County, take this Opportunity of informing their Customers, and the Country in general, THAT they have laid in a fresh, large, and neat Assortment of dry Goods, suitable for the Season; likewise Rum, Jamaica Spirits, Wine, Melasses, Muscovado, Lump and Loaf Sugars, coarse and fine Salt, Bohea and Green Tea, with a general Assortment of Groceries, Dye Stuffs, and Hard Ware, which they are determined to sell on the same Terms as usual, for Cash or Country Produce. (...) N.B. FRANCIS WADE, in Philadelphia, has to sell as usual, on the lowest Terms, for Cash, a general Assortment of European Goods, suitable for the Season; likewise Bohea and Souchong Tea, by the Chest; Coffee and Pepper, by the Hundred or Dozen; a Parcel of Crates of yellow hollow and << flat Ware>> , and white Stone Ware. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 04:57:50 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:57:50 -0400 Subject: (Maryland) Beaten Biscuit (1854) Message-ID: DARE has 1877 for "beaten biscuit," also called "Maryland beaten biscuit" or "beat biscuit." There's a good map. The Gerritsen Collection has "beat biscuit" in a shrimp recipe in the CAROLINA HOUSEWIFE, but I don't think it applies. (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES database) 1. Lomax, Elizabeth Lindsay?. "Diary of Elizabeth Lindsay Lomax, August, 1854" [Page 26 | Paragraph | Section | Document] persuaded to dance the Virginia Reel-- We had a merry time. Saturday, August 26, 1854 This morning very early, Mrs. Lee arrived with a large box of edibles for our boys to take to West Point. It contained Virginia ham, beaten biscuits, cakes and all manner of good things. What fun the boys will have treating their friends. My darling boy left on the noon cars-- The house seems desolate without him. Wednesday, August 30, 1854 Very warm. 2. Andrews, Eliza Frances. "Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865" [Page 169 | Paragraph | Section | Document] what I could from Metta, but her things don't fit me, and I made a comical appearance. I was too hungry to care, however, after starving since Monday, and such a supper as we had was enough to make one forget all the ills of life. Delicious fresh milk and clabber, sweet yellow butter, with crisp beaten biscuits to go with it, smoking hot waffles, and corn batter cakes brown as a nut and crisped round the edges till they looked as if bordered with lace. It was a feast for hungry souls to remember. After supper we went into the parlor and had music. We tried to sing some of our old rebel songs, but Results Bibliography Lomax, Elizabeth Lindsay, 1796-?, Diary of Elizabeth Lindsay Lomax, August, 1854, in Leaves from an Old Washington Diary. Wood, Lindsay Lomax. New York, NY: Books, Inc., 1943, pp. 256. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [8-25-1854] S293-D009 Andrews, Eliza Frances, 1840-1931, Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865, in The War-Time Journal of a Georgia Girl 1864-1865. King, Spencer B., Jr., ed.. New York, NY: Appleton-Century-Crofts, 1908, pp. 392. [Bibliographic Details] [4-1-1865] S404-D006 (AMERICAN CIVIL WAR LETTERS AND DIARIES database) 1. Pickett, George Edward. "Letter from George Edward Pickett to LaSalle Corbell Pickett, December 14, 1862" [Page 64 | Paragraph | Section | Document] between Richmond and Washington, fortified for us by the hand of the Great Father. I penciled you a note by old Jackerie on the 12th from the foot of the Hills between Hazel Run and the Telegraph Road. In it I sent a hyacinth-- given me by a pretty lady who came out with beaten biscuit-- and some unwritten and written messages from Old Peter and Old Jack, Hood, Ewell, Stuart, and your "brothers," to the "someone" to whom I was writing. My division, nine thousand strong, is in fine shape. It was on the field of battle, as a division, for the first time yesterday, 2. Andrews, Eliza Frances. "Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865" [Page 169 | Paragraph | Section | Document] what I could from Metta, but her things don't fit me, and I made a comical appearance. I was too hungry to care, however, after starving since Monday, and such a supper as we had was enough to make one forget all the ills of life. Delicious fresh milk and clabber, sweet yellow butter, with crisp beaten biscuits to go with it, smoking hot waffles, and corn batter cakes brown as a nut and crisped round the edges till they looked as if bordered with lace. It was a feast for hungry souls to remember. After supper we went into the parlor and had music. We tried to sing some of our old rebel songs, but 3. Morgan, Julia. "Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892" [Page 86 | Paragraph | Section | Document] gooberpeas, and sometimes cake, and all kinds of fruits How they would enjoy it, after eating hard bread and bacon, and sometimes beans and cowpeas for days! When they would start back, I would fill their canteens with buttermilk and sorghum molasses, give them a piece of corned beef and some beaten biscuit, and they would feel rich and happy. Our old friend, Gen. John M. Bright, had a son not quite fourteen years old, who gave him great uneasiness. He was well grown for his age, looked older than he was; and as his brothers were in the army, he was anxious to go too, 4. Morgan, Julia. "Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892" [Page 107 | Paragraph | Section | Document] I told them that I would cook two days in each week for the gangrene hospital. They sent me out a number of hams and sacks of flour, and I got Joe to build up a fire under a large kettle I had, and we would boil a number of the hams at once. While they were cooking, we would make up a large lot of beaten biscuit, and the ladies of the Sand Hills were very kind in making frequent donations of delicacies, and the next morning I would start with the nice things, just as happy as I could be to feel that I could minister to the sufferers. Joe would take the express and I the barouche, often well packed, Results Bibliography Pickett, George Edward, 1825-1875, Letter from George Edward Pickett to LaSalle Corbell Pickett, December 14, 1862, in The Heart of a Soldier : as Revealed in the Intimate Letters of General George Pickett. Pickett, La Salle Corbell, intro.. New York, NY: Seth Moyle, Inc., 1913, pp. 215. S1617-D010 [Bibliographic Details] [12-14-1862] Picket:L1617-10 Andrews, Eliza Frances, 1840-1931, Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865, in The War-Time Journal of a Georgia Girl 1864-1865. King, Spencer B., Jr., ed.. New York, NY: Appleton-Century-Crofts, 1908, pp. 392. S404-D006 [Bibliographic Details] [4-1-1865] Andrew:D404-6 Morgan, Julia, Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892, in How It Was: Four Years Among the Rebels. Nashville, TN: Privately published, 1892, pp. 204. S2002-D013 [Bibliographic Details] [1892] Morgan:M2002-13 Morgan, Julia, Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892, in How It Was: Four Years Among the Rebels. Nashville, TN: Privately published, 1892, pp. 204. S2002-D018 [Bibliographic Details] [1892] Morgan:M2002-18 (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES and MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL databases) September 3, 1864 THE CHRISTIAN RECORDER Philadelphia, Pennsylvania I remember now just what was in the basket: two slices of boiled ham; four << beaten biscuits>> baked brown and permeated with butter, to which they had been treated while smoking hot from the oven; two hard-boiled eggs, with a little paper of salt; a small vial of sugar-house molasses, and a bottle of rather blue milk. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Oct 7, 1875; Vol. Volume 5,, Iss. 0 31. VIRGINIA BARBECUES.; Forest and Stream; BY THADDEUS NORRIS.; pg. 130, 1 pgs ("Young squirrels thus cooked with a slice of ham as a condiment, and the cold buttered beaten biscuits, is a dinner fit for a king;...") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Jul 18, 1896; Vol. VOL. XLVII., Iss. 0 2. CHICAGO AND THE WEST.; Camp "Forest and Stream." ; Forest and Stream; E. HOUGH.; pg. 48, 2 pgs (Pg. 49: "We had bacon and eggs of course, and we had Maryland beaten biscuit and cold butter from our spring cold storage.") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Sep 7, 1895; Vol. VOL XLV., Iss. 0 3. The Sportsman Tourist.; CAMP FOREST AND STREAM.--II. Proper Preliminaries. ; Forest and Stream; E. HOUGH. 909 SECURITY BUILDING, Chicago.; pg. 200, 2 pgs (Pg. 200: "Also we had bacon and eggs and soup and preserved fruit and Maryland beaten biscuit and a great many other things.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 06:56:08 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:56:08 -0400 Subject: Pound Party (1869) Message-ID: The latest DARE has "pound party" from 1877. Last one before parking tickets. There are a lot of BROOKLYN EAGLE hits in 1875. 15 February 1869, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 1: "Pound parties" are the latest. Those invited are expected to contribute one pound at least of something to eat. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Apr 22, 1876; Vol. VoL LV., Iss. 0: 11. "THE SOFTBOY PAPERS,"; LULU SOFTBOY TO EDITOR OF EVENING POST. ; LULU SOFTBOY.; pg. 3, 1 pgs: Then we had "Blue Teas." At Blue Teas you must be intellectual. You must be musical, artistic, or dramatic. (...) Then we had "Pudding Lunches." (...) Well, then we had the "Pound Party" fever, which is still raging. Oh, I forgot to say that at the Pudding Lunches you eat pudding either cold or hot. It is either ice-pudding, or cold plum-pudding with icing, or else it is lemon-pudding, or rice-pudding, in cold frozen slabs with a hot brandy sauce. And you lunch, and you chat, and you eat philopeanas of almonds, and read French _bon-mots_ tied up in _bonbons_. It is all very nice. But at the Pound Party--as by this time I ought to have said--everybody is expected to bring a pound of something, no matter what, and at any hour between eight and twelve at night you may put in an appearance. (If the ADS were to hold a "Pound Party," I'm sure someone would bring reading material from Ezra or Louise Pound--ed.) From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 25 13:40:31 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:40:31 -0400 Subject: Fwd: newzak (how new?) Message-ID: This comes from one of our students. Can anyone track "newzak"? There are 122 google hits (not a huge number), going back to at least 1997, for this obvious spin-off of "muzak". The first Nexis hit (out of 20 I found) was from a 1989 St. Louis Post-Dispatch op-ed column by Clarence Page on the first Bush administration's managing of the news. I'd never heard/seen it before either, or at least never noticed it. Larry --- begin forwarded text Hi Larry, I'm wondering how I missed hearing "newzak" before. Do you know how long this word has been around? It's transparent enough, but here's the context I found it in: ...the media knew that the U.S. government wasn't going to do body counts in Iraq. And with the Bush Administration and the Pentagon aggressively marketing a potential war as a precision-guided, trauma-free exercise in liberation, surely a little rigorous fact-checking was in order. Financing their efforts themselves, the Iraqbodycount.net team has been able to conduct a pretty substantial research project - but imagine the resources a world-class news organization could have devoted to such a project, and the exposure it could have given it. A project like Iraqbodycount.net was tailor-made for today's 24-hour,interactive, constantly updated news cycles - and it represented a rare opportunity for news organizations to go beyond constantly recycled newzak and Pentagon ventriloquism. The fact that no professional media outlet attempted to do what a couple dozen volunteers pulled off was not a triumph of journalistic responsibility, but rather an embarrassing example of journalistic complacency. --- end forwarded text From jester at PANIX.COM Fri Apr 25 13:39:05 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:39:05 -0400 Subject: Fwd: newzak (how new?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 09:40:31AM -0400, Laurence Horn wrote: > This comes from one of our students. Can anyone track "newzak"? > There are 122 google hits (not a huge number), going back to at least > 1997, for this obvious spin-off of "muzak". The first Nexis hit (out > of 20 I found) was from a 1989 St. Louis Post-Dispatch op-ed column > by Clarence Page on the first Bush administration's managing of the > news. I'd never heard/seen it before either, or at least never > noticed it. We have an example from Malcolm Muggeridge in 1968. Jesse Sheidlower OED From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Fri Apr 25 14:25:23 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:25:23 -0400 Subject: Flat ware (1746) In-Reply-To: <1477D92C.1DF2DCDD.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: On 24 Apr 2003, at 22:54, Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > OED and Merriam-Webster both have 1851 for "flatware." Merriam-Webster gives a pointer to compare this to "hollowware," which it dates to 1682. This should have been a clue that we're AT LEAST a century off here. > Gosh, is this stuff bad. That's why I do parking tickets for a living. > > > But remember, Barry -- we're dating words, not things! Very important distinction to keep in mind. Joanne Despres From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Fri Apr 25 14:36:12 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:36:12 -0400 Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) Message-ID: Ersatz is a German adjective meaning "substitute" but which has also evolved to mean something like "make-believe". While I always associate it with the privations of the global Depression in the '30s and the then privations of wartime during and immediately after the Third Reich, it would be interesting to know the cultural context for its adoption in the late 19th Century....and how it came to be adopted by English speakers then and in what context it was used (political or military?). ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:22 PM Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Bapopik at AOL.COM > Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > ERSATZ > > OED and Merriam-Webster have 1875 for "ersatz." I found "ersatz" in only the first of the below, but welcome anyone to ruin his or her eyes on the other six items. > > > NEWS NOTES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 18, 1871; pg. 1, 1 pgs > ("The real army and _ersatz_ reserve--iz., those below the regulation stature, who, however, are in general quite fit to take the field and are taller than the French--has not been called out.") > > FRANCE AND PURSSIA.; British Diplomacy in the France-Prussian Imbroglio.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 15, 1870; pg. 5, 1 pgs > > Classified Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1867; pg. 6, 2 pgs > > Article 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 16, 1867; pg. 5, 1 pgs > > THIRTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS.; SECOND SESSION. SENATE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 24, 1865; pg. 5, 1 pgs > > FROM UTAH.; A Bold Enterprise--The Deseret Express and Road Company--Mormonism Speculative--The Bench Laying Aside the Ermine-Miscellaneous.; Special Correspondence of the N.Y. Daily Times.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Apr 18, 1856; pg. 2, 1 pgs > > LATEST INTELLIGENCE; XXXIId CONGRESS...First Session.. SENATE. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. ; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Dec 18, 1851; pg. 2, 1 pgs > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > ERSATZ COFFEE > > We discussed "ersatz kaffee" here once before. I didn't find "kaffee," but here's some "coffee." > > > Reich Gets New Ersatz Coffee; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1940; pg. 11, 1 pgs > > INSIDE GERMANY: THE MARK OF WAR; INSIDE GERMANY; By OTTO D. TOLISCHUS, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, European; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 17, 1939; pg. 102, 4 pgs > > SPAIN PAINFULLY RISES FROM RUINS; The People Work and Play Once More, but Militarism and Distress Are Evident; By E. NEVILLE HART; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 13, 1939; pg. E5, 1 pgs > > BOOKS OF THE TIMES; By JOHN CHAMBERLAIN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 16, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs > > FOUND FOOD ENOUGH IN BELGIAN CITIES; American Observer Was Also Surprised at Relative Plenty in Alsace. DUE TO GERMANS' RETREAT Armistice Prevented Their Ravaging These Sources Which Had Supplied Their Armies.; By WALTER DURANTY. Copyright, 1918, by The New York Times Company Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 3, 1918; pg. 5, 1 pgs > ("...bread, butter and sugar gratis, and a vile ersatz coffee, with genuine homemade cordial, 1 mark.") > From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 25 15:47:56 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:47:56 +0100 Subject: Joystick Message-ID: A delighful folk etymology holds that the aircraft control stick was originally called a Joyce stick, after its inventer, a Mr Joyce. If we leave that aside, as we must, we are left with an obvious slang source in "joy" + "stick", with a first recorded appearance in 1910. Some etymologists see a crude sexual symbolism in the term, others not. (The implication from HDAS is that the sense of the penis comes later than its aviation one and derives from it.) Has any member of the list done any work on the term or be able to turn up early references that might tie down its antecedents more firmly? -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From millerk at NYTIMES.COM Fri Apr 25 16:31:27 2003 From: millerk at NYTIMES.COM (Kathleen E. Miller) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:31:27 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The New York Times From Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM Fri Apr 25 16:35:16 2003 From: Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM (LeMay, William) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:35:16 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: A minute's googling listed "earworm" as a common term for it. http://www.rense.com/general35/alone.htm >-----Original Message----- >From: Kathleen E. Miller [ mailto:millerk at NYTIMES.COM ] >Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 11:31 AM >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >Subject: Question > > >Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the >phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a >never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? > >Kathleen E. Miller >Research Assistant to William Safire >The New York Times > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 16:37:02 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:37:02 EDT Subject: Joystick Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/2003 11:48:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG writes: > we are left with an obvious slang > source in "joy" + "stick", with a first recorded appearance in 1910 According to Jane's Encylocpedia of Aviation (1993 edition, New York: Crescent Books, 1993, ISBN 0-517-10316-8) page 161 column 1, there was the Bleriot VIII, built in 1908, "featuring a single lever control joystick". What Bleriot, a Frenchman, called the thing was not reported. This brings up the possibility that the joystick was invented and named in France, suggesting that "joystick" has nothing to do with "joy" but rather might be an Anglicization of a French word, perhaps "joie" meaning "game". CIrca 1910 the French were establishing much of the technical jargon of aviation. MWCD10 says "aileron", "empennage", and "fuselage" are all from the French and gives all three a date of 1909. James A. Landau systems engineer FAA Technical Center (ACB-510/BCI) Atlantic City Int'l Airport NJ 08405 USA From RonButters at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 16:39:30 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:39:30 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Joystick?= Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/03 11:48:27 AM, TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG writes: > Some etymologists see a crude sexual symbolism in the term, others > not. > Some etymologists see a crude sexual symbolism in just about everything, so why does this surprise you? There are even those who think that "This sucks!" has its origins in crude sexual repartee. From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Fri Apr 25 16:43:03 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:43:03 -0400 Subject: Joystick Message-ID: >. This brings up > the possibility that the joystick was invented and named in France, > suggesting that "joystick" has nothing to do with "joy" but rather might be > an Anglicization of a French word, perhaps "joie" meaning "game". > No -- "joie" does mean "joy." "Jeu" means "game." From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 16:44:46 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:44:46 EDT Subject: Question Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, millerk at NYTIMES.COM writes: > Like a never-ending record of, say, > Waltzing Matilda? > Up went the swagman and jumped into Ms. Miller's head "You haven't heard all of it," cried he And his voice may be heard in a never-ending stereo "You'll keep a-waltzing, Ms. Miller, with me!" From pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU Fri Apr 25 16:51:28 2003 From: pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU (Patti Kurtz) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:51:28 -0400 Subject: Brand names Message-ID: Can anyone list some contemporary references, either internet or journal articles, which discuss the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students doing a project on this who are having trouble finding information. Thanks! -- Patti J. Kurtz Assistant Professor, English From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 17:13:30 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:13:30 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Brand=20names?= Message-ID: > such as "Jeep" for an SUV > "jeep" is a special case, because it was a generic word, and a well-known one at that, before it became a brand name. - Allan Metcalf From pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU Fri Apr 25 17:16:40 2003 From: pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU (Patti Kurtz) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:16:40 -0400 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_ _ _ _Brand_names?= In-Reply-To: <1ec.75a63b9.2bdac6ba@aol.com> Message-ID: Okay, so maybe like "Kleenex" for "tissue." At 01:13 PM 4/25/03 -0400, you wrote: > > such as "Jeep" for an SUV > > >"jeep" is a special case, because it was a generic word, and a well-known one >at that, before it became a brand name. > >- Allan Metcalf Patti J. Kurtz Assistant Professor, English Advisor, Kilikilik I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 25 17:41:10 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:41:10 +0100 Subject: Joystick In-Reply-To: <1cd.81eca63.2bdabe2e@aol.com> Message-ID: > CIrca 1910 the French were establishing much of the technical > jargon of aviation. MWCD10 says "aileron", "empennage", and > "fuselage" are all from the French and gives all three a date of > 1909. That's true. "Hangar" also, I believe. OED2's first citation for "joystick" (1910) also gives what seems to be the equivalent French term of the period: "cloche", though why it should have been compared with a bell is unclear (was it French slang, perhaps?). However, I am told that the modern French term is "manche". Because of these, I am assuming that "joystick" can't actually be French (unless somebody fluent in that language can tell me of an equivalent slang term). -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From self at TOWSE.COM Fri Apr 25 17:45:27 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:45:27 -0700 Subject: Question Message-ID: > >Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the > >phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a > >never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? > > > >Kathleen E. Miller "LeMay, William" wrote: > > A minute's googling listed "earworm" as a common term for it. > > http://www.rense.com/general35/alone.htm > "earworm" is in quite common use in the groups I frequent on Usenet. Checking Googja, the first instance I can find "earworm" used in a Usenet post is a post to soc.motss 1993-03-18. The person writing is explaining "ohrwurm" and translates that German word as "earworm." From that thread, the usage seems to have taken off in soc.motss and spread from there to other Usenet groups and the Web. Best, Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From JMB at STRADLEY.COM Fri Apr 25 18:14:22 2003 From: JMB at STRADLEY.COM (Baker, John) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:14:22 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: An earlier use in the 9/18/87 issue of Newsday quotes alto saxophonist Bobby Watson: >>"I like to create little earworms," he says. "That way people who don't know the technical side of the music will start humming."<< Several recent articles discuss earworms and mention other terms for them: "'Cognitively infectious' musical loops." Observer, 4/6/03. "Stuck song syndrome," "repetitive refrain injury." Herald (Glasgow, Scotland), 3/22/03. "Sticky tune." Richmond Times-Dispatch, 3/20/03. This seems to be the most popular term, after earworm. Several sources refer to "endomusia," the silent recall of a melody, citing Hinsie and Campbell, Psychiatric Dictionary, 4th ed. John Baker -----Original Message----- From: Towse [mailto:self at TOWSE.COM] Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:45 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Question > >Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the > >phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a > >never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? > > > >Kathleen E. Miller "LeMay, William" wrote: > > A minute's googling listed "earworm" as a common term for it. > > http://www.rense.com/general35/alone.htm > "earworm" is in quite common use in the groups I frequent on Usenet. Checking Googja, the first instance I can find "earworm" used in a Usenet post is a post to soc.motss 1993-03-18. The person writing is explaining "ohrwurm" and translates that German word as "earworm." From that thread, the usage seems to have taken off in soc.motss and spread from there to other Usenet groups and the Web. Best, Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 25 18:24:07 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:24:07 -0400 Subject: Joystick In-Reply-To: <3EA98146.8895.23B258F@localhost> Message-ID: >OED2's first citation for "joystick" (1910) also gives what seems to be >the equivalent French >term of the period: "cloche", though why it should have been compared >with a bell is unclear (was it French slang, perhaps?). OED gives the answer under "cloche", I think (I guess some were like bells). >However, I am told that the modern French term is "manche". Fully "manche a` balai" = "broomstick" apparently. I don't know whether this refers ONLY to the shape or whether the current Halloween-cartoon concept of a witch's aircraft extends to French back when. Apparently recent "joystick" in computer/video-game use translated as "ba^ton de joie" has raised a French eyebrow or two, or has been imagined to. "Joyce stick" surely smells bogus. It is my poorly supported tentative suspicion that "joy stick" is NOT derived from a sexual metaphor: compare "joy ride" and also less common non-sexual expressions such as "joy cart", "joy wagon", "joy buzzer", "joy juice". -- Doug Wilson From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Fri Apr 25 18:27:43 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:27:43 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: I have an entry for "earworm": http://www.wordspy.com/words/earworm.asp Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen E. Miller" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 12:31 PM Subject: Question > Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the phenomenon of > having something stuck in your head? Like a never-ending record of, say, > Waltzing Matilda? > > Kathleen E. Miller > Research Assistant to William Safire > The New York Times > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 18:42:29 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:42:29 EDT Subject: Brand names Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:52:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU writes: > the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for > every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students > doing a > project on this who are having trouble finding information. > try the magazine "Advertising Age" the legal-minded might want to delve in court cases in which a company tries to protect its trademark from being ruled generic, as happened to "Aspirin" James A. Landau From RonButters at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 18:59:15 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:59:15 EDT Subject: JEEP a Brand name? Message-ID: Allan sounds pretty sure about this one, but it is exceedingly rare for a truly "generic" word to become a trademark. In fact, it is my understanding that federal law (since the 1940s) explicitly forbids it. There was a case early in the 20th century in which Singer was declared "generic" by the courts and then later was declared not generic after all. Allan, do you have the court citations for your jeep assertion? I don't doubt your understanding, I'd just like to know the particulars. In a message dated 4/25/03 1:14:11 PM, AAllan at AOL.COM writes: > > such as "Jeep" for an SUV > > > "jeep" is a special case, because it was a generic word, and a well-known > one > at that, before it became a brand name. > > - Allan Metcalf > From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 25 19:19:34 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:19:34 -0400 Subject: JEEP a Brand name? In-Reply-To: <44.307ac610.2bdadf83@aol.com> Message-ID: >... it is exceedingly rare for a >truly "generic" word to become a trademark. In fact, it is my understanding >that federal law (since the 1940s) explicitly forbids it. This assumes the infallibility of the US Government among other things. "Thingamajig" is a US registered trademark, for example, from 1980 (generic use, 1828). "Skivvies" is (or was) a US trademark, from 1957 (generic use, 1927, IN A SIMILAR APPLICATION). Maybe slang or colloquial terms tend to be ignored? -- Doug Wilson From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 25 19:27:35 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:27:35 +0100 Subject: Joystick In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425141406.04c00d30@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: > OED gives the answer under "cloche", I think (I guess some were > like bells). Thanks for pointing that out. I plead guilty to inadequate research. > It is my poorly supported tentative suspicion that "joy stick" is > NOT derived from a sexual metaphor: compare "joy ride" and also > less common non-sexual expressions such as "joy cart", "joy > wagon", "joy buzzer", "joy juice". Under the circumstances, it would seem that all we can have are tentative suggestions. It is interesting to see that several of these expressions starting with "joy" date from roughly the same period as does "joystick". Perhaps, like the joystick, joy was in the air at the time. -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 19:33:38 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:33:38 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20JEEP=20a=20Brand=20name=3F?= Message-ID: Here's the entry for 1940 from that authoritative work, "America in So Many Words" by Metcalf and Barnhart (Houghton Mifflin, 1997): << Jeep was a term that carried humor before it carried soldiers. It also carried a wide variety of other military meanings before it became the designation for the “half-ton four-by-four command-reconnaissance car” first manufactured for the U.S. Army in September 1940. Both the design and the name had their beginning in the 1930s, years before they came together in the first production models. The design of the as yet unnamed vehicle apparently originated with a tank captain in 1932, and its development involved three different manufacturers over the rest of the decade. Meanwhile, the term jeep was undergoing its own development. In the military, jeep could mean a recruit, a poorly-fitting coat, or the Link Trainer for pilots. In civilian life, Eugene the Jeep was introduced March 16, 1936 as a new character in the Popeye comic strip. Eugene was a small but mighty creature whose cry was jeep, jeep. The combination of connotations, military and civilian, little and yet powerful, must have been the inspiration that led someone to call the new military vehicle a jeep and thereby fix the meaning for future generations. World War II brought the modern meaning of jeep to all corners of the globe traversed by American soldiers. After the war it added a civilian dimension; the sturdy box with four-wheel drive, open to nature and the elements, became popular for civilian recreation and scientific adventures. The jeep remains in popularity and production now, more than half a century after it first appeared. >> Now the earliest instances "jeep" referring to the vehicle aren't fully known. But after this book was published, Barry Popik posted a 1941 citation: >From THIS WEEK magazine, NEW YORK HERALD TRIBUNE, 27 April 1941, pg. 11, col. 2: ...its midget trucks (jeeps) scooting through the woods like rabbits or, deftly mounted on empty gasoline drums, crossing a river with complete ease. Also from the ARMY TIMES later in 1941: While driving the "jeep" cars, light trucks, wreckers, passenger cars and other types of motor vehicles, the Army drivers have developed a language just as mysterious as Hindustani--and sounds just like it. A lengthy discussion of the origins of "jeep" by Cecil Adams was posted to ADS-L in March 2000. In any case, while the exact details of its origin remain uncertain, it is certain that "jeep" was in use during World War II as a generic, not a brand name. - Allan Metcalf From RonButters at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 19:58:50 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:58:50 EDT Subject: Brand names -- references ETC. Message-ID: My former student Jennifer Westeghaus (now an intellectual property attorney) and I gave a paper on this very subject at the SHEL conference in Seattle last spring (to be published in the conference proceedings if all goes according to plan). We are also scheduled to give papers on the same topic at the DSNA meeting at Duke at the end of May 2003 and in Sydney, Australia, in July. I don't think the practice -- i.e., asking for a "Kleenex" instead of a tissue, which Jennifer and I note is really just a kind of short-hand reference (technically, SYNECDOCHE or ANTONOMASIA) -- is really "growing." But there is a lot of evidence that the process of trademarks actually turning into generics is on the decline. Some published sources (which our work builds on but does not always agree with): Baron, Dennis. 1989. "Word Law." Verbatim 16.1: 1–4. [an excellent introduction from one of the ADS's very best writers] Clankie, Shawn M. 2001. "Why Bud Weiser Can Sell Cars (But Not Beer)." Verbatim 26.3:3. Clankie, Shawn M. 2002. A Theory of Genericization and Brand Name Change. Edwin Mellon Press. Landau, Sidney. 2001. Dictionaries: The Art and Craft of Lexicography, 2nd edition. Cambridge University Press. [see his discussion of the "metaphorical" use of BAND-AID--a good start but, in our opinion, Landau misses some of the linguistic subtleties] Paikeday, Thomas M. "Xeroxing in American Speech." Paper presented at the American Dialect Society, 27 December 1974. Shuy, Roger. 2002. Linguistic Battles in Trademark Disputes. Palgrave. [acknowledges Landau's arguments and illustrates with other examples, but does not move beyond Landau's frame or reference with respect to genericness] Merriam-Webster. Word for the Wise. 1998 (January 9). http://www.m-w.com/wftw/98jan/010998.htm [suggests the term ANTONOMASIA where we prefer the good old-fashioned SYNECDOCHE) In a message dated 4/25/03 12:55:32 PM, pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU writes: > Can anyone list some contemporary references, either internet or journal > articles, which discuss the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names > for > every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)?  I have students > doing a > project on this who are having trouble finding information. > > Thanks! > > -- > Patti J. Kurtz > Assistant Professor, English > From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 25 20:08:44 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:08:44 -0700 Subject: JEEP a Brand name? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425151451.04bd23b0@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: > >... it is exceedingly rare for a > >truly "generic" word to become a trademark. In fact, it is > my understanding > >that federal law (since the 1940s) explicitly forbids it. > > This assumes the infallibility of the US Government among > other things. > "Thingamajig" is a US registered trademark, for example, from > 1980 (generic > use, 1828). "Skivvies" is (or was) a US trademark, from 1957 > (generic use, > 1927, IN A SIMILAR APPLICATION). > > Maybe slang or colloquial terms tend to be ignored? As far as I know (I'm not a lawyer, but as a software product manager I've picked up quite a bit about intellectual property law), there isn't a "no prior use" rule with trademarks as there is with patents. Trademarks do not have to be original. They must, however, be "distinctive." This is defined as being associated with a particular product or service, differentiating that product from its competitors. And what is distinctive in one industry may not be distinctive in another. Originality makes a trademark easier to defend, but it's not a requirement. Everyday words can be trademarked, but they're harder to defend--it's easier to prove a unique coinage is distinctive. An orchard, for example, could not trademark "Apple." It is not distinctive in the world of fruit, describing a type of product not a particular one. There was no problem, however, with a computer company trademarking "Apple." This lack of distinctiveness is the problem with products like "Aspirin." If a product is too successful (catastrophic success?), it's name may become associated with the product in general, instead of the brand, therefore losing its distinctiveness. It's the loss of distinctiveness that is key, not simply widespread use of the word. So, there is no problem with an automobile company trademarking "Jeep," so long as no competing company manufactured vehicles known as jeeps. At the time the trademark was established, there was only one manufacturer (Willys?) who made a vehicle known as a "jeep." If you said "jeep" in the context of automobiles, everyone knew you were talking about the light trucks made by Willys and made famous by the US Army in WWII. Therefore it was distinctive. Whether it remains distinctive in the future is something else. Also, it's relatively easy to get a trademark registered. Surviving a court case challenging it is something else. "Thingamajig" may be registered, it might not have a hope in hell of surviving a challenge though--or it might if its application were narrow enough (IIRC, the trademark is for a candy bar, and that may be sufficiently limited to prevent other candymakers from using it as a product name). From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 20:20:10 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:20:10 EDT Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: At a website on jeep history, http://www.ecars.com.au/Jeep/Jeep.History.html it's interesting that the first jeeps were made by more than one company: << Early Years 1940: Jeep specification issued and prototypes built by Bantam, Willys-Overland and later Ford; see the Rifkind report. 1941-1945: Jeep MB, built by Willys- Overland and Ford, Willys 2.2L 4cyl side-valve engine. Pictured is a 1942 Jeep MB. 1942: Ford GPA - Amphibious Jeep or Seep. Civilian Jeeps - CJ CJ2A: 1945-1949, first civilian Jeep. . . . >> etc - Allan Metcalf From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 20:22:40 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:22:40 EDT Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: At a website on jeep history, http://www.ecars.com.au/Jeep/Jeep.History.html it's interesting that the first jeeps were made by more than one company: << Early Years 1940: Jeep specification issued and prototypes built by Bantam, Willys-Overland and later Ford; see the Rifkind report. 1941-1945: Jeep MB, built by Willys- Overland and Ford, Willys 2.2L 4cyl side-valve engine. Pictured is a 1942 Jeep MB. 1942: Ford GPA - Amphibious Jeep or Seep. Civilian Jeeps - CJ CJ2A: 1945-1949, first civilian Jeep. . . . >> etc See also the Rifkind Report that this site refers to: http://www.ecars.com.au/Books/Rifkind.html - Allan Metcalf From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Fri Apr 25 20:21:05 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:21:05 -0400 Subject: Pound Party (1869) In-Reply-To: <2B582122.176A1164.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: At 02:56 AM 4/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: That's a great idea! Or we could have a Read party, or a Kurath party, or a McDavid party. . . . >(If the ADS were to hold a "Pound Party," I'm sure someone would bring >reading material from Ezra or Louise Pound--ed.) From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Fri Apr 25 20:27:59 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:27:59 -0400 Subject: Chicken-Fried Steak(1935); Country Gravy(1915); Stack Cakes In-Reply-To: <76BE9B11.6DECB627.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: At 09:17 PM 4/24/2003 -0400, you wrote: This is still the term used in southern Ohio. >--------------------------------------------------------------- >STACK CAKE > > Not in OED, but it will be when they get around to "S." > More pressing, of course, is DARE, which is at "SK." > > > News of Food; North and South Vie in Kentucky Menus -- Limestone > Lettuce Is Distinctive in Salads ; New York Times (1857-Current file), > New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1953; pg. 18, 1 pgs >("_Stack Cake for Picnics_ Another regional dessert is a stack cake, >which consists of several layers of cake put together with a thick >filling. According to one theory, the stack cake dates back to colonial >times when the all-day picnic was an important event and each family >contributed to the menu. Because it was difficult to fit individually >packed cakes and pies into a hamper, someone conceived the idea of >layering together several cakes, and sometimes pies, into one unit. This >recipe is from east Kentucky...") From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Fri Apr 25 20:30:58 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:30:58 -0400 Subject: (Maryland) Beaten Biscuit (1854) In-Reply-To: <3121AC09.7FF9BFBF.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: This is still a common term, isn't it? for baking powder biscuits, I assume? At 12:57 AM 4/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: > DARE has 1877 for "beaten biscuit," also called "Maryland beaten > biscuit" or "beat biscuit." There's a good map. > The Gerritsen Collection has "beat biscuit" in a shrimp recipe in the > CAROLINA HOUSEWIFE, but I don't think it applies. > From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Apr 26 00:32:14 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:32:14 -0700 Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: I have read somewhere or other, and my father once told me that Ford jeeps were preferred so much over Willys by soldiers that one Ford jeep was worth six Willys in military trade. According to my father this was due to the fact that the Ford was based on the easy to repair Ford Model A design which could be fixed if it broke down with a pair of pliers and some bailing wire. I cannot vouch for the truth of this story. Does anyone know if there is any element of truth to it? Page Stephens ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:22 PM Subject: Jeeps > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: AAllan at AOL.COM > Subject: Jeeps > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > At a website on jeep history, > http://www.ecars.com.au/Jeep/Jeep.History.html > it's interesting that the first jeeps were made by more than one company: > > << Early Years > > 1940: Jeep specification issued and prototypes built by Bantam, > Willys-Overland and later Ford; see the Rifkind report. > 1941-1945: Jeep MB, built by Willys- Overland and Ford, Willys 2.2L 4cyl > side-valve engine. > Pictured is a 1942 Jeep MB. > > 1942: Ford GPA - Amphibious Jeep or Seep. > > Civilian Jeeps - CJ > > CJ2A: 1945-1949, first civilian Jeep. . . . >> etc > > See also the Rifkind Report that this site refers to: > http://www.ecars.com.au/Books/Rifkind.html > > - Allan Metcalf From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Apr 26 00:49:36 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:49:36 -0700 Subject: Diner versus Dinor Message-ID: Has anyone other than my wife who pointed this out to me noticed that the word diner in terms of an eating place is spelled dinor between the Ohio and New York borders, ie. mostly in Pennsylvania? Here are two references. http://www.fishlakeerie.com/girarddinor/ http://www.geocities.com/cornwallace55/lepp.html Page Stephens From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Apr 26 01:10:14 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:10:14 -0700 Subject: Brand names Message-ID: Some of you may also remember the fight that Xerox put up some years ago in order to keep people from xeroxing anything at all but to make copies by the use of a Xerox (tm) machine. Coca Cola lost the battle to their right to use the word "cola" as a proprietary word many years ago. This explains their use of (tm) after the word "Coke" in their ads. In Canada, btw, unless I am incorrect the word "aspirin" is still registered as a trade mark to Bayer. A few years ago Budweiser tried to keep florists from using the phrase, "This bud's for you" in their advertisements. Page Stephens ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. Landau" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Brand names > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "James A. Landau" > Subject: Re: Brand names > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:52:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, > pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU writes: > > > the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for > > every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students > > doing a > > project on this who are having trouble finding information. > > > > try the magazine "Advertising Age" > > the legal-minded might want to delve in court cases in which a company tries > to protect its trademark from being ruled generic, as happened to "Aspirin" > > James A. Landau From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 25 22:52:08 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:52:08 -0700 Subject: Brand names In-Reply-To: <003601c30b90$98766d00$07313a41@m1r7o5> Message-ID: > word "Coke" in their ads. In Canada, btw, unless I am > incorrect the word > "aspirin" is still registered as a trade mark to Bayer. That may be true. The laws differ from country to country. In the case of "Aspirin," Britain and France never recognized the German company's trademark on the word--Aspirin hit the market in 1914. The US, not being at war with Germany at the time, recognized it initially and then in 1917, when it entered the war, stripped Bayer of all its American assets as an enemy alien corporation. The Sterling Drug Company bought Bayer's US facilities and trademarks at government auction. After the war, Bayer was allowed to sell its products in the US, but it couldn't use the names "Bayer" or "Aspirin," those belonged to Sterling. So the "Bayer Aspirin" sold in the US was not made by Bayer. In 1921, the US Supreme Court ruled that "aspirin" had lost its distinctive nature (setting the precedent for this type of action) and Sterling lost the exclusive right to the term. In the 1990s, Bayer bought Sterling, finally reacquiring the right to use its own name in the US. From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Fri Apr 25 23:11:49 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:11:49 -0700 Subject: Brand names In-Reply-To: <1051289488.3ea96790d1286@mail.heidelberg.edu> Message-ID: try www.brandchannel.com cheers - Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Patti Kurtz Sent: April 25, 2003 9:51 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Brand names Can anyone list some contemporary references, either internet or journal articles, which discuss the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students doing a project on this who are having trouble finding information. Thanks! -- Patti J. Kurtz Assistant Professor, English From dumasb at UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU Fri Apr 25 23:33:15 2003 From: dumasb at UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU (Bethany K. Dumas) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:33:15 -0400 Subject: trademark law Message-ID: An important starting point for assessing the of words or phrases is the legal continuum of generic, descriptive, suggestive, and fanciful/arbitrary terms. Terms in general use are often generic. For a term to be "merely descriptive," it must trigger an almost instantaneous mental connection on the part of the consumer between the term and the exact item to which it refers. Such terms generally cannot be protected. If the use of the term at issue in the relevant context requires use of the imagination or use of inferential techniques in thinking in order to arrive at the connection between the term and its referent, then the term is suggestive, rather than descriptive. Finally, there is the category fanciful/arbitrary - terms which have no direct relationship to the referents. Suggestive and fanciful/arbitrary terms may be able to be protected. (I could write 50-60 more pp. if anyone is interested.) Bethany From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Fri Apr 25 23:44:33 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:44:33 -0400 Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: Word Mark JEEP Goods and Services IC 012. US 019. G & S: AUTOMOBILES AND STRUCTURAL PARTS THEREOF. FIRST USE: 19401120. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19430205 Filing Date February 13, 1943 Owner (REGISTRANT) WILLYS-OVERLAND MOTORS, INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE WOLCOTT BLVD. TOLEDO OHIO Of interest is that Willys trademarked the name "jeep," claiming that it was in use(ones assume by that company} as of 11/20/1940. From douglas at NB.NET Sat Apr 26 01:34:30 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:34:30 -0400 Subject: Diner versus Dinor In-Reply-To: <000701c30b8d$b6bdeb60$07313a41@m1r7o5> Message-ID: "Dinor" for "diner" is said to be characteristic of NW PA, i.e., the Erie PA area. This odd spelling is rare or nonexistent in Pittsburgh. -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 26 09:44:31 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 05:44:31 EDT Subject: Aunt Kate Wicks & "Saratoga Potato Chips" (1917) Message-ID: The WASHINGTON POST copy was probably "Wicks," not "Wieks." It was hard to read. But it was definitely not "Weeks," as some have given her name. Mary O'Donnell of Saratoga has kindly looked up a local obituary, and it has "Wicks." Presumably, that was current and reliable. Plenty of mysteries remain. If Kate Wicks was at Ballston Spa and didn't come to Saratoga until 1861, how did she invent "Saratoga chips" at Moon's in Saratoga in 1853? Subj: Aunt Kate Date: 4/25/2003 1:41:15 PM Eastern Standard Time From: modonnel at skidmore.edu To: Bapopik at aol.com, modonnel at skidmore.edu Sent from the Internet (Details) Barry, Went to the SSPL yesterday and found the obituary for Catherine A. Wicks. I'll send you a copy - but here is what it said - Front page "The Saratogian" Friday, May 18, 1917 Mrs. Wicks dies at age of 102 Catherine A. Wicks, who could in truth remember when "Broadway was a prairie" died early this morning at her home, 6 Union Street, at the advanced age of one hundred and two years, five months and one day. Mrs. Wicks , who was twice married and the mother of a large family, was born in Ballston Spa on December 17, 1814, the daughter of Abraham and Catherine Speck. She was a sister of the late George Speck (Crum), pioneer road house proprietor and cook of Saratoga Lake, who died several years ago, and was herself well known as a cook in the early days of Saratoga Lake's civilized history. It was as a cook at Moon's Lake house many years ago that "Aunt Kate", as she was generally known, conceived the idea of slicing potatoes to a tissue paper thinness and frying them in deep fat, thus being the "inventor" of Saratoga chips. Before going to the Lake to cook, Mrs. Wicks was for fourteen years the cook at the San Souci hotel in Ballston Spa. She was first married in 1846 and came to Saratoga in 1861. As a centarian, she came honestly by her long life, her father dying at the age of ninety-nine, while her mother is said to have reached the age of 111. Her survivors include seven children, Mrs. Caroline Stewart of this city, Richard Adkins of Syracuse, William Adkins of this city, Albert Adkins of Plainfield, N.J., Mrs. Jennie Golden, Edward Adkins and Frederick Wicks all of this city; seven grandchildren, Mrs. Dolly Freeman, Mrs. Kate Freeman, Hattie, Albert, John and Weed Stewart and Major Wicks; and the following great grandchildren: Mary Stewart, Kathleen Freeman, Gilbert Freeman, Stewart Freeman, Jane Freeman and Ralph Freeman. In an interview with a Saratogian reported more than fifteen years ago, Mrs. Wicks is quoted as saying: "I can remember when there wasn't any railroad here. They ran stages from Ballston to Saratoga when I came here. In those days all over on that side of Broadway (indicating the east side) was frog pond and all of this side was blow sand." Funeral services will be held Sunday afternoon at 2 o'clock from the late residence and 2:30 o'clock from the A. M. E. Zion church. Burial will be in Greenridge Cemetery. Mary begin:vcard n:O'Donnell;Mary K. tel;fax:518-580-5540 tel;work:518-580-5000 x 4171 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Skidmore College;Lucy Scribner Library adr:;;North Broadway;Saratoga Springs,;NY;12866; version:2.1 email;internet:modonnel at skidmore.edu title:Circulation x-mozilla-cpt:;28888 fn:Mary K. O'Donnell end:vcard From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 26 11:15:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:15:15 EDT Subject: French Fried Onions (1910); Amish Preaching Soup (1950) Message-ID: The branch of "fast food" known as New York City's Parking Violations Bureau in the Bronx had some out-of-touch Manhattanites devise an electronic queueing system. It resulted in utter chaos yesterday. Ten hours with no break but a half hour lunch. This and the good fortune of having dead family members enables me to give away my work for free. Working in the Bronx and solving the "Yankees" counts for nothing with the New York Yankees and now the NEW YORK TIMES, I guess. Below, if I'm conscious, is some leftover research from Thursday...I'll probably visit the Library of Congress on Monday. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- FRENCH FRIED ONIONS & FRIED GREEN TOMATOES This is from the NYPL's Susan Dwight Bliss microfilmed collection of food clippings from NYC newspapers. The dates are handwritten and nearly illegible, but this one is clearly 1910. NEW YORK SUN 29 May 1910 Pg. 195 in Susan Dwight Bliss collection A novelty that progressive New York restaurants are introducing with great appreciation from their patrons is one that can be reproduced at home without difficulty--French fried onions. In flavor and appearance they bear little relation to the usual breakfast fish, and which, moreover, are possible to many to whom "for the stomach's sake" the others are impossible. The sweet Bermuda onion is used for this new dainty. It is cut thin to resemble French fried potatoes. Before cooking dredge with flour. Fry quickly in a wire basket in hot deep fat until crisp, brown, and free of grease. Very delicious as an accompaniment for beef steak, or, in fact, good with almost any kind of red meat. Now that tomato season is approaching, the fact that green tomatoes are more delicately flavored and more delicious fried than the red ones usually cooked that way is worth a word of reminder. Jot it down in the household new idea book to be tried for breakfast some morning, or at luncheon, with or without a meat dish. Cut into thin slices some large, perfectly green specimens, (they must not have begun to show any signs of ripening, and those freshly pulled are really the best for the dish,) sprinkle with salt and dip in corn meal until covered. Saute in a little butter until a nice brown. Cover the frying pan throughout the cooking process to keep the tomatoes tender. They may be brought to table with the accompaniment of a brown sauce or plain. ("French fried onions" is a "new dainty" in 1910? "Fried green tomatoes" for the household "new idea" book in 1910?--ed.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- AMISH PREACHING SOUP HOBBY HORSE COOKERY: FAVORITE RECIPES OF MARJORY HENDRICKS' WATER GATE INN, WASHINGTON, D. C. compiled by Flora G. Orr 1950 Pg. 6: AMISH PREACHING SOUP (Often served after church in the Pennsylvania Dutch regions because it can be simmering while the people are praying) 2 cups baked or boiled navy beans 3 slices bacon 2 medium-size onion, minced 4 cups cold water 1 tablespoon butter 1 tablespoon flour Seasonings: salt, pepper, paprika, Lowry's seasoned salt Pg. 7: Navy beans should be soaked overnight, before boiling them until they are tender. About the only time you would use baked beans would be an occasion when you had some left-over baked beans. Cook the bacon. Add it to the beans, minced onion and cold water. Simmer until beans are very soft, then rub all through a strainer to puree the beans and remove the hulls. (A few whole beans may be kept for floating in the finished soup.) Place strained mixture on the fire and add a little more water, if needed, as the soup must not be too thick. Rub butter with flour to make a paste and put this in soup as a binder, stirring until it blends nicely. Cook 2 or 3 minutes longer. Season. (Instead of the bacon and 4 cups cold water, bits of ham and 4 cups of stock from cooking a ham bone may be substituted.) Pg. 7: PENNSYLVANIA DUTCH HOT POPOVERS Pg. 8: INTOXICATED LOIN OF PORK LATTWAERICK Pg. 11: ROAST BEEF OR CORNED BEEF HEXEL Pg. 17: DUTCH FARMER'S HODGE PODGE CHICKEN...MENNONITE BAKED CHICKEN IN SOUR CREAM Pg. 18: MUSHROOMS CARBAREAN Pg. 19: SHRIMP WIGGLE ESCHE PUDDLE Break freshly-cooked and dressed shrimp into pieces not more than one-half inch in length. Combine them with enough fresh or frozen peas to make one-half the measure of the shrimp pieces. Make a white sauce with cream or very rich milk, butter and flour and seasonings. Put shrimp and peas in this sauce. Heat very slowly, stirring constantly to avoid scorching. The addition of a few mushrooms, chopped green peppers and pimentoes is permissible, if desired. Just before serving, season with sherry wine. If necessary to thin the sauce during cooking, use chicken broth. Pg. 21: SOFT SHELL CRABS PIMLICO Pg. 22: SPINACH PUREE SMITANE Pg. 23: CORN PUDDING EPHRATA Pg. 24: TOASTED CARROTS LEBANON Pg. 26: FRIED POATOES LEIDY...LANCASTER COUNTY SALAD Pg. 27: SOUR CREAM-RAISIN PIE (Sometimes called Funeral Pie by the Pennsylvania Dutch, but there is nothing mournful about it!) (DARE has "funeral pie" from 1949 and 1950. Recipe typed on request--ed.) Pg. 29: GRANDMA SHIELD'S MONTGOMERY CAKE-PIE Pg. 30: DUTCH APPLE-CHEESE PIE...BARBARA FRITCHIE SUGAR HOUSE PIE Pg. 32: ETHEL'S FAMOUS BRANDY PUDDING SAUCE Pg. 35: BAKED ORANGES WHITLOCK From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 26 12:41:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:41:12 EDT Subject: Texas Trash (1985) Message-ID: A Chex mix. That company has promoted "Texas Trash," but it doesn't look like they originated it. See Google Groups. Will "Texas Trash" be in the next DARE? "Texas Trash" is not to be confused with DALLAS actress Charlene Tilton or any others on that show. I've gotta do something for the Texans (Kathleen Miller?) on the list. http://www.russelltexas.com/trash.htm http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5358/appetizer/appetizer13.html http://www.cookingcache.com/texastrash.shtml http://www.jewish-food.org/recipes/textrash.htm http://www.angelfire.com/doc/general/insite.html?search_string=%22texas+trash% 22+chex& member_url=http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?search_string=%22te xas+trash%22+chex http://www.nbc5i.com/cookingwithcarol/1758024/detail.html http://www.recipegoldmine.com/regionaltexas/texas24.html http://www.cookbooks4sale.com/displayRecipe.php/rid.4837/by.linklist/display.h tm Typed DrawingWord Mark TEXAS TRASH Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: snack food, namely a mix consisting of cereals, pretzels, sesame sticks, seeds and spices. FIRST USE: 19850820. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850927 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74664396 Filing Date April 21, 1995 Published for Opposition June 4, 1996 Registration Number 1996639 Registration Date August 27, 1996 Owner (REGISTRANT) Southern Style Nuts, Inc. CORPORATION TEXAS P.O. Box 860 Denison TEXAS 75020 Attorney of Record W. Thomas Timmons Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TEXAS" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark TEXAS TRASH Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: FOOD SNACKS. FIRST USE: 19850827. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19851031 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Serial Number 73582500 Filing Date February 12, 1986 Owner (APPLICANT) P. J. FOODS, INC. CORPORATION TEXAS 8535 WEST BELLFORT HOUSTON TEXAS 77071 Attorney of Record WILLIAM C. NORVELL, JR. Description of Mark ON THE DRAWING, THE CROSS-HATCHING "=" IS FOR THE COLOR BLUE. LETTERS WITHOUT CROSS-HATCHING ARE OPTIONALLY RED OR GOLD Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date October 27, 1986 Typed DrawingWord Mark TEXAS TRASH Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: SNACK FOOD, NAMELY, A MIX CONSISTING OF CEREALS, PRETZELS, SESAME STICKS, SEEDS AND SPICES. FIRST USE: 19850820. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850927 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73567435 Filing Date November 7, 1985 Published for Opposition December 9, 1986 Registration Number 1511947 Registration Date November 8, 1988 Owner (REGISTRANT) LODGE, SUSAN C. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 8009 ANADELL STREET HOUSTON TEXAS 77055 Attorney of Record HARVEY B. JACOBSON Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TEXAS" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date May 15, 1995 From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Sat Apr 26 21:07:20 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:07:20 -0400 Subject: Information Architecture Argot Message-ID: A short list of information architecture argot: http://www.veen.com/jeff/archives/000110.html My favorite: Boil the Ocean v. Try to solve too many problems with an overambitious project, typically resulting in a complete failure. Many Content Management projects end up this way when attempting to port an entire organization's content, process, and workflow into one new, massive tool. "Look, just help the HR teams get their forms online. We don't need to boil the ocean with this." From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 00:33:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 20:33:38 -0400 Subject: Corn Dog (1929); Hot Dog Roll (1949) Message-ID: CORN DOG Here's the 1942 Texas State Fair "Corn Dog" Myth, as presented in the NEW YORK TIMES: Article 1 -- No Title; By PETER APPLEBOME, DALLAS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 12, 1983; pg. C3, 1 pgs: His idea was the corn dog, or Fletchers Original State Fair Corny Dog to be precise, a hot dog on a stick wrapped in cornbread that is as much a culinary tradition in Texas as scrapple is in Philadelphia or soft pretzels are in New York. When the State Fair of Texas, America's largest, opened last Friday, Mr. Fletcher was on hand to lord over six stands selling the creation he and his brother, Carl, invented 41 years ago. (...) After trying out a series of names ranging from K-9 and Brown Bomber to French Fried Hot Dog and Meal on a Stick, the Fletchers finally came up with a name and built a clientele. Unfortunately for the 1942 "corn dog" myth, I'd posted (see ADS-L archives) 1939 and 1941 "corn dogs" from these two ProQuest newspapers: 1. FLORIDA ON $30 A WEEK; A Modest Budget Allows for a Variety of Diversion in Winter Sunshine; By DORA BYRON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 7, 1941; pg. XX2, 1 pgs 2. A Woman's New York; Mary Steele, 5 Feet 10 Inches of Blonde, Successor to the Photogenic Frazier, Appears, Slightly Early, to Be 'Miss Glamor'; By Alice Hughes; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 29, 1939; pg. 9, 1 pgs I was going throught this wonderful book today (more on it later), and it looks like "corn dog" is even earlier. Maybe, now that I'm on good terms with the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council for solving the "hot dog," you'll see this information soon on their web site? 300 YEARS OF KITCHEN COLLECTIBLES new and greatly expanded third edition by Linda Campbell Franklin Florence, Alabama: Books Americana 1991 Pg. 235, col. 2: IV-180. (ILLUSTRATION--ed.) _Corn dog baker._ "'Krusty Korn Dog' baker, also sandwich roaster (grill) or steak fryer. A big money maker! For use on gas, gasoline, oil or coal stoves. 'Krusty Korn Dogs' are novel and delicious. The hot dog is baked inside the corn batter, which as it bakes, moulds itself to resemble an ear of corn 6 3/8"L and 1 1/2" diameter. Easy to make: Red hots are first fried in butter, then placed in 'korn dog' sections together with required amount of batter, they are then quickly and thoroughly baked together. Baker is made of cast iron, smooth japanned finish, with heavy, sturdy wire coil pan handles. Heavy lifting handles at each end." Frame is 2 1/2" x 10 1/4" x 21 1/4"; fryer pan is 3/4" deep x 8 1/2"H x 8 3/8". You bought the frame and a fry pan (griddle), and a pair of the "Krusty Korn Sausage Dog Pans," each of which made two, separately to suite your business. In Pick-Barth wholesale catalog of many makers' hotel and restaurant supplies, 1929. $40.00-$150.00 Pg. 272: IV-369. _"Hot Dog" patent._ This picture is from the June 1930 issue of Science & Invention, in their "Yankee Brains at Work" column about new inventions. This is Patent #1,742,945 issued to Peter S. Banff. "Relates to an electrical cooking device designed primarily for that type of sandwich termed 'hot dog.'"(...) (Just thought I'd add this one, too. A child eats a food product molded in the shape of a dog. Stick to animal crackers, kid--ed.) OCLC WorldCat showed no successful results, but there's a mention of the 1929 catalogue on Google Groups: From: MrOGee (mrogee at aol.com) Subject: FS:Restaurant catalog-1929 This is the only article in this thread View: Original Format Newsgroups: rec.antiques.marketplace Date: 1997/11/14 Albert Pick-Barth Co.-1929-Everything in Equipment Furnishings and Supplies for Hotels, Restaurants, Clubs and Institutions. Very good condition. E-mail MrOGee at AOL.Com --------------------------------------------------------------- HOT DOG ROLL When did supermarkets start selling the "hot dog roll" we all know and love? And why are hot dogs sold in differently numbered packs than hot dog rolls? I'll leave the latter question for Cecil Adams. 1. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 22, 1949; pg. 8, 1 pgs 2. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 30, 1949; pg. 7, 1 pgs 3. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 2, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 4. Display Ad 14 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 8, 1949; pg. 15, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 6. Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 8, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 1, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 8. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 18, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 9. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 11, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("We're proud to introduce to Safeway customers three new packaged rolls baked in the same modern bakery as the famous Mrs. Wright's Bread. Bun-Craft Hot Dog Rolls, CLub-Snak Sandwich Buns and Dinner-Quik Pan Rolls.") 10. Photo Standalone 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 17, 1942; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Two high school sorority inductees...roll hot dogs up Thirteenth Street hill...") 11. One More Week...; Mr. Frick and Mr. Harridge Speak; By Ben Dulaney.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 13, 1936; pg. X15, 1 pgs ("The other disagreeable fact that can be recorded in the races is that even on the first day of the spring season you can't get a fresh hot dog roll. They pack 'em away each year in burlap bags and save 'em like porch rockers.") 12. Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 26, 1934; pg. N16, 1 pgs ("FOOD ITEM--SENSATIONAL--BIG PROFITS selling 'Rights' to make HOLLOW hot dog rolls; royalty-commission basis; send stamp. House of Spaulding, Lowell, Mass.") 13. Hot Dog Roll, Derelict in Prague Gutter, Brings Lynching Threat to Callous Owner; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 30, 1930; pg. E3, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 13:37:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:37:07 EDT Subject: Cooking Tour(1960); Texas Toast(1961); Steak Sauce(1936); Grilling Sauce(1978) Message-ID: COOKING TOUR I had planned a cooking tour of Siciliy, leaving about a month from now. This is nearing the end of my world travels. These days, you can't go even to Toronto. "Cooking tour"--not to be confused with "Cook's Tour"--is not in OED? There are over 1,000 tempting Google hits. Display Ad 97 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 1, 1981; pg. C14, 1 pgs Classified Ad 205 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 25, 1981; pg. C20, 1 pgs Display Ad 110 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 11, 1981; pg. C17, 1 pgs Display Ad 85 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 4, 1981; pg. C12, 1 pgs On African Safari, She Bagged Native Recipes for Her Book; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 17, 1970; pg. 54, 1 pgs ("Their cooking tour took them through 'fantastic homes' in cities as well as to outdoor cooking in the bush.") Joan Fontaine; rivals the story tellers; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 27, 1960; pg. H3, 2 pgs ("One year I went on a cooking tour of the best restaurants in Europe.") --------------------------------------------------------------- TEXAS TOAST See past "Texas Toast" posts. Around the World in a Salad Bowl; COOKING CUES:; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 21, 1961; pg. C16, 1 pgs ("...along with colorful concoctions such as Ham Pops, Tipsy Cake, Texas Toast and Dulcet Cream." In RECIPES OF THE OLD SOUTH by Martha Meade.) --------------------------------------------------------------- SHRIMPBURGER Matt Lee and Ted Lee did a "shrimpburger" story on their native South Carolina for the NEW YORK TIMES, so I just wanted to check the databases. For their 2001 article, see: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20A11F73F540C728FDDA90994D9404 482 The latest DARE has no entry for "shrimp burger." OED has--well, it doesn't have it, either. See the ADS-L archives, where there's a very good Clementine Paddleford article from 1952. It states that the "shrimp burger" is from Florida, not the Carolinas. I found that cite when going through her columns the old-fashioned way, of hard work. Display Ad 175 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jun 16, 1977; pg. E20, 1 pgs Display Ad 195 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; May 19, 1977; pg. F22, 1 pgs Display Ad 186 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 26, 1976; pg. G6, 1 pgs Display Ad 167 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 25, 1976; pg. G2, 1 pgs Display Ad 174 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 11, 1976; pg. F5, 1 pgs Display Ad 178 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 11, 1976; pg. F6, 1 pgs News of Food; Abundant Supply of Chestnuts From Italy Cuts Price to 19 Cents, a Two-Year Low; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 8, 1952; pg. 32, 1 pgs ("Shrimp, the shell fish that Americans are npw said to consume in larger quantity than any other variety, are being presented in a new form, the Shrimpburger, product of the Shrimp Corporation of America.") --------------------------------------------------------------- FRUIT PIZZA The full text LOS ANGELES TIMES and CHICAGO TRIBUNE should have some interesting pizza articles, but I just checked the current databases for this and the following. From Creative Chefs, Odd Couples That Can Make Magic; Mix sweetness and spice? If it works, well, why not?; By BRYAN MILLER; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 2, 1994; pg. C1, 2 pgs Rising Above It All; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 6, 1986; pg. E1, 1 pgs ("Lisa Yockelson's Fruit Pizza" recipe.) New Year's Indulgences; New Year's Indulgences; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 28, 1983; pg. E1, 2 pgs ("1983 has been the Year of the Pizza: goat cheese pizza, spinach pizza, pizza with tomatoes fresh or died or not at all usher out the end of the year with an end-of-the meal pizza, a fruit pizza.") --------------------------------------------------------------- SPINACH PIZZA Again, I expect the LOS ANGELES TIMES and CHICAGO TRIBUNE to beat these. From the south to the north, exploring an old Chicago dream; B. F.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 16, 1995; pg. XX9, 1 pgs WHAT'S DOING IN Chicago; By ISABEL WILKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 1, 1994; pg. XX8, 1 pgs It's the time of year when cookie lovers can take heart All about fish, in 28 illustrated pages Yes, Virginia is for lovers (of food).; Florence Fabricant; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 7, 1990; pg. C7, 1 pgs THE REVIEWS; Carryout \; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 23, 1986; pg. SM12, 27 pgs New Year's Indulgences; New Year's Indulgences; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 28, 1983; pg. E1, 2 pgs (Same story as above--ed.) They Take Pride in the City That Works; Chicago; By Sandra Bailey; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 27, 1983; pg. E1, 2 pgs New toppings -- sometimes without tomatoes -- new crusts and even new shapes.; The Pizza Trend in America: Upward and Onward; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 16, 1983; pg. C1, 2 pgs ("Pizzapiazza Deep Dish Spinach Pizza" recipe.) --------------------------------------------------------------- STEAK SAUCE Want to know how bad the OED is on food? Really want to know? Gather round. Get your online OED out and type in "steak sauce." There's one hit for "steak sauce." "Steak sauce" is mentioned in an entry posted just last month, in March 2003. It's under "Weblog." Just pitiful. . Soybean Dinner From Soup to Nuts; By Given Riggle; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 25, 1943; pg. S8, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 15, 1943; pg. 5, 1 pgs Ringside Table; With Mary Harris; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 19, 1942; pg. 19, 1 pgs Ringside Table; With Mary Harris; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1942; pg. 17, 1 pgs VICTUALS AND VITAMINS; By KILEY TAYLOR; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 13, 1940; pg. 111, 1 pgs A 'GOLDEN CITY' AWAITS EXPOSITION HOSTS; SAN FRANCISCO DRESSES UP FOR VISITORS TO HER BIG FAIR; By TOM WHITE, Californians, Inc., Tom White, Yosemite National Park, and Charles Phelps Cushing; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 22, 1939; pg. 127, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 9, 1936; pg. X7, 1 pgs Display Ad 20 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 29, 1936; pg. 18, 1 pgs Beef Extract Held to Add Zest to Food; Makes Even Ordinary Dish Fit Palate of the Epicure.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 8, 1936; pg. 11, 1 pgs: _Steak Sauce._ 2 tablespoons butter 1/2 tablespoon liquid beef extract 1/2 tablespoon chopped parsley Soften the butter, add the beef extract and chopped parsley and allow to melt on broiled chops or steaks. Word Mark THE A1 INTERNATIONAL SAUCE Goods and Services IC 029. US 046. G & S: SAUCES [ OR RELISHES ] FOR USE WITH FOOD. FIRST USE: 18620000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1862000 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 261101 Serial Number 70026824 Filing Date June 1, 1895 Registration Number 0026824 Registration Date July 16, 1895 Owner (REGISTRANT) BRAND & CO. DENCE, THOMAS AND MASON, JOHN JAMES, BOTH CITIZENS OF ENGLAND FIRM ENGLAND 11 LITTLE STANHOPE ST., LONDON ENGLAND(LAST LISTED OWNER) DEL MONTE CORPORATION CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF NEW YORK ONE MARKET PLAZA SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA 94105 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 12C. SECT 15. Renewal 4TH RENEWAL 19851015 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE --------------------------------------------------------------- GRILLING SAUCE Not in OED. You're shocked. Why call your product a "steak sauce" when, with "grilling sauce," you can include chicken and fish? Display Ad 32 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 21, 1997; pg. C8, 1 pgs Display Ad 28 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 22, 1996; pg. C8, 1 pgs Fancy This, Fancy That; Trade show tidbits, from oils to ostrich. Fancy This, Fancy That: Tidbits at an Exposition ; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 12, 1995; pg. C1, 2 pgs Display Ad 45 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 29, 1994; pg. C24, 1 pgs Cranberry Ketchup And Other Surprises; FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 10, 1991; pg. C6, 1 pgs Summer Menus: Light Soup Heavy Reliance on the Grill; THE PURPOSEFUL COOK; By JACQUES PEPIN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 10, 1991; pg. C1, 2 pgs Tips for Barbecuing and Sauces to Go With Them; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 23, 1982; pg. 582, 1 pgs ("Yogurt Marinade and Grilling Sauce" recipe.) Naturally; By Sharon Cadwallader; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 14, 1980; pg. E16, 1 pgs Typed DrawingWord Mark ADOLPH'S KITCHEN GRILLING SAUCE Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: BARBECUE SAUCE. FIRST USE: 19780117. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19780117 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73159198 Filing Date February 21, 1978 Registration Number 1116147 Registration Date April 3, 1979 Owner (REGISTRANT) ADOLPH'S LTD. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 33 BENEDICT PLACE GREENWICH CONNECTICUT 06830 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 0979551;1064024;1081948;AND OTHERS Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "GRILLING SAUCE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date October 10, 1985 Typed DrawingWord Mark SAN-J SJ GRILLING SAUCE Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: seasoning sauces. FIRST USE: 19950400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950400 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74611962 Filing Date December 15, 1994 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition October 10, 1995 Registration Number 2072246 Registration Date June 17, 1997 Owner (REGISTRANT) San-J International, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 2880 Sprouse Drive Richmond VIRGINIA 23231 Attorney of Record Anthony F. Vittone Prior Registrations 1615947 Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "GRILLING SAUCE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 14:12:57 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:12:57 EDT Subject: Egg Timer (1882) and American Periodical Series Message-ID: OED has 1884 for "egg timer." Again, some caution should be used, as the product didn't always go by this name. 300 YEARS FO KITCHEN COLLECTIBLES new and greatly expanded third edition by Linda Campbell Franklin Florence, Alabama: Books Americana 1991 Pg. 311: V-5. _Egg Timers._ At first glance, these appear identical. Both are obviously plaid, probably Mauchlin ware. (L) Called an "egg glass," in "Scotch Wood," glass bulb. >From 1870s-80s F. A. Walker catalog. V-7. _Egg timers._ Also called in latter years "telephone timers," to hang on kitchen wall. V-9. _Egg timer._ This was found in the 2/1882 _American Agriculturist_. "A short while ago we (the editor) visited Messrs. Baldwin & Co., Murray Street (NYC), for novelties. Among other things...is the Signal Egg-timer. In this the sand-glass is suspended in a frame;...and when sufficient sand has run into the lower part of the glass, its weight turns the glass and the hammer, shown at the top, falls down and strikes the bell below, informing the cook that the time is up. Below is a wedge-shaped counterpoise; by moving this, the alarm will be given at the end of two, three, or four minutes." _$45.00-$65.00_ AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES--The AMERICAN AGRICULTURIST is in the AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES, but I didn't see this citation. Why? ProQuest hasn't finished APS ONLINE, that's why. In the six months since I've been using it, I haven't noticed many additions. Still no PUCK. Still no SPIRIT OF THE TIMES. Tremendous, essential American periodicals of the nineteenth century. An invaluable record of American fruits and vegetables. So, a few weeks ago, I e-mailed ProQuest, telling them how wonderful the product is, and asking when it would be finished. The question was not a stumper. No one has replied. From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Sun Apr 27 14:29:08 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:29:08 -0400 Subject: "I Scream for Ice Cream" Song In-Reply-To: <17a.19db36b5.2bdd3f69@aol.com> Message-ID: Billy Moll published a song in 1927 entitled "I Scream, You Scream, We All Scream for Ice Cream." I know there have been a lot of postings on ADS-L in the past about "I scream" and "ice cream," but can Barry Popik or George Thompson or someone clarify for me whether this song was the origin of the phrase in its title (as opposed to collocations of "I scream" and "ice cream" that are not specifically that phrase). Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 21:37:44 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:37:44 EDT Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another mailing list: Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a librarian & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while before ending up in Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume florilegium (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European countries). One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) Auteur: Gruterus , Janus Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. Syri ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, item Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius Jaar: 1610 - Jim Landau From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Sun Apr 27 21:50:33 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:50:33 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: Interesting. But there is a subtle, if strident, difference. A garden without grass is a good, well-kept garden without weeds; there is a relationship between garden and grass, if a negative one. A fish without a bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is another matter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. Landau" To: Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "James A. Landau" > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > mailing list: > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a librarian > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while before > ending up in > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume florilegium > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > countries). > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. Syri > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, item > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > Jaar: 1610 > > > - Jim Landau > From RASpears.pipo at XEMAPS.COM Sun Apr 27 22:19:14 2003 From: RASpears.pipo at XEMAPS.COM (Richard A. Spears) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:19:14 -0500 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: Except it's British where garden = (American) yard. Grass is great in yards. RAS > > Interesting. But there is a subtle, if strident, difference. A garden > without grass is a good, well-kept garden without weeds; there is a > relationship between garden and grass, if a negative one. A fish without a > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is > another matter. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. Landau" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > header ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > ----- > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > > mailing list: > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a > librarian > > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while > before > > ending up in > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume > florilegium > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > > countries). > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. > Syri > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, > item > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Sun Apr 27 22:56:29 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:56:29 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: Aha! Then that makes the two completely opposite in meaning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Spears" To: Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 6:19 PM Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "Richard A. Spears" > Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > Except it's British where garden = (American) yard. > Grass is great in yards. > > RAS > > > > > > > > Interesting. But there is a subtle, if strident, > difference. A garden > > without grass is a good, well-kept garden without weeds; > there is a > > relationship between garden and grass, if a negative one. > A fish without a > > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should > be. A fish has no > > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, > but the difference > > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden > with grass is > > another matter. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "James A. Landau" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > > header ----------------------- > > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > ----- > > > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern > proverb on another > > > mailing list: > > > > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting > character: a > > librarian > > > & philologist, he lived in exile in > [Elizabethan ]England for a while > > before > > > ending up in > > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a > 3-volume > > florilegium > > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from > various European > > > countries). > > > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without > a man is like a > > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely > to find this as > > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac > editum; necnon P. > > Syri > > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae > paroemiaeque Graecorum, > > item > > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, > Hispanica > > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > > > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 00:34:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:34:06 -0400 Subject: Mixed Nuts(1880); Steak Sauce(1902); Pink Vodka Sauce(1988); Stone Soup Message-ID: MIXED NUTS Of interested to the peanut and cashew people out there, plus assorted crazies. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 7, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 6, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 27, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 24, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("6 lbs. Choice Mixed Nuts (all new) for...$1.00") --------------------------------------------------------------- STEAK SAUCE 20 July 1902, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 28: Harvey Sauce...............29c C. & B. Beef Steak Sauce...27c --------------------------------------------------------------- PINK VODKA SAUCE Google has 664 hits for "pink vodka sauce." It's served with penne pasta. Not many hits in ProQuest, though. Los Angeles and Chicago surely have earlier. Personal-Size Pizza in Briarcliff Manor; By M.H. REED, BRIARCLIFF MANOR; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 21, 1999; pg. 646, 1 pgs A Song in the Air, and Pizza on the Menu; WENDY GINSBERG; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 20, 1998; pg. NJ26, 1 pgs Princeton: A Wilsonian Reminder; By ANNE SEMMES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 28, 1988; pg. 692, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- STONE SOUP Not in OED. There are 53,700 "stone soup" hits on Google. It's perhaps more a culinary yarn than an actual soup, but it gets cited and offered on (ironic?) menus somewhat often. It has a proverbial meaning that should be recorded by OED. 18 May 1872, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Like the Frenchman's stone soup, the stones didn't cost much, but the vermicelli and other ingredients did. He could make stone soup cost as much as turtle soup. 29 March 1896, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 23: When P. I. Sceysmah, whom, it may be explained, his fellow citizens esteemed to be stingier than stone soup,... TRY THIS ON YOUR NEXT MENU.; "Synthetic Soup" Eliminates Meat From the First Dinner Course.; From the Cleveland Plain Dealer.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 9, 1917; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("They insisted upon tasting the 'stone soup,' and pronounced it good.") (GOOGLE GROUPS) From: J&J (skiea3b at earthlink.net) Subject: OT-Stone Soup View: Complete Thread (24 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.arts.mystery Date: 2000-11-19 15:01:33 PST Either posts just are not showing up on my server or everyone has gone away for the weekend. I'm bored and... It's cold outside. I have a stone. I'm going to make some soup. Now, this soup will be good with just this tasty stone. But it would be even better if I had a little something more to put in it. Anyone? judi THE STONE SOUP STORY Once upon a time, somewhere in Eastern Europe, there was a great famine. People jealously hoarded whatever food they could find, hiding it even from their friends and neighbors. One day a peddler drove his wagon into a village, sold a few of his wares and began asking questions as if he planned to stay for the night. "There's not a bite to eat in the whole province" he was told. "Better keep moving on." "Oh, I have everything I need" he said. "In fact I was thinking of making some stone soup to share with all of you." He pulled a huge iron cauldron from his wagon, filled it with water and built a fire under it. Then, with great ceremony, he drew an ordinary looking stone from a velvet bag and dropped it into the water. By now, hearing the rumor of food, most of the villagers had come to the square or watched from their doorways and windows. As the peddler sniffed the 'broth' and licked his lips in anticipation, hunger began to overcome their skepticism. "Ahh," the peddler said to himself rather loudly, "I do like a tasty stone soup. Of course stone soup with cabbage, now that's hard to beat." Soon a villager approached hesitantly holding a cabbage he'd retrieved from its hiding place and added it to the pot. "Capital!" cried the peddler. "You know, I once had stone soup with cabbage and a bit of salt beef as well and it was fit for a king." The village butcher managed to find some salt beef...and so it went, through potatos, onions, carrots, mushrooms, barley and so on, until there was indeed a delicious meal for all. The villagers offered the peddler a great deal of money for the magic stone but he refused to sell it and travelled on the next day. And from that time on, long after the famine had ended, the villagers reminisced about the finest soup they'd ever had. --Traditional Folklore (TRADEMARKS) 1 76487571 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 2 76075846 2596936 STONE SOUP SEMINARS TARR LIVE 3 75871012 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 4 75719649 2474962 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 5 75615141 2405264 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 6 75536220 2261197 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 7 75427208 STONE SOUP TARR DEAD 8 75203718 STONE SOUP FOR THE SOUL TARR DEAD 9 75074165 2078127 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 10 74302603 STONE SOUP TARR DEAD 11 74240005 THE STONE SOUP COOKBOOK FOR HARD TIMES TARR DEAD 12 74074356 STONESOUP TARR DEAD 13 73332152 1219952 STONE SOUP: THE NEIGHBORHOOD PARTNERSHIP REPORT TARR LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 01:03:42 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:03:42 -0400 Subject: Maine Potato Candy (1994) Message-ID: http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/bldes133.htm http://www.thefunplace.com/recipes/00337.html http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22potato+candy%22+and+Maine&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=00bf01c2ff73%248a7a7bc0%24c993520c%40att.net&rnum=2 Not a single hit in the NEW YORK TIMES or WASHINGTON POST? These are from the Dow Jones news database. LIFESTYLE / FOOD POTATO POWER HOLD THE BUTTER AND FORGET THOSE HALF-BAKED NOTIONS By Rosemary Black, Food Editor 11/13/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey b01 (...) Potatoes can be used in desserts for results as gratifying as a moist, rich chocolate potato cake; light, sugar-dusted potato doughnuts; and jelly-topped, currant-studded potato tarts. One specialty in the South, potato candy, combines mashed potatoes with confectioners' sugar, peanut butter, and vanilla extract. Katie's Homemade Hand-Dipped Chocolates - Maine Potato Candy; Homemade Hand-Dipped Chocolates - Cobscook Camp Coffee Cremes; Homemade Hand-Dipped Chocolates - Maine Black Bear Paws MANUFACTURER: Katie's CATEGORY: Chocolate Candies 03/28/1994 Product Alert Market Intelligence Service, Ltd Maine Potato Candy, Cobscook Camp Coffee Cremes and Maine Black Bear Paws are three Homemade, Hand-Dipped Chocolates marketed under the Katie's brand name. Using only the freshest ingredients, each batch is said to be made from scratch assuring customers "gourmet quality, genuinely homemade chocolates." Katie's of Robbinston, ME, sells these products in 8 oz. boxes with window displays for viewing the contents. To check the availability and cost of purchasing a sample of this product contact: Marketing Intelligence Service, Ltd., (716) 374-6326. The County Fair Cookbook; Yankee Johnnycakes, Tater Pigs, Shoofly Pie, and 200 More Recipes From America's Best Country Cooks._(book reviews) 06/27/1994 Publishers Weekly 72 Lyn Stallworth and Rod Kennedy Jr. Hyperion, $27.95 (368p) ISBN 0-7868-60146 Stallworth and Kennedy, coauthors of The Brooklyn Cookbook, here survey rural America and Canada for unassumingly colorful regional foods associated with county fairs. That means Ethel Waddle's cream cheese pound cake is served up in Springfield, Ohio's Clark County Fair; apricot butter at the Big Fresno Fair in Fresno, Calif.; pickles in St. Paul, Minn., at the Minnesota State Fair; and, unlikely though it may sound, potato candy at Presque Isle's Northern Maine Fair. Food Two unusual recipes a hit with friends 02/08/2001 The Baton Rouge Advocate 4-F Jane Williams, an Advocate switchboard operator, loves to make unusual recipes. Two of her recent discoveries are sweets recipes for Maine Potato Candy and Beer Cake. Williams, a diabetic, can't eat lots of sweets so her friends, co-workers and family have enjoyed eating generous amounts of these two dishes. They rave about the candy, she says. The candy tastes similar to a chocolate-covered coconut candy bar. The Beer Cake is a moist dark spice cake. Here are the recipes: MAINE POTATO CANDY 4cups confectioners' sugar 4cups flaked coconut 3/4cup cold, plain potatoes, mashed (do not use leftover mashed potatoes made with milk or butter) 1 1/2tsps. vanilla extract 1/2tsp. salt1lb. dark candy coating 1cup semisweet chocolate chips 1.In a large bowl, combine the first five ingredients.2.Line a 9-inch square pan with foil; butter the foil. Spread coconut mixture into pan. Cover and chill overnight.3.Cut into 2x1-inch rectangles. Cover and freeze.4.In a microwave or double boiler, melt candy coating and chocolate chips. Dip bars in melted coating and chocolate chips; place on waxed paper to harden. Store in an airtight container.Makes 2 pounds. Taste of Home magazine BEER CAKE 2cups brown sugar 2cups dates, chopped 2eggs 1cup solid shortening 1tsp. cinnamon 1/2tsp. allspice 1/2tsp. ground cloves 3cups flour 2cups beer 2tsps. baking soda 1/2tsp. salt 1.Cream sugar and shortening; add eggs one at a time, beating well after each.2.Sift flour, salt, baking soda and spices, add to creamed mixture alternately with beer.3.Pour batter into greased and floured tube pan. Bake at 350 degrees for 1 hour and 15 minutes. Test for doneness. "Pots, Pans and Pioneers" (GOOGLE GROUPS) From: di2 at delphi.com (DI2 at DELPHI.COM@racebbs.com) Subject: Re: REQUEST: Potato Candy View: Complete Thread (8 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking Date: 1994-11-04 11:35:57 PST Here are a few more potato candy recipes. In Maine, we made these without the cinnamon, spread the mix in a pan and refrigerated, cut in squares and dipped them in melted chocolate-parafin mixture. Called them Needhams. Yummy! Irish Potato Candy 1/4 lb softened sweet butter 1 lb. confectioner's sugar 1/2 large bag of coconut 1 Tablespoon vanilla 3 Tablespoons milk cinnamon Mix all the ingredients together except for the cinnamon. Roll into balls. Refrigerate for 1 hour. Shake balls in a baggie with a little cinnamon. Store in a covered container in the refrigerator (...) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 03:35:04 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:35:04 -0400 Subject: Specialty Sandwich(1949); Signature Sandwich(1976); Multipot(1984) Message-ID: OT: DATABASES I sent my American Periodical Series query to the ProQuest Historical Newspapers guy. He's not the right ProQuest guy, but he answered me right away and forwarded my message to someone else at the company. I should have an answer about APS ONLINE soon. I checked at Columbia just now, and its "ProQuest Historical Newspapers" has the NEW YORK TIMES, WALL STREET JOURNAL, and now WASHINGTON POST and CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR. Since NYU doesn't have APS ONLINE or ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES or LITERATURE ONLINE, Columbia is my library of choice. The New York Public Library has added HERITAGE QUEST (from ProQuest/Chadwyck-Healey, for the genealogy buffs). It has some strange stuff on it, such as Scudder Middleton's WINING AND DINING IN NEW YORK (1938) that I'd looked at. H.Q. has census records. The NYPL can't afford DOW JONES/FACTIVA and has dropped it along with other databases, such as NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES. There's little reason or pleasure to go to the NYPL anymore. The databases aren't the best, worse than both university libraries. All the books are offsite in New Jersey--if they can locate books at all. It's closed on Sunday and Monday, and the remaining hours are crummy, too. I used to resent the constant photo-taking and tour groups passing through, but they can have the NYPL. I don't need it anymore. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SPECIALTY SANDWICH I ran "specialty sandwich" and "signature sandwich" through the databases. Classified Ad 17 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1965; pg. 91, 1 pgs Eating-Out Boom Tied to Proprietors' Ingenuity at 'Fixing Up'; Take-Home Meals Styled To Satisfy TV Viewers; By Bernice Stevens Decker Special to The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; May 3, 1957; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 120 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 28, 1949; pg. S7, 1 pgs Display Ad 41 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 23, 1949; pg. 46, 1 pgs ("BOARDWALK specialty sandwich shoppe...") ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SIGNATURE SANDWICH A Quaint Village Doesn't Have to Love a Vacationing President to Feed Him; NEW YORK STATE; By JODI WILGOREN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 22, 1999; pg. 35, 2 pgs Manhattan has joined the national trend, and competition has raised rents.; Commercial Property/Coffee Bars; By CLAUDIA H. DEUTSCH; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 6, 1994; pg. R1, 2 pgs Using Blimpie As a Base; Thinking Big: Using Blimpie As a Base; By William Rice; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 5, 1976; pg. F1, 2 pgs ("The American Cafe, the signature sandwich, is roast beef served on a fresh croissant.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------- MULTIPOT This is sold at Williams-Sonoma. It's the matreshka doll of cookery. Here's a trademark. Word Mark MULTIPOT Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 011. US 021. G & S: Electric Cookers for Domestic Use. FIRST USE: 19840911. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19840911 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73505343 Filing Date October 24, 1984 Published for Opposition March 26, 1985 Registration Number 1339102 Registration Date June 4, 1985 Owner (REGISTRANT) Meyer Corporation, U.S. CORPORATION DELAWARE 4300 W. Brown Deer Rd. Milwaukee WISCONSIN 53223 Attorney of Record Allan B. Wheeler Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date November 22, 1991 -------------------------------------------------------------- ESCARGOT PAN, TONGS, FORK I'll throw in some snails at the end of this post. Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 21, 1963; pg. A2, 1 pgs ("The Escargot pan (1.00), the Escargot tongs (1.69), the Escargot fork (.89)..." at the Old Georgia Coffee House.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 04:53:23 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:53:23 -0400 Subject: Quick-and-Dirty (1910); Pulled Candy (1890); Pudding Time (1835) Message-ID: QUICK_AND_DIRTY DARE has 1942's Berrey-Van den Bark work for "quick-and-dirty," a "greasy spoon." Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 6, 1943; pg. 4, 1 pgs The Post Impressionist; On The Hoof; STRICKLAND GILLILAN.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 13, 1939; pg. 14, 1 pgs Fair Enough; Breaking Down Morale; By Westbrook Pegler; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 7, 1939; pg. 9, 1 pgs No End Of Books; Sketches and Tales by John O'Hara, Our O. Henry Decked Out With All Modern Improvements.; By Theodore Hall.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 21, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs HUNGRY, HIRED, JAILED, FIRED; Eleven-Year-old Hobo Travels 1,000 Miles Before He Is Caught.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 31, 1910; pg. ES4, 1 pgs ("Written in epigrammatic style and relating realistically the whole gamut of tramp life experience, from eating 'hand-out' chicken dinners to being a dishwasher in a 'quick-and-dirty' restaurant, Joseph Taylor, aged 11 years. formerly of Braddock, but now of nowhere and everywhere, has contributed a masterpiece to American literature of youth." Was THE DIMINUTIVE DIARY OF THE BOY HOBO published and read by the HDAS?--ed.). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PULLED CANDY DARE has this from 1965? Why is there such a time difference from "candy pull" to "pulled candy"? Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Nov 21, 1908; Vol. Vol. XCIX., Iss. 0 Of General Interest.; pg. 361, 1 pgs ("This process is designed to impart to pulled candy a peculiar consistency...") Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 17, 1902; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 11, 1901; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 9, 1900; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 23, 1900; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 23, 1900; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 9, 1900; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 5, 1900; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Cocoanut Puff--just freshly grated cocoanut wrapped in jackets of pulled candy.") CLARA MORRIS IN 1862; Her Joys and Sorrows in Ohio When but Twelve Years Old.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 16, 1890; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("Went to Mr. Henry's and pulled candy.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------- PUDDING TIME DARE has an 1834 citation, from a work in 1839. July, 1835 THE LADY'S BOOK Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Volume XI Page 17 (...) "I shud" - was pronounced with emphatic brevity; and the neck of the unhappy biped was twisted every way but that which fashion or custom prescribes and calls the way. Maria guessed as much; and I admired the strong good sense and presence of mind which prevented her from fretting, or standing on trifles in such an emergency. She was like Napoleon giving his commands to the surgeon accoucheur of Marie Louise. "Treat my golden pheasant as if it were but an ordinary barn-door fowl," Mrs. Roberts's silence seemed to say. "And never fear," replied Biddy," I'll have him in in << pudding-time>> , I warrant me - the pisant and the sowles, ma'am first - a'n't that it?" From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Apr 28 03:34:10 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:34:10 -0400 Subject: probable and suspect cases Message-ID: I was wondering whether if I cough in public I am a suspect or probable case of SARS. Reports like the following are heard in the media all day: "As of 14 April 2003, Health Canada has received reports of approximately 287 cases of SARS (103 probable and 184 suspect cases) in Canada. ... " Everyone knows the meaning of the two words in isolation, but in this specific context, how does the CDC or the doctors distinguish between the two? Does one become a probable case first and then a suspect if more symptoms are manifested or is it the other way around? Or are suspect and probable cases free-standing entities? (I forgot to ask my doctor when I saw him last. Anyone got any idea?) This is probably a safe conjecture, namely, if you returned to the U.S. from Toronto, you are a probable case, but if you cough while admitting it, you are a suspect. Just thinking aloud after some googling! T.M.P. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 05:24:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 01:24:55 -0400 Subject: Raw-Fried Potatoes (1888, 1943) Message-ID: Last DARE food antedating tonight. The latest DARE has 1948 for "raw-fried potatoes." There is a large gap in these two cites. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 15, 1943; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Raw-Fried Potatoes: Thinly slice peeled potatoes crosswise and pan-fry in generous amount of shortening in covered frying pan" in Safeway ad.) GEN. BENJ. F. BUTLER'S APPETITE.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 1, 1888; pg. 11, 1 pgs ("I remember the first time he came here he ordered two porterhouse steaks, a dozen fried eggs, with fried onions, raw fried potatoes and pancakes to suit.") From rtroike at U.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Apr 28 08:47:00 2003 From: rtroike at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudolph C Troike) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 01:47:00 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: Awhile back I accidentally happened to catch a segment of an animal program on TV while channel-surfing, and was surprised to hear the narrator, who sounded possibly like a New Zealander, pronounce both "death" and "dead" with /iy/, the vowel of "see". I hadn't heard this before, and wonder if anyone might be familiar with the program (which seemed to be a "regular" on the channel) or would know otherwise where this pronunciation is current. (It's not surprising in itself, given the fate of other "ea" words, and the alternation in "deaf", but I had not heard it before.) Thanks, Rudy From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Mon Apr 28 11:33:10 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:33:10 -0400 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Rudy, In NZ English all /E/ vowels (the vowel of "bet") raise to /I/ (the vowel of "hit"), not just the ones before nasals, like in Standard American English. It was cool to hear "Dennis" pronounced correctly while I was there, but puzzling to hear someone ask if I was "riddy" (i.e., "ready"). The /I/ is relatively tenser than ours and could leave you thinking you heard an /iy/. dInIs >Awhile back I accidentally happened to catch a segment of an animal >program on TV while channel-surfing, and was surprised to hear the >narrator, who sounded possibly like a New Zealander, pronounce both >"death" and "dead" with /iy/, the vowel of "see". I hadn't heard this >before, and wonder if anyone might be familiar with the program (which >seemed to be a "regular" on the channel) or would know otherwise where >this pronunciation is current. (It's not surprising in itself, given the >fate of other "ea" words, and the alternation in "deaf", but I had not >heard it before.) > > Thanks, > > Rudy -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Mon Apr 28 13:51:59 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:51:59 -0400 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: D.L. Sayers, somewhere among her books and stories featuring Peter Death Bredon Wimsey, says Death in this case is pronounced "deeth." I don't know how common a proper name it is in the UK. A. Murie From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Mon Apr 28 14:41:14 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb In-Reply-To: <005a01c30d07$078c1920$6401a8c0@BADGIRL> Message-ID: I happened to attend a conference on activism a couple of years ago at which Gloria Steinem was the keynote speaker. In the course of her talk, she stated quite emphatically (in what was pretty clearly a refutation of the notion she encouraged anti-male feelings) that she was not the coiner of "a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." I can't recall whether she identified the actual coiner the quotable quote, but I do remember her saying that it originated as a play upon the expression "God needs man like a fish needs a bicycle" (or perhaps it was the other way around -- I'm not sure). Joanne Despres Merriam-Webster, Inc. On 27 Apr 2003, at 17:50, Mary Jane wrote: A fish without a > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is > another matter. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. Landau" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > header ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > > mailing list: > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a > librarian > > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while > before > > ending up in > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume > florilegium > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > > countries). > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. > Syri > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, > item > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Mon Apr 28 14:41:14 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb In-Reply-To: <005a01c30d07$078c1920$6401a8c0@BADGIRL> Message-ID: On 27 Apr 2003, at 17:50, Mary Jane wrote: A fish without a > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is > another matter. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. Landau" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > header ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > > mailing list: > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a > librarian > > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while > before > > ending up in > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume > florilegium > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > > countries). > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. > Syri > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, > item > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > From dave at WILTON.NET Mon Apr 28 15:00:30 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:00:30 -0700 Subject: probable and suspect cases In-Reply-To: <006201c30d37$1686c800$a624e440@co611769a> Message-ID: > Everyone knows the meaning of the two words in isolation, but > in this specific context, how does the CDC or the doctors > distinguish between the two? Does one become a probable case > first and then a suspect if more symptoms are manifested or > is it the other way around? Or are suspect and probable cases > free-standing entities? (I forgot to ask my doctor when I saw > him last. Anyone got any idea?) A probable case is more likely to actually be the disease in question than a suspect case. In terms of SARS, the WHO definitions of "suspect case" and "probable case" are as follows: "Suspect case 1. A person presenting after 1 November 2002 with history of: - high fever (>38 °C) AND - cough or breathing difficulty AND one or more of the following exposures during the 10 days prior to onset of symptoms: - close contact with a person who is a suspect or probable case of SARS; - history of travel, to an affected area - residing in an affected area "2. A person with an unexplained acute respiratory illness resulting in death after 1 November 2002, 1 but on whom no autopsy has been performed AND one or more of the following exposures during to 10 days prior to onset of symptoms: - close contact,2 with a person who is a suspect or probable case of SARS; - history of travel to an affected area - residing in an affected area "Probable case 1. A suspect case with radiographic evidence of infiltrates consistent with pneumonia or respiratory distress syndrome (RDS) on chest X-ray (CXR). 2. A suspect case with autopsy findings consistent with the pathology of RDS without an identifiable cause." From: http://www.who.int/csr/sars/casedefinition/en/ From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Mon Apr 28 15:11:46 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:11:46 -0700 Subject: probable and suspect cases In-Reply-To: <006201c30d37$1686c800$a624e440@co611769a> Message-ID: there's an article today about a foreign tourist who arrived in New York City early this month with a guidebook in hand and Knicks tickets in his pocket. But he did not use either because he also arrived with a suspected case of SARS and spent virtually his entire vacation involuntarily detained in a hospital. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/28/nyregion/28INFE.html?th the following excerpt may answer your question: However, there was no way for doctors to know with certainty whether the man had SARS or some other type of respiratory illness because there is no test for SARS. All that doctors can rely on is the definition of a SARS case. The C.D.C. in Atlanta has created two definitions. The one for a suspected SARS case does not include pneumonia. But the C.D.C. defines a probable SARS case as including pneumonia to comply with the World Health Organization's definition. The federal agency developed the broader classification because it does not want to miss any possible SARS case in this country. Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Thomas M. Paikeday Sent: April 27, 2003 8:34 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: probable and suspect cases I was wondering whether if I cough in public I am a suspect or probable case of SARS. Reports like the following are heard in the media all day: "As of 14 April 2003, Health Canada has received reports of approximately 287 cases of SARS (103 probable and 184 suspect cases) in Canada. ... " Everyone knows the meaning of the two words in isolation, but in this specific context, how does the CDC or the doctors distinguish between the two? Does one become a probable case first and then a suspect if more symptoms are manifested or is it the other way around? Or are suspect and probable cases free-standing entities? (I forgot to ask my doctor when I saw him last. Anyone got any idea?) This is probably a safe conjecture, namely, if you returned to the U.S. from Toronto, you are a probable case, but if you cough while admitting it, you are a suspect. Just thinking aloud after some googling! T.M.P. From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Mon Apr 28 15:17:04 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:17:04 -0400 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dennis R. Preston said: >>Rudy, > >In NZ English all /E/ vowels (the vowel of "bet") raise to /I/ (the >vowel of "hit"), not just the ones before nasals, like in Standard >American English. It was cool to hear "Dennis" pronounced correctly >while I was there, but puzzling to hear someone ask if I was "riddy" >(i.e., "ready"). > >The /I/ is relatively tenser than ours and could leave you thinking >you heard an /iy/. Indeed. When my sister visited New Zealand a few years back, she came back with two caricature pronunciations: [iy]xcellent and y[iy]s. -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 16:05:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:05:30 -0400 Subject: Early American Newspapers & Evans Digital Message-ID: FYI, a response from the Readex people on Early American Newspapers and Evans Digital. Early American Newspapers is almost useless in microfilm form and without an index. You have to spend weeks and weeks and kill your eyes to find anything...The U.S. Congressional Serial Set is not a haven for "doughnuts" and "jonnycakes," so I'm not exactly pleased by their decision. --Barry Popik Subj: RE: Early American Newspapers in digital format? Date: 4/28/2003 10:46:52 AM Eastern Standard Time From: "Hornstra, Jim" To: "'Bapopik at aol.com'" Sent from the Internet (Details) Dear Mr. Popik, Management has not yet made a decision regarding a digital version of Early American Newspapers. However, following the highly favorable response to Evans Digital Edition (sixty-five institutions have chosen Evans Digital to date including Columbia University), management has decided that the next collection to be digitized will be the U.S. Congressional Serial Set (1817-1980), an important and enormous collection consisting of approximately 12 million pages. A description of the collection will be found at our web site at: http://www.readex.com/doccoll/serlset.html A demo of the Serial Set with a sample of 38 documents (some of which are incomplete) will be found at: http://infoweb.newsbank.com/?user=ncdserial When prompted please enter (case sensitive): username: ncdserial password: ncdset The Serial Set will be released in phases, beginning with the pre-Civil War Period, followed by the Civil War through the end of the 19th Century. Additional imprints from Evans Digital Edition are being released monthly, with completion scheduled for June 2004. As of the last update (March 2003), over 633,000 pages are available on-line. If you have any questions or need additional information, please contact me. Jim Hornstra Account Executive Readex Academic & Research Library Division NewsBank, Inc. (800) 762-8182 Fax: (239) 263-3004 jhornstra at newsbank.com Readex on the web: http://www.readex.com From self at TOWSE.COM Mon Apr 28 16:32:05 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:32:05 -0700 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: "Joanne M. Despres" wrote: > > I happened to attend a conference on activism a couple of > years ago at which Gloria Steinem was the keynote speaker. In the course > of her talk, she stated quite emphatically (in what was pretty > clearly a refutation of the notion she encouraged anti-male feelings) > that she was not the coiner of "a woman without a man is like a > fish without a bicycle." I can't recall whether she identified the > actual coiner the quotable quote, but I do remember her saying that > it originated as a play upon the expression "God needs man like a > fish needs a bicycle" (or perhaps it was the other way around -- I'm > not sure). "The letter below, from famed feminist Gloria Steinem, appeared in Time magazine sometime in September or October 2000. In your note on my new and happy marital partnership with David Bale, you credit me with the witticism 'A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.' In fact, Irina Dunn, a distinguished Australian educator, journalist and politician, coined the phrase back in 1970 when she was a student at the University of Sydney. She paraphrased the philosopher who said, "Man needs God like fish needs a bicycle." Dunn deserves credit for creating such a popular and durable spoof of the old idea that women need men more than vice versa." This site includes confirmation and explanation from Irina Dunn and another story of spontaneous and synchronous coinage. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 16:34:03 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:34:03 -0400 Subject: Windy City (7 October 1882) Message-ID: ACKNOWLEDGMENT: I would like to thank the New York Public Library, for its wise decision to reduce hours and stay closed on Mondays, and for some how losing all of its U.S. Department of Agriculture publications and once again making this trip to the Library of Congress necessary. --Barry Popik Yep, it's earlier in the Cincinnati Enquirer. But no matter what I find, always remember that "Windy City" was coined in 1893 during the World's Fair, just as the Chicago Historical Society says. 7 October 1882, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, pg. 2, col. 4: _OUCH!_ _Remarked the Chicagos Yesterday_ _Ya-ha! Yi Ki, Rip, Rah, Shouted the_ _Cincinnatis In Return._ _As They Fled Around the Bases, Greatly to_ _the Disgust of the Discomfited Leaguers._ _The Red-Legs--Rupped Goldsmith, the_ _White Legs Didn't White--Magnifi-_ _cent Fielding on Both Sides._ _We Will Try It Again To-day, and Will_ _Perhaps be Generous to the Chaps_ _From the Windy City--Per-_ _haps Not._ (...) All talk that the triumph was secured through the generosity of the chaps from the Windy City is buncombe of the worst sort. (...) From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Mon Apr 28 16:35:09 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:35:09 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1925 bytes Desc: not available URL: From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Mon Apr 28 16:44:10 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:44:10 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: a philosophical text > I was reading for my Honours year in English Literature > and Language in 1970. It was "A man needs God like a > fish needs a bicycle". [a question is begging....] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joanne M. Despres" To: Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "Joanne M. Despres" > Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > 0100,0100,0100Here is an account of Gloria Steinem's phrase history excerpted > from > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3255/herstory.htm > > >
Times New RomanA bit of herstory: > the definitive word on the origin!
> > The letter below, from famed feminist Gloria Steinem, appeared > in Time magazine sometime in September or October 2000. > > leftIn your note on my new and happy marital partnership > with David Bale, you credit me with the witticism 'A > woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.' In fact, > Irina Dunn, a distinguished Australian educator, > journalist and politician, coined the phrase back in 1970 > when she was a student at the University of Sydney. She > paraphrased the philosopher who said, "Man needs God > like fish needs a bicycle." Dunn deserves credit for > creating such a popular and durable spoof of the old > idea that women need men more than vice versa. > > leftGloria Steinem > > Irina Dunn has confirmed this story, in an e-mail of January 28, > 2002: > > leftYes, indeed, I am the one Gloria referred to. I was > paraphrasing from a phrase I read in a philosophical text > I was reading for my Honours year in English Literature > and Language in 1970. It was "A man needs God like a > fish needs a bicycle". My inspiration arose from being > involved in the renascent women's movement at the time, > and from being a bit if a smart-arse. I scribbled the > phrase on the backs of two toilet doors, would you > believe, one at Sydney University where I was a student, > and the other at Soren's Wine Bar at Woolloomooloo, a > seedy suburb in south Sydney. The doors, I have to > add, were already favoured graffiti sites. > > > > From JMB at STRADLEY.COM Mon Apr 28 17:36:00 2003 From: JMB at STRADLEY.COM (Baker, John) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:36:00 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: The identity of the ungodly philosopher seems lost to, if not history, then at least Google. Here's the most detailed online account, from http://archives.emazing.com/archives/womanday/2001-06-21: >>In 1970, Irina Dunn was an Honors English student at the University of Sydney. In one of her favorite classes there, "From the 1870s to the 1920s," taught by Professor Catherine Runcie, Dunn read: "Man needs God (or religion) like a fish needs a bicycle." << Or perhaps not. Here's a rival account, from http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/unknown.htm: >>Man needs God like a fish needs a bicycle. -- Men's-room graffito in a Berkeley, California bar during the late 1960s, quoted by Robert Anton Wilson in Cosmic Trigger. This was later bastardized by feminists to read: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" or something along those lines.<< John Baker -----Original Message----- From: Mary Jane [mailto:missmj at SWITCHB.COM] Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:44 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb a philosophical text > I was reading for my Honours year in English Literature > and Language in 1970. It was "A man needs God like a > fish needs a bicycle". [a question is begging....] From self at TOWSE.COM Mon Apr 28 18:19:58 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:19:58 -0700 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: "Baker, John" wrote: > > The identity of the ungodly philosopher seems lost to, if not history, then at least Google. Here's the most detailed online account, from http://archives.emazing.com/archives/womanday/2001-06-21: > > >>In 1970, Irina Dunn was an Honors English student at the University of Sydney. In one of her favorite classes there, "From the 1870s to the 1920s," taught by Professor Catherine Runcie, Dunn read: "Man needs God (or religion) like a fish needs a bicycle." << > > Or perhaps not. Here's a rival account, from http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/unknown.htm: > > >>Man needs God like a fish needs a bicycle. > -- Men's-room graffito in a Berkeley, California bar during the late 1960s, quoted by Robert Anton Wilson in Cosmic Trigger. This was later bastardized by feminists to read: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" or something along those lines.<< The references I've been finding are to a quote by Vique (whomsoever that may be) (who is called "Viques" in two places) -- "A man without a god is like a fish without a bicycle." alternatively stated as "A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle." search: man fish god|religion ... but where that quote came from or who Vique[s] is is a whole 'nother question. I am constantly reminded how "quotes" and "facts" can spread from Web site to Web site to Web site with little or no vetting by the webmeisters until they become common "knowledge." Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From slang at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK Mon Apr 28 18:40:58 2003 From: slang at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK (Jonathon Green) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:40:58 +0100 Subject: Fwd: newzak (how new?) Message-ID: In 1969 I was working on a London-based 'underground' newspaper called 'Friends' (formerly Rolling Stone UK before Jann Wenner pulled the plug - we were insufficiently respectful of rock stars - and, threatening a lawsuit, forbade us the name 'Friends of Rolling Stone'). We wrote the first issue in late November / early December 1969 and as News Editor I required a name to head up the news section: I came up with 'Newzak'. The paper appeared in late December or possibly very early January 1970. The heading lasted for the paper's life (I did not), which encompassed a couple of years of fortnightly issues. I was completely unaware of the Muggeridge use of a year or so earlier, although I was quite consciously parodying 'Muzak' (if the requisite mixture of sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll, plus the necessary 'revolution' can be seen as either parody or indeed news.) Jonathon Green From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Mon Apr 28 20:48:37 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:48:37 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: The short front vowels in Aus, NZ, and South African English are 'shifted,' but not always to the same thing. For example, Kiwis have a centralised /I/, sounding something like 'uh' to a North American or Aussie. Aussies, according to Kiwis, say 'ee' for /I/. So, the phrase 'fish and chips' is the shibboleth: feesh and cheeps in OZ and fush and chups in NZ. This also has given rise the the joke in OZ about the score of some sporting event: New Zealand sucks, Australia seven. In NZE there is also TRAP raising and no post-vocalic /r/ (yes, I know there is PV /r/ in some environments and dialects). The following anecdote illustrates the confusion that can arise when North Americans are hearing a Kiwi (from Gordon and Deverson _New Zealand English_ 1985 p.82: When the education specialist Ivan Illich was visiting New Zealand in 1979, he rang his friend's telephone number. The friend's daughter picked up the receiver and upon the request to speak to her fahter, told Mr. Illich "He's dead." Mr. Illich was surprised, but relieved, when his fried came to the phone. Of course, the girl was saying 'here's dad.' I did my dissertation on the formation and origins of southern hemisphere varieties of English. It was always fun to come across such anecdotes. Fritz Juengling >>> preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU 04/28/03 04:33AM >>> >Rudy, In NZ English all /E/ vowels (the vowel of "bet") raise to /I/ (the vowel of "hit"), not just the ones before nasals, like in Standard American English. It was cool to hear "Dennis" pronounced correctly while I was there, but puzzling to hear someone ask if I was "riddy" (i.e., "ready"). The /I/ is relatively tenser than ours and could leave you thinking you heard an /iy/. dInIs >Awhile back I accidentally happened to catch a segment of an animal >program on TV while channel-surfing, and was surprised to hear the >narrator, who sounded possibly like a New Zealander, pronounce both >"death" and "dead" with /iy/, the vowel of "see". I hadn't heard this >before, and wonder if anyone might be familiar with the program (which >seemed to be a "regular" on the channel) or would know otherwise where >this pronunciation is current. (It's not surprising in itself, given the >fate of other "ea" words, and the alternation in "deaf", but I had not >heard it before.) > > Thanks, > > Rudy -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 08:02:51 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:02:51 EDT Subject: Cincinnatta (1882); Windy City (September 11, 1882) Message-ID: Greetings from New York City, after four hours' sleep on the bus from the Library of Congress. I'll wade through my Dept. of Agriculture publications later. For now, I'll help out two cities. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- CINCINNATA DARE (vol. 1, pg. 2, under "-a" and not "Cincinnati") has 1884. It follows two entries on "Albana" and "Missoura." 5 April 1882, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, pg. 8, col. 2: _Unofficial Information._ (New York Sun.) Cincinnati people wish to hear the name pronounced "Cincin-nah-tee," not "Cincin-natta." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- WINDY CITY Earlier still. 11 September 1882, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, pg. 1, col. 2: _CHICAGO'S RECORD._ _Crimes of a Day In the Windy CIty._ From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 29 15:45:39 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:45:39 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: When I was growing up in Southern Illinois back in the middle ages, ie. during the '50s there used to be a joke pronunciation of the word deaf. Thus when someone might not understand what you had said you might reply, "Air you deef?" or "Is you deef?". It was probably a little bit archaic even at that time because I first remember hearing it from my grandfather who was born in 1888 but I also remember using it and occasionally hearing it from people who were of my grandfather's generation. I don't have any idea where it came from. Anyone know where it came from, comics, radio stars, hillbilly impersonators or whatever? Inquiring minds want to know. This brings up the problem with the last phrase I used. I have used it for years but have long since forgotten where it came from. Page Stephens From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 29 15:56:55 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:56:55 -0700 Subject: Australian pronunciation Message-ID: About 35 years ago I met a man who was in the government of as I recall New South Wales who told me a story. At that point in time as I recall the Aussie government was trying to clean up, ie. to make Aussie pronunciation closer to American or whatever. As a result his grandchildren were taught in school to pronounce their abc's more closely to US pronunciation. Well he was an old fashioned Aussie who pronounced them the way he always had, and his grandchildren got a kick out of it. They would ask him to say the abc's, and he would say, I, by, sigh, die, eye, etc. and his grandchildren would roll on the floor laughing. Page Stephens From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 16:43:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:43:12 EDT Subject: Jalapa Chili Pepper (1904); American History Cookbook (2003) Message-ID: JALAPA CHILE PEPPER U. S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY--BULLETIN No. 97 SEEDS AND PLANTS IMPORTED DURING THE PERIOD FROM DECEMBER, 1903, TO DECEMBER, 1905 Washington: Government Printing Office 1907 This is a huge, excellent work, one of several that I copied yesterday. This is probably as close to "jalapeno" as I'll get this early: Pg. 64: 11639. CAPSICUM ANNUUM. _Pepper._ From Jalapa, Vera Cruz, Mexico. Received thru Mr. Frank M. Meyer at the Plant Introduction Garden at Chico, Cal., June, 1904. _Yellow Chili._ "A handsome pepper, much sold in the market in Jalapa, bright showy yellow, quite pungent in taste." (_Meyer._) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- THE AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK by Mark H. Zenger Westport, CT: Greenwood Press 459 pages, paperback 2003 This just arrived. The author is a 20-year restaurant critic for the BOSTON PHOENIX, author of the AMERICAN ETHNIC COOKBOOK FOR STUDENTS (2001) and HOLIDAYS OF THE WORLD COOKBOOK FOR STUDENTS, and associate editor of something called the OXFORD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FOOD AND DRINK (forthcoming). There are very few illustrations. The item is presented, then a brief history introduction, then the recipe. There's an interesting ANNOTATED SELECT BIBLIOGRAPHY and a CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF RECIPES to close the book. Overall, it's OK. I don't know how much new information it adds. It's revealing to me what it doesn't have. If you just wanted the last 100 years of American food, Jean Anderson's AMERICAN CENTURY COOKBOOK is much more attractive and comprehensive. The author's next work is the AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK REFERENCE COMPANION, which sounds like a much more worthwhile project. The information is presented by theme, somewhat chronologically. There is no state-by-state index. Some choices are just bizarre. "Hot Dog" is not wrong here--because it just isn't here. "Tomato Ketchup" is given in 1848. Why? "It's hard to add anything to _Pure Ketchup_, Andrew Smith's 1996 study of the development of ketchup, but here is a ketchup recipe it doesn't have..." It's not explained that Smith doesn't have it because he already lists plenty of ketchup recipes from the early 1800s. So what's the big deal with a ketchup recipe in 1848 (from GODEY'S LADY'S BOOK, something that Zanger doesn't realize is available online)? 1975 gave us "Chicano Convict Guacamole." 1968 gave us "My Not So Famous S-O-S." These are dishes (and the book is filled with them) I wouldn't really think about--more important than the hot dog? 1941 gave us "Eggs Ferrer"--not one Google hit! 1930 gave us "Ginger Ale Soda"--the history of "ginger ale" is not mentioned. "Spanish Rice" is listed in 1932--not our earliest. "Baked Beans" is in 1829 and "Hardtack" is 1860s and "Refrigerator Cookies" is in 1937 and "Banana Smoothie" in 1947--I guess he can be forgiven for not knowing my work. "Mint Julep" is listed in 1930 (?), and the history of the drink is not explained. Overall, a pedestrian collection of recipes from various American cookbooks. OK, but not exactly what the world's waiting for. From AAllan at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 17:00:11 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:00:11 EDT Subject: Entire American Speech now online Message-ID: Glorious news! Now every issue of American Speech, beginning with the very first one in 1925, is available online - to members of the American Dialect Society. There's lagniappe for your dues! Duke U Press has just sent a letter to ADS members explaining how to access all these issues. You begin by going to the American Speech web page: http://www.dukeupress.edu/americanspeech/ Now the instructions given in the letter don't exactly match what you actually have to do to get to the back issues. Maybe that will be changed, but for now, here's what you do: - Click on the link to Project Muse (which gives access to current issues) - and then, on that page, click on "Back issues available on JSTOR." That will take you to the JSTOR page, and just follow the instructions there. Many university libraries provide access to Muse and JSTOR. The great advantage for ADS members is that you can get personal access, regardless of whether your library subscribes, regardless of where you are. For example, in his travels around the world, Barry Popik can access the complete files of American Speech through AOL. (He's probably doing it already.) I have a shelf full of back issues of American Speech, inherited from my predecessor as ADS executive secretary, going back to the 1950s. No, I'm not ready to throw them in the trash yet. (Anybody have a need for them?) But I'll be going online from now on. After all, the online versions are completely searchable. What a great new age! And if you aren't an ADS member? Go to our website http://americandialect.org/ and click on "Become A Member" and on the page that brings up, "You can become a member here" and that will take you to the Duke U Page that makes you a member. Some bargain! - Allan Metcalf From AAllan at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 17:03:24 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:03:24 EDT Subject: American Speech online: postscript Message-ID: I should have mentioned that, in order to access Muse and JSTOR for back issues of American Speech, you do have to have a login and password. At the moment the login and password for both are the ones previously announced for Muse. If you're an ADS member and don't have the letter yet with the password, send me a private email and I'll let you know. - Allan Metcalf (AAllan at aol.com) ADS executive secretary From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 29 20:33:51 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:33:51 -0700 Subject: Australian pronunciation In-Reply-To: <002701c30e67$f611fc20$f2609e40@m1r7o5> Message-ID: All this discussion re Oz pronunciation reminds me of the first time one of my Australian relatives came through the States. I was about 7 and the morning after this cousin arrived, he asked me where the "bison" was. I remember wondering if he thought all Americans had pet buffalo... (Of course he meant the sink (basin).) Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 20:57:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:57:09 -0400 Subject: Carbo-Load (1983); Sugar-High (1985); CHEF'S COMPANION (2003) Message-ID: CARBO-LOAD Not in OED. Both this and the following item will probably be earlier (1970s) in the LOS ANGELES TIMES/CHICAGO TRIBUNE. When I get a 1970s date, then I'll check running magazines for "carbo-load." (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS) Carbo-Loading The Washington Post (1974-Current file); Washington, D.C.; Nov 6, 1983; By Marion Cromley Special to The Washington Post; Section: FOOD Start Page: H4 Page Count: 1 Text Word Count: 476 Document Type: article Source Type: HISTORICAL NEWSPAPER ISSN: 01908286 Abstract: CARBO-LOADING is a temporary diet-shift program born in the 1970s when researchers found that a pre-race diet heavy in carbohydrates could prolong a runner's endurance. Carbohydrates are stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen, the major fuel for muscle tissue. The trick is to get as much gly- cogen into the muscles as possible. (WORLDCAT) About: Free agents / (1); Apple, Max. (18) Title: Free agents / Author(s): Apple, Max. Publication: New York : Harper & Row, Edition: 1st ed. Year: 1984 Description: viii, 197 p. ; 22 cm. Language: English Contents: Walt and Will -- Bridging -- Small island republics -- The eighth day -- Child's play -- Stranger at the table -- Carbo-loading -- The American bakery -- Pizza time -- Free agents -- Momma's boy -- Business talk -- Post-modernism -- Eskimo love -- The national debt -- The four apples -- Help -- Kitty partners -- An offering -- Blood relatives. Standard No: ISBN: 0060152826 :; 0060911409 (pbk.) :; LCCN: 83-48810 Class Descriptors: LC: PS3551.P56; Dewey: 813/.54 Responsibility: Max Apple. Material Type: Fiction (fic) Document Type: Book Entry: 19831109 Update: 20011010 Accession No: OCLC: 10162152 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- SUGAR-HIGH Not in OED. (PROQUEST DIRECT) CATALOGUES MULTIPLY IN SCRAMBLE FOR SALES Chicago Tribune (pre-1997 Fulltext); Chicago, Ill.; Oct 8, 1985; Associated Press; Sub Title: [NATIONAL, C Edition] Start Page: 3 ISSN: 10856706 Dateline: WASHINGTON (...) If that doesn't send your kids on a sugar high, try a 10-pound chocolate bar from Hershey's. (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS) Making a Hero Takes a Heroic Effort; By MARIAN E. BORDEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1985; pg. WC26, 1 pgs ("Especially when I was left eating dozens of small boxes of raisins, while my kids were floating on a sugar high.") A Weekly Guide to Family Dining; Hot Shoppes Cafeterias; By PAT McNEES Special to The Washington Post; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Apr 16, 1981; pg. MD8, 1 pgs (Full text not available-abstract only--ed.) (WORLDCAT) Stories written by: hyper-active, sugar high young adults II / Author: Weideman, Katie.; Maciorowski, Elizabeth. Publication: [Aberdeen, S.D. : Quality Quick Print, 1997 Document: English : Book Stories written by hyper-active, sugar high young adults / Publication: [Aberdeen, S.D. : Quality Quick Print, 1995 Document: English : Book --------------------------------------------------------------- THE CHEF'S COMPANION: A CULINARY DICTIONARY Third Edition by Elizabeth Riely Hoboken, New Jersey: John WIley & Sons 355 pages, paperback, $24.95 2003 The author is editor of the RADCLIFFE CULINARY TIMES (a newsletter of the Schlessinger Library), a contributor to GASTRONOMICA, and author of A FEAST OF FRUITS. Her work has appeared in BON APPETIT, GOURMET, the BOSTON GLOBE, and the NEW YORK TIMES. The book is described as "The indespensable guide to over 5,000 culinary terms," and 900 terms are new with this edition. There are no illustrations, such as in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. (This has almost no culinary equipment terms.) There are no dates for the terms, and there are no etymologies, either. The book ends with a selected bibliography. There are no charts of food terms by country/cuisine. Not a single web address is given. To give it the old "hot dog" test, "hot dog"...is not here. "Frankfurter" is "A German sausage from which the hot dog is descended; smoked pork and beet (Beef?--ed.), served poached; called _Bockwurst_ in Frankfurt." There are few drinks. "Tea" is here, but not "smoothie" or "Bloody Mary." There is no food slang. It's another book. It'll help me. But it doesn't really do what I do and compete with what I want to do for a "culinary dictionary." --------------------------------------------------------------- "WINDY CITY" ERROR OF THE DAY From Lexis/Nexis: Copyright 2003 The Sunday Tribune plc Sunday Tribune (Ireland) April 20, 2003 SECTION: Pg. 13 LENGTH: 974 words HEADLINE: Nothing to beef about in Chicago; 48 HOURS IN CHICAGO BYLINE: John Coughlan BODY: DAY ONE THE moniker 'Windy City' dates from the 1893 World Fair, when the rest of America tired of listening to the local windbags singing its praises; they still boast that theirs is an all-American city like no other. They have a point. On a short visit you will be stretched to sample a fraction of the goodies on offer. (...) From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 21:24:58 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:24:58 EDT Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: n a message dated 4/28/2003 4:59:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US writes: << I did my dissertation on the formation and origins of southern hemisphere varieties of English. It was always fun to come across such anecdotes. >> While visiting Australia I called the math department of a university to locate a Dr. Taylor, a family friend from the States. The very nice person who answered the phone said, "Oh, yes, Dr. Tyler." "No, Dr. Taylor," I corrected. "Yes, Dr. Tyler," was the reply. At that point I gave up and decided the chances of the department having both a Dr. Taylor and a Dr. Tyler were too small to worry about, so I said yes, that's the person I want (and indeed it was). Dr. Taylor told me that yes, the Australians do have a way to distinguish "Taylor" from "Tyler" but he was unable to reproduce it. <> Is there an accepted theory as to why Australia is called "Oz"? Noting the juxtaposition of "NZ" and "OZ" in your post, and the way you capitalize "OZ", I can't help wondering if "OZ" is an acronym for "Old Zealand" as opposed to "New Zealand". The following is from an on-line conversation with a couple of Australians that I saved without copying names or e-addresses. One of the writers is named Alan Crooke; I did not record any other names. The etymology given sounds too good to be true but needs to be reported. - James A. Landau <> From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 21:25:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:25:27 -0400 Subject: Special Sauce (1858) Message-ID: ..."Rare's special sauce"... --NEW YORK PRESS, April 30-May 6, 2003, pg. 35. "Special sauce." McDonald's--now, isn't that special? (OCLC WORLDCAT) Thanksgiving recipes Public Television Library. 1974 English Visual Material : Videorecording : Videocassette 1 cassette, 29 min. : sd., col.; 3/4 in. Washington, D.C. : Public Television Library, Jim Haller, owner and chef of a Portsmouth, New Hampshire, restaurant, shows how to prepare a Thanksgiving meal of roast turkey, dressing with a special sauce, baked apples, cranberry sauce, sauteed brussel sprouts, gravy, and pumpkin pudding. (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS, for McDonald's jingle) About New York; The All-American High School Band ; By FRANCIS X. CLINES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 24, 1977; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("The maestro settled for two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame seed bun, and the band played on.") (PRO QUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS) 531. THE FRUGAL HOUSEWIFE.; SUSANNAH CARTER'S SAUCES--ANOTHER CHEAP DINNER DESCRIBED.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1882; pg. 9, 1 pgs 532. SERVING THE SICK.; HOW FOOD SHOULD BE PREPARED AND PRESENTED TO INVALIDS. ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 14, 1879; pg. 9, 1 pgs 533. NEW BOOKS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 29, 1858; pg. 2, 2 pgs ("At the commencement of the work we have a formidable catalogue of no less than ninety-two 'special sauces,' every one of which is an absolute necessity in a well-ordered kitchen;..." From a book review FRANCATELLI'S COOKERY--ed.) From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Tue Apr 29 21:33:49 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:33:49 -0400 Subject: Special Sauce (1858) In-Reply-To: <65A5B54B.30D17010.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > ..."Rare's special sauce"... > --NEW YORK PRESS, April 30-May 6, 2003, pg. 35. > > "Special sauce." McDonald's--now, isn't that special? Surely this is not a dictionary-worthy collocation. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Tue Apr 29 22:02:23 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:02:23 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: <> >Is there an accepted theory as to why Australia is called "Oz"? Noting the >juxtaposition of "NZ" and "OZ" in your post, and the way you capitalize "OZ", >I can't help wondering if "OZ" is an acronym for "Old Zealand" as opposed to >"New Zealand". No particular reason really. It just sticks out to capitalise both. Surely, it's not an acronym for 'Old Zealand.' I have heard that it gained in popularity (if not originated) with "The Wizard of Oz," but I have never investigated that and I am not sure whether that suggestion was made in earnest. (Maybe such a discussion was made on this list) Fritz From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Tue Apr 29 23:37:47 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:37:47 -0400 Subject: turkeys in the news Message-ID: We perhaps do not all read the hunting news in the NY Times. Those who do not will have missed a demonstration that not all newspaper columnists are careless about word histories. From "Wily Wild Turkeys Lurk in Abundance for the Hunt", by Nelson Bryant, New York Times; New York, N.Y.; Apr 27, 2003. (Only the philologically interesting part is copied.) The domestic turkey that provides Thanksgiving fodder in America is a distant soft-muscled and fat-laden relative of its wild cousin. Tracking down why a turkey is called a turkey is a challenging hunt in itself. On his delightful Web site, World Wide Words, Englishman Michael Quinion observes that around 1530 a new bird was brought to English dining tables ''by merchants trading out of that area of the eastern Mediterranean called the Levant but whom the English called Turkey merchants because the whole area was then part of the Turkish empire.'' GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 02:13:39 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:13:39 -0400 Subject: Ham Sandwich (1825); Special Sauce Message-ID: SPECIAL SAUCE Francatelli, the chef to Queen Victoria, might have popularized "special sauce." I have not seen the next volume of the HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG, but OED has "sauce" (liquor) from 1940. After the McDonald's commercial came out in the 1970s, "special sauce" became humorous catch words, like "the colonel's secret recipe." It was used very often for the slang sense ("The bartender has prepared a special sauce"). OED has a lot of "special" entries. I can't argue that "special sauce" is any more or less deserving than "special forces" or "midnight special." If "special sauce" doesn't make the OED and doesn't make HDAS and doesn't make any other dictionary, again, my personal apologies for the "special sauce" post. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HAM SANDWICH THE AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK (2003) does have an "Index of Recipes by States." I meant that the information wasn't presented in a state or a regional format. Page 138 has "HAM SANDWICHES (1837)," adding "This is the earliest printed sandwich recipe I know, and it comes from _Directions for Cookery_ by Eliza Leslie." It is not the first "ham sandwich." I have a special interest in ham sandwiches, having discussed its legal implications last year. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The New Monthly Magazine and Literary Journal. American Ed. (1821-1834), Boston; 1825; Vol. 10, Iss. 58 Song; C; pg. 379, 1 pgs The wine cellar; L; pg. 375, 5 pgs (Pg. 379: "...and Mr. B--l, the founder of the banquet, sedulously doing the honours with only intenser civility, and calling out for fresh store of ham sandwiches and broiled mushrooms, to enable us to do justice to the liquid delicacies before us.") From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 30 02:15:06 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:15:06 -0500 Subject: Australian pronunciation Message-ID: >At 1:33 PM -0700 4/29/03, Kim & Rima McKinzey wrote: >All this discussion re Oz pronunciation reminds me of the first time >one of my Australian relatives came through the States. I was about >7 and the morning after this cousin arrived, he asked me where the >"bison" was. I remember wondering if he thought all Americans had >pet buffalo... > >(Of course he meant the sink (basin).) > >Rima Here's one more anecdote. About 1990 I visited NYC and was walking down Fifth Avenue past St. Patrick's Cathedral, when I noticed an impressive double-row of policemen lined up on the street running from Fifth to Madison Avenues. This was just across from the cathedral. I walked up to a young couple sitting on the steps of the Cathedral and asked why the policemen were there. "Guy PeRRITE", said the fellow. I wasn't sure who Guy Perrite was (I'd been away from NYC for a while), but the young woman, who was evidently American, smiled and said: "Gay parade." Gerald Cohen From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 30 02:15:33 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:15:33 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Base-Ball in 1793 Message-ID: Below my signoff is a message sent by baseball researcher John Thorn to the 19th Century Baseball discussion group. Gerald Cohen >At 3:15 PM -0400 4/29/03, John Thorn wrote: >To: "19cBB" <19cBB at yahoogroups.com> >From: "John Thorn" >Subject: [19cBB] Base-Ball in 1793 > > >Last November, Skip McAfee inquired of the group: "Has anyone found an >earlier citation [than 1857] in the United States to the term "base-ball" >(spelled with a hyphen), in referring to the game as we know it?" Skip knew, >from George Thompson's great find, that the spelling "base ball" had made it >into print in 1823. > >David Nevard contributed a journal entry by Thoreau from 1856. David Block >replied with some American citations from 1855 (Whitman), 1852, and 1849; of >course he had also located the spelling of "base-ball" in a Guts Muths >volume of 1796 ("Ball mit Freystäten (oder das englische Base-ball"), >described in his excellent essay at >http://www.sabr.org/htdocs/dcforum/User_files/3c08097500f21711.html. > >I would like to throw another ball into the bag with this Town of Pittsfield >(Masachusetts) ordinance of 1793, banning "any game of wicket, cricket, >base-ball, bat-ball, foot-ball, cats, fives, or any other game played with >ball." The context for this find: > > " . the new town-house was completed and occupied by the March >meeting of 1793. > "The safety of the interior of the meeting house being secured >by the exclusion of the town meetings, the exterior was protected by a >by-law forbidding 'any game of wicket, cricket, base-ball, bat-ball, >foot-ball, cats, fives, or any other game played with ball,' within eighty >yards of the precious structure. As a matter of fact, however, the lovers of >muscular sport were not absolutely excluded from the tempting lawn of >'Meeting-House Common,' as the letter of the law would have excluded them. > "It was, indeed, their favorite resort; but Chandler Williams >was ever at hand, with his voice of courteous warning, to ward off the >threatened bombardment, when the danger to the meeting-house windows became >imminent." > >SOURCE: The History of Pittsfield, (Berkshire County,) Massachusetts, From >the Year 1734 to the Year 1800. Compiled and Written, Under the General >Direction of a Committee, by J. E. A. Smith. By Authority of the Town. >Boston: Published by Lea and Shepard. 149 Washington Street. 1869. (Spelling >and punctuation as per the oroginal; text quotation is from pp. 446-447) > >The precise year of the by-law--perhaps it didn't enter into the books until >1794--could be found in the original town minutes, presumably extant in >Pittsfield. > john thorn From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 03:33:23 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:33:23 -0400 Subject: Lazy Susan (1912); Lazy Daisy (1907); Lazy Daisy Cake (1943) Message-ID: LAZY SUSAN It was only a matter of time before my first CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR antedate. Hm, maybe I'll try "Baptist Cake." OED and Merriam-Webster have 1917 for "Lazy Susan." This is an excellent article on it. GIVING AN AUTOMATIC DINNER; Servant dispensed with by means of a turntable; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Sep 25, 1912; pg. 13, 1 pgs ("It is the turn-table or 'Lazy Susan," the characteristic feature of the self-serving dinner-table.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LAZY DAISY OED has 1923 for "lazy daisy." LAZY-DAISY STITCH IS VERY EFFECTIVE AND QUICKLY DONE; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Apr 26, 1913; pg. 8, 1 pgs Problem of Dressing Well on a Slender Purse More Difficult Than Ever This Year.; Wonderful Prices.; By ANNE RITTENHOUSE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 4, 1908; pg. X6, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1907; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Attractive novelties with a pleasure holiday-gift suggestion to be worked in the simple, effective 'Lazy Daisy' stitch:...") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LAZY DAISY CAKE Mentioned in THE AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK as "1930s," but no early citation is provided. The NEW YORK TIMES is shut out here. I'll add some Wisconsin recipes for you mad Madisonites out there. It's Impulse Buying--But for a Good Cause; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 28, 1965; pg. C3, 1 pgs Children Edit Own Cookbook; Banana Bread; By Constance Dippel Written for The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Aug 20, 1964; pg. 6, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Aug 25, 1960; pg. A5, 1 pgs These Bridge Players Bid Recipes; Mrs. A. D. L; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 2, 1956; pg. 48, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Feb 17, 1956; pg. 5, 1 pgs Lazy Daisy Cake Popular; Frosting; O. J. B.; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 28, 1955; pg. 6, 1 pgs To Change the Subject:; Wisconsin and Its Cook Book ...; By Grace Miller; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 3, 1943; pg. 13, 1 pgs: It's interested in how you make "Krummel Kuchen," and wants to tell you how to make it. It's interested in how you make butterscotch bread, pumpkin pie, and sour milk pancakes liek grandma used to make. (...) There's "Kolachy" (Bohemian cottage cheese tarts), for instance; Danish Kringle; Berliner Kranser (cookied that call for "4 raw egg yolks and 4 cooked egg yolks"). There's Scotch Short Bread; Punchki (Polish doughnuts); Armenian Beaurack (a sort of turnover filled with a cheese and parsley omelet). There are Swiss Eggs; Rice Bavarian; Tomatoes Bristol. And if those titles don't intrigue you, how about "Lazy Daisy Cake? (...) For an appetizer the book asks you to try spreading potato chips with cream cheese. Or, make another cheese appetizer called "Burning Bush." (...) Wisconsin is printing only 25,000 copies of this "Favorite Recipes from America's Dailryland," and says the demand for them is already tremendous. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 03:42:40 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:42:40 -0400 Subject: Sour Milk Pancakes (1914); Butterscotch Bread (1936) Message-ID: SOUR MILK PANCAKES Just a follow-up from the Wisconsin recipe book. Once again, the CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR is first. It's No Trick to Mix Pancake Batter -Success Secret Lies in the Frying; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 28, 1944; pg. 14, 1 pgs To Change the Subject:; Wisconsin and Its Cook Book ...; By Grace Miller; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 3, 1943; pg. 13, 1 pgs Bravo Once More, Frank Sullivan!; A PEARL IN EVERY OYSTER. By Frank Sullivan. 290 pp. Boston: Little, Brown & Co. $2.; BEATRICE SHERMAN.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 27, 1938; pg. 97, 1 pgs LOST AND FOUND; Mystery, Adventure, Romance in the Jemez Mountains of New Mexico; By Priscilla Wayne; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 20, 1936; pg. TR8, 1 pgs Lost and Found; By Priscilla Wayne; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 19, 1936; pg. X18, 1 pg DAILY COOK BOOK; Sour Milk Pancakes.; By JANE EDDINGTON; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 5, 1924; pg. 13, 1 pgs SOUR MILK PANCAKES FAVORED; Some prefer them to any other kind; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Mar 2, 1914; pg. 6, 1 pgs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BUTTERSCOTCH BREAD Only one citation before what I'd previously cited. To Change the Subject:; Wisconsin and Its Cook Book ...; By Grace Miller; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 3, 1943; pg. 13, 1 pgs MENUS for TODAY; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 26, 1936; pg. X13, 1 pgs ("BUTTERSCOTCH WAFFLE BREAD.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 04:34:33 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:34:33 -0400 Subject: Baptist Bread/Cake, Holy Pokes, Huffjuff; Potato Bargain; Necessity Mess Message-ID: BAPTIST CAKE Only three hits for this--_all_ in the CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR. DARE has 1931-1933. Serenity: 1904; ROBERT FRANCIS; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Mar 7, 1951; pg. 12, 1 pgs 'Baptist Cakes' Known to Many; Baptist Cakes; Written for The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; May 23, 1934; pg. 8, 1 pgs Paging New Englanders!; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; May 11, 1934; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("I remember there was one breakfast dish which I was very fond of, and that was called 'Baptist cakes.'") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BAPTIST BREAD, HOLY POKES, HUFFJUFF, POTATO BARGAIN, NECESSITY MESS, SEVENTH HEAVEN Where Queer Names Mean Good Eating; Holy Pokes; By Ethel M. Eaton Written for The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Sep 25, 1945; pg. 11, 1 pg: It has long been a tradition that the visitor to New England always finds good food awaiting him. However, the stranger in our midst may not always recognize the food he is eating by its name. If he's long in this section of the country, he will probably encounter, sooner or later, Fannie Daddies, Featherbeds (the kind you eat), Popdoodle, Down East Sizzlers, Seventh Heaven, Halleluiah, Holy Pokes, Gap and Swallow, Necessity Mess, and other dishes with novel names. And don't aske me how they got them, for--with few exceptions--I don't know any more than you do. But I do know, from sundry wanderings elsewhere, that you will go far to find better food, no matter what it's labeled; and frequently the same dish has different labels in different sections of New England. For instance, a Halleluia in one place is a Cape Cod Stifle in a Cape community. And then there are Holy Pokes--that's the Connecticut name for them; on the Maine coast you'll be eating Huffjuffs; and if you meet up with Baptist Bread or Dough Boys on your New England holiday, they will be the same Holy Pokes you enjoyed in Connecticut. Necessity Mess has several names, too--though none so uniquely descriptive: Potato Bargain happens to be one of its other names. From the coastal section comes a hearty dish bearing the picturesque epithet of "Scootin'-'Long-the-Shore," so dubbed by fishermen who prepared it while attending to their work on a moving boat. Still keeping to the shore, we find Boat Steerers--clam fritters to you! If you eat fried clams in some Cape Cod communities, you will be eating Fannie Daddies--I'd like to know how thay got that name, too! A versatile group are the Slumps and Grunts; and let the visitor be warned in advance that if he partakes too freely, he'll do both later! These dishes are usually made from berries, preferably blueberries--though other fruit may be used. Indeed, Apple Slump is a famous New England dish. And while we're on apple dishes, there's Seventh Heaven, and whoever named it was not guilty of overstatement. If you run into Yankee Apple John anywhere--as you doubtless will--don't make the mistake of calling it Pandowdy! What is set before you under the name of Jolly Boys depends on where you are in these six corner states. In the northern section, you will be eating Rye Meal Drop Cakes (they're good eating, too!); in another locality, you will be enjoying baked apples with the cores removed and the spaces filled with pork sausage. Strangely enough, in the inland state of Vermont I first encountered Sailor's Duff which apparently originated along the coast and migrated to the interior. But wherever you find it, don't refuse it, for it's good! Another delicacy first enjoyed in Vermont (One line illegible--ed.) any name--is called Finger Putters, a sort of glorified cookie. As their name implies, Down East Sizzlers originated in the extreme northeast corner of Yankee land, though you may find them elsewhere. They're a sort of blueberry turnover, browned in "sizzling" deep fat. And that same sizzling deep fat helps to make Boston Belles the good eating that they are. Of course, they might be almost anything, since much good food emananates from that city; but they happen to be codfish cakes, light as a feather, golden brown and crispy on the outside; and dedicated, as everyone knows, to Sunday breakfast along with baked beans, reheated. No article on New England foods would be complete without mention of Red Flannel Hash. You'll run into it everywhere, but it probably won't be made twice in the same way. Some cooks put cabbage in it, while others wouldn't think of doing such a thing; some chop the cold corned beef in with the vegetables, while others serve it sliced alongside. But all are united on one ingredient--beets! (Recipes for "Holy Pokes" and "Seventh Heaven" and "Fannie Daddies" and "Halleluiah" and "Featherbeds" follow. DARE has almost all of these, except for "Seventh Heaven" and "Halleluiah" and "Necessity Mess," and the first citation is the 1939 YANKEE COOK BOOK--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 05:10:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:10:25 -0400 Subject: "Pastrami" in New York Times; Baptist Cake (1925?) Message-ID: PASTRAMI An awful, thoroughly forgettable article on "pastrami" is in Wednesday's NEW YORK TIMES (www.nytimes.com) food section. The author of the piece wanted to know about the word "pastrami," so, rather than contact the OED, he contacted cookbook authors who don't know anything. FWIW, here's another spelling and citation: Display Ad 14 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 29, 1922; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Pastroma (spiced beef) lb. ...65c" at Old Dutch Masters Market.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BAPTIST CAKE (continued) The middle of the three articles mentioned a "Baptist Cake" recipe from this cookbook. I now see that the cookbook is from 1925, so the recipe may antedate DARE: Title Everybody's cook book [microform] : a comprehensive manual of home cookery, compiled from the records of the School of household science and arts, Pratt institute / edited by Isabel Ely Lord. Imprint New York : H. Holt and Co., 1925, c1924. From SteveSlr at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 06:14:32 2003 From: SteveSlr at AOL.COM (Your Name) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:14:32 EDT Subject: A question for a news article Message-ID: This is Steve Sailer, the National Correspondent for United Press International (UPI). I was wondering if you might help me out with a topic I'm exploring for a news article on a particular accent that seems to be becoming more common among well-educated African American men. I got interested in this because I recently interviewed a geneticist at Howard U.,and then I watched a biologist at Arizona State being interviewed on PBS. I noted that they spoke with identical accents. It's the one used by lots of college educated black men under, say, age 45 these days: very masculine, distinctively black, but not at all ghetto. You hear it a lot from African-American men wearing those little wireframe glasses that seem to be a subtle marker of being a college grad. It's a good all-around accent -- in some ways like an Australian or Irish accent in that it's easy to understand, reasonably efficient for pronouncing multi-syllabic words quickly and clearly, but it's not fussy-sounding like a BBC English accent. I was wondering if there's a name for this or any information on its origins. How does it differ from the typical accent of a white college grad? From a less educated black's accent? Is there a black female equivalent? Thanks, Steve Sailer National Correspondent United Press International www.UPI.com Main: 818-766-7687 Fax: 818-766-3787 Mobile: 202-841-1217 12515 Landale St. Studio City, California, USA 91604-1306 Secondary Email: SteveSlr at aol.com From remlingk at GVSU.EDU Wed Apr 30 16:17:49 2003 From: remlingk at GVSU.EDU (Kathryn Remlinger) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:17:49 -0400 Subject: "Are you deef?" Message-ID: This is purely anecdotal evidence about the deaf/deef pronunciation. My maternal grandmother, who was born and raised in NW Ohio and whose first language was German, also said "deef" for deaf. I always attributed it to her first language and regional dialect, which both of which were influenced by German. I also think it's generational--none of her children pronounce deaf this way. Kate ____________________ Kathryn Remlinger, Ph.D. Associate Professor of English: Linguistics Department of English Grand Valley State University 1 Campus Drive Allendale, MI 49401 USA remlingk at gvsu.edu tel: 616-331-3122 fax: 616-331-3430 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 16:49:47 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:49:47 EDT Subject: Note Job; Moons Over My Hammy (1992); Fishamajig (1970) Message-ID: NOTE JOB From the NEW YORK SUN, 30 April 2003, pg. 2, col. 3: _Police: "Note-Job" Robber a Homeless Man_ By WILLIAM MAULDIN (...) Police said Mr. Brown is responsible for 14 "note-job" robberies, in which a robber passes a threatening note to the teller demanding money. A drastic increase in "note jobs" this year prompted Mayor Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly to ask banks for help in preventing robberies. (See the RHHDAS for "nut job" and, perhaps, OED for "nose job"--ed.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- MOONS OVER MY HAMMY From the NEW YORK SUN, 30 April 2003, pg. 16, col. 3: _Eat Your Words_ _A Guide to Menu Language, From Crosnes to Chocolate Venison Jus_ (...) Chain restaurants deal with novice and timid eaters. Their menus aim for reassurance. Despite the "fun" names for dishes--"Moons Over My Hammy," "Death By Chocolate"--menu language at chain restaurants is extravagantly specific. Typed DrawingWord Mark MOONS OVER MY HAMMY Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: restaurant meals consisting primarily of ham and egg sandwiches and served with one of the following; French fries, salad or soup. FIRST USE: 19920200. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19920200 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74623306 Filing Date January 19, 1995 Published for Opposition October 17, 1995 Registration Number 1946766 Registration Date January 9, 1996 Owner (REGISTRANT) DENNY'S, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 203 East Main Street Spartanburg SOUTH CAROLINA 29319(LAST LISTED OWNER) DFO, INC. CORPORATION BY ASSIGNMENT DELAWARE 203 E. MAIN ST. SPARTANBURG SOUTH CAROLINA 29319 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Live/Dead Indicator LIVE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- FISHAMAJIG The talk about restaurant menu names got me all nostalgic for Friendly's "Fishamajig." Typed DrawingWord Mark FISHAMAJIG Goods and Services IC 042. US 100. G & S: SANDWICHES ESPECIALLY PREPARED IN CONJUNCTION WITH RESTAURANT SERVICES. FIRST USE: 19700218. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19700218 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73020550 Filing Date May 3, 1974 Registration Number 1015495 Registration Date July 8, 1975 Owner (REGISTRANT) FRIENDLY ICE CREAM CORPORATION CORPORATION MASSACHUSETTS 1855 BOSTON ROAD WILBRAHAM MASSACHUSETTS 01095(LAST LISTED OWNER) HOMESTEAD, INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF DELAWARE 111 CONTINENTAL DRIVE, SUITE 309 NEWARK DELAWARE 19713 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record WILLIAM J. BURGESS Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19950627 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Wed Apr 30 17:04:22 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:04:22 -0400 Subject: C. Barnsley Message-ID: This message, I suppose, is really for Jesse. I hope that he will ask the boys in the back room to check the files. I have received the following question from a constituent: "If you look up 'Jelot' in the O.E.D. you find the following quoted: c1550 C. BARNSLEY Treat. agst. Woman; I've searched the catalogs, online databases, web search-engines, etc., with no luck. Please advise." The full citation is: "For a stewde strumpet can not so soone gette up a light lewde fashyon, But everye wanton Ielot wylle lyke it well, and catche it up anon. Ibid., Ducke, Ielot, ducke pretye minions." It is explained as a variant spelling of "gillot". Nothing shows up in RLIN under the title, though quirks of Elizabethan spelling and the possibility that the title is given in condensed as well as abbreviated form makes a title search doubtful. I notice that C. BARNSLEY also appears in the OED as the author of Pride & Abuse of Women (c1550) 119 A caped cassock much like a players gown. (under "cassock"). But I didn't find this book in the STC either. Late breaking development, leading to the solution: I have just found the following in RLIN: Gosson, Stephen, 1554-1624. Pleasant quippes for upstart newfangled gentlewomen / by Stephen Gosson. A treatise on the pride and abuse of women / by Charles Bansley. The first from a copy with the author's autograph; the last from an unique impression by Thomas Raynalde. -- London : T. Richards, 1841. [v]-xii, 16, 15 p "Reprinted by T. Richards for the executors of the late C. Richards, 100, St. Martin's Lane." Originally printed in 1595. This leads to: Bansley, Charles. A treatyse, shewing and declaring the pryde and abuse of women now a dayes. [microform] [Imprinted at London : In Paules Church yearde, at thee sygne of the Starre. By Thomas Raynalde, [ca. 1550] Signed at end: Charles Bansley. Place of publication and printer's name from colophon; publication date estimated by STC. References: STC (2nd ed) 1374. Available on microfilm and on the World Wide Web. Microfilm. Ann Arbor, Mich.: University Microfilms International, 1953. 1 microfilm reel; 35 mm (Early English books, 1475-1640; 517:02). So the author's name is wrong and the title both condensed as well as abbreviated. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. From mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU Wed Apr 30 17:59:37 2003 From: mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU (Mark A. Mandel) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:59:37 -0400 Subject: Reuleaux polygon Message-ID: On a University of Pennsylvania local newsgroup I mentioned the "Rouleaux triangle". That elicited the following response (prefixed with ':'), and my appended followup: >>> : Yes! Though I believed it's spelled Reuleaux. There is a nice page about : them here, : http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ReuleauxTriangle.html . I should mention that : any Reuleaux Polygon http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ReuleauxPolygon.html : will work too. Fascinating! I first recall hearing of these in a story by Poul Anderson, who I think used the "ou" spelling. I always thought it was "Rouleaux", and I ran 4 Google searches to start checking (after failing to find either spelling in OED Online): triangle polygon Reuleaux 606 214 Rouleaux 1330 30 I found the opposite skews for the two nouns interesting. And some of the hits led to the evident origin of the term. As Amazon.com presents it: Kinematics of Machinery: Outlines of a Theory of Machines by Franz Reuleaux He lived 1829-1905, according to http://www.seiflow.co.uk/Franz%20Reuleaux.htm, and was quite an expert on kinematics and small machines (also http://www.mae.cornell.edu/Reuleauxcoll/Sp.feat5.html). I gather that he developed the theory of the polygons that are known by his name. Each edge is an arc of a circle, and as the polygon rolls along a flat surface, its upper limb maintains a constant distance from the surface, just as with a circle, so that a Reuleaux-polygonal cylinder can be used as a roller. And, I would guess, the spelling "Rouleaux" arose from association with the verb "roll" ("rouler" in French). <<< -- Mark A. Mandel Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania From AAllan at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 18:04:40 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:04:40 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20A=20question=20for=20a=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?news=20article?= Message-ID: Dear Steve, Very interesting question. You have noticed a phenomenon that I don't think has been discussed by our group before, and that I don't have any special expertise for. Let me suggest you get in touch with Professor John Baugh in the School of Education at Stanford, jbaugh at stanford.edu who is a former president of our American Dialect Society, who is African-American himself, and who has quite a dialect repertoire of his own. He's friendly and likely to give you in-depth authoritative comments. If he's not available, let me know and I'll try to think of someone else. Best wishes - Allan Metcalf Executive Secretary, American Dialect Society From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 18:37:52 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:37:52 EDT Subject: Reuleaux polygon Message-ID: In a message dated 4/30/2003 1:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU writes: > I first recall hearing of [Reuleaux polygons] in a story by Poul Anderson, Poul Anderson "The Three-Cornered Wheel" which appeared in Analog Science Fiction when that magazine was printed in "bedsheet format", which was March 1963 through April 1965. I have no idea if it has ever been reprinted. It was very minor Anderson, being a typical Analog gimmick story. Some explorers needed to move something heavy (I forget what) but the autochthones worshipped the circle as holy and therefore circular wheels were taboo. So the explorers pulled the expected rabbit out their helmets by using rollers in the shape of Reuleaux triangles. My Analog collection is packed away in the attic so I can't look it up anytime soon. - James A. Landau From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 30 18:41:29 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:41:29 -0400 Subject: Reuleaux polygon In-Reply-To: <14d.1eb31e9e.2be17200@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 02:37:52PM -0400, James A. Landau wrote: > In a message dated 4/30/2003 1:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU writes: > > > I first recall hearing of [Reuleaux polygons] in a story by Poul Anderson, > > Poul Anderson "The Three-Cornered Wheel" which appeared in Analog Science > Fiction when that magazine was printed in "bedsheet format", which was March > 1963 through April 1965. I have no idea if it has ever been reprinted. It > was very minor Anderson, being a typical Analog gimmick story. Some > explorers needed to move something heavy (I forget what) but the autochthones > worshipped the circle as holy and therefore circular wheels were taboo. So > the explorers pulled the expected rabbit out their helmets by using rollers > in the shape of Reuleaux triangles. > > My Analog collection is packed away in the attic so I can't look it up > anytime soon. It was the October 1963 Analog. Jesse Sheidlower From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 18:54:14 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:54:14 EDT Subject: Lemon Message-ID: A possible early use of "lemon" in the sense of "a bad deal" or "a bad purchase": the writer is commenting on the names of train stations observed during a train trip to Columbia, Pennsylvania there was "Lemon place," suggestive to soured passengers of a collision squeeze; The United States illustrated; in views of city and country. With descriptive and historical articles, ed. by Charles A. Dana. Dana, Charles A. (Charles Anderson), 1819-1897. ed. 2 v. plates. 31 cm. New York, H. J. Meyer [1853?] http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moa;cc= moa;sid=048c97ef8e6146a55df3f2c5316570ad;q1=synthetic%20geometr%2A;rgn= full%20text;idno=AFL5137.0001.001;view=image;seq=00000229 - James A. Landau From mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU Wed Apr 30 18:59:05 2003 From: mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU (Mark A. Mandel) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:59:05 -0400 Subject: Reuleaux polygon (fwd) Message-ID: Followup from the person who posted the correct spelling, forwarded with his name by permission: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:25:14 -0400 From: Urijah Kaplan To: Mark A. Mandel Subject: Re: Reuleaux polygon Yes, very interesting. Though I think "Rouleaux" would probably be associated more with the noun, Main Entry: rou·leau Pronunciation: rü-'lO Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural rou·leaux /-'lOz/ Etymology: French Date: 1693 : a little roll; especially : a roll of coins put up in paper --Urijah From SteveSlr at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 19:20:41 2003 From: SteveSlr at AOL.COM (Your Name) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:20:41 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20A=20question=20for=20a=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=20news=20article?= Message-ID: Thanks very much. I just emailed Dr. Baugh, but I got an auto-reply saying he'll be out for the rest of the week. Do you know anybody else I could ask? Steve Sailer National Correspondent United Press International www.UPI.com Main: 818-766-7687 Fax: 818-766-3787 Mobile: 202-841-1217 12515 Landale St. Studio City, California, USA 91604-1306 Secondary Email: SSailer at upi.com From AAllan at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 19:40:04 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:40:04 EDT Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20=C2=A0=20=C2=A0=20=C2=A0=20Re:=20=E2=80=A0=20?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=A0=20=E2=80=A0=20A=20question=20for=20a=C2=A0=C2=A0=20n?= =?UTF-8?Q?ews=20article?= Message-ID: Dear Steve, Try Dennis Preston of Michigan State, another past president of the American Dialect Society. He's white, but he's an alert observer. preston at pilot.msu.edu Good luck! - Allan Metcalf From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 30 21:10:55 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:10:55 -0400 Subject: dInIs's abilities In-Reply-To: <55.3eba830f.2be18094@aol.com> Message-ID: At 3:40 PM -0400 4/30/03, AAllan at AOL.COM wrote: >Dear Steve, > Try Dennis Preston of Michigan State, another past president of the >American Dialect Society. He's white, but he's an alert observer. >preston at pilot.msu.edu > Good luck! - Allan Metcalf Sort of like "He's white, but he's a good jumper"... L From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 22:14:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:14:55 -0400 Subject: Sedentary Tourism Message-ID: Another one from today's newspaper, not very popular just yet, but you never know. From the the NEW YORK SUN, 30 April 2003, pg. 15, col. 5 ("AT THE THEATER"): When the curtain rises for the second act of "Enchanted April," its towering, florid set receives a wave of applause. The British director Jonathan Miller has a disparaging term for such cheers: "sedentary tourism." From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 30 23:46:55 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:46:55 -0400 Subject: C. Barnsley In-Reply-To: <46d1246410.4641046d12@homemail.nyu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 01:04:22PM -0400, George Thompson wrote: > This message, I suppose, is really for Jesse. I hope that > he will ask the boys in the back room to check the files. Thanks for the correction, George. I've passed it on to the Bibliography Group. Best, Jesse From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Tue Apr 1 00:31:05 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:31:05 -0500 Subject: re use of OED In-Reply-To: <000d01c2f7dd$3d8896f0$6901a8c0@P1120> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, mark worden wrote: > Please disregard and destroy the post, "red line via OED" wherein the author > of that post quoted copyrighted material, without permission. Do you mean you think you did something wrong in posting the quotations without permission of the quotation authors, or that you did something wrong in posting editorial material from the OED? Either interpretation of copyright law and fair use would cast many of us on this list in a very, very bad light indeed! Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 01:02:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:02:32 -0500 Subject: Palm oil (1692) Message-ID: OED has 1705 for "palm oil." Some say it's bad for you; I forgot which vacation I was on where it was used in everything. From Early English Books Online: Author: Salmon, William, 1644-1713. Title: Medicina practica, or, Practical physick shewing the method of curing the most usual diseases happening to humane bodies ... : to which is added, the philosophick works of Hermes Trismegistus, Kalid Persicus, Geber Arabs, Artesius Long?vus, Nicholas Flammel, Roger Bachon and George Ripley : all translated out of the best Latin editions into English ... : together with a singular comment upon the first book of Hermes, the most ancient of philosophers : the whole compleated in three books / by William Salmon ... Publication date: 1692. Search results: 1 match in full text table of contents | view text | add to bookbag SALMON'S Practical Physick. The First BOOK. > CHAP. XVII. Of BUBOES. ? ... nces, Figgs three Ounces, Galbanum and Ammoniacum strained, Le|ven, Mustard-seed, of each an Ounce, Palm Oil, Oil of Amber, ana half an Ounce; mix, and make a Cataplasm. In a cold Bubo ... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 01:38:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:38:13 -0500 Subject: Pattypan Squash (1835); Pattypan Pie (1841) Message-ID: PATTYPAN SQUASH The latest volue of DARE (P-SK) has "pattypan squash" from 1863. The American Periodical Series is working again: The Genesee Farmer and Gardener's Journal (1831-1839), Rochester; Aug 22, 1835; Vol. 5, Iss. 34 Hybrid squashes; Anonymous; pg. 265, 1 pgs ("The Bush or Pattypan Squash (_Cucurbea melapepo_)..." It's very hard to read, but it's here--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- PATTYPAN PIE From the North Amerian Women's Letters and Diaries database: Platt, Jeanette Hulme. "Letter from Jeannette Hulme Platt to Martha Hulme Canfield, January 02, 1841" [Page 38 | Paragraph | Section | Document] sole occupant of the spacious kitchen of Point Pleasant for the day. Commencing at 10? o'clock I made thirty-one pies! Mince pies? Yes, thirty-one mince pies! Was not that enough of itself to make me begin to be "poorly." To be sure, for the sake of exactness, I must say sixteen were little patty-pan pies the size of my thumb. And then I said I was sole occupant of the kitchen. Mary Ann and Phoebe were both there. I had a fine time after all, as I told mother last evening. By begging and bribing I had dry wood cut by Bill to fit the oven, and dry wood cut to fit the stove, and Results Bibliography Platt, Jeanette Hulme, 1816-1877, Letter from Jeannette Hulme Platt to Martha Hulme Canfield, January 02, 1841, in Life and Letters of Mrs. Jeanette H. Platt. Platt, Cyrus. Philadelphia, PA: E. Claxton & Co., 1882, pp. 363. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [1-2-1841] S166-D009 From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 1 01:38:43 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:38:43 -0800 Subject: Palm oil (1692) In-Reply-To: <5D637272.67099074.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: ... Nicholas Flammel, ... He of Harry Potter fame??? Rima From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Tue Apr 1 02:03:31 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:03:31 -0800 Subject: re use of OED Message-ID: Dang, I don't mean to cast a bad light on anybody. Interpretation of copyright law is not within my competence. Clearly. Excuse me, I'm in over my head here. Quark out, and not beating his wife any more either Lower Umpqua Addictive Conundrum Institute ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shapiro" To: Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 4:31 PM Subject: Re: re use of OED > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Fred Shapiro > Subject: Re: re use of OED > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, mark worden wrote: > > > Please disregard and destroy the post, "red line via OED" wherein the author > > of that post quoted copyrighted material, without permission. > > Do you mean you think you did something wrong in posting the quotations > without permission of the quotation authors, or that you did something > wrong in posting editorial material from the OED? Either interpretation > of copyright law and fair use would cast many of us on this list in a > very, very bad light indeed! > > Fred Shapiro > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS > Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 1 02:05:10 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:05:10 -0500 Subject: Dropping final consonants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not aware of the prosodic conditioning, and I'd like to hear more about that. However, here in Muncie, IN, I here a lot of glottal stop for final /t/, with no /t/. Given the normal glottalization of final fortis consonants, this seems pretty clearly to be final /t/ deletion. Since final /t/ deletes between consonants, deletion after a glottal stop may be a further generalization of the process? I haven't heard final /p/ or /k/ deletion after a glottal stop around here. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Alice Faber Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 3:33 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Dropping final consonants AAllan at AOL.COM said: >A non-linguist colleague of mine declares that he hears students dropping >final consonants. He puts it this way: > >< >consonants off words? Many students, it seems to me, are saying "buh" for > >"but," "wha'" for "what," "tha" for "that," etc. Have you noticed anything > >like this? If it is occurring, what could be the cause?>> > >and then he followed up with > >< >conversation with a fine student, I said to myself, "I wish Allan were here >to > >listen to this." She is highly intelligent, focused, etc., but she repeatedly > >dropped the last consonant from words. About two minutes ago another >student, > >a fellow, dropped by, and he did the same in about five instances. (Maybe > >it's my hearing!)>> > >Anything new to this? Is it just a matter of hearing what has been happening >all along? I'd like to see more examples. These examples all end with /t/, and this might be a matter of "glottal replacement". Or the stops might just be unreleased. I hear both variants frequently, at all levels of formality. It's extremely variable by speaker, and, for some speakers, there appears to be prosodic conditioning as well. -- =========================================================================== == Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 1 03:02:07 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:02:07 -0500 Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A few years ago I posted a brief comment on implosives that I've heard from speakers from the Lower Great Plains, a label I've made up for a region running from Oklahoma and northern Texas up to southern Nebraska and east into Missouri and Arkansas. This is not by way of defining an isogloss, because I haven't surveyed the area and I don't know how far the phenomenon extends. I'm basing it on where the speakers I've heard are from. The phenomenon is that initial voiced stops in stressed syllables become implosives. This appears not to happen in consonant+liquid clusters, and it doesn't happen finally or in unstressed syllables. Ladefoged mentions that implosives sometimes occur in English for emphasis and gives the example "billions and billions" where both /b/ are imploded. I haven't observed this myself, and it doesn't sound as if he and I are referring to the same phenomenon. However, this is the only published reference I've seen to implosives in English. I've also found a reference by Fred Cummins http://cspeech.ucd.ie/~fred/courses/phonetics/airstream1.html to an implosive /b/ that he associates impressionistically with a Texas accent. Does anyone know of other published or www discussions of implosives in American English (I don't know if Ladefoged's reference is American)? Herb From GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU Tue Apr 1 03:44:33 2003 From: GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU (Gordon, Matthew J.) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:44:33 -0600 Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives Message-ID: I think Ladefoged was thinking of Carl Sagan - "billions and billions" was a catch phrase of Sagan impressionists. I'm very intrigued by Herb's observations. I hadn't noticed implosives in Missouri, but then I mainly listen to vowels. I wonder if Alice or someone else could tell us whether there are acoustic cues for implosives that would be recognizable in a spectrogram. -----Original Message----- From: Herbert Stahlke [mailto:hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET] Sent: Mon 3/31/2003 9:02 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Cc: Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives A few years ago I posted a brief comment on implosives that I've heard from speakers from the Lower Great Plains, a label I've made up for a region running from Oklahoma and northern Texas up to southern Nebraska and east into Missouri and Arkansas. This is not by way of defining an isogloss, because I haven't surveyed the area and I don't know how far the phenomenon extends. I'm basing it on where the speakers I've heard are from. The phenomenon is that initial voiced stops in stressed syllables become implosives. This appears not to happen in consonant+liquid clusters, and it doesn't happen finally or in unstressed syllables. Ladefoged mentions that implosives sometimes occur in English for emphasis and gives the example "billions and billions" where both /b/ are imploded. I haven't observed this myself, and it doesn't sound as if he and I are referring to the same phenomenon. However, this is the only published reference I've seen to implosives in English. I've also found a reference by Fred Cummins http://cspeech.ucd.ie/~fred/courses/phonetics/airstream1.html to an implosive /b/ that he associates impressionistically with a Texas accent. Does anyone know of other published or www discussions of implosives in American English (I don't know if Ladefoged's reference is American)? Herb From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 03:48:46 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:48:46 -0500 Subject: Coalition of the Willing (1991); Nuanced Objectivity; OT: Columbia comments Message-ID: COALITION OF THE WILLING I thought it was just some speechwriter's phrase mouthed by President Bush recently (over 5,000 Factiva hits!), but it's much older and has a definite source that MIT grad Fred Shapiro might be interested in. The following is in a story that involves the United Nations: 1 May 1991, THE FUTURIST (Factiva): ,,,what Massachusetts Institute of Technology political science professor Lincoln Bloomfield calls a "coalition of the willing." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NUANCED OBJECTIVITY From today's www.andrewsullivan.com: THE NYT ON THE BBC: The Axis of Bias now exists. But check out the simply glorious Times' description of the BBC's coverage of the war: "nuanced objectivity." I think I'm going to rename our regular media bias updates as "Nuanced Objectivity Watch." - 2:16:27 AM Sullivan often calls the BBC the "Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation." I don't know if that one will catch on, but "nuance" might. Sullivan today wrote a lot about what's happening at Columbia, so, without further nuance... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OT: COLUMBIA COMMENTS ("A million Mogadishus") I'm just a guest here trying to antedate "rutabaga," so I don't want to upset the apple cart. But what's happened has made international news. At a "teach-in" on Wednesday night, assistant professor of anthropology Nicholas De Genova called for "a million Mogadishus." (A place where American soldiers were killed.) In today's COLUMBIA SPECTATOR staff editorial, pg. 4: "By keeping De Genova on board, Columbia would show that it values free speech, but also that it tolerates simplistic, lazy rhetoric in lieu of nuanced argumentation." Nuanced argumentation! Sullivan and others have pointed out that this Columbia professor advocates killing Jews as well as killing Americans. "Free speech" (at a "teach-in"?) means that you can't fire a lunatic? What do you have to say to get fired at Columbia University? "Kill Americans!" won't do it? "Kill Jews!" is just fine? Do you have to say "niggardly"? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 04:27:35 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:27:35 -0500 Subject: Picnic Ham (1890) Message-ID: OED has 1910 for "picnic ham." There are many advertisements in the NEW YORK TIMES of 1903 for "Armour's Picnic Hams," but there are earlier hits. This is the first: 16 May 1890, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 2: ...California Hams, 6c, and boxed sweet-pickled picnic Hams, averaging 10 lb, 6 1/2c. From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Tue Apr 1 04:31:37 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:31:37 -0500 Subject: up the wazoo/kazoo Message-ID: If I missed a discussion of these terms as they relate to "anus," all I can plead is that I searched. RHDHAS lists "kazoo" to mean "anus" from 1965. I tend to think, at least in the US, that the term "wazoo" has, in the last 10-20 years, overtaken "kazoo" in phrases such as "blow it out your wazoo" and "up your wazoo." Since we can't read Vol. III of RHDHAS, can anyone cite when "wazoo" became the term of choice? Along with "wazoo" we would also like to know about the use of "...out your ying/yang." Again, no Vol III. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 05:12:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:12:20 -0500 Subject: Prime Rib (1857, 1876, 1938); Potato Stick (1937, 1941) Message-ID: PRIME RIB OED has 1892 for "prime joint," then 1960 for "prime rib." Another prime BROOKLYN EAGLE citation. 22 December 1857, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: BUTCHERS MARKET SIRLOIN STEAK...PORTER HOUSE...PRIME RIB...ROUND STEAK...CORNED RUMP... 12 November 1876, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 7: ...prime rib roasts, 15 to 18 cents;... Word Mark LAWRY'S THE PRIME RIB Goods and Services IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: Restaurant, bar and catering services. FIRST USE: 19380100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19380100 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 76199086 Filing Date January 24, 2001 Published for Opposition December 10, 2002 Registration Number 2692153 Registration Date March 4, 2003 Owner (REGISTRANT) LIPTON INVESTMENTS, INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE 501 SILVERSIDE ROAD WILMINGTON DELAWARE 19801 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record STEPHEN A GOLDSMITH Prior Registrations 0721664;1028961;1140026 Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)-IN PART Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Distinctiveness Limitation Statement as to "THE PRIME RIB" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ POTATO STICK Doesn't go well with "prime rib," but I'm on the letter P right now. OED has 1972 for "potato stick." I just checked the ADS-L archives, and someone named Popik found "potato stick" in the 1937 NEW YORK HERALD TRIBUNE that beats this. I hate that guy. Crisp Potato Sticks Are Newest Delicacy To Serve as Appetizer at Cocktail Time; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 19, 1941; pg. 17, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 05:50:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:50:49 -0500 Subject: Razor Clam (1880); Reconstitute (1905) Message-ID: RAZOR CLAM OED has 1882 for "razor clam." A FEAST BY THE SEA-SIDE; THE BIG AND THE LITTLE FISH AT DINNER. A GREAT MEAL OF SHARKS' FINS, RAZORCLAMS, HORSESHOE CRABS, SQUID, SWORD-FISH, STURGEON, AND WOLF-FISH.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 1, 1880; pg. 5, 1 pgs THE ICHTHYOPHAGOUS.; PORCUPINES, GUINEA PIGS, ARMY-WORMS, AND WEEDS--WILL THERE BE A CORONER IN ATTENDANCE?; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 27, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs THE TROUBLES OF A COMMITTEE.; MATTERS ICHTHYOPHAGOUS--DISCUSSIONS ON THE HORSESHOE CRAB--THE RAZOR CLAM--WHAT IS THE SIZE OF A BEAVER'S TAIL?; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 20, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RECONSTITUTE OED has 1917 for "reconstitute" in connection with food. Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jun 16, 1906; Vol. Vol. XCIV., Iss. 0 1. DRIED MILK--A NEW PROCESS.; pg. 492, 1 pgs (Col. 3: "The reconstituted milk, while it has all the properties of real milk, has a flat taste and is, of course, not as palatable as the original article.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 06:14:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 01:14:32 -0500 Subject: Rizcous (1989); Wehani (1983) Message-ID: RIZCOUS Not in OED. Rizcous=Rice couscous. Food Notes: ...Rice that resembles couscous...; Florence Fabricant; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 14, 1989; pg. C7, 1 pgs ("Lundberg Family Farms, a Richvale, Calif. company that grows rice, has developed Rizcous, a brown-rice product that resembles couscous.") Word Mark RIZ COUS Translations THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE WORD "RIZ" IN THE MARK IS "RICE". Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: DRY MIX FOR PREPARING A RICE-BASED COUSCOUS. FIRST USE: 19890131. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19890131 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73821397 Filing Date August 24, 1989 Published for Opposition January 30, 1990 Registration Number 1593274 Registration Date April 24, 1990 Owner (REGISTRANT) WEHAH FARM, INC. DBA LUNDBERG FAMILY FORMS CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 5370 CHURCH STREET RICHVALE CALIFORNIA 959740369 Attorney of Record PAUL W. VAPNEK Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "RIZ" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date May 9, 2001 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- WEHANI Not in OED. NOT THE SAME OLD RICE; BY JOANNA PRUESS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 6, 1987; pg. SM49, 2 pgs (Pg. SM50, col. 1: "Wehani rice is the color of dark honey; the texture and flavor are a gutsy meeting of brown, white and wild-rice qualities. This basmati adaptation is grown by Lundberg Family Farms in Richvale, Calif.") Word Mark WEHANI Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: RICE. FIRST USE: 19830701. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19830701 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73768590 Filing Date November 28, 1988 Published for Opposition June 12, 1990 Registration Number 1612223 Registration Date September 4, 1990 Owner (REGISTRANT) WEHAH FARM, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA P.O. BOX 369 RICHVALE CALIFORNIA 959740369 Attorney of Record PAUL W. VAPNEK Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date September 21, 2001 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 07:09:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 02:09:53 -0500 Subject: Maraschino cherry Message-ID: OK, last one before parking tickets. I'll save "rose hips" for another day. OED has 1905 for "maraschino cherry," coined by O. Henry. This is after the revision, where you'd expect "great author" coinages to be knocked out. "Maraschino," in various spellings, goes back to the 1790s. Our old friend the BROOKLYN EAGLE comes in handy again. 23 August 1900, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 4 ad: Maraschino Cherries--Pitted and imported from France. 15 September 1900, NATIONAL POLICE GAZETTE (American Periodical Series), pg. 14 (in a recipe for the "Zaza" cocktail): ..one-half bar spoonful of juice of Maraschino cherries... 14 December 1902, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 10 ad: 1 bottle MARASCHINO CHERRIES. From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 1 09:56:55 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:56:55 -0500 Subject: FW: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) Message-ID: RE Barry P's inquiry below: New England -- used in 1616 by John Smith in his _Description of New England_; this per Mathews Dict of Americanisms. Mathews has nothing very early on New York. Frank Abate ****************** What does the OED revision have? New York 1714? New England 1638? Will there be any dates/entries for "New Amsterdam" and "New Netherlands"? This is really for OED, but someone on the list can respond. I'd like to write something for the New-York Historical Society, and I'd like to see these entries. New York City is turning 350, so something closer to 1653 is more like it. Here's a check of EARLY ENGLISH BOOKS ONLINE: New Amsterdam--no hits New Netherland--William Castell A SHORT DISCOVERIE (1644) New York--Thomas Sprat COPIES OF THE INFORMATION (1685) New England--Peter Heylyn A LITTLE DESCRIPTION OF THE GREAT WORLD (1625); William Alexander, Earl of Stirling THE MAPP AND DESCRIPTION OF NEVV-ENGLAND (1630) (See also "'New England' Defined" at http://www.usm.maine.edu/~maps/exhibit2.sec4.htm) From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 1 10:42:53 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:42:53 -0500 Subject: FW: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) Message-ID: More on Barry P's query: New York -- King Charles II granted, by royal charter, all the land from the Connecticut River to the Delaware River to his brother, the Duke of York, in 1664. That document specifies what land is included (in the language of a deed), and may well refer to the granted territory as "New York"; I do not have immediate access to the entire document. In any case, the Duke of York took possession of New Amsterdam (present-day New York City; well, only the very S tip of Manhattan, really) with an armed fleet in 1664, and surely then imposed his name in order to wipe out the Dutchness of the place. The Dutch retook the city in 1673, but held it for only a brief time, as it was taken back by the English in 1674 by the Treaty of Westminster. In that same year the Duke of York "perfected his title" on the land by obtaining a new royal grant. (Brotherly love, I guess, and Philadelphia had nothing to do with it.) btw, in 1664 the Duke of York sold his title to what is now New Jersey to Lord John Berkeley and Sir George Carteret. And in 1682 he sold title to what is now Delaware and the land on the west bank of the Delaware River to William Penn. Further btw, this same Duke of York became King James II after Charles II died in 1685. He was only king briefly, however, as his Catholic leanings did not sit well on the throne of England. He was ousted and went into exile in France, and William (of Orange) and Mary were brought in to be monarchs for the UK. Frank Abate *********************** What does the OED revision have? New York 1714? New England 1638? Will there be any dates/entries for "New Amsterdam" and "New Netherlands"? This is really for OED, but someone on the list can respond. I'd like to write something for the New-York Historical Society, and I'd like to see these entries. New York City is turning 350, so something closer to 1653 is more like it. Here's a check of EARLY ENGLISH BOOKS ONLINE: New Amsterdam--no hits New Netherland--William Castell A SHORT DISCOVERIE (1644) New York--Thomas Sprat COPIES OF THE INFORMATION (1685) New England--Peter Heylyn A LITTLE DESCRIPTION OF THE GREAT WORLD (1625); William Alexander, Earl of Stirling THE MAPP AND DESCRIPTION OF NEVV-ENGLAND (1630) (See also "'New England' Defined" at http://www.usm.maine.edu/~maps/exhibit2.sec4.htm) From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Tue Apr 1 13:33:03 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:33:03 -0500 Subject: "embed" and "shock and awe" Message-ID: Geoffrey York has another article in today's Globe and Mail detailing the worsening tribulations experienced by "unilaterals": http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030329.uyork0401/BNStor y/International Note, too, that the term "unilateral" was in use during the first Gulf war: http://www.wordspy.com/words/unilateral.asp Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Abate" To: "ADS-L" ; "DSNA list," Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: [DSNA] "embed" and "shock and awe" > > For the details on one journalist's view of NOT being embedded, see the > article in the Globe and Mail: > > http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030322/FCCOVB/ > > . . . which Vida M already cited. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Tue Apr 1 16:55:34 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:55:34 EST Subject: FW: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/1/2003 5:43:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET writes: > his Catholic leanings > did not sit well on the throne of England. interesting metaphor. ?????????????????? - Jim Landau From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Tue Apr 1 18:19:16 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:19:16 -0500 Subject: Palm oil (1692) Message-ID: It's interesting that OED has "palm oil" in the sense of "bribe" from Thomas Middleton, Game of Chess, "a1627". Does this imply that "palm oil" = "oil from a palm nut" was already known to Middleton? The sense of "bribe" seems to be a joke on a preexisting literal meaning. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bapopik at AOL.COM Date: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:02 pm Subject: Palm oil (1692) > OED has 1705 for "palm oil." Some say it's bad for you; I > forgot which vacation I was on where it was used in everything. > From Early English Books Online: > > > Author: Salmon, William, 1644-1713. > Title: Medicina practica, or, Practical physick shewing the method > of curing the most usual diseases happening to humane bodies ... : > to which is added, the philosophick works of Hermes Trismegistus, > Kalid Persicus, Geber Arabs, Artesius Long?vus, Nicholas Flammel, > Roger Bachon and George Ripley : all translated out of the best > Latin editions into English ... : together with a singular comment > upon the first book of Hermes, the most ancient of philosophers : > the whole compleated in three books / by William Salmon ... > Publication date: 1692. > Search results: 1 match in full text > table of contents | view text | add to bookbag > SALMON'S Practical Physick. The First BOOK. > CHAP. XVII. Of BUBOES. > ? ... nces, Figgs three Ounces, Galbanum and Ammoniacum strained, > Le|ven, Mustard-seed, of each an Ounce, Palm Oil, Oil of Amber, > ana half an Ounce; mix, and make a Cataplasm. In a cold Bubo ... > From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 1 18:26:09 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:26:09 -0800 Subject: New York (OED 1714); New England (OED 1638) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > What does the OED revision have? New York 1714? New > England 1638? Will there be any dates/entries for "New > Amsterdam" and "New Netherlands"? > This is really for OED, but someone on the list can > respond. I'd like to write something for the New-York > Historical Society, and I'd like to see these entries. > New York City is turning 350, so something closer to 1653 > is more like it. My understanding is the OED does not include geographic names unless they are used attributively. The 1714 cite is for "New York Biscuit," (one of Barry's contributions?), not for the name of the city itself. Similarly the 1638 cite is for "New England men." From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Tue Apr 1 23:21:35 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 18:21:35 -0500 Subject: Query: Hat Trick in Dialect Notes Vol. 5 Message-ID: Please respond to the original submitter, and to the list, but not to me. D?but du message r?exp?di? : > De: "andrew podnieks" > Date: Tue 1 Apr 2003 17:20:15 America/New_York > Objet: Question for the ADS Webmaster > > I am hoping you can help me follow up on some research I did which led > me to the ADS. In Dialect Notes volume 5 (1918-1927) there is a > reference on page 449 to the following: "hat trick--the passing of the > hat for a collection at the end of a soap box oration" and I wonder if > you can tell me anything more about this. For instance, what date was > its first usage in this context? The reference falls in a section > entitled "The Jargon of the Underworld" and was compiled, I believe, > by Elisha K. Kane at the University of North Carolina. Is this person > still alive and working there? Are her notes for the discovery of this > word and usage available? Any information at all to delve further into > that term hat trick would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, Andrew Podnieks at moydartpress at idirect.com. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 02:47:56 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:47:56 EST Subject: Village Voice's "War Glossary" Message-ID: This week's VILLAGE VOICE has a "War Glossary": http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0314/cotts.php The terms are the usual stuff, with not much insight. "Cakewalk" is here--see COMMENTS ON ETYMOLOGY for the origin of that. "Coalition of the Willing" is here, but the true origin of the term isn't discussed. The usual VILLAGE VOICE Bush-bashing is in some of the definitions. "Theives of Iraq" is curiously defined as being based on the Egyptian movie THIEVES OF THAILAND. What???? No one remembers the classic Douglas Fairbanks movie, THIEF OF BAGDAD (1924)? It's been remade many times since then. Thailand???? From douglas at NB.NET Wed Apr 2 06:22:31 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 01:22:31 -0500 Subject: up the wazoo/kazoo In-Reply-To: <000801c2f807$9657ef40$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: >RHDHAS lists "kazoo" to mean "anus" from 1965. I tend to think, at least >in the US, that the term "wazoo" has, in the last 10-20 years, overtaken >"kazoo" in phrases such as "blow it out your wazoo" and "up your wazoo." In my own experience (not necessarily representative) "wazoo" was more prevalent than "kazoo" for "anus" all along ... that's since ca. 1965. There is also "gazoo" (in HDAS), and there are many variants (e.g., one acquaintance uses "[up the] gazooby"). >Along with "wazoo" we would also like to know about the use of "...out >your ying/yang." I've heard this since the 1970's. Chapman's dictionary shows 1960's, and shows "ying-yang" for "penis" as well as "anus". I've heard both, and I've also heard "wazoo" used for "penis". I think all of these terms (also "flimflam", "ding-dong", etc., in similar use) are basically pseudo-euphemisms equivalent to "thingamajig" or "whatsis" or "dingus" or "whangdoodle" (which is the likely ancestor of "wang" = "penis" IMHO). A word which means "nameless organ" can easily be transferred from "penis" to "anus", and MAYBE this is what happened to "kazoo" (originally a tubular musical instrument). [I do NOT believe "ying-yang" is a direct descendent of Chinese "yin-yang", nor a calque.] -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 08:10:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 03:10:19 EST Subject: White Tea; Rose Hip Tea (1960) Message-ID: WHITE TEA No OED entry. From the WALL STREET JOURNAL, 1 April 2003, pg. D8, col. 1: _Wave of White Tea Is Coming_ THIS YEAR'S hot ingredient, whether in a beverage or a cosmetic, is _white tea_. Already the basis for a skin-care line, "A Perfect World," by Estee Lauder's Origins brand, white tea is expected to show up soon in vitamins, hair-care products and fragrances. 24 September 1994, GROCER (Dow Jones database), pg. 37: _Instant withdrawal Withdraws Scottish Blend and PG Tips brands of instant white tea, but may reintroduce them later._ 20 April 1998, INTERNATIONAL PRODUCT ALERT (Dow Jones): Tea Total is the name of what is touted as the first Instant White Tea to be marketed in the United Kingdom. Launched by Asda, the tea is described as a combination of Indonesian tea and low-fat whitener in a tea bag. It has been developed so that the whitener dissolves immediately and the tea diffuses slowly. In this way, consumers can achieve a milky cup in about 30 seconds, or can get a strong cup of tea by leaving the bag to steep for longer. 20 March 2000, U. S. NEWSWIRE (Dow Jones): They (Oregon State University researchers--ed.) presented their research--the first on white tea--at the 219th national meeting of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society. Among the rarest and most expensive varieties of tea, white tea is produced almost exclusively in China. Typed DrawingWord Mark WHITE TEA Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: Beverages, namely tea Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75566343 Filing Date October 6, 1998 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Owner (APPLICANT) Kabbani, Janice H. DBA ROZEZ, Ltd. SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP ARIZONA 7837 N. 47th Street Paradise Valley ARIZONA 85253 Attorney of Record Thomas W. Cole Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date September 16, 1999 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- ROSE HIP TEA OED has 1964 for "rose hip tea." 25 April 1960, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 35: Confined to tea bags are such flavors as rose hip, sarsaparilla, papaya leaf and alfalfa peppermint teas. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 08:56:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 03:56:49 EST Subject: Black Drama database; Tillamook (1908) Message-ID: BLACK DRAMA DATABASE NYU gets a BLACK DRAMA database. The plays are from 1850 to the present. It's from the same people who do the "letters and diaries" databases (Civil War; North American Women; British and Irish Women). Maybe an NYU Bobst Library librarian who wrote a book on the AFRICAN THEATRE knows more about it. I didn't find it that helpful. SLANG--Only 15 uninteresting hits. SOUL FOOD--"Soul food, bitch" is in A MINOR SCENE (1966) by Ed Bullins. BIG APPLE--"Wouldn't you like to ride up to the Big Apple with me, and let me treat you to a wimpy?" is in JOY TO MY SOUL (1937) by Langston Hughes. BOOGIE WOOGIE--"Boogie woogie" in SHAKESPEARE IN HARLEM (1942) by Langston Hughes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- DRAG RACE, OLD COLLEGE TRY The "drag race" article is at: http://espn.go.com/magazine/ I'm having trouble opening the site up. I don't know if my work got in--I always get contacted on these things late. I went to the local newsstand and bought the March 31, 2003 ESPN MAGAZINE, but it looks like it's last week's issue."What's the old college try?" (by the same ANSWER GUY who contacted me) is on page 42. He asked "Ask Oxford" (Margot Charlton answered), who read the 1927 citation from the HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG, which got it from our own AMERICAN SPEECH. I had posted 1919 and 1924 citations here. Oxford should have my work.. Where did my work go? Yeesh. Two "answer guys" miss my stuff in the past three days. That's why I do parking tickets. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- TILLAMOOK Is DARE interested in "Tillamook"? Let's check out the whiz behind Fairway's cheese section, the big cheese himself: CHEESE PRIMER by Steve Jenkins New York: Workman Publishing 1996 Pg. 419: TILLAMOOK COUNTY CREAMERY ASSOCIATION This is a big outfit, a cooperative that dates back to 1909. This arrived today from NYPL's "offsite": REPORT OF THE 1907 CONVENTION OF THE OREGON STATE DAIRY ASSOCIATION Portland, Oregon: Oregon State Dairy Association 1908 Pg. 46 (Captions to three photos--ed.): IN TILLAMOOK COUNTY (1) Many large barns like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. (2) Many cheese factories like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. (3) Tons of cheese in curing room of one of Tillamook County factories. From orinkh at CARR.ORG Wed Apr 2 17:11:36 2003 From: orinkh at CARR.ORG (Orin Hargraves) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:11:36 -0500 Subject: war words glossed Message-ID: For anyone who hasn't had his/her fill, here is the BBC's roundup of war words: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2909173.stm Orin Hargraves From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed Apr 2 17:45:33 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:45:33 -0800 Subject: Black Drama database; Tillamook (1908) In-Reply-To: <143.dd9a252.2bbbffd1@aol.com> Message-ID: Coming from only a few counties away ... I'm wondering about the following. Tillamook Cheese is a brand name rather than a particular type of cheese. Tillamook is the brand name used by the TCCA. From their website (www.tillamookcheese.com): "Back in 1909 the farmers of Tillamook County joined hands, so to speak, and formed the Tillamook County Creamery Association (TCCA) to serve as quality control. Later TCCA expanded to incorporate all 25 operating cheese factories in Tillamook County, Oregon. To this day, the cooperative continues to produce top quality milk, dairy products and a sound future for the farmers of our beautiful Oregon valley. We are committed to stewardship of the environment and community involvement." The cites in the 1907 report refer to barns and cheese factories, located in Tillamook County, but I don't think they show a usage of "Tillamook cheese" either as a brand or a type although they document a cheese making industry in Tillamook County (as a kid I don't remember them producing anything but cheddar cheese, although now they have jack, colby and cheese curds, as well as ice-cream and other dairy products). For anyone visiting the Oregon coast, it's a worthwhile place to stop. FWIW Tillamook is pronounced TIL at muk, at least by me. allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > TILLAMOOK > > Is DARE interested in "Tillamook"? Let's check out the whiz behind > Fairway's cheese section, the big cheese himself: > > CHEESE PRIMER > by Steve Jenkins > New York: Workman Publishing > 1996 > Pg. 419: TILLAMOOK COUNTY CREAMERY ASSOCIATION > This is a big outfit, a cooperative that dates back to 1909. > > This arrived today from NYPL's "offsite": > > REPORT OF THE 1907 CONVENTION OF THE > OREGON STATE DAIRY ASSOCIATION > Portland, Oregon: Oregon State Dairy Association > 1908 > Pg. 46 (Captions to three photos--ed.): > IN TILLAMOOK COUNTY > (1) Many large barns like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. > (2) Many cheese factories like this in Tillamook County, Oregon. > (3) Tons of cheese in curing room of one of Tillamook County factories. > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 18:19:24 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:19:24 EST Subject: war words glossed Message-ID: newspaper headline recently: "Iraq's Best Lie In Wait At Gap" Hmm. Now we know where Credibility Gap is. - Jim Landau From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Wed Apr 2 18:22:01 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:22:01 -0800 Subject: war words glossed In-Reply-To: <1ec.5ac7a3c.2bbc83ac@aol.com> Message-ID: Does 'Credibility Gap' also have a division called 'Army and Navy'? :) Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of James A. Landau Sent: April 2, 2003 10:19 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: war words glossed newspaper headline recently: "Iraq's Best Lie In Wait At Gap" Hmm. Now we know where Credibility Gap is. - Jim Landau From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Wed Apr 2 18:58:00 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:58:00 -0800 Subject: Black Drama database; Tillamook (1908) Message-ID: >>> maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU 04/02/03 09:45AM >>> >FWIW Tillamook is pronounced TIL at muk, at least by me. Right on. Fritz From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 2 20:07:11 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:07:11 EST Subject: war words glossed Message-ID: Mona Charen has a column on America On-Line News today in which she states, in a discussion of Peter Arnett: Remember the phrase, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"? It has become totemic. Arnett was the originator of the phrase. The trouble is, as first B.G. Burkett and then I discovered after a little investigation, the report was wrong. It wasn't the United States that destroyed Ben Tre (a town, not a village), but the Vietcong. And the soldier Arnett was most likely quoting remembers saying, "It was a shame the town was destroyed," not the fatuity Arnett made famous. Does anyone know if Charen is correct? - Jim Landau From millerk at NYTIMES.COM Wed Apr 2 20:42:13 2003 From: millerk at NYTIMES.COM (Kathleen E. Miller) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:42:13 -0500 Subject: war words glossed In-Reply-To: <25.36c10064.2bbc9cef@aol.com> Message-ID: At 03:07 PM 4/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Mona Charen has a column on America On-Line News today in which she states, >in a discussion of Peter Arnett: > > >Remember the phrase, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"? It >has become totemic. Arnett was the originator of the phrase. The trouble is, >as first B.G. Burkett and then I discovered after a little investigation, the >report was wrong. It wasn't the United States that destroyed Ben Tre (a town, >not a village), but the Vietcong. And the soldier Arnett was most likely >quoting remembers saying, "It was a shame the town was destroyed," not the >fatuity Arnett made famous. > > >Does anyone know if Charen is correct? > > - Jim Landau There is a contemporary report in the New York Times: "At Ben Tre, a once placid Mekong Delta river city with a population of 35,000, and unnamed United States major looked out last week over the wreckage in which 500 and possibly 1,000 civilians dead and told Peter Arnett of the Associated Press: "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it." Nothing happening in the world of finance, economics, or newspapering in the week can compare to what happened at Ben Tre. Nevertheless, the upside-down logic that brought down 500-pound bombs, napalm, rockets, antipersonnel bombs, and 105 millimeter artillery shells on the city - "to save it" - may have parallels." Two Kinds of Warfare; Parallels Found Between Psychology Of Vietnam and Defense of the Dollar; By ALBERT L. KRAUS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 14, 1968; pg. 61, 2 pgs But that doesn't mean that's the way it happened. Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The New York Times From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Apr 2 23:04:19 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:04:19 -0800 Subject: war words glossed In-Reply-To: <25.36c10064.2bbc9cef@aol.com> Message-ID: >Mona Charen has a column on America On-Line News today in which she states, >in a discussion of Peter Arnett: > > >Remember the phrase, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"? I heard something similar on the news yesterday (in SF) via Pete Wilson, a reporter I trust. He didn't mention the different village, but did mention that other soldiers & reporters there heard no such thing, and that the officer supposedly quoted doesn't remember saying any such thing. Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 02:06:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:06:07 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966); "New York" & "New England" in maps Message-ID: MANZANA Robert S. Gold's JAZZ LEXICON (1962) is in the NYU Bobst Library. It was his Ph.D. thesis paper, and it became a book in 1964. This is from JAZZ TALK (Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill Company, Inc., 1975) by Robert S. Gold, pg. 4: _apple (big)_ (...) 1966 _Record Research_, June, pg. 7. My suspicion (is) that _Big Apple_ is a (Pg. 5--ed.) transliteration of the older Mexican idiom "Manzana principale" for the main square of the town of the downtown area. Because Michael Quinion was interested, I rechecked RECORD RESEARCH. The citation's wrong. It's worth quoting at length. From RECORD RESEARCH, _January_ 1966, pg. 7: BEYOND THE IMPRESSION ETYMOLOGY REPORTED BY JOHN STEINER (...) If anyone wanted to take JAZZ LEXIKON (sic) apart, he could do a far job using only the legends on phonograph records as the source for words and phrases used in specific connotation by jazz and bluesmen. For exmple, Gold omits HEEBIE JEEBIES which could be defined with another title: jangles nerves. He overlooks ROCKS IN MY BED as the kind of blues which causes insomnia, and that DOWN TO THE BRICKS means either 1) broke or 2) disconsolate, depending on context. He includes most of the miscellaneous instruments, but forgot the GOOFUS. He didn't recognize a BUFFET FLAT as a musical speakeasy (anyway invariably food, usually music). His definition of "struggle" did not include the meaning implied when Oliver immortalized the infirm second-hand auto with the appelation STRUGGLE BUGGY. While listing the inferior "stick", "reefer" and even ignoble "roach", Gold does Mezz and history an injustice in omitting the king-size MEZZ. Gold is rich in vulgarities, but on naughty words, he is vague (ill-informed?) and embarrassed. See his sparse and inaccurate definition of a "fruit" and of the suffix "-assed". On sexualia he is weak too. Appelations are quickly spread after they get onto a record label. A warm "jellyroll" is also a WARM VALLEY, CONGAINE, BEEDLE UM BUM, and MOJO. However, to Muddy Waters it seems that a mojo may be a BLACK SNAKE or what Cab called a trilon, and there are two of them in WANG wang Blues. Perhaps Gold is safer in not even trying to clarify Horace Henderson's KITTY ON TOAST, or the implication of BOY IN THE BOAT. Gold mentions a lof of the dances which are named on record labels including the cake and camel walk, but not the LAMBETH or CASTLE. He mentions the big apple, and drag, and walking the dog and the scrontch (according to Waller) which he spells s-c-r-a-u-n-c-h, with some basis for so-doing. But he calls the scrontch a drag or mooch and that hardly seems to describe the bent-knee and wiggled-rump figure I have seen or the tempo that Waller uses. (Does Scrontch derive from "squat" and "hunch"?). He didn't include HUNCH or POSIN', the hesitation figure, and he didn't observe that a SKUFFLE was a 1) generic term for dancing, or 2) when used as a verb, it related to JOBBING with so-so sucess. The TEXAS TOMMY is lacking; and it is omitted that those who dance these jazz dances are HOOFERS. When Billy and Mary Mack's Merrymakers' hoofers criss-crossed each other, the dance was called a TWINE. In addition some jazzical terms are omitted which do not necessarily appear on phonograph records. Although he includes "spades" and "ofays", there are no JIGS or CHARLIES. At least locally, GAGGED signifies playing below par as when "juiced" or "high" or "dragged"; but even when the word is included in LEXICON, juiced is not clearly distinguished from high, and dragged does not clearly state fatigued or bored, as I mean to imply. And if Gold is to include interjections such as "yeah, man" and "oowee", I petition for inclusion in the next edition HOY (from Lambeth Walk), HOTCHA, and maybe SHOOT THE LIKKER TO ME, JOHN-BOY. Some meanings are given for "blast", but to a musician a blast is also a telephone call. I can see why Gold might prefer to leave MAINSTEM to a theatrical lexicographer, despite its being a jazz title; and why he might assign MAINLINER to a junky monographer. But I would be grateful to him if he would confirm or deny my suspicion that BIG APPLE is a transliteration of the older Mexican idion "mazana principal" for the main square of the town or the downtown area. A "face" is more than Gold says, that is, he is less than Gold says; he is an anonymous nobody, a musician of underdeveloped or limited talent. Bechet wouldn't have clled him a MUSICIANER. Only lately Ink Williams explained to me that the C. C. PILL extended the ecstacy and potency of the C. C. (or See See) rider, but Gold doesn't tell you--and I must apologize because I can't--whether the gouge (an overpriced dame) of Armour Avenue whom the rider met on his (be)fo' day(break) CREEP (hence, he was a creep or creeper) was a floogie (flatfooted and/or dual floy'd). This invented the Big Apple "manzana theory." John Ciardi, writing in the 1970s in the SATURDAY REVIEW and in a letter to THE NEW YORK TIMES, added that it was used by jazz musicians of New Orleans around 1910. There never was any evidence--it was all guessing. I have NEW YORK MORNING TELEGRAPH "Big Apple" citations from Tijuana (Mexico) and Santa Anita (California, "the Big Apple of the West"). "Manzana" was not used in those articles. For the record, an earlier "manzana" is this: Title: The big apple : fox trot = La manzana grande / Author(s): Wright, Edythe,; d. 1965. ; (Vocalist - voc); Dorsey, Tommy,; 1905-1956. ; (Performer - prf); Waller, Fats,; 1904-1943. ; (Performer - prf) Corp Author(s): Clambake Seven (Musical group). ; (Performer - prf); Rhythm (Musical group). ; (Performer - prf) Publication: Camden, N.J. :; Victor, Year: 1937, 1936 Description: 1 sound disc :; analog, 78 rpm, mono. ;; 10 in. Language: English Music Type: Multiple forms; Jazz; Dance forms Standard No: Publisher: 25652; Victor SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Jazz -- 1931-1940. Foxtrots. Note(s): Participants: Edythe Wright, vocal, Tommy Dorsey, Clambake Seven (side A) ; Fats Waller, piano, Rhythm (side B)./ Recorded in New York, Aug. 13, 1937 (side A) and June 8, 1936 (side B)--Cf. Jazz records, 1897-1942 / Rust, c1978. Other Titles: Manzana grande.; Fractious fingering.; Dedos resbalosos. Responsibility: Buddy Bernier, Bob Emmerick ; [performed by] Tommy Dorsey & his Clambake Seven. Fractious fingering : fox trot = Dedos resbalosos / Thomas Waller ; [performed by] "Fats" Waller and his Rhythm Material Type: Music (msr); 78 rpm (78s) Document Type: Sound Recording Entry: 19940308 Update: 20020218 Accession No: OCLC: 29927679 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- "NEW YORK" AND "NEW ENGLAND" IN MAPS I went to the NYPL map division (I also went to SIBL to find that my offsite ORGANIC GARDENING books hadn't arrived--three NYPL branches in one day) to check out "New York" and "New England" on maps. It's earlier than the Early English Books Online citations: MANHATTAN IN MAPS 1527-1995 by Paul E. Cohen and Robert T. Augustyn New York: Rizzoli 1997 Pg. 20: THE VELASCO MAP Date Depicted: 1610 Date Drawn: 1610 (...) On the map, versions of Manhattan's present name (_Manahatn_ and _Manhatta_) appear for the first time. (OED has revised its "Manhattan" entry and the first citation is 1816. In the etymology section of the definition, 1625 is cited--ed.) Pg. 44: THE NICOLLS MAP The Towne of New-York Date Depicted: c. 1664-68 Date Drawn: c. 1664-68 Pg. 45: The inset plan in the upper right corner, entitled "The Towne of New-York," is the earliest instance of the use of the new name on a map. (OED revision?--ed.) NEW-ENGLAND IN EARLY PRINTED MAPS 1513 TO 1800 Compiled by Barbara Backus McCorkle Providence: John Carter Brown Library 2001 Pg. 16: Map 614.1 "A Desciption of New England" Observed and described by Captayn John Smith, 1614. From gcohen at UMR.EDU Thu Apr 3 02:24:16 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:24:16 -0600 Subject: Fwd: "jazz" and Irish "teas" Message-ID: This is a footnote to the suggestion advanced a week or so ago on ads-l that "jazz" derives from Irish "teas". The new message is from Jim Rader (of Merriam-Webster) and I now share it with his permission. Gerald Cohen >Organization: Merriam-Webster Inc. >To: gcohen at umr.edu >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:51:37 -0500 >Subject: "Jazz" and "teas" >Reply-to: jrader at Merriam-Webster.com > >Someone in the office directed me to a recent exchange on on >ADS-L. (I dropped off a few years ago but I occasionally check the >archives.) The idea that is borrowed from Irish is not >very plausible. On a simple phonetic basis there's a mismatch >because both consonants in are voiceless in all dialects of Irish. >Slender is an affricate from about Mayo north, and in Scottish >Gaelic, but from Connemara south to Munster it's a palatalized [t], very >similar to Russian soft , but maybe with less fricative release. ... From gcohen at UMR.EDU Thu Apr 3 02:27:19 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:27:19 -0600 Subject: Fwd (from Norm Cohen):"jazz" Message-ID: Norm Cohen (no relation) recently sent me a message about "jazz", and with his permission I present it below my signoff. It pertains to the early attestations of "jazz" in a musical sense. OED gives 1917 as the earliest attestation of "jazz" in a musical sense; (set aside the 1909 example as an error). Meanwhile, Irving Lewis Allen, _The City In Slang_, 1993, p.71, citing Gunther Schuller's 1968 _Early Jazz..._, says: "In 1915 jazz was introduced to New Yorkers in a vaudeville theater by Freddie Keppard's Creole Band, but few took notice." Gerald Cohen >From: "Norm Cohen" >To: "Cohen, Gerald" >Subject: "jazz" >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:32:52 -0800 > >Gerald: >I came across the following reference to "jass," which while not earth >shaking provides more evidence for its use in 1916. >"According to the _Chicago Defender_, in October 1916 African American >entertainer Estelle Harris was performing Spencer Williams's tune >"Sihim-Me-Sha-Wabble" with her "jass [sic] singers and dancers" at the South >Side's Grand Theater, located just across the street from the Elite No. 1." >footnote reference: Chicago Defender, Sept. 30, 1916, and Oct. 14, 1916. >This from an article by Rebecca A. Bryant, "Shaking Things Up: Popularizing >the Shimmy in America," in American Music v. 20 no. 2 (Summer 2002),168-187. >The above quote is on p 170. The "sic" is hers. >Norm From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Thu Apr 3 02:40:39 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:40:39 -0500 Subject: Changes to Unicode Message-ID: It's a couple days late, but I thought everyone might appreciate this April 1 working group document from the International Organization for Standardization recommending the inclusion of new characters into the Unicode set: http://www.evertype.com/standards/iso10646/pdf/n258a-heartdot.pdf It's a smallish PDF file. -- Grant Barrett Editor, World New York http://www.worldnewyork.org/ gbarrett at worldnewyork.org From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 03:19:41 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:19:41 -0500 Subject: Food Stylist (1936, 1938); OT: Food in Film Message-ID: FOOD STYLIST Not in OED. From EMMY MAGAZINE, March/April 1987, pages 48-51: Pg. 48: She and the two hundred or so people in her business, most of whom are women, earn up to five hundred dollars per day creating the perfect, colorful, mouthwatering food that appears in television food commercials and, occasionally, movies nationwide. Pg. 48: The advertisers' concern for accuracy grew out of the landmark 1970 court case in which the Federal Trade Commission ruled a Campbell's Soup commercial was deceptive because it used marbles at the bottoms of soup bowls to make the vegetables protrude above the soup. (Pg. 49--ed.) The stylist must sign a non-disclosure form to protect the secrecy of the product ingredients and another form stating that she has complied with FTC rules. Pg. 49: Food styling is a lucrative business in Hollywood, Chicago, and other cities where local commercials are made, and jobs are plentiful. New York remains the biggest styling market in the United States because of the large number of commercials made there. There are many NEW YORK TIMES classified hits. Most are from the 1960s, but these two are the earliest: 2 August 1936, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. RE15, col. 8: FOOD STYLIST for large New York hotel; must have imagination, be able to express food terms in pure English, write attractive bills of fare and understand food merchandizing; give experience, age, &c. in first letter. 4 September 1938, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 132, col. 3: FOOD STYLIST, knowledge of food, presentation, menus, display and merchandizing novel and practical ideas, to increase food sales; also to assist chef in daily preparation of menus; large patronage; give all details in first letter as to previous experience, age, education and salary. The following are some "food stylist" titles from OCLC WorldCat: Odd jobs / Author: Weiss, Ellen, 1949-; Ross, Damon, Publication: New York : Aladdin Paperbacks, 2000 Document: English : Book : Elementary and junior high school Professional careers in the food industry Author: Colter, Kieth. Publication: Bloomington, Ill. : Meridian Education Corp., 1999 Document: English : Visual Material : Videorecording : VHS tape Recipe treasury / recipes compiled by Miriam B. Loo ; book designer, Annetta Wheat ; photographer, Ron Oatney ; food stylist, Marjorie Read. Author: Loo, Miriam B. Publication: Colorado Springs, Colo. : Current Inc., 1982 Document: English : Book Cool careers without college for people who love food / Author: Hinton, Kerry. Publication: New York : Rosen Pub. Group, 2002 Document: English : Book : Juvenile audience --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: FOOD IN FILM "Yes! Yes! Oh, yes! Yes! Oh God! Yes! Yes! Yes! YES! YES! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!" --Meg Ryan in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989) I really should take my first dates to Katz's Deli, but they never do look like Meg Ryan. The NYPL's performing arts library's clipping files aren't great for food. A clipping from September 1981 of the Denver Center Cinema's Great International Food Film Festival contained these films: WHO IS KILLING THE GREAT CHEFS OF EUROPE?, SOYLENT GREEN, GARLIC IS AS GOOD AS TEN MOTHERS, THE ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES (filmed version of Andrew Smith's books), THE LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, MILDRED PIERCE, FATSO, TOM JONES, WILLY WONKA AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY, THE DISCREET CHARM OF THE BOURGEOISIE, WHISKEY GALORE, WHAT'S UP TIGER LILY?, and THE GOOD EARTH. An article on food documentaries was in the NEW YORK TIMES, 18 March 1992, pg. C8. This amusing quotation is from M. F. K.: A DOCUMENTARY ON THE LIFE OF MARY FRANCES KENNEDY FISHER: "Even in the worst book," she says, waving a microphone, "there is one jewel, the jewel in a toad's head. I just don't have the time anymore to look for it. All these idea books. The story of bread or the story of potatoes. Some editor will say, 'Well, write about peanuts.' And some poor soul does." These titles are from OCLC WorldCat: MD TOWSON UNIV TSC (Only library--ed.) Title: Dining in the dark : a cultural analysis of food in American film / Author(s): Newberg, Michael Robert. Year: 1997 Description: vi, 136 leaves : ill. ; 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. Food habits. Mass media and culture. Note(s): Vita./ Includes bibliographical references (leaves 132-136)./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.A.) - Towson State University, 1997. Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F6 Responsibility: by Michael Robert Newberg. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19970714 Update: 19970714 Accession No: OCLC: 37290651 Database: WorldCat DC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS DLC (Only library so far--ed.) Title: Food in film : a culinary performance of communication / Author(s): Ferry, Jane, 1941- Publication: New York : Routledge, Projected Date: 0307 Year: 2003 Description: p. cm. Language: English Series: American popular history & culture; Variation: American popular history and culture (Routledge (Firm)) Standard No: ISBN: 0415945836 (alk. paper); LCCN: 2003-46530 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. Note(s): Includes bibliographical references and index. Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F65; Dewey: 791.43/655 Responsibility: Jane F. Ferry. Document Type: Book Entry: 20030317 Update: 20030327 Accession No: OCLC: 51931190 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 03:41:21 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 22:41:21 -0500 Subject: Film Scripts Online and more databases Message-ID: http://www.alexanderstreetpress.com/product.sheet.overview.htm Columbia University also has the BLACK DRAMA database. The NYPL has Harlem's Schomburg Center and Lincoln Center's Performing Arts Library, but neither has BLACK DRAMA so far. Alexander Street Press (web address above) has some interesting databases, but I don't know when/if the local libraries will get them. AMERICAN FILM SCRIPTS ONLINE should be a sure bet for the NYPL's performing arts library, but no one there knows anything. ASIAN AMERICAN DRAMA should be a sure bet for Columbia University, which has a school of Asian studies. It might have some Chinese and Japanese food terms. NORTH AMERICAN IMMIGRANT LETTERS, DIARIES, AND ORAL HISTORIES should be a sure bet for all three of the NYPL, NYU, and Columbia. It might have Italian food terms such as "pizza" and Jewish food such as "bagel." EARLY ENCOUNTERS IN NORTH AMERICA covers America to 1850. Again, all three libraries should get this. I'll be looking for "johnnycake" and "doughnut" and more. Perhaps George Thompson knows NYU's plans for these databases? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 04:35:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:35:49 -0500 Subject: Salad Spinner (1973) Message-ID: SALAD SPINNER Not an OED entry, but there is one citation from 1985. There are no trademarks for the thing. It was heavily advertised in the NEW YORK TIMES. 5 August 1973, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 37 ad: SALAD SPINNER. Crisper salads start here. Our French salad spinner spins dry your greens in seconds for better tasting salads. (...) HOFFRITZ has it --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: FOOD IN FILM I forgot to mention that I read through REEL MEALS, SET MEALS: FOOD IN FILM AND THEATRE (Sydney: Currency Press, 1999) by Gaye Poole. It's not great, and it's Australian and not American. The best thing was this quotation to start a chapter: Pg. 167: "There is no love in this Veal Marengo." _Wallflowering_ From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 05:35:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:35:38 -0500 Subject: Santa Claus melon & Christmas melon (1923) Message-ID: They're the same melon. Neither is in OED. 19 December 1911, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 20: _Stockholders Expected Such a Christmas Melon Last Year, Too, and Were Disappointed_. ("Melon" here is financial slang. I've got to do that dictionary, too--ed.) 23 May 1923, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 5 ad for Knickerbocker Ice Company: At Christmas comes the luscious Santa Claus melon. 19 December 1923, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 4 ad for Knickerbocker Ice Company: The Santa Claus Melon--These long, luscious Christmas melons have come all the way from South Africa to grace the Holiday table. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 05:58:52 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 00:58:52 -0500 Subject: Gravy Boat (1838, 1852, 1853, 1854) Message-ID: Those boat-shaped things used to pour gravy. Perhaps useful for the slang term "gravy train." OED's first citation is 1895, from the Montgomery Ward Catalogue. OED has 1747 for "sauce boat." (MAKING OF AMERICA--MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Gilman, Caroline Howard, 1794-1888. Title: Recollections of a southern matron. By Caroline Gilman. Publication date: 1838. (Pg. 350: ...one of the waiters, with a zeal worthy of a better course, jostled by another, who was reaching above my shoulder to deposit a gravy-boat, and knocked it over.) (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) 1. Gurney, Eliza Paul Kirkbride. "Letter from Eliza Paul Gurney to Hannah B. Mott, 1852" [Page 226 | Paragraph | Section | Document] the midnight watches, remembering what he said about cherishing our scruples and attending to them, and thus having more laid upon us, I endeavored to search and see whether there was anything in my own habitation that gave me uneasiness. The result of my cogitations is, I have ordered two silver gravy-boats and a silver dish to be put out of the way, and not to be forthcoming again. They were placed on the table without my direction, and I felt a little uneasy with it at the time, but I was beginning to get accustomed to seeing them there, and very likely the "scruple" would not have been 2. Koren, Else Elisabeth Hysing. "Diary of Else Elisabeth Koren, November, 1853" [Page 19 | Paragraph | Section | Document] This was not a pleasant day, especially because it was so disagreeable in the saloon-- foul air. Stormy weather continued yesterday, though it was a little better after noon For a few minutes the ship would be quite still, then it would lurch. The noon meal was fairly peaceful; I think only the gravy boat overturned. We sat on deck for a while yesterday. nevertheless, and saw a ship pass us; it is cheerful to see a sailing vessel once more. But we were driven below by a sea which struck us head on, and as there are not many places that are comfortable in so strong a wind, we Results Bibliography Gurney, Eliza Paul Kirkbride, 1801-1881, Letter from Eliza Paul Gurney to Hannah B. Mott, 1852, in Memoir and Correspondence of Eliza P. Gurney. Mott, Richard F. ed.. Philadelphia, PA: J.B. Lippincott & Co., 1884, pp. 377. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [1852] S139-D119 Koren, Else Elisabeth Hysing, 1832-1918, Diary of Else Elisabeth Koren, November, 1853, in The Diary of Elisabeth Koren 1853-1855. Nelson, David T.. Northfield, MN: Norwegian-American Historical Association, 1955, pp. 381. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [11-1-1853] S288-D003 (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) June, 1854 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XLVIII Page 569 COSTLY CHINA. HAVING seen much of primitive districts ourselves, where "china" is known as crockery, and dinner sets are "dishes," we can tell how incredible it will seem to some of our more remote readers, when we tell them there is a single set in our city now on sale, at the price of two thousand dollars. The cost of a small farm swallowed up in one set of dinner dishes, liable to breakage, too more liable than less precious ware. We quite agree with a favorite handmaid, to whom the advertisement was read " "La, ma'am, I shouldn't like to have the washin' and handlin' of 'em." Imagine the ease with which the possessor of this treasure would preside over his table, with his property at the mercy of careless or hurried waiting-men; his most elegant courtesies cut short by the imminent danger of a soup-tureen, valued at fifty dollars; the point of his choicest bon mot lost by the capsizing of a << gravy-boat>> . Better a dinner of herbs, from white stone ware, so far as equanimity is concerned. April, 1860 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LX Page 364 COOKING OF MEATS, ETC. BEEF A LA MODE. Round of beef is best for this purpose. With a sharp knife make incisions in the meat about an inch apart; make a dressing of butter, onion, and bread-crumbs, in the proportion of a pint of crumbs, one small onion finely chopped, and an ounce of butter, with pepper and salt to the taste; fill the incisions with this dressing; put the meat into a pot, with as little water as will suffice to cover it; cover it tightly down, and let it simmer for six or eight hours; when the meat is done, dish it up, and thicken the gravy with a little flour; put the meat in again, let it boil up once, and then serve it. VEAL POT-PIE. Cut up a portion of the best part of the neck of veal, wash, and season it with pepper and salt; line the sides of the pot with paste, put on the veal, with some pieces of paste rolled out and cut into squares, cut up some pieces of butter rolled in flour and add to it, pour in as much water as will cover it, and lay a sheet of paste on the top, leaving an opening in the centre; put the lid on the pot, and put it over a moderate fire; let it cook slowly till the meat is done; place the soft crust on a dish, then put the meat over it, and on the top lay the harder crust, with the brown side up; serve the gravy in a boat. To have the crust of a pot-pie brown, set the pot before the fire, and turn it frequently. ROAST LEG OP LAMB. Make deep incisions round the bone and in the flesh; prepare a dressing of bread-crumbs, salt, pepper, sweet marjoram, or savory, and as much butter as will make the crumbs adhere together; fill all the incisions with the dressing; season the meat with salt and pepper; roast it before a clear fire, and, when nearly done, dredge flour over, and baste it with the gravy; skim the fat off the gravy, and add a little flour mixed with water; let it boil once, and serve it in a << gravy-boat>> . From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 06:19:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:19:11 -0500 Subject: Minceur (Sept. 1975) Message-ID: The revised OED has "minceur" from the 29 October 1975 NEW YORK TIMES. As I showed earlier today with "manzana," you gotta re-check everything. A Practitioner of the New Cuisine Is Still Master of the Old; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 29, 1975; pg. 64, 1 pgs Recipes of a Master Chef For New Cuisine and Old; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 29, 1975; pg. 66, 1 pgs Cooking in the New French Style--and Cutting Down the Calories; New Style Recipes (cont'd); By CRAIG CLAIBORNE Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 1, 1975; pg. 50, 2 pgs The New French Food Revolution? Julia Child Says, 'Humph'; By JOHN KIFNER Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 5, 1975; pg. 12, 1 pgs The most radical and esthetic of the group--the Robespierre of the Roux--is Michel Guerard, who, in battling his own bulges, developed a striking departure he calls "La Cuisine Minceur," an almost diatetic style in which traditional sauces are abandoned, foods are cooked quickly in their own moisture, served with a julienne or puree of the vegetables in which they are cooked and wild herbs are emphasized. Mrs. Child expressed some doubts. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 06:50:57 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 01:50:57 -0500 Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) Message-ID: Vegetarians eat satan? Not in OED or Merriam-Webster. Over 17,000 Google hits. 30 November 1986, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 697: (Couldn't get full text for this, just an article summary without the word--ed.) Here are WorldCat titles: 1. Cooking with seitan : the complete vegetarian "wheat-meat" cookbook / Author: Jacobs, Barbara.; Jacobs, Leonard. Publication: Garden City Park, N.Y. : Avery Pub. Group, 1994 Document: English : Book 2. Cooking with seitan : delicious natural foods from whole grains / Author: Jacobs, Barbara.; Jacobs, Leonard. Publication: Tokyo ; New York : Japan Publications, 1987 Document: English : Book 3. Wheat gluten and seitan : bibliography and sourcebook, A.D. 535 to 1993 : detailed information on 462 published documents (extensively annotated bibliography), 363 commercial gluten and seitan products, 208 original interviews (many full text) and overviews, 104 unpublished archival documents / Author: Shurtleff, William, 1941-; Aoyagi, Akiko. Publication: Lafayette, CA : Soyfoods Center, 1994 Document: English : Book 4. Natural weight loss : the complete guide / Author: Harrison, Lewis. Publication: Naperville, Ill. : Sourcebooks, 2002 There's one trademark record: Word Mark SEITAN QUICK MIX Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 029. US 046. G & S: Wheat based meat substitute. FIRST USE: 19990301. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19990315 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 78069368 Filing Date June 15, 2001 Owner (APPLICANT) Dixie USA Inc. CORPORATION TEXAS 15555 FM 2920 Tomball TEXAS 77375 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date March 5, 2002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:10:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:10:28 -0500 Subject: Sheet Cake (1944) Message-ID: SEITAN--That date on the last post should have been changed to 1986-87, not 1990. The devil made me do it. --------------------------------------------------------------- SHEET CAKE Sheet cake? People eat sheet cake? What's it made out of? Is it any better than a cow pie or a meadow muffin? For various reasons, you don't see the name around much anymore. However, it's in this food dictionary I'm reading. The NEW YORK TIMES has 54 hits. 20 February 1944, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM27 ad for Presto Self Rising Cake Flour: ...sheet cake pan... 20 February 1945, NE YORK TIMES, pg. 16: ...seven pans of sheet cake for the hungry crew of an LST. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:24:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:24:44 -0500 Subject: Shot glass (1947) Message-ID: Shot glass? Who wants a "shot" glass? Give me a glass that isn't shot! Probably the same people eat seitan and sheet cake! OED has "shot glass" from 1955, when it was coined by playwright Arthur Miller. 10 April 1947, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 27: On the ground that it was badly drawn, the Governor vetoed a bill by Assemblyman Wilson C. Van Duzar to require that "jiggers" or "shot glasses" used to measure liquor at bars have a minimum capacity of one fluid ounce or multiples of one-half ounce if in excess of one ounce. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:43:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:43:00 -0500 Subject: Squaw candy (1943) Message-ID: The latest volume of DARE stops at "SK." What's coming up for "squaw candy"? I didn't see it last year in my trip to Alaska. Many people--those who don't read THE STRAIGHT DOPE--believe that "squaw"=vagina. So "squaw candy" is out. However, here it is on page 573 of the FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION. The NEW YORK TIMES is probably way off on this Alaskan term, but it's a start. 29 July 1943, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 15: "Smokehouses are getting the G. I. brush treatment this week," says the Alaskan fishing editor, "in preparation for the main run of salmon, which will then be cured into what the Aleuts call 'squaw candy.' It is a cross between pemmican, dead fish and a Virginia ham. A little goes a long way" and no doubt will be omitted from fishing recipes when the boys get back home from the fort. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 07:55:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:55:43 -0500 Subject: Snow pea (1943) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster have 1949 for "snow pea." These three (Chinese snow peas) are from the NEW YORK TIMES: 1. Adding the Chinese Touch; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 13, 1949; pg. SM36, 2 pgs 2. Foreign' Dishes; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 14, 1943; pg. SM20, 1 pgs 3. RICH PEAS AND BEANS; Chinese Varieties Which May Be Grown Here are Substitutes for Meat ; By ROBERTA MA; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 27, 1943; pg. X17, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 08:40:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 03:40:15 -0500 Subject: Tamari (1921, 1971) Message-ID: "Tamari" will be the last one for tonight. OED has 1977; Merriam-Webster has 1965...OK, so Jesse requested "teriyaki sauce." Can't I wait for the LOS ANGELES TIMES to check these in the Japanese-American community there? From JSTOR: Aspergillus flavus, A. oryzae, and Associated Species Charles Thom; Margaret B. Church American Journal of Botany, Vol. 8, No. 2. (Feb., 1921), pp. 103-126. Pg. 103: Cultures of fermented food products of the Orient made from rice, other cereals, and soy beans show a number of characteristic types of Aspergillus. (...) These organisms are recorded under the names A. _flavus_ Link, A. _oryzae_ Ahlb., A. _wentii_ Wehmer, and A. _tamari_ Kita. 2 December 1971, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 60: TAMARI DRESSING (...) Note: Tamari soy sauce is available at health food stores and Japanese groceries, as is soy oil. From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Thu Apr 3 09:27:24 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:27:24 +0100 Subject: Manzana (January 1966); "New York" & "New England" in maps In-Reply-To: <3D5B171F.06608F54.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: Barry Popik wrote: > But I would be grateful to him if he would confirm or deny my > suspicion that BIG APPLE is a transliteration of the older Mexican > idion "mazana principal" for the main square of the town or the > downtown area. ... > This invented the Big Apple "manzana theory." John Ciardi, > writing in the 1970s in the SATURDAY REVIEW and in a letter to THE > NEW YORK TIMES, added that it was used by jazz musicians of New > Orleans around 1910. There never was any evidence--it was all > guessing. Many thanks, as so often, for clearing up the details of the true citation. It was John Ciardi's note in his "A Browser's Dictionary" that led me to this idea in the first place. However, I'm not at all sure that the idea is as yet entirely ruled out on the basis of the evidence we have. Perhaps Barry or Gerald Cohen could comment further? > I have NEW YORK MORNING TELEGRAPH "Big Apple" citations from > Tijuana (Mexico) and Santa Anita (California, "the Big Apple of the > West"). "Manzana" was not used in those articles. But would a Spanish phrase appear untranslated in English-language articles of the period? Can we rule out a route of transmission of a calque into English at that time? It has been said that Spanish was not well known in New Orleans at this period, but it is not hard to imagine a loan translation appearing elsewhere and being transmitted, for example, among stablehands at racetracks. One obvious immediate approach is to determine whether the Spanish "manzana" or "manzana principal" in the sense of something highly desirable existed around 1910 - can anyone comment on this? If we find that "manzana principal" actually travelled from English into Spanish, of course, the whole theory falls down. -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From imran at BITS.BRIS.AC.UK Thu Apr 3 11:37:08 2003 From: imran at BITS.BRIS.AC.UK (Imran Ghory) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:37:08 +0100 Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) In-Reply-To: <200304030651.h336pFw18303@listserv.tau.ac.il> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Bapopik at AOL.COM > Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Vegetarians eat satan? > Not in OED or Merriam-Webster. Over 17,000 Google hits. > > > 30 November 1986, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 697: > (Couldn't get full text for this, just an article summary without the word--ed.) A 1984 usenet message spelling it "setan", http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=202%40bpa.UUCP&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain Imran -- http://bits.bris.ac.uk/imran From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Thu Apr 3 12:11:55 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:11:55 -0500 Subject: Google hits in a corpus-like format Message-ID: KwicOnGoogle: http://163.136.182.112/xyz01/ Paul http://www.wordspy.com/ From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Thu Apr 3 15:06:42 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:06:42 -0500 Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives In-Reply-To: <2209664F1C807643B7FA01C8230C0F99434241@col-mailnode03.col.missouri.edu> Message-ID: Matthew, I recall that sort of odd pronunciation that Sagan had, but it didn't occur to me at the time. I'd like to find a tape of him saying "billions and billions". I'd be interested in hearing what you find in Missouri. So far I've found nothing beyond what I included in my first post. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Gordon, Matthew J. Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:45 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Lower Great Plains implosives I think Ladefoged was thinking of Carl Sagan - "billions and billions" was a catch phrase of Sagan impressionists. I'm very intrigued by Herb's observations. I hadn't noticed implosives in Missouri, but then I mainly listen to vowels. I wonder if Alice or someone else could tell us whether there are acoustic cues for implosives that would be recognizable in a spectrogram. -----Original Message----- From: Herbert Stahlke [mailto:hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET] Sent: Mon 3/31/2003 9:02 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Cc: Subject: Lower Great Plains implosives A few years ago I posted a brief comment on implosives that I've heard from speakers from the Lower Great Plains, a label I've made up for a region running from Oklahoma and northern Texas up to southern Nebraska and east into Missouri and Arkansas. This is not by way of defining an isogloss, because I haven't surveyed the area and I don't know how far the phenomenon extends. I'm basing it on where the speakers I've heard are from. The phenomenon is that initial voiced stops in stressed syllables become implosives. This appears not to happen in consonant+liquid clusters, and it doesn't happen finally or in unstressed syllables. Ladefoged mentions that implosives sometimes occur in English for emphasis and gives the example "billions and billions" where both /b/ are imploded. I haven't observed this myself, and it doesn't sound as if he and I are referring to the same phenomenon. However, this is the only published reference I've seen to implosives in English. I've also found a reference by Fred Cummins http://cspeech.ucd.ie/~fred/courses/phonetics/airstream1.html to an implosive /b/ that he associates impressionistically with a Texas accent. Does anyone know of other published or www discussions of implosives in American English (I don't know if Ladefoged's reference is American)? Herb From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Thu Apr 3 16:07:24 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:07:24 -0500 Subject: Fwd (from Norm Cohen):"jazz" Message-ID: Keppard/Kepperd/Kepard/Keperd and several other possible misspellings don't show up in the Historical NYTimes from the 1910s. "Elaine & Her Creole Band" played at an All-Star Theatrical Benefit at the Shubert Theater, W44th, on May 21, 1916, advertized (in small type) on May 19 & 21. I have friends at the Shubert ARchive & will ask them whether they have any information of Elaine, esp. whether her Creole Band played jazz or whether Keppard ever played the Shubert chain, calling his music jazz. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Cohen Date: Wednesday, April 2, 2003 9:27 pm Subject: Fwd (from Norm Cohen):"jazz" > Norm Cohen (no relation) recently sent me a message about "jazz", > and with his permission I present it below my signoff. It pertains > to the early attestations of "jazz" in a musical sense. > > OED gives 1917 as the earliest attestation of "jazz" in a musical > sense; (set aside the 1909 example as an error). Meanwhile, Irving > Lewis Allen, _The City In Slang_, 1993, p.71, citing Gunther > Schuller's 1968 _Early Jazz..._, says: "In 1915 jazz was introduced > to New Yorkers in a vaudeville theater by Freddie Keppard's Creole > Band, but few took notice." > > Gerald Cohen > > > >From: "Norm Cohen" > >To: "Cohen, Gerald" > >Subject: "jazz" > >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:32:52 -0800 > > > >Gerald: > >I came across the following reference to "jass," which while not > earth>shaking provides more evidence for its use in 1916. > >"According to the _Chicago Defender_, in October 1916 African > American>entertainer Estelle Harris was performing Spencer > Williams's tune > >"Sihim-Me-Sha-Wabble" with her "jass [sic] singers and dancers" > at the South > >Side's Grand Theater, located just across the street from the > Elite No. 1." > >footnote reference: Chicago Defender, Sept. 30, 1916, and Oct. > 14, 1916. > >This from an article by Rebecca A. Bryant, "Shaking Things Up: > Popularizing>the Shimmy in America," in American Music v. 20 no. 2 > (Summer 2002),168-187. > >The above quote is on p 170. The "sic" is hers. > >Norm > From orinkh at CARR.ORG Thu Apr 3 18:03:55 2003 From: orinkh at CARR.ORG (Orin Hargraves) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:03:55 -0500 Subject: differ vt? In-Reply-To: <200304031211.h33CBxS20052@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: NPR correspondent Don Gonyea said in a newscast today that the President, addressing troops at camp Lejune, "did not really differ the message from what we've been hearing him say." Did Mr. Gonyea mean to say "vary" or has "differ" got a new job that not everyone knows about? --Orin Hargraves From jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST Thu Apr 3 18:10:01 2003 From: jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST (Jan Ivarsson TransEdit) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:10:01 +0200 Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" Message-ID: A translator colleague asks me about the following scene from "Love plus one" Episode #3.06, Original Airdate 11/9/2000 (JACK is showing WILL his new crush, MATTHEW.) MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? [JACK JUST STARES, SPEECHLESS] Ok, thanks. [MATTHEW TURNS AND WALKS AWAY] JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A SWEATER.] His question: When Will says "Does this come in a boot?", there is a roar of laughter from the audience. Why? What does it mean exactly? Jan Ivarsson, TransEdit Translator, Subtitler jan.ivarsson at transedit.st http://www.transedit.st From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 3 18:41:03 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:41:03 -0800 Subject: BE/AE Agreement Message-ID: Not long ago there was a brief discussion on this list of the difference between British and American English in the treatment of formally singular nouns that represent collective entities. In the course of this, I made the following observation: "On a trip through Heathrow Airport many years ago I was struck by an ad for a construction firm. The firm's name was Billy something--Barnham? Something like that. The ad said: "Billy Barnham built this terminal. Billy Barnham build everywhere." I've never run across a variety of AE where this would be acceptable." Jesse Scheidlower (who had started the thread), subsequently noted: "It's a general feature of British English that various kinds of group nouns tend to take plural concord, e.g. "British Telecom are profitable this quarter", "Manchester United have won the FA cup" [the frequency of this sort of construction in World Cup coverage, mentioned by another posted, is surely due to the reporters' being British in the examples in question], "The government are divided about how to...", etc." I don't think anyone challenged the last sentence in my post, but I recently ran across a quote that does. An article about the Pennsylvania Railroad's crack streamliner The Broadway Limited in the magazine Classic Trains quotes a 1953 written statement to employees by PRR Executive Vice President James Symes: "I happen to know from authentic sources that the New York Central are going 'all out' in attempting to re-establish the Twentieth Century Limited to its former position in the New York to Chicago Service" (Joe Welsh, The Broadway's best years," Classic Trains, Winter 2002, pp. 33-34). In a quick search for a couple of examples of equivalent British usage, I looked at the BBC's web site and discovered to my astonishment that the usage I noticed at Heathrow Airport 20 or more years ago (which, it now appears, was also the usage of at least some Americans as late as 1953) has been abandoned, at least by the BBC. On the web site today, the singular noun-plural verb usage pops up immediately in several headlines involving national sports teams: Pakistan total 278-7 in their Sharjah Cup match against Zimbabwe Fiji play down virus fear But businesses (and political groupings) now appear to have "gone singular," viz.: Al-Jazeera halts Iraq broadcasts British Airways cuts more flights EU acts on French deficit Previously, according to parallel examples I've seen through the years, these would have been "Al-Jazeera halt," "British Airways cut" and "EU act." Can any of our British list members confirm this development across the Atlantic? Does anybody know of an article treating this subject? Peter Mc. **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 19:09:46 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:09:46 EST Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST writes: > MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? > Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, > gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? > JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. > > WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A > SWEATER.] The only likely interpretation of "Does this come in a boot?" that would make the audience laugh is the straightforwards one, "Can I find a pair of boots in this color and/or pattern?" This interpretation also fits with the rest of the quoted dialogue, which is about trying to find color matches to Matthew's trousers. The humor seems to lie not in the dialogue itself but rather in what the sweater looks like---to get a big laugh the sweater will have to have colors or a pattern that is quite implausible to find in pair of boots. A speaker of British English might interpret "in a boot" to mean "in the boot of a car" but I can't see how that would be funny. - Jim Landau PS. Am I imagining things, or did you find a television program about a homosexual menage a trois? From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 19:13:05 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:13:05 EST Subject: differ vt? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:05:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, orinkh at CARR.ORG writes: > NPR correspondent Don Gonyea said in a newscast today that the President, > addressing troops at camp Lejune, "did not really differ the message from > what we've been hearing him say." Did Mr. Gonyea mean to say "vary" or has > "differ" got a new job that not everyone knows about? He meant to say "the message did not really differ..." It turns out that Mr. Bush's malapropisms really are contagious. As if the press did not have enough to worry about.... - Jim Landau From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Thu Apr 3 19:41:20 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:41:20 -0500 Subject: BE/AE Agreement In-Reply-To: <554145.1049366463@[10.218.201.115]> Message-ID: Perhaps the instances where formerly the collective nouns representing companies, governments, &c., were thought of as aggregates of individuals, they are now seen more as monoliths, represented often by logos or icons and so take singular verb forms. On the other hand, sports teams retain a strong sense of comprising individual athletes, often stars, so the plural verbs still seem appropriate. A. Murie (caution: do not attempt to parse that 1st sentence.) ~~~~~~~~~ Peter's original message: >Not long ago there was a brief discussion on this list of the difference between British and American English in the treatment of formally singular nouns that represent collective entities. In the course of this, I made the following observation: "On a trip through Heathrow Airport many years ago I was struck by an ad for a construction firm. The firm's name was Billy something--Barnham? Something like that. The ad said: "Billy Barnham built this terminal. Billy Barnham build everywhere." I've never run across a variety of AE where this would be acceptable." Jesse Scheidlower (who had started the thread), subsequently noted: "It's a general feature of British English that various kinds of group nouns tend to take plural concord, e.g. "British Telecom are profitable this quarter", "Manchester United have won the FA cup" [the frequency of this sort of construction in World Cup coverage, mentioned by another posted, is surely due to the reporters' being British in the examples in question], "The government are divided about how to...", etc." I don't think anyone challenged the last sentence in my post, but I recently ran across a quote that does. An article about the Pennsylvania Railroad's crack streamliner The Broadway Limited in the magazine Classic Trains quotes a 1953 written statement to employees by PRR Executive Vice President James Symes: "I happen to know from authentic sources that the New York Central are going 'all out' in attempting to re-establish the Twentieth Century Limited to its former position in the New York to Chicago Service" (Joe Welsh, The Broadway's best years," Classic Trains, Winter 2002, pp. 33-34). In a quick search for a couple of examples of equivalent British usage, I looked at the BBC's web site and discovered to my astonishment that the usage I noticed at Heathrow Airport 20 or more years ago (which, it now appears, was also the usage of at least some Americans as late as 1953) has been abandoned, at least by the BBC. On the web site today, the singular noun-plural verb usage pops up immediately in several headlines involving national sports teams: Pakistan total 278-7 in their Sharjah Cup match against Zimbabwe Fiji play down virus fear But businesses (and political groupings) now appear to have "gone singular," viz.: Al-Jazeera halts Iraq broadcasts British Airways cuts more flights EU acts on French deficit Previously, according to parallel examples I've seen through the years, these would have been "Al-Jazeera halt," "British Airways cut" and "EU act." Can any of our British list members confirm this development across the Atlantic? Does anybody know of an article treating this subject?< A&M Murie N. Bangor NY sagehen at westelcom.com From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 3 19:55:44 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:55:44 -0500 Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" In-Reply-To: <1ef.5dc12f4.2bbde0fa@aol.com> Message-ID: At 2:09 PM -0500 4/3/03, James A. Landau wrote: >In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, >jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST writes: > >> MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? >> Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, >> gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? >> JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. >> >> WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A >> SWEATER.] > >The only likely interpretation of "Does this come in a boot?" that would make >the audience laugh is the straightforwards one, "Can I find a pair of boots >in this color and/or pattern?" This interpretation also fits with the rest >of the quoted dialogue, which is about trying to find color matches to >Matthew's trousers. > >The humor seems to lie not in the dialogue itself Well, it's partly the interesting use of what Geoff Nunberg calls "deferred reference", the fact that you can hold up a sweater and say "this" and, in the context, refer to the sweater but (only) to one of its salient properties, here its color. Nunberg has examples like holding up a copy of the Times and saying "Murdoch is trying to buy this" or pointing to the headquarters of IBM and saying "That just fell 2 5/8", meaning IBM's stock. I'm not sure the humor comes from the color of the sweater but from the attenuated nature of this particular instance of deferred reference. >but rather in what the >sweater looks like---to get a big laugh the sweater will have to have colors >or a pattern that is quite implausible to find in pair of boots. > >A speaker of British English might interpret "in a boot" to mean "in the boot >of a car" but I can't see how that would be funny. > > - Jim Landau > >PS. Am I imagining things, or did you find a television program about a >homosexual menage a trois? Not exactly. "Will & Grace", which is the original name of the show in question ("Love plus one" must be its trans-Atlantic sobriquet) does not posit any romantic or sexual involvement between Will and Jack, both of whom are gay--they're just friends. I assume from the above context that Jack may have been coming on to Matthew, who is not a regular character on the show. I assume this partly because Jack comes on to most males of the right age and physical appearance. Larry From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 3 22:07:31 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:07:31 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966); "New York" & "New England" in maps In-Reply-To: <3E8C0C8C.31197.8C23F@localhost> Message-ID: A few tangential remarks and questions. Pardon my ignorance of Spanish. Why is a [city] block called "manzana" in Spanish? Is it really named after a fruit, or is it coincidental? ["Manzana" = "apple" is apparently from earlier "mazana" < Latin "[mala] Matiana" or so, named after a proper noun.] Why would "manzana principal" be rendered "big apple" rather than "main apple" or whatever? Modern Spanish expresses "The Big Apple" as "La Gran Manzana" AFAIK. If English "big apple" = "downtown" existed and was adopted into Spanish in 1910 or whenever, I would expect to see alternative forms like this, and/or "main/first/prime apple" in English. In Spanish there is the metaphor "manzana de la discordia" which I guess is something like "bone of contention" (maybe we have "apple of discord" in English too?) ... apparently referring to the mythical apple [Paris' prize] which started the Trojan War. In English there is "apple of my eye" for example, and I suppose the idea of an apple as a prize is natural in both languages. -- Doug Wilson From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 22:10:11 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:10:11 EST Subject: BE/AE Agreement Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 2:39:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM writes: > Perhaps the instances where formerly the collective nouns representing > companies, governments, &c., were thought of as aggregates of individuals, > they are now seen more as monoliths, represented often by logos or icons > and so take singular verb forms. On the other hand, sports teams retain a > strong sense of comprising individual athletes, often stars, so the plural > verbs still seem appropriate. > A. Murie > (caution: do not attempt to parse that 1st sentence.) insert "but" before "they are now seen" and insert a comma after "icons" - Jim Landau (who, after reviewing the spec document for a new software package, will cheerfully trade grammar for clarity) From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 3 22:13:46 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:13:46 EST Subject: Manzana (January 1966) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 5:07:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, douglas at NB.NET writes: > Modern Spanish expresses "The Big Apple" as "La Gran > Manzana" AFAIK. "Big apple" would be "manzana grande". "gran manzana" is something close to "great apple". Don't feel bad. The "Grand Canyon" in Arizona is not so named for being grand; it is a mis-translation of Spanish "Gran Can~on". - Jim Landau From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 3 23:18:13 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:18:13 -0500 Subject: Food Stylist (1936, 1938); OT: Food in Film In-Reply-To: <19B19CD2.0E5A4E8B.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: At 10:19 PM 4/2/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--------------------------------------------------------------- >OT: FOOD IN FILM > >"Yes! Yes! Oh, yes! Yes! Oh God! Yes! Yes! Yes! YES! >YES! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!" >--Meg Ryan in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989) Hmmm--Molly Bloom said it better in _Ulysses_. But seriously, don't forget "Like Water for Chocolate" and the Danish movie "Babette's Feast"--yummy! > I really should take my first dates to Katz's Deli, but they never do > look like Meg Ryan. > The NYPL's performing arts library's clipping files aren't great for > food. A clipping from September 1981 of the Denver Center Cinema's Great > International Food Film Festival contained these films: WHO IS KILLING > THE GREAT CHEFS OF EUROPE?, SOYLENT GREEN, GARLIC IS AS GOOD AS TEN > MOTHERS, THE ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES (filmed version of Andrew > Smith's books), THE LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, MILDRED PIERCE, FATSO, TOM > JONES, WILLY WONKA AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY, THE DISCREET CHARM OF THE > BOURGEOISIE, WHISKEY GALORE, WHAT'S UP TIGER LILY?, and THE GOOD EARTH. > An article on food documentaries was in the NEW YORK TIMES, 18 March > 1992, pg. C8. This amusing quotation is from M. F. K.: A DOCUMENTARY ON > THE LIFE OF MARY FRANCES KENNEDY FISHER: "Even in the worst book," she > says, waving a microphone, "there is one jewel, the jewel in a toad's > head. I just don't have the time anymore to look for it. All these idea > books. The story of bread or the story of potatoes. Some editor will > say, 'Well, write about peanuts.' And some poor soul does." > These titles are from OCLC WorldCat: > > >MD TOWSON UNIV TSC (Only library--ed.) >Title: Dining in the dark : >a cultural analysis of food in American film / >Author(s): Newberg, Michael Robert. >Year: 1997 >Description: vi, 136 leaves : ill. ; 28 cm. >Language: English > SUBJECT(S) >Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. >Food habits. >Mass media and culture. >Note(s): Vita./ Includes bibliographical references (leaves 132-136)./ >Dissertation: Thesis (M.A.) - Towson State University, 1997. >Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F6 >Responsibility: by Michael Robert Newberg. >Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) >Document Type: Book >Entry: 19970714 >Update: 19970714 >Accession No: OCLC: 37290651 >Database: WorldCat > > >DC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS DLC (Only library so far--ed.) >Title: Food in film : >a culinary performance of communication / >Author(s): Ferry, Jane, 1941- >Publication: New York : Routledge, >Projected Date: 0307 >Year: 2003 >Description: p. cm. >Language: English >Series: American popular history & culture; Variation: American popular >history and culture (Routledge (Firm)) >Standard No: ISBN: 0415945836 (alk. paper); LCCN: 2003-46530 > SUBJECT(S) >Descriptor: Food in motion pictures. >Note(s): Includes bibliographical references and index. >Class Descriptors: LC: PN1995.9.F65; Dewey: 791.43/655 >Responsibility: Jane F. Ferry. >Document Type: Book >Entry: 20030317 >Update: 20030327 >Accession No: OCLC: 51931190 >Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 00:48:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:48:07 -0500 Subject: Seitan (1960s); Encyclopedia of Food & Culture (2003) Message-ID: SEITAN COOKING WITH SEITAN: THE COPLETE VEGETARIAN "WHEAT-MEAT" COOKBOOK by Barbara Jacobs and Leonard Jacobs Garden City Park, NY: Avery Publishing group 1994 A better title than BOOZE WITH BEELZEBUB, I suppose. Pg. 5 (A NEWLY DISCOVERED ANCIENT FOOD): Seitan--gluten that has been extracted fro wheat flour and then cooked--coes to the United States from Japan, where it was prepared (Pg. 6--ed.) originally by vegetarian Buddhist monks. It is also known simply as gluten or "wheat meat"; however, we prefer to use the Japanese nae even though technically the word seitan refers to gluten that has been cooked in soy sauce. According to Yuko Okada, president of uso Copany, Ltd., one of the oldest and largest exporters of Japanese natural foods, the word "seitan" was coined in the mid-1960s by acrobiotics teacher George Ohsawa. The word "sei" means _is_ and "tan," which is the first character in the word tanpaku, eans _protein_. So seitan, loosely translated, eans soething like _the right protein substitute_. I didn't have time today, but maybe in a few days I'll look here for seitan: Call # *OSM (Sakurazawa, Y. You are all Sanpaku) Author Ohsawa, Georges, 1893-1966. Title You are all sanpaku, by Sakurazawa Nyoiti. English version by William Dufty. Imprint New Hyde Park, N. Y., University Books [c1965] LOCATION CALL # STATUS Humanities-Asian&ME Div *OSM (Sakurazawa, Y. You are all Sanpaku) Location Humanities-Asian&ME Div Descript 224 p. illus. Note Bibliography, p. 218. Subject Diet. Eye. --------------------------------------------------------------- MANZANA (continued) It's very hard to prove that citations that aren't there were never there. I can never prove even that "hoosier" doesn't come from "whose ear?". Sure, we have a lack of any single historical citation anywhere. But can I prove what those people 170 years ago were thinking? Maybe they just didn't write it down? And so it always goes. The NEW YORK MORNING TELEGRAPH'S Tijuana writer used slang, used "Big Apple," and did not use "manzana." He used some Spanish, amigo. Fitz Gerald called New York "the big apple of racing." The "square block of racing" just doesn't make sense. Hy Schneider also used "Big Apple" in the 1920s on the MORNING TELEGRAPH. Schneider came from El Paso, and I'm sure he knew some Spanish, too. He never used "manzana," either. Once again, the dismal Google numbers: "Big Apple" and "manzana"--213 "Big Apple" and "Ciardi"--48 "Big Apple" and "Popik"--39 It's now six years since I dedicated "Big Apple Corner" after it was signed into law by the mayor. I'm trailing a person who did no original research whatsoever. --------------------------------------------------------------- SCRIBNER LIBRARY OF DAILY LIFE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FOOD & CULTURE Solomon H. Katz. editor in chief William Woys Weaver, associate editor 3 volumes 2003 This book is on the NYPL reserve shelf. I checked it for "seitan," but it didn't help much. It has distinguished writers such as "WWW" and Andrew Smith (who will kill me shortly). It's like any encyclopedia. Some things are nicely written and some things are awful. It's somewhat useful and I learned a few things. The question I have is the purpose of the project. It's too mammoth for any individual to buy and put on a shelf. There are no recipes. The average person is going to use the web, where the information (although not always accurate) is free. So it's aimed for scholars, but scholars already know some of the stuff and aren't going to use it. For example, I'm not going to read what Andrew Smith says here about tomatoes. I have his books on my shelf. That's what Andrew Smith has to say on tomatoes. It's hard to see the use for this, or how it's going to make money. It's "OK." Now for the screaming error: Pg. 217: "HOT DOGS AND NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES." You know what's cited here? J. J. Schnebel's "Who Cooked This Up?" (http://members.cox.net/starview) As Andrew Sullivan would say, here's the money quote: "Schnebel credits the sports cartoonist Thomas Dorgan of the _New York Journal_ for inventing the name 'hot dog.'" HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? Alan Davidson gets it wrong for Oxford (he didn't check with OED). Now this! Why would you quote Schnebel's web site for anything? My stuff (Barry "Popick") is on the web site of the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council. It's on World Wide Words. It's on Snopes.com. It was in SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE. It was in a hot dog book by David Graulich. Our DIALECT NOTES of 1900 would show this is wrong. It's cited in the OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. MERRIAM-WEBSTER gives my 1895 date. You're going to rely on "Who Cooked This Up?" . "Pizza" was introduced to America at Lombardi's at 53 1/3 Spring Street? That's wrong, but the address always changes, too. Now it's 53 1/3? Wasn't it 52 1/2? . "In spite of its (Cuban sandwich--ed.) association with Havana, this sandwich was created in New York and New Jersey." WWW, who wrote this, obviously never saw my work. Not true at all, and based on no citations. . "Philadelphia hoagie (derived from 'hokey-pokey man')..." WWW is an expert on PA foods. How could he say this? Yes, there is one cite that says this and I posted it here, but it's wrong! . 1926 Cobb salad--Andrew Smith probably meant 1936. I'll check it on the LOS ANGELES TIMES as soon as it's available. I haven't read the whole three volumes. Again, it's OK. The "hot dog" thing left me screaming, but overall, it's OK. It's still not that much-needed historical dictionary of food and drink. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 01:34:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:34:38 -0500 Subject: Vegetable Spaghetti (1976); Spaghetti Squash (1976) Message-ID: OED has 1973 for "vegetable spaghetti." OED does not have "spaghetti squash." 1 April 1962, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 26: The flesh of the vegetable spaghetti is a spiral of spaghetti-like pulp that may be served with catsup or old as a salad. 17 October 1976, NEW YORK TIES, pg. 395: Spaghetti squash is not a sacrifice, but an interesting novelty for as long as the vegetable is in season. Here's a book title fro OCLC WorldCat: The vegetable spaghetti cookbook : how to grow & how to cook spaghetti squash / Author: Fell, Derek.; Shaudys, Phyllis. Publication: Washington Crossing, PA : Pine Row Publications, 1982 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 01:55:16 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:55:16 -0500 Subject: Turban Squash (1872) Message-ID: Might as well continue with "squash." OED has 1902 for "turban squash." Search the Full-Text of Harper's Weekly, 1857-1912 72-02-03 Page 110 GREGORY'S SEED CATALOGUE Having been the first to introduce to the public the Hubbard Squash, American Turban Squash, Marble- head Mammoth Cabbage, Mexican Sweet Corn, Phin- ney's Water-Melon, Brown's New Dwarf Marrowfat Pea, Boston Curled Lettuce, and other New and Valuable Vegetables, with the return of another season I am again prepared to supply the public with Vegetable and Flower Seeds of the purest quality. My Annual Catalogue is now ready, and will be sent free to all. It has not only all novelties, but the standard vegetables of the farm and garden (over one hundred which are of my own grow- ing), and a carefully selected list of Flower Seeds. On the cover of my Catalogue will be found copies of let- ters received from farmers and gardeners residing in over thirty different states and territories who have used my seed from one to ten years. I warrant -- 1st, That all money sent shall reach me; 2d, That all seed ordered shall reach the purchaser; 3d, That my seed shall be fresh, and true to name. Catalogues free to all. JAMES J. H. GREGORY , Marblehead, Mass. From self at TOWSE.COM Fri Apr 4 02:10:07 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:10:07 -0800 Subject: Sheet Cake (1944) Message-ID: Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > --------------------------------------------------------------- > SHEET CAKE > > Sheet cake? > People eat sheet cake? What's it made out of? Is it any better than a cow pie > or a meadow muffin? > For various reasons, you don't see the name around much anymore. However, it's > in this food dictionary I'm reading. The NEW YORK TIMES has 54 hits. > > 20 February 1944, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM27 ad for Presto Self Rising Cake Flour: > ...sheet cake pan... > > 20 February 1945, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 16: > ...seven pans of sheet cake for the hungry crew of an LST. "Sheet cake" is still very much found in a bakery setting: maybe the home baker wants to be more creative these days and baking a flat cake is just ... flat. The bundt pan probably had a lot to do with it. Remember when bundt cakes were exotic fare? Bakeries usually sell sheets, 1/2-sheets, 1/4-sheets too. Depending on the bakery, the dimensions of the full-sheet (and, hence, the 1/2, 1/4, &c.) differ. One bakery's 1/2 sheet might be another's 1/3 sheet. Should you ever do some comparative pricing, ask for w/l/h dimensions and calculate $/volume. claims to have created the first ice cream cake roll in 1932, using sheet cake and ice cream. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 02:40:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:40:28 -0500 Subject: Steak Knife (1870, 1892) Message-ID: OED has 1895 for "steak knife," from that immortal MONTGOMERY WARD CATALOGUE. There seems to be a large gap. There is 1870, then several in the 1890s. The BROOKLYN EAGLE has 1894...More "steak" and possibly "butter knife" in a few minutes. 24 September 1892, LIVING AGE (Making of America-Cornell), pg. 791: ...maddened by some remark, he grabbed a long steak knife and made a spring at her;... (Making of America-Cornell) Title: The New York state business directory and gazetteer. Publisher: Publication Date: 1870 City: Syracuse etc. Pages: 1410 page images Subjects: New York (State) -- Directories. Pg. 91 ad: CHAS. D. PUTNAM'S CUTLERY WORKS POTSDAM, N. Y. CUTLERY CARVING KNIVES, STEAK KNIVES, VEGETABLE KNIVES, PARING KNIVES, SHOE KNIVES, FISH KNIVES, SIDING KNIVES, SEGAR KNIVES, PUTTY KNIVES. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 03:03:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:03:00 -0500 Subject: Butter Knife (1839, 1842) Message-ID: OED has 1850 for "butter knife," coined by Charles Dickens in DAVID COPPERFIELD. 13 April 1842, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: SALES ROOM, 14 FULTON STREET. (...) ...ivory handle knives and forks, silver-table, teaspoons, and butter knife. August, 1839 THE LADY'S BOOK Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Volume XIX Page 62 (...) At length the tea-bell rung, and they went down to a long, narrow room, furnished with a double range of cross-legged red-painted tables, covered with dirty cotton cloths; all the other appliances, cups, plates, knives, forks, and spoons, being of the most coarse and common description. The servants (in number not sufficient for one-fourth of the numerous guests) made a disgustingly dirty appearance, and looked like the sort that were to be had cheap. The tea was so devoid of taste and colour that it was impossible to distinguish the green from the black; the bread (being made in the house) was so sour and heavy as to be scarcely eatable; the butter soft, oily, and ill-flavoured; and there were no << butter knives>> . The relishes as they were called, (though few could relish them) comprised some little dishes of warm, tough cucumbers, made amazingly salt; tumblers of hot, purple, overgrown radishes; and small plates of fat gristly chips of black-looking dried beef. Here and there, at great distances apart, sat a saucer containing three or four of those dry, tasteless, choking, and always unpopular compositions, dignified by the name of Federal cakes. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 03:13:54 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:13:54 -0500 Subject: Steak au poivre (1950) Message-ID: OED has Beard and Watt PARIS CUISINE (1953). 9 February 1950 NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 32: French cooking is not necessarily "a sauce on a sauce on a sauce," James Beard insisted the other night. Civet of hare, grilled pig's foot and steak au poivre--"that steak with the coarse salt and freshly ground pepper practically beaten into it"--are Parisian restaurant specialties that exemplify simplicity to this epicure. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 03:57:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:57:49 -0500 Subject: Sun-Dried Tomatoes (1985); Swedish Limpa (1941,1942) Message-ID: "Limpa" is not in the OED. I have to do something for the Swedes on the list. I've been seeing "sun-dried tomatoes" at salad bars and olive bars throughout the city. I'll find earlier dates for both. --------------------------------------------------------------- SUN-DRIED TOMATOES 7 July 1985, NEW YORK TIES, pg. WC17: Recomended dishes: Scottish soked salmon, imported buffalo mozzarella with sun dried tomatoes and fresh basil,... Some WorldCat titles: Cooking with sun-dried tomatoes / Author: Dribin, Lois, 1947-; Marina, Denise, Publication: Tucson, Ariz. : Fisher Books, 1990 Document: English : Book Sun-dried tomatoes! / Author: Chesman, Andrea. Publication: Freedom, Calif. : Crossing Press, 1990 Document: English : Book Sun-dried tomatoes / Author: Brennan, Ethel.; Brennan, Georgeanne, Publication: San Francisco : Chronicle Books, 1995 Document: English : Book Sun-dried tomatoes / Author: Broderick, Orla.; Smith, Sharon. Publication: Menlo Park, Calif. : Sunset Publishing Corp., 1994 Document: English : Book --------------------------------------------------------------- SWEDISH LIMPA 23 July 1941, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 13: Or you might try making a sandwich that is much favored in Sweden--lavish portions of medurst between two well-buttered man-sized pieces of limpa--wholewheat bread with caraway. 23 December 1942, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 16: In the Swedish-American shops of the city the customary holiday specialties of the old country run the gamut from salt herring to saffron cofee cake, from vort limpa (an anise-flavored rye bread) to lutfisk (dried cod or haddock or such). From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 04:44:26 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:44:26 -0500 Subject: Oolong tea (1845) Message-ID: Merriam-Webster has 1850 and OED has 1852 for "oolong." 18 October 1845, NATIONAL POLICE GAZETTE (American Periodical Series) pg. 71 ad: DELICIOUS OOLONG--A most delightful black tea called by the Celestials "Oolong," is sold by the Pekin Tea Copany, 75 Fulton street, at 50 cents per pound, superior to any black tea we have ever bought for double that price. 22 october 1845, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Some of the captions alluded to are "Delicious Oolong,"... (The article refers to ads like the above--ed.) From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 4 04:50:30 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:50:30 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966) In-Reply-To: <1e0.5fb2dd7.2bbe0c1a@aol.com> Message-ID: Naive search results, without explicit exegesis: Google hits: "la manzana grande" ... 52 "la gran manzana" ... 791 "nueva york la manzana grande" ... 0 "nueva york la gran manzana" ... 56 Search for ("la gran manzana" AND "la manzana grande") turns up just one item: <> -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 05:01:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:01:11 -0500 Subject: Waffle Iron (1788) Message-ID: OED has 1794 for "waffle iron." I had to go through several different spellings before I found this. ITEM #74778 April 16, 1788 The Pennsylvania Gazette FOR SALE BY LEONARD JACOBY, At his Store, in Second street, the fifth door above Race street, and next door to the sign of the Black Bear, in Philadelphia, A large assortment of the best kind of Dutch Scythes & German Straw-knives, With suitable WHETSTONES. Also a few << WAFFEL-IRONS>> . Likewise a general assortment of superfine, fine, middling and coarse BOULTING CLOTHS, Suitable for any kind of milling business. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 05:40:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:40:22 -0500 Subject: Water Spinach (1968, 1969, 1984) Message-ID: http://www.bbg.org/gar2/topics/kitchen/2001fa_spinach.html "Water spinach" is not in the OED. The above is from the Brooklyn Botanical Garden. It wasn't reported in New York until the last few years, but the LOS ANGELES TIMES might have it much earlier. (JSTOR database) Developmental Morphology of the Megasporangium and Embryogeny in Ipomoea reptans Poir. and Related Species Samuel C. K. Chan; Charles J. Hillson Botanical Gazette, Vol. 129, No. 2. (Jun., 1968), pp. 150-156. Pg. 150: The named species, commonly called water spinach, is a very important summer vegetable in China. 20 December 1969, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 3: The cooperative (near Hanoi--ed.) also raises pigs and chickens, and produces sugar cane, bananas and a kind of water spinach. 1 February 1984, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. C9: Perhaps you are familiar enough with ginger, jicama, coriander and even Chinese white cabbage (bok choy), but would you know bamboo mustard cabbage, angled luffa or water spinach if you saw it or if a recipe required it? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 06:17:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:17:53 -0500 Subject: Cookie Cutter (1874, 1895) Message-ID: "Cookie cutter" is not in the OED. It's become part of slang. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) Home and Society: pp. 750-752 p. 751 1 match of 'cookie cutter*' in: Title: Scribners monthly, an illustrated magazine for the people. / Volume 8, Issue 6 Publisher: Scribner and son. Publication Date: October 1874 City: New York Pages: 770 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABP7664- Pg. 751: It is not so easy to suggest presents for tin as for wooden weddings; still, besides the practical pans, pails, cake-boxes, spice-boxes, kitchen-spoons, wire-covers, cookie cutters and candlesticks, there are many things sufficiently allied to tin to render them legitimate for such occasions. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) November 1895, LADIES' HOME JOURNAL, pg. 23: ...cut out with a cooky cutter and spread melted butter over the tops;... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 06:33:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:33:44 -0500 Subject: Cheese Wire (1970, 1972) Message-ID: "Cheese wire" is not in the OED. It's something used to cut the cheese--not to "wire" the "big cheese." 25 October 1970, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. XX5: The multi-colored, precipitous cliffs, exposed as if pared by a cheese wire, were coposed of a mixture of cinders, lava and pumice. 5 November 1972, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 38 ad: Cut cheese to the thickness you desire the way professionals do. Our cheese wire/slicer makes the job easy. (...) HOFFRITZ From eashton at MAC.COM Fri Apr 4 06:28:36 2003 From: eashton at MAC.COM (Elaine Ashton) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:28:36 +0300 Subject: rooty tooty Message-ID: My husband, a non-native English speaker, noticed 'rooty-tooty' in an article about Connie Chung in the Washington Post a week or so ago [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29406-2003Mar25.html ] and asked what it meant in the following sentence: "Both Isaacson and Kellner recently announced their resignations, and the guys brought in to replace them are decidedly CNN old guard; they like their TV news with a little less of the rooty-tooty." I've seen it used in the Denny's ads for the "rooty tooty fresh and fruity" menu but I can't really say I know what it means. In context I can guess the meaning is close to "sassy" or maybe "frivolous", but it's hard to pin down. It comes in several forms and, I'm guessing, is derivative of "rootin' tootin'". Anyone have a more definitive guess? :) e. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 06:55:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:55:19 -0500 Subject: Yuba (1983) Message-ID: "Yuba" is not in the OED or Merriam-Webster. I saw it in books today while looking for "seitan." It's also listed in the FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION. I added the word "soy" to "yuba" to cut out the "Yuba City" citations. Surprisingly, the NEW YORK TIMES wasn't helpful. These are from the FACTIVA database. Last one before parking tickets. MEATLESS MEALS Dried bean curd good in stew DAVID COHLMEYER 927 words 16 November 1983 The Globe and Mail SB10 We have heard a lot about the wonders of tofu. But there is another soy product from the Orient which deserves more attention than it has received - dried bean curd. Bean curd is somewhat of a misnomer. It is not really a curd, but the skin which forms on top of heated soy milk - not unlike the skin which forms on heated cow's milk. In Japan and China its deliciously sweet and nutty flavor and gossamer texture can be enjoyed fresh. In North America, we only have the dried version. Its delicate flavor is gone, but its fascinating texture remains. Dried bean curd is available in two forms - flat beige "sheets" and bunched-up "rope". It is available in Chinese stores as "dried bean curd" or dao fu choap. In Japanese stores it is called yuba. This bean curd contains most of the soy bean's protein, B vitamins and iron. Like other soy foods, it is very low in fats, cholesterol. When dry it keeps indefinitely. But if it becomes too dry, the curd becomes brittle and shatters. So look for a package which is not filled with crumbled pieces. (...) Highly-pure soy protein yields strong films 422 words 1 May 1998 Emerging Food R&D Report Vol. 9, No. 2 ISSN: 1050-2688 The film-forming ability of soy proteins has traditionally been used in the Far East to make soy protein-lipid films called yuba films. The process used to make yuba films consists of boiling soy milk in shallow pans, collecting the films formed as a result of surface dehydration and hanging the films so that they dry in air. Other researchers have prepared soy films by spreading soy protein isolate solutions on Teflon-coated baking pans and then baking the pans at 100 C for an hour. But depositing and drying soy protein solutions is a more promising way to make commercial-scale films since this approach allows for greater consistency and control during film formation. Others have produced homogeneous free-standing edible films from commercial soy protein using glycerol as a plasticizer. Scientists at the University of Nebraska (Department of Food Science and Technology, 352 Food Industry Complex, Lincoln, NE 68583) compared the tensile strength, elongation at break, water vapor permeability, solubility in water and color properties of films formed from commercial soy protein isolate with those of films formed from laboratory-prepared crude 7S and 11S fractions, and soy protein isolate. The investigators found that soy protein isolate of increased purity-about 96% to 98%-can yield stronger films than commercially-available soy protein isolate. (...) From lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG Fri Apr 4 07:58:12 2003 From: lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG (Scott Sadowsky) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 02:58:12 -0500 Subject: Manzana (January 1966) In-Reply-To: <1e0.5fb2dd7.2bbe0c1a@aol.com> Message-ID: James A. Landau: >"Big apple" would be "manzana grande". "gran manzana" is something close to >"great apple". Don't feel bad. No, it is indeed "la gran manzana". The logic above sums up what's normally taught in textbooks, but it often doesn't hold in reality. Douglas G. Wilson: >Google hits: > >"la manzana grande" ... 52 >"la gran manzana" ... 791 > >"nueva york la manzana grande" ... 0 >"nueva york la gran manzana" ... 56 From the Dynamic Corpus of Chilean Spanish (Codicach) (currently at 625 million words): "la gran manzana": 1713 "la manzana grande": 0 "nueva york AND la gran manzana": 1473 nueva york AND la manzana grande": 0 Cheers, Scott From jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST Fri Apr 4 07:39:13 2003 From: jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST (Jan Ivarsson TransEdit) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:39:13 +0200 Subject: "Does this come in a boot?" Message-ID: I didn't find the program - the translator is working on it for a Swedish TV channel - but the text can be found at http://www.durfee.net/will/scripts/s0306.htm Thanks for the explanation. It has been forwarded. Jan Ivarsson ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. Landau" To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Does this come in a boot?" > In a message dated 4/3/2003 1:12:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jan.ivarsson at TRANSEDIT.ST writes: > > > MATTHEW: [TO JACK] Does this shirt come in anything besides cranberry? > > Because I just don't think it will go with my gooseberry pants. Uh, > > gandaberry, lingonberry, Halle Berry? > > JACK: [TO HIMSELF] Me! I'm the fruit that would go with those pants. > > > > WILL: Nice try. Tell me. Does this come in a boot? [WILL HOLDS UP A > > SWEATER.] > > The only likely interpretation of "Does this come in a boot?" that would make > the audience laugh is the straightforwards one, "Can I find a pair of boots > in this color and/or pattern?" This interpretation also fits with the rest > of the quoted dialogue, which is about trying to find color matches to > Matthew's trousers. > > The humor seems to lie not in the dialogue itself but rather in what the > sweater looks like---to get a big laugh the sweater will have to have colors > or a pattern that is quite implausible to find in pair of boots. > > A speaker of British English might interpret "in a boot" to mean "in the boot > of a car" but I can't see how that would be funny. > > - Jim Landau > > PS. Am I imagining things, or did you find a television program about a > homosexual menage a trois? > From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Apr 4 08:04:17 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 00:04:17 -0800 Subject: Food Stylist (1936, 1938); OT: Food in Film In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030403172939.00bcf2f8@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: >But seriously, don't forget "Like Water for Chocolate" and the Danish movie >"Babette's Feast"--yummy! Or "Tampopo" or "Eat, Drink, Man, Woman" or even "The Big Night." Rima From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Fri Apr 4 15:05:47 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:05:47 -0500 Subject: Japanese Sound Effects from Comic Books Message-ID: Snagged this one off of Metafilter today. It's the translation of the sound effects (the equivalents of BAM! and KPOW! and DOH!) in Japanese comics and graphic novels. I don't know how accurate it is, but it's certainly interesting. http://www.oop-ack.com/manga/soundfx.html -- Grant Barrett Editor, World New York http://www.worldnewyork.net/ gbarrett at worldnewyork.org From andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU Fri Apr 4 18:43:57 2003 From: andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU (Drew Danielson) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:43:57 -0500 Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) Message-ID: FWIW, seitan is mostly made of rendered wheat gluten (the gluten is the important part as far as defining seitan - it's the protein from wheat flour without much of the carbs or cellulose). I first tried it in about 1989. Not a bad flavor (should be seasoned or served with other foods, though), nice 'meaty' texture if it's blanched. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 12:37:08 +0100 > From: Imran Ghory > Subject: Re: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) > > On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header > ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: Bapopik at AOL.COM > > Subject: Seitan, a wheat-based meat substitute (1990) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Vegetarians eat satan? > > Not in OED or Merriam-Webster. Over 17,000 Google hits. > > > > > > 30 November 1986, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 697: > > (Couldn't get full text for this, just an article summary without the > word--ed.) > > > A 1984 usenet message spelling it "setan", > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=202%40bpa.UUCP&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain > > Imran > -- > http://bits.bris.ac.uk/imran > > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 4 19:48:03 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:48:03 EST Subject: Seitan (1960s); Encyclopedia of Food & Culture (2003) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2003 7:49:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > the word "seitan" was coined in the mid-1960s by acrobiotics teacher George > Ohsawa the word should have benn "macrobiotics". However, your version presents the vision of Mr. Ohsawa eating vegetarian food on top of tall buildings, after which he leaps them in single bounds... From millerk at NYTIMES.COM Fri Apr 4 21:43:51 2003 From: millerk at NYTIMES.COM (Kathleen E. Miller) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:43:51 -0500 Subject: Soda Straw Message-ID: Funny thing about doing research on words coming out of the pentagon while a war's going on - their too busy to talk to you. I've already searched the archives - therefore I have Mr. Popik's 1922 hit for it. And I am not interested in the actual soda straw. What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning "narrow" as in the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" (earliest I've found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." Any ideas where I might find that? It came out of the mouth of Gen. Myers - but like I said, the pentagon ain't answering their phones. Thanks again Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The New York Times From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 4 23:47:41 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:47:41 -0800 Subject: Soda Straw In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030404163735.00b14510@smtp-store.nytimes.com> Message-ID: There is a Usenet post from 1997 that uses "soda straw view:" "Instructor slapped mask back on at 100% O-two. Vision spread out instantly from the down-the-soda-straw view I had acquired." QDurham (qdurham at aol.com), Subject: Re: questions regarding oxygen, altitude and cabin pressure, Newsgroup: rec.aviation.homebuilt, Date: 6 Aug 1997 There is also the following from 1992, about night vision equipment on fighter planes: "There is a problem with depth perception, and the view through the HUD FLIR is best described as 'like looking through a soda straw', but in my experience, they are appreciated by the aircrews." Mark Shanks (shanks at saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com), Subject: Re: Falcon OFT night missions and tidbits, Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games, Date: 18 Sep 1992 You also see the term crop up in astronomy circles, enabling the blind, etc. But it clearly has been used in Air Force circles for at least a decade, so it's no surprise that Myers, an Air Force general, picked it up. > -----Original Message----- > From: American Dialect Society > [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf > Of Kathleen E. Miller > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:44 PM > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Soda Straw > > > Funny thing about doing research on words coming out of the > pentagon while > a war's going on - their too busy to talk to you. I've > already searched the > archives - therefore I have Mr. Popik's 1922 hit for it. And I am not > interested in the actual soda straw. > > What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning > "narrow" as in > the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" (earliest I've > found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." > > Any ideas where I might find that? It came out of the mouth > of Gen. Myers - > but like I said, the pentagon ain't answering their phones. > > > Thanks again > > > Kathleen E. Miller > Research Assistant to William Safire > The New York Times > From RonButters at AOL.COM Sat Apr 5 00:57:35 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:57:35 EST Subject: rooty tooty Message-ID: "rooty-toot-toot" is (for me) a kind of iconic phrase for the sound of a horn being blown. I would interpret this to mean 'with a little less ornament' or 'just the straight, unadorned news'. In a message dated 4/4/03 1:39:44 AM, eashton at MAC.COM writes: << My husband, a non-native English speaker, noticed 'rooty-tooty' in an article about Connie Chung in the Washington Post a week or so ago [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29406-2003Mar25.html ] and asked what it meant in the following sentence: "Both Isaacson and Kellner recently announced their resignations, and the guys brought in to replace them are decidedly CNN old guard; they like their TV news with a little less of the rooty-tooty." I've seen it used in the Denny's ads for the "rooty tooty fresh and fruity" menu but I can't really say I know what it means. In context I can guess the meaning is close to "sassy" or maybe "frivolous", but it's hard to pin down. It comes in several forms and, I'm guessing, is derivative of "rootin' tootin'". Anyone have a more definitive guess? :) e. >> From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Sat Apr 5 02:05:06 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:05:06 -0500 Subject: Soda Straw In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030404163735.00b14510@smtp-store.nytimes.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: > What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning "narrow" as in > the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" (earliest I've > found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." Nexis has the following from Defense Daily, Nov. 3, 1997: Using its high resolution video camera, the Lockheed Martin [LMT] P-3 was to provide a "soda straw view" of moving targets and identify those targets as friend or foe, said Lt. Cmdr. David Acton, the intelligence officer for Amphibious Squadron 11. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Sat Apr 5 14:07:15 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:07:15 -0500 Subject: Frank Abate in N.Y. Times In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030404163735.00b14510@smtp-store.nytimes.com> Message-ID: Congratulations to Frank Abate, who is quoted about the semantic distinction between "capitulation" and "surrender" in tomorrow's "On Language" column by William Safire in the New York Times. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tb0exc1 at CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU Sat Apr 5 15:48:59 2003 From: tb0exc1 at CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU (callary ed) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:48:59 -0600 Subject: kickapoo = red bud? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Several early Illinois county histories claim that Kickapoo was a native name for the red bud. In the words of one, published about 1898, Kickapoo Creek was so called "by the Indians ... 'the Kickapoo,' which is their name for the Red Bud or Judas tree, which grew in great abundance along its banks." This sense of Kickapoo, usually glossed as 'wanderers,' is not in Mathews or DARE. Is this a local usage and can it be confirmed by a more reliable source than a local history? *********************************************************************** Edward Callary Phone: 815-753-6627 English Department email: ecallary at niu.edu Northern Illinois University FAX: 815-753-0606 DeKalb, Il 60115-2863 *********************************************************************** From gcohen at UMR.EDU Sat Apr 5 16:50:23 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:50:23 -0600 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? Message-ID: This is a bit off-topic, but maybe someone can help. I've been asked whether the ancient Romans trilled the sound /r/. Would anyone have any idea about this? Gerald Cohen From einstein at FROGNET.NET Sat Apr 5 18:36:36 2003 From: einstein at FROGNET.NET (David Bergdahl) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:36:36 -0500 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? Message-ID: I remember Swadesh (summer '66) saying that the uvular-R was a fashion that spread through Europe S > N but I never found any subsequent refernce to it. From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Sat Apr 5 20:20:20 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:20:20 -0500 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? In-Reply-To: <000101c2fba2$5c601670$24b89b3f@chaos> Message-ID: David Bergdahl wrote: >I remember Swadesh (summer '66) saying that the uvular-R was a fashion that >spread through Europe S > N but I never found any subsequent refernce to it. This is pretty well known. There are maps of the spread in various recent sociolinguistics texts, by Trudgill and/or Chambers. -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From sussex at UQ.EDU.AU Sat Apr 5 21:58:26 2003 From: sussex at UQ.EDU.AU (Prof. R. Sussex) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 07:58:26 +1000 Subject: cookie cutter In-Reply-To: <200304050500.h35509dx015567@mailhub2.uq.edu.au> Message-ID: There is also a "cookie cutter shark", distinguished by an amiable habit of biting cookie-shaped chunks out of its victims. Roly Sussex -- Roly Sussex Professor of Applied Language Studies Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies The University of Queensland Brisbane Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 Email: sussex at uq.edu.au Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html School's website: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ Applied linguistics website: http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ Language Talkback ABC radio: Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ ********************************************************** From sussex at UQ.EDU.AU Sat Apr 5 22:10:49 2003 From: sussex at UQ.EDU.AU (Prof. R. Sussex) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:10:49 +1000 Subject: implosives and spectrograms In-Reply-To: <200304040500.h3450kIL016027@mailhub1.uq.edu.au> Message-ID: Vietnamese has implosive /b/ /d/ in initial position. Since there are so many VN students in our universities, it should be possible to record some and put the result into a software package like Sound Studio. Roly Sussex -- Roly Sussex Professor of Applied Language Studies Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies The University of Queensland Brisbane Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 Email: sussex at uq.edu.au Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html School's website: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ Applied linguistics website: http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ Language Talkback ABC radio: Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ ********************************************************** From translation at BILLIONBRIDGES.COM Sat Apr 5 23:42:38 2003 From: translation at BILLIONBRIDGES.COM (Billionbridges.com) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:42:38 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: In a rather hysterical article written in Chinese I came across recently a Taiwanese person rants that the epithets in English denoting nationality which use the "ese" suffix are insulting and racist (where those which do not, such as "American" or "German" etc., are not). The author claims that "ese" was traditionally used by the English in adjectives describing unimportant, weak, strange or sickly things or people(s). He further relates personal anecdotes in which the term "Chinese" has been used by Americans in scorn. In his estimation "Chinese" is as insulting to, erm, Chinese as "nigger" is to African-Americans. Hypersensitive and misguided? Clearly. An ignorant crackpot? Well, the author has decided that in future when English-speakers ask where he's from he will answer the "Central Kingdom of Sinai." He is a Sinaian, he says. Nevertheless, leaving Egypt and the politics of the Taiwan Strait aside, I wonder where this author's conception that the "ese" suffix is insulting came from? Or is this completely baseless and/or irredeemably idiolectic? The link, for the Chinese-enabled: http://teacher.cyivs.cy.edu.tw/~hchung/despisechinese.htm Best, Don From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 00:09:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:09:24 -0500 Subject: Cappicola, Kielbasa and much more meat (1938) Message-ID: SAUSAGE AND READY-TO-SERVE MEATS prepared by Committee on Recording of the Institute Plan Commission, Institute of Meat Packers Chicago: Institute of Meat Packing, University of Chicago 1938 This is a great book on meat. Thankfully, I'm now sitting at a computer that types the letter "m." Maybe OED will add "cappicola" and quickly revise that 1953 Saul Bellow first citation for "kielbasa." Let me know if you want more detail. Pg. 16: _Fresh Sausage_ Pg. 17: _Fresh pork sausage_..._Fresh country style pork sausage_..._Bratwurst_..._Fresh sausage or sausage meat_..._Fresh thuringer style sausage_..._Bockwurst_. Pg. 18: Uncooked Smoked Sausage..._Smoked country style pork sausage_..._Smoked country style sausage_..._Mettwurst_..._Polish sausage_ (or _kielbasa_) is amde from coarsely ground lean pork with added beef, and is highly seasoned with garlic. Pg. 19: (_Kielbasa_ in the original Polish sense is a term referring to all sausage. In America, however, kielbasa frequently is used to refer to this sausage.) Pg. 19: Cooked Smoked Sausage:...__Frankfurters_..._Wieners_ and _Vienna style sausages_..._Cocktail style frankfurters_..._Garlic, knoblauch or knackwurst sausage_..._Bologna_... Pg. 20: _Ham style bologna_..._Berliner style sausage_..._German type mortadella_... Cooked Sausages:..._Liver sausage_... Pg. 21: _Blood sausage or blutwurst_... Cooked Specialties:..._Luncheon specialty_..._Minced luncheon specialty_..._Head cheese_..._Souse_..._Meat loaves_.... Pg. 22: Dry Sausage:..._Summer sausage_..._Farmer cervelat_... Pg. 23: _Holsteiner cervelat_..._Thuringer cervelat_..._Goettinger cervelat_..._Goteborg cervelat_..._Landjaeger cervelat_..._Gothaer_..._Italian salamis_..._Allessandri_ and _Alpino_ are Italian-type salamis or American origin. _Arles_ is a salami of French origin and is similar to Italian salamis. _German and Hungarian salamis_..._Lyons sausage_... Pg. 24: _Cappicola_ is of Italian origin and is made of boneless pork shoulder butt, seasoned with ground red-hot or sweet peppers, salt and sugar, mildly cured and air dried. _Mortadella_..._Pepperoni_..._Frizzes_..._Chorizos_... Pg. 120: _Devonshire Style Sausage_... Pg. 143: _Berliner or New England Ham Style_... Pg. 147: _Lebanon Bologna_ Lebanon bologna is a product originally produced at Lebanon, Pennsylvania. There are a few packers or sausage makers who place this product upon the market. Pg. 148: _Paraffined Bologna_... Pg. 170: _Farmer Sausage and Holsteiner_... Pg. 171: _Thuringer Cervelat_... Pg. 173: _Pepperoni Sausage_... Pg. 174: _Swedish Medwurst_... Pg. 175: _Italian Salami_... Pg. 176: _German Salami_... Pg. 177: _Chorizos_... Pg. 179: _Milano Salami, Alessandria, D'Arles_..._Mortadella_..._Apennino_...Sarno_... Pg. 178: _Cappicola_ Cappicola is made from a cured pork butt which has been held for 20 days in a freezer at a temperature of 5(degrees--ed.)F. either before or after curing. Pg. 180: _Genoa Salami_..._Cooked Salami_ (Salami Cotto)..._Kosher Salami_... Pg. 207: _Braunschweiger Mettwurst_... Pg. 209: _Souse--Sulz_ Head cheese, souse and sulz are very similar products. Originally sulz was made of pigsfeet with the bone in. Later it was made from boneless material to permit slicing. At the present time, the main difference between head cheese and sulz or souse is that vinegar is used in the latter two products and a larger percentage of jelly is included, as is indicated in the following formula... Pg. 287: _Luncheon Meat_ The best grades of luncheon meat are made from lean pork trimmings. (OED has "luncheon meat" from 1945--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 00:46:10 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 19:46:10 -0500 Subject: Pinot, Grenache, Rose Wine (1829) Message-ID: THE VINE-DRESSER'S THEORETICAL AND PRACTICAL MANUAL, OR THE ART OF CULTIVATING THE VINE by Thiebaut de Berneaus New-York: P. Canfield 1829 The earliest wine volume by C. Redding goes back to 1833, so this is a little earlier. Again, Merriam-Webster has "pinot noir" from 1941. Pg. 18: THE BLACK BURGUNDY. _le Bourguignon voir_. The sort generally known by this name, is sometimes called _franc Pineau_, _Farinau_, _Noirier_, _Auvernas_. Pg. 24: And now, under the single name of _Pinot_ or _Pineau_ almost every red grape may be found so called by the Vintagers, without any one being able to answer whether this name, which only suits such sorts as have berries shaped like the pine-cone, is given by them to the kind to which this name (Pg. 25--ed.) belongs, and which is cultivated in the Departments of the Yonne, Cote-d'Or, Saone and Loire; or to that grape which yields the small wines of Vosges and the flat wines of Haute-Vienne. Pg. 149: France produces a considerable number of good wuality, fit to compete with expensive imported wines of this kind. There are red and white; those rated best, are the white Muscats or Rivesaltes (Eastern Pyrennees,) which connoisseurs liken to the best Malvoisy; Frontignac and Lunel, (Herault); the red _Grenache_ wine from the vineyards of Bagnyals, Cosperon, Rhodes, and Collioure (Eastern Pyrenees,) the keen zest of which rivals the Rota or even Cyprus wine; the white _Macabeo_, made at Saleeta, (same department,) and which somewhat favours Tokay; and the Muscats called _Picardan_, _Calabrian_, _Malaga_ and _Madeira_ imitations &c. which are prepared in several of the vinegrounds of the department of Herault. Pg. 151: Rose Wine. The grapes in the department of Marne, intended for rose wine, are culled and gathered with the same precautions as those for sparkling wine;... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 01:57:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:57:43 -0500 Subject: Aluminum Foil (1870) Message-ID: "Aluminum foil" is not an entry in OED (earliest cite 1946?). It's been used to wrap food in. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Nov 19, 1870; Vol. Vol. XXIII., Iss. 0 7. SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN.; THE REDUCING PROPERTIES METALLIC ALUMINUM. ; pg. 325, 1 pgs ("Regular octohedra crystals of thallium formed upon the aluminum foil from a solution of the sulphate after a lapse of ten days.") (JSTOR databse) Hints to Travellers George Back; Francis Galton Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society of London, Vol. 16, No. 1. (1871 - 1872), pp. 1+3+5-78. Pg. 22: A disc of aluminum foil, procurable at Johnson, Matthey, & Co., 77, Hatton Garen, London, is only one-ninth part the weight of a mother-of-pearl card of the same size. Quadrant Electrometers W. E. Ayrton; J. Perry; W. E. Sumpner Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London. A, Vol. 182. (1891), pp. 519-564. Pg. 539: ...attaching a piece of thin aluminum foil to it... The Revival of Alchemy H. Carrington Bolton Science, New Series, Vol. 6, No. 154. (Dec. 10, 1897), pp. 853-863. Pg. 858: He placed in a stout glass tube a piece of aluminum foil with pure nitric acid and sealed the tube hermetically. http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blaluminum.htm (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS database) Aluminum Co. of America.; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 7, 1913; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("The site of the first plant in the United States for rolling aluminum foil has been selected at Arnold, Pa.") (US PATENT AND TRADEMARK records) Word Mark REYNOLDS WRAP Goods and Services IC 006. US 014. G & S: ALUMINUM FOIL SHEETS AND ROLLS. FIRST USE: 19470900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19470900 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72038386 Filing Date October 4, 1957 Registration Number 0677909 Registration Date May 5, 1959 Owner (REGISTRANT) REYNOLDS METALS COMPANY CORPORATION DELAWARE 6601 WEST BROAD STREET RICHMOND VIRGINIA 23230 Prior Registrations 0605277 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19990608 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark CHEF-FOIL PURE ALUMINUM HOUSEHOLD FOIL Goods and Services IC 006. US 014. G & S: ALUMINUM FOIL. FIRST USE: 19521022. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19521022 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 050910 080101 080525 081101 081106 110313 190704 190705 200302 261109 261121 Serial Number 71640785 Filing Date March 2, 1954 Registration Number 0590094 Registration Date May 18, 1954 Owner (REGISTRANT) COCHRAN FOIL COMPANY DBA COCHRAN FOIL PRODUCTS CO. CORPORATION KENTUCKY 1430 S. 13TH ST. LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY (LAST LISTED OWNER) ALCAN ALUMINUM CORPORATION CORPORATION BY MERGER AND CHANGE OF NAME FROM OHIO P. O. BOX 6977 CLEVELAND OHIO 441011977 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 0549290 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19940818 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark REYNOLDS WRAP Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 016. US 037. G & S: WRAPPING SHEETS. FIRST USE: 19530911. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19530911 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 240907 260302 260925 Serial Number 71654843 Filing Date February 14, 1955 Registration Number 0605277 Registration Date April 26, 1955 Owner (REGISTRANT) REYNOLDS METALS COMPANY CORPORATION DELAWARE REYNOLDS METALS BLDG. RICHMOND VIRGINIA Prior Registrations 0329760;0332398;0545767 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19750426 Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Word Mark REYNOLDS WRAP Goods and Services IC 006. US 014. G & S: ALUMINUM FOIL. FIRST USE: 19580900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19580900 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 261112 261121 261321 Serial Number 73072886 Filing Date December 29, 1975 Change In Registration CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED Registration Number 1067092 Registration Date June 7, 1977 Owner (REGISTRANT) REYNOLDS METALS COMPANY CORPORATION DELAWARE 6601 W. BROAD STREET RICHMOND VIRGINIA 23230 Attorney of Record ALAN T MCDONALD Prior Registrations 0605277;0677909;0818018 Disclaimer THE DESCRIPTIVE WORD "WRAP" IS NOT CLAIMED HEREIN APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN. Description of Mark THE DRAWING IS LINED TO DESIGNATE THE COLORS BLUE, SILVER, AND PINK. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19970130 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 02:16:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:16:13 -0500 Subject: Amer Picon (1889) Message-ID: OED has 1914 for "Amer Picon," under "Picon." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Oct 1889; Vol. Vol. III,, Iss. 0 1. What the French People Drink; --London Victualler ; pg. 316, 2 pgs Pg. 317: Curacoa, a liqueur made with orange peel and brandy, raspail, noyeau, humel, white wine, clarets, etc.; cider, cergear, groseille, cassis, lemonade, anisette, byrrh, and amer picon. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 02:47:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 21:47:09 -0500 Subject: Anjou pear (1881) Message-ID: "Anjou pear" is not in OED. The American Periodical Series database doesn't have it? POINTS FOR HOUSEKEEPERS.; VARIETIES AND PRICES OF THE FRUITS THAT REMAIN IN MARKET.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 31, 1881; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Beurre d'Anjou pears (one of the best table fruits) are now offered on the market for about $8 per barrel, or $3 per box.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 03:19:21 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:19:21 -0500 Subject: Bavarian Cream (1851, 1854, 1856, 1860, 1861) Message-ID: OED has 1880 for "Bavarian cream." (GERRITSEN COLLECTION) Anonymous [Full Citation] [Page Image] The Carolina housewife : or, House and home Charleston, S.C.: W.R. Babcock, 1851, 212 pgs. ("Bavarian Cream..121") (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Otis, Eliza Henderson (Bordman) "Mrs. Harrison Gray Otis," 1796-1873. Title: The Barclays of Boston. By Mrs. Harrison Gray Otis. Publication date: 1854. Search results: 1 match in full text list of all pages | view first page | add to bookbag Page 241 - 1 term matching ("...--to lard a partridge, and compound a Bavarian cream--...") (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) May, 1856 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LII page 473 (...) ONE of our lady subscribers some time since asked for a recipe to make << Bavarian cream>> . We have been very kindly furnished it by ?a friend,? to whom we return our thanks, and will be pleased to receive from her other recipes from her ?twenty years' actual experience.? RECIPE FOR << BAVARIAN CREAM>> . Mix one pint of thick cream with the juice of a large lemon and a glass of white wine; put the peel of the lemon in whole, with a sufficient quantity of loaf sugar to sweeten it; beat them well together with a whisk; put a piece of clean muslin over the mould, and pour the cream in; let it drain till the following day, then turn it out carefully. There are earthenware moulds on purpose, with small holes to let out the whey. April, 1861 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LXII Page 345 (...) I hope Thomas won't tell about my asking him how to seat my company at dinner, and how to dish out the Dariolas with Ratafias and the << Bavarian Cream>> . (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) De Treville, Mary Darby, fl. 1861-1865. "Letter from Mary Darby De Treville, 1860" [Page 182 | Paragraph | Section | Document] It may seem strange for us to be dancing at such a time, but the boys on furlough would plead so hard for dances, saying "we have no pleasure and we enjoy the dances so much." In January, 1865, we held the last bazaar. I was at the Louisiana Table, presided over by Mrs. Slocum. The Bavarian cream was in great demand; kept me busy helping the officers and soldiers who were there (not many); one officer with a brand new uniform was a striking figure; when he asked for cream, I looked curiously at him. He said, "What's the matter? Why don't you help me?" I replied, "You don't look as if you had Results Bibliography De Treville, Mary Darby, fl. 1861-1865, Letter from Mary Darby De Treville, 1860, in South Carolina Women in the Confederacy, vol. 2. Conner, Mrs. James. Columbia, SC: State Company, 1907, pp. 244. [Bibliographic Details] [1860] S2064-D002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 03:46:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:46:53 -0500 Subject: Blender (1939) Message-ID: OED has 1948 for the "blender" used in cooking. Word Mark BLENDOR Goods and Services IC 007. US 021. G & S: ELECTRICAL DISINTEGRATORS AND MIXERS FOR PRODUCING FLUID SUBSTANCES FROM SOLID FOODS AND OTHER ORGANIC MATTER AND FOR INTERMIXING FLUIDS. FIRST USE: 19390518. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19390518 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 71606582 Filing Date November 17, 1950 Registration Number 0585384 Registration Date February 9, 1954 Owner (REGISTRANT) WARING PRODUCTS CORPORATION CORPORATION DELAWARE 25 WEST 43RD STREET NEW YORK NEW YORK (LAST LISTED OWNER) DYNAMICS CORPORATION OF AMERICA CORPORATION BY MERGER WITH NEW YORK 475 STEAMBOAT ROAD GREENWICH CONNECTICUT 06830 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record THEODORE R. PAULDING Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19940915 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 04:27:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 23:27:30 -0500 Subject: Blue Point oysters (1783); Lombardi's Pizzeria is 53 1/2 Message-ID: LOMBARDI'S PIZZERIA Admit it, you've been on pins and needles wondering if Gennaro Lombardi's pizzeria was really at 53 1/3 Spring Street. The first "reverse directory" of Manhattan was published in 1929, and this shows a 5-18-1929 date. 1929 MANHATTAN ADDRESS TELEPHONE DIRECTORY, pg. 205: 53 1/2 Brown & Fogel mens coats M8 CAN-9567 53 1/2 Lombardi G bakery CAN-10298 --------------------------------------------------------------- BLUE POINT OYSTERS OED has 1789 for "blue point oysters." I'll try to do better when more pre-1800 material becomes available. Accessible Archives Search and Information Server March 5, 1783 The Pennsylvania Gazette NEW YORK, Feb. 26. L'Aimable Catichette, captain Stephen Patie, from Guadaloupe, for Virginia, prize to his majestyships Amphion and Cyclops, ran on shore last Friday night, back of Staten Island, and on Sunday vessels were sent down to endeavour to get her off. (...) The same day was brought in, taken by some oystermen at << Blue point>> , the sloop Dolphin, captain Scranton, of 6 guns and 20 men from Boston. From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Sun Apr 6 08:34:01 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:34:01 +0100 Subject: Aluminum Foil (1870) In-Reply-To: <46D55113.646C7438.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: > "Aluminum foil" is not an entry in OED (earliest cite 1946?). > It's been used to wrap food in. Our crazy British spellings have confused you. "Aluminium foil" is there, defined as "paper-thin sheet aluminium, used as wrapping material, etc", though no citation exists for that sense under the heading. The earliest example is 1892, concerning its use as an alternative to magnesium in photographic flash guns. The earliest example of general scientific use is 1931, of food wrapping 1962. MoA can match your earliest example: 1870 Fresenius, C. Remigius "A system of instruction in quantitative chemical analysis" 14 With respect to the material most suitable for the manufacture of weights, we commonly rest satisfied with having the smaller weights only, from 1 or 0.5 gramme downwards, made of platinum or aluminium foil, using brass weights for all the higher denominations. That equation is a good illustration of the cost of aluminium at that period, as it only became affordable after the electrolytic process was commercialised in the early 1890s. Also, it shows that the metal's name was usually spelled "aluminium" in the USA at that date (the book was published by John Wiley in New York). -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From gcohen at UMR.EDU Sun Apr 6 14:19:17 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 09:19:17 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," "Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to mind now is "Stengelese." Casey Stengel was manager of the New York Yankees during much (all?) of the 1950's. During his press conferences he often talked in a way that had reporters scratching their heads in confusion, and they referred to his manner of speaking as "Stengelese." At one point the Yankees fired Stengel for allegedly being too old to continue at the helm, despite his remarkably successful record, and at his next press conference Stengel spoke with complete clarity about the unfairness of the action. Many of the reporters were surprised that he could talk clearly after all. Gerald Cohen >At 6:42 PM -0500 4/5/03, Billionbridges.com wrote: >In a rather hysterical article written in Chinese I came across >recently a Taiwanese person rants that the epithets in English >denoting nationality which use the "ese" suffix are insulting >and racist (where those which do not, such as "American" or >"German" etc., are not). The author claims that "ese" was >traditionally used by the English in adjectives describing unimportant, >weak, strange or sickly things or people(s). He further relates >personal anecdotes in which the term "Chinese" has been used >by Americans in scorn. In his estimation "Chinese" is as insulting >to, erm, Chinese as "nigger" is to African-Americans. > >Hypersensitive and misguided? Clearly. An ignorant crackpot? Well, >the author has decided that in future when English-speakers ask >where he's from he will answer the "Central Kingdom of Sinai." He >is a Sinaian, he says. > >Nevertheless, leaving Egypt and the politics of the Taiwan Strait aside, >I wonder where this author's conception that the "ese" suffix is insulting >came from? Or is this completely baseless and/or irredeemably idiolectic? > >The link, for the Chinese-enabled: >http://teacher.cyivs.cy.edu.tw/~hchung/despisechinese.htm > >Best, >Don From douglas at NB.NET Sun Apr 6 17:27:49 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:27:49 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* >become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something >that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," >"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to >mind now is "Stengelese." I think of "bureaucratese" first. "X-ese" as a noun here = "language of X". The suffix "-ese" is apparently the English reflex of Latin genitive ending "-ensis", which is still used as a sort of default genitive in modern Latin. So for example the organism Nocardia beijingensis is the Nocardia "of Beijing", while Legionella pittsburghensis refers to the Legionella "of Pittsburgh", while Pseudomonas wisconsinensis is named after Wisconsin, etc. Similarly a University of Wisconsin seal might read "Universitatis Wisconsinensis Sigillum" = "Seal of the University of Wisconsin". So the long-term etymology does not support the "derogatory" thesis. Why is "-ese" more frequent in application to East Asia? There are "Portuguese", "Viennese", "Faroese", etc., in Europe, but there are many more "-eses" in Asia ("Shanghainese", "Pekinese", "Siamese", "Sundanese", "Singhalese", etc., etc.): is it because East Asians (along with persons from Vienna or the Faroes perhaps?) are/were despised? I would say no, it is because places far from the Roman Empire had no names in Latin and therefore no natural genitive endings, so they tend to take the 'default' ending "-ensis", thus "-ese" (with some obvious exceptions where a name looks like it could conform to another Latin paradigm, e.g., "Korea"/"Korean"). Scotland was known to Rome, so a bacterium named after Scotland for example is Actinobacillus scotiae (NOT "scotlandensis" or whatever) using the established genitive ending for Scotia = Scotland. Neither Japan nor Wisconsin (nor Congo) was known to Rome, so their names lack declensions from classical Latin. [No doubt my perception is absurdly oversimplified, and perhaps I'm completely in error on some of my examples. The place-names in many cases actually came through French and other Romance languages, I believe.] -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 20:34:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:34:49 -0400 Subject: Blush Wine (1984) Message-ID: "Blush wine" is not in the OED. "Blush," meaning "rosy colour," is in the OED from 1590. The NEW YORK TIMES first citation is 1984, and it becomes very frequent after that. Obviously, if I had full text of a California newspaper, that would help. 1 August 1984, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. C16 ad: "BLUSH WINES" (WORLDCAT database) Title: Minimizing browning in blush wines with sulfur dioxide, glucose oxidase, ascorbic acid, tannic acid, and hyperoxidation / Author(s): Hatfield, Jason M. (Jason Matthew) Year: 1994 Description: viii, 82 leaves : ill. ; 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Wine and wine making. Oxidation. Note(s): "December 1994."/ Includes bibliographical references./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--University of Arkansas, Fayetteville, 1994. Class Descriptors: LC: TP548.5.B76 Responsibility: by Jason M. Hatfield. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19950727 Update: 20020705 Accession No: OCLC: 32882813 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 20:55:37 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:55:37 -0400 Subject: Carolina Rice (1764, 1776, 1787) Message-ID: OED has 1787 for "Carolina rice," where it was coined by Thomas Jefferson. The OXFORD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FOOD AND DRINK probably has Karen Hess's writings on the subject, but I'll add these citations anyway. The first citation below looks like a surname. (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) July 23, 1741 The Pennsylvania Gazette NEW YORK, July 20. On Saturday last six Negroes were executed at the Gallows, and one at the Stake; one of those that was hang'd behav'd with such unparallel'd impenitance and impudence as to amaze the Spectators. Custom-House, New York, June 22. Entred Inwards. Cannon from Boston and Rhode Island. Entred Out. Banter for Rhode Island, Good and Denmark for Boston, Rice for North Carolina, Bascome for Bermudas, Righton for St. Christophers, Walker for Barbados. Cleared, Stout to Madeira and Lisbon, Hepburn to Dublin, Gill and Kippen to Maryland, Schermerhorn to South << Carolina>> , << Rice>> to North Carolina, Hunt to Bermudas, Pitts to Barbados, Eve and Adderly to Jamaica, Hunter to Rhode Island, Cooper and McKenty to Newfoundland. August 9, 1764 The Pennsylvania Gazette (...) Likewise, a few barrels of choice new << Carolina rice>> ; rum, by the hogshead or barrel; all which will be sold on very low terms for cash. February 14, 1776 The Pennsylvania Gazette THOMAS ROKER HEREBY informs the Public, that he is removed from his late dwelling house, at the corner of Laetitia Court, in Market street, to the corner of Arch and Water streets, near the New Ferry, where he has for sale, a general assortment of Wet Goods and Groceries, as usual, amongst which are a few gallons excellent arrack, 12 years old, and some old genuine French brandy; wine and cyder vinegar, by the large or small quantity; coffee, by the bag, barrel, or pound; << Carolina rice>> , by the tierce or smaller quantity; mustard, by the pound or in bottles; coffee, burnt and ground; chocolate, pepper, alspice, ginger, Florence oil. English split pease, oatmeal, grotts, indigo, citron, &c. &c. &c. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The New - Haven Gazette, and the Connecticut Magazine (1786-1789), New Haven; Jan 11, 1787; Vol. 1, Iss. 47 American intelligence: New-York, January 2; Anonymous; pg. 362, 2 pgs (Pg. 363: It has also been determined that particular information be taken concerning the sonsumptions of Carolina rice in France, and that means be devised to encourage the importation of that article.) From gcohen at UMR.EDU Sun Apr 6 21:20:34 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:20:34 -0500 Subject: Irving Lewis Allen died Message-ID: I have sad news to pass along: I hadn't heard from Irving Lewis Allen for a while and today received a message from his wife that he passed away in June after a six-month illness from cancer. Irving was Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut at Storrs and authored (among other works) _The City in Slang: New York Life and Popular Speech_ (New York: Oxford University Press), 1993. We were in frequent contact during his preparation of the book and remained in touch afterwards too. Gerald Cohen From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 21:24:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:24:19 -0400 Subject: Butter Clam (1924, 1928, 1932, 1935) Message-ID: OED has no entry and only one mention of "butter clams" in 1962. I have to do something for those readers at the University of Washington. (FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION by Sharon Herbst) butter clam A small, sweet, hard-shell clam from Puget Sound. Butter clams can be cooked in a variety of ways, including steaming, stewing and frying. (WORLDCAT) Title: The morphology of the Butter clam, Saxidomus giganteus, Deshayes Author: Rosen, Hilda Florence Libraries with Item: "The morphology of the But..."( Record for Item )Location Library Code WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: The morphology of the Butter clam, Saxidomus giganteus, Deshayes ... Author(s): Rosen, Hilda Florence. Year: 1924 Description: 39 numb. L. 54 figures on XXXI plates. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Clams. Note(s): Type-written./ Each plate accompanied by guard-sheet with descriptive letter-press./ Bibliography: L.35-39./ Dissertation: A thesis submitted for the degree of Master of Science--University of Washington, 1924. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19961010 Update: 19961010 Accession No: OCLC: 35712401 Database: WorldCat (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Forum and Century (1930-1940), New York; Dec 1932; Vol. VOL. LXXXVIII, Iss. 0 We Americans; I--Fred salo, the Forgotten Man I ; by TOM JONES PARRY; pg. 330, 6 pgs (Pg. 334: The tide was way out when they got to the point, and they dug a whole truck load of razor-back and butter clams, and some of the men got gooey ducks.) (JSTOR) A Study of the Animal Communities of a Restricted Area of Soft Bottom in the San Juan Channel (in Some Marine Biotic Communities of the Pacific Coast of North America; Part II. A Study of the Animal Communities of a Restricted Area of Soft Bottom in the San Juan Channel) Nettie M. Wismer; John H. Swanson Ecological Monographs, Vol. 5, No. 3. (Jul., 1935), pp. 333-354. (Pg. 349: _Fraser, C. McLean and Smith, Gertrude M._ 1928b. Notes on the ecology of the butter clam, Saxidomus giganteus Deshayes. Trans. Roy. Soc. Can. Ser. 3 22:271-286. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 21:57:05 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 17:57:05 -0400 Subject: Butter Curler (1914); Irving Lewis Allen Message-ID: IRVING LEWIS ALLEN Irving Lewis Allen's CITY IN SLANG was the first book to mention my work and my name. In December 1992, I lectured briefly on "the Big Apple" before the American Name Society dinner (at the MLA convention in NYC). Irving Lewis Allen, Fred Cassidy, and Allen Walker Read were there--all three are now dead. William Safire or his assistant wasn't even kind enough to return a self-addressed stamped envelope. Allen wanted to meet me in the city, but I was doing parking tickets seven days a week back then, losing my parents and almost losing my home. I haven't been in contact with him since about 1995. In retrospect, I should have met up with him. I'd like to use CITY IN SLANG as a model for WINDY CITY WORDS that maybe Allen Metcalf might be interested in. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTER CURLER Not in OED. 20 September 1914, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 16: _3 cases of German Housewares Novelties_ ...Butter Curlers, 25c;... From mam at THEWORLD.COM Sun Apr 6 22:43:46 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:43:46 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030406123127.024f44a0@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Douglas G. Wilson wrote: #> The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* #>become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something #>that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," #>"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to #>mind now is "Stengelese." # #I think of "bureaucratese" first. "X-ese" as a noun here = "language of X". # #Why is "-ese" more frequent in application to East Asia? There are #"Portuguese", "Viennese", "Faroese", etc., in Europe, but there are many #more "-eses" in Asia ("Shanghainese", "Pekinese", "Siamese", "Sundanese", #"Singhalese", etc., etc.): is it because East Asians (along with persons #from Vienna or the Faroes perhaps?) are/were despised? I would say no, it #is because places far from the Roman Empire had no names in Latin and #therefore no natural genitive endings, so they tend to take the 'default' #ending "-ensis", thus "-ese" (with some obvious exceptions where a name #looks like it could conform to another Latin paradigm, e.g., #"Korea"/"Korean"). And we do have "Milanese" -- does that come straight from Italian? -- and "Viennese". -- Mark A. Mandel From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 6 23:00:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:00:01 -0400 Subject: Buttermilk Pie (1940s); Buttercup Squash (1932); Butterhead Lettuce (1942) Message-ID: BUTTERMILK PIE DARE doesn't have "buttermilk pie." It appears to be regional. I'll check my Tennessee cookbooks. 9 November 1952, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. X32 ad: TENNESSEE COOK BOOK Packed with recipes for the kind of food that wins honors at county fairs! Nothing like it! Wonderful dishes--simple to follow--delicious to eat. Syllabub, Buttermilk Pie, Clinch Meat Cake, Hush Puppies--over 300 other favorites. Perfect gift, $1 postpaid. Pioneer Press Harriman, Tennessee (WORLDCAT database) Title: Buttermilk pie and lace veil : completing the story of our black mammy Author: Dillard, Lillian Madison Libraries with Item: "Buttermilk pie and lace v..."( Record for Item )Location Library Code AL AUBURN UNIV AAA AL SAMFORD UNIV LIBR ABF Libraries that Own Item: 2 Title: Buttermilk pie and lace veil : completing the story of our black mammy / Author(s): Dillard, Lillian Madison, 1880- Publication: Nashville, Tenn. : Parthenon Press, Year: 1940-1949? Description: [44] p. : ill. ; 21 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: African Americans in literature. Class Descriptors: LC: PS3507.I455 Responsibility: by Lillian Madison Dillard. Document Type: Book Entry: 19891005 Update: 20001211 Accession No: OCLC: 20443961 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERCUP SQUASH DARE has 1949 for "buttercup squash." 5 October 1952, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. X30: Newer than Butternut is the Buttercup squash. THis is round yet flattened and green. The orange flesh with a nutty flavor is reminiscent of Butternut. (WORLDCAT database) Title: Buttercup squash : its origin and use Author: Yeager, A. F Libraries with Item: "Buttercup squash : / its ..."( Record for Item )Location Library Code IL UNIV OF ILLINOIS UIU IL UNIV OF ILLINOIS, AGR ARL RECON RQF MA HARVARD UNIV, BOTANY LIBR BOH MD NATIONAL AGR LIBR AGL ND NORTH DAKOTA STATE UNIV LIBR NWQ Libraries that Own Item: 5 Title: Buttercup squash : its origin and use / Author(s): Yeager, A. F. 1892- (Albert Franklin),; Latzke, Esther,; 1896- Publication: [Fargo] : Agricultural Experiment Station, North Dakota Agricultural College, Year: 1932 Description: 19 p. : ill., 1 chart ; 23 cm. Language: English Series: Bulletin / North Dakota Agricultural Experiment Station ;; no. 258; Variation: Bulletin (North Dakota Agricultural Experiment Station (Fargo)) ;; no. 258. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Squashes. Cookery (Squash) Note(s): Includes recipes. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 630.7; NAL: 100 Responsibility: by A.F. Yeager and E. Latzke. Document Type: Book Entry: 19881013 Update: 20011028 Accession No: OCLC: 18603741 Database: WorldCat (JSTOR database) 1. The Composition of the Aerial Parts of the Summer Squash (Cucurbita Pepo) at Different Stages of Development C. W. Culpepper American Journal of Botany, Vol. 24, No. 9. (Nov., 1937), pp. 565-573. 2. The Present and Potential Service of Chemistry to Plant Breeding Albert F. Blakeslee American Journal of Botany, Vol. 26, No. 3. (Mar., 1939), pp. 163-172. 3. Chemically Induced Parthenocarpy in Certain Horticultural Plants, with Special Reference to the Watermelon C. Y. Wong Botanical Gazette, Vol. 103, No. 1. (Sep., 1941), pp. 64-86. 4. A Comparative Study of Different Methods of Determining Activities of Growth-Promoting Substances Felix G. Gustafson American Journal of Botany, Vol. 30, No. 8. (Oct., 1943), pp. 649-654. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERHEAD LETTUCE Not in OED or DARE. 11 January 1942, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. D10 ad: _Burpee's Suburban Garden_ (...) ...butterhead Lettuce, loosehead Lettuce,... From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Sun Apr 6 23:05:37 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:05:37 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd have thought the more immediate connection would have been to Fr. /-ais/, /-aise/, /-ois/, /-oise/? A Murie From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 00:37:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:37:43 -0400 Subject: Yannigan (23 February 1895) Message-ID: The New York Public Library has this gap in SPORTING LIFE from 1891-1895: Call # *ZAN-2413 Library has: v. 1-6, 9-16, 25-70; Apr. 15, 1883-Apr. 7, 1886, Apr. 13, 1887-Mar. 28, 1891, Mar. 1895-June 3, 1922. *ZZAN-1407 Library has: v. 1-6, 9-16, 25-70; Apr. 15, 1883-Apr. 7, 1886, Apr. 13, 1887-Mar. 28, 1891, Mar. 1895-June 3, 1922. MASTER NEGATIVE (of *ZAN-2413) Title Sporting life; the loyal champion of clean sport [microform]. Imprint Philadelphia [etc.] I was searching for "fan" a few years ago, so I bought copies of the microfilm reels where there are gaps. The microfilms showed themselves again when I was moving some books in my tiny studio apartment ("the Popik archives"), so I searched for "yannigan." I had previously posted the word from 25 March 1895. 23 February 1895, SPORTING LIFE, pg. 5, col. 2, "WASHINGTON NEWS": Charley Abbey will not be at fault if the Senators do not have the finest collection of bats in the business this season. Early last fall Treasurer Earl Wagner gave him an order on Tappan's for five dozen bats. He selected the sticks himself, cleared out a place in the dry room of the store, where he strung them on wires, and regularly twice a week since that time he has oiled them carefully. Said he the other day. "Well, if the Yannigans can't crack out singles, doubles, triples and homers with that lot of clubs they can't bat at all, and had better go to farming." Manager Schmelz has coined another new one. Referring to one or two of his new recruits the other day, he said, "They are Japanese"--meaning, they are all right. If the Washingtons did not already have a high-sounding title in the Senators they might be sailing under the name of "the Japs" this season. (Gerald Cohen may re-post this to SABR--ed.) From flanigan at OHIO.EDU Sun Apr 6 16:38:56 2003 From: flanigan at OHIO.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:38:56 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... At 09:19 AM 4/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: > The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* >become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something >that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," >"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to >mind now is "Stengelese." Casey Stengel was manager of the New York >Yankees during much (all?) of the 1950's. >During his press conferences he often talked in a way that had >reporters scratching their heads in confusion, and they referred to >his manner of speaking as "Stengelese." At one point the Yankees >fired Stengel for allegedly being too old to continue at the helm, >despite his remarkably successful record, and at his next press >conference Stengel spoke with complete clarity about the unfairness >of the action. Many of the reporters were surprised that he could >talk clearly after all. > >Gerald Cohen > > >>At 6:42 PM -0500 4/5/03, Billionbridges.com wrote: >>In a rather hysterical article written in Chinese I came across >>recently a Taiwanese person rants that the epithets in English >>denoting nationality which use the "ese" suffix are insulting >>and racist (where those which do not, such as "American" or >>"German" etc., are not). The author claims that "ese" was >>traditionally used by the English in adjectives describing unimportant, >>weak, strange or sickly things or people(s). He further relates >>personal anecdotes in which the term "Chinese" has been used >>by Americans in scorn. In his estimation "Chinese" is as insulting >>to, erm, Chinese as "nigger" is to African-Americans. >> >>Hypersensitive and misguided? Clearly. An ignorant crackpot? Well, >>the author has decided that in future when English-speakers ask >>where he's from he will answer the "Central Kingdom of Sinai." He >>is a Sinaian, he says. >> >>Nevertheless, leaving Egypt and the politics of the Taiwan Strait aside, >>I wonder where this author's conception that the "ese" suffix is insulting >>came from? Or is this completely baseless and/or irredeemably idiolectic? >> >>The link, for the Chinese-enabled: >>http://teacher.cyivs.cy.edu.tw/~hchung/despisechinese.htm >> >>Best, >>Don From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 02:06:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:06:38 -0400 Subject: Boniato (1949, 1952, 1986, 1987) Message-ID: OED has no entry for "boniato." There are over 1,000 Google hits for "boniato" and "potato." (JSTOR database) An Independent Farm in Cuba R. L. Tuthill Economic Geography, Vol. 25, No. 3. (Jul., 1949), pp. 201-210. (Pg. 207: Boniato (sweet potato).) The Feixes of Ibiza George M. Foster Geographical Review, Vol. 42, No. 2. (Apr., 1952), pp. 227-237. (Pg. 233: The most complex form is that prepared for the _boniato_ (Convolvulus batatas_), the main crop.) 1. In U.S. Produce, an Explosion of Exotica; By ELIZABETH SCHNEIDER; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 4, 1989; pg. C1, 2 pgs 2. LATIN CROPS SPUR A BOOM IN FLORIDA; Hispanic Farmers See Chance to Cash in on the Demand; By GEORGE VOLSKY, Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1987; pg. A16, 1 pgs ("'The Latin fruit and vegetable market is exploding like crazy'... Mr. Aguiar has begun planting malanga, a tuber much like a bland potato; boniato, a white-fleshed sweet potato; yucca, or sweet cassava; and calabaza, also called a Cuban squash.") 3. Tasting Cuba In Miami's Little Havana; A mix of Old and New World flavors; By SUSAN HELLER ANDERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 14, 1986; pg. XX14, 1 pgs ("Some dishes that should be samples are boniato relleno con tasajo, sweet potato stuffed with dried beef;..." From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Mon Apr 7 02:25:16 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:25:16 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" In-Reply-To: <604471B9.2DA40BAF.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: I have been having an argument with an acquaintance about which English word has the greatest number of meanings. I have been giving the standard OED answer of "set," but he insists it's "run" because in his dictionary, the American Heritage, "run" has more senses. In formulating my latest answer to him, it would help me to understand why the American Heritage comes out contrary to OED on this point. Would people interpret this as meaning that "run" is more polysemous in American English than it is in British English, or vice-versa with "set"? Or is the explanation that "set" has more obscure senses than "run" does, and that "set" therefore pulls ahead of "run" when a larger dictionary with more obscure senses is consulted? Or is there some other explanation? Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Dalecoye at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 02:30:25 2003 From: Dalecoye at AOL.COM (Dale Coye) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:30:25 EDT Subject: Article on British army slang in Iraq War Message-ID: >From the Glasgow Herald (the Scotsman and the Herald have excellent war coverage by the way) Army trained in linguistic manoeuvres When 'slotting' gets up close and personal IAN BRUCE with the Black Watch near Basra LIVING with the British Army can be a major linguistic challenge.Soldiers of all ranks talk in baffling acronyms. There are abbreviations for almost every facet of life, and in-house terms for anything not covered by Queen's Regulations."Just bimble down to the CP for a sitrep from the 2IC." In English, that translates as take a stroll down to the command post where the battalion's second in command will bring you up to date on what's happening.Rifles are gatts. Tank crews are trackies. Tankers call infantry crunchies, based on the sound they make when run over by 53 tons of armour. Fighter-bombers are fast-movers.Yet one strand of euphemism among the abbreviations and cynicism remains oddly consistent. In a frequently brutal world, no-one ever mentions the word "Kill". The vogue term for termination by gunfire, bayonet or grenade is "slotting". Snipers "ping" their targets, an expression with roots dating back to the trench warfare of the first world war. Enemies can be "wasted", "totalled" or "blown away", but never killed.Removing the name seems to make it easier to carry out the ultimate act of life taking. A sniper interviewed last week said he never thought of his victims as people, merely targets. It was his way of coping with the trauma of extinguishing another human's existence. Army training for the boys who have to go forward into harm's way is all about channelling aggression to achieve a result. But squeezing the trigger or thrusting a bayonet into an enemy's body remains an unnatural act for most.US studies of the performance of their comrade units in the second world war and in Korea showed that 15% of infantry "grunts" never fired their weapons at all in action. Another 20% deliberately aimed wide or high when confronted by an opponent whose face they could see.Despite quantum leaps in the technology of military hardware, the role of the frontline infantrymen has changed little in a millennium. His war is up close and personal Most fire-fights, once the artillery mortars, missiles and satellite guided bombs have done their work, still take place at less than 100yds range.The young soldiers who last week attacked the outer defences of Basra were shooting Iraqi militiamen at 30 yards or less, as rooftops, windows and street corners became frontline positions.Sergeant Duggie Dunbar, of Aberdeen, a Warrior vehicle commander, said: "Training under proximity of danger takes over once the rounds begin to fly. You concentrate on survival. Even the youngest of our lads responded instinctively. At that point, it's them or you."My backside was flapping like a rabbit's ears when I saw the first rocket propelled grenade rip past my turret. You just have to settle down and get on with the job. You can work out the moral rights or wrongs some other time."The high velocity rounds for the army's SA80 rifles are described as "5.5mm sleeping tablets". They are designed to provide the most permanent rest of all.When the "slotting" ends, the soldiers relax with "scran" or "scoff" - both terms for ration food - and then crawl gratefully into their "gonk bags", the bivouac sacks which allow them to sleep in the field.Anyway, now its time for another sitrep and then, hopefully a "womble" - a journey to the basic army commissary to pick up soft drinks, soap and toothpaste.No dramas, as they say. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 03:18:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:18:27 -0400 Subject: Cambric tea (1859, 1860, 1869) Message-ID: OED has 1888 for "cambric tea," U.S., hot milk and water, given to children in place of tea. Hm, maybe I can lecture on this at the Oxford Symposium this September: http://www.antoniotombolini.it/ilmercato/silvijadavidson/ofs2003.htm The earliest BROOKLYN EAGLE citation is 1887. I was surprised to see the NEW YORK TIMES beat it so badly: Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 2, 1859; pg. 3, 1 pgs Col. 4: _CAMBRIC TEA._ Read HEALTH AND DISEASE. H. B. PRICE, Publisher, No. 3 Everett House, New-York. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Mar 13, 1869, Iss. 0 1. THE MARKETS.; pg. 3, 1 pgs Pg. 3: They have had a "Hard Times party" in Wisconsin. The invitations were written on brown paper, and requested the guests to dress in their old clothes. Bean soup, crackers, and dried herrings constituted the refreshments, with "cambric tea" and water to wash them down. The guest walked home. Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Oct 20, 1860, Iss. 0 2. REARING CHILDREN.; pg. 8, 1 pgs Pg. 8: Should have nothing for supper but a single cup of warm drink, such as very weak tea of some kind, a cambric tea or warm milk and water, with one slice of cold bread and butter--nothing else. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 03:43:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:43:12 -0400 Subject: Carbohydrate (1853, 1858, 1865, 1868) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster have 1869 for "carbohydrate." Yep, we're doing the whole shooting match this month. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: Johnson, Samuel W. Title: How crops grow. Publication date: [c1868] Search results: 19 matches in full text Author: Parrish, Edward, 1822-1872. Title: A treatise on pharmacy ... By Edward Parrish ... Publication date: 1865. Search results: 9 matches in full text Author: Laurie, Joseph, d. 1865. Title: Elements of homoeopathic practice of physic, by J. Laurie, M.D ... Publication date: 1853. Search results: 1 match in full text Pg. 225: As soon, therefore, as osmose ceases, the maintenance of animal heat ceases, because after the carbohydrates and fat have been consumed, nothing remains but this splitting of nitrogenous matters;... (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) The Living age ... / Volume 57, Issue 731: pp. 641-720 p. 676 1 match of 'carbohydrate*' p. 683 1 match of 'carbohydrate*' in: Title: The Living age ... / Volume 57, Issue 731 Publisher: The Living age co. inc. etc. Publication Date: May 29, 1858 City: New York etc. Pages: 1042 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABR0102-0057&byte=197705792 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 04:33:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 00:33:25 -0400 Subject: Rabbit Food (1897, 1932); Roughage (1864, 1918) Message-ID: RABBIT FOOD OED has 1907 for "rabbit food" (food that rabbits eat). It then cites 1936 AMERICAN SPEECH for "rabbit food=lettuce." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Oct 1897; Vol. VOL. XXII.,, Iss. 0 Toil and Pleasure.; The Speaker ; Dora Roscoe.; pg. 352, 2 pgs Pg. 353: "'Au revoir, mesdames,' and a pleasant journey," she said, and taking her little sickle in one brown hand nad her sack for the rabbit food, she went her way down the steps, her sabots click-clacking on the cobble stones as she went. Finds Craze for Rough Foods Profitable to Physicians; Special Correspondence, THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 10, 1932; pg. E6, 1 pgs (Much of the indigestion and other stomach troubles now prevalent is attributed by Dr. Walter C. Alvarez of the Mayo Foundation Graduate School is too much roughage. The fad for what he calls rabbit food--spinach, greens, salads, raw fruit, celery, rutabaga, and bran foods has been overdone, he says, and he figures that the craze for roughage is worth $300 a month to any good stomach specialist.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ROUGHAGE OED has 1883 for "roughage," but then 1927 for the food sense used as above. (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES database) McRaven, Amanda Nantz. "Letter from Amanda Nantz McRaven to David Orlando McRaven, September 12, 1864" [ Note] [A. N. McRaven] Notes 28 Pulling fodder is a farm practice that has now about become extinct. As all old time farmers know, it was a process of augmenting the roughage for the livestock by pulling by hand the leaves or blades of corn, usually only those below the ear. It was tied by use of one of the blades and allowed to remain in the field several days in order to cure or dry. Two or three of these "hands," which was the usual amount a man could hold Results Bibliography McRaven, Amanda Nantz, 1820-1887, Letter from Amanda Nantz McRaven to David Orlando McRaven, September 12, 1864, in The Correspondence of David Olando McRaven and Amanda Nantz McRaven, 1864-1865. Brown, Louis A.. Raleigh, NC: North Carolina Division of Archives and History, 1949, pp. 58. [Bibliographic Details] [9-12-1864] S401-D008 (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Current Opinion (1913-1925), New York; Nov 1918; Vol. VOL. LXV, Iss. 0 Advertisement 2 -- No Title; pg. 341, 1 pgs ("Instead of relying on drugs, roughage and internal baths, take, as part of your food, substances that will keep bowel functions normal. There is _Fruitone, Nature's Own Remedy for Constipation and Bowel Trouble_...") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 05:13:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 01:13:25 -0400 Subject: Carotin, Carotene (1853); Beta-Carotene (1932, 1935) Message-ID: CAROTIN, CAROTENE OED and Merriam-Webster have 1861 MRS. BEETON for "carotin." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: Regnault, V. (Victor), 1810-1878. Title: Elements of chemistry: for the use of colleges, academies, and schools. Illus. by nearly seven hundred wood-cuts. Tr. from the French, by T. Forrest Betton ... and ed. with notes, by James C. Booth ... and William L. Faber. To which is appended a comparative table of French and English weights and measures. Publication date: 1853. Search results: 9 matches in full text --------------------------------------------------------------- BETA-CAROTENE Merriam-Webster has 1938 for "beta-carotene." (JSTOR database) Science News Science, New Series, Vol. 75, No. 1956. (Jun. 24, 1932), pp. 8a-10a. Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0036-8075%2819320624%293%3A75%3A1956%3C8a%3ASN%3E2.0.CO%3B2-4 Pg. 10: The eagerly awaited results of the biological work undertaken by Drs. F. P. Bowden and C. P. Snow, of the University of Cambridge, can not give the final proof that the carrot pigment, beta-carotene, has been changed into the growth-promoting vitamin A... Improved Methods for the Purification of the Common Carotenoids, and the Quantitative Measurement of Their Absorption Spectra Elmer S. Miller Botanical Gazette, Vol. 96, No. 3. (Mar., 1935), pp. 447-467. Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0006-8071%28193503%2996%3A3%3C447%3AIMFTPO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-C Pg. 448: Methods for the isolation of alpha and beta carotene and leaf xanthophyll are presented in this paper. (Nature 132:26 1933--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 06:02:40 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:02:40 -0400 Subject: Cellophane Noodles (1958); Glass Noodles (1984) Message-ID: CELLOPHANE NOODLES *A human bein's made of more than air With all that bulk, you're bound to see him there Unless that human bein' next to you Is unimpressive, undistinguished You know who... Cellophane Mister Cellophane Shoulda been my name Mister Cellophane 'Cause you can look right through me Walk right by me And never know I'm there! - Lyrics from the musical Chicago "Cellophane noodle" is not in the OED. There are about 3,400 Google hits for "cellophane noodles" and over 100 hits in the NEW YORK TIMES alone. Food News; Simple Decor Asset to New Restaurant; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 7, 1958; pg. 43, 1 pgs The Jade Palace, 860 Third Avenue (near Fifty-second Street)... Specialties on the a la carte dinner menu range in cost from chow fong shee (roast pork with sauteed Chinese vegetables and cellophane noodles) at $2.50 to lung har goi kow (chicken, lobster and Chinese vegetables) at $4.50. --------------------------------------------------------------- GLASS NOODLES "Glass noodle" is not in the OED. There are about 2,800 Google hits. This seems rather late and I'll try to do better. Chinese at the Mall; By PATRICIA BROOKS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 8, 1984; pg. CN23, 1 pgs Later, the duck meat was served as a separate course, garnished with crisp glass noodles, and mixed with strips of carrot, celery and bamboo. From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 7 06:39:46 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:39:46 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: In reply to Fred S's query, I would not recommend counting dictionary senses as an absolute way to determine relative polysemy. Reasons: 1. Different lexos and dict houses will handle the same word differently, as regards number of senses, and other things. Some lexos are "lumpers"; some are "splitters". 2. What is polysemy really? I think one might get a better sense for this by looking at the studies done in linguistics. Dictionaries do mirror linguistic reality, but they only mirror it. And some of those mirrors have not been cleaned recently, and have scratches and cracks in them. 3. What to count? In some houses (like Merriam), the verb and noun senses of a word will be in two different entries. Watch for that, too. Also, does one count the phrasal verbs that are built on words like _run_ and _set_, or not? I WOULD say that one can get some clue by comparing entries within a single dictionary. Look, say, at the Random House Unabridged for the American side, and at Shorter Oxford for the British. These are both fairly recently edited and are "unabridged" -- unlike big OED, many parts of which date back to Murray's time, or the Amer Heritage, which is not unabridged. The words _run_ and _set_ are good candidates, but I would also take a look at _take_. Frank Abate Frank Abate DRS (860) 349-5400 abatefr at earthlink.net From gcohen at UMR.EDU Mon Apr 7 13:47:43 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:47:43 -0500 Subject: "Yanigan" --Baseball researcher Peter Morris antedates it by two years (to 1893) Message-ID: Congratulations to Peter Morris for his further antedating of the now obsolete baseball term "Yannigan." Below my signoff is the message he sent to the research group for 19th Century Baseball. Gerald Cohen >From: "Peter Morris" >To: <19cBB at yahoogroups.com> >Cc: , >Subject: RE: [19cBB] "Yannigan"--Barry Popik spots earliest >attestation (23 Feb. 1895) >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:45:25 -0400 > >Here's an 1893 instance: > >Sporting News, July 22, 1893, "Baltimore's Yannigan Treadway with the hoarse >laugh and the round tanned face made a hit in Chicago." > >Peter Morris From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Apr 7 14:23:23 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:23:23 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas G. Wilson" To: Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > > The suffix -ese is neither racist nor insulting. But it *has* > >become productive in English to indicate with mild humor something > >that is incomprehensible, based on its presence in "Chinese," > >"Japanese." There are many examples, but the only one that comes to > >mind now is "Stengelese." > > I think of "bureaucratese" first. "X-ese" as a noun here = "language of X". > > The suffix "-ese" is apparently the English reflex of Latin genitive ending > "-ensis", which is still used as a sort of default genitive in modern > Latin. So for example the organism Nocardia beijingensis is the Nocardia > "of Beijing", while Legionella pittsburghensis refers to the Legionella "of > Pittsburgh", while Pseudomonas wisconsinensis is named after Wisconsin, > etc. Similarly a University of Wisconsin seal might read "Universitatis > Wisconsinensis Sigillum" = "Seal of the University of Wisconsin". So the > long-term etymology does not support the "derogatory" thesis. > > Why is "-ese" more frequent in application to East Asia? There are > "Portuguese", "Viennese", "Faroese", etc., in Europe, but there are many > more "-eses" in Asia ("Shanghainese", "Pekinese", "Siamese", "Sundanese", > "Singhalese", etc., etc.): is it because East Asians (along with persons > from Vienna or the Faroes perhaps?) are/were despised? I would say no, it > is because places far from the Roman Empire had no names in Latin and > therefore no natural genitive endings, so they tend to take the 'default' > ending "-ensis", thus "-ese" (with some obvious exceptions where a name > looks like it could conform to another Latin paradigm, e.g., > "Korea"/"Korean"). Scotland was known to Rome, so a bacterium named after > Scotland for example is Actinobacillus scotiae (NOT "scotlandensis" or > whatever) using the established genitive ending for Scotia = Scotland. > Neither Japan nor Wisconsin (nor Congo) was known to Rome, so their names > lack declensions from classical Latin. [No doubt my perception is absurdly > oversimplified, and perhaps I'm completely in error on some of my examples. > The place-names in many cases actually came through French and other > Romance languages, I believe.] > > -- Doug Wilson A very enjoyable discussion of the suffix. I'm reminded of "Goan/Goanese" of which the -ese variant is considered insulting, or so I have heard. T.M.P. (www.paikeday.net) > From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Apr 7 14:38:12 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:38:12 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shapiro" To: Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 10:25 PM Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" > I have been having an argument with an acquaintance about which English > word has the greatest number of meanings. I have been giving the standard > OED answer of "set," but he insists it's "run" because in his dictionary, > the American Heritage, "run" has more senses. > > In formulating my latest answer to him, it would help me to understand why > the American Heritage comes out contrary to OED on this point. Would > people interpret this as meaning that "run" is more polysemous in American > English than it is in British English, or vice-versa with "set"? Or is > the explanation that "set" has more obscure senses than "run" does, and > that "set" therefore pulls ahead of "run" when a larger dictionary with > more obscure senses is consulted? Or is there some other explanation? > > Fred Shapiro Another explanation may be what I call "atomization of meaning" at the discretion of each lexicographer. A comparative study of the numbered meanings might substantiate this. T. M. Paikeday www.paikeday.net P.S. I just read F.A's detailed discussion of this and I agree with most of what Frank has to say. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS > Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Mon Apr 7 14:44:54 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:44:54 -0700 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: I would be curious to know how 'get' stacks up against 'run' and 'set.' A few years ago I saw a list of German words that can be used to translate 'get.' It was about 30 words. Does this have any relevence to the number of senses in English? Fritz >>> fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU 04/06/03 07:25PM >>> I have been having an argument with an acquaintance about which English word has the greatest number of meanings. I have been giving the standard OED answer of "set," but he insists it's "run" because in his dictionary, the American Heritage, "run" has more senses. In formulating my latest answer to him, it would help me to understand why the American Heritage comes out contrary to OED on this point. Would people interpret this as meaning that "run" is more polysemous in American English than it is in British English, or vice-versa with "set"? Or is the explanation that "set" has more obscure senses than "run" does, and that "set" therefore pulls ahead of "run" when a larger dictionary with more obscure senses is consulted? Or is there some other explanation? Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Mon Apr 7 15:40:46 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 08:40:46 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030406123818.00a98008@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided "Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. Peter Mc. --On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan wrote: > Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From douglas at NB.NET Mon Apr 7 16:08:17 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:08:17 -0400 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I've been asked whether the ancient Romans trilled the sound /r/. It seems to be a popular notion that they did. This is what I was taught in my ('classical', not ecclesiastical) Latin course, back in the day ... although pronunciation with English-type "r" was usual (and tolerated) in practice. Several Web sites assert this ('alveolar trill', I think they say usually ... generally likened to the "r" ("rr") in Spanish or to the "r" in Italian). I can't find any reasoning supporting the assertion, in a brief glance at immediately available general reference books and Web sites: is it just a guess based on the later Romance languages? -- Doug Wilson From e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 7 16:31:13 2003 From: e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET (Enid Pearsons) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:31:13 -0400 Subject: "Run" vs. "Set" Message-ID: For those who don't have the Random House Unabridged, set has 119 numbered definitions; take has 126; run has 179. This count does not include various lettered subdefinitions. As I recall, when Random House first moved to a computerized conversion/typesetting system, run broke the initial conversion, stopping everything in its tracks, and had to be split before the magic could continue. This did not happen with any other word. Enid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Abate" To: Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 2:39 AM Subject: Re: "Run" vs. "Set" > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Frank Abate > Subject: Re: "Run" vs. "Set" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > In reply to Fred S's query, I would not recommend counting dictionary senses as an absolute way to determine relative polysemy. Reasons: > > 1. Different lexos and dict houses will handle the same word differently, as regards number of senses, and other things. Some lexos are "lumpers"; some are "splitters". > > 2. What is polysemy really? I think one might get a better sense for this by looking at the studies done in linguistics. Dictionaries do mirror linguistic reality, but they only mirror it. And some of those mirrors have not been cleaned recently, and have scratches and cracks in them. > > 3. What to count? In some houses (like Merriam), the verb and noun senses of a word will be in two different entries. Watch for that, too. Also, does one count the phrasal verbs that are built on words like _run_ and _set_, or not? > > I WOULD say that one can get some clue by comparing entries within a single dictionary. Look, say, at the Random House Unabridged for the American side, and at Shorter Oxford for the British. These are both fairly recently edited and are "unabridged" -- unlike big OED, many parts of which date back to Murray's time, or the Amer Heritage, which is not unabridged. > > The words _run_ and _set_ are good candidates, but I would also take a look at _take_. > > Frank Abate > > Frank Abate > DRS > (860) 349-5400 > abatefr at earthlink.net > From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Apr 7 16:44:07 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:44:07 -0700 Subject: OT: Was Latin /r/ trilled? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030407115610.04bd2220@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: >From Roland G. Kent's Sounds of Latin: a descriptive and historical phonology (1932): "no.59 R was a voiced liquid, trilled with the tip of the tongue behind the teeth while the sides of the tongue touched the palate. The roughness of the sound of r accounts for the avoidance of two successive r's by dissimilative change, as in late 'pelegrinus' (Fr. pelerin, pilgrim) for peregrinus, and by dissimilative loss, as in late "propietas" for "proprietas". R befor consonants and final was weak, perhaps as in English, and was occasionally omitted in writing." allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Douglas G. Wilson wrote: > >I've been asked whether the ancient Romans trilled the sound /r/. > > It seems to be a popular notion that they did. This is what I was taught in > my ('classical', not ecclesiastical) Latin course, back in the day ... > although pronunciation with English-type "r" was usual (and tolerated) in > practice. Several Web sites assert this ('alveolar trill', I think they say > usually ... generally likened to the "r" ("rr") in Spanish or to the "r" in > Italian). > > I can't find any reasoning supporting the assertion, in a brief glance at > immediately available general reference books and Web sites: is it just a > guess based on the later Romance languages? > > -- Doug Wilson > From jester at PANIX.COM Mon Apr 7 18:47:21 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:47:21 -0400 Subject: "deceptively" ? Message-ID: I was recently asked about the following situation: There is a task that looks very difficult to do, but is in fact very simple. Should this be described as "deceptively simple" or "deceptively difficult"? This puzzled me, so I've been looking through loads of evidence, collected and corpus-based (I haven't found anything useful in usage guides), and it seems that "deceptively simple/easy" and "deceptively difficult" both mean 'difficult, though appearing to be simple'. There doesn't seem to be a way, at least according to the evidence, of saying "easy, though appearing to be difficult." Thoughts? Larry, this seems up your alley. Jesse Sheidlower OED From mam at THEWORLD.COM Mon Apr 7 19:16:25 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:16:25 -0400 Subject: "deceptively" ? In-Reply-To: <20030407184721.GA14522@panix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Jesse Sheidlower wrote: #I was recently asked about the following situation: There is a task #that looks very difficult to do, but is in fact very simple. Should #this be described as "deceptively simple" or "deceptively difficult"? # #This puzzled me, so I've been looking through loads of #evidence, collected and corpus-based (I haven't found #anything useful in usage guides), and it seems that #"deceptively simple/easy" and "deceptively difficult" both #mean 'difficult, though appearing to be simple'. Have you found any patterns of information in distinctions beyond the choice of adjective? E.g., 1. The task is deceptively easy. 2. The task seems deceptively easy. 3. The instructions are deceptively simple. Absent other indications, I would assign part of the indication of "deceptiveness" to "seems" in (2) and to "instructions", as distinguished from the task itself, in (3). In both cases I would infer that the task is harder than it seems, and in (3) that the instructions conceal the difficulty of the task. -- Mark A. Mandel From mam at THEWORLD.COM Mon Apr 7 19:29:37 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:29:37 -0400 Subject: the language-sensitive centimeter Message-ID: The following text is copied from an item on sale at CVS (a chain drugstore): 18" FOLDING BARBECUE GRILL 254 square inches of cooking surface ASADOR DE 46 CM Superficie de coccio'n de 1638 cm^2 BARBECUE SUR PIED DE 45 CM Surface de cuisson de 1587.5 cm^2 Apparently the Spanish centimeter is the standard 2.54 per inch, but the French centimeter runs exactly 2.5 per inch. Spanish: sqrt(1638/254) = 2.5394+ 46/18 = 2.55+ French: sqrt(1587.5/254) = 2.5 45/18 = 2.5 -- Mark A. Mandel From Ittaob at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 20:22:28 2003 From: Ittaob at AOL.COM (Steve Boatti) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:22:28 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20the=20language-sensitive=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?centimeter?= Message-ID: It wouldn't surprise me if the discrepancy is due to differing government regulations on how to measure the "cooking surface." Steve Boatti sjb72 at columbia.edu From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 7 22:40:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:40:00 EDT Subject: "Windy City" in forthcoming ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY Message-ID: Gerald Cohen wrote the "Big Apple" entry for the ENYCLOPEDIA OF NEW YORK CITY (1995), by the New-York Historical Society. The late Irving Lewis Allen wrote the "Gotham" entry. The long-delayed ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY is a project of both the Chicago Historical Society and the Newberry Library. I gave my "Windy City" papers to the CHS seven years ago, and Gerald Cohen had given a COMMENTS ON ETYMOLOGY copy to Newberry. No one contacted me, so I just thought that I'd contact them. It looks like they're going to use my older work, without credit. Barry "Neither rain, nor snow--hey, what's up with the snow?" Popik Subj: Re: Fwd: "Windy City" in ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY Date: 4/7/2003 4:52:56 PM Eastern Standard Time From: knoxd at newberry.org To: Bapopik at aol.com Sent from the Internet (Details) Dear Mr. Popik, Thanks for your interest in the Encyclopedia of Chicago History. We are essentially done with the preparation of the A-Z entries for the Encyclopedia. Our entry entitled "Windy City" was assigned and completed several years ago, and our editors are satisfied with its contents. No one here was aware of your work when the entry was assigned, but had that not been the case, you certainly would have been a likely person to approach. I believe your work may be the basis for a reference in our entry to an early use of the term "Windy City" in 1885. The online discussions that I find to your research cite an 1885 _Cleveland Gazette_ headline. I'm almost reluctant to ask if you have since uncovered anything earlier, because we are far enough into the end stages of preparation that our counterparts at the University of Chicago Press will be ready to give us grief for considering modifications. But if you have earlier citations, we would of course prefer to include to the best information we can. Best wishes in all your researches, Douglas Knox Managing Editor Encyclopedia of Chicago History The Newberry Library 60 West Walton Street Chicago, IL 60610 (312) 255-3642 From gcohen at UMR.EDU Tue Apr 8 00:21:59 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:21:59 -0500 Subject: "Windy City" in forthcoming ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY Message-ID: The Comments on Etymology issue which I gave to the Newberry Library has been superseded by Barry's later work. If Barry would like to prepare a revised treatment--an up-to-date version--I would be honored to have it appear in the next available issue of Comments on Etymology. I would then distribute it at my own cost to the leading historical societies with an interest in Chicago. It looks like the Encyclopedia of Chicago History currently under preparation may be weak in its treatment of "The Windy City." Any treatment which does not reflect Barry's work is ipso facto not up-to-date. But that's water under the bridge. Let's aim for the next major work which will treat Chicago's history, and Barry's (likely) definitive article will be the basis of the treatment in that future book. Gerald Cohen Professor of Foreign Languages (Research specialty: Etymology) University of Missouri-Rolla At 6:40 PM -0400 4/7/03, Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:40:00 EDT >Reply-To: American Dialect Society >Sender: American Dialect Society >From: Bapopik at AOL.COM >Subject: "Windy City" in forthcoming ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY >Comments: cc: ASmith1946 at aol.com, gersh.kuntzman at verizon.net >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > > Gerald Cohen wrote the "Big Apple" entry for the ENYCLOPEDIA OF NEW YORK >CITY (1995), by the New-York Historical Society. The late Irving Lewis Allen >wrote the "Gotham" entry. > The long-delayed ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY is a project of both the >Chicago Historical Society and the Newberry Library. I gave my "Windy City" >papers to the CHS seven years ago, and Gerald Cohen had given a COMMENTS ON >ETYMOLOGY copy to Newberry. No one contacted me, so I just thought that I'd >contact them. > It looks like they're going to use my older work, without credit. > > Barry "Neither rain, nor snow--hey, what's up with the snow?" Popik > >Subj: Re: Fwd: "Windy City" in ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHICAGO HISTORY >Date: 4/7/2003 4:52:56 PM Eastern Standard Time >From: knoxd at newberry.org >To: Bapopik at aol.com >Sent from the Internet (Details) > > > >Dear Mr. Popik, > >Thanks for your interest in the Encyclopedia of Chicago History. We are >essentially done with the preparation of the A-Z entries for the >Encyclopedia. Our entry entitled "Windy City" was assigned and completed >several years ago, and our editors are satisfied with its contents. > >No one here was aware of your work when the entry was assigned, but had >that not been the case, you certainly would have been a likely person to >approach. > >I believe your work may be the basis for a reference in our entry to an >early use of the term "Windy City" in 1885. The online discussions that I >find to your research cite an 1885 _Cleveland Gazette_ headline. I'm >almost reluctant to ask if you have since uncovered anything earlier, >because we are far enough into the end stages of preparation that our >counterparts at the University of Chicago Press will be ready to give us >grief for considering modifications. But if you have earlier citations, we >would of course prefer to include to the best information we can. > >Best wishes in all your researches, > >Douglas Knox >Managing Editor >Encyclopedia of Chicago History >The Newberry Library >60 West Walton Street >Chicago, IL 60610 >(312) 255-3642 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 01:30:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:30:32 -0400 Subject: Luncheon Meat (1895); Garlic Salt (1916); Bridge Rolls (1956) Message-ID: The Word Spy had "turducken" recently. We mentioned it here several times, and it wasn't just me. It was in the NEW YORK TIMES last November. McFedries is the best at what he does, but this is bizarre. --------------------------------------------------------------- LUNCHEON MEAT I had previous cited "luncheon meat" in a 1938 book. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; May 1895; Vol. Vol. XII,, Iss. 0 Advertisement 48 -- No Title; pg. 36, 1 pgs CURTICE LUNCHEON MEATS Chicken, Turkey, Ham, Tongue CURTICE BROTHERS CO., Rochester, N. Y. --------------------------------------------------------------- GARLIC SALT I had posted "celery salt" and might as well do this one. 24 December 1916, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM12: Among the products of the drying chamber now are a garlic salt, a grapefruit salt, and an orange salt, each containing 100 per cent of the taste and food value of the original. --------------------------------------------------------------- BRIDGE ROLLS John Ayto's GOURMET GUIDE TO FOOD AND DRINK mentions that "bridge rolls" were all over England. Perhaps others on the list can comment on that. "Bridge roll" is not in OED and not in any of my food dictionaries. The full text TIMES OF LONDON has it late. 24 December 1956, TIMES OF LONDON, pg. 9, col. C: ...Digestives, bridge rolls and Rich Teas... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 02:36:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:36:30 -0400 Subject: Crisphead Lettuce (1955); Delaware Grape (1857, 1861) Message-ID: CRISPHEAD LETTUCE No OED "crisphead" or "crisp head" entry, although there is a 1966 citation: "Crisphead or iceberg lettuce is the most widely grown type." 4 January 1942, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. D8: The Imperial strains of crisp head lettuce are not as abundant as other lettuces. (JSTOR database) Shattering in Lettuce-Its Inheritance and Biological Significance Thomas W. Whitaker; Gilbert D. McCollum Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club, Vol. 81, No. 2. (Mar. - Apr., 1954), pp. 104-110. Pg. 106: Individuals of the progenies from these plants were used in crosses with two varieties of commercial lettuce, Imperial 615 and White Paris Cos. Imperial 615 is a crisp head type suitable for winter and early spring culture (Bohn and Whitaker 1951). Pg. 110: _Bohn, G. W. & Whitaker, T. W._ 1951. Recently introduced varieties of head lettuce and methods used in their development. U. S. Dept. Agr. Cir. 881. Lettuce Industry of the Salinas Valley Paul F. Griffin; C. Langdon White Scientific Monthly, Vol. 81, No. 2. (Aug., 1955), pp. 77-84. Pg. 84 (NOTES): 1. Throughout the United States there has been a definite shift from the butter-head type of lettuce to the crisp-head type. --------------------------------------------------------------- DELAWARE GRAPE "Delaware grape" is not in OED. It's in FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION and has 153 Google hits. NEW-YORK WEEKLY TIMES.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Apr 24, 1857; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("THE DELAWARE GRAPE" is announced in the contents for the NEW-YORK WEEKLY TIMES of April 25th, but the next hit is not that--ed.) (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Oct 19, 1861, Iss. 0 Article 4 -- No Title; pg. 2, 1 pgs _THE DELAWARE GRAPE._ This variety deserves to be better known than it is among grape-growers. (...) Those we have seen come from the nursery of Mr. Edward Tatnall, near Wilmington, Delaware, where young plants may be obtained. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 03:09:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:24 -0400 Subject: Summer Crookneck Squash (1839, 1857) Message-ID: OED has this under "summer crookneck," with its 1890 citation indicating that there's better: "Summer crooknecks appeared in our garden catalogues in 1828." The first citation here is "winter crook neck," not "summer crookneck." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Maine Farmer and Journal of the Useful Arts (1833-1842), Augusta; Oct 19, 1839; Vol. 7, Iss. 40 Acknowledgements; Anonymous; pg. 313, 1 pgs ("These marrow squashes are goof _inventions_ as Sancho Panza said by sleep. They grow well and ripen perfectly in our climate and are preferred by most people to the old winter crook neck, which is rather precarious in this latitude." NEW - YORK LIVE STOCK MARKET.; Prepared every week, expressly for the NEW-YORK DAILY, SEMI-WEEKLY, and WEEKLY TIMES, by a careful and experienced Reporter. ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 10, 1857; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("Pumpkins are becoming scarce and high, especially the cheese and crookneck varieties.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 03:43:18 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:43:18 -0400 Subject: Crab Boil & Fish Boil & Shrimp Boil (1959) Message-ID: Not one of these "boils" is in the OED. Some Google hits: CRAB BOIL--4,560 FISH BOIL--2,090 SHRIMP BOIL--3,730 Picture of a Good Cook: One Who Anticipates; Photographer Puts Theory to Work On Week-End; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 20, 1961; pg. 30, 1 pgs ("1 tablespoon crab boil (purchased from the grocery spice shelf)") Fine Time For Shrimp; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 6, 1959; pg. SM28, 1 pgs ("Shrimp may be cooked either with or without their shells. However, there is no doubt that the shell contributes a welcome flavor. There is an excellent commercially purchased spice melange that can be used for flavoring shrimp to be simmered. It is packaged as shrimp spice or crab boil and contains several ingredients, such as cassis, not commonly found on the home spice shelf.") (WORLDCAT database) Title: Door County's cooking of fish boil and accompaniments Author: Newkirk, Irene Libraries with Item: "Door County's cooking of ..." WI WINNEFOX LIBR SYST GZK Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Door County's cooking of fish boil and accompaniments / Author(s): Newkirk, Irene. Publication: [S.l. : s.n.], Edition: 2nd ed. Year: 1984 Description: [19] leaves : ill. ; 13 x 20 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery (Fish). Cookery, American -- Wisconsin -- Door County. Note(s): Cover title: Door County fish boil and accompaniments./ Title on prelim. t.p.: Door County cooking fish boil & accompaniments. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 641.692 Other Titles: Door County fish boil and accompaniments.; Door County cooking fish boil & accomopaniments. Responsibility: written & complied by Irene Newkirk ; drawings by Flora M. Langlois. Document Type: Book Entry: 19880610 Update: 19911220 Accession No: OCLC: 18065375 Database: WorldCat Title: Crab boil Author: Graziano, Phil Libraries with Item: "Crab boil" LA SOUTHEASTERN LOUISIANA UNIV LSH LA STATE LIBR OF LOUISIANA LSL Libraries that Own Item: 2 Title: Crab boil Author(s): Graziano, Phil. ; Wallace, L. E. Publication: [Natalbany, La.] :; L.E. Wallace Productions, Year: 1990s Description: 1 videocassette (20 min.) :; sd., col. ;; 1/2 in. Language: English Series: Cooking with Murphy's; Abstract: Chef Phil Graziano of Murphy's Restaurant demonstrates how to boil crabs. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery (Crabs) Crabs. System Info: VHS. Note(s): Title from cassette label./ Participants: Hosted by Phil Graziano. Responsibility: produced by L.E. Wallace. Material Type: Projected image (pgr); Videorecording (vid); VHS tape (vhs) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 20001006 Update: 20010625 Accession No: OCLC: 45131223 Database: WorldCat (PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE) Word Mark CAJUN CRAB BOIL Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: restaurant services. FIRST USE: 19960900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19960900 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75207016 Filing Date December 2, 1996 Owner (APPLICANT) Pearl's Bricktown, Inc. CORPORATION OKLAHOMA 827 N.W. 63rd Street, Suite 102 Oklahoma City OKLAHOMA 73116 Attorney of Record E HARRISON GILBERT III Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date September 26, 1997 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 05:00:04 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:00:04 -0400 Subject: Crab Imperial (1944); Cube Steak (1934) Message-ID: CRAB IMPERIAL Not in OED. They don't take crabs. News of Food; Restaurant Offers Tasty Dishes of Seafood That May Be Ordered for Dining at Home; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1944; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("The King of the Sea, that celebrated fish restaurant at 879 Third Avenue, near Fifty-third Street, started out eight years ago... "_Crab Imperial a Specialty_ "Amon the many specialties, including Florida pompano, and New England lobster, is crab imperial. Lumps of crabmeat are sauted in butter, seasoned with mayonnaise and capers, piled incredibly high in crab shells--three inches deep, by estimate--then thickly topped with crumbs and oven-browned. These cost 90 cents apiece...") --------------------------------------------------------------- CUBE STEAK Also not in OED. Classified Ad 14 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 1, 1934; pg. RE10, 1 pgs ("SPECIALTY SALESMEN...to introduce fully patented genuine 'Cube' Steak machines to markets, restaurants, institutions; commission basis. Write Cube Steak Machine Co., P. O. Box 506, Milford, Conn.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 05:25:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:25:28 -0400 Subject: Grease Mop/Fat Mop & Fat Mat Message-ID: "Grease Mop" and "Fat Mop" are two names for the same thing. Use them on Freedom Fries. These are recent additions to the kitchen--not that the Popik archives has a kitchen. FACTIVA articles are followed by trademarks. DON HANNULA 760 words 7 February 1986 The Seattle Times THIRD A10 English (Copyright 1986) EARLY in my newspaper career, a few of us on The Yakima Morning Herald dared to eat at a hole-in-the-wall restaurant affectionately known as ``Greasy Henry's.''(...) Atop a long grill at Henry's sat one of those cans of melted shortening _ or something like that _ with the wooden handle of a miniature grease mop protruding. With a ceremonial flair that would do an archbishop proud, Henry would anoint the hot grill with a flick of the dripping grease mop. Then he'd toss on a handful of hash browns. The Press-Enterprise 1,173 words 28 November 1997 The Press-Enterprise Riverside, CA ALL ZONES AA01 English (Copyright 1997) (...) Another way to de-fat a broth is to use paper towels as a "fat mop." Lay these on the surface of the soup to absorb the fat. Just be careful if the soup is hot. FOOD 101 Little mop soaks up the grease ROBERT L. WOLKE Special to the Register 325 words 28 May 2000 The Orange County Register MORNING 05 English Copyright (c) 2000 Bell & Howell Information and Learning Company. All rights reserved. Your soup, stock or stew is almost done. You trimmed off most of the fat before adding the meat, but your pot now looks as if the Exxon Valdez had run aground in it. The recipe now says, "skim the fat." All you have to do is grab a spoon and scoop off the top layer without removing any of the underlying liquid, right? Yeah, sure. For one thing, you need a neurosurgeon's steadiness of hand and a scalpel-sharp spoon to control your depth-of-scoop precisely. What do you do? There are several conventional-wisdom methods but I'll let you on to one tool I'll bet you never heard of. It's a mini mop -- yes, a mop -- that magically absorbs fat. You just brush it across the surface of your soup or stew and it will soak up the oil without absorbing the watery liquid. It goes by various unappetizing names, including Fat Mop and Grease Mop, and is available for about $6 at savvy kitchenware stores or by mail from www.happycookers.com. Fat Mop and Fat Mat The Grand Rapids Press 160 words 25 March 2001 The Grand Rapids Press All Editions L1 English (Copyright 2001) Cost: Fat Mop -- $5.95, Fat Mat -- $4.95 Where available: Clever Cook, 6469 28th St. SE, Grand Rapids What they claim to do: They soak up grease like magic from cooked foods and claim to be dishwasher safe. The Fat Mop skims fat from soups, stews and fried foods. The Fat Mat soaks up grease from food such as bacon and French fries, you normally would drain on paper towels. Word Mark FAT MOP Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 021. US 002 013 023 029 030 033 040 050. G & S: absorbent polypropylene material for removing grease from food Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75317778 Filing Date July 1, 1997 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition December 1, 1998 Owner (APPLICANT) AMBEP, INC. CORPORATION BY CHANGE OF NAME DELAWARE 16825 NORTHCHASE DRIVE SUITE 1600 HOUSTON TEXAS 77060 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record J MIKE AMERSON Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "MOP" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date August 24, 2000 Word Mark FAT MAT Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 021. US 002 013 023 029 030 033 040 050. G & S: absorbent polypropylene material for removing grease from food Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75317777 Filing Date July 1, 1997 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition December 1, 1998 Owner (APPLICANT) Oil Mop, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 221 Rue De Jean Lafayette LOUISIANA 70508 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record J MIKE AMERSON Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "MAT" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date August 24, 1999 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 05:53:50 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:53:50 -0400 Subject: Garlic Bread (1939, 1946) Message-ID: OED has 1951. I'll look for "garlic bread" in the Clementine Paddleford columns that I copied from the NEW YORK HERALD-TRIBUNE. She reviewed plenty of Italian restaurants in New York City. Garlic bread has 109,000 Google hits! Garlic bread tastes great and works well on a date with female vampire slayers. FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION (1995, 2001 by Sharon Herbst) _Garlic Bread_ Said to have been invented during the late 1940s boom of Italian-American restaurants, garlic bread consists of Italian or French bread slices, spread on both sides with GARLIC BUTTER and heated in the oven. There are many variations, including bread brushed with olive oil and sprinkled with minced garlic and herbs. It can also be broiled or grilled. News of Food; New Cafe's Food and Its Table Settings Bring Back Memories of Italian Summers; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 3, 1950; pg. 19, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 15, 1949; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 23, 1949; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 17 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 16, 1949; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 28 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 30, 1947; pg. 29, 1 pgs FOOD; Sunday Night Suppers; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1946; pg. 134, 1 pgs ("She (Jeanne Own, secretary of the Wine and Food Society of New York--ed.) also thought some hors d'oeuvres of anchovies and garlic bread might be appealing...") For Gourmets and Others: A Venezuelan Adventure; Introduction of the World's Fair Visitor to Hallacas And Other Dishes, at Once Rich and Strange, From the Tropics; By CHARLOTTE HUGHES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 18, 1939; pg. 49, 1 pgs ("Ingredients for the meat mixture, enough for ten hallacas, are...a garlic bread...") From flanigan at OHIO.EDU Tue Apr 8 14:13:18 2003 From: flanigan at OHIO.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:13:18 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <111927.1049704846@[10.218.201.115]> Message-ID: Unlike the other terms cited, "motherese" isn't pejorative; it's the term child language scholars use for the kind of simplified and affectionate speech that mothers (and others) use with babies. It's also called "baby talk" and, more recently and pc-ishly, "caretaker speech." "Teacherese" wasn't a good cite on my part; "educationese" is better (though "teacher talk" has been used). At 08:40 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided >"Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a >meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries >a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, >educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by >virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay >reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as >probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across >them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard >before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. > >The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that >this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which >simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. > >Peter Mc. > >--On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan > wrote: > >>Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... > > > >**************************************************************************** > Peter A. McGraw > Linfield College * McMinnville, OR > pmcgraw at linfield.edu From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Tue Apr 8 14:54:41 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:54:41 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030408100906.00b16de8@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: Beverly writes, >Unlike the other terms cited, "motherese" isn't pejorative; it's the term >child language scholars use for the kind of simplified and affectionate >speech that mothers (and others) use with babies. It's also called "baby >talk" and, more recently and pc-ishly, "caretaker speech." "Teacherese" >wasn't a good cite on my part; "educationese" is better (though "teacher >talk" has been used). I have the feeling that while not pejorative, "motherese" is somewhat jocularly intended, as if this were a technical register or jargon practiced by mothers, such as "journalese" or the others we've been discussing. "Journalese" is well over a century old-- 1882 Pall Mall G. 6 Apr. 2/1 Translated from 'Journalese' into plain English. [OED] --and I think possibly the model for the others. The OED provides a 1975 first cite for "motherese" has, from the developmental psycholinguist Elissa Newport (who may or may not have coined it) and (attention Jesse et al.!) "bureaucratese" has no listing at all in the OED. Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). [The OED doesn't provide the "Portugueece" option, but I know I can get it.] > >At 08:40 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided >>"Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a >>meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries >>a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, >>educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by >>virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay >>reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as >>probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across >>them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard >>before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. >> >>The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that >>this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which >>simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. >> >>Peter Mc. >> >>--On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan >> wrote: >> >>>Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... >> >> >> >>**************************************************************************** >> Peter A. McGraw >> Linfield College * McMinnville, OR >> pmcgraw at linfield.edu From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Tue Apr 8 14:59:55 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:59:55 -0400 Subject: Soda Straw Message-ID: Early in my career as a bird watcher, I went to a camera store to price telescopes. The large ones were expensive and looked like a pain to carry. I asked the salesman about a small, cheap one, an inch or so in diameter. He wanted to sell me one of the expensive ones, but no doubt truthfully said, well, for one thing, using a small telescope like this one is like looking through a soda straw. This would have been in the early 1980s, or thereabouts. Not realizing at the time that 20 years later philological exactitude would demand a verbatim quotation, I stored away just the image used, not the exact words. In fact, I didn't buy any telescope that day or since. By the way: some of you may recall that Samuel Pepys discontinued his diary after 10 years, in his mid 30s, because he was having problems with his eyes and decided that writing the diary was a source of eye strain that he could eliminate. At one point, he experimented with reading through a tube, I believe lensless. I recall reading a modern writer on his diary saying that given the modern diagnosis of his condition, if he had flatted the tube somewhat it would have helped his problem. Upon demand I will check William Matthews' edition of the diary -- which is in my bedroom -- to see if I can locate this passage and what Matthews says about it. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Shapiro Date: Friday, April 4, 2003 9:05 pm Subject: Re: Soda Straw > On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: > > > What I would like to find is the origin of it's use meaning > "narrow" as in > > the phrases, "soda straw snapshot", "soda straw effect" > (earliest I've > > found Dow Jones 1998), and "soda straw view." > > Nexis has the following from Defense Daily, Nov. 3, 1997: > > Using its high resolution video camera, the Lockheed Martin > [LMT] P-3 was to provide a "soda straw view" of moving targets and > identify those targets as friend or foe, said Lt. Cmdr. David Acton, > the intelligence officer for Amphibious Squadron 11. > > Fred Shapiro > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF > QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale > University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu > http://quotationdictionary.com------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------- > From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 8 15:21:20 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:21:20 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." Peter Mc. --On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 10:54 AM -0400 Laurence Horn wrote: > Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact > that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, > Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless > (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From flanigan at OHIO.EDU Tue Apr 8 16:06:46 2003 From: flanigan at OHIO.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:06:46 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree, Larry, and Newport is the first one I've seen use "motherese" too. I think it was coined (by whoever) to avoid the ambiguity of "baby talk"--the talk of mothers or the talk of babies? In fact, a well-known video on child language is titled "Baby Talk," suggesting the latter interpretation. But many, if not most, cultures have a "baby talk" register used by adults to infants, so an unambiguous term was needed. I don't think it was meant to be jocular, but it was also not intended to be a technical term but rather a loose configuration of simplified sounds, words, and grammar (not to be confused with UNgrammatical speech though). At 10:54 AM 4/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Beverly writes, > >>Unlike the other terms cited, "motherese" isn't pejorative; it's the term >>child language scholars use for the kind of simplified and affectionate >>speech that mothers (and others) use with babies. It's also called "baby >>talk" and, more recently and pc-ishly, "caretaker speech." "Teacherese" >>wasn't a good cite on my part; "educationese" is better (though "teacher >>talk" has been used). > > >I have the feeling that while not pejorative, "motherese" is somewhat >jocularly intended, as if this were a technical register or jargon >practiced by mothers, such as "journalese" or the others we've been >discussing. "Journalese" is well over a century old-- > >1882 Pall Mall G. 6 Apr. 2/1 Translated from 'Journalese' into plain >English. [OED] > >--and I think possibly the model for the others. The OED provides a >1975 first cite for "motherese" has, from the developmental >psycholinguist Elissa Newport (who may or may not have coined it) and >(attention Jesse et al.!) "bureaucratese" has no listing at all in >the OED. > >Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact >that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, >Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless >(rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). >[The OED doesn't provide the "Portugueece" option, but I know I can get it.] > >> >>At 08:40 AM 4/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>>Beverly's examples touch on the grain of truth behind the misguided >>>"Sinaian's" rant. This suffix has become productively extended from a >>>meaning "language of" to a meaning "jargon of." As such it usually carries >>>a pejorative connotation of "bad style." Thus legalese, bureaucratese, >>>educationese indicate styles of written English prose that is turgid by >>>virtue of long, convoluted sentences and technical terms that the lay >>>reader finds incomprehensible. I interpret medicalese and teacherese as >>>probably having similar connotations, even though I've never run across >>>them before. I'm not sure about motherese, which I have also not heard >>>before, though it doesn't seem to fit the mold. >>> >>>The "Sinaian's" fallacy apparently lies in an assumption on his part that >>>this extended use of -ese has contaminated the basic, neutral use which >>>simply identifies the language of a country or ethnic group. >>> >>>Peter Mc. >>> >>>--On Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:38 PM -0400 Beverly Flanigan >>> wrote: >>> >>>>Legalese, medicalese, teacherese, motherese .... >>> >>> >>> >>>**************************************************************************** >>> Peter A. McGraw >>> Linfield College * McMinnville, OR >>> pmcgraw at linfield.edu From e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 8 17:40:13 2003 From: e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET (Enid Pearsons) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:40:13 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Affectation? Puh-leeze (or Police?) Both voiced and voiceless pronunciations for -ese have been considered normal variants for Chinese, Japanese, etc., by American dictionaries since at least the _Century Dictionary & Cyclopedia_ (1889). You can find them in current versions of RHD, AHD, MW3, NOAD, and WNW. Granted, this is not so in the few British dictionaries I've checked, old and new, which show only voiced. Enid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. McGraw" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "Peter A. McGraw" > Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always > strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? > I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard > "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." > > Peter Mc. > > --On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 10:54 AM -0400 Laurence Horn > wrote: > > > Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would bring up the fact > > that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the others (Chinese, > > Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally voiceless > > (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). > > > > **************************************************************************** > Peter A. McGraw > Linfield College * McMinnville, OR > pmcgraw at linfield.edu > From RonButters at AOL.COM Tue Apr 8 19:02:30 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:02:30 EDT Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Did anyone mention the fact that Milton used the term "Piemontese" in a sonnet (1655) that decries the massacre of some Italian protestants by "bloody Piemontese, that roll'd / Mother with infant down the rocks." Clearly, Milton didn't think much of these folks whom he -esed. Don't know, though, if he'd have written "Piemonters" if he'd liked them. From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Tue Apr 8 19:09:51 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:09:51 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Isn't "piemontese" just taken straight from the Italian? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 3:02 PM Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: RonButters at AOL.COM > Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > Did anyone mention the fact that Milton used the term "Piemontese" in a > sonnet (1655) that decries the massacre of some Italian protestants by > "bloody Piemontese, that roll'd / Mother with infant down the rocks." > > Clearly, Milton didn't think much of these folks whom he -esed. Don't know, > though, if he'd have written "Piemonters" if he'd liked them. > From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Tue Apr 8 23:25:41 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:25:41 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Peter: > On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always > strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? > I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard > "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was *very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. Anne G From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 8 23:25:05 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:25:05 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <011601c2fe26$2cb61ce0$d6514843@annehpbrww9plk> Message-ID: A colleague of mine in Linguistics here at Ball State regularly says "Chineece" and "Japaneece". I've always attributed it to her Connecticut background, although what that would have to do with it I can't imagine. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Anne Gilbert Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 6:26 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Peter: > On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always > strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, maybe?? > I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never heard > "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was *very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. Anne G From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 8 23:47:40 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:47:40 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <011601c2fe26$2cb61ce0$d6514843@annehpbrww9plk> Message-ID: --On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 4:25 PM -0700 Anne Gilbert wrote: > Peter: > >> On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always >> strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, >> maybe?? I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never >> heard "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." > > Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm > curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was > *very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from > somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. > Anne G Y'know, I'm not sure where all I've heard it. I've had it vaguely associated in my mind with New York speech, but in recent years I've heard it often enough (though still infrequently enough that I notice) here in the Northwest as well, and from people who otherwise didn't sound like New Yorkers. I haven't had the opportunity to find out if those I've heard here came from elsewhere, and if so, where. I'm not sure how I connected it with New York--it's not one of the features that comes immediately to mind when I "play back" New York speech to myself. Maybe some New Yorkers will confirm or deny that it's common there. Peter Mc. **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Wed Apr 9 00:33:18 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:33:18 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Peter: > Y'know, I'm not sure where all I've heard it. I've had it vaguely > associated in my mind with New York speech, but in recent years I've heard > it often enough (though still infrequently enough that I notice) here in > the Northwest as well, and from people who otherwise didn't sound like New > Yorkers. I haven't had the opportunity to find out if those I've heard > here came from elsewhere, and if so, where. I'm not sure how I connected > it with New York--it's not one of the features that comes immediately to > mind when I "play back" New York speech to myself. Maybe some New Yorkers > will confirm or deny that it's common there. Interesting. My father was born in Missouri, but spent most of life in and around the Pacific Northwest. However, he went to school "back East", at a time when this part of the country was still more or less considered "the Wild West", and people from this part of the country were considered vaguely "uncouth". I suspect he picked up "eece" at college, just as he picked up "eyther" and "nyether"(and my mother did too, coming from a similar background and ending up at an East Coast women's college), because he thought it souinded more "refined". Otherwise, he sounded pretty "Pacific Northwest-y" to me. Anne G From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 01:03:08 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:03:08 EDT Subject: Grease Mop/Fat Mop & Fat Mat Message-ID: In a message dated 4/8/03 1:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > These are recent additions to the kitchen--not that the Popik archives has a > kitchen. You have a talking dining room table yet no kitchen? I can just imagine what that dining room table will have to say. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 01:17:35 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:17:35 EDT Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: In a message dated 4/8/03 1:41:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, e.pearsons at EARTHLINK.NET writes: > Both voiced and voiceless > pronunciations for -ese have been considered normal variants for Chinese, > Japanese, etc., by American dictionaries since at least the _Century > Dictionary & Cyclopedia_ (1889). A. K. McRae, Jr _Worcester's Comprehensive Dictionary, Revised Edition_ Philadelphia: Lippincott, copyright dates of 1860 ,1871, 1884, 1888, 1907 (which I picked up in a used-book store) has "Chinese" and "Japanese" with /z/ rather than /s/. Oddly "Portuguese" is not in the dictionary, nor are "legalese" or "bureaucratese". - Jim Landau From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 9 01:45:27 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:45:27 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Born and raised in New York. And I say only "Chineece," "Japaneece". Never even thought twice about this until the ads-l discussion. Gerald Cohen >At 4:47 PM -0700 4/8/03, Peter A. McGraw wrote: >--On Tuesday, April 8, 2003 4:25 PM -0700 Anne Gilbert > wrote: > >>Peter: >> >>>On the contrary, I hear "Chineece" and "Japaneece" a lot! It always >>>strikes me as an affectation of some sort--spelling pronunciation, >>>maybe?? I don't remember hearing "Portugueece." And I'm sure I've never >>>heard "journaleece" or "bureaucrateece." >> >>Where and in what context have you heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece"? I'm >>curious, because the only person I ever heard talking this way(and it was >>*very* consistent)was my father. And I suspect he "picked it up" from >>somewhere and "adopted" it for reasons of his own. >>Anne G > >Y'know, I'm not sure where all I've heard it. I've had it vaguely >associated in my mind with New York speech, but in recent years I've heard >it often enough (though still infrequently enough that I notice) here in >the Northwest as well, and from people who otherwise didn't sound like New >Yorkers. I haven't had the opportunity to find out if those I've heard >here came from elsewhere, and if so, where. I'm not sure how I connected >it with New York--it's not one of the features that comes immediately to >mind when I "play back" New York speech to myself. Maybe some New Yorkers >will confirm or deny that it's common there. > >Peter Mc. From douglas at NB.NET Wed Apr 9 02:21:25 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:21:25 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Born and raised in New York. And I say only "Chineece," "Japaneece". >Never even thought twice about this until the ads-l discussion. I never thought about it either: I would say only "-eze" in these words. OED likes my /z/; my other dictionaries seem to allow both /s/ and /z/. Now that I think of it I have heard "Portuguese" with /s/, and I suppose I must have heard "Chinese" so too but I didn't notice it. Note the old-fashioned "Chinee"/"Portuguee" = "Chinese person"/"Portuguese person", 'erroneous' back-formations from the plurals "Chinese" = "Chinees", "Portuguese" = "Portuguees" (presumably with /z/). -- Doug Wilson From dwhause at JOBE.NET Wed Apr 9 02:34:13 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:34:13 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Midwest (Illinois) out of rural Pennsylvania parents, Chinese and Japanese have the /z/ while Portugese has the /s/. Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas G. Wilson" I never thought about it either: I would say only "-eze" in these words. OED likes my /z/; my other dictionaries seem to allow both /s/ and /z/. Now that I think of it I have heard "Portuguese" with /s/, and I suppose I must have heard "Chinese" so too but I didn't notice it. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 08:00:08 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 04:00:08 EDT Subject: Crab Louis (SF Poodle Dog?); Shell Shock & Awe Message-ID: SHELL SHOCK & AWE & MISC. Some notes between days of parking tickets. SHELL SHOCK & AWE--This week's VILLAGE VOICE (www.villagevoice.com) has a cover story on "shell shock and awe" that you might want to read. That article and the issue itself have the usual Bush=Hitler bashing that make it almost unreadable. LOATHSOME NEW YORKERS--This week's NEW YORK PRESS (www.nypress.com) has a letter to the editor that comments that William Safire neither lives nor works in New York City (responding to his placement in the "Fifty Most Loathsome New Yorkers" article). Plus, in a NEW YORK PRESS "Best of" issue, Safire was voted Best New York Times Columnist....You can say this much about the PRESS and the VOICE--they're free. GARLIC BREAD--I should have mentioned that I have a 1935 "garlic bread" and more garlic in the ADS-L archives. AOL MESSAGES--I just got three--one "FROM A SKINNY PERSON TO A FAT PERSON" and two annoying messages on how to block annoying messages. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- CRAB LOUIS I requested "turkey," "cioppino," and "crab Louis" from the Peter Tamony archives. The "cioppino" papers were voluminous, cost over $20, and added nothing about its origin. See the ADS-L archives for letters to Clementine Paddleford about "crab Louis," asserting a Seattle origin...The classic French restaurant "Poodle Dog" existed in San Francisco from 1850-1922, killed by Prohibition. There's a lack of good Google info on Poodle Dog chef Louis Coutard. I'll look him up in my databases (American Periodical Series, New York Times). 12 June 1952, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE: One source says that it is a Washington State specialty. Helen Evans Brown, in her excellent cookbook, "West Coast Cookery," writes that Crab Louis was served in Solari's, a San Francisco restaurant, in 1914. (John Mariani's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK mentions Solari's and the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco, but not the Poodle Dog--ed.) 29 June 1954, SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER, pg. 19, cols. 1-2, Herb Caen: ...Louis Coutard, the chef at the old Old Poodle Dog, concocted the delicacy that still bears his name--Crab Louis. SAN FRANCISCO--CITY ON GOLDEN HILLS (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1967) by Herb Caen and Don Kingman: Pg. 78: Louis Coutard, the chef at the old Poodle Dog, proudly concocting the delicacy that still bears his name--crab Louis. 25 September 1977, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, Herb Caen: Major minor mystery: Crab Louis, the immortal invention of Chef Louis Coutard at the very old Old Poodle Dog, is known as Crab Coutard in London and "Pardonnez-moi?" in Paris. 30 July 1978, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, Herb Caen: Louis Coutard, the old-time Poodle Dog chef who invented Crab Louis, must whirl like a dervish every time a person orders his dish and the waiter or waitress asks, "What kind of dressing?" It's the dressing, a variation on Thousand Island, that makes the salad a Looey. From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Apr 9 08:53:54 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:53:54 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Born and raised in New York. And I say only "Chineece," "Japaneece". >Never even thought twice about this until the ads-l discussion. As opposed to Gerald, I was also born and raised in NY and only say Chineze and Japaneze, etc. Rima From kretzsch at ARCHES.UGA.EDU Wed Apr 9 13:26:10 2003 From: kretzsch at ARCHES.UGA.EDU (Bill Kretzschmar) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:26:10 -0400 Subject: ACH/ALLC 2003 Early Registration Deadline Extended Message-ID: The deadline for early registration for ACH/ALLC 2003 has been extended to April 15. All those who are thinking of coming to Athens for the meeting should consider signing up now, before the rates change. April 15 is also the target date for registration for training workshops at the conference. See the conference web site for full registration details (including the cancellation policy), the full conference and workshop program, and online registration and lodging reservations. Bill Kretzschmar Professor of English and Linguistics Dept. of English Phone: 706-542-2246 University of Georgia Fax: 706-583-0027 Athens, GA 30602-6205 Atlas Web Site: us.english.uga.edu From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 9 16:57:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:57:38 EDT Subject: "Mevushal" wine Message-ID: "Mevushal" is not in the revised OED. From the NEW YORK SUN, 9 April 2003, "Beyond Manischewitz: From Sauvignon Blanc to Bordeaux, Kosher Wines forthe Passover Table," pg. 18, col. 2: There are two types of kosher wine--_mevushal_, which is pasteurized (and can be handled by the general public and remain kosher), and non-mevushal. Traditionally, mevushal wines were boiled for purification. About 20 years ago, Peter Stern, a winemaker at Baron Herzog Wine Cellars, developed "flash pasteurization" at the University (Col. 3--ed.) of California at Davis. This is from Google Groups: From: Gillian (Gillian137 at comcast.not) Subject: Re: Kosher salt and kosher wine View: Complete Thread (38 articles) Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking Date: 2003-02-10 20:17:11 PST PENMART01 wrote:> >> P Haine writes:> >>>My understanding about kosher wine is that the grapes must be picked by> >>>observant Jews, > > > This is patently false. > >>>and the wine processed under rabbinical supervision. > >> This is true. > >Wine that is Kosher for Passover cannot be handled by non-Jews > Idiot... whaddayou, some fucking card carrying muslim towelheaded shit> stirrer... drop dead motherfucker!Calm down, calm down.There are two types of kosher wine--non-mevushal, your basic kosherwine, and mevushal, fit for the most orthodox wine lover.Non-mevushal wines must be produced, handled and even served by SabbathObservant Jews in order to be kosher. Mevushal wines go through an additional step, flash pasteurization, in which the wines are subjectedto heat during the winemaking process but are not boiled, contrary to popular belief. This process originated from ancient times when wine wasonce used by pagans for idolatrous worship. By pasteurizing the wines,they were considered unfit for pagan worship and should satisfy the mostorthodox Jew. As a result, mevushal wines may be handled by non-Jews andremain kosher. The back label should indicate whether the wine is mevushal or not and that it is certified "Kosher for Passover." Gillian From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 9 18:11:04 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:11:04 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Neurotic" In-Reply-To: <7919011.1049708376371.JavaMail.nobody@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Here is an antedating of the modern sense of the word "neurotic": neurotic, adj. (OED, 2., 1873) 1866 Anne Brewster _St. Martin's Summer_ 95 The climate, from its lively action on the skin, and the variety of impressions it makes on the body and mind, is captially suited for alleviating the suffering arising from all sorts of melancholy, and every kind of neurotic intermittent produced by mental causes. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 9 18:36:32 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:36:32 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Billionaire" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: billionaire (OED 1861) 1855 Fred Folio _Lucy Boston_ 305 My offspring, so nobly descended, so exquisitely beautiful and accomplished, shall never so tarnish their ancestral escutcheon as to become the 'ladies' of any thing less than billionaires. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edkeer at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 9 20:39:29 2003 From: edkeer at YAHOO.COM (Ed Keer) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:39:29 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Larry, who's been wondering if anyone else would > bring up the fact > that the suffix in "Portuguese" differs from the > others (Chinese, > Japanese, motherese, journalese) in being optionally > voiceless > (rhyming with "geese" rather than "please"). > [The OED doesn't provide the "Portugueece" option, > but I know I can get it.] > I've heard some people use the voiceless "ese" in at least Japanese, and perhaps some others. Ed __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From gcohen at UMR.EDU Thu Apr 10 01:32:45 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 20:32:45 -0500 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: I've received the following request for information: How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are washed)? A lady had been sharing a room in the local hospital (Rolla, Missouri), and her roommate (from the Ozarks) several times told her husband where to find a certain object "It's near the zink." The lady who heard this in the hospital says she's also heard /zink/ for "sink" from other people in the Ozarks. Gerald Cohen From self at TOWSE.COM Thu Apr 10 01:36:26 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Grabbing eyeballs Message-ID: I *know* what "eyeballs" are due to my misspent time. Headline in Times of India is "War on TV grabs eyeballs and revenues" Anyone have an idea when "grabbing eyeballs" came into use as a synonym for attracting viewers (in a TV sense) or users (in a Web sense). I've heard it often since the hot-hot dot-com days from marketing folks who'd talk about needing to grab eyeballs. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From nee1 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Apr 10 03:21:32 2003 From: nee1 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Barbara Need) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:21:32 -0500 Subject: great-cousin Message-ID: I was reading a missed edition of the Tribune from February and there was a picture of a young man holding a small infant and it said, infant's name, held by his 17-year-old great-cousin. There was no further information. Can any one tell me what this might mean? Barbara From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 03:45:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:45:15 -0400 Subject: Cocktail Sauce (1900,1902,1903); Dungeness Crab (1909) Message-ID: COCKTAIL SAUCE OED has only one 1960 citation for "cocktail sauce." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Dec 15, 1900; Vol. Vol. LXXXIII., Iss. 0 Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 380, 3 pgs Pg. 382: LABELS..."Demonets's Oyster Cocktail Sauce," for a sauce, T. A. Demonet. 2 January 1902, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 10 ad: _Oyster Cocktail Sauce_, Snider's latest and best production...24c. a pint. Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 4, 1903; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("OYSTER COCKTAIL SAUCE--Sneider's; a spicy condiment for all kinds of cold meats, oysters and clams; 4 pt. bottles, 95c per bottle.") --------------------------------------------------------------- DUNGENESS CRAB Merriam-Webster gives 1925 for "Dungeness crab." OED, as usual, is not to crabby and doesn't have an entry. This is from HARPER'S WEEKLY, 14 August 1909. Search the Full-Text of Harper's Weekly, 1857-1912 09-08-14 Page 24 . . . , finer if possible, than their cousins of the Atlantic Banks, and the transplanted Yankees, who make up a large part of the Washington population, have snapped them up at a price that would have abashed Lucullus. When to the Dungeness crab, which covers a plat- ter, the many delicious fishes of California, the almost fabulous Rock oysters of Yaquina, and the spicy Columbia River crawfish which is first and noblest cousin to him o . . . From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 10 03:46:45 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:46:45 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are >washed)? I don't recall ever hearing it myself. Quick Web search indicates that the pronunciation "zinc" for "sink" is considered by some to be a shibboleth of the Baltimore region, or the MD/DE/VA region. I find at a glance two instances of "sink" actually written "zinc", one apparently from a Nebraskan in the 1940's, the other from Illinois in the 1870's. Possibilities would include pronunciation from German or perhaps from some British dialect (?). However, if the /s/>/z/ is restricted to this single word, I would speculate that the word might be in fact basically "zinc", either because the word "sink" was taken to be an abbreviation of "zinc basin" or "zincked tub" or something like that, or because "zinc sink" was consciously contracted: back in the day, a zinc/zincked (i.e., galvanized) sink was a conventional household/kitchen item, I believe. -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 04:04:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:04:06 -0400 Subject: Garlic Butter (1921, 1940, 1942) Message-ID: OED has "garlic butter" from 1942. This is often used on garlic bread. From the Outdoor Grill; By Jean Freeman; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 28, 1942; pg. SM21, 1 pgs VICTUALS AND VITAMINS; By KILEY TAYLOR; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 1, 1940; pg. SM7, 1 pgs ("...spread with garlic butter,...") BUTTER DUE TO GO LOWER.; Output Far Ahead of Market Receipts, Government Reports.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 2, 1921; pg. 19, 1 pgs ("Garlic butter sells at buyers' price and is hard to move.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 04:53:57 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:53:57 -0400 Subject: Clam Knife (1889); Electric Toaster (1909,1910,1912) Message-ID: CLAM KNIFE Not in OED. Coney Island was more famous for its clams than its hot dogs, but surprisingly, "clam knife" is not in the BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Dec 1889; Vol. Vol. III,, Iss. 0 The Cautious Calm; --New York Evening Sun ; pg. 490, 2 pgs. Pg. 491: "There is probably no article of Nature's food products so little understood as the clam," continued the philosopher, as he deftly inserted a clam knife between the bony lips of a Little neck and laid one of the shells with its palpitating contents. --------------------------------------------------------------- ELECTRIC TOASTER OED has 1913 for "electric toaster" and "toaster." Those cites are now toast. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) McClure's Magazine (1893-1926), New York; May 1912; Vol. VOL. XXXIX, Iss. 0 Advertisement 158 -- No Title; pg. 0_095, 1 pgs ("_Western Electric_...Electric Toasters...Electric Chafing Dishes.") McClure's Magazine (1893-1926), New York; Jan 1, 1909, Iss. 0 Advertisement 580 -- No Title; pg. 0_203, 1 pgs ("EVENINGS when you entertain you will enjoy serving your guests from an electric chafing dish. Cooking the rare-bit without fire is a novelty in itself and you can remove the dish and use the stove for an electric toaster also. ... Simplex Electric Heating Co., Cambridge, Mass.") Display Ad 10 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 22, 1910; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("The Electric Toaster gives you the right kind--always. ... The New York Edison Company." From sussex at UQ.EDU.AU Thu Apr 10 07:07:51 2003 From: sussex at UQ.EDU.AU (Prof. R. Sussex) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:07:51 +1000 Subject: "ese" suffix In-Reply-To: <200304100402.h3A42cdx013693@mailhub2.uq.edu.au> Message-ID: I have been wondering from afar if there is a tendency for final devoicing of voiced obstruents in American English - or at least of final -s. Certainly plurals and genitives seem to do this in some cases with some speakers: so McDonald's is sometimes /-ts/, with retrogressive assimilation of (de-)voicing. It may be morphologically conditioned: I have heard Chinese as /-s/, but not cheese as /-s/. Roly Sussex -- Roly Sussex Professor of Applied Language Studies Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies The University of Queensland Brisbane Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 Email: sussex at uq.edu.au Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html School's website: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ Applied linguistics website: http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ Language Talkback ABC radio: Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ ********************************************************** From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 07:28:10 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:28:10 -0400 Subject: Maror (1889, 1892); Choroses (1878); Pot Sticker (1980); Non-Stick Message-ID: MAROR The revised OED has only 1893 for "maror" or "bitter herbs," a part of the Passover table. 16 April 1889, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: ...the Morosim, or bitter herbs, symbolizing the bitterness of the bondage from which they had been delivered;... (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Century Illustrated Magazine (1881-1906), New York; Jan 1892; Vol. VOL. XLIII., Iss. 0 THE JEWS IN NEW YORK.; Richard Wheatley.; pg. 323, 20 pgs Pg. 340?: The "matzoth," or unleavened cakes, keep alive the memory of deliverance from Egypt, as the "maror," or bitter herbs, do of the precedent bondage. --------------------------------------------------------------- CHAROSES OED has 1885 for "charoseth," another part of the Passover table. 27 January 1878, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. 8: The horseradish, or bitter herb, and the mixture called _choroses_, typify the bondage of the Israelites and the cruelty of the Egyptians in embittering their lives by the degrading servitude to which they compelled them. The _choroses_, being prepared in the form of a paste or preserve, is symbolical of the mortar which was used by the Israelites in building the treasure cities for Pharaoh... 18 April 1878, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Near this dish is placed a saucer of vinegar or some salt and water, and there is also another dish containing a mixture of almonds, apples, nuts, figs and spices, formed into the consistency of a paste or preserve and known by the name of "choroses." --------------------------------------------------------------- POT STICKER OED still doesn't have this? The NEW YORK TIMES isn't great. FOOD The Chinese Tea Lunch Comes to L.I.; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 6, 1980; pg. LI8, 1 pgs ("Dim sum is loosely divisible into several categories--steamed foods, quick fried or deep-fried foods, pan-fried foods and 'pot-stickers'-tidbits wrapped in dough, that do indeed stick to the pot.") (WORLDCAT database) Title: The Art of Chinese cooking Author(s): Wong, S. T. Ting. ; Schulman, Sylvia,; 1920- Corp Author(s): Just Spokes Productions. Publication: Franklin, N.J. :; Just Spokes, Year: 1983 Description: 1 videocassette (VHS) (50 min.) :; sd., col. ;; 1/2 in. Language: English Abstract: Madame Wong and Sylvia Schulman discuss the ingredients and preparation methods of Har gow, fun gor (pot stickers), agar-agar salad, and Vegetables of peace and harmony. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery, Chinese. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 641.59/51 Responsibility: Just Spokes Productions ; producer, director, Gary Youngman. Photography, Diana Lyn ; cameramen, Patrick Marty, John Sharaf. Material Type: Projected image (pgr); Videorecording (vid); VHS tape (vhs) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19850801 Update: 20000510 Accession No: OCLC: 43045402 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- NON-STICK OED has 1958 for "non-stick." Non-Stick Postage Stamps.; CATHERINE BARRETT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 17, 1927; pg. 16, 1 pgs with Item: "Aunt Chick's pies : / rec..." CA LOS ANGELES PUB LIBR LPU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Aunt Chick's pies : recipes compiled, methods developed, non-stick pastry canvas and crispy crust pie pan / Author(s): McBirney, Nettie. Publication: Tulsa, Okla. : The Chickadees, Year: 1938 Description: 36, [3] p. : ill. ; 20 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Pies. Pastry. Note(s): "Tarts, ravioli, cookies, doughnuts"--Cover./ Includes index. Responsibility: manufactured by Nettie McBirney (Mrs. Samuel Pendelton). Document Type: Book Entry: 19981019 Update: 19981019 Accession No: OCLC: 40129226 Database: WorldCat From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 10 08:10:23 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:10:23 -0700 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030409233150.02503770@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: >>How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are >>washed)? On the old Saturday Night Live, with the original cast, Jane Curtin had a recurring character that pronounced most initial and medial s phonemes as z. I can't recall if she was supposed to be some specific nationality, though. Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 08:31:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:31:30 -0400 Subject: Fruit Cocktail (1902); Jonah Crab (1883) Message-ID: "Fruit cocktail" should have been posted with "cocktail sauce" and "Jonah crab" with "Dungeness crab," but it's been a long day. --------------------------------------------------------------- FRUIT COCKTAIL OED has 1922 for "fruit cocktail." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Aug 1907; Vol. Volume XXIV,, Iss. 0 How to Live Without a Fire; By Mrs. S. T. Rorer; pg. 28, 1 pgs The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Aug 1906; Vol. Volume XXIII,, Iss. 0 Hot-Weather Drinks and Menus; By Mrs. S. T. Rorer; pg. 33, 1 pgs The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Jun 1902; Vol. Vol. XIX,, Iss. 0 The Serving of Fruits; By Mrs. S. T. Rorer; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("_Fruit Punches_. In the early spring days when strawberries are just coming, mixed fruits served in small punch-glasses under the name of fruit cocktails or fruit punches are exceedingly attractive.") --------------------------------------------------------------- JONAH CRAB OED has 1893 for "Jonah crab." A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Jun 28, 1883; Vol. VOL. XX., Iss. 0 EDIBLE CRABS OF THE UNITED STATES.; Forest and Stream; pg. 423, 1 pgs ("The rock and Jonah crabs (_Canceriscoraeus_ and _berealis_) are eaten only to a slight extent, probably for the reason that their range is co-extensive with that of the lobster, which is much more favorably regarded as an article of food.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 08:46:39 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:46:39 -0400 Subject: Billionaire (1844) Message-ID: (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Knickerbocker or New York Monthly Magazine (1833-1862), New York; Mar 1844; Vol. 23, Iss. 3 American Ptyalism: 'Quid Rides!'; Anonymous; pg. 288, 2 pgs Pg. 288: Chewing is eminently democratic, since all chewers are "pro hac _vice_" on a perfect equality, and a "millionaire;" or, for that matter, a "billionaire," if we had him, would not hesitate to take out of his mouth a moiety of his last "chew" and give it to an itinerant Lazarus. From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Thu Apr 10 11:28:44 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:28:44 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't remember Jane Curtin 's character, but it seems unlikely that she would play any Long John Silver types, presumably with a southwestern (Zomerzet) accent. dInIs >>>How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes are >>>washed)? > > > On the old Saturday Night Live, with the original cast, Jane Curtin >had a recurring character that pronounced most initial and medial s >phonemes as z. I can't recall if she was supposed to be some >specific nationality, though. > >Rima -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Thu Apr 10 11:30:35 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:30:35 -0400 Subject: "ese" suffix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >When Dubya is in his best rhetorical mode, all his final voiced >continuants become voiceless. dInIs (happy to be voiceless in his final segment from birth) >I have been wondering from afar if there is a tendency for final >devoicing of voiced obstruents in American English - or at least of >final -s. > >Certainly plurals and genitives seem to do this in some cases with >some speakers: so McDonald's is sometimes /-ts/, with retrogressive >assimilation of (de-)voicing. It may be morphologically conditioned: >I have heard Chinese as /-s/, but not cheese as /-s/. > >Roly Sussex > > >-- > >Roly Sussex >Professor of Applied Language Studies >Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics >School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies >The University of Queensland >Brisbane >Queensland 4072 >AUSTRALIA > >Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) >Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 >Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 >Email: sussex at uq.edu.au >Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html >School's website: > http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ >Applied linguistics website: > http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ > >Language Talkback ABC radio: >Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ >Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ > http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ > http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ > >********************************************************** -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 12:13:37 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:13:37 EDT Subject: great-cousin Message-ID: In a message dated 4/9/2003 11:27:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, nee1 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU writes: > a picture of a young man holding a small infant and it said, > infant's name, held by his 17-year-old great-cousin. There was no > further information. Can any one tell me what this might mean? probably "first cousin once removed". If the son of one's niece or nephew is a "great nephew", then by analogy one might refer to the child of a first cousin as a "great cousin". Note that it is quite likely for a first cousin of a 17-year-old to be of an age to have an infant child. As far as I know, this is a nonce expression, perpetrated by a caption writer who didn't have time to ask and couldn't remember the usual term. Not everybody is a competent geneologist. I once saw in a lawyer's office a chart showing the various degrees of cousinship, implying that either the lawyer or his clients needed help with the subject. My family was insistent that the child of one's first cousin was a "second cousin" and that someone who shared a great-grandparent but not a grandparent was your "third cousin". It took me years to break this habit and accept the conventional usages of that lawyer's chart. I once met a woman, born circa 1910, who said she was a "fourth cousin" of Abraham Lincoln. I think it more likely that she was a first cousin four times removed of Lincoln. Her given middle name was Wilson and her surname was Whitehouse. She somehow avoided running for office, but this heritage may have been reflected in her profession---she was a "governess". - James A. Landau From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 12:23:55 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:23:55 EDT Subject: Maror (1889, 1892); Choroses (1878) Message-ID: Earliest "matzo" citation known to me is minutes of Congregation Shearith Israel, March 1, 1825 "The Committee apponted to make arrangements for Bekeing Matsot made the following report The Committee appointed to procure a suitable place to bake Matsoth for the endsuing Pesach report that they called on Mr Speir the person employed last year for that purpose " - Jim Landau From andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU Thu Apr 10 12:59:28 2003 From: andrew.danielson at CMU.EDU (Drew Danielson) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:59:28 -0400 Subject: linguistic note in News of the Weird Message-ID: The current issue of News of the Weird by Chuck Shepherd contains the following item under the heading, "People Different From Us": http://www.newsoftheweird.com/archive/nw030406.html "Carl Masthay, 62, was written up in Riverfront Times (St. Louis) for compiling (over the last 12 years), and self- publishing, an exhaustive, 757-page dictionary for translating between French and the Illinois Indian Kaskaskian dialect (a language no one has spoken for hundreds of years). [...] [Riverfront Times, 3-5-03]" The original Riverfront Times article is at http://www.riverfronttimes.com/issues/2003-03-05/news.html/1/index.html From lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG Thu Apr 10 14:19:16 2003 From: lists at SPANISHTRANSLATOR.ORG (Scott Sadowsky) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:19:16 -0500 Subject: the language-sensitive centimeter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 2003-04-07 15:22, Steve Boatti wrote the following: >It wouldn't surprise me if the discrepancy is due to differing government >regulations on how to measure the "cooking surface." Having been peripherally involved in such things, I suspect the explanation is even simpler: each language version was translated by a different person, everyone involved used their own criteria for rounding, and no project manager bothered to compare the different versiones for consistency. Cheers, Scott From bergdahl at OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 10 13:03:48 2003 From: bergdahl at OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU (David Bergdahl) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:03:48 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030409233150.02503770@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: This pronunciation is common on Tangier Is. and is supposed to resemble the west country of their native England. Any spread westward (IL, NE) might be considered as derived from the Chesapeake Bay or directly from the west of Englond. --On Wednesday, April 9, 2003 11:46 PM -0400 "Douglas G. Wilson" wrote: >> How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes >> are washed)? > > I don't recall ever hearing it myself. > > Quick Web search indicates that the pronunciation "zinc" for "sink" is > considered by some to be a shibboleth of the Baltimore region, or the > MD/DE/VA region. > > I find at a glance two instances of "sink" actually written "zinc", one > apparently from a Nebraskan in the 1940's, the other from Illinois in the > 1870's. > > Possibilities would include pronunciation from German or perhaps from some > British dialect (?). However, if the /s/>/z/ is restricted to this single > word, I would speculate that the word might be in fact basically "zinc", > either because the word "sink" was taken to be an abbreviation of "zinc > basin" or "zincked tub" or something like that, or because "zinc sink" was > consciously contracted: back in the day, a zinc/zincked (i.e., galvanized) > sink was a conventional household/kitchen item, I believe. > > -- Doug Wilson _________________________________________ "Practice random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control" From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Thu Apr 10 14:29:28 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:29:28 -0500 Subject: "ese" suffix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are we talking about the voicelessness of lenis obstruents, what are traditionally classed as voiced obstruents? Or are we talking about replacement of, for example, final /z/ with final /s/? A devoiced /z/ is not an /s/. Just contrast "bus" and "buzz". The final /z/ is voiceless, fully or at least in its latter half, but the articulation is still less tense and shorter than that of final /s/, hence the shorter vowel before the /s/. However, the contrastive difference between obstruents in English is not voicing but fortis vs. lenis. Fortis obstruents default to voiceless and lenis obstruents voice partially or fully depending on their environment. Utterance-initial or -final they are fully or partly voiceless. Same thing adjacent to a voiceless segment. Between voiced segments they are voiced. You can hear the voicelessness of final lenes particularly well in words like "judged", where there's a long enough final lenis string for the voicelessness to be particularly evident. Ladefoged and Maddieson provide an excellent discussion fortis vs. lenis in The Sounds of the World's Languages. What's not been clear to me in this discussion of -ese is whether people are responding to final voicelessness, which won't, by itself, distinguish /-s/ from /-z/, or to vowel length. Since coda fortes take longer to pronounce than coda lenes, they shorten the vowel, an effect well known but commonly misdescribed as lengthening before voiced consonants. If the phonological contrast is in the final consonant, then "Chineece" should have a shorter vowel than "Chinese". If we're simply talking about the normal devoicing of final lenes, however, there won't be a difference in vowel length. Since most speakers of English are unaware of final devoicing of lenes and since vowel length is a major clue to final consonant quality, I suspect what we've been talking about is a fortis/lenis contrast with its corresponding vowel length alternation. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Dennis R. Preston Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 6:31 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: "ese" suffix >When Dubya is in his best rhetorical mode, all his final voiced >continuants become voiceless. dInIs (happy to be voiceless in his final segment from birth) >I have been wondering from afar if there is a tendency for final >devoicing of voiced obstruents in American English - or at least of >final -s. > >Certainly plurals and genitives seem to do this in some cases with >some speakers: so McDonald's is sometimes /-ts/, with retrogressive >assimilation of (de-)voicing. It may be morphologically conditioned: >I have heard Chinese as /-s/, but not cheese as /-s/. > >Roly Sussex > > >-- > >Roly Sussex >Professor of Applied Language Studies >Department of French, German, Russian, Spanish and Applied Linguistics >School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies >The University of Queensland >Brisbane >Queensland 4072 >AUSTRALIA > >Office: Greenwood 434 (Building 32) >Phone: +61 7 3365 6896 >Fax: +61 7 3365 6799 >Email: sussex at uq.edu.au >Web: http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/profiles/sussex.html >School's website: > http://www.arts.uq.edu.au/slccs/ >Applied linguistics website: > http://www.uq.edu.au/slccs/AppliedLing/ > >Language Talkback ABC radio: >Web: http://www.cltr.uq.edu.au/languagetalkback/ >Audio: from http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/ > http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/ > http://www.abc.net.au/hobart/ > >********************************************************** -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From AAllan at AOL.COM Thu Apr 10 15:15:21 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:15:21 EDT Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: Allow me to quote from that authoritative book, "How We Talk: American Regional English Today" by Allan Metcalf (Houghton Mifflin, 2000), p 52: "Baltimore is also one of the places where you can hear 'zink' for _sink_. Other examples of that pronunciation have been found by the _Dictionary of American Regional English_ in New York, Kentucky, Mississippi, Iowa, and North Dakota." My source is a message from Joan Hall of DARE in reply to my inquiry in 1999: "A quick check of the DARE files turns up examples from IA, KY (2), MD (2), MS, NY (2), and ND." I notice that the new volume of DARE has no entry for "sink," but perhaps this information will appear in a Volume 5 entry for "zink." - Allan Metcalf From Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM Thu Apr 10 15:22:28 2003 From: Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM (LeMay, William) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:22:28 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: I can verify that it's alive and well here in Dubuque, Iowa. My grandmother would always say "rensh [rinse] it out in the zink". Bill Le May From gscole at ARK.SHIP.EDU Thu Apr 10 16:17:59 2003 From: gscole at ARK.SHIP.EDU (GSCole) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:17:59 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? Message-ID: Seem to recall a discussion of the use of 'zinc' for sink, on this list, several years ago. Growing up in northern Delaware, we (my family) called the large, angular, side-by-side washtubs zincs. The single tub was a zinc. They had a whited-lead look to them. I was told that the metal in them was zinc. Other large tubs, not made of a similar metal, were merely tubs. Smaller ones, not used in a laundry area, were sinks. George Cole Shippensburg University From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 10 16:26:55 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:26:55 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <35438.1049965428@dhcp-073-091.ellis.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: At 09:03 AM 4/10/2003 -0400, you wrote: >This pronunciation is common on Tangier Is. and is supposed to resemble the >west country of their native England. Any spread westward (IL, NE) might >be considered as derived from the Chesapeake Bay or directly from the west >of Englond. > >--On Wednesday, April 9, 2003 11:46 PM -0400 "Douglas G. Wilson" > wrote: > >>>How widespread is the pronunciation of /zink/ for "sink" (where dishes >>>are washed)? >> >>I don't recall ever hearing it myself. >> >>Quick Web search indicates that the pronunciation "zinc" for "sink" is >>considered by some to be a shibboleth of the Baltimore region, or the >>MD/DE/VA region. >> >>I find at a glance two instances of "sink" actually written "zinc", one >>apparently from a Nebraskan in the 1940's, the other from Illinois in the >>1870's. >> >>Possibilities would include pronunciation from German or perhaps from some >>British dialect (?). However, if the /s/>/z/ is restricted to this single >>word, I would speculate that the word might be in fact basically "zinc", >>either because the word "sink" was taken to be an abbreviation of "zinc >>basin" or "zincked tub" or something like that, or because "zinc sink" was >>consciously contracted: back in the day, a zinc/zincked (i.e., galvanized) >>sink was a conventional household/kitchen item, I believe. >> >>-- Doug Wilson > > > >_________________________________________ >"Practice random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control" When I first met my ex-mother-in-law from Baltimore and heard her say "zinc," I looked over to the sink to see if it was made of zinc (it wasn't, as far as I could tell). I knew nothing about dialect variation at the time, obviously. But I suppose the earlier imported pronunciation could have led to a lexical reanalysis as non-English (or non-German?) settlers moved in and heard the term. From mam at THEWORLD.COM Thu Apr 10 22:57:16 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:57:16 -0400 Subject: the language-sensitive centimeter In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030410090521.04be9620@66.36.96.30> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Scott Sadowsky wrote: #On 2003-04-07 15:22, Steve Boatti wrote the following: # #>It wouldn't surprise me if the discrepancy is due to differing government #>regulations on how to measure the "cooking surface." # #Having been peripherally involved in such things, I suspect the explanation #is even simpler: each language version was translated by a different #person, everyone involved used their own criteria for rounding, and no #project manager bothered to compare the different versiones for consistency. And this morning I saw a similar product, also with E/F/S labeling, in which the F and S metric numbers were the same. -- Mark M. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 02:12:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:12:55 EDT Subject: V-I Day Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/10/opinion/10SAFI.html William Safire's NEW YORK TIMES column (above) today is titled "Jubilant V-I Day." That's for "Victory over/in Iraq." OED has both "VE" (Europe) and "VJ" (Japan). It's a good thing we don't have to declare victory over Denmark. Google Groups shows that Safire didn't come close to coining it. "V-I Day" has been used not only recently, but also in 1991 during the first Gulf War. Let's see, if we beat Iran, that would be called... From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 11 02:14:17 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:14:17 -0400 Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language Message-ID: Can anyone help me determine the precise source of the William S. Burroughs quotation, "Language is a virus from outer space"? Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Fri Apr 11 02:42:02 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:42:02 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: Ed: > > > I've heard some people use the voiceless "ese" in at > least Japanese, and perhaps some others. I've heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece", but not "Portugeece". Anybody else have similar experiences? Anne G. From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Fri Apr 11 04:36:12 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:36:12 -0400 Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language Message-ID: Fred, I'm just googling on "groups" and this came up. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=borroughs+virus&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=of f&selm=30mfl4%24of6%40tuba.cit.cornell.edu&rnum=3 Don't know if it helps. It doesn't contain the exact phrase, but it does have the words in there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shapiro" To: Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:14 PM Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language > Can anyone help me determine the precise source of the William S. > Burroughs quotation, "Language is a virus from outer space"? > > Fred Shapiro > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Fred R. Shapiro Editor > Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS > Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, > Yale Law School forthcoming > e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 05:06:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:06:38 -0400 Subject: Acorn Squash (1845); Orange Pekoe (1840); Imperial Crab (1945) Message-ID: ACORN SQUASH OED has 1937 for "acorn squash." This continues "squash studies" that have included buttercup squash (1932), butternut squash (1944), crookneck squash (1839), pattypan squash (1835), spaghetti squash (1976), and turban squash (1872). (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) Whitman, Narcissa Prentiss. "Letter from Narcissa Whitman to Mrs. L. L. Brewer, Febuary 20, 1845" [Page 183 | Paragraph | Section | Document] to your husband for him. He would write, if possible. He sends some corn as Mr. B. requested. He has none that has been particularly saved for seed; but will, next fall, if desired, save and send some New York corn, which we find to be very suitable for the country. Some beets and acorn squash seeds are in the bag with the corn. The others you requested, we have none. Please give my love to Brother and Sister Waller, to your husband and self and all the dear children, and believe me, in haste, Yours affectionately, N. W. Mrs Results Bibliography Whitman, Narcissa Prentiss, 1808-1847, Letter from Narcissa Whitman to Mrs. L. L. Brewer, Febuary 20, 1845, in Mrs. Whitman's Letters 1843-1847. Salem, OR: Oregon Pioneer Association, 1894, pp. 167. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [2-20-1845] S232-D038 --------------------------------------------------------------- ORANGE PEKOE OED has 1877 for "orange pekoe" tea. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The Merchants' Magazine and Commercial Review (1839-1870), New York; Dec 1840; Vol. 3, Iss. 6 Art. I.--Commerce of China; Anonymous; pg. 465, 17 pgs Pg. 466 (TEAS): Orange Pekoe. --------------------------------------------------------------- IMPERIAL CRAB I should add that the same restaurant that served "crab imperial" in 1944 advertised "imperial crab" in 1945. Display Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 6, 1945; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("The King of the Sea, 3rd Ave., near 53rd St.") --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: EASTER ISLAND'S SEX, LIES AND FIELD NOTES http://www.americandialect.org/excite/collections/adsl/000690.shtml In November 1998, I made the above post on "Easter Island Words." My tour guide has published a fine book, AMONG STONE GIANTS: THE LIFE OF KATHERINE ROUTLEDGE AND HER REMARKABLE EXPEDITION TO EASTER ISLAND (NY: Scribner, 2003). She's leading another tour of the island on November 1-16 (www.archaeologicaltrs.com). Last evening at the Explorers Club on East 79th Street (www.explorers.org), she gave a lecture on "Sex, Lies and Field Notes: Katherine Routledge and Easter Island Archaeology." This was one of my first places on the world tour, and she remembered me after five years. I wasn't mentioned in "Sex, Lies and Field Notes." Whew, that was close. From jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM Fri Apr 11 13:28:58 2003 From: jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM (James Smith) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:28:58 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? In-Reply-To: <009901c2ffd3$ef53bce0$75a8f5d1@annehpbrww9plk> Message-ID: --- Anne Gilbert wrote: > Ed: .... > > I've heard "Chineece" and "Japaneece", but not > "Portugeece". Anybody else > have similar experiences? > Anne G. To help those of us who have, apparently, never heard this, is it "eece" as in "Greece"? ===== James D. SMITH |If history teaches anything South SLC, UT |it is that we will be sued jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com |whether we act quickly and decisively |or slowly and cautiously. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET Fri Apr 11 17:22:57 2003 From: avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET (Anne Gilbert) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 Subject: "ese" suffix insulting/racist? Message-ID: James: > To help those of us who have, apparently, never heard > this, is it "eece" as in "Greece"? Yes. Anne G From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 11 18:24:28 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:24:28 -0400 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: <000701c2ffe3$e7434600$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: I need some help in interpreting a word-usage. The OED's first use of the word "computer" in the sense of "a person who computes" is dated 1646. In the sense of a calculating machine, their earliest use is dated 1897. I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure whether "computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. Can anyone tell from the context what the likely answer is? 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no reply. Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an elevation of a quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes following the course of the nib, as if it were the index of a patent computer. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 11 18:51:59 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:51:59 -0700 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I need some help in interpreting a word-usage. > > The OED's first use of the word "computer" in the sense of "a > person who computes" is dated 1646. In the sense of a > calculating machine, their earliest use is dated 1897. > > I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure > whether "computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. > Can anyone tell from the context what the likely answer is? > > 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no > reply. Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, > at an elevation of a quarter of an inch above the paper, her > eyes following the course of the nib, as if it were the index > of a patent computer. To me, this is clearly denoting a computing or calculating device. The clues are: 1) the use of "patent." It is differentiating between a person who computes and a patented device that does so. In this case, the phrase "patent computer" may be a transitional term between human and mechanical calculators. 2) the particular sense of "index." This is OED2 definition 2.a., "A piece of wood, metal, or the like, which serves as a pointer; esp. in scientific instruments, a pointer which moves along a graduated scale (or which is itself fixed while a graduated scale moves across its extremity) so as to indicate movements or measurements." Phemie's actions are mimicking the movements of a calculating machine. From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 11 19:04:22 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:04:22 +0100 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred Shapiro wrote: > I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure whether > "computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. Can anyone > tell from the context what the likely answer is? > > 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no > reply. Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an > elevation of a quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes > following the course of the nib, as if it were the index of a > patent computer. That is an intriguing citation. The word "patent" and the general image suggests that a form of machine is being referred to. There were a large number of attempts to create mechanical calculators in the nineteenth century. It could be referring to a Thomas machine, which was invented in the 1820s and was so successful that it was still being sold almost a century later. But all such devices were, so far as I know, usually called "calculating machines". -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 11 21:17:58 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:17:58 -0400 Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I have found the following 1869 citation, but I'm not sure whether >"computer" here refers to a person or to a machine. Can anyone tell from >the context what the likely answer is? > >1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no reply. Her >pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an elevation of a >quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes following the course of the >nib, as if it were the index of a patent computer. IMHO, this appears to refer to a machine ... perhaps an analogue computer? Brief glance at U.S. patent documents prior to 1869 shows "calculator" and "calculating machine", "adder" and "adding machine", (rarely) "reckoner" and "reckoning machine", ... and (not so rarely) "computing machine". I did NOT find "computer" (I don't claim an exhaustive search), although if a calculating machine can be called a calculator then surely a computing machine can be called a computer ... perhaps with a qualifier such as "patent" or "mechanical", since at that time "computer" referred to a person's occupation/activity (quotation from 1870 [referring to a calculating machine]: "it is questionable if such an elaborate undertaking would have been possible if the work done by the machine had been required at the hands of even a much larger staff of computers than would ever be available in a public department"). "Computing machine" is in patent application #60,475 (1866), for example, while #18,711 (1857) employs the expression "implement or device for computing or calculating". -- Doug Wilson From einstein at FROGNET.NET Fri Apr 11 22:24:22 2003 From: einstein at FROGNET.NET (David Bergdahl) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:24:22 -0400 Subject: Leo Rosten died Message-ID: Writer Leo Rosten dies; popularized Yiddish in U.S. > > DEBRA NUSSBAUM COHEN > > Jewish Telegraphic Agency > > NEW YORK -- Leo Rosten, who translated his mamaloshen into English and > helped make words like "shlep" and "nosh" part > of the American vernacular, has died at 88. > > Perhaps best known for his 1968 book "The Joys of Yiddish," Rosten was an > amateur sociologist who also authored dozens of > nonfiction and fiction titles, including mysteries. > > His first book, 1937's "The Education of H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N," which grew > out of short stories he had published in > the New Yorker magazine, affectionately recounted the struggles of people > steeped in Yiddish culture and language who were > trying to acclimate to life in America. > > Early in his career, Rosten used the pseudonym Leonard Q. Ross. He was > apparently trying -- like many transplanted Jews -- > to go by a name that sounded to his immigrant ears more glamorous and > American. Rosten was born April 11, 1908, in Lodz, > Poland, to Samuel and Ida Freundlich Rosten. The family immigrated to the > United States when he was 3. > > In Chicago, Rosten was raised in a working-class environment whose > population of new Jewish Americans formed the setting > for his later writing. > > His best-known character, Hyman Kaplan, was based on one of Rosten's > students from night school. > > The warmth and humor with which Rosten wrote about his indomitable Hyman > Kaplan struck a familiar chord with many > people who were striving at the time to blend into the melting pot. > > Kaplan reappeared in two sequels, "The Return of H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N," in > 1959, and "O K*A*P*L*A*N! My > K*A*P*L*A*N!" in 1976. > > Rosten possessed the same ear for humor and the same affection for his > characters that Sholem Aleichem and Mark Twain had > for theirs, said Sol Steinmetz, an authority on the impact of Yiddish on the > English language. > > Hyman Kaplan's "is a loving story, and throughout his life Mr. Rosten tried > to convey this tremendous love of the language and > culture," said Steinmetz, author of "Yiddish and English: A Century of > Yiddish in America" and editorial director of the > reference division at Random House. Steinmetz was recently quoted by New > York Times language columnist William Safire as > differing with Rosten over the origins of the Yiddish word "shmuck." > > Rosten "has made a lasting contribution to American culture and even Jewish > culture. Jews who in the 1930s were ashamed of > Yiddish, and throughout World War II felt funny about recognizing their > Jewishness, learned through people like Rosten to feel > proud of their Yiddishness without fear or shame," he said. > > Decades later, Rosten wrote "The Joys of Yiddish" and helped bring to > America's farthest reaches a familiarity with Yiddish > patois. > > Rosten "helped popularize the usefulness and interest and humor of Yiddish > as it influenced American English -- so people were > not embarrassed, after his contributions, to use such words," said > Steinmetz. > > Today, even Dunkin' Donuts urges customers to try its new bagels through the > use of billboards reading, "It's Worth the > Schlep." > > Words such as "mensch" and "chutzpah," which with their multiple nuances > have no precise English equivalent, and uniquely > Yiddish sentence forms such as "Shakespeare it's not" and "Enjoy, enjoy!" > are now used by Americans totally removed from > any connection to the culture from which this language sprang. > > Today, "you can live in Minnesota and pick up a Yiddishism and not even be > aware of what it is," Steinmetz said of Rosten's > lasting influence. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 22:50:37 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:50:37 EDT Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) Message-ID: HUH?? From the archives at nytimes.com: Magazine Desk | January 4, 1998, Sunday The Lives They Lived: Leo Rosten; Talking Tachlis By Wendy Wasserstein (NYT) 574 words Late Edition - Final , Section 6 , Page 24 , Column 2 ABSTRACT - Wendy Wasserstein tribute to Leo Rosten, humorist and author of book on Yiddish language, who died in 1997; photo (M) b. 1908 Leo Rosten probably made Seinfeld safe for TV and bagels acceptable on the Delta Shuttle. Although Rosten was primarily a humorist, his larger purpose was to help us understand our social selves. In our house, Yiddish was the language of the old country, specifically Poland, and therefore the one that the ''kinder'' didn't understand. My brother Bruce and I sought to decode secret transmissions by signing him up for high-school German. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 11 23:06:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:06:11 EDT Subject: Manila clam (1969, 1971, 1972); Sea Dollar (1879) Message-ID: (I tried to send this "thrilla in Manila" last night, but AOL didn't respond after clicking "SEND.") MANILA CLAM More local seafood for you Washington State readers. "Manila clam" is not in the revised OED? From the NEW YORK TIMES, 1 July 1990, pg. XX6: "The Manila, as it is called, took hold in the 60's, and it is now the standard of the Northwest clam industry." These are the last of _120 hits_ in the NEW YORK TIMES alone: 115. Glittering Italian on the South Shore; By JOANNE STARKEY; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 18, 1989; pg. LI15, 1 pgs 116. For Northwest Chefs, a Mixed Blessing In an Abundance of Local Products; By BRYAN MILLER, SEATTLE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 17, 1989; pg. C6, 1 pgs 117. 'Clean Eating' for the Holidays; By M.H. REED; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 13, 1988; pg. WC31, 1 pgs 118. Italian Fare for Healthy Appetites; By PATRICIA BROOKS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 14, 1988; pg. CN35, 1 pgs 119. SEAFOOD OF THE DESERT; BY SUSAN HERRMANN LOOMIS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 30, 1987; pg. SM47, 2 pgs 120. Ordering the Fresh Produce; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 17, 1985; pg. C8, 1 pgs (JSTOR database) Ecological Effects of Intertidal Manila Clam Cultivation: Observations at the End of the Cultivation Phase B. E. Spencer; M. J. Kaiser; D. B. Edwards Journal of Applied Ecology, Vol. 34, No. 2. (Apr., 1997), pp. 444-452. (WORLDCAT database) A guide to Manila clam aquaculture in Puget Sound / Author: Anderson, Gregory J.; Miller, Mark B.; Chew, Kenneth K. Publication: Seattle : Washington Sea Grant Program, College of Ocean and Fishery Sciences, University of Washington, 1982 Document: English : Book Libraries: 25 Libraries with Item: "The morphology, morphogen..." WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: The morphology, morphogenesis and reactive responses of 3H-thymidine labeled leucocytes in the Manila clam, Tapes semidecussata (Reeve). Author(s): Cheney, Daniel P., 1941- Year: 1969 Description: 194 l. illus. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Manila clam. Leucocytes. Wounds and injuries. Note(s): Bibliography: l. [150]-158./ Dissertation: Thesis (Ph. D.)--University of Washington. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19890513 Update: 20020622 Accession No: OCLC: 19703580 Database: WorldCat Libraries with Item: "The setting and growth of..." WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item1 Title: The setting and growth of the Manila clam, Venerupis japonica (Deshayes), in Hood Canal, Washington. Author(s): Nosho, Terry Yoshihisa. Year: 1971 Description: 67 l. illus. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Clams -- Washington (State) -- Hood Canal. Mollusks -- Washington (State) -- Hood Canal. Manila clam. Note(s): Bibliography: l. [64]-67./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--University of Washington. Other Titles: Manila clam. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19890821 Update: 20020712 Accession No: OCLC: 20224474 Libraries with Item: "Various aspects of the reproductive..." WA UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Various aspects of the reproductive cycle of the manila clam (Venerupis japonica). Author(s): Holland, David Allen. Year: 1972 Description: 61 l. illus. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Clams. Note(s): Bibliography: l. 51-54./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--University of Washington. Other Titles: Manila clam (Venerupis japonics) Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19890523 Update: 20020627 Accession No: OCLC: 19750871 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- SEA DOLLAR OED has 1884 for "sand dollar." This "sea dollar" just looked interesting. Same thing? "Thousand dollars" sure throws off a "sand dollar" search. Search the Full-Text of Harper's Weekly, 1857-1912 79-11-01 Page 879 . . . > around at right angles with the pillow, and at in- tervals kicked out wildly, scattering the bed- clothes far and near. Above their heads two shelves contained their museum of treasures col- lected during the day. Pebbles, bits of lobster shells and claws, "sea-dollars," dried star-fish, the shells of sea-urchins perforated with a skill no Chinese carver on ivory ever could imitate, mussels, oysters overgrown with sea-weed -- what . . . From mam at THEWORLD.COM Fri Apr 11 23:15:27 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:15:27 -0400 Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: # HUH?? From the archives at nytimes.com: # # #Magazine Desk | January 4, 1998, Sunday #The Lives They Lived: Leo Rosten; Talking Tachlis # #By Wendy Wasserstein (NYT) 574 words [...] #our social selves. In our house, Yiddish was the language of the old country, #specifically Poland, and therefore the one that the ''kinder'' didn't #understand. My brother Bruce and I sought to decode secret transmissions by #signing him up for high-school German. My grandparents used it the same way. I read it as meaning that her brother signed up to study German in h.s. as a way for to understand their parents' Yiddish, and tell his sister too. Presumably (almost certainly) their h.s. didn't offer Yiddish. Just because that's what they were trying to do doesn't mean they succeeded at it. -- Mark M. From self at TOWSE.COM Fri Apr 11 23:18:09 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:18:09 -0700 Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) Message-ID: Mark A Mandel wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > > # HUH?? From the archives at nytimes.com: > # > # > #Magazine Desk | January 4, 1998, Sunday > #The Lives They Lived: Leo Rosten; Talking Tachlis > # > #By Wendy Wasserstein (NYT) 574 words > [...] > #our social selves. In our house, Yiddish was the language of the old country, > #specifically Poland, and therefore the one that the ''kinder'' didn't > #understand. My brother Bruce and I sought to decode secret transmissions by > #signing him up for high-school German. > > My grandparents used it the same way. > > I read it as meaning that her brother signed up to study German in h.s. > as a way for to understand their parents' Yiddish, and tell his sister > too. Presumably (almost certainly) their h.s. didn't offer Yiddish. > > Just because that's what they were trying to do doesn't mean they > succeeded at it. I think Barry's HUH?? was referring to the "Leo Rosten died" obit he was responding to, not to Wendy Wasserstein's piece, written in 1997. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 00:36:39 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:36:39 EDT Subject: Possible Antedating of "Computer" Message-ID: In a message dated 4/11/03 2:25:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU writes: > 1869 Marion Harland _Phemie's Temptation_ 12 Phemie made no reply. > Her pen was slowly traversing the length of the page, at an elevation of a > quarter of an inch above the paper, her eyes following the course of the > nib, as if it were the index of a patent computer. Compare "if we have a machine with an index of any kind, which, while the generating line moves one inch downwards, moves forward as many degrees as the generating lin is inches long the index will still measure the area of the curve traced by the extremity of the generating line." The above is part of a description, published in 1855, of a machine to "integrate a curve" (i.e. to measure the area under a curve). Note the use of the word "index", meaning something which sticks out of a machine and conveys numerical information. I don't doubt that the 1869 quote is a description of the same or a somewhat similar computing machine. Quote is from James Clerk Maxwell, "Description of a New Form of the Platometer, an Instrument for Measuring the Areas of Plane Figures drawn on Paper" Trnasactions of the Royal Scottish Society of Arts, vol. IV (1855), quoted in Herman H. Goldstine _The Computer from Pascal to von Neumann_ Princeton NJ: Princeton University Press, page 42,. 43n Also worth quoting: "The object of this machine is to substitute brass for brain in the great mechanical labour of calculating the elementary consistuents of the whole tidal rise and fall." William Thompson, Lord Kelvin, _Mathematical and Physical Papers_, vol VI, page 280, quoted in Goldstine, page 43, 44n - James A. Landau From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 04:41:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:41:55 -0400 Subject: Buttermilk Pie (1938); Milk Shake (1886); Ice Cream Scooper (1954) Message-ID: Thanks to NYU's Greg Downing for pointing out that NYU now has the WASHINGTON POST on a trial basis, so I can look at that again. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERMILK PIE, POCAHONTAS PUDDING, WHITE MONKEY I knew the WASHINGTON POST would be better on "buttermilk pie" than the NEW YORK TIMES. I also found a "white monkey" with "Pocahontas." Display Ad 137 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 9, 1952; pg. X32, 1 pgs Now's the Time to Whip Up Cooling Supper Dishes; By Lucia Brown; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 20, 1947; pg. C7, 1 pgs Pie as Dessert Brightens the Day Regardless of the Occasion; Ice Cream Marmalade Treat Wins First Prize; By Martha Ellyn, By The Post Food Editor; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 8, 1939; pg. 18, 1 pgs Recipes Flow Like Milk They're Made of Into Post Food Contest to Take Prizes; Puddings, Soups, Sauces, Salads Among Dishes of Dairy Origin; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 7, 1939; pg. 15, 1 pgs ("...Pocahontas pudding...") ("One of the most amusing ideas suggested was 'White Monkey,' which, despite its jungle name, was a mild and gentle dish of eggs poached in milk, then combined with cheese and hot toast.") Delicious Pies, Gingerbread and Griddle Cakes Made With Buttermilk Take Prizes in Post's Contest; Flavor Adds Tang Novelty Economical Waffles Popular; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 14, 1938; pg. X18, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- MILK SHAKE I had posted the first of the below recently. The 1886 cite I found the old way and posted in the old ADS-L archives, but I'll re-post it for convenience. BEFORE THE CONVENTION.; GREAT CROWDS OUTSIDE THE HALL--A BUNGLING DISTRIBUTION OF TICKETS --THE ASSEMBLING OF THE DELEGATES--DEFECTS IN THE ARRANGEMENT OF THE HALL.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 20, 1888; pg. 1, 2 pgs EDITOR GRADY'S LETTER; WHAT HE FINDS OF INTEREST IN THE RUINED CITY.; Special Dispatch to THE POST., H. W. GRADY.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 5, 1886; pg. 5, 1 pgs The Latest Novelties.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 13, 1886; pg. 2, 1 pgs (_From the Atlanta Constitution_. You get it at the soda fountains. The mixer of cooling beverages pours out a glass of sweet milk, puts in a big spoonful of crushed ice, puts in a mixture of unknown ingredients, draws a bit of any desired sirup, shakes milk in a tin can, like a barkeeper mixes lemonade, sprinkles a little nutmeg on the foaming milk until it looks something like a Tom and Jerry, sits it out for you and you pay five cents. "Milk shake" is an Atlanta drink. Atlanta is nothing of not original.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM SCOOPER I checked for "scooper." "Ice cream scoop" is earlier, but I wanted to avoid a scoop of ice cream. 20 June 1954, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. S13, col. 4 ad: _New Home Dipper_ _for Ice Cream, Desserts_ Makes every meal more appetizing and decorative! A flick of the thumb and exclusive "pop-out" action neatly pops out perfectly rounded portions of ice cream, chopped meats, cottage cheese, other dishes. No muss or fuss with this professional type dipper. Super Scooper's all-aluminum construction stays shiny, cleans easily. A lightweight kitchen helper...makes handy gift. Guaranteed. Only $1 ppd. SIEBERT CO., 2230 South Union Ave., Chicago 16, Ill. From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Sat Apr 12 04:46:22 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:46:22 -0700 Subject: William S. Burroughs Quote on Language Message-ID: attributed to him, possibly a poem http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cantsin/homepage/writings/theory/language_viru s/language_a_virus_-_english.txt William S. Burroughs. Electronic Revolution. Expanded Media Edition, Bonn, 1982 Quark out Lower Umpqua Addictive Conundrum Institute From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 05:04:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:04:25 -0400 Subject: Monterey (Jack) Cheese (1912) Message-ID: The revised OED has 1912 for "Monterey cheese." Some Facts About Cheese; THERE ARE 245 VARIETIES MADE FROM THE MILK OF GOATS, COWS, SHEEP AND REINDEER.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 14, 1912; pg. M4, 1 pgs ...brick... ...Caciocavallo... ...Bellelay... ..."Tete de Moine" or Monk's Head"... Native American cheese are few and far between. The oldest of this class seems to be "Isigny," a cheese which originated about 30 years ago in attempts to imitate "Camembert" cheese. (...) "Jack" is a second native American cheese. It was first made in Monterey County, California, about a quarter of a century ago, and was then called "Monterey" cheese. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 05:19:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:19:24 -0400 Subject: Rabbit Food (1921, 1925) Message-ID: In the last post, I meant to say that the revised OED has _1918_ for "Monterey cheese." This is a little better for "rabbit food." AS A MAN "EATS," SO IS HE; New and Radical Discoveries in Food Values. Most People Are Overfed, Yet Starving. Wrong Feeding Is Cause of Most Diseases -- Eat Correctly and Become Well and Efficient.; By PHILANDER D. POSTON.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 15, 1925; pg. E5, 1 pgs ("Until recently, lettuce was looked upon as 'rabbit food'; tomatoes were considered so much water, or a dangerous acid which should be avoided;...") TO TRAVEL 9,000 MILES AT 87; Vancouver Man, Who Eats Food Raw, Will Make Trip Alone.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 26, 1921; pg. 25, 1 pgs ("He has found by past experience that dining car porters are not particularly sympathetic toward passengers who eschew all the costly viands and subsist on what Mr. Sharon terms 'rabbit food.'") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 06:15:46 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:15:46 -0400 Subject: Stir-fry (1956); Pot-Sticker (1979); Imperial Crab (1920,1934) Message-ID: STIR FRY Merriam-Webster has 1958 for "stir fry" and OED has 1959. Pop Everything Into the Skillet; Frozen French Fries With Fruited Pork Chops; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jan 31, 1963; pg. C14, 1 pgs Let's Swap Recipes; Chinese Specialty; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Apr 2, 1959; pg. C9, 1 pgs Would You Like to Learn How to Cook an Octopus?; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 5, 1956; pg. F14, 1 pgs ("Cooking. Put peanut oil in very hot skillet; add salt and garlic. Add squid. Stir fry squid roll up like balls.") --------------------------------------------------------------- POT-STICKER FOOD The Chinese Tea Lunch Comes to L.I.; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 6, 1980; pg. LI8, 1 pgs Hwei Ping; Richman on Restaurants; Phvllis C. Richman; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jan 14, 1979; pg. SM32, 2 pgs (Full text didn't come up--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- IMPERIAL CRAB/CRAB IMPERIAL The WASHINGTON POST has it much earlier than the NEW YORK TIMES, as expected. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 6, 1934; pg. 12, 1 pgs: HALL'S RESTAURANT AND GARDEN 7th and K Sts. S. W. (Since 1885) SUMMER SUGGESTIONS Soft Shell Crabs, Deviled Crabs, Crab Imperial, CLams, Beer, Liquor, Mixed Drinks Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 13, 1920; pg. 2, 1 pgs: HARVEY's 11th and Penna Ave. HAS SPECIAL TODAY Broiled Live Lobster Imperial Crabs Manhattan Crabs Fried Chicken, Maryland Style From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 07:04:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:04:06 -0400 Subject: Clams Casino (1916); White Pizza (1973); Shot Glass (1934) Message-ID: CLAMS CASINO CITY BULLETINS. j o *"o. 1; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 18, 1916; pg. 10, 1 pgs: _Harvey's Seafood Platter Today_, 12 to 3, 6 to 8:30, 50c Clams Casino, Crab Flakes Newburgh, Fried Oysters, Potato Salad and Slaw. Other seasonable delicacies. 11th and Pa. ave. (Sounds pretty good to me for fifty cents. I'd even tip a dime...This 1916 WASHINGTON POST cite really did the job. Here's what I'd posted in the archives: CLAMS CASINO--John Mariani cites Julius Keller's INNS AND OUTS with creating the "clams casino" in 1917. So how come it sounded new to the NEW YORK TIMES in 1943? --ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- WHITE PIZZA Making a Meal of Delicious Little Morsels; By Edith Vanocur; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1973; pg. K10, 1 pgs: _WHITE PIZZA_ _Per person_ 1 pizza bottom, or a half muffin, or Sahara bread split into rounds Olive oil Minced onions Minced Garlic Caraway seeds --------------------------------------------------------------- SHOT GLASS What's What in the Wine Glass Question; Diners Must Learn to Distinguish Them by Their Size and Shape; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1934; pg. A12, 1 pgs: Whisky glasses remain the small straight little "shot glasses" they always have been. They may have a deep false bottom, but nothing, of course, so effete as a stem. Tom Collins glasses, or glasses for whiskey and soda, are also tall, straight and large. (GLASS IN PHOTO CAPTION: Super Highball, Tall Whiskey Shaker, Cut-dot beer goblet, Hollow stem Champagne, Rhine wine, Brandy inhaler, Old fashion toddy glass, White wines, Sauterne, Claret, Sherry, Hollow-stem liqueur, Cocktail, Claret) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 08:39:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 04:39:43 -0400 Subject: Chipotle (1950); Chicken Tetrazzini (1928); Butternut Squash (1944) Message-ID: CHIPOTLE Just to give you a target, the OED's draft entry for _chipotle_ has a first cite from 1952. Jesse Sheidlower OED Display Ad 69 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 12, 1950; pg. 14, 1 pgs: BLOOMINGDALE'S DELICACIES SHOP, 59th Street near Lexington Ave. _From Mexico:_ Gay basket holds a whole tinned pineapple, strawberries, hot chile sauce, wild flower honey, liquid mole sauce, toasted chipotle chile in Daube sauce 7.50 --------------------------------------------------------------- CHICKEN TETRAZZINI Favorite Recipes Of New York Chefs; Emince of Breast of Chicken Tetrazzini; By THEODORE LA MANNA. (Chef, Hotel Woodward); The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 8, 1928; pg. SM8, 1 pgs: Mix two parts of shredded breast of chicken previously roasted or boiled, with one part of cooked spaghetti cut about 1 1/2 inches long and enough cream sauce to make the mixture about as thick as chicken hash. Season well with salt, pepper, a little grated nutmeg and grated Parmesan cheese. Place in a deep dish and sprinkle the surface with Parmesan cheese and small pieces of butter. Brown in the oven and serve hot. --------------------------------------------------------------- BUTTERNUT SQUASH It's a tad earlier in the WASHINGTON POST. Display Ad 44 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 9, 1944; pg. X10, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 5, 1944; pg. M5, 1 pgs: ...Butternut squash... Max Schling Seedsmen, Inc. Dept. N 618 Madison Ave., New York, 22, N. Y. --------------------------------------------------------------- GARLIC SALT The first citation (1916) might not be right. There appears to be a "garlic salt" gap until the early 1930s: 1. Fish Tails . .; Tilghman Fisherman's Guide Association.; By Francis P. Leithiser.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 23, 1933; pg. 18, 1 pgs 2. The Homemaker; By NANCY CAREY; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 17, 1932; pg. 8, 1 pgs 3. BEST LENTEN MENU GIVEN POST AWARD; Miss Kerfoot's Recipe Is Appetizing and Easily Prepared.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 27, 1932; pg. 10, 1 pgs 4. Drying Process Makes Vegetables Better; Removing Water Without Cooking Them, and Soaking in Water, Improves Quality, Say Developers of American Method; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 24, 1916; pg. SM12, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- NEAR BEAR OED has 1909. NEW DWELLING IS SOLD.; L.L. Burns Disposes of Property at 1439 G Street Northeast.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1908; pg. 10, 1 pgs: _"NEAR BEAR"_ _Under Ban._ _Atlanta Prohibits Its Sale to Minors and Cuts Out Free Lunch._ (...) ...so called "near bear," a beverage containing less than 2 per cent alcohol, which has been on sale since the prohibition law went into effect. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 9, 1898; pg. 5, 1 pgs (I didn't see anything close in this Classified Ad jumble, but you can try to ruin your eyes and be my guest--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- BLACKOUT CAKE I'm looking for any date for this. "BLACKOUT CAKE" is in the following Waldbaum's supermarket ad: Display Ad 66 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 4, 1968; pg. 43, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 09:54:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:54:13 -0400 Subject: Sun-Dried Tomatoes (1981); Chicken Kieff (1938,1939); Crepes Suzette (1895) Message-ID: SUN-DRIED TOMATOES Flashes in the Pan; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 4, 1981; pg. K1, 1 pgs ("The tomato, over the centuries, has been back and forth across the Atlantic to seek favor. Now, with most of the year offering only pale tomato facsimiles, we turn to Italy again. Sun-dried tomatoes, preserved in olive oil, were the flashy immigrants in posh food stores last year, so much so that the supplies ran out. Now Suzanne's has them again, and we would be surprised if other stores didn't follow. Their concentrated tomato flavor would compensate for winter's missing tomato-ness in recipes, but given their price--$7.20 for 10 ounces--and their deliciousness as is or layered on bread, they are better as a focus than as a flavoring.") ENTERTAIN: Menus for The Heart; By Susan Dooley; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 9, 1981; pg. C5, 1 pgs (Only a summary available--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CHICKEN A LA KIEFF I traveled to the Ukraine for this, but it didn't help. I have earlier, but maybe this chef invented it? 1. Five High School Girls Win Prizes; Serve It Forth: Cutlets de Volaille, Muscovite As Served at Russian Troika; By Martha Ellyn. The Post Food Editor; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 1, 1939; pg. 1, 2 pgs ("Chef Feodor Karakos was 'kidnaped' by Helen Hamilton from the Maisonette Russe, St. Regis Hotel, New York City, and brought to Washington to insure the most excellent in Russian food. Chef Feodor formerly presided over the food at the famous Opera Club, Chicago. This famous chef is an artist with foods. (...) He says that four of his specialties which are extremely popular are--Breast of Chicken a la Kieff (boned breast of chicken with butter stuffing); Cutlet de Volaille. Muscovite (boned breast of chicken stuffed with mushroom dressing)...Caucasian Shashlik en Brochet...Flaming Beef. Strogonoff.") 2. News of Capital Night Clubs; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 31, 1939; pg. 22, 1 pgs 3. News of Capital Night Clubs; By Mary Harris; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 26, 1938; pg. X16, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- CREPES SUZETTE 4. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 10, 1898; pg. 7, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 23, 1895; pg. 7, 1 pgs 6. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 16, 1895; pg. 7, 1 pgs: WODWARD & LOTHROP The following weaves are among the most fashionable: _Crepe Suzette_, In all evening shades 85c per yd. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 10:34:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:34:55 -0400 Subject: Veal Orloff (1958); Veal Oscar (1967); Steak Diane (1948) Message-ID: VEAL ORLOFF Not in OED. Display Ad 50 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Jun 6, 1958; pg. C14, 1 pgs: State Dinner of the Pan American Union honoring President Theodor Heuss of Germany (...) Saddle of Veal Orloff --------------------------------------------------------------- VEAL OSCAR Not in OED. Display Ad 221 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 4, 1967; pg. E19, 1 pgs: VEAL OSCAR STEAK DIANE _Les Ambassadeurs_ 1737 DeSales St. NW --------------------------------------------------------------- STEAK DIANE In OED! The first citation is the 1957 GOURMET COOKBOOK. Steak Worthy Of the Name; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 25, 1953; pg. SM32, 2 pgs Gotham's Famed Chefs Cook for Food Editors; Food Editors Dine on Gay Nineties Fare; By Lucia Brown; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 1, 1948; pg. C1, 2 pgs: EARLIER in the week, a smaller group of us was entertained at a gourmet dinner hosted by a baby food company in the Drake Room on 56th st. at Park ave. This is a spot that has become famous among New Yorkers for its buffet luncheons, as well as for such dishes as steak Diane. This was made for us by Nino, the maitre d'hotel, who created the dish and named it for his small daughter. Display Ad 22 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 9, 1936; pg. S8, 1 pgs (It's NOT here! Mis-read of "steak dinner"--ed.) From einstein at FROGNET.NET Sat Apr 12 12:38:30 2003 From: einstein at FROGNET.NET (David Bergdahl) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:38:30 -0400 Subject: Leo Rosten died (in 1997) Message-ID: My bad! My wife's cousin passed this on & I thought the death was more recent... From pds at VISI.COM Sat Apr 12 16:19:59 2003 From: pds at VISI.COM (Tom Kysilko) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:19:59 -0500 Subject: Twin Cities = Mpls/St Paul (1886) Message-ID: Two years ago, James A. Landau asked: >Does anybody know when Minneapolis and St. Paul first used the designation >"Twin Cities"? At that time, the earliest I could find in the UMich Making of America database was 1891 for Mpls/St Paul, with references to other pairs of cities going back to 1858. I suggested that the St. Paul Pioneer Press might be fruitful. Two days recently at the Minnesota Historical Society Library dashed that hope, and gave me renewed admiration for the kind of thing Barry does. An evenings work got me through only three months of the SPPP on microfilm, and that was with a considerable amount of skimming. No Twin Cites in 12/88 - 2/89. However, the R. L. Polk City Directory for St. Paul proved more helpful. 1888: full page ad on p. 184. "St. Paul & Duluth / Railroad / The shortest Line in Distance to / Lake Superior / . . . / The "Limited" runs daily, and consumes only five hours between the Twin Cities and Duluth, making but three stops en route." [The SP&D ads for 1879-1887 do not use "Twin Cities".] 1886: alphabetical listing on p. 953. "Twin Cities Street Improvement Co. George W Cross pres, Wm Crooks sec and treas, 44 Gilfillan blk." [I found no alphabetical listings for Twin Cities anything in 1879-1885 Directories.] This date is surely beatable. I would suggest 1872, the year Mpls annexed the Village of St Anthony on the east side of the Mississippi, as a terminus a quo. Before then, if Twin Cities can be found in this region at all, it is more likely to refer to Mpls/St Anthony. Tom Kysilko Practical Data Services pds at visi.com Saint Paul MN USA From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 19:45:17 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:45:17 EDT Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: The _Report of the Commissioner of Patents for the Year 1859_ (printed in Washington DC in 1860) has several articles on varieties of wine grapes in the US and territories. Unfortunately some of names giver are nonce names, as the writer admitted he could not find a local name so he just used the name of the area he found the grape. I will merely list the names; if a listmember finds one to be of interest I'll be happy to quote the context. Page 32 Mountain, Red River, Washita Page 34 muscadine, Scuppernong Page 35 Mustang, Catawba, Pineau, Gamay Page 36 Chickasaw (plum) Page 38 muscatel Page 40 pasas (Mexican raisins) Page 43 Catawba, Isabella, Scuppernong, Clinton, Bartlett, Petit Noir, Hardford Prolific, Henshaw, Amber, Concord Page 44 Sage Page 45 Traminer Page 47 Sweet-water, Bull's Concord Page 48 Dracut Page 49 Isabella Page 53 "Adelia, or Petit Noir" Page 57 Harding's Sweet-water Page 63 Crystal Page 81 Diana, Delaware, Isabella, Catawba, Case's Crystal Page 84 Trollinger, Gutedel, Elbing, Traminer Barry Popik's earliest citation for "blush wine" is 1984. Is the following a synonym? "Making schiller wine.---This name signifies a particular color of the wine, varying from one hue to another, and to be called niether white, yellor, nor red. Grapes of all colors are used in making this wine; they are mashed by putting the mill on the top of the vat, and the husks put in it, and fermented together with the must. When they are all mashed, or one vat is filled, the false or fermienting bottom is set in, to keep the husks under the must, and the head and other fixtures put on. The fermenting of schiller wine ttakes a longer time and is more stormy than white or claret wines; but this is stronger, more fiery, and aromatic, than either." (pp 89-90) Also of note: (page 48) "the Sage grape of Concord---a native of the wwoods of that town. Cultivated by R. W. Emerson." The writer Emerson? - Jim Landau From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Sat Apr 12 20:19:22 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:19:22 -0400 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: > > Also of note: (page 48) "the Sage grape of Concord---a native of the wwoods > of that town. Cultivated by R. W. Emerson." The writer Emerson? > Presumably. Emerson was "the Sage of Concord" after all. I would guess this is what we now know as the "Concord" grape, but I don't know anything about grapes so that's ONLY a guess... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 21:22:24 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:22:24 -0400 Subject: Chief Cook and Bottle Washer (1807,1818,1836,1840) Message-ID: John Mariani's ENYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK has "chief cook and bottle washer" from 1840. (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES) Sedgwick, Catharine Maria. "Letter from Catharine Maria Sedgwick to Robert Sedgwick, July 08, 1818" [Page 106 | Paragraph | Section | Document] of a preparation of dinner for a brace of clergymen and their wives, who had just come in upon us. You may imagine it produced some confusion of ideas. The roar of the cataract of Niagara and the stirring of a custard; the sweet image of les belles soeurs and the heaven-forsaken visage of my chief cook and bottle-washer; the rush of thoughts occasioned by the arrival of the fair foreigner, and the sedative of Cousin Mary White's monotonous looks and voice; the glowing image of Margaret; the sweet, maternal tones of our dear Jenny's sweet voice; Harry's `cooing noises,' and the ringing of plates, and Results Bibliography Sedgwick, Catharine Maria, 1789-1867, Letter from Catharine Maria Sedgwick to Robert Sedgwick, July 08, 1818, in Life and Letters of Catherine M. Sedgwick. Dewey, Mary E.. New York, NY: Harper & Row, 1871, pp. 446. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [7-8-1818] S75-D027 (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) American Turf Register and Sporting Magazine (1829-1844), New York; Jul 1836; Vol. 7, Iss. 11 The life and adventures of Pete; T C F; pg. 496, 5 pgs Pg. 497: He was constantly seen in the thickest of the crowd: "chief cook and bottle washer." (LITERATURE ONLINE) 1. Ioor, William [Author Record] The Battle Of The Eutaw Springs (1807) 205Kb THE BATTLE OF THE EUTAW SPRINGS, AND EVACUATION OF CHARLESTON; OR THE GLORIOUS 14th OF DECEMBER, 1782. A NATIONAL DRAMA, IN FIVE ACTS. 203Kb Found 2 hit: Main text 199Kb ACT V. 33Kb Scene 18Kb ...Oliver Matthew Queerfish, esquire; chief cook and bottle washer to his... ...Queerfish, esquire; chief cook and bottle washer to his august majesty... 2. Lindsley, A. B. (Abraham B.) [Author Record] Love And Friendship; Or, Yankee Notions (1809) 148Kb LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP; OR, YANKEE NOTIONS: A COMEDY, IN THREE ACTS. 147Kb Found 2 hit: Main text 144Kb ACT II. 49Kb SCENE IV 16Kb ...[Stage direction] Why sometimes I acts cook, steward, cabin boy, sailor, mate,... ...cabin boy, sailor, mate, and bottle washer, for matter 'f that,... 1. Fay, Theodore S. (Theodore Sedgwick), 1807-1898 [Author Record] The Countess Ida: A Tale of Berlin . . . Volume 1 (1840) 600Kb The Countess Ida: A Tale of Berlin . . . Volume 1 597Kb Found 2 hit Main text 592Kb CHAPTER XXI. 17Kb ...he's our right-hand man---our chief cook and bottle-washer; and, what's very... ...right-hand man---our chief cook and bottle-washer; and, what's very remarkable, too,... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 12 23:07:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:07:20 -0400 Subject: Cranshaw/Crenshaw (1940, 1956); Mirepoix (1867) Message-ID: CRANSHAW/CRENSHAW Not in OED?...Obviously, the LOS ANGELES TIMES will have this earlier. A little something for readers in California and Oregon to chew on. Food News of the Week; Rise in Pork, Beef and Lamb Prices Laid to Recent Slump in Producers' Profits; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 9, 1940; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("A brand new kind of melon, the Cranshaw from San Francisco, made its debut this week in New York. It is a cross between a casaba and a Persian, with a yellowish pink meat and an unusually sweet flavor. It has a smooth, green skin.") PROSPECTS FOR A MELON CROP; Experts in Different Climatic Regions of the Country Agree That Success Depends on Adaptable Varieties; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 27, 1956; pg. 137, 1 pgs ("In Oregon in particular there are two principal regions where melons do well enough to warrant planting the shipper varieties such as Hale's Best, Heart of Gold and Crenshaw, as well as those suited to local use only.") 'WHAT'S IN A NAME--'; Improved Qualities of Modern Varieties Defeat the Magic of Old Favorites; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 12, 1956; pg. X39, 1 pgs ("Delicious 31 and Iroquois are delicious melons to grow in the Northeast, Crenshaw with pink flesh and a soft rind that defies shipping is a gourmet's delight on the West Coast.") (WORLDCAT database) Whitewashing Crenshaw and cantaloup melons to reduce solar injury / Author: Lipton, Werner J., 1928- Publication: Washington, D.C. : Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, 1975 Document: English : Book --------------------------------------------------------------- MIREPOIX The revised OED has 1877 for "Mirepoix." It's named after a Frenchman. Now called "Diced Carrots, Onions, Celery and Herbs of Freedom." The Galaxy. A Magazine of Entertaining Reading (1866-1878), New York; Apr 1, 1867, Iss. 0 MODERN AND MEDIAEVAL DINNERS.; PIERRE BLOT.; pg. 717, 7 pgs Pg. ?: ...pigeons a la Mirepoix;... From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 02:34:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:34:06 -0400 Subject: Earl Grey Tea (1894,1934); Darjeeling Tea (1948); Marie Biscuit (1907) Message-ID: EARL GREY TEA Not in OED, but British and in FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; Jun 1894; Vol. Volume XV, Iss. 0 Chief Cooks of Royalty.; Souereigns at Dinner Pittsburg Leader ; pg. 553, 2 pgs Pg. 554: ...tea of a peculiar kind, known as Earl Grey's mixture, forming her majesty's beverage at that meal. Display Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 24, 1934; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("Earl Grey Tea, l lb. tin, 1.90") --------------------------------------------------------------- DARJEELING TEA Display Ad 84 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 5, 1948; pg. SM22, 1 pgs (DARJEELING TEA...8-oz. pkg. 1.25") --------------------------------------------------------------- MARIE BISCUIT I've seen "Marie biscuits" in many brands and in many countries, yet it's not in the OED or in my food books. In the 1948 "Darjeeling tea" citation above, Huntley & Palmer Biscuits "Sweet Marie" is also advertised. In the following citation, "Huntley & Palmer Biscuits" also are advertised, but "Marie Biscuits is advertised separately. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 26, 1907; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Marie Biscuits") --------------------------------------------------------------- GENOISE Merriam-Webster has 1931 for "genoise." OED has no entry. I'll do more work on this. THE TOURNEY OF THE CHEFS; ARTISTIC NEW YEAR FEASTS SPREAD BY THE BIG HOTELS. ELABORATE DISHES TO TEMPT THE PALATE AND DISTURB THE DIGESTION -- CROWDS VIEWED THEM, BUT THE WISE STOPPED WITH THE AESTHETIC PLEASURE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1893; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("Genoise montee" is on the January 2nd menu--in French--of the Hoffman House--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 00:34:29 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 20:34:29 -0400 Subject: Casaba melon (1855,1883,1885); Persian melon (1823,1872,1926) Message-ID: CASABA MELON Merriam-Webster has 1889 for "casaba." OED has no "casaba" entry. OED has one 1916 "casaba" mention in its "honeydew" entry. Just miserable on food. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Title: Harper's statistical gazetteer of the world / by J. Calvin Smith ; Illustrated by seven maps. Publication date: 1855. Pg. 346: CASABA, or CASSABA, two towns of Asia Minor. (...) It is renowned for its pears & melons, which, with cotton & cotton manufs. compose its princ. exports. 21 October 1883, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 5 (describing a California ranch): ...his melon patches would make all the small boys of Missouri swoon at the sight of the varied watermelons and muskmelons, the net melons, spoon melons, casabas, and citrons that roll over the rich brown earth. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL) Madge's Second Venture, by Mary Morrison: pp. 180-181 p. 180 2 matches of 'melon*' in: Title: The American missionary. / Volume 39, Issue 6 Publisher: American Missionary Association. Publication Date: June 1885 Pg. 180: Yesterday Madge has some cassaba melon seed sent her from Smyrna... --------------------------------------------------------------- PERSIAN MELON Not in OED? 1. PRODUCE MARKETS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 17, 1926; pg. 34, 1 pgs 2. Sugar-Making from Melons.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 3, 1872; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("The cantaleup and Persian melon yield more sugar, but require most care and cost in manipulation.") (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The American Farmer, Containing Original Essays and Selections on Rural Economy and Internal Improvements, with Illustrative Engravings and Prices Current of County Produce (1819-1834), Baltimore; Feb 14, 1823; Vol. 4, Iss. 47 A new method of preserving vines from bugs; Anonymous; pg. 374, 2 pgs Pg. 374 (Letter writer for West Chester Cy., N. Y.): I enclose a few Musk melon seeds, of a kind much superior to any I have ever met with. We received the seeds by the name of _Persian melon_. Its size is large, and its flavor delicious. It is, however, rather late in ripening. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 14:38:35 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:38:35 EDT Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: In a message dated 4/12/03 4:18:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM writes: > Presumably. Emerson was "the Sage of Concord" after all. I would guess this > is what we now know as the "Concord" grape, but I don't know anything about > grapes so that's ONLY a guess... Afraid it was a bad guess. Page 66 "No. 22. _Vitis labrusca._, the original Concord grape, a seedling from the _Vitis labrusca._---This vine is now fifteen years old, and has borne regularly for seven years. The owner and propagaotr, Hon. E. W. Bull, of Concord, Massachusetts, deserves much credit for the introduction of the highly valuable grape. Its character consists of the following points: berries over medium size, oval, of a dark-blue color, thin skin, juicy, and of an agreeable wine taste; good for the table and wine making; it ripens about the middle of September No. 25. _Vitis labrusca._ Sage grape, a red-brown wild native grape, found in the woods some years ago by Mr. Sage, and transplanted by Mr. R. W. Emerson, of Concord, massachusetts, on the south side of his house. berries of uncommonly large size, three berries weighing an ounce; round and tolerably sweet; ripens early in September." Also, page 129, discussing agriculture around Naples (then a kingdom): "a grape called Wafrancola is spoken highly of, with a strawberry flavor and coarse leaf, not subject to mildew." - Jim Landau From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Sun Apr 13 19:08:09 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:08:09 -0400 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 Message-ID: > > > Presumably. Emerson was "the Sage of Concord" after all. I would guess this > > is what we now know as the "Concord" grape, but I don't know anything about > > grapes so that's ONLY a guess... > > Afraid it was a bad guess. > Oh, well, diffierent grape -- but it must be the same Emerson, right? How many RW Emerson's could there have been in Concord in the 1840's? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 22:19:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:19:27 -0400 Subject: Seven-Minute Icing (1927) Message-ID: Once again, the online WASHINGTON POST comes through. It's better than the NEW YORK TIMES, and the CHICAGO TRIBUNE and LOS ANGELES TIMES will both be better still. These tools are incredible. Seven-minute icing? Not six minutes? Not eight minutes? Well, that's just what it's called. Check the Google hits yourself, minute by minute. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 11, 1927; pg. 10, 1 pgs: _Seven Minute Icing_ 3/4 cup sugar 1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar or baking powder 1 egg 3 tablespoons water 1/2 teaspoon vanilla Place all ingredients in top part of doible broiler, having water in lower part boiling. Beat together until thick enough to spread. Add vanilla. _Precaution_--Have fine sugar or melt it in water before adding egg. (...) Crisco is used by Mrs. Lilla Pauline Cross in The Washington Post Cooking School CRISCO From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 22:54:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:54:15 -0400 Subject: Twin Cities (1883, 1884) Message-ID: Got to do something for those MN readers. I don't know if the next volume of DARE will have anything. MINNEAPOLIS AND ST. PAUL; A SPIRITED RIVALRY BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES. A NEW-YORKER'S OBSERVATIONS--THE LOCAL DIRECTORIES QUESTIONED--HOTELS AND PUBLIC BUILDINGS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 28, 1884; pg. 5, 1 pgs IN THE GREAT NORTH-WEST; BITTER RIVALRY OF THE TWIN CITIES OF MINNESOTA. UNIQUE EXPERIENCE OF THE VILLARD EXCURSIONISTS--NEW-YORK CONCEIT OBLITERATED BUT BOSTONIANS SERENE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1883; pg. 9, 1 pgs From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Sun Apr 13 23:01:31 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:01:31 -0400 Subject: "XXX makes the Baby Jesus Cry" Message-ID: So, where did this phrase come from? Does it predate the Simpsons? The Simpsons usually just mirror things that existed. In a current thread over at the Straight Dope a poster just said that her Catholic father knew it from the 1940's or 50's. I'm skeptical. Any help here? She suggested it was Southern. I'm still skeptical. --Sam Clements From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 23:08:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:08:15 -0400 Subject: Bottle Opener (1891,1896); Can Opener (1864); Citrus Zester/Peeler (1982) Message-ID: BOTTLE OPENER Display Ad 55 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 1, 1901; pg. 28, 1 pgs Display Ad 20 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 7, 1899; pg. 17, 1 pgs Article 14 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 31, 1896; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("A Kentucky man has patented a new bottle opener. We have always understood that the Kentucky bottle, like Kentucky hospitality, is always open.") DID HE STRIKE TO KILL; Trial of Joseph Fielden, the Wellknown Lightweight.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1891; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("While at the bar witness had picked up a wine bottle opener and had remarked to Mr. Humphrey that it would be a dangerous thing to hit a man with...") --------------------------------------------------------------- CAN OPENER OED has 1877 for "can opener." The BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE went crazy on this one, with over 2000 hits, mostly for "eye opener." Classified Ad 24 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 28, 1864; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Can openers") --------------------------------------------------------------- CITRUS ZESTER, CITRUS PEELER Display Ad 81 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 30, 1982; pg. TG24, 1 pgs: ...Henckels 4-star cutlery... The set (a $32 value) includes: corkscrew, citrus zester, bottle opener, bar spoon and citrus peeler. (...) MACY'S THE CELLAR From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 23:21:50 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:21:50 -0400 Subject: Senegalese Soup (1957) (Sinhalese-Sri Lanka?) Message-ID: Jean Anderson's AMERICAN CENTURY COOKBOOK, pg. 63, writes about "Senegalese Soup." It's a curried soup, and it has been speculated that it comes from Sri Lanka and is really "Sinhalese Soup." So I immediately flew to Sri Lanka...and never found it on a menu. The earliest citations don't give us any clue, but include the recipes: Food News; A 3-Course Meal in 30 Minutes; By NAN ICKERINGILL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 15, 1965; pg. 22, 1 pgs ("HOT SENEGALESE SOUP") Seasonal Fresh Fruits Complement Many Curry Dishes; Melons or Mangoes Offer Contrast to Spices ; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 23, 1962; pg. 32, 1 pgs ("There is a recipe for a cold Senegalese soup, which is a sort of curried vichyssoise.") Food News: Festive Meal Easily Made; NEW YEAR'S DAY DINNER; BY JUNE OWEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1957; pg. 22, 1 pgs (QUICK SENEGALESE SOUP) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 13 23:57:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:57:01 -0400 Subject: Eggs Benedict (1912); Eggs Florentine (1910) Message-ID: EGGS BENEDICT Once again, the WASHINGTON POST comes through with better detail of New York cuisine than the NEW YORK TIMES. OED has 1898 for "Eggs Benedict," but this gives an explanation of the place of origin. FACTS AND FANCIES IN WOMAN'S WORLD; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 6, 1912; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("At the old Hoffman House they made a combination of a tomato, peeled and scooped out and filled with a bearnaise baked and served with a bearnaise sauce. This was called eggs Benedict, and was famous with epicures.") --------------------------------------------------------------- EGGS FLORENTINE OED has 1747 (Hannah Glasse cookbook), then 1911 for "Florentine." The latter citation is its first for "eggs Florentine." Display Ad 81 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 9, 1919; pg. 22, 1 pgs Display Ad 30 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 10, 1914; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 22, 1910; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Eggs Florentine" is served in Macy's Thanksgiving Dinner--ed.) Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 25, 1904; pg. 16, 1 pgs ("Tenderloin of Beef a la Florentine" is served on the Christmas menu of The Famous Carlos, 25 West 24th Street--ed.) EUROPE AT HALF RATES; Valuable Advice for Americans Who Are Going Abroad.; MISS STALNAKER.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 24, 1896; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("...veal a la Florentine...") FINE DINNERS IN NEW-YORK.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 10, 1895; pg. 21, 1 pgs (This is a large article with lots on menus, mostly in French. "Poires a la Florentine" is on the December 1871 menu of Delmonico--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 00:32:32 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:32:32 -0400 Subject: Chef's Salad (1929); House Salad (1967); House Wine (1964) Message-ID: CHEF'S SALAD See the ADS-L archives for 1930s "chef salad" citations. Today's Menu; By Alice Clayton. The Post Food Editor.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 13, 1939; pg. 11, 1 pgs Week-End Menus; By Alice Clayton. The Foit food Editor.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 17, 1938; pg. X13, 1 pgs Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 14, 1935; pg. SF2, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 11, 1933; pg. 6, 1 pgs Display Ad 63 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1930; pg. 26, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 18, 1929; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Special Chef Salad" is offered at Gimbels--ed.) Display Ad 30 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 29, 1929; pg. 6, 1 pgs: Chef Salad (...) GIMBELS BROADWAY at 33rd STREET --------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSE SALAD There are earlier hits, such as "White House Salad," but they weren't what I was looking for. Directory to Dining; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1967; pg. 42, 1 pgs ("The food is good, be it a bracciole of chicken salad, any of numerous veal dishes, the bread or the house salad.") --------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSE WINE OED has 1973 for "house wine." Again, there are many irrelevant hits. Jack's Lives Up to Its Billing on Coast; Service and Ambiance Are Cosmopolitan -- Kan's Also Good; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE, Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 8, 1964; pg. 24, 1 pgs ("Even the house wine by the glass has a desirable savor.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 00:48:10 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:48:10 -0400 Subject: Clamato (1956, 1957) Message-ID: Clamato=clam juice + tomato juice. Perhaps useful to anyone studying the tomato. I was looking for "house salad" when I found an early citation, before the trademarked product. Display Ad 193 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 12, 1956; pg. 39, 1 pgs: _You saw them first in Esquire_ The Clamato Cocktail, Chilled Avocado Soup, Short-Cut Vichyssoise. Word Mark CLAMATO Goods and Services IC 032. US 046. G & S: MIXTURE OF TOMATO JUICE AND CLAM JUICE. FIRST USE: 19571030. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19571112 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72040657 Filing Date November 14, 1957 Registration Number 0699486 Registration Date June 14, 1960 Owner (REGISTRANT) CAPE COD COOKS, INC. CORPORATION MASSACHUSETTS SANDWICH MASSACHUSETTS (LAST LISTED OWNER) CBI HOLDINGS INC CORPORATION BY ASSIGNMENT DELAWARE PO BOX 3800 HIGH RIDGE PARK STAMFORD CONNECTICUT 069050800 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record ALBERT ROBIN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECTION 8(10-YR) 20020110. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 20020110 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark CLAMATO Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 032. US 045 046 048. G & S: Mixture of tomato juice and clam juice. FIRST USE: 19571030. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19571112 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 78056475 Filing Date April 3, 2001 Owner (APPLICANT) Mott's Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 6 High Ridge Park P.O. Box 3800 Stamford CONNECTICUT 069050800 Attorney of Record Albert Robin Prior Registrations 0699486;2104130;2273388 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date February 1, 2002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 02:36:31 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:36:31 -0400 Subject: Rock Cornish (1952); Blushing Bunny (1922,1936); Crabmeat Norfolk (1963) Message-ID: ROCK CORNISH GAME HENS Not in OED. I was surprised that the NEW YORK TIMES beat the WASHINGTON POST--with an ad for the "Maryland Market," no less. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Dec 15, 1955; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("ROCK CORNISH GAME HENS" is sold by Larimer's, 1727 Connecticut Ave., NW--ed.) Display Ad 23 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 10, 1954; pg. 22, 1 pgs: Squab Broilers.....$1.25 each Rock Cornish Hens..$1.59 each THE MARYLAND MARKET 412 Amsterdam Avenue Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 5, 1954; pg. 13, 1 pgs News of Food; Old World Cuisine and Service Offered in Handsome Modern Setting at Baccara ; By JUNE OWEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 2, 1952; pg. 20, 1 pgs ("There is also Rock Cornish hen stuffed with wild rice and foie gras and cooked in a sweet-sour sauce of mustard and white grapes.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BLUSHING BUNNY I've posted "Blushing Bunny" all the way to 1931. It's supposed to be a regional dish, traced to New York State, but where? Perhaps here's a clue. Is "blushing bunny" in David Barnhart territory? NOTES FOR THE TRAVELER; Thoughts of Tourists Turn to the Americas--Cotton Fete-Trips by Air Increase; By DIANA RICE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 27, 1938; pg. 154, 1 pgs ("New York's Blushing Bunny"--ed.) MISCELLANEOUS RECIPES; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 29, 1936; pg. FCR8, 1 pgs ("BLUSHING BUNNY" recipe--ed.) Classified Ad 123 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 15, 1922; pg. 111, 1 pgs ("Two small houses, over 100 years old; one known as 'The Blushing Bunny Inn,'... ...two miles from Hopewell Junction, Dutchess County, N. Y., and sixteen miles from Poughkeepsie, N. Y."--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CRABMEAT NORFOLK This is a little late for this regional dish. The NEW YORK TIMES is useless for a dish like this. 1. Display Ad 82 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jan 2, 1976; pg. D11, 1 pgs 2. Display Ad 40 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 30, 1975; pg. C5, 1 pgs 3. Display Ad 64 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 26, 1975; pg. B15, 1 pgs 4. Display Ad 74 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Nov 28, 1975; pg. C9, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 82 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Nov 12, 1975; pg. 44, 1 pgs 6. What's Doing in ANNAPOLIS; By MARJORIE HUNTER; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 7, 1975; pg. 9, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 141 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jul 12, 1964; pg. C6, 1 pgs 8. Here's Some Bacon at $6.49 a Slice; By John Pagones; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 22, 1963; pg. C9, 1 pgs ("Crabmeat Norfolk") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 03:37:26 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:37:26 -0400 Subject: Fat Farm (1968); Fat City (1961) Message-ID: FAT FARM The RHHDAS has 1969 for "fat farm." Very Interesting People; Observers Wonder If They Really Have Rusk Tied Up; By Maxine Cheshire; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jan 14, 1968; pg. G3, 1 pgs: _Skimming Off the Fat_ (...) Now, Toni Hatfield thinks she would like to open a less expensive kind of "fat farm" outside Washington. --------------------------------------------------------------- FAT CITY The RHHDAS has 1964 for "fat city." Ducks, Assigned to Rural Life, Come Out of the Wilds to the White House; By Thomas Wolfe Staff Reporter; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Apr 13, 1961; pg. A1, 1 pgs ("'Wow, this is Easy Street in a fat city,' said a white Peking Duckling, lying back maharajah-style.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 04:35:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:35:44 -0400 Subject: Ratatouille (1855, 1868, 1870) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster have 1877 for "ratatouille." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Roussel, Napoleon, 1805-1878. Title: Catholic & protestant nations compared, in their threefold relations to wealth, knowledge, & morality. By Rev. Napoleon Roussell [!] ...with an introd. by the Hon. & Rev. Baptiste Noel... Publication date: 1855. Page 13 - 1 term matching "ratatou*" ("It is useless to speak of the odious '_ratatouilles_' that are set before you there.") Author: Spiers, Alexander, 1807-1869. Title: Spiers and Surenne's French and English pronouncing dictionary. Newly composed from the French dictionaries of the French academy, Laveaux, Boiste, Bescherelle, Landais, etc., and from the English dictionaries of Johnson, Webster, Worcester, Richardson, etc. ... By A. Spiers ... Carefully rev., cor., and enl., with the pronunciation ... according to the system of Surenne's Pronouncing dictionary ... by G. P. Quackenbos, A. M. Publication date: 1870. Page 514 - 1 term matching "ratatou*" ("RATATOUILLE...(stew of meat and vegetables).") 5 October 1868, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 4: There was a detachment of French infantry at La Soledad, whose cheerful bugles were summoning the wearers of about two hundred pairs of red trousers to the evening repast, of which "ratatouille," a kind of gipsy stew, forms the staple ingredient. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 06:02:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:02:20 -0400 Subject: Maine's "Coot Stew," "Flip" (1938); Demon Rum (1845,1854) Message-ID: TRENDING INTO MAINE by Kenneth Roberts Boston: Little, Brown and Company 1938 Great read for "coot stew" and "ketchup," too. OED has "flip" from 1695, but this is still worthwhile. Pg. 143 (Chapter 7): _A Maine Kitchen_ Pg. 144: ...it's not to be compared with a Maine cunner, cod or haddock chowder, made with salt pork and common-crackers. Pg. 144: Ah me! Those Saturday night dinners of baked beans, brown bread, cottage cheese, Grandma's ketchup; and for a grand finale, chocolate custards! Pg. 147: Ketchup is an important adjunct to many Maine dishes, particularly in families whose manner of cooking comes down to them from seafaring ancestors. Pg. 148: Such was the passion for my grandmother's ketchup in my own family that we could never get enough of it. We were allowed to have it on beans, fish cakes and hash, since those dishes were acknowledged to be incomplete without them; but when we went so far as to demand it on bread, as we often did, we were peremptorily refused, and had to go down in the cellar and steal it--which we also often did. (Long recipe for Maine ketchup on page 149 will be typed on request--ed.) Pg. 153: My grandmother's beans were prepared like this... (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 154: The hash trick was simpler. (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 154: Mystery has risen like a fog around Maine fish chowder. (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 156: The first step in making chocolate custards is to buy two or three dozen glass goblets--the sort shaped like large egg-cups. (I'll type it on request--ed.) Pg. 158: A coot, of course, is crazy, as is shown by the expression, "As crazy as a coot"; so if a gunner moves up on a flock while it is under water, and ceases to move when the flock, with military precision, reappears on the surface, no suspicion of evil ever enters the minds of his quarry. Pg. 159: There's an old, old recipe in Maine for stewing coot; and that recipe, I suspect, originated in the dim, dim past, probably with the Norsemen who came to Maine in their little open boats a thousand years ago. To stew coot, runs this recipe, place the bird in a kettle of water with a red building-brick free of mortar and blemishes. Parboil the coot and the brick together for three hours. Pour off the water, refill the kettle, and again parboil for three hours. For the (Pg. 160--ed.) third time throw off the water, for the last time add fresh water, and let the coot and the brick simmer together overnight. In the morning throw away the coot and eat the brick. State-of-Mainers, no matter how often they hear it, always find this recipe inordinately amusing. It used to amuse my grandmother, and I've heard her repeat that venerable recipe herself, with many a quiet chuckle; yet she served coot stew whenever coot couldn't be avoided. She had the coot skinned, never plucked; and all fat was carefully removed. The bodies were parboiled fifteen minutes in water to which soda had been added. Then they were put in an iron kettle with a moderate amount of water and boiled three hours, at the end of which time as many sliced potatoes were added as the situation seemed to require. Dumplings were added as soon as the potatoes were done; and when the dumplings in turn were thoroughly cooked, they were temporarily removed while the remaining liquid was thickened with flour and water, and salted and peppered to taste. The dumplings were then put back, and the stew was ready to serve. Pg. 161: The State of Maine, in my grandmother's day, was perhaps a trifle odd about what was known as the Demon Rum--rum being the generic term for all alcoholic beverages. Pg. 163: In northern Maine, where winters are lingering and oppressive, early settlers made buttered rum by using hot hard cider in place of hot water; and Local Tradition--in which, as I have repeatedly intimated, I put little faith--says that men have been known, at the beginning of winter, to drink too much hot buttered rum made with a base of hot hard cider, fall into a stupor and not wake up till spring. Pg. 163: Flip was a milder and more popular beverage in Maine in the early days, though not much cheaper, since there was a period, a couple of generations before the Revolution, when rum sold for a shilling and a half a gallon. The base of flip was beer. A two-quart pitcher was three-quarters filled with beer, to which was added a cup of rum, and sweetening matter to taste--brown sugar, molasses or dried pumpkin. This mixture was stirred with the red-hot poker, which was kept constantly clean and hot for that purpose.Taverns which pretended to great gentility and elegance kept on hand a bowl of flip-sweetener made of a pint of cream, four pounds of sugar, and four eggs, well beaten together. Pg. 164: On occasions the sweetening matter was omitted from a mixture of beer and rum, in which case the drink was known as "calibogus." Pg. 348 (Maine road signs): BARBARA DEAN'S--FOOD WE ARE PROUD TO SERVE THIS IS P.J.'S DINER--A GOOD PLACE TO EAT FRANCES JEWELL DINING ROOM--REAL MAINE HOME COOKING HOT FRIED CLAMS TO TAKE OUT HOT FRIED CLAMS TO TAKE WITH U Pg. 354 (Maine road signs): TRY OUR FRIED CLAM DINNER A LONG COOL DRINK MADE WITH 4 ROSES GORTON'S CODFISH MARY ANN'S LUNCH CLOVERBLOOM BUTTER PICKWICK ALE NISSEN'S BREAD--FRESHEST THING IN TOWN FRIED CLAMS TO TAKE OUT --------------------------------------------------------------- DEMON RUM Score another one for the BROOKLYN EAGLE--until I check with the American Periodical Series, not available here are NYU. 14 November 1845, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: He was under the influence of the demon, rum. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Robinson, Solon, 1803-1880. Title: Hot corn: life scenes in New York illustrated. Including the story of little Katy, Madalina, the rag-pikcer's daughter, wild Maggie, etc. With original designs, engraved by N. Orr. By Solon Robinson. Publication date: 1854. Search results: 2 matches in full text Page 63 - 1 term matching "demon rum" Page 361 - 1 term matching "demon rum" Pg. 361: It was not the man who struck the blow, it was the demon Rum! From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 14 06:16:58 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:16:58 -0700 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60 In-Reply-To: <133.1e283211.2bc9c6cd@aol.com> Message-ID: >...Barry Popik's earliest citation for "blush wine" is 1984. Is the >following a >synonym? > >"Making schiller wine.--- No. "blush wine" is white wine from red grapes, which comes out in a range of reddish colors. It is made by using red grapes and keeping the skins on for only a short period of time - enough to just color the wine. I think it was Sutter Home who came out with a white zinfandel and were the first to call their product "blush wine". It was/is quite sweet - sort of like a spiked Kool-Aid. If one excludes all the ros? wines, the first produce of this type of wine here, I think, was Caymus, with their Oeil du Perdrix (Eye of the Partridge), which was a bone dry white Pinot Noir. Unfortunately, we just found out they don't have it anymore. It was my favorite wine. Foo. Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 06:47:34 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:47:34 -0400 Subject: Wine names from 1859-60; Oysters Bienville (1955,1956) Message-ID: One citation I have (maybe it was the OXFORD COMPANION TO WINE--where I didn't see "mevushal," by the way) says that "blush wine" was introduced in 1977. --------------------------------------------------------------- OYSTERS BIENVILLE For those who can't sleep deciding between Arnaud's and Antoine's oysters. The former is Oysters Bienville, the latter Oysters Rockefeller. 1. Food: New Orleans Oysters; Recipes of Types Made Famous by Antoine's and Arnaud's Preserves Are the Latest Specialty Offered by Trappist Monks 'Trappist Preserves' ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 2, 1956; pg. 18, 1 pgs (Oysters Bienville recipe is here--ed.) 2. Eating; JESSE'S BOOK OF CREOLE AND DEEP SOUTH RECIPES. By Edith Ballard Watts, with John Watts. 184 pp. New York: The Viking Press. $3.50 THE LONGCHAMPS COOKBOOK. By Max Winkler. Illustrations by Robert M. Myers. 110 pp. New York; By CHARLOTTE TURGEON; New York, New York, N.Y.; Feb 13, 1955; pg. 291, 1 pgs ("...Arnaud's Oysters Bienville...") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 07:01:19 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 03:01:19 -0400 Subject: Refrigerator Cookie (1930) Message-ID: REFRIGERATOR COOKIE All the early citations--and they start in 1930--are from the WASHINGTON POST, not the NEW YORK TIMES. Did the Washington Post Cooking School invent the "refrigerator cookie" during the Great Depression or just popularize it? 1. Recipe for 'Honey Sweets' Wins First Prize in Post Contest for Mrs. J.W. Schutz; Paula Gruber, Mrs. L.H. Dennis Receive Second, Third Awards; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 5, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs 2. Nourishing Soup Ideal Basis For Student's Midday Meal; Prepared With Beef Foundation, It Provides All the Vegetables and Some of the Protein Needed for a Well Balanced Meal.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 17, 1935; pg. 12, 1 pgs 3. Crisp Cookies On Preferred Dessert List; Choose Recipes That Require No Intricate Mixing or Long Baking.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 3, 1935; pg. 7, 1 pgs 4. Sun-Preserved Strawberries Easily Put Up; Jam That Fruit Going to Waste on Vines; Hints on Cooking Peas.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 11, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs 5. Well-Filled Cookie Crock Puts Stop to Food Raids; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 3, 1935; pg. S8, 1 pgs 6. These Menus Ease Problem Of Lone Diner; Refrigerator Is Decided Help to Woman Who Plans for Herself.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 18, 1935; pg. 11, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 16, 1935; pg. 13, 1 pgs 8. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 12, 1935; pg. 13, 1 pgs 9. Article 1 -- No Title; By Ann Barrett.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 9, 1934; pg. 12, 1 pgs 10. Article 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 23, 1933; pg. 9, 1 pgs matched your search. 11. GOOD COOKIES IN A JAR STILL SPELL HOME TO MILLIONS; By ANN BARRETT; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 18, 1933; pg. 8, 1 pgs 12. Capital Housewives Praise Third Post Cooking School; American Association of University Women Representative Lauds Mrs. Northcross at First Session of Course in Home Economics at Belasco.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 12, 1930; pg. 1, 2 pgs: _Refrigerator Cookies._ 2 cups sugar. 4 cups sifted flour. 1 tablespoon water. 1/3 teaspoon soda. 1 teaspoon vanilla. 1 cup shortening. 1 1/2 cups fine chopped nuts. 1 teaspoon salt. 1 teaspoon cream tartar. 3 eggs. Method from platform. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 08:34:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 04:34:07 -0400 Subject: Juicer; Electric Mixer; Cake Mixer Message-ID: OT: UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA Last one. I have to leave some of these for tomorrow. Dave Kahn (THE CODEBREAKERS) showed up at the NYPL on Saturday. He's giving a cryptography lecture at the University of Pennsylvania on Tuesday, so I have to cancel work and take David Shulman to Philadelphia. Maybe I'll have time to go to the University Archives; anyone wants anything in Philadelphia, let me know. --------------------------------------------------------------- JUICER OED's first citation is 1938, from AMERICAN SPEECH, for the fruit/vegetable "juicer." There were a lot of wrong hits (British="lime juicers"), so I added the search word "kitchen." 1. Gift for Holiday Hostess Easy Shopping Errand; Field of Selection Is Wide and Items Are Readily Purchased With Comforting Prospect of Satisfaction for the Recipient.; By Elizabeth MacRae Boykin.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 15, 1935; pg. S10, 1 pgs 2. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 12, 1935; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Universal Mixer, beater and hand juicer") 3. Display Ad 22 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 20, 1935; pg. 22, 1 pgs 4. Display Ad 23 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 19, 1935; pg. 22, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 29, 1935; pg. 5, 1 pgs 6. Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 4, 1934; pg. B10, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 23, 1934; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Electric Mixer, Beater and Juicer") 8. Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 27, 1932; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("This $19.95 Hamilton Beach Electric Food Mixer and Juicer") 9. Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 20, 1895; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Glass Lemon Juicers...5c ea.") 10. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 4, 1884; pg. 5, 1 pgs (Couldn't find anything!--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ELECTRIC MIXER OED's first "electric mixer" citation is 1933. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 9, 1929; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Dormeyer Electric Mixer and Beater") Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 9, 1928; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("An Electric Mixer like this will mix all sorts of drinks, whip cream, beat eggs and make wonderful dressings. $7.") Mixers in Kitchens Eliminate Much Work; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1928; pg. 10, 1 pgs Classified Ad 20 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1928; pg. 50, 1 pgs ("SALESMEN with car, calling delicatessen stores, new electric food mixer; excellent proposition.") Display Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 1, 1925; pg. 11, 1 pgs: WANAMAKER'S STORE December 2nd "Muffins and Pastry" _Using an Electric Mixer_ December 8th "Cakes" _Using an Electric Mixer_ (TRADEMARKS) (Note that I ran "Hamilton Beach" and "mixer" through the databases, and there were no NEW YORK TIMES or WASHINGTON POST or WALL STREET JOURNAL hits before 1930--ed.) Word Mark HAMILTON BEACH Goods and Services IC 007 009. US 021. G & S: ELECTRIC DRINK MIXERS, ELECTRIC VACUUM CLEANERS, AND ELECTRIC MOTORS FOR SEWING MACHINES. FIRST USE: 19100000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19100000 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 71283192 Filing Date April 29, 1929 Registration Number 0259231 Registration Date July 23, 1929 Owner (REGISTRANT) HAMILTON BEACH MANUFACTURING COMPANY CORPORATION WISCONSIN 1501-1539 RAPIDS DRIVE RACINE WISCONSIN (LAST LISTED OWNER) HAMILTON BEACH, INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF DELAWARE 95 SCOVILL ST. WATERBURY CONNECTICUT 06706 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Renewal 3RD RENEWAL 19890723 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark HAMILTON BEACH Goods and Services IC 007 009. US 021. G & S: ELECTRICAL APPARATUS-NAMELY, DRINK MIXERS, FOOD MIXERS, JUICE EXTRACTORS, VACUUM CLEANERS, GLASS WASHERS, AND ELECTRIC MOTORS FOR SEWING MACHINES AND OTHER FRACTIONAL HORSE POWER ELECTRIC MOTORS. FIRST USE: 19100000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19100000 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 71543362 Filing Date October 7, 1947 Registration Number 0512451 Registration Date July 19, 1949 Owner (REGISTRANT) SCOVILL MANUFACTURING COMPANY CORPORATION CONNECTICUT 1509 RAPIDS DRIVE RACINE WISCONSIN (LAST LISTED OWNER) HAMILTON BEACH, INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF DELAWARE 95 SCOVILL ST. WATERBURY CONNECTICUT 06706 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 19890719 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE --------------------------------------------------------------- CAKE MIXER OED has 1877. I'll do more work on this with the American Periodical Series. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 19, 1899; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("SALZMAN'S ROYAL CAKE MIXER AND EGG BEATER." Looks like a spoon to me--ed.) Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 20, 1895; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Tivoli Egg Beaters and Cake Mixers, with Glass Jar...98c ea.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 14 22:57:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:57:22 -0400 Subject: Meat Tenderizer (1936) Message-ID: Merriam-Webster has 1930 for "tenderizer." OED--ever awful on food--has 1958 for "tenderizer." The March 2002 revision for "meat tenderizer" gives a 1958 date. M-W's date doesn't specify what kind of tenderizer we're taking about. The liquid tenderizer came later in the 1930s, as these cites show. I'll check the American Periodical Series (which has SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN) when I change libaries. New Kitchen Equipment; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 4, 1949; pg. SM46, 2 pgs ("Ten-piece wooden unit for hanging on wall has a French pastry rolling pin, meat tenderizer, etc.") News of Food; Enzyme Derived From Papaya Hailed for Its Ability to Tenderize Tough Meat ; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 8, 1944; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("So much of the meat on the market nowadays is tough that a product known as a 'meat tenderizer' should receive a warm reception. This is a pale yellow liquid derived from the papaya, a tropical fruit that grows in Florida. When applied to beef, lamb, veal, pork or pultry the solution softens the connective tissue and muscle fibers with a 'tenderizing' effect.") Scientists Put Bee On Bee, Find Queen Diets on Vitamin B; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 10, 1939; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("The papaya was suggested as a meat tenderizer. Papain, from the papaya, is the first enzyme crystalized successfully, the report declared." The report is by the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture--ed.) GAIN IN BUSINESS NOTED BY HOTELS; F.A. McKowne, at Opening of National Show, Sees Trend to Greater Prosperity.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1936; pg. 27, 1 pgs: _Among Innovation on View Is a Liquid to Make Steaks More Tender_ (...) The meat "tenderizer" is actually an enzyme, an extract of the fruit of the carica papaya plant, which has been used for centuries by natives in the South Seas. In a few moments the liquid softens the tissue. Classified Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 2, 1936; pg. RE17, 1 pgs (Col. 6: "SALESMEN...'TENDRA,' new liquid meat tenderizer, complying with all pure food laws;...") (WORLDCAT database) Title: Effects of a meat tenderizer on less tender cuts of beef cooked by four methods Author: Hay, Pattie Patrice Libraries with Item: "Effects of a meat tenderi..." KS KANSAS STATE UNIV KKS Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: Effects of a meat tenderizer on less tender cuts of beef cooked by four methods / Author(s): Hay, Pattie Patrice. Year: 1952 Description: 112 leaves : ill. ; 29 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Meat -- Testing. Note(s): Typescript, etc./ Includes bibliographical references (leaves 99-101)./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--Kansas State College, 1952. Responsibility: by Pattie Patrice Hay. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19951010 Update: 20020715 Accession No: OCLC: 33269198 Database: WorldCat Title: Effects of powdered tenderizer on palatability of cuts from beef short loin Author: Larson, Jeanne Ann Libraries with Item: "Effects of powdered tende..." IA IOWA STATE UNIV IWA Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: Effects of powdered tenderizer on palatability of cuts from beef short loin ... / Author(s): Larson, Jeanne Ann. Year: 1956 Description: 71 leaves : ill. ; 29 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Meat. Beef. Note(s): Typescript./ Includes bibliography./ Dissertation: Thesis (M.S.)--Iowa State College, 1956. Class Descriptors: LC: TX556.B4 Responsibility: by Jeanne Ann Larson. Material Type: Thesis/dissertation (deg); Manuscript text (mtx) Document Type: Book Entry: 19970722 Update: 19970722 Accession No: OCLC: 37334120 Database: WorldCat Title: Kitchen gadgets Author(s): Holloway, Mary. Corp Author(s): Production Guild. ; RMI Media Productions. Publication: Kansas City, Mo. :; RMI Media Productions, Year: 1980 Description: 1 videocassette (16 min.) :; sd., col. ;; 3/4 in. +; teacher's guide + recipes. Language: English Series: Small kitchen equipment ;; RMI-8005; Variation: Small kitchen equipment ;; no. 6. Abstract: Abstract: An educational kit describes a variety of kitchen gadgets, some of which date back almost 100 years. The intended uses, quality, and selection of various kitchen gadgets are discussed. Examples of such gadgets include the meat tenderizer, hamburger patty maker, colander, egg and tomato slicers, salad tongs, can opener, jar lifters, cookie cutters, etc. Numerous kitchen gadgets and their applications are discussed. Preparation of an Obsttorte (both cake and and glaze) using different kitchen gadgets is demonstrated and discussed in detail. (wz) SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Instructional media. Secondary grades. Food preparation, home. Cooking equipment (Small) Cooking utensils. Cooking methods. Home economics. Class Descriptors: LC: TX656.S512 F&N AV Responsibility: Production Guild. Writer, director, Mary Holloway. Material Type: Projected image (pgr); Videorecording (vid); Videocassette (vca) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19840921 Update: 20020706 Accession No: OCLC: 11182790 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 00:16:04 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:16:04 -0400 Subject: She-Crab Soup (1934); Mixed Grill (1910); Refried Beans (1945) Message-ID: SHE-CRAB SOUP "She-crab soup" is a specialty of Charleston. NYU is missing volume four of DARE, so I can't check. OED, ah, doesn't have it. 1. DRIVING TO FLORIDA; Faster and More Comfortable Trip South Possible Following New Construction; By MERRILL FOLSOM; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 9, 1951; pg. 305, 1 pgs (...restaurants serving she-crab soup, shrimp pie, hoppin-john, okra gumbo and other plantation dishes.") 2. Out of My Mind; Coast to Coast; By Katherine Brush; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 22, 1939; pg. AM2, 1 pgs ("...and the she-crab soup they make in Charleston...and the pompano baked in waxed paper at Antoine's in New Orleans...") 3. Charleston, Where Rice and Pedigree Rule; Hospitality of Natives and Climate Add to City's Charm.; By Frances Parkinson Keyes.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 1, 1934; pg. S7, 1 pgs ("'She cralb! She cralb! She cralb!' drones another vender through his nose, the nonchalance of his hearing inspired by his knowledge of the desirability of his wares; for the female of the species is more luscious than the male, and 'She Crab Soup,' as the housewife of Charleston serves it, is worth traveling around the world to taste.") --------------------------------------------------------------- MIXED GRILL I posted "mixed grill" before, but not this citation, I guess. The revised OED (September 2002) has 1913 for "mixed grill." WHERE MUSIC SOOTHES WHILE LOBSTERS BROIL; No Restaurant Is Now Complete Without an Orchestra to Serve Wagner, Bach or Chopin to Tempt the Appetite -- Noted Musicians Draw Big Crowd.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 24, 1910; pg. SM7, 1 pgs (Col. 4: "...the salad and the cheese may be chosen with epicurean taste, but it's a mixed grill every day where the music is concerned, with a little slice of Chopin, maybe, a morsel or Wagner, and a few trimmings of Victor Herbert to garnish up the clatter.") --------------------------------------------------------------- REFRIED BEANS I'll do better. OED has 1957? Article 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 23, 1945; pg. 12, 1 pgs (Recipe for "REFRIED BEANS" is here--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- DOGGY BAG I've cited "doggie bag" before, but the 1943 WASHINGTON POST article about San Francisco sounds about right for the origin. I have several 1947 articles. Bones for Bowser; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 26, 1947; pg. B2, 1 pgs: Now all that is changed. Dinners from which bones may be salvaged are accompanied by a wax-lined paper bag inscribed as follows: _Are you happy over dinner?_ _Don't have all the fun alone._ _Remember the pup who's waiting_ _And take him a luscious bone._ Dogs...; By George Berner; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 12, 1943; pg. R2, 1 pgs ("Naturally the idea would have been barren of results without the full cooperation of the restaurants, so samples of Pet Pakit bags and Pet Pakit bag dispensers were made up and submitted to the San Francisco Restaurant Association, together with an explanation of what they would accomplish.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 00:40:03 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:40:03 -0400 Subject: Wacky Cake (1949); Icebox Pie (1941) Message-ID: WACKY CAKE "Wacky Cake" is in Jean Anderson's AMERICAN CENTURY COOKBOOK. I thought it was a nonce name, but I guess this wacky thing must be recorded. 1. Dead Guy on Campus; THE SECRET HISTORY; By Andrew Rosenheim; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 13, 1992; pg. BR3, 1 pgs 2. Tobe young and in the kitchen page C4; A Child Wants to Cook? Lead the Way if You Can, and Quickly; By TRISH HALL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 2, 1992; pg. C1, 2 pgs 3. Wacky Cake Works; Anne's Reader Exchange; Mrs. J.P., K.D., K.P., Bettle M., Carol B.; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 13, 1969; pg. D9, 1 pgs 4. Wacky Cake Passes a Junior Test; WACKY CAKE; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 7, 1968; pg. D5, 1 pgs 5. Rice Adds Spice; RECOMMENDED; Anne's Exchange; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 14, 1967; pg. D15, 1 pgs 6. Pick Mushrooms Only in Markets; SAVING SALAD; Anne's Reader Exchange, Mrs. I.E., L.H.V. N.J.R., Arlington, Joan R. Adelphi, Md., MRS. P.V. Arlington, A.M. Chevy Chase; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Aug 24, 1967; pg. D11, 1 pgs 7. Wanted: Housekeeping Hints; ANTIQUE APPRAISAL; Anne's Reader Exchange; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 27, 1962; pg. B8, 1 pgs 8. The Egg. . . uAnd You; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Oct 4, 1957; pg. C2, 1 pgs 9. TEEN-AGE FAVORITES; Recipes by winners in Betty Crocker Search -- the American homemakers of tomorrow; by Amy Alden; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 5, 1956; pg. AW19, 1 pgs 10. Anne's Trading Post: Reader Proposes Problem On Early American Decor; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Dec 18, 1955; pg. F16, 1 pgs 11. Display Ad 26 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1949; pg. 23, 1 pgs: _WACKY CAKE_ A favorite recipe of Mrs. Donald Adam. Detroit, Michigan 1 1/2 cups sifted flour 1 cup sugar 2 tablespoons cocoa 1 teaspoon soda 1/2 teaspoon salt 5 tablespoons shortening 1 tablespoon vinegar 1 teaspoon vanilla 1 cup cold water (...) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICEBOX PIE Most "icebox pie" hits are from 1950 on, except for this. Dinner is one dollar? That include dessert? Display Ad 32 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 10, 1941; pg. SA7, 1 pgs ("That's THE BLACK LANTERN INN, now under the management of gracious Margaret Dyer. Try their creamed chicken and waffles, spoonbread and lemon ice box pie. Dinners 1.00 to 1.50. 15 mi. from Memorial Bridge on ROute 50.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 01:00:34 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:00:34 -0400 Subject: "Mulligan" golf shot (1947, 1949) Message-ID: The revised OED (March 2003) has 1949 for the "Mulligan" golf shot. It remains one of our most puzzling name etymologies. Celebrities Find Ball Is Impassive And Elusive on Washington Links; CELEBRITIES FIND GOLF BALL ELUSIVE; By The Associated Press; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 5, 1949; pg. S1, 2 pgs ("The tempo was set on the first tee where the players were permitted mulligans, or second and third shots if necessary, which was often.") Bing Crosby, Sarazen Lead Golf Field; POVICH; By Shirley Povich Post Reporter; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 18, 1947; pg. M8, 2 pgs ("General Eisenhower got away from the first tee gracefully on his second shot, taking advantage of the rule of 'Mulligans,' to smite one far down the middle after hooking his first shot into the trees.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 01:31:29 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:31:29 -0400 Subject: Vinegar Pie (1894); Oyster Shooter (1986) Message-ID: VINEGAR PIE Not in OED. I'll check other databases soon. 14. OUR COOKING CLASS; By Mrs. MARY D. CHAMBERS.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 12, 1924; pg. 11, 1 pgs 15. ROMANCE OF VINEGAR PIE; From McClure's Magazine.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 8, 1905; pg. FP11, 1 pgs 16. PIES AND PIE EATERS; Twenty-five Thousand Consumed Daily Here.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 29, 1903; pg. B10, 1 pgs 17. A WICKED GEORGIA GIRL.; Charged with Planning the Murder of a Young Man.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1896; pg. 5, 1 pgs 18. THE BOOK AGENT AT "THE POINT"; Mrs. Rowley Tells of His Winning Ways and of Sary Ann, "Knowed" for Her Vinegar Pies.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 2, 1894; pg. 21, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- OYSTER SHOOTER This seems to have started in New Orleans, but I don't have a New Orleans newspaper online to work from. I've posted a cite or two before. WHAT'S DOING IN Cincinnati; By LYDIA CHAVEZ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 11, 1988; pg. XX10, 1 pgs (At The Bistro on Vine. "...oyster shooters (a fresh oyster in a chilled shot glass filled with pepper-flavored vodka topped with cocktail sauce and a dollop of sour cream).") My 50 Favorites; La Brasserie is more a serious restaurant than the cafe it used to be. Each season sees new dishes; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Sep 20, 1987; pg. 288, 33 pgs (At the New Orleans Cafe, 1790 Columbia Rd. NW. "...a shooter (an oyster and cocktail sauce in a shot glass of vodka).") (DOW JONES news database) It's a rare Bird that stops Hawks Ron Hudspeth STAFF 05/01/1986 Atlanta Journal and Constitution B/01 . . . . Beginning Friday at the Blue Ribbon Grill, owner Ludlow Porch says, "You can have all the shooters you want and still drive home." The new concoction is an Oyster Shooter. "You simply place the oyster in a shooter glass, slap on your favorite Tabasco or cocktail sauce, and gulp it down in one fell swoop," says Ludlow. . . . From zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Tue Apr 15 02:56:48 2003 From: zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:56:48 -0700 Subject: troops Message-ID: i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary problem. "servicemen" used to work for the purpose, but that was when the troops in question were in fact male. i suppose "servicepeople", clunky though it is, would do. "members of the armed services" says it exactly right, but i can't see that expression sweeping the nation. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From RonButters at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 02:58:23 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:58:23 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Brodie=20book=20(continue?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d)?= Message-ID: In a message dated 3/23/03 1:07:59 AM, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > I'm not allowed to write a book > anybody is allowed to write a book this is a free country From dwhause at JOBE.NET Tue Apr 15 03:18:09 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:18:09 -0500 Subject: troops Message-ID: "Troop" or "trooper" tends to be cavalry slang for soldier, partially adopted by the airborne for paratroopers. Just to add confusion, "troop" is also the cavalry term for what other branches would call a company, around 100-160 soldiers. Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arnold Zwicky" i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 07:26:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 03:26:01 EDT Subject: Road House(1848); Vinegar Pie(1890); Demon Rum(1843); Hubbard Squash Message-ID: ROAD HOUSE John Mariani's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK includes "road house," which is dated to 1855. This is an amusing title where "The Star Rail Road House" could be "The Star Railroad House" or "The Star Rail Roadhouse." The former could have influenced the latter. This "road house" was located in New York City. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The National Police Gazette (1845-1906), New York; Oct 28, 1848; Vol. VOLUME IV., Iss. 0 Advertisement 5 -- No Title; pg. 0_003, 1 pgs: _THE STAR RAIL ROAD HOUSE_ Kept by Treadwell Seaman No. 485 4th Avenue, between 96th and 97th street, with Boarding and Lodging is fitted up with Billiard and Bowling saloons which cannot exceeded (sic) in the upper section of this city. --------------------------------------------------------------- VINEGAR PIE Here's "vinegar pie" a little earlier than previously posted--and from SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN! (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Oct 25, 1890; Vol. Vol. LXIII., Iss. 0 Fun among Editors.; pg. 257, 1 pgs ("The argument as far as yet carried on appears to merit the dubious compliment which was paid to Aunt Sally's vinegar pie, 'Very good what there is of it, and plenty of it such as it is.'") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- DEMON RUM Literature Online has a little earlier than 1845 for "demon rum": Pierpont, John, 1785-1866 BEGONE VILE RUM. 2Kb, [from Cold water melodies, and Washingtonian songster (1843)] Found 1 hit: ...But I tell thee, murderous demon, Rum, Thou never shalt have... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- HUBBARD SQUASH OED has 1868 for "Hubbard Squash." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: New Hampshire state agricultural society. Title: Transactions of the New Hampshire state agricultural society, 1850/52-1860, with condensed reports of county societies... Publication date: 1853-[61] Search results: 2 matches in full text Page 51 - 1 term matching "Hubbard squash" ("...6 Hubbard Squash...") Page 52 - 1 term matching "Hubbard squash" (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) 25 March 1865, SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, pg. 200 Solon Robinson read a letter from a man saying that he finds it impossible to get his Hubbard squash vines to produce more than one squash at a hill, though he had tried pinching off the laterals and other plans. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- EGG TIMER OED has 1884, but I'd check that citation again. Here are two 1886 patent applications. 6 January 1886, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: BROOKLYN INVENTORS. (...) John H. Ernst, egg timer. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jan 16, 1886; Vol. Vol. LIV., Iss. 0 MISCELLANEOUS INVENTIONS.; pg. 42, 1 pgs ("An egg timer has been patented by Mr. William H. Silver, of New York city.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 07:50:17 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 03:50:17 EDT Subject: "Tishpishti" for Passover; "Colomba Pasquale" for Easter Message-ID: The wonderful people at the MTA close the Columbia University subway station at nights and on weekends (as well as the 110th and 103rd Street stops), so I walk down to 96th Street. The Silver Moon Bakery is at 2740 Broadway, at West 105th Street. This is in the window: FOR PASSOVER: Flourless Chocolate Cake Apricot Tart Macaroons (french, chocolate, coconut) French Meringues Lace Matzos Tishpishti FOR EASTER: Vanilla Easter Egg Chocolate Mousse Easter Egg Bunny Cookie Dove of Peace Easter Bread (Colomba Pasquale) Neither "tishpishti" nor "Easter dove" (Colomba di Pasqua) is in OED. Here are some web sites: http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/rfcj/PESACH-CAKESandPIES/Cake_Nut_Cake_with_Syrup _1_Sephardic_Tishpishti_-_pareve.html http://www.milioni.com/ricingl/dati/502.htm From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 08:43:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 04:43:09 EDT Subject: Tipsy Parson (1848) Message-ID: OED has "tipsy cake" to 1807. In the U.S., it's also called "tipsy parson," and this is the first I've seen of that name. It appears derive from these two stories in GODEY'S LADY'S BOOK. March, 1848 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XXXVI page 141 A << TIPSY PARSON>> . BY KATE SUTHERLAND. Ix a village not a hundred miles from Philadelphia, resided the Rev. Mr. Manlius, who had the pastoral charge of a very respectable congregation, and was highly esteemed by them; but there was one thing in which he did not give general satisfaction, and in consequence of which many excellent members of his church felt seriously scandalized. He would neither join a temperance society, nor omit his glass of wine when he felt inclined to take it. It is only fair to say, however, that such spirituous indulgences were not of frequent occurrence. It was more the principle of the thing, as he said, that he stood upon, than anything else, that prevented his signing a temperance pledge. (...) May, 1848 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XXXVI page 257 (...) Uncle John, after reading the little extract just quoted, opened the magazine in another part, and said with a smile "'A << Tipsy Parson>> !' Why what's this?" All became silent with interest, and Uncle John read the story aloud. The listeners were as grave as the assembly of deacons that sat on the case of the Rev. Mr. Manlius, until the denouement came, and then there was as free a gust of merriment as distinguished that grave body when the "<< tipsy>> << parson>> " at Mrs. Reeside's party turned out to be only a sponge cake soaked in brandy. "Capital!" said Mr. Martin. "First ratw!" said William. "A funny affair!" said Aunt Edith. While Lilly laughed, more for joy at finding her Lady's Book so highly approved, than at the humorous incident just read. (...) From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue Apr 15 14:43:05 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:43:05 -0500 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: In a TV news report I heard not only "seven troops" but also "one troop", referring to an individual soldier. I think it was on one of the cable channels, but I don't remember which one. It struck me as normal analogical development involving back formation, but one that's still a ways short of acceptance. However, once one newsreader or expert uses such a word, it's often not long before others pick it up. I look forward to hearing other singular uses of "troop" for "soldier". Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Arnold Zwicky Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:57 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: troops i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary problem. "servicemen" used to work for the purpose, but that was when the troops in question were in fact male. i suppose "servicepeople", clunky though it is, would do. "members of the armed services" says it exactly right, but i can't see that expression sweeping the nation. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 15 15:15:42 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:15:42 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: > i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the > news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me > (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more > generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one > troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? I would say the editors of the big reference grammars are well behind the times. "Troops" is extremely common as a countable noun. Sentences like, "50,000 troops have been sent to the Gulf" can be found throughout the news media. The only thing different about this particular usage is that it is a very small number. AHD4 includes this countable sense (1.b). The AP Stylebook warns against using "soldier" to denote a marine and suggests "troops" as an alternative, but doesn't say anything about countability. > now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New > York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were > five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so > "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed > to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT > described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary > problem. "Soldier" is often informally used to refer to a military person of any service, but this can become confusing with the US military jargon sense which limits its use to Army personnel. In this case, however, "seven soldiers" is proper in all contexts as the two pilots were Army helicopter pilots. The Air Force counterpart to soldier, sailor, or marine is "airman." All four services have pilots, although the Navy calls them "aviators" to avoid confusion with the guys who drive ships in and out of ports. From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 15:42:23 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:42:23 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: As discussed on this list awhile ago, "Folks" has undergone the same evolution at about the same time, and I still react to it the way Arnold did to "seven troops." ("Huh? Can they do that?!!") Only troop(s) seems to have gone a step further, since I'm sure I haven't heard *"one folk." Peter Mc. --On Monday, April 14, 2003 7:56 PM -0700 Arnold Zwicky wrote: > i was startled to hear, on NPR's Sunday Morning Edition yesterday, the > news that "seven troops" had been rescued in iraq. "troops" is for me > (and, from a quick review of the big reference grammars, rather more > generally) formally plural but uncountable. (nobody can say "only one > troop was captured.") so how had the writers fallen into this? > > now, *i* would have said "seven soldiers", but i see from the New > York Times writeup this morning what the problem was: there were > five soldiers ("Army soldiers", actually) and two pilots. so > "soldier" would have been understood in its narrow sense, as opposed > to "sailor", "marine", and "pilot" (or perhaps "flier"). the NYT > described them as "prisoners of war", neatly evading the vocabulary > problem. > > "servicemen" used to work for the purpose, but that was when the > troops in question were in fact male. i suppose "servicepeople", > clunky though it is, would do. "members of the armed services" says > it exactly right, but i can't see that expression sweeping the nation. > > arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) **************************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College * McMinnville, OR pmcgraw at linfield.edu From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Tue Apr 15 17:00:19 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:00:19 EDT Subject: troops Message-ID: In my long-ago Army service (1969-1971) the unit I was in used "troop" as a singular to mean one soldier. Most often it was in the expression "a strack troop" meaning a soldier who was ready to pass inspection at any time. (I have yet to find out where "strack" came from). I don't know how widespread this usage was. Possibly it was a local usage, as was "No alligators. No hermit crabs" (the CO's catch-phrase after one of each had been found during a surprise barracks inspection.) - Jim Landau From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 17:13:02 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:13:02 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <200304150256.h3F2umn2021259@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: When my brother was in basic at Fort Leonard Wood (known to the troops as Fort Lost-in-the-Woods) in the 50s, he was often addressed as "young troop" by his superiors. Peter Richardson From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 15 17:29:02 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:29:02 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <1dc.7890d96.2bcd94a3@aol.com> Message-ID: > In my long-ago Army service (1969-1971) the unit I was in > used "troop" as a singular to mean one soldier. Most > often it was in the expression "a strack troop" meaning > a soldier who was ready to pass inspection at any time. > (I have yet to find out where "strack" came from). "STRAC" is an old military acronym for "Skilled, Trained/Tough, Ready Around the Clock." It began life as an official acronym for "Strategic Army Corps/Command" in the 1950s. This was an army unit that was to be quickly deployed to trouble spots around the world. The term was later morphed in the above form as a motto for this unit and later various other military units. STRAC (sometimes "strack") passed into general Army use as an adjective meaning a soldier who had it together. It was revived recently in official use as an acronum for "Standards in Training Commission." From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 17:37:13 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:37:13 -0700 Subject: strack--was troops In-Reply-To: <1dc.7890d96.2bcd94a3@aol.com> Message-ID: Strack is German, meaning 'straight, taut.' It's usually used these days in schnurstracks 'straight as an arrow' (lit. straight as a string); you'd go schnurstracks to the office of some official, for example, to complain about something. Maybe 'make a bee-line' would be an appropriate dictionary entry for _schnurstracks gehen_. PR On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, James A. Landau wrote: > In my long-ago Army service (1969-1971) the unit I was in used "troop" as a > singular to mean one soldier. Most often it was in the expression "a strack > troop" meaning a soldier who was ready to pass inspection at any time. (I > have yet to find out where "strack" came from). > > I don't know how widespread this usage was. Possibly it was a local usage, > as was "No alligators. No hermit crabs" (the CO's catch-phrase after one of > each had been found during a surprise barracks inspection.) > > - Jim Landau > From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Tue Apr 15 17:39:10 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:39:10 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <002e01c30374$8285ead0$0300a8c0@HPN5290> Message-ID: Well, I stand--or sit--corrected. Thanks for the enlightening post, Dave. PR > "STRAC" is an old military acronym for "Skilled, Trained/Tough, Ready Around > the Clock." From dave at WILTON.NET Tue Apr 15 18:05:46 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:05:46 -0700 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wouldn't be surprised if the phrase was also influenced by the German word (which I didn't know about). After all, there were lots of US troops in Germany. The "strack" spelling, in particular, could be a conflation of the two words. > Well, I stand--or sit--corrected. Thanks for the enlightening > post, Dave. > > PR > > > "STRAC" is an old military acronym for "Skilled, > Trained/Tough, Ready Around > > the Clock." From mkuha at BSU.EDU Wed Apr 16 01:29:22 2003 From: mkuha at BSU.EDU (Mai Kuha) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:29:22 -0500 Subject: you guys Message-ID: Just in case there is any doubt about whether the meaning of "you guys" includes the feature [+male], here's what a male student said in class today as we discussed gender differences in language (this is not an exact quote, but very close): "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" -mai From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 04:05:21 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:05:21 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Just in case there is any doubt about whether the meaning of "you guys" >includes the feature [+male], here's what a male student said in class today >as we discussed gender differences in language (this is not an exact quote, >but very close): "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to >deal with!" > >-mai And for an interesting NON-vocative example I'm still pondering, here's Geno Auriemma, coach of UConn's national champion women's basketball squad (Go Huskies!), in a WFAN radio interview on 2/3/03, bemoaning the fact that this year's team was less deep than usual so his substitutes couldn't give his five superb starters a a good test when practicing: We bring *guys* in because it's hard to go 5 guys against 5 guys in practice. --the first "guys" is [+ male], the second two obviously not. Larry From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 07:05:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 03:05:11 EDT Subject: OT: David Shulman at Univ. of Pennsylvania Message-ID: http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/events.html "Deciphering the Past," an exhibit at the Van Pelt Library at the University of Pennsylvania, opened yesterday (April 15th). The curators relied heavily on this book: Call # JFD 76-7531 Author Shulman, David. Title An annotated bibliography of cryptography / David Shulman. Imprint New York : Garland Pub., 1976. LOCATION CALL # STATUS Humanities-Genrl Res JFD 76-7531 Location Humanities-Genrl Res Descript 388 p. in various pagings : ill. ; 23 cm. Series Garland reference library of the humanities, v. 37 Note Includes index. Subject Cryptography -- Bibliography. I canceled work to take David Shulman there. He also met a scrabble friend in Philadelphia who contributed to Merriam-Webster's Scrabble Dictionary. We had a late dinner on U. of Penn. Check it out on the sixth floor if you're in that library. Also, if anyone has any publishing ideas for his manuscript papers on Steve Brodie , please let me know. I feel strongly that Oxford should publish the book, or at least listen to him. His fifty-year record with Oxford should mean SOMETHING. If it helps the publishing any: Shulman is not only an OED contributor and a cryptographer, but he was a CIA spy who plotted to kill Simon Winchester and who murdered Chuck Barris after watching "The Dating Game.". From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 07:21:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 03:21:44 EDT Subject: Superspreader, Supershedder; Mevushal Message-ID: SUPERSPREADER, SUPERSHEDDER From the NEW YORK TIMES, 15 April 2003, pg. D1, col. 2: For some diseases, including tuberculosis, smallpox and staphylococcus infections, superspreaders definitely exist. They have been variously called "superinfectors," "supershedders" and even "cloud cases" for the mist of invisible droplets trailing them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- MEVUSHAL Again, "mevushal" is not in the revised OED. Was it even considered? From Wednesday's (today's) NEW YORK TIMES Dining In/Dining Out section: Still, there is the business of boiling the grape juice, which some believe is the key to making a wine kosher. This is not quite accurate. There are two levels of kosher wine, one made through the normal method of winemaking and one made with an additional process. A kosher wine is produced with equipment and machinery used exclusively for the wine, and only Sabbath-observant Jews may handle the grapes from the time they are crushed until the wine is bottled. Many kosher wines undergo one more step, to be made mevushal, or pasteurized. The origin of making wines mevushal is believed to date to ancient times, when wines were cooked so they could not be used in pagan worship. In the Middle Ages, some say, rabbis required wine to be boiled as an effort to keep young Jews from socializing, and sharing wine, with non-Jews. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 07:47:46 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 03:47:46 EDT Subject: "Iceing" on a cake (pre-1740) Message-ID: Author: Petre, D. Title: Recipe book : manuscript, 1705. Description: Archival/Manuscript Material 1 v. (106 leaves) : paper ; 18 cm. URL: http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/codex/public/PageLevel/index.cfm?WorkID=4 3 Web Link: Facsimile Location: Rare Book & Ms Library Manuscripts Call Number: Ms. Codex 624 Author: Kidder, E. (Edward), 1665 or 6-1739. Title: Receipts of Pastry and Cookery for the Use of his Scholars : manuscript, [17--] / by Ed. Kidder. Description: Archival/Manuscript Material 1 v. (37 leaves) : paper ; 19 cm. URL: http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/codex/public/PageLevel/index.cfm?WorkID=4 4 Web Link: Facsimile Location: Rare Book & Ms Library Manuscripts Call Number: Ms. Codex 625 I asked the Rare Book Room of the University of Pennsylvania's Van Pelt Library about Philadelphia history digitization projects, but there's not much going on. Certainly, no newspapers are coming online, such as the NEW YORK TIMES or BROOKLYN EAGLE for New York City. The above two cookbooks are online right now. Check them out. OED has 1769 for "icing". Merriam-Webster has "circa 1740" for "icing." "Iceing" is in the Kidder book, on page 23 or 24. From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 13:05:29 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:05:29 EDT Subject: you guys Message-ID: Overheard recently, in a conversation in a group of sixteen-year-old girls: "Cramps? I just tough them out. It's a macho thing." - Jim Landau From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Wed Apr 16 15:15:30 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:15:30 -0400 Subject: Superspreader, Supershedder; Mevushal Message-ID: The Globe and Mail had "super-spreader" last week: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030408.wsars0409/BNStory/N ational/ Lexis-Nexis has cites as far back as 1983. Paul From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 16 16:24:49 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:24:49 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur Message-ID: The lead editorial in this week's _New York Observer_ takes the _National Review_ to task for using _shyster_ in a headline. They call it "a deplorable and demeaning word which has traditionally been loaded with anti-Semitism," and make some etymological comments that will no doubt upset Professor Cohen. It's online at http://www.observer.com, via the link to the "Opinions" section; the site uses some frame system so I can't provide a direct link. Jesse Sheidlower OED From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 16:58:24 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:58:24 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur In-Reply-To: <20030416162449.GA8901@panix.com> Message-ID: >The lead editorial in this week's _New York Observer_ takes >the _National Review_ to task for using _shyster_ in a >headline. They call it "a deplorable and demeaning word which >has traditionally been loaded with anti-Semitism," and make >some etymological comments that will no doubt upset Professor >Cohen. I remember Jerry's and Barry's postings on _shyster_, and the evidence for its derivation from the earlier cant word _shiser_ and, ultimately, from Ger. _Scheisser_ (= someone worth shit). But the "loaded with anti-Semitism" claim seems not to state an incorrect etymological theory (although From what Jesse says there's an incorrect theory provided in the article as well) as much as describe what A. W. Read would have called the "trajectory" of the lexical item through history. Can we assume that this, if true, involves the interference between _shyster_ and Shylock? (This would amount to a Jewish version of the "niggardly" flap from a few years ago.) Or is something else going on? Larry From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 16 17:04:47 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:04:47 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 12:58:24PM -0400, Laurence Horn wrote: > > I remember Jerry's and Barry's postings on _shyster_, and the > evidence for its derivation from the earlier cant word _shiser_ and, > ultimately, from Ger. _Scheisser_ (= someone worth shit). But the > "loaded with anti-Semitism" claim seems not to state an incorrect > etymological theory (although From what Jesse says there's an > incorrect theory provided in the article as well) as much as describe > what A. W. Read would have called the "trajectory" of the lexical > item through history. Can we assume that this, if true, involves > the interference between _shyster_ and Shylock? (This would amount > to a Jewish version of the "niggardly" flap from a few years ago.) The article does draw a connection between _shyster_ and Shylock. A direct link (I've now discovered) is at: http://www.observer.com/pages/editorials.asp Anyone have opinions on the anti-Semitic flavor of the word, etymology aside? Jesse Sheidlower OED From dcamp911 at JUNO.COM Wed Apr 16 17:02:40 2003 From: dcamp911 at JUNO.COM (Duane Campbell) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:02:40 -0400 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for "Nothing is ever easy"? Thanks. D From editor at VERBATIMMAG.COM Wed Apr 16 17:17:52 2003 From: editor at VERBATIMMAG.COM (Erin McKean) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:17:52 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: <20030416.130244.-218755.1.dcamp911@juno.com> Message-ID: I would use "nil sine labore." (There's not a good example in Amo, Amas, Amat.) Erin McKean editor at verbatimmag.com >Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for >"Nothing is ever easy"? > >Thanks. > >D From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 18:14:03 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:14:03 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" in Golf In-Reply-To: <1da.7536342.2bc8b997@aol.com> Message-ID: Perhaps Barry can beat this using the Washington Post... birdie. n. (OED, 2., 1921) 192 _N.Y. Times_ 12 Sept. 10 There is practically no special American golf slang. They talk about shooting a round in a certain score, and when they play a hole under par they call it "Birdie." Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 18:16:30 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:16:30 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" in Golf (Corrected Posting) Message-ID: Perhaps Barry can beat this using the Washington Post... birdie. n. (OED, 2., 1921) 1912 _N.Y. Times_ 5 Sept. 10 There is practically no special American golf slang. They talk about shooting a round in a certain score, and when they play a hole under par they call it "Birdie." Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 16 18:16:34 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:16:34 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" in Golf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 02:14:03PM -0400, Fred Shapiro wrote: > > Perhaps Barry can beat this using the Washington Post... > > > birdie. n. (OED, 2., 1921) > > 192 _N.Y. Times_ 12 Sept. 10 There is practically no special American ^^^ I don't think the WP goes back that far.... > golf slang. They talk about shooting a round in a certain score, and when > they play a hole under par they call it "Birdie." Jesse Sheidlower OED From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 16 18:26:04 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:26:04 EDT Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-semitic slur Message-ID: In a message dated 4/16/2003 1:05:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, jester at PANIX.COM writes: > The article does draw a connection between _shyster_ and Shylock A phonetic connection between "shyster" and "shylock" seems rather strained to me. The second syllables diverge too much. Much more likely, it seems to me, is a phonetic conection between "shyster" and the surname "Shuster" which is frequently assumed to be a Jewish name. Maybe this is because I once was acquainted with a man named Shuster, who was in a business deal with some friends of mine that went sour and into court. My friends called him "Shuster the shyster" although he was neither a lawyer nor the plaintiff. Interesting to note that "a pound of flesh" has become such a cliche that it is frequently used by people who do not consciously realize that it is from "Merchant of Venice", and in fact some users of the cliche are totally ignorant of the origin of the term. From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 16 18:29:38 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:29:38 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Birdie" as a Verb In-Reply-To: <20030416181634.GA328@panix.com> Message-ID: birdie, v. (OED 1956) 1926 _N.Y. Times_ 18 Oct. 27 Sarazen chopped off another when he birdied on a par 3. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mam at THEWORLD.COM Wed Apr 16 20:50:11 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:50:11 -0400 Subject: troops In-Reply-To: <000401c3035d$59fcfde0$1c15fea9@ibm12258> Message-ID: This usage is nothing new. I seem to recall being prescriptively warned against this in my high school grammar books in the early sixties. That doesn't mean I like it! -- Mark A. Mandel From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 16 22:20:06 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:20:06 -0500 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur Message-ID: I see several people have already responded on "shyster." The phonetic similarity of "shyster" and "Shylock" is merely coincidence. And in spoken usage I do not see "shyster" as limited in any way to just Jewish lawyers. Dishonest lawyers/businessmen/etc. of *any* confession may appropriately be termed "shysters." "Shyster" is such a forcefully expressive word that it would be a shame to see it marginalized by misapplied political correctness. It is the main lexical contribution of crusading NYC editor of _The Subterranean_ (1843-1844ff), Mike Walsh. The term derives from British cant "shiser" (= somebody worthless), which in turn derives from German "Scheisser" (same meaning, as in: "ein alter Scheisser"), ultimately from German Scheisse (excrement). So, leave "shyster" alone. Our language will be poorer (and unjustifiably so), if the term is ruled inadmissable in print or vigorous speech. Gerald Cohen author of _Origin of the Term "Shyster"_, (Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang Verlag, 1982); _Origin of the Term "Shyster": Supplementary Information_ (Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang, 1984); "'Shyster' Again--An Update", in: _Studies in Slang_, part 2, 1989 (Frankfurt a.M.: Peter Lang; edited by Gerald Leonard Cohen), pp. 91-96; "Update on 'Shyster', in _Studies in Slang, part 5_, 1997 (Frankfurt a.M.: Peter Lang), pp.152-159--information primarily from Barry Popik; "Update on 'Shyster'--co-authored with Barry Popik, _Studies in Slang_, part 6, 1999 (Frankfurt a.M.: Peter Lang),pp.31-40. >At 12:24 PM -0400 4/16/03, Jesse Sheidlower wrote: > >The lead editorial in this week's _New York Observer_ takes >the _National Review_ to task for using _shyster_ in a >headline. They call it "a deplorable and demeaning word which >has traditionally been loaded with anti-Semitism," and make >some etymological comments that will no doubt upset Professor >Cohen. > >It's online at http://www.observer.com, via the link to the >"Opinions" section; the site uses some frame system so I >can't provide a direct link. > >Jesse Sheidlower >OED From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 17 00:47:59 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:47:59 -0400 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The phonetic similarity of "shyster" and "Shylock" is merely coincidence. >And in spoken usage I do not see "shyster" as limited in any way to >just Jewish lawyers. Dishonest lawyers/businessmen/etc. of *any* >confession may appropriately be termed "shysters." > > "Shyster" is such a forcefully expressive word that it would be a >shame to see it marginalized by misapplied political correctness. .... > > So, leave "shyster" alone. Our language will be poorer (and >unjustifiably so), if the term is ruled inadmissable in print or >vigorous speech. I agree. I have never perceived "shyster" as having any ethnic/religious connection, and I've never heard anybody suggest such a thing. A better argument could be made for "shylock" = "loan-shark" although in my experience this too lacks any Semitic or anti-Semitic character in popular use. -- Doug Wilson From dwhause at JOBE.NET Thu Apr 17 01:10:53 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:10:53 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane Campbell" Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for "Nothing is ever easy"? From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 17 01:36:17 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Nomme de Cybre Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 17 01:36:17 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: first American cookbook? Message-ID: This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion Cunningham's column: "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all grades of life." The title may have been longer than the book... Rima From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Thu Apr 17 01:57:30 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:57:30 -0400 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Isn't there a sort of disagreement between "nullus" and "facile"? "Nihil" or "Nil" (as Erin McKean said) may be better. T. M. P. www.paikeday.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hause" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Latin help, please? > I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." > Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net > Ft. Leonard Wood, MO > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duane Campbell" > > Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for > "Nothing is ever easy"? > From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Thu Apr 17 02:05:32 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:05:32 -0700 Subject: first American cookbook? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I look at the excerpt quoted by Rima and wonder - when were nouns no longer capitalized in English? Was there a turning point, or was this a gradual occurrence? I note that some words (like English) are still capitalized, but most others (pastes, puffs, pies) are not. cheers - Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Kim & Rima McKinzey Sent: April 16, 2003 6:36 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: first American cookbook? This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion Cunningham's column: "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all grades of life." The title may have been longer than the book... Rima From self at TOWSE.COM Thu Apr 17 02:14:05 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:14:05 -0700 Subject: first American cookbook? Message-ID: Kim & Rima McKinzey wrote: > > This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion > Cunningham's column: > > "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published > in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was > called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, > Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, > Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from > the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all > grades of life." > > The title may have been longer than the book... I checked to make sure Cunningham hadn't mentioned it, because I'd run across this cookbook online earlier this year. Images of this cookbook's pages are available online through Feeding America: The American Cookbook Project at Michigan State. Fun stuff. Some of the books are searchable by recipe title and ingredient. Popping "lemon pudding" (the subject of Cunningham's column) into the search brings interesting results. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From dwhause at JOBE.NET Thu Apr 17 02:45:03 2003 From: dwhause at JOBE.NET (Dave Hause) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:45:03 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Couldn't argue that; most recent Latin class being a little short of 39 years ago. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas M. Paikeday" Isn't there a sort of disagreement between "nullus" and "facile"? "Nihil" or "Nil" (as Erin McKean said) may be better. T. M. P. www.paikeday.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hause" > I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." > Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net > Ft. Leonard Wood, MO > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duane Campbell" > > Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for > "Nothing is ever easy"? > From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 03:48:37 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:48:37 -0400 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: <020d01c3048b$59a42240$b6bf22d0@dwhause> Message-ID: >Couldn't argue that; most recent Latin class being a little short of 39 >years ago. >Dave Likewise, but I agree with Tom that "facilis" would be the appropriate form to modify "nullus", and that in any case "ni(hi)l" would be better than "nullus" (and would also allow neuter "facile" as a modifier). I wouldn't wager my cat on it, though. Larry >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Thomas M. Paikeday" > > >Isn't there a sort of disagreement between "nullus" and "facile"? "Nihil" or >"Nil" (as Erin McKean said) may be better. >T. M. P. >www.paikeday.net > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Hause" > >> I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." >> Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net >> Ft. Leonard Wood, MO >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Duane Campbell" >> >> Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for >> "Nothing is ever easy"? >> From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 17 07:43:42 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:43:42 -0400 Subject: FW: first American cookbook? Message-ID: What Rima McK says below is true, and it is also the case that the book was published in Hartford, Connecticut. Betcha didn't know that Hartford was the home of American cooking, huh? Frank Abate author, Connecticut Trivia (2001) ************************* This was in today's (Wed. April 16th) SF Chronicle, in Marion Cunningham's column: "The first American cookbook - a thin little volume - was published in 1796, written by Amelia Simmons, an American orphan. It was called 'American Cookery, or the art of dressing Viands, Fish, Poultry and Vegetables, and the modes of making Pastes, Puffs, Pies, Tarts, Puddings, Custards and Preserves, and all kinds of Cakes, from the imperial Plumb to Plain Cake. Adapted to this country, and all grades of life." The title may have been longer than the book... Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 10:37:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 06:37:06 EDT Subject: Chianti (1805); CPL & NYPL Message-ID: Another Passover with the family. My nephew, who has autism, is now 170 pounds. He's only 11...My niece read a passage ("...out of Egypt, a nation great, mighty, and numerous") and said: "brought us out of Egypt, a nation great, mighty, and humorous." Holy Moses! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- CHIANTI A PRACTICAL TREATISE ON BREWING, DISTILLING AND RECITIFICATION ...WITH A COPIOUS APPENDIX ON THE CULTURE AND PREPARATION OF FOREIGN WINES, BRANDIES, AND VINEGARS by R. Shannon London: Robert Scholey 1805 OED and Merriam-Webster have 1833 for "Chianti." The OXFORD COMPANION TO WINE says "Chianti" has been around since 1398. APPENDIX: Pg. 146: ...Those of the hills are a very pleasant drink about Christmas, and during the spring; but until June the Chiantis are not esteemed to be fit for drinking, though they are fit for exportation in butts in December;... Pg. 146: (OED accuses me of breaking up sentences, but much of the stuff runs like this--ed.) The art of brewing, or making-up, wines (further than the throwing into each great butt the quantity of two or three hatsful of the choicest grapes they had preserved, and laid on mats in the sun for that purpose, which were picked from the stalks, and are esteemed (Pg. 147--ed.) proper for their wines to feed on, and which they call governo) was not known in Chianti, (though the hosts here practised something like it, mixing the small wines of the country, with the strong ones of other parts; and fining their white-wines with isinglass, whites of eggs, lime, and the like; and were thought to put alum into their red wines to preserve them, and promote a thirst in their guests) till on the breaking out of the first French war, an English merchant from _Bourdeaux_ came into these parts, with a view to accommodate the wines which were made in the best part of Chianti, and were naturally as bright as a ruby, with a pleasant _flavour_, and a silky softness, to the English palates, then in love with the deep-coloured rough clarets; who instructed them first in the making of black wines, with the Labrusco, or wild grape; which being mixed with the Chiantis, gave them a deeper colour, and a rougher taste; and being liked in England, gave the first occasion to great quantities being sent, thither every year in casks; in the making of which the said gentleman was the first that instructed them; for before, their casks were, as aboved related, very unwieldy. Pg. 164: The Morillon Taconne, or Munier, _i. e._ the _Miller's Grape_; this is called the _Burgundy_ grape in England. The leaves of this sort are very much powdered with white, especially in the spring, when they first come out, from whence it had the name of the _Miller's Grape_. It produces middle-size black grapes, which grow close upon the bunches, and are generally short and thick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- CHICAGO PUBLIC LIBRARY I've now used the Chicago Public Library's e-mail reference twice. The first time, as you know, I told the CPL that its "Windy City" explanation was wrong. I got a response that I posted here. At least one "Windy City" definition was supposed to have been changed, but _nothing_ has been changed: http://www.chipublib.org/008subject/005genref/faqwindy.html http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/chinicknames.html Recently, I asked the CPL about the CHICAGO TRIBUNE from ProQuest. Often, an organization such as the Chicago Public Library will be given an advance, beta-testing version of the product. I have since gotten an answer from ProQuest that I posted here, about a month ago. The CPL's web page says that it responds in a week. FWIW, I finally got a CPL response: Subj: Response from CPL E-Mail Reference Team Date: 4/16/2003 5:07:23 PM Eastern Standard Time From: refdesk at chipublib.org To: Bapopik at aol.com Dear Mr. Barry Popik: We are contacting you in reply to your E-Mail reference question. Your question was: full text version of Chicago Tribune from ProQuest Answer: We checked among our colleagues here and found that the only full text version of the Chicago Tribune available through ProQuest is for a few years previous to 1997. The Tribune itself began indexing only in 1972. The years 1972 through the mid 1980s are indexed in book form. Previous to 1972, there is no in-depth indexing of this newspaper at all. The Tribune is involved currently in preparing a retrospective index. We are not sure when this will be completed, or exactly which years it will cover. Called the Chicago Tribune Historical Archive, it is available to us in an abbreviated form. We find often that it is spotty in its coverage An event or person may, or may not, appear.If you have a particular item for us to search, we would be glad to see if we could find it. Source: CPL information and policy We hope this information is useful and you will use CPL E-Mail Reference in the future. CPL E-Mail Reference Team ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY Mayor Michael Bloomberg has announced his doomsday budget, so I guess I should be happy that any library is open at any time. As I've said before, almost all of my food books are off-site, either in the annex (on West 43rd Street) or in New Jersey. A Thursday request will get there on Tuesday afternoon at the earliest. Look at the following: Call # CIS *XLF-373 US Exec MF A1003-68 Title Description of some Chinese vegetable food materials and their nutritive and economic value [microform]. Imprint [Washington, D.C.] : U.S. G.P.O., 1899. LOCATION CALL # STATUS SIBL CIS *XLF-373 US Exec MF A1003-68 Location SIBL Govt. doc# A 10.3:68 Descript 48 p. : ill. ; cm. Series Experiment Station Bull. No. 68 Experiment Stations Office Pub. No. 301 US Executive Branch Documents, 1789-1909; no. A1003-68 Note [With data] References CIS Index to U.S. Executive Branch Documents, 1789-1909 Part 4 Note Microfiche. [Bethesda, Md.]: Congressional Information Service, 1993. 11 x 15 cm. (CIS US Executive Branch Documents, 1789-1909: no. A1003-68) Subject Vegetables, Chinese. Add'l name Blasdale, Walter Charles, b. 1871. Sounds great. Maybe there's "snow peas." It's not available. Not only that, but the whole microfilm shelf (the VARIETIES OF CHEESE microfilm is around this call number) of agricultural publications is missing. EVERYTHING IS MISSING. I went from librarian to librarian to librarian. The stuff just disappeared without a trace. Recently, I requested stuff like this: Call # VPZ (United States. Dept. of agriculture. Department bulletin. no.1282) Author Wood, Milo N. (Milo Nelson), 1883- Title Almond varieties in the United States / by Milo N. Wood. Imprint Washington, D.C. : U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, 1924. LOCATION CALL # STATUS Humanities-Genrl Res VPZ (United States. Dept. of agriculture. Department bulletin. no.1282) Location Humanities-Genrl Res Descript 142 p., 26 p. of plates : ill., 1 map ; 24 cm. Series Department bulletin (United States. Dept. of Agriculture) ; no. 1282. Note Cover title. "December, 1924." Subject Almond -- United States -- Varieties. Again, check the call number. I requested a large number of Department of Agriculture publications, from MARKETING LETTUCE to SOY AND RELATED FERMENTATIONS to MARKETING PEANUTS to RETAIL MARKETING OF MEATS to MARKETING CREAMERY BUTTER to MARKETING CABBAGE to SOME NEW VARIETIES OF RICE to THE NAVEL ORANGE OF BAHIA. Absolutely essential, wonderful stuff. Naturally, all were off-site. And I got back-- nothing. First, the materials were supposed to be at the 43rd Street annex. Then, New Jersey was searched. I checked back day after day after day. Librarians were working on it. Today, I got a response that was e-mailed to 20 librarians for me: "After a thorough search for Mr. Popik's material VPZ U.S. Dept. of Agri., Bull #'s, the final report to Mr. Popik would be the material is _unavailable_." Everything is unavailable. They just don't know where any of the books are. A librarian handed me the e-mail and said, "I feel that we've failed you." Which all means that some time next week, and probably frequently, I'll go again to the Library of Congress. I like to look up a missing book (or two) at the LOC. But we're talking about a LOT of books here. Trips to Washington take time and aren't free. Just a minute, I need some "bread of affliction" here... From mkuha at BSU.EDU Thu Apr 17 12:01:14 2003 From: mkuha at BSU.EDU (Mai Kuha) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:01:14 -0500 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you guys" is used to address all women, and only women. -Mai From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Thu Apr 17 12:11:57 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:11:57 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not particularly interesting up here in the frozen North (East Lansing); such usage is common. More recently, even "guys" without "you" has moved into this territory. I heard a young woman yell to friends of hers just the other day "Hey Guys! Wait up! Even this may have been around here longer than I think (since my principal channels of communication are with aged graduate students and colleagues). dInIs To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you guys" is used to address all women, and only women. -Mai -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 12:53:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:53:49 EDT Subject: Mission Fig & Smyrna Fig (1888) Message-ID: "Mission fig" is not in the revised OED. I've had this around for a while now thinking I could do better, but might as well post it. Every book mentions "mission fig." FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION: "...hence the now-popular Mission fig." OXFORD COMPANION TO FOOD: "In 1769 the Franciscan mission at San Diego was founded and began to grow a Spanish black common fig which (under the names of Mission or Franciscana) came to be a leading variety." Mariani's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK: "...the Mission fig owes it name to the Spanish missions set up in California, in the 1700s, where 100 percent of the fig crop is cultivated, predominantly around Madera, Fresno, and Merced counties. Today the most important varieties of figs cultivated are the 'mission,' 'Calimyrna,' 'San Pedro,' 'Kadota,' 'Adriatic,' and 'Brown Turkey.'" The leading variety of fig--not in the revised OED. And the Smyrna fig? A check of the OED shows "Smyrna fig" was coined in the 1897 Sears Roebuck Catalogue. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE DIVISION OF POMOLOGY Bulletin No. 1 REPORT ON THE CONDITION OF TROPICAL AND SEMI-TROPICAL FRUITS IN THE UNITED STATES IN 1887 Washington: Government Printing Office 1888 Pg. 111: TROPICAL AND SEMI-TROPICAL FRUITS OF CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA, AND NEW MEXICO (Report dated October 15, 1887--ed.) Pg. 140: MISSION The common fig in California is the so-called Mission, raised either from seed by the missionary fathers or brought from Mexico. It is a large vigorous-growing tree, instances of which have been given above, the fruit is small and dark colored. It is an abundant bearer, and its fruit, when properly dried, is very good, and we understand sells quite well in the eastern markets. This fig bears considerably the third and fourth year from cuttings. There exist in California quite a number of varieties of figs the nomenclature of which is in great confusion. The San Pedro is what has been generally called the White Smyrna, a fine eating variety, but not adapted to drying; greenish-white, white flesh, small seeds. From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 14:14:42 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:14:42 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 7:01 AM -0500 4/17/03, Mai Kuha wrote: >To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too >many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you >guys" is used to address all women, and only women. > >-Mai > Right, but only given that particular context. Cf. "I'm glad I'm not a linguist--you guys have too many issues to deal with!"--designating linguists and only linguists. It's not that "you guys" conventionally designates women per se but only that it can be anaphorically linked to a set of addressees salient in the context. It's the loss of the [+ male] feature not the acquisition of a [- male] one that's involved. Larry From jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 17 14:35:09 2003 From: jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM (James Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:35:09 -0700 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- Gerald Cohen wrote: > I see several people have already responded on > "shyster." The > phonetic similarity of "shyster" and "Shylock" is > merely coincidence. > And in spoken usage I do not see "shyster" as > limited in any way to > just Jewish lawyers. Dishonest > lawyers/businessmen/etc. of *any* > confession may appropriately be termed > "shysters." .... > > Gerald Cohen .... I have freely used 'shyster' to refer to lawyers irrespective of race, color, creed , or sex. Hard as it might be for some to accept, there are vast regions of this land where 'lawyer' does not automatically associate with 'jew'. Having said that, in Casper WY in the 70s, I frequently walked by the office of a lawyer named Shylock, and I thought he had a lot of guts to put that name on the door. (Shylock is one of numerous possible variants - such as Shryrock, Shyrock, Shylok, Shylox, Shilok, Shillock, Schillach, etc. - on family names. When young, I confused Shylock and Sherlock, thinking them to be the one and same famous detective.) ===== James D. SMITH |If history teaches anything South SLC, UT |it is that we will be sued jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com |whether we act quickly and decisively |or slowly and cautiously. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From Jewls2u at WHIDBEY.COM Thu Apr 17 14:49:10 2003 From: Jewls2u at WHIDBEY.COM (Jewls2u) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:49:10 -0700 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My daughter is four. She has named her hands and feet after the Wiggles (Children's show; Greg, Anthony, Jeff and Murry), they are her "guys". We were in the paint store and she said hello to the cute boy mixing our cans with "Hey...you...big...guy". He was a big guy, especially to a then three year old. But, when she wants people to gather around to look at something, or follow her it's "Hey guys, over here" or "Come quick guys, look at this". Julienne -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Dennis R. Preston Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:12 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: you guys Not particularly interesting up here in the frozen North (East Lansing); such usage is common. More recently, even "guys" without "you" has moved into this territory. I heard a young woman yell to friends of hers just the other day "Hey Guys! Wait up! Even this may have been around here longer than I think (since my principal channels of communication are with aged graduate students and colleagues). dInIs To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you guys" is used to address all women, and only women. -Mai -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From TJoyce at BELLBOYD.COM Thu Apr 17 14:58:29 2003 From: TJoyce at BELLBOYD.COM (Joyce, Thomas F.) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:58:29 -0500 Subject: Latin help, please? Message-ID: Not a precise translation of your English, but there is a Latin motto to the effect "Non palma sine pulvere," i.e., no palm of victory without the dust of struggle. I don't know the provenance. Tom Joyce -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hause [mailto:dwhause at JOBE.NET] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:11 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Latin help, please? I would render that as "Nullus umquam facile est." Dave Hause, dwhause at jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane Campbell" Would someone please be kind enough to provide me with the Latin for "Nothing is ever easy"? ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. From jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 17 15:02:35 2003 From: jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM (James Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:02:35 -0700 Subject: shyster, shylock Message-ID: I looked-up ?shyster? in my handy Webster?s New Collegiate (1977). It gives the etymology as from Mr. Scheuster, an attorney ?frequently rebuked in a New York court for pettifoggery?. Any credence to that? In this dictionary, 'shyster? immediately follows ?shylock?; if this is common in most dictionaries, it probably reinforces an association between the two words. (The etymology for ?shylock? identifies Shakespeare's Shylock as an usurer, not a lawyer.) ===== James D. SMITH |If history teaches anything South SLC, UT |it is that we will be sued jsmithjamessmith at yahoo.com |whether we act quickly and decisively |or slowly and cautiously. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:28:51 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:28:51 -0700 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been hiding in the weeds on this one, figuring that someone at a good Jesuit institution would step onto the stage and give us all the real stuff from Boethius or St. Jerome--or that most frequently cited author, Ibid. And maybe that will be forthcoming. In the meantime, I agree that nullus won't work because it's masculine--and, besides, it's an adjective. Ni(hi)l is the best candidate, as suggested earlier; and the est doesn't have to be at the end of the sentence, although other Latin verbs like to hang out there. Note: Est fides credere quod nondum vides: 'Faith is believing what you don't see' --and I have faith that a real classicist will appear who can give us an authentic answer on this one and reinforce my wish that Latin were still a solid part of the K-12 curriculum. In any case, Larry's cat is safe with the neuter _facile_, and I won't pursue the "neuter" and "cat" line. PR > Likewise, but I agree with Tom that "facilis" would be the > appropriate form to modify "nullus", and that in any case "ni(hi)l" > would be better than "nullus" (and would also allow neuter "facile" > as a modifier). I wouldn't wager my cat on it, though. > > Larry From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:43:57 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:43:57 -0700 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With the corrections to the "nullus" suggestion making it increasingly apparent what that version might sound like to a native speaker, I'm reminded of a hilarious scene in the Monty Python movie The Life of Brian. Ever seen it? PMc --On Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:28 AM -0700 Peter Richardson wrote: > I've been hiding in the weeds on this one, figuring that someone at a good > Jesuit institution would step onto the stage and give us all the real > stuff from Boethius or St. Jerome--or that most frequently cited author, > Ibid. And maybe that will be forthcoming. In the meantime, I agree that > nullus won't work because it's masculine--and, besides, it's an adjective. > Ni(hi)l is the best candidate, as suggested earlier; and the est doesn't > have to be at the end of the sentence, although other Latin verbs like to > hang out there. Note: > > Est fides credere quod nondum vides: 'Faith is believing what you don't > see' > --and I have faith that a real classicist will appear who can > give us an authentic answer on this one and reinforce my wish that Latin > were still a solid part of the K-12 curriculum. > > In any case, Larry's cat is safe with the neuter _facile_, and I won't > pursue the "neuter" and "cat" line. > > PR > >> Likewise, but I agree with Tom that "facilis" would be the >> appropriate form to modify "nullus", and that in any case "ni(hi)l" >> would be better than "nullus" (and would also allow neuter "facile" >> as a modifier). I wouldn't wager my cat on it, though. >> >> Larry ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:47:09 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:47:09 -0700 Subject: Latin help, please? In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1050569037@[10.218.201.115]> Message-ID: Oops! Now I've done it, too. That last message was meant to go to Peter Richardson, not to the list. Sorry! Peter Mc. ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Thu Apr 17 15:48:44 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:48:44 -0700 Subject: Looting vs theft Message-ID: When is looting not theft? Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the Iraq museum was most likel a "well-executed theft." Quark out Lower Umpqua Addictive Conundrum Institute From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:57:00 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:57:00 -0400 Subject: Looting vs theft In-Reply-To: <000801c304f8$d75861c0$6501a8c0@p417vc11> Message-ID: At 8:48 AM -0700 4/17/03, mark worden wrote: >When is looting not theft? > >Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the >Iraq museum was most likel a "well-executed theft." > Looting is always theft, but not vice versa. The latter can be premeditated, as in all those caper movies, but the former is presumably spur-of-the-moment. a carefully (or cleverly) planned (or well-executed) {theft/#looting} larry From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 15:56:23 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:56:23 -0400 Subject: Looting vs theft In-Reply-To: <000801c304f8$d75861c0$6501a8c0@p417vc11> Message-ID: mark worden wrote: >When is looting not theft? > >Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the >Iraq museum was most likel a "well-executed theft." > > Well, I'd say all looting is theft but not all theft is looting. Looting, to me,carries a connotation of being opportunistic rather than planned. -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Thu Apr 17 16:07:08 2003 From: zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:07:08 -0700 Subject: Looting vs theft Message-ID: mark worden (mworden at wizzards.net) asks: >When is looting not theft? >Several news stories have stated that the antiquities taken from the >Iraq museum was most likel[y] a "well-executed theft." looting certainly is theft; it's spontaneous, largely unplanned theft (involving taking by force, usually by crudely breaking into buildings). what the news stories were suggesting was that the taking of antiquities had in fact been planned and carefully executed; specific antiquities were, the claim is, targeted and spirited away, probably to sell to collectors. meanwhile, there was a lot of just plain looting going on, which would provide excellent cover for a well-executed theft. episodes of widespread looting very frequently are taken advantage of by thieves with specific objects in mind. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From mkuha at BSU.EDU Thu Apr 17 17:41:38 2003 From: mkuha at BSU.EDU (Mai Kuha) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:41:38 -0600 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Definitely--that's what I meant. Thanks for the clarification. And, as was pointed out earlier, this is yesterday's news in the north. Around here, though (Indiana, supposedly just north of the Hoosier Apex, although the reality of regional variation is more complex than that, of course) it hasn't been all that clear to me whether "you guys" or "y'all" is going to win. I regularly hear students voice the opinion that it's sexist to address women as "guys". -Mai on 4/17/03 8:14 AM, Laurence Horn at laurence.horn at YALE.EDU wrote: > ...It's not that "you guys" > conventionally designates women per se but only that it can be > anaphorically linked to a set of addressees salient in the context. > It's the loss of the [+ male] feature not the acquisition of a [- > male] one that's involved. > > Larry > From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 17 16:34:07 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:34:07 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vocative "guys" alone has been around a long time, I suspect; I hear it all the time addressed to either men alone, women alone, or a mixed group. But third person "guys" referring to women alone may be more recent and would presumably require clarification: "All the guys said they'd come." Similarly, "we guys" (or "us guys") would be clear or unclear depending on the sex of the speaker. At 08:11 AM 4/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Not particularly interesting up here in the frozen North (East >Lansing); such usage is common. More recently, even "guys" without >"you" has moved into this territory. I heard a young woman yell to >friends of hers just the other day "Hey Guys! Wait up! Even this may >have been around here longer than I think (since my principal >channels of communication are with aged graduate students and >colleagues). > >dInIs > >To clarift my first message, "I'm glad I'm not a woman--you guys have too >many issues to deal with!" seemed particularly interesting because "you >guys" is used to address all women, and only women. > >-Mai > >-- >Dennis R. Preston >Professor of Linguistics >Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, > Asian & African Languages >Michigan State University >East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 >e-mail: preston at msu.edu >phone: (517) 353-9290 From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 16:45:21 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:45:21 EDT Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur Message-ID: In a message dated 4/17/03 10:35:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmithjamessmith at YAHOO.COM writes: > (Shylock is one of numerous > possible variants - such as Shryrock, Shyrock, > Shylok, Shylox, Shilok, Shillock, Schillach, etc. - on > family names. When young, I confused Shylock and > Sherlock, thinking them to be the one and same famous > detective.) I went to Gideon Shryock Elementary School and never made the connection to "Shylock". (Gideon Shryock was a 19th-Century Kentucky architect who designed several notable public buildings. One teacher insisted that the Shryock family pronounced the name as one syllable, with the "y" silent, but everyone else used two syllables /'shreye ahk/.) As to why Shakespeare gave his Jewish merchant (note the title of the play, which perhaps should have been "The Merchants of Venice") such a WASP name, the answer is that circa 1600 the English were only familiar with Sephardic Jews who had names like Spinoza or Mendez. To an Elizabethan audience, "Shylock" was as plausible a name for a Jew as such rearly heard German concoctions as "Goldstein" or "Rosenberg." Note "Rosencrantz" and "Guildenstern", both of whom were Gentiles. - Jim Landau From douglas at NB.NET Thu Apr 17 16:42:56 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:42:56 -0400 Subject: Looting vs theft In-Reply-To: <200304171607.h3HG78Js000385@Turing.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: >looting certainly is theft; it's spontaneous, largely unplanned theft >(involving taking by force, usually by crudely breaking into >buildings). But I think the word "looting" can very reasonably be applied to the planned theft of a museum's contents. There is a pertinent distinction between the transitive and intransitive use of "loot" maybe. RHUD gives for transitive "loot": <<6. to carry off or take (something) as loot: [example:] _to loot a nation's art treasures._ 7. to despoil by taking loot; plunder or pillage (a city, house, etc.), as in war. 8. to rob, as by burglary or corrupt activity in public office: [example:] _to loot the public treasury._>> -- Doug Wilson From madonna at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Thu Apr 17 17:01:08 2003 From: madonna at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Sylvia Swift) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:01:08 -0700 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: <200304171643.h3HGhBIV012663@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: i grew up in wyoming (you guys land) and spent summers in tennessee (you all land) and cannot get by without a you-plural that is distinct from you-singular. i often use guy/guys as a gender neutral placeholder for person/persons. this worked fine for me in wyoming, rhode island, and oregon. here in california, i am "corrected" several times a day by interlocuters who think i have misidentified the gender of the person for whom the place is being held in my utterance. i persist in using guy/guys this way. i am a film guy, the woman who takes care of the vacation and sick leave is the timesheet guy, the woman we hired yesterday is the new guy, and so on. sylvia swift madonna at socrates.berkeley.edu From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 17:15:12 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:15:12 -0700 Subject: N.Y. Observer: "shyster" is anti-Semitic slur In-Reply-To: <3e.2e4a0bc2.2bd03421@aol.com> Message-ID: Still another spelling: I went to high school with a Francine Schriock, whose name, like the Shryock cited below, was pronounced "shrock". Like Jim Landau, I never associated it with Shylock until this moment. Peter mc. --On Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:45 PM -0400 "James A. Landau" wrote: >> (Shylock is one of numerous >> possible variants - such as Shryrock, Shyrock, >> Shylok, Shylox, Shilok, Shillock, Schillach, etc. - on >> family names. When young, I confused Shylock and >> Sherlock, thinking them to be the one and same famous >> detective.) > > I went to Gideon Shryock Elementary School and never made the connection > to "Shylock". > > (Gideon Shryock was a 19th-Century Kentucky architect who designed several > notable public buildings. One teacher insisted that the Shryock family > pronounced the name as one syllable, with the "y" silent, but everyone > else used two syllables /'shreye ahk/.) ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM Thu Apr 17 20:01:57 2003 From: ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM (Barnhart) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:01:57 -0500 Subject: looting Message-ID: The idea of looting (vs. theft) is well detailed in OED. The central idea stems from the Sanskrit term lotra, loptra which means "booty, spoil." The definition is goods (esp. articles of considerable value) taken from an enemy, a captured city, etc. in time of war; also in wider sense. something taken by force or violence... Regards, David barnhart at highlands.com From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 18:45:56 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:45:56 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mai Kuha writes on sex-neutral "(you) guys": > And, as was >pointed out earlier, this is yesterday's news in the north. Around here, >though (Indiana, supposedly just north of the Hoosier Apex, although the >reality of regional variation is more complex than that, of course) it >hasn't been all that clear to me whether "you guys" or "y'all" is going to >win. I regularly hear students voice the opinion that it's sexist to address >women as "guys". > ...a position that Douglas Hofstadter (1997) has expounded upon in some detail (Le Ton beau de Marot: In Praise of the Music of Language, p. 202). For a different view, see Steven J. Clancy (1999), "The ascent of guy," American Speech 74: 282-97. Larry From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 18:51:32 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:51:32 -0400 Subject: you guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >i grew up in wyoming (you guys land) and spent summers in tennessee >(you all land) and cannot get by without a you-plural that is >distinct from you-singular. i often use guy/guys as a gender >neutral placeholder for person/persons. this worked fine for me in >wyoming, rhode island, and oregon. here in california, i am >"corrected" several times a day by interlocuters who think i have >misidentified the gender of the person for whom the place is being >held in my utterance. > >i persist in using guy/guys this way. i am a film guy, the woman who >takes care of the vacation and sick leave is the timesheet guy, the >woman we hired yesterday is the new guy, and so on. > >sylvia swift >madonna at socrates.berkeley.edu This represents an extension of the sex-neutrality from the vocative "you guys" to the use of "guys" for the addressee set to the plural description "the guys" (as in the Geno Auriemma examples I cited earlier, where he refers to his women's team as "the guys" or singles out "the young guys", etc.) to the singular in Sylvia's examples. The last is the only use that I haven't heard much around here (Connecticut), but I would imagine it might be creeping in. There's a nice illustration in that Clancy paper in _American Speech_ I cited in my last note: Steppenwolf was four people and I'm just one guy. -actress Joan Allen hosting Saturday Night Live, 11/14/98, cited in Clancy (1999:287) From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Thu Apr 17 19:35:02 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:35:02 -0700 Subject: you guys Message-ID: >i persist in using guy/guys this way. i am a film guy, the woman who >takes care of the vacation and sick leave is the timesheet guy, > the woman we hired yesterday is the new guy, and so on. I'm with ya, Sylvia. After all, our mailman is a woman. (Many of my students say their mailmen are women, too) Fritz sylvia swift madonna at socrates.berkeley.edu From jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET Thu Apr 17 20:03:03 2003 From: jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET (Jim McKee) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:03:03 -0500 Subject: Hello from a newbie Message-ID: Hi everyone - I just joined the List yesterday hoping as an amateur to keep up better with what official dialectologists are thinking and saying! The things I've noticed lately - admittedly off topic; forgive me! - include an epidemic of speakers saying "The point is is that ...." or even "The problem was is that...", and the EMT's heard on my local police scanner saying, "Transporting one non-emergent." The latter may be regional - I am near Mississippi State University, but the former, I hear mostly on the radio from all over. Another thing that has intrigued me for years is that occasionally on a TV cop or detective show someone will say "I consulted a linguist at the University and he said that caller has a West Texas accent." Similarly, in a book, a woman was identified by consultation with a linguist as being Native American because a specific pronunciation feature indicated a bilingual childhood environment, etc. I'm just wonderng if the writers of these TV shows and books really have existing "linguists" in mind, and, if so, how they know which linguist at which university to consult, since dialectology is often very specialized. In any case, the use of "you guys" has definitely filtered down to my part of the country, mostly age-group specific as you might imagine. Jim From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 21:21:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:21:27 -0400 Subject: Bakery (1803) Message-ID: "Bakery." Clearly, one of the most important words of all time. OED and Merriam-Webster have about 1820. I didn't find it at all in the PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE (up to 1800) on Accessible Archives. There are earlier American Periodical Series "hits," but I found a few "baker's" and couldn't find the "bakery." Balance and Columbian Repository (1802-1807), Albany; Sep 20, 1803; Vol. 2, Iss. 38 111. Hudson, September 20, 1803. Bonaparte has proposed terms to Louis XVIII. offering him a princely establishment...; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs 112. Latest foreign intelligence. Paris, June 20; Anonymous; pg. 302, 2 pgs 113. New-Brunswick, Sept. 1; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs 114. The Knell. At Cambridge, (Massachusetts) 27th August, the Rev. David Tappan...; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs 115. The knot. Married; Anonymous; pg. 303, 1 pgs Pg. 303: On the morning of the 9th inst. a fire broke out in the Bakery of a Mr. Frazer, in Cliff Street, New-York, which destroyed ten dwelling-houses. From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 17 21:15:49 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:15:49 -0400 Subject: Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <20649-3E9F0877-1618@storefull-2274.public.lawson.webtv.net > Message-ID: I've been working on the first construction for a couple of years now, and you're absolutely right--it's spreading like crazy. I think we have a thread on this in the archives too--anyone? (And it's not off topic at all!) At 03:03 PM 4/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi everyone - I just joined the List yesterday hoping as an amateur to >keep up better with what official dialectologists are thinking and >saying! >The things I've noticed lately - admittedly off topic; forgive me! - >include an epidemic of speakers saying "The point is is that ...." or >even "The problem was is that...", and the EMT's heard on my local >police scanner saying, "Transporting one non-emergent." The latter may >be regional - I am near Mississippi State University, but the former, I >hear mostly on the radio from all over. >Another thing that has intrigued me for years is that occasionally on a >TV cop or detective show someone will say "I consulted a linguist at the >University and he said that caller has a West Texas accent." >Similarly, in a book, a woman was identified by consultation with a >linguist as being Native American because a specific pronunciation >feature indicated a bilingual childhood environment, etc. I'm just >wonderng if the writers of these TV shows and books really have existing >"linguists" in mind, and, if so, how they know which linguist at which >university to consult, since dialectology is often very specialized. >In any case, the use of "you guys" has definitely filtered down to my >part of the country, mostly age-group specific as you might imagine. > >Jim From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Apr 17 21:55:30 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:55:30 -0700 Subject: Hello from a newbie In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030417171325.015cdb10@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: Right you are, Beverly. We had a discussion of "The problem is is that" in mid-December 2001 and on "is is" in January of 2001. allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Beverly Flanigan wrote: > I've been working on the first construction for a couple of years now, and > you're absolutely right--it's spreading like crazy. I think we have a > thread on this in the archives too--anyone? (And it's not off topic at all!) > > At 03:03 PM 4/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi everyone - I just joined the List yesterday hoping as an amateur to > >keep up better with what official dialectologists are thinking and > >saying! > >The things I've noticed lately - admittedly off topic; forgive me! - > >include an epidemic of speakers saying "The point is is that ...." or > >even "The problem was is that...", and the EMT's heard on my local > >police scanner saying, "Transporting one non-emergent." The latter may > >be regional - I am near Mississippi State University, but the former, I > >hear mostly on the radio from all over. > >Another thing that has intrigued me for years is that occasionally on a > >TV cop or detective show someone will say "I consulted a linguist at the > >University and he said that caller has a West Texas accent." > >Similarly, in a book, a woman was identified by consultation with a > >linguist as being Native American because a specific pronunciation > >feature indicated a bilingual childhood environment, etc. I'm just > >wonderng if the writers of these TV shows and books really have existing > >"linguists" in mind, and, if so, how they know which linguist at which > >university to consult, since dialectology is often very specialized. > >In any case, the use of "you guys" has definitely filtered down to my > >part of the country, mostly age-group specific as you might imagine. > > > >Jim > From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:01:57 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:01:57 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030417171325.015cdb10@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is "I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. Peter R. From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:03:28 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:03:28 -0700 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. > Right you are, Beverly. We had a discussion of "The problem is is that" in > mid-December 2001 and on "is is" in January of 2001. PR From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:16:07 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:16:07 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Bakery" In-Reply-To: <7BE57D33.7173FDD8.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: bakery (OED c1820) 1780 George Washington _Let._ 24 May in _Writings of Washington_ (1937) XVIII. 411 Independent of the apartments for the sick, there must be one or more kitchens; an apothecarys shop; a magazine for drugs and remedies; an oven; a bakery. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:17:27 2003 From: maberry at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (A. Maberry) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:17:27 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Since I still have the Archives search page open, there was a discussion of "try and and try to" in mid-July 2000. allen maberry at u.washington.edu On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: > There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try > and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent > substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is > "I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just > fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. > > Peter R. > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 22:23:56 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:23:56 -0400 Subject: Bakeware (1948) & Cookware (1922) Message-ID: BAKEWARE--no OED entry, no Merriam-Webster entry COOKWARE--no OED entry, Merriam-Webster date to 1953 --------------------------------------------------------------- COOKWARE (NEW YORK TIMES, WALL STREET JOURNAL) Stewart-Warner; From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Chicago Bureau; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 5, 1930; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Product will be distributed under trade-mark Stewart Cookware through company's sales branches...") BUSINESS LEASES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 21, 1929; pg. 38, 1 pgs ("Super-Maid Cookware Company of Chicago.") NEW INCORPORATIONS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 15, 1922; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("Aluminum Cookware Mfg. Co., Brooklyn.") (TRADEMARK) Word Mark CLUB ALUMINUM HAMMERCRAFT WATERLESS COOKWARE Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 021. US 013. G & S: CAST ALUMINUM UTENSILS-NAMELY, ALUMINUM SAUCE PANS, ROASTERS, BAKING AND COOKING PANS, FRY PANS, CASSEROLES, COOKING KETTLES, DUTCH OVENS, TEA KETTLES, TEA POTS PERCOLATORS DRIP COFFEE MAKERS, STEAK PLATTERS AND GRIDDLES. FIRST USE: 19290930. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19291231 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 050307 260128 260928 Serial Number 71537987 Filing Date October 16, 1947 Registration Number 0533559 Registration Date November 21, 1950 Owner (REGISTRANT) CLUB ALUMINUM PRODUCTS COMPANY CORPORATION ILLINOIS 1250 FULLERTON AVENUE CHICAGO ILLINOIS Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 0309004 Disclaimer THE WORDS "ALUMINUM," "HAMMERCRAFT WATERLESS COOKWARE" ARE DISCLAIMED APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19701121 Live/Dead Indicator DEAD --------------------------------------------------------------- BAKEWARE (NEW YORK TIMES) United Aircraft Products Cuts Prices on Baking Pans; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 11, 1950; pg. 14, 1 pgs (...'Aire Ware' bakeware line...") Display Ad 174 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 20, 1949; pg. SM52, 1 pgs Display Ad 188 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 28, 1948; pg. SM49, 1 pgs Display Ad 180 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1948; pg. SM42, 1 pgs ("Blue Ribbon Bakeware, Leoscot, Ill.") (WORLDCAT database) Title: Kitchen tool school lessons on cookware, bakeware, cutlery. Corp Author(s): Wear-Ever Aluminum, inc. Publication: Chillicothe, Ohio :; Wear-Ever Aluminum, Year: 1974 Description: 6 filmslips (57 fr.), filmslip scripts, 3 pamphlets, 1 shopper's guide, 6 spirit masters, 1 guide;; in folder, 30 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Kitchen utensils -- Study and teaching. Note(s): Folder title. Material Type: Kit (kit) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19820803 Update: 20020703 Accession No: OCLC: 8653824 Database: WorldCat Title: Cookware and bakeware. Corp Author(s): Mirro Aluminum Company. Publication: Manitowoc, Wisc. :; Mirro Aluminum Co., Year: 1970-1977? Description: 3 charts (col.), 8 discussion guides, 8 masters, 2 quiz sheets, 1 quiz grading template, and teacher's guide in folder. Language: English Series: Mirro teaching aids; SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Baking pans. Pots. Note(s): Masters and quiz sheets intended to be duplicated as spirit masters, transparencies, or photocopies. Discussion guides correlated to masters. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 643.3 Material Type: Kit (kit) Document Type: Visual Material Entry: 19780627 Update: 19950218 Accession No: OCLC: 4012682 Database: WorldCat (TRADEMARK) Word Mark CREATIVE BAKEWARE BY MIRRO Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 021. US 002 013. G & S: Aluminum Baking Utensils-Namely, Pie and Cake Pans, Cookie Sheets, Bake and Roast Pans, Jelly Roll Pans, and Bread-Loaf Pans. FIRST USE: 19791100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19791100 Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM Serial Number 73253069 Filing Date March 7, 1980 Published for Opposition August 18, 1981 Registration Number 1177310 Registration Date November 10, 1981 Owner (REGISTRANT) Mirro Corporation CORPORATION NEW JERSEY P.O. Box 409 Manitowoc WISCONSIN 54220 Attorney of Record Blum, Kaplan, Friedman, Silberman & Bera Prior Registrations 0665622;0690083 Disclaimer Without waiving its common law rights herein, applicant makes no claim to the word "Bakeware" apart from the mark as shown. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date June 3, 1988 From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Thu Apr 17 22:35:43 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:35:43 -0400 Subject: Hello from a newbie Message-ID: > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "A. Maberry" > Subject: Re: Hello from a newbie > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > Right you are, Beverly. We had a discussion of "The problem is is that" in > mid-December 2001 and on "is is" in January of 2001. > Here's a link: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0101C&L=ads-l&D=0&m=11347& P=8584 From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:31:47 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:31:47 -0400 Subject: /zink/ for "sink"--How widespread? In-Reply-To: <87211D8E9D3BD211B5FF00805FE66D3A0D325713@dbqexc01ntms.dbq. hboc.com> Message-ID: A little late--but "rensh" is common in Oklahoma too, not surprisingly. At 11:22 AM 4/10/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I can verify that it's alive and well here in Dubuque, Iowa. My >grandmother would always say "rensh [rinse] it out in the zink". > >Bill Le May From jdhall at WISCMAIL.WISC.EDU Thu Apr 17 22:20:49 2003 From: jdhall at WISCMAIL.WISC.EDU (Joan Houston Hall) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:20:49 -0500 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <0HDI00JQ6D7WS0@smtp2.doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: DARE's first quote for "try and" is from 1847. At 03:01 PM 4/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header >----------------------- >Sender: American Dialect Society >Poster: Peter Richardson >Subject: try and? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. > >Peter R. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 17 22:57:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:57:38 -0400 Subject: Artisanal Cheese (1986) Message-ID: "Artisanal cheese" is not in the OED. The database hits have became very frequent in the past four years. (FACTIVA database) CONSUMING PASSIONS THE EDGE OF THE WEDGE Natural cheese doesn't last long or travel well, but when it comes to taste it creams pasteurized factory products JOANNE KATES 2,183 words 30 May 1986 The Globe and Mail P62; (ILLUS) (...) In France the war is on, between industrial and farm production of cheese from the milk of cow, goat and sheep. For the Monteiros are not anomalous; France has thousands of hidden valleys where people like them continue artisanal cheese-making. Indignity to cheese offends the French JOANNE KATES 980 words 18 March 1987 The Globe and Mail C6; (ILLUS) (...) According to Robert Noah, who lives in Paris and leads food tours there: "In 15 years there will be one cheese ripener in Paris. Glorified cremeries are selling Vache Qui Rit, industrial pasteurized triple cremes, teaching the public to eat mild cheeses. The industry wants the public to think mild mild mild is good good good. The son of the St. Hubert cheese- ripening family told me he was the only one in his class at dairy college who wanted to go into artisanal cheese making. All the others wanted jobs in industry." On French TV you see a lot of advertising for the factory cheeses, which are by nature far milder than the artisanal cheese that's made from unpasteurized milk and then ripened into fullness. A pasteurized milk cheese, lacking the microbial life of its artisanal cousin, cannot ripen. So the cheese industry is working hard to convince the French that these half-hearted striplings that can never grow up are better than the real thing. And it's working. Artisanal cheeses are being driven to the margins of the market. (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. Not the Market to Pick Up a Quart of Milk; By JOSEPH D'AGNESE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 12, 1999; pg. NJ24, 1 pgs 2. Chicago's New Fare: French, Mexican, Flamboyant; Choice Tables: Chicago; By DENNIS RAY WHEATON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 7, 1999; pg. TR6, 2 pgs 3. Chevre Learns Some New Tricks; By JEANNETTE FERRARY, SAN FRANCISCO; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 13, 1999; pg. F5, 1 pgs 4. Article 9 -- No Title; By MERRI ROSENBERG; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 15, 1999; pg. WE15, 1 pgs 5. Create a Cheese Board; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 25, 1998; pg. F4, 1 pgs 6. The Gift Is in the Mail, Savory and Sweet; By MARIAN BURROS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 11, 1998; pg. F14, 1 pgs 7. DINING A DEUX, SPLENDIDLY; At the Grand Vefour, it may well be irrelevant which anniversary is being celebrated; By SARAH FERRELL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 3, 1994; pg. XX11, 2 pgs 8. Staying in the Pyrenees for $15 a Night; A network of family-run lodgings is to be found amid the villages, castles and wild terrain of Spain's Navarre province; By GERRY DAWES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 12, 1994; pg. XX29, 2 pgs 9. Shopping at Mallorca; P.C.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 11, 1990; pg. XX32, 1 pgs ("Artisanal cheese are $20 to $35 for 2.2 pounds.") (WORLDCAT database) 1. Mike Nelson's mind over matters / Author: Nelson, Michael J. Publication: New York : HarperEntertainment, 2002 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 218 2. The cheeses of Vermont : a gourmet guide to Vermont's artisanal cheesemakers / Author: Tewksbury, Henry. Publication: Woodstock, Vt. : Countryman Press, 2002 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 64 3. The production of Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese : the force of an artisanal system in an industrialised world / Author: Roest, Kees de, 1954- Publication: Assen : Van Gorcum, 2000 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 8 4. The production of Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese : the force of an artisanal system in an industrialised world / Author: Roest, Kees de. Publication: [Wageningen : s.n., 2000 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 2 (TRADEMARK) Word Mark ARTISANAL CHEESE Goods and Services IC 029. US 046. G & S: Foodstuffs, namely, meats and cheeses and dairy-based foods, namely, dairy-based dips and whipped toppings IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Wholesale and retail store services in the fields of specialty foods, mail order services in the field of specialty foods; and import and export services in the field of specialty foods Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 76415959 Filing Date June 6, 2002 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Owner (APPLICANT) Artisanal Cheese, LLC LTD LIAB CO NEW YORK 2 Park Avenue New York NEW YORK 10016 Attorney of Record Brendan P. McFeely Prior Registrations 2671387 Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark ARTISANAL FROMAGERIE AND BISTRO Translations The English translation of "FROMAGERIE" is "cheese shop". Goods and Services IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: Restaurants. FIRST USE: 20000100. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010310 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 76278140 Filing Date June 28, 2001 Published for Opposition October 15, 2002 Registration Number 2671387 Registration Date January 7, 2003 Owner (REGISTRANT) Brennan, Terrance INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 2 Park Avenue New York NEW YORK 10016 Attorney of Record Donald J. Weiss Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "FROMAGERIE AND BISTRO" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From gcohen at UMR.EDU Fri Apr 18 00:14:53 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:14:53 -0500 Subject: "shyster" does not derive from a lawyer named Scheuster Message-ID: At 8:02 AM -0700 4/17/03, James Smith wrote: >I looked-up "shyster" in my handy Webster?s New >Collegiate (1977). It gives the etymology as from Mr. >Scheuster, an attorney "frequently rebuked in a New >York court for pettifoggery." Any credence to that? No. There is no chance (zero) that "shyster" derives from a lawyer named Scheuster. The etymology was first set forth by Frank Moss in his 1897 _The American Metropolis From Knickerbocker Days To The Present Time_, p.183: "The term shyster had its origin in the Essex Market Police Court fifty years ago, when Justice Osbourne dispensed (with) justice. There was a Clinton Street lawyer named Scheuster, whose practices were reprehensible and were obnoxious to the judge, and when another lawyer played a mean trick, the judge would call it 'Scheuster' practice.' Soon those lawyers who emulated him were call shysters." I will now skip the two later people who adopted Moss' etymology and cut to the chase: Barnabas Osborn became a police justice (1845) only after "shyster" originated (1843); so even if a lawyer named Scheuster irritated Judge Osborn, "shyster" could not have arisen from this confrontation. Also, Scheuster turns out be be almost certainly a fictitious character; considerable searching has turned up nary a trace that he existed. For a full discussion of the "Scheuster" hypothesis, see my book _Origin of the Term "Shyster"_ (Frankfurt am Main: Peter Lang Verlag), 1982, pp. 4-10. Also, word researcher David Shulman was the first to question the Scheuster hypothesis (1973, _The Light_, Nov. 1973, pp. 4, 15; reprinted in my _Studies in Slang_, part 2, 1989, pp. 93-94). Btw, Merriam-Webster is aware of my work on "shyster" and has included the story behind the real etymology in _Webster's Word Histories (Frederick Mish, editor), 1989, pp.424-426. And Jesse Sheidlower (editor, OED) has told me that OED will update its "shyster" entry when his staff gets to the letter S; at the very least, this will include the earlier attestations of the term. Might I also give credit to former newspaper librarian at the NY Historical Society, Roger Mohovich (pronounced Muh-HOH-Vich), who discovered the 1843 attestations in the NYC newspaper _The Subterranean_, thereby setting me on the right track. Gerald Cohen From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 00:21:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:21:45 -0400 Subject: Meat Thermometer (1928) & Oven Thermometer (1869) Message-ID: MEAT THERMOMETER The revised OED has 1946 for "meat thermometer." (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. NEW THINGS IN CITY'S SHOPS; Spectacular Jewelry for Up-Swept Hair-Bright Scarfs--New Music Instrument; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 11, 1938; pg. 57, 1 pgs ("As easily read as a first-grade primer are the directions on the dial of a meat thermometer designed to help one reach perfection in the cooking of meats.") 2. EXPERT FOOD TASTERS HELP THE HOUSEWIVES; Employed by Uncle Sam, They Have Served to Raise Standards of Meats and Cooking ; By FRANK GEORGEWASHINGTON.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 20, 1936; pg. SM16, 1 pgs ("All three roasts were cooked to the same degree--rare, as indicated by a meat thermometer.") 3. Tells Ways of Cooking Lamb.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 14, 1928; pg. 27, 1 pgs ("The use of the meat termometer which mades it possible to roast large cuts to just the turn desired, and with a minimum of shrinkage, is discussed and illustrated.") (JSTOR database) Meat Research in the United States E. W. Sheets The Scientific Monthly, Vol. 38, No. 1. (Jan., 1934), pp. 50-59. Pg. 51: For example, every rib roast of beef is cooked to the rare stage, that is, until the meat at the center registers 62 (degrees--ed.) C. as shown by a special meat thermometer. --------------------------------------------------------------- OVEN THERMOMETER The OED has no entry for "oven thermometer." (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) Scientific American. / New Series, Volume 21, Issue 23: pp. 353-368 p. 359 1 match of 'oven thermometer*' Title: Scientific American. / New Series, Volume 21, Issue 23 Publisher: Scientific American, inc. etc. Publication Date: Dec 4, 1869 City: New York Pages: 418 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABF2204-1021&byte=189646133 ("THE BAKER'S OVEN THERMOMETER. This useful instrument for indicating the temperature of an oven, is the invention of Mr. T. Bailey, or Salford.") (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Apr 27, 1889; Vol. Vol. LX., Iss. 0 AN IMPROVED OVEN THERMOMETER.; pg. 259, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jan 1, 1889, Iss. 0 Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 411, 2 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Dec 30, 1882; Vol. Vol.XLVII., Iss. 0 Oven Thermometer.; pg. 421, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 3, 1877; Vol. Vol. XXXVI., Iss. 0 Other 3 -- No Title; pg. 75, 2 pgs ("Oven Thermometer, P. A. Forbrache...185,170") (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. Display Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 5, 1901; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("Oven Thermometers, 67c" at Macy's.) 2. WOMEN HERE AND THERE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 7, 1899; pg. 22, 1 pgs ("Guesswork is unscientific, and so I purchased, first of all, an oven thermometer.") (WORLDCAT database) Libraries with Item: "Taylor home bake oven the..." NY NEW YORK ACAD OF MED VVK Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: Taylor home bake oven thermometer ; book of recipes for baking and roasting, carefully tested for time and temperature. Author(s): Badenoch, Nena Wilson. Corp Author(s): Taylor Instrument Companies. Publication: Rochester, N.Y. : Taylor Instrument Companies, Year: 1917 Description: 24 p. : ill. ; 16 cm. Language: English Other Titles: Taylor cook book. Document Type: Book Entry: 19990309 Update: 19990309 Accession No: OCLC: 40928991 Database: WorldCat Cooper Oven Thermometers. Corp Author: Cooper Oven Thermometer Co. Publication: Hartford, Conn. : Taylor & Greenough, 1915-1929? Document: English : Book From GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU Fri Apr 18 00:31:19 2003 From: GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU (Gordon, Matthew J.) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:31:19 -0500 Subject: try and? Message-ID: A quick search of the North American Women's Letters and Diaries database shows an example from a 1798 letter from Elizabeth Ann Seton, a New Yorker: "I must tell you she was going to try and recover her health at New Rochelle. " There are some earlier (17th cen) British examples in the LION database, though the contexts are sometimes ambiguous as to whether the meaning is "try to X". -----Original Message----- From: Joan Houston Hall [mailto:jdhall at WISCMAIL.WISC.EDU] Sent: Thu 4/17/2003 5:20 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Cc: Subject: Re: try and? DARE's first quote for "try and" is from 1847. At 03:01 PM 4/17/2003 -0700, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header >----------------------- >Sender: American Dialect Society >Poster: Peter Richardson >Subject: try and? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. > >Peter R. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 01:00:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:00:45 -0400 Subject: Food Chain (1920) Message-ID: OED has 1927 for "food chain." Both the TIMES OF LONDON and a JSTOR journal have the same article in 1920. A later JSTOR article cites "Bullen, _Journ. Mar. Biol. Assoc._, 9, 1912, pg. 394," which is not on JSTOR and I'll have to check out. (TIMES OF LONDON) British Association Cardiff Meeting Opened., Hidden Secrets Of The Sea. (News) (From Our Special Correspondent.). The Times Wednesday, Aug 25, 1920; pg. 14; Issue 42498; col A Article: | Page | PDF 1 page portrait (10604 words) (JSTOR database) Oceanography and the Sea-Fisheries (in The British Association for the Advancement of Science) William A. Herdman The Scientific Monthly, Vol. 11, No. 4. (Oct., 1920), pp. 289-296. Pg. 295: Each such fish has its "food-chain" or series of alternative chains, leading back from the food of man to the invertebrates upon which it preys and then to the food of these, and so down to the smallest and simplest organisms in the sea, and each such chain must have all its links fully worked out as to seasonal and quantitative occurrence back to the Diatom and Flagellates which depend upon physical conditions and take us beyond the range of biology--but not beyond that of oceanography. From dcamp911 at JUNO.COM Thu Apr 17 23:08:45 2003 From: dcamp911 at JUNO.COM (Duane Campbell) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:08:45 -0400 Subject: try and? Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:01:57 -0700 Peter Richardson > Note > that we > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," Maybe not where you live, but it is very common in northern Pennsylvania. I'll try and give my shaky explanation. For absolutely no rational reason, I have always had the sense that this is related to the "take and" construction, as in " ... We'll, that's interesting. I can't think of a proper example. My grandmother, rural Pennsylvania, died 40 years ago, would always say, "Take and [do something]." But at the moment the only examples that come to mind contain some kind of literal, if unneeded, use of "take." "Take and wash that glass." I'm sure she used it as an empty filler phrase, but when I try to put it in that context, it doesn't ring true. Well, it's been several decades. Nevermind. D From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 01:19:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:19:27 -0400 Subject: Food Stamps (1939) Message-ID: OED has 1962 for "food stamps." The citations appear to be British. I've said many times that OED is can be awful, but this is really awful. Food stamps. Just about ANYONE who lives in America (Not a scholar! ANYONE!) and has gone to the supermarket knows that "food stamp" is older than 1962. There was a Great Depression and then a war, later called World War II, and the government started issuing food stamps... FOOD SCRIP TO LIFT SALES 250 MILLION; Grocers Hope for 50% Boost in Relief Family Purchases Through Surplus Plan JOBBERS TO DO BUYING Industry Pleased That Goods Will Be Moved Through Normal Channels; By CHARLES E. EGAN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 19, 1939; pg. 89, 1 pgs Food, Grocery Group Approves Distribution Plan for Farm Surplus; Agricultural Department Proposal Designed to Stimulate Consumption Through Regular Channels; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 14, 1939; pg. 4, 1 pgs THE FOOD SCRIP PLAN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 11, 1939; pg. 10, 1 pgs Surplus Disposal Details Announced; Plans Include Issuance of Food Stamps or Certificates of Two Different Types; From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Washington Bureau; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 7, 1939; pg. 1, 1 pgs From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Fri Apr 18 01:34:55 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:34:55 -0400 Subject: try and? Message-ID: > > > > Note > > that we > > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," > > Maybe not where you live, but it is very common in northern Pennsylvania. I think there's been some confusion. What is at issue here, I believe, is "I'll try and" versus "I'll try to" with no following verb (the [do it] is implied but unspoken.) "Will you pick up some milk on the way home, dear?" "I'll try to." No one says "I'll try and" without saying the second verb, do they, even in northern PA? From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Fri Apr 18 01:58:22 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:58:22 -0400 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <20030417.211034.-228543.4.dcamp911@juno.com> Message-ID: Duane Campbell writes: >For absolutely no rational reason, I have always had the sense that this >is related to the "take and" construction, as in " ... > >We'll, that's interesting. I can't think of a proper example. My >grandmother, rural Pennsylvania, died 40 years ago, would always say, >"Take and [do something]." But at the moment the only examples that come >to mind contain some kind of literal, if unneeded, use of "take." "Take >and wash that glass." I'm sure she used it as an empty filler phrase, >but when I try to put it in that context, it doesn't ring true. Well, >it's been several decades. ~~~~~~~~ I have often heard this construction from people in various parts of the country, but usually rural, and older than myself ( I am in my seventies). It always seemed to me to suggest taking the matter in hand, or taking up as a responsibility rather than picking up physically. It doesn't seem to have survived in the way "try and" has. I hear "try and" in the mouths of people of all ages. A. Murie From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 02:23:25 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:23:25 -0400 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:01 PM -0700 4/17/03, Peter Richardson wrote: >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. but ok: He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: Go catch a falling star. Go (and) eat your own cookies. Larry From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 02:25:09 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:25:09 -0400 Subject: Antedating of "Bakery" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred uncovers: >bakery (OED c1820) > >1780 George Washington _Let._ 24 May in _Writings of Washington_ (1937) >XVIII. 411 Independent of the apartments for the sick, there must be one >or more kitchens; an apothecarys shop; a magazine for drugs and remedies; >an oven; a bakery. > Can this really be the first cite? George Washington, the father of our "bakery"? From zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU Fri Apr 18 03:03:49 2003 From: zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:03:49 -0700 Subject: try and? Message-ID: larry horn on TRY AND: >Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: >Go catch a falling star. >Go (and) eat your own cookies. to say this carefully, GO/COME occur in a construction with AND and a following VP and also in a construction with an immediately following VP (with no AND). that's not to say that an AND is suppressed. it's by no means clear that the hendiadys construction is even the *historical* source of the quasi-serial verb construction. an attractive alternative is that the quasi-serial verb construction is a reinterpretation of asyndetic coordinations like Go/Come, see who's at the door. (on this story, the loose and paratactic combination of verbs here was reinterpreted as a tight and hypotactic combination, that is, as complementation.) i'm beginning to collect evidence in favor of this alternative historical story. in any case, as larry well knows, that fact that you have roughly synonymous pairings of X w Y with X Y (for some word w) doesn't mean that the latter is synchronically derived by suppressing, omitting, or deleting w from the former. arnold (zwicky at csli.stanford.edu) From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Fri Apr 18 02:54:45 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:54:45 -0500 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's also the "take and" construction, where a complementizer analysis is more difficult. He took and robbed the bank. She took and smacked him. The Babe took and hit a home run. Herb -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Laurence Horn Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:23 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: try and? At 3:01 PM -0700 4/17/03, Peter Richardson wrote: >There must be something in the archives about "try and" as well: "I'll try >and get to it in the morning." Does anyone know how old the apparent >substitution of _and_ for _to_ is in this case? Possibly analogous is >"I'll look and see" = "I'll [take a] look in order to see." Note that we >can't say "I'll try and [do it]," but that "I'll try to [do it]" is just >fine: *I'll try and / I'll try to. Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. but ok: He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: Go catch a falling star. Go (and) eat your own cookies. Larry From hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Fri Apr 18 02:56:17 2003 From: hstahlke at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Herbert Stahlke) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:56:17 -0500 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I should read the whole thread. Then I'd know that the "take and" construction had already come up. Herb Duane Campbell writes: >For absolutely no rational reason, I have always had the sense that this >is related to the "take and" construction, as in " ... > >We'll, that's interesting. I can't think of a proper example. My >grandmother, rural Pennsylvania, died 40 years ago, would always say, >"Take and [do something]." But at the moment the only examples that come >to mind contain some kind of literal, if unneeded, use of "take." "Take >and wash that glass." I'm sure she used it as an empty filler phrase, >but when I try to put it in that context, it doesn't ring true. Well, >it's been several decades. ~~~~~~~~ I have often heard this construction from people in various parts of the country, but usually rural, and older than myself ( I am in my seventies). It always seemed to me to suggest taking the matter in hand, or taking up as a responsibility rather than picking up physically. It doesn't seem to have survived in the way "try and" has. I hear "try and" in the mouths of people of all ages. A. Murie From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 03:31:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:31:49 -0400 Subject: Meat Substitute (1893) Message-ID: OED has 1931 for "meat substitute." This is the revised OED. Seemingly everyone should know that "meat substitutes" were used during World War I, at least. There are two earlier BROOKLYN EAGLE hits (1870s and 1880s), but the system has been changed a little and I didn't see them. OT: I recently e-mailed the American Antiquarian Society about their digitization of pre-1800 work. (I'm looking for a good bakery.) I got no response, but will forward one when/if one arrives. (NEW YORK TIMES) 1. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map WOMEN ALREADY AT WORK; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 20, 1913; pg. X10, 1 pgs 2. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map FAMILY OF FIVE CAN BARELY LIVE HERE ON $900; So Says John A. Kingsbury, General Agent of the Association Improving the Condition of the Poor, and Gives Results of Investigations Made.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 4, 1912; pg. SM11, 1 pgs 3. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 22, 1905; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("PROTO PUFFS. A wholesome Meat Substitute.") 4. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map Oleomargarine as Food.; J.F. GEISLER.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 11, 1899; pg. 6, 1 pgs 5. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map THE HEART OF THE HOUSE; Kitchens or Many Countries Pictured and Compared.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 2, 1895; pg. 13, 1 pgs 6. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map IN PRINTER'S INK THE SECRET; VAST FORTUNES MADE BY THE PATENT-MEDICINE KINGS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 14, 1894; pg. 21, 1 pg 7. Summary (Abstract/Citation) Article Image (Adobe Acrobat) Page Map PACIFIC MAIL'S HARD FIGHT; THE PANAMA RAILROAD TRIES TO CRIPPLE THE OLD COMPANY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 15, 1893; pg. 17, 1 pgs ("The cooking for the sick is intended to be of especial value to medical students and nurses, and will include instructions for the preparation of broths, cooking of starches, drinks and nutricious jellies, and the cooking of meats and meat substitute.") (WORLDCAT database) Meat substitutes, Author: Goodhue, Isabel. Publication: New York, New York magazine of mysteries, 1907 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 8 Book Mrs. Rorer's vegetable cookery and meat substitutes... Author: Rorer, Sarah Tyson Heston, 1849-1937. Publication: Philadelphia, Arnold and company 1909 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 41 Meat substitutes : with suggestions for reducing the amounts of meat used. Publication: Michigan : Home Economics Extension Division, Michigan Agricultural College, 1910s Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 1 Cheese and other substitutes for meat in the diet. Author: Langworthy, C. F. 1864-1932. Publication: 1911 In: Yearbook of the United States Department of Agriculture. Washington, G.P.O., 1911. 1910, p. 359-370. 23 cm. Document: English : Article Libraries Worldwide: 1 The Institute cook book, planned for a family of four; economical recipes, designed to meet the needs of the modern housekeeper, including chapters on entertaining, paper-bag cookery, casserole cookery, fireless cookery, chafing-dish cookery, meat substitutes, Author: Cramp, Helen, b. 1886. Publication: Philadelphia, Pa., Pub. for International Institute, Dept. of Domestic Science 1913 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 15 Book Save the meat 24 recipes using meat substitutes and perishable meats / Author: Lawrence, M. Minerva Publication: Austin, Tex. : University of Texas, 1917 Document: English : Book : Microform Microform Libraries Worldwide: 2 Book Mrs. Allen's book of meat substitutes, Author: Allen, Ida Cogswell Bailey, 1885-1973. Publication: Boston, Small, Maynard & company 1918 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 13 Book Daily menus for war service; three menus for breakfast, luncheon, and dinner, graded according to expense, for every day in the year, giving the calories for each individual helping, and recipes for all meat substitutes, war breads, and all dishes listed in which substitutes may be used in place of butter, sugar, and wheat flour, Author: Franks, Thetta Quay. Publication: New York, G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1918 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 3 Book Meatless and less-meat cookery / Author: Lees-Dods, Matilda. Publication: London : New York : G. Routledge ; E.P. Dutton, 1918 Document: English : Book Libraries Worldwide: 3 From mam at THEWORLD.COM Fri Apr 18 03:38:45 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:38:45 -0400 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: #Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. To which I say: * -- Mark A. Mandel From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 03:48:25 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:48:25 -0400 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark A Mandel wrote: >On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: > >#Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. > >To which I say: * > How about "what we are, is puzzled by it all"? -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 06:09:58 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:09:58 -0400 Subject: Meat Juice (1830) Message-ID: The revised OED has 1874 for "meat juice." (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES database) August, 1830 THE LADY'S BOOK Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Volume 1 - Page 112 RECIPES. (...) TO TAKE OUT CHERRY-BOUNCE OR << SWEET-MEAT JUICE>> , WHEN SPILLED ON THE CLOTHES. DIP in cold water the corner of a clean towel, and rub it on the stain before the article is washed. Continue it, changing to a clean part of the towel and dipping frequently in the cold water till the stain disappears, which will be in a few minutes. The sweeter the juice, the sooner it will come out. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 06:27:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:27:53 -0400 Subject: Meat Broth(1806); Meat Chopper(1832); Meat Pudding(1841); Meat Tenderer Message-ID: Last meat before parking tickets. These were checked against the American Periodical Series online. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT BROTH The revised OED has 1850. The Philadelphia Medical Museum, Conducted by John Redman Coxe, M.D. (1805-1810), Philadelphia; 1806; Vol. 2, Iss. 4 2. Account of the measles in Jamaica; J Quier; pg. 365, 15 pgs (Pg. 377: "The food, both in this and the febrile stage, was of the slightest and blandest kind that could be afforded; such as flour-pap, boiled rice, and fresh-meat broths.") --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT CHOPPER The revised OED has 1848. The Genesee Farmer and Gardener's Journal (1831-1839), Rochester; Jan 7, 1832; Vol. 2, Iss. 1 98. Culture of Ruta Baga; J B; pg. 4, 2 pgs (Pg. 4: "From thence they are fed to my stock, being first chopped up with a _snick_ (Dutch meat chopper,) or spade. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT PUDDING The revised OED has 1851. Southern Literary Messenger (1834-1845), Richmond; Nov 1841; Vol. 7, Iss. 11 8. Treatment of slaves in the South-West; A Planter; pg. 774, 3 pgs (Pg. 775: "They have _no meat_, except on Sunday, when a meat pudding is made;...") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MEAT TENDERER Not in the OED. Compare, perhaps, with "meat tenderizer." (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 1, 1879; Vol. Vol. XL., Iss. 0 31. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 75, 2 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Jul 27, 1878; Vol. Vol. XXXIX., Iss. 0 32. Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 60, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 9, 1878; Vol. Vol. XXXVIII., Iss. 0 33. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 92, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; May 12, 1877; Vol. Vol. XXXVI., Iss. 0 34. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 300, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Nov 25, 1876; Vol. Vol. XXXV., Iss. 0 35. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 347, 2 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Sep 4, 1875; Vol. Vol. XXXIII., Iss. 0 36. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 156, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; May 8, 1875; Vol. Vol. XXXII., Iss. 0 37. IMPROVED MEAT TENDERER.; pg. 294, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Mar 6, 1875; Vol. Vol. XXXII., Iss. 0 38. Other 1 -- No Title; pg. 156, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Mar 16, 1872; Vol. Vol. XXVI., Iss. 0 39. Other 2 -- No Title; pg. 187, 1 pgs ("Meat tenderer, M. M. Pellea.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 06:49:17 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:49:17 -0400 Subject: Hand-Me-Down (1826) Message-ID: The Word Spy yesterday had "hand-me-up," and it's mentioned that OED has 1874 for "hand-me-down." Merriam-Webster has 1827 for "hand-me-down." Hm. Casket (1826-1830), Philadelphia; Sep 1826; Vol. VOL. I., Iss. 0 THE BRIDEGROOM'S PROBATION.; A Tale from the German, illustrating the mode in which the German writers treat English subjects. ; pg. 278, 2 pgs (Pg. 278: "The daughter of the colonel was an awkward country girl, with round chubby cheeks like Reuben's cherubim, and looking particularly odd in the hand-me-down attire of her sainted mother, which did not at all fit her, and was of course not of the most fashionable cut.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 18 10:02:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:02:22 EDT Subject: Acai ("The New Fruit in the Blender") Message-ID: http://www.amazon.com.br/camta/acaiRio.htm http://www.amazonacai.com/faq.shtml "Acai" is not in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS (2001), which has 25,000 terms. This is from today's WALL STREET JOURNAL, 18 April 2003, pg. W10, col. 4: _The New Fruit_ _In the Blender_ (...) Wheatgrass, protein shakes--so 2002. At juice bars and health stores around the country, the hip new taste is acai, (pronounced ah-sigh-EE) a grape-size, deep-purple berry that grows atop palm trees in the Brazilian jungle. In the two years since it hit the U.S., sales have jumped five-fold to $2.5 million, says Ryan Black, founder of Sambazon, the fruit's main U.S. importer, while at Juice It Up, a California chain, acai drinks and dishes account for 10% of sales. (...) Fans say the fruit (which comes to the U.S. as frozen pulp) not only tastes good, but also is good for you--packed with anthocyanins, the same antioxidants that give red wine its health benefits. And, in a hat trick of health-bar chic, it's good for the Amazon, too, because it's collected by local families who can earn as much as $1,000 during the December-to-August harvest season (twice as much as they can usually make). (....) Of course, the fruit is just the latest exotic newcomer looking for a place in U.S. produce aisles--remember the starfruit? And the acai's new-found cachet would probably take a lot of Brazilians by surprise: There, acai, whose taste has been likened to blueberry with a hint of chocolate, typically is eaten as puddinglike mush over bananas for breakfast. (ADS-ers Kathleen Miller and Dennis Preston have been to Brazil. Any verdict on acai?...I'm supposed to remember starfruit?--ed.) From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Apr 18 13:02:02 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:02:02 -0400 Subject: FW: Antedating of "Bakery" Message-ID: Fred's discovery of bakery in Washington is a marvelous antedating (see below), but from the context it is clear that it is by no means the first-ever citation. GW uses the word in a setting with other familiar terms that he expects everyone will know -- no place to find a new word. This whole issue with bakery is a great example of the "citational fallacy". The original OED readers (probably scores of them) read right past the word bakery many times, surely, in works older than 1820. Amateur and even trained readers are attracted to oddball words, not common ones. [Aside: That is the problem with dictionaries that rely solely on citational evidence -- they miss covering the common words well and thoroughly, because the bulk of their evidence has to do with other sorts of words, owing to the nature of reading for citations. Citation reading can be compared to searching for butterflies, and capturing and keeping only the interesting specimens. If enough citation reading has been done over time, good citation-based dicts have good examples of early usage for oddball words and newish words (and of many common words as well, to be sure), but they often miss good coverage of common words. Not always, but often.] OED had an 1820 example as their oldest when the editor came to write that entry, so that editor HAD to go with that as the first example. Back in those days -- and bakery would have been in Murray's time, I think -- there was no means to efficiently track down an earlier example of a given word, and besides, no time. Even OED cannot do (much of) that sort of research. Even today, with awesome electronic means, OED editors may not have time to go digging around for something earlier, on a hunch. The entry one is working on (and many thousands more that will follow, forever) has to be revised, and the update or new edition completed or moved along, at least. If the lexo stops to do further research, entry after entry, the update or revision would never get finished. Even OED has deadlines -- no dig at them at all, just an acknowledgment that, because of the incredibly massive scope of OED, it SEEMS that it takes a long time to get OED revisions out, but in fact it they come out at a pretty brisk pace now, given the task OED faces -- every day, every year, every decade, for the rest of time, as long as the English she is spoken and OUP carries on. It is for Barry P, Fred S, Jerry C, and others to find antedatings of individual words, not necessarily the staff of OED. Frank Abate -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Laurence Horn Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:25 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Antedating of "Bakery" Fred uncovers: >bakery (OED c1820) > >1780 George Washington _Let._ 24 May in _Writings of Washington_ (1937) >XVIII. 411 Independent of the apartments for the sick, there must be one >or more kitchens; an apothecarys shop; a magazine for drugs and remedies; >an oven; a bakery. > Can this really be the first cite? George Washington, the father of our "bakery"? From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Fri Apr 18 16:00:00 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:00:00 -0700 Subject: troops Message-ID: Here is an amusing little anecdote about the meaning of the word 'troops' that I came across in _Civil War Treasury of Tales, Legends and Folklore_ by B. A. Botkin p. 575: POINT OF VIEW WE HAVE A FRIEND, A Miss Anderson who lives in Washington D.C. One time another mutual friend, an army officer, invited her to go with him to the battlefield of Gettysburg. Arriving there they went to the scene of Pickett's charge, which he was studying. He said to the young lady: "Now this is where the troops were and the enemy was over there," indicating the position. Miss Anderson said: "No, the enemy was [where] the troops were and the troops were over there"--indicating the opposite situation. He said: "No, you do not understand--the troops were here and the enemy was there." To which she replied: " I understand you, but I still maintain that the troops were here and the enemy there." as she had previously indicated. Her friend paused, looked quizzically at her for a few moments and then said: "Where were you born and reared?" With a smile she replied: " In Tennessee." ---- Annie C. Murray BTW, in our Civil War reenacting group, we use 'trooper' (we are a cavalry unit) as the singular. Fritz Juengling >>> mam at THEWORLD.COM 04/16/03 01:50PM >>> This usage is nothing new. I seem to recall being prescriptively warned against this in my high school grammar books in the early sixties. That doesn't mean I like it! -- Mark A. Mandel From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Fri Apr 18 18:43:49 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:43:49 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: <20030417.211034.-228543.4.dcamp911@juno.com> Message-ID: Woops, I think I mis-finger-spoke. When I wrote > > Note > > that we > > can't say "I'll try and [do it]," I meant that we don't say "I'll try and" as a complete statement, but we do say "I'll try to." For me the first statement is asterisk-ed. Likewise, one wouldn't (at least I wouldn't) say, "I'll take and." I'd have to follow it up with "...[verb]" -- "I'll take and ream that out oncet or twicet and get it to fit." But -- "Who'll do it?" -- "I'll try and." doesn't work for me. -- "I'll try to." does. PR > > Maybe not where you live, but it is very common in northern Pennsylvania. From prichard at LINFIELD.EDU Fri Apr 18 18:47:26 2003 From: prichard at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter Richardson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:47:26 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ...and we dass'n't forget "He hauled off and..." Does anyone have a notion of what could originally have been hauled off? Or has this always been intransitive? PR > Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" > construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a > little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: > > He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. > He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. > > but ok: > He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound > He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) > > Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: > > Go catch a falling star. > Go (and) eat your own cookies. > > Larry > From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 18 19:43:38 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:43:38 -0400 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >...and we dass'n't forget "He hauled off and..." Does anyone have a >notion of what could originally have been hauled off? Or has this always >been intransitive? > Not sure what the first haulee-off was, but my favorite has to be the Wayne Raney song (as sung most memorably by Rose Maddox), "Why Don't You Haul Off and Love Me?" (on one of my classic Maddox Brothers and Rose albums). Then there's the more recent "Haul Off and Kiss Me" (the Shangri-Las?). Larry From mam at THEWORLD.COM Fri Apr 18 20:32:54 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:32:54 -0400 Subject: is, is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Alice Faber wrote: #Mark A Mandel wrote: #>On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Peter Richardson wrote: #> #>#Hm. It appears that what we are, are puzzled by it all. #> #>To which I say: * #> # #How about "what we are, is puzzled by it all"? Fine with me, and the asterisk drops off. "Go and catch a falling star." -- Mark M. From pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU Fri Apr 18 21:06:10 2003 From: pmcgraw at LINFIELD.EDU (Peter A. McGraw) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:06:10 -0700 Subject: try and? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And the currently popular "Go ahead and..." [go at hEd@n~gw at hed@n~gwEd at n] (discussed here sometime ago). Peter Mc. --On Friday, April 18, 2003 11:47 AM -0700 Peter Richardson wrote: > ...and we dass'n't forget "He hauled off and..." Does anyone have a > notion of what could originally have been hauled off? Or has this always > been intransitive? > > PR > >> Another early case of complementizer "and" is the "go and" >> construction (cf. Donne on "Go and catch a falling star"). This is a >> little freer in its distribution, occuring with past inflection: >> >> He used to {try to/try and} leap tall buildings at a single bound. >> He {tried to/*tried and} leapt tall buildings at a single bound. >> >> but ok: >> He went and leapt tall buildings at a single bound >> He went and ate all my cookies (=/= He went to eat all my cookies) >> >> Also, in non-inflected environments, the "and" can be suppressed: >> >> Go catch a falling star. >> Go (and) eat your own cookies. >> >> Larry >> ***************************************************************** Peter A. McGraw Linfield College McMinnville, Oregon ******************* pmcgraw at linfield.edu ************************ From RonButters at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 01:46:35 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:46:35 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20ADS=20sessions=20at=20the?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=20MLA=20convention?= Message-ID: Did you get any takers? In a message dated 3/23/03 8:26:09 PM, MAdams1448 at AOL.COM writes: > Dear Colleagues:? As of today, no one has yet proposed to give a paper in > one > of the ADS sessions at this year's MLA convention in San Diego.? There are > still a few days before I have to submit the paperwork to MLA, so this is a > last call for anyone caught up in other things who would nonetheless like a > place on the MLA program.? Please send an abstract on any American > speech-realted topic that interests you to MAdams1448 at aol.com.? I must have > submissions by April 1.? It would be a shame for the ADS to disappear from > the MLA program -- perhaps the first time in ADS/MLA history. > > Thanks for considering this desperate call for papers. > > Michael Adams > > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 04:11:43 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:11:43 -0400 Subject: Indian Candy (1982) Message-ID: It's a treat to find "Indian candy"--brown-sugar-cured salmon--sharing a plate with salmon jerky and peppery cold-smoked salmon. --GOURMET magazine, May 2003, pg. 58, col. 1 I posted "squaw candy," but forgot to add "Indian candy." Here's the first citation on the Dow Jones database, which is a start: Bay Street man's move to B.C. was a profitable one BONNIE STERN 1,345 Words 12/28/1982 The Globe and Mail SB8 ... The barbecued salmon that is sold all over Vancouver is "hot smoked" at much higher temperatures, so the fish actually gets cooked. While in Vancouver I also first tasted what Ray called "Indian Candy". These are strips of Sockeye salmon that have been cured and hot-smoked twice, resulting in salmon that is sweet, salty, chunky and wonderful. It became a favorite of mine, but I have never seen it here. ... ships it collect via air freight (the expensive part) and it should only take a day. All orders must be prepaid. Obviously, the more you buy, the more worthwhile it is to ship, but I would recommend buying at least one side of red spring (10 pounds) and a few strips of Indian Candy. (...) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 04:59:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:59:15 -0400 Subject: Freezer Bag(1948); Refrigerator Bag(1918); Ice Bag(1857) Message-ID: FREEZER BAG This is not included in my food dictionaries, although stuff like "aluminum foil" is there. Most likely, Sharon Herbst just forgot to add it in the FOOD LOVER'S COMPANION (1995), and some later dictionaries copying that just didn't make the addition. For you Connecticut trivia buffs, is it a CT first? Display Ad 77 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 8, 1948; pg. X20, 1 pgs: _FREEZER BAGS_ CHEAPER THAN CELLULOSE! BETTER THAN CELLULOSE! RE-USABLE! REQUIRES NO BOXES! Made of Pollene Refrigerator Bags--$1.00 set of seven SHORE LINE INDUSTRIES CLINTON 1, CONNECTICUT --------------------------------------------------------------- REFRIGERATOR BAG OED has "ice bag" (from 1883), but not "freezer bag" or "refrigerator bag." The Google numbers don't help this one: ICE BAG--12,500 Google, 1,840 Google Groups FREEZER BAG--8,900 Google, 4,180 Google Groups REFRIGERATOR BAG--53 Google, 13 Google Groups Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 31, 1918; pg. 7, 1 pgs: _ICE BAGS_ Stamped sanitary refrigerator bags for lettuce, parsley and celery. 25c value, 15c. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE BAG Classified Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Jun 26, 1857; pg. 6, 2 pgs (Pg. 7: "Ice Cream Moulds, Ice Bags, Ice Picks, &c.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 06:16:48 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:16:48 -0400 Subject: Martini Glass(1934); Mote Spoon(1913); Mouli Grater(1948); Muffin Pan(1878) Message-ID: MARTINI GLASS Not in the revised OED. Display Ad 18 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1934; pg. 18, 1 pgs Display Ad 10 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1934; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("Then I put in a scoop of ice cubes, stir the mixture slowly with a long spoon and pour it into a Martini glass which contains a tiny green olive.") --------------------------------------------------------------- MOTE SPOON Not in the revised OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD CITIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry with a fine illustration. Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 18, 1974; pg. C9, 1 pgs Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 17, 1974; pg. D15, 1 pgs (Col. 3: "...sterling mote spoon...") METROPOLITAN GETS A RARE TRIPTYCH; The Work of Sixteenth Century Painter Now on Exhibition in the Museum.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 12, 1913; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("Fifty-four silver mote spoons are an interesting collection and would make most satisfactory tea spoons of the present day.") --------------------------------------------------------------- MOULI GRATER Not in the revised OED. Again, WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry with a nice illustration of it. Jesse Sheidlower should get a mouli grater--it's the "gratest." Ways to Prepare Foods Are Given; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 5, 1962; pg. 51, 1 pgs Article 5 -- No Title; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 18, 1962; pg. SM42, 2 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; May 11, 1957; pg. A7, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; May 10, 1957; pg. A19, 1 pgs Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 26, 1948; pg. B13, 1 pgs: _"Mouli" Grater_ $1.00 The famous "Mouli" all-purpose grater (the same model used in France by fine French cuisines)...grates coarse or fine, can be operated right or left-handed. Use it for cheese, nutmeg, cocoanut, chocolate, horseradish or crackers and various kinds of vegetables...with no contact between your fingers and the grate drum. Sanitary drum is easily removed for cleaning. No skinned knuckles or broken nails with the Mouli Grater. --------------------------------------------------------------- MUFFIN PAN Not in the revised OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry and an illustration. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 16, 1888; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Flour Dredges, 3c; 6-ring Muffin Pans, 10c; Potato Mashers, 1c;...") TIN YEARS OF MATRIMONY.; A Tintinnabulation of Tin Plate, and Tinternells and Tin Cups of Tinte.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 13, 1878; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Among them were spice and cake boxes, a muffin pan, an egg beater,...") --------------------------------------------------------------- MUSTARD SPOON Again, not in the revised OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry and an illustration. Silver mustard spoons often made the newspapers by being stolen. 18 August 1845, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGE, pg. 2: The extent of the robbery appears to have been a teapot, sugar bowl, three table spoons, two salt and two mustard spoons, all silver, and some articles of clothing, together valued at about $150. Classified Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Dec 31, 1856; pg. 5, 2 pgs Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Jan 31, 1854; pg. 5, 2 pgs BROOKLYN CITY.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1852; pg. 1, 1 pgs ("GRAND LARCENY...1 silver mustard spoon.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 07:29:35 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:29:35 -0400 Subject: Potato Masher (1852); Snifter (1934, 1936) Message-ID: Even the revised OED is pretty bad on culinary equipment, and there's a lot more. I live on East 57th Street, near Bloomingdale's. Once I walk about two blocks to the Williams-Sonoma store and ask for the catalog, look out. --------------------------------------------------------------- POTATO MASHER OED has 1855 for the popular "potato masher." The American Periodical Series might have earlier, but I'm at NYU. 6 April 1852, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: ...1 potato masher... --------------------------------------------------------------- SNIFTER OED has 1937 for the glass. 1. NEW THINGS LURE THE CITY SHOPPER; Variety of Christmas Gifts for Women Are to Be Found at Moderate Prices. ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 6, 1936; pg. D9, 1 pgs ("Liqueur glasses that are distinctive and at the same time easily replaceable are copies of brandy snifters in miniature. They are about two inches high, with tiny stems and squat, tapered little bowls.") 2. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 2, 1934; pg. 7, 1 pgs: _AN ARISTOCRATIC SNIFTER_ For modern convenience Saks has reproduced the Classic Brandy Inhaler in a size to fit in Penthouse cupboards--these beautifully proportioned glasses have a narrow gold brim balanced by another at the base. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 08:08:31 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 04:08:31 -0400 Subject: Sour Glass (1934); Pilsener Glass (1935); Tomato Knife (1956) Message-ID: SOUR GLASS OED has no entry for "sour glass." Display Ad 54 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 21, 1937; pg. 14, 1 pgs Display Ad 75 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 17, 1937; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 15, 1936; pg. X21, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 19, 1934; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("SPECIAL glasses for whiskey sours, 10.00 per dozen (and if you have ever tried to find whiskey sour glasses, you know that you usually get a bewildered look)." Sold by Saks Fifth Avenue--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- PILSENER GLASS OED has 1966 for "Pilsener glass." I checked for "Pilsener" and "Pilsner." Display Ad 49 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 30, 1941; pg. 48, 1 pgs (A Macy's ad shows several glasses, including "Pilsener"--ed.) New Things in City Shops: For the Place in the Country; The Five-and-Tens Offer a Great Variety Not Only in China and Glassware but Also in Other Items for the House and for Picnics; By CHARLOTTE HUGHES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 6, 1941; pg. D7, 1 pgs ("...tall sloping pilsener glasses on round bases;...") BLACKOUT for BEER?; A Germany without beer, the ideal of the present rulers of the State, seems a strange and melancholy prospect.; By CLAIR PRICE, European and Times Wide World; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1940; pg. 115, 1 pgs ("...and some note of lyric happiness would sing in the depths of his orderly German soul as he worked out the number of tall tapering Pilsener glasses or the number of Bavarian mugs that would be filled by that ocean of German beer.") Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 25, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("30 dozen Pilsner glasses in plaid design" is in an ad for B. Altman & Co., Fifth Avenue and 34th Street. The place that once sold Pilsner glasses now houses the NYPL's Science Industry, and Business Library, where they can't find all my books--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- TOMATO KNIFE Not in OED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has an entry and an illustration. I'll add it here to please the tomato crowd out there, before I forget. Display Ad 75 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jun 9, 1977; pg. B13, 1 pgs Display Ad 1043 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 3, 1976; pg. 21, 1 pgs Display Ad 36 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 17, 1968; pg. 23, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 16, 1965; pg. 4, 1 pgs For Tangy Treats Use Cottage Cheese; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1965; pg. D9, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 6, 1965; pg. 7, 1 pgs News of the Advertising and Marketing Fields; Methods of Promoting Scientifc Advances Come Under Attack; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 8, 1956; pg. 66, 1 pgs Food: Cookie Forms; Wood Blocks Can Press Out Such Shapes As Gingerbread Men, Birds and Animals ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 12, 1956; pg. 43, 1 pgs ("Bazar Francais also has a tomato knife ($1.98) with a serrated edge that permits the softest tomato to be cleanly sliced.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 08:52:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 04:52:28 -0400 Subject: Omelet Pan (1865); Paella Pan (1960; Springform Pan (1960) Message-ID: OMELET PAN OED has no entry. Again, there's an entry and an illustration in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. There are over 8,000 Google hits. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Goodfellow, Mrs. Title: Mrs. Goodfellow's cookery as it should be. A new manual of the dining room and kitchen ... Publication date: [1865] Page 120 - 1 term ("...put a piece of butter in your omelet-pan upon a slow fire;...") 9 January 1879, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Before mixing the white of the eggs I carefully grease the omelet pan with the butter, and, having done, I put all my ingredients into the pan. Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 5, 1893; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Retinned Omelet Pans" for sale at WOODWARD & LOTHROP--ed.) MEALS FOR A DAY.; LEAVING HOME FOR A DAY OR TWO--HARMONY IN THE HOUSEHOLD.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 14, 1882; pg. 11, 1 pgs OTHER RECEIPTS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 10, 1881; pg. 13, 1 pgs HOW TO COOK EGGS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 9, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs RECEIPTS FOR THE TABLE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 15, 1880; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("...melt an ounce of the butter in an omelet pan,...") --------------------------------------------------------------- PAELLA PAN Not in OED. Store Places Kitchen Aid In Spotlight; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 8, 1960; pg. 16, 1 pgs Gourmet Shop Proves Nostalgic for Traveler; By CYNTHIA KELLOGG; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 7, 1960; pg. 36, 1 pgs (Bloomingdale's Au Gourmet Shop. "'We're the only store in the United States, I think, that carries paella pans,' Mr. Meyers boasted, pointing out the shallow, wide round pans ($3.95 to $9.95), which the Spaniards use for the succulent combinations of rice, fish pimento, pepper and chicken.") Dishes From Castile; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 25, 1955; pg. SM52, 2 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- SPRINGFORM PAN Not in OED. Food Guide Assists Budgeting Housewife; RUM BUNS; Anne's Reader Exchange; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 5, 1960; pg. C2, 1 pgs ("Grease an 8-inch spring form pan and line bottom with waxed paper.") Chocolate -- The Favored Flavor; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 6, 1960; pg. SM66, 1 pgs ("Turn into an eight-inch springform pan.") From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Sat Apr 19 09:03:27 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 10:03:27 +0100 Subject: Omelet Pan (1865); Paella Pan (1960; Springform Pan (1960) In-Reply-To: <4F9B609C.438BB456.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: Barry Popik wroteL > OMELET PAN OED has no entry. Er, my copy does, though it gives it as "omelette (frying)-pan", with a first entry in that form from 1846. The first example of "omelette pan" is from 1879, so you've dead-heated with OED2 there. -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 10:40:44 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 06:40:44 -0400 Subject: Food Additive(1945); Food Poisoning(1886); Meat Byproduct(1927); Crab Cracker; Lobster Cracker Message-ID: I planned to re-check "omelet/omelette pan" later today with the American Periodical Series. Sorry if I made an error there and didn't see "omelette frying-pan." --------------------------------------------------------------- FOOD ADDITIVE OED has 1958 for "food additive." The Civilian Atom; Radiation Promises Longer Life for Food That Now Spoils Easily Scientists Keep Meat Cuts Fresh for Weeks, Bread for Months, Spuds for Years Future Marketing Revolution?; BY RAY VICKER Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 19, 1954; pg. 1, 2 pgs Today's Calendar; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Apr 14, 1954; pg. 50, 1 pgs Radioactive Atoms Are Proving Gold Mine To Industry, Farms; New Techniques Bring Savings in The Millions and It's Only the Beginning Radioactive Atoms Are Proving Gold Mine To Industry, Farms ; BY RAY CROMLEY Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 25, 1953; pg. 1, 2 pgs U. S. FOOD AIDE ASKS DRIVE ON 'QUACKS'; Experts at Nutrition Meeting Hear Law Is Skirted -- Court Criticized on Inspection ; By BESS FURMANSpecial to THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 10, 1952; pg. 46, 1 pgs Atom, Germ Attack Couldn't Seriously Cut U.S. Food-Supply, Nutrition Group Told; By Aubrey Graves Country Life Editor; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 10, 1952; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("Crawford said the Food and Drug Law also lacks authority 'to properly regulate the sea of food additives with strange chemical names, some of which may be harmful or otherwise contrary to consumer interest.'") Display Ad 35 -- No Title; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 11, 1945; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("The beverages, baby foods, dextrose sugars, food additives and the manifold uses of alcohol in peace have their origin in _malt_.") --------------------------------------------------------------- FOOD POISONING OED has 1887. (JSTOR database) Volume Information Science, Vol. 8, No. 204. (Dec. 31, 1886). Pg. 643: Food-poisoning, 279. --------------------------------------------------------------- MEAT BY-PRODUCT Not in OED? There are many food "by-products." WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has: "_meat by-products_ The edible and wholesome parts of a beef, veal, lamb or pork carcass other than skeletal meat. _See_ variety meats." Display Ad 170 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 23, 1947; pg. SM63, 1 pgs WPB Urges Cut in Output Of Sausage; Old Established Makers of 'Franks' Endangered by Excess of Product; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 6, 1943; pg. B1, 1 pgs Display Ad 39 -- No Title; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 11, 1927; pg. 11, 1 pgs ("_A Meat by-product worth $5,000 a pound_" is the title of an ad by Armour and Company--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CRAB CRACKER Not in OED. It's used to eat crabs. NELL'S BEAU ATE; So Willis "Jes Riles Up" and Lands on Martha's Eye. TIRED OF BEING THE "GOAT" Hodcarrier From Montgomery County Didn't Object to Providing Food for Boarding House, but He Sure "'Jected to Half a Sweet 'Tater; The Washington Post, Washington, D.C.; Sep 11, 1910; pg. A12, 1 pgs ("In proof of her story that Willis 'done clout me wif a crab crackah,' she exhibited as fine a specimen of a black eye as ever came into the courtroom, and there have been many.") --------------------------------------------------------------- LOBSTER CRACKER Not in OED. It's used to eat lobsters. There's also "lobster pincer," but Historical Newspapers didn't seem to have that. Display Ad 44 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 7, 1913; pg. CA9, 1 pgs ("Lobster cracker.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 19:59:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:59:53 -0400 Subject: Spoonula (1956) Message-ID: SPOONULA=spoon + spatula. I guess they couldn't go with "spatoon." It's not in my food dictionaries, but I saw it in the Williams-Sonoma catalog (www.williams-sonoma.com). Here are trademark records: Word Mark SPOONULA Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 009. US 026. G & S: Stainless Steel Laboratory Tools Having a Spoon on One End and a Spatula on the Other End. FIRST USE: 19560900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19560900 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72082418 Filing Date September 30, 1959 Registration Number 0698571 Registration Date May 31, 1960 Owner (REGISTRANT) FISHER SCIENTIFIC COMPANY CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 717 FORBES ST. PITTSBURGH PENNSYLVANIA Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19800531 Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date June 9, 2001 Word Mark SPOONULA Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 021. US 002 013 023 029 030 033 040 050. G & S: Spatulas Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 76317870 Filing Date September 27, 2001 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Owner (APPLICANT) Progressive International Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 6111 South 228th Street Kent WASHINGTON 98064 Attorney of Record John R. Benefiel Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date July 16, 2002 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 19 23:34:17 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:34:17 -0400 Subject: Plett Pan(1961); Grapefruit Knife(1916); Grapefruit Spoon(1912) Message-ID: GRAPEFRUIT KNIFE OED has no entry, but two 1970s hits. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 12, 1924; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 25, 1919; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 9, 1916; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Grapefruit Knives. 25c and up" at Woodward & Lothrop--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- GRAPEFRUIT SPOON OED has no entry for "grapefruit spoon." Display Ad 223 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 3, 1919; pg. 52, 1 pgs Display Ad 43 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 9, 1918; pg. F5, 1 pgs ("Orange or Graphefruit Spoons" sold at The Shopping Center at The Palais Royal--ed.) SILVERWARE FOR THE TABLE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1912; pg. X11, 1 pgs ("Orange knives are made with the saw edge, and the grapefruit spoon, which differs from the orange spoon by being made broader at the end of the heel of the bowl, is new only in pattern; in fact, that is about the only difference that could be made in it, for, contrived on the basis of the size of the grapefruit cells, it could scarcely be improved from its present plan.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PLETT PAN OED has no entry for "plett pan." I have to do something for the ADS-L readers from Sweden. Just About Everything But the Kitchen Sink; Ultimate Gifts: Just About Everything But the Kitchen Sink; By Phyllis C. Richman, Special to The Washington Post; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 6, 1973; pg. F1, 2 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 26, 1973; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 3, 1971; pg. 5, 1 pgs Natural haunts of that rare bird, the gourmet; Dresden is Potomac's dining critic.; By Donald Dresden; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1970; pg. 251, 8 pgs Display Ad 84 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Apr 8, 1970; pg. B16, 1 pgs Display Ad 72 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 23, 1964; pg. 73, 1 pgs New Household Gadgets Find Favor in the Shops; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 7, 1963; pg. 40, 1 pgs ("At Macy's, the $2.79 Plett Pan, for making seven Swedish pancakes at a time, is very popular, according to George Edelstein, the buyer.") Article 5 -- No Title; Swedish Cook Advocate of Simplicity; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 2, 1961; pg. 41, 1 pgs Variety of Pancakes Come Into Their Own on Tuesday; Blini, Flapjacks and Crepes Linked With Day; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 9, 1961; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("Call them plattar or blini, flapjacks or crepes, next Tuesday marks the day when pancakes come into their own.") (PHOTO CAPTION: "A plett pan, pictured above, simplifies the cooking of the small Swedish pancakes and the Russian blini.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 00:15:41 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:15:41 -0400 Subject: Pizza Cutter(1961); Pizelle Iron(1949); Pizzelle(1912); Gaufrette(1926) Message-ID: PIZZA CUTTER OED doesn't eat pizza. Display Ad 160 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 15, 1969; pg. F6, 1 pgs ("Stainless steel pizza cutter...") Records Designed To Teach Children; By Dorothea M. Brooks; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jul 29, 1967; pg. D13, 1 pgs ("Comes complete with pans, lifter, pizza cutter and a package of prepared cheese pizza mix.") Food News; Pasta at Bruno's Is Fresh Each Day; By JUNE OWEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 21, 1961; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("Espresso coffee machines from a one-cup size to a restaurant model costing $8,000 also are among the products on hand, along with Italian dolls, glass from Murano, pizza cutters and bottled herbs and spices.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PIZELLE IRON OED has no entry for "pizelle iron." News of Food; New Device Lends South's Touch to Meals by Baking Hot Bread and Cakes Quickly ; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 6, 1949; pg. 36, 1 pgs ("A utensil of longer culinary tradition than most experts would dare to estimate is being revived for the use of epicure-cooks. It is called a gaufrette or pizelle iron, and turns out (after one has had a little experience with it) crisp, delicate wafers of the type that is classic with champagne and sweet wine, at least in France and Italy. ... One iron consists of two extremely long handles, terminating in two hinged-together grids (round or square, according to the style). The batter is put between the grids, the handles clamped together, and the grids held over a burner for just about a minute. Out comes the gaufrette, or as we would say, wafer--flaky, golden brown, ready to be served or rolled as a cornucopia for ice cream, custard or other dessert.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PIZZELLE Not in OED. FACTS AND FANCIES IN WOMAN'S WORLD; FACTS AND FANCIES IN WOMAN'S WORLD; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 22, 1912; pg. 4, 2 pgs ("Pizzelle." A long recipe follows--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- GAUFRETTE Not in OED. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 3, 1932; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 21, 1932; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("Gaufrette Potatoes" is served at Longchamps restaurant--ed.) Cooking as a Tradition, an Art and a Necessity; Three Books Which Deal With What Goes Into the Inner Man; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 4, 1926; pg. BR9, 1 pgs ("...gateau noisette, almond rolls, gaufrettes, imitation fruits, banana jalousie, almond pasties, petits fours.") From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Sun Apr 20 00:53:37 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:53:37 -0400 Subject: possible antedating of Melungeon/Malungeon? Message-ID: The OED has 1840 (but spelled "malungeon" in the cite). My M-W Collegiate doesn't recognize it as a word. An investigative reporter wrote an article which said [The word was used in the September 26th, 1813 minutes of the Stoney Creek church of Virginia. Sister Susanna Kitchen brought a complaint to the church against Sister Susanna "Sookie" Stallard for "harboring them Melungins."] The link to his article is http://www.eclectica.org/v5n3/hashaw.html As a secondary issue, the writer claims that the word is from the Kimbundu language spoken by the Mbundu nation in Angola in the 1600's and originally meant "watercraft" and that the "shipmates" who were brought to the US used the term to refer to themselves. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 01:44:42 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:44:42 -0400 Subject: Wine List(1854, 1855); Fortified Wine(1874); Ice Wine(1953); Jug Wine(1971) Message-ID: WINE LIST OED has "wine list" from George Bernard Shaw's 1898 play, YOU NEVER CAN TELL. COLLEGE COMMENCEMENTS; Yale College Baccalaureate Address--Pal Upsilon Convention--Concle ad Clerum--Alumnl Meeting.. ; Correspondence of the New-York Daily Times.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Jul 27, 1855; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("One curiousity of the bill of fare we must not omit to notice,--it was got up with the profoundest respect to the Prohibitory Liquor Law of the State--there was no wine list." NO WINE AT YALE??--ed.) THE BLACK WARRIOR AFFAIR.; Full and Authentic Statement of Facts. ; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; May 29, 1854; pg. 3, 1 pgs (The "wine list" here is the context of a ship's holdings--ed.) 6 December 1856, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: In the meantime, guests at the Delavan House will please look on the back of the bill-of-fare at the dinner table for the wine list, and order up such brands as suit them best. 6 August 1857, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: MANSION HOUSE, BROOKLYN, AUGUST 5TH, 1857. (...) WINE LIST. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: [Underhill, Edward Fitch] 1830-1898. Title: The history and records of the Elephant club; comp. from authentic documents now in possession of the Zo?ological society. By Knight Russ Ockside, M. D. [pseud.] and Q. K. Philander Doesticks, P. B. [pseud.] Publication date: 1857. ("He then opened his bill of fare at the wine-list, and after puzzling for some time over the names, put his finger in the middle, and told the waiter he would 'have some of that.'") --------------------------------------------------------------- FORTIFIED WINE OED and Merriam-Webster have 1906 for "fortified wine." WASTING PRECIOUS TIME; ANOTHER DAY DEVOTED TO THE PAYNE SCANDAL. A VOTE TO BE REACHED TO-DAY ON THE INVESTIGATION--THE SESSION OF THE HOUSE DAWDLED AWAY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 23, 1886; pg. 1, 1 pgs ("The bill to abrogate the Hawaiian treaty, that to make effective the Mexican treaty, one for regulating the tax on fortified wines, and several others were laid aside in turn.") THE MANUFACTURE OF SHERRY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1874; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Even these advocates of the fortified wine admit, however, that port an sherry never enter the London docks with less than thirty-eight to forty-two per cent. 'proof-spirit' or alcohol.") --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE WINE OED has 1963 for "ice wine." Merriam-Webster has 1967? News of Food; Britain Bids for U. S. Kipper Market -- 'Edinburger' Is Skinned, Boned, Frozen ; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 9, 1953; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("_Ice Wine From Germany._ ... It is an eiswein (literally, ice wine) from one of the greatest German vineyards, the Schloss Johannisberg. ... The eiswein, to return to it, is slightly sweet with a dry finish and with the characteristic, marked bouquet of the fine German white wines.") --------------------------------------------------------------- JUG WINE Merriam-Webster has 1972 for "jug wine." Display Ad 49 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 29, 1971; pg. A23, 1 pgs ("GALLON IMPORTED SPANISH 'JUG WINE'") Good Things Come in Big Jugs; Consumer; By Peter Weaver; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 21, 1971; pg. 108, 1 pgs ("For example, some excellent bargains can be found in the so-called 'American jug wines' sold in gallon or half-gallon bottles.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 02:33:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:33:25 -0400 Subject: Cake Breaker (1932, 1938); Corn Holder (1907) Message-ID: CAKE BREAKER Not in OED. CALE J. SCHNEIDER, INVENTOR, 79, DIES; Special to The New York Times; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 29, 1971; pg. 26, 1 pgs: Cale J. Schneider, who invented a multi-pronged cake breaker to slice the softest cake, and currently in use as a comb for Afro-American coiffures, died today in his Toledo home. He was 79 years old. Mr. Schneider patented the cake breaker in 1932, the year after he founded a manufacturing concern here under his name. The cake breaker is a fork-like utensil with about a dozen thin prongs. ... For two years, Pillsbury Flour Mills and Duncan Hines purchased hundreds of thousands of the cake breakers to distribute as premiums with their cake mixes. ... Mr. Schneider also invented sweet-corn holders under the name Kob-Knobs. Notes for the Shopper Around Town; By MARY MADISON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 18, 1942; pg. D2, 1 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1938; pg. 15, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 9, 1938; pg. 6, 1 pgs Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 9, 1938; pg. S5, 1 pgs (THE CAKE BREAKER. An ideal article for use in cutting Sponger Cake or Angel Food Cake.") --------------------------------------------------------------- CORN HOLDER Not in OED. Display Ad 13 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 13, 1910; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 9, 1910; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 23, 1909; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 22, 1909; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 7, 1907; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("_Knickerbocker Corn Holders._ For holding corn to be eaten from cob; avoids soiling the hands. 10c pair." Sold at Woodward & Lohtrop--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 03:25:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:25:27 -0400 Subject: Silverware, "Spork," Salad/Ice Tongs, Butter Spreader, Cake Lifter (1893) Message-ID: STUDY OF FORKS; SHARES IN TABLE SILVERWARE FOR THE DINER OUT. New Designs That Are Constantly Coming Into Fashion Demand Alertness on the Part of the Guest -- The Evolution of the Spoon -- The Fork and Its Modern Uses; New York Times (1857, New York, N.Y.; Aug 6, 1893; pg. 11, 1 pgs (...) The dinner progresses until the salad, when comes a huge novelty, a substitute in silver for the lettuce fork and spoon of carved wood. The new creation is a formidable pair of tongs, one end terminating in a large spoon and the other in a large fork, whose prong tips are slightly curved in. Altogether the tongs are a foot long, and the half curve, where you are to grasp them for use, is a handful. The idea is pretty enough, but the present form of carrying it out is too massive, lettuce being so very light. In open-worked silver with a shortened handle the lettuce tongs will become dainty and appropriate. (...)(The unsuccessful "strawberry fork" and "ice cream spoon" are described--ed.) With the latter supper has to share the new combination spoon and fork intended for serving chicken or celery salad. This clever idea of some worker in the precisions metal has, at the end of a long delicate handle, what begins as the bowl of a spoon and ends in three prongs of a fork, sloping outward beyond the outer edge of the bowl. (...)("Bread fork" and "cold meat fork" described--ed.) At breakfast appears the awkward, unornamented "cake lifter" and the cunning little butter "spreader," a new adjunct to the lately added table article, the bread-and-butter plate. The "spreader" is a knife five or six inches long, with a blade varying in size from a half to three-quarters of an inch. One side of the end of the blade is rounded, the other side rises in a point divided into two teeth. You break apart your lump of butter with the teeth, and the blade spreads it on the bread. The butter knife of our fathers is no longer in need. The new notion is to serve butter in tiny balls or curls or cubes patted in the home pantry and kept solid in a cool place until serving. For helping there is a spear or lance of silver or gold, the point of which is thrust through the butter ball and so transferred to the bread-and-butter plate. (...)(Orange spoon, knife, and holder are described--ed.) Cracked ice spoons with small fluted bowls are to replace the pretty, insecure little ice tongs. (...) The applying of the word silver to our tableware is an Americanism, the sister nation using our language speaks of the same thing as plate. NOTES: SILVERWARE--OED has 1860, Merriam-Webster 1848. "Silver ware" is in the BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE from the very beginning in 1841. I'll check the American Periodical Series tomorrow. BUTTER SPREADER--Not in OED, but in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. CAKE LIFTER--Not in OED, but in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. "SPORK"--The spoon/fork is not mentioned here by that name. Unfortunately, there's no illustration. ICE TONGS--OED has this from 1858. SALAD TONGS--OED has no entry. Described here is what OED has as a "salad server," from 1907. From jester at PANIX.COM Sun Apr 20 03:29:04 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:29:04 -0400 Subject: Meat Substitute (1893) In-Reply-To: <77EA820E.25D7D117.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 11:31:49PM -0400, Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > OED has 1931 for "meat substitute." This is the revised > OED. Seemingly everyone should know that "meat substitutes" > were used during World War I, at least. > > There are two earlier BROOKLYN EAGLE hits (1870s and 1880s), > but the system has been changed a little and I didn't see > them. Neither of them is relevant. Jesse Sheidlower From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 03:54:18 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:54:18 -0400 Subject: Bean Pot (1832); Box Grater (1900); Egg Slicer (1903) Message-ID: BEAN POT There's no "bean pot" entry in OED? I'll check the American Periodical Series tomorrow. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) Cattle Shows and Conventions, and Other Matters, by Porcus: pp. 411-414 p. 414 1 match of 'bean pot*' in: Title: The New-England magazine. / Volume 3, Issue 5 Publisher: J. T. and E. Buckingham Publication Date: Nov 1832 City: Boston Pages: 534 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABS8100-0003&byte=116717794 Pg. 414: And again, does not your favorite dish of the bean-pot owe the richness of its flavor, to the once despised tenant of the hog-pen? --------------------------------------------------------------- BOX GRATER Not in OED. It's in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS, and my family had one in our home. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1906; pg. 14, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 7, 1904; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 29, 1904; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1903; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1901; pg. 2, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 3, 1901; pg. 8, 1 pgs Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 16, 1900; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("BOX GRATERS, large. 5c.") --------------------------------------------------------------- EGG SLICER OED has "egg slicer" from 1951. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS has a nice illustration, but the term "egg slicer" is vague. What did the 1903 "egg slicer" look like? Display Ad 59 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 8, 1923; pg. X8, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 9, 1923; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 8, 1923; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 69 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 21, 1917; pg. X1, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 27, 1916; pg. X1, 1 pgs Display Ad 46 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 7, 1913; pg. CA11, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 5, 1903; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("EGG SLICERS...10.") From douglas at NB.NET Sun Apr 20 05:14:53 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:14:53 -0400 Subject: possible antedating of Melungeon/Malungeon? In-Reply-To: <000801c306d7$494b1ae0$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: >The OED has 1840 (but spelled "malungeon" in the cite). > >... An investigative reporter wrote an article which said > > [The word was used in the September 26th, 1813 minutes of the Stoney > Creek church of Virginia. Sister Susanna Kitchen brought a complaint to > the church against Sister Susanna "Sookie" Stallard for "harboring them > Melungins."] > >... As a secondary issue, the writer claims that the word is from the >Kimbundu language spoken by the Mbundu nation in Angola in the 1600's and >originally meant "watercraft" and that the "shipmates" who were brought to >the US used the term to refer to themselves. One would need to review the primary document, I suppose ... probably handwritten? Portuguese etymological dictionaries do show "malungo" (= "comrade" or so) as definitely from Kimbundu, the exact form and meaning of the ancestral Kimbundu word apparently uncertain however. I have no Kimbundu reference book available to me. I'm not convinced about "melungeon" however: the "g" is not the same "g" as in "malungo". Origin from "melange" seems phonetically and semantically believable, and "melange" is old in English, so you don't need to involve any Frenchmen. My own wild guess, however, is "Melungeon" < "Mulatto" + "Indian"/"Injun". -- Doug Wilson From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Sun Apr 20 17:22:57 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 Subject: arnetted Message-ID: another nonce eponym (add to dixiechicked) Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for better information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to a new verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, he will be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC network for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki http://www.ahram-eg.com/weekly/2003/634/op10.htm From dcamp911 at JUNO.COM Sun Apr 20 19:05:57 2003 From: dcamp911 at JUNO.COM (Duane Campbell) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:05:57 -0400 Subject: arnetted Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 mark worden > Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for > better > information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to > a new > verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, > he will > be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC > network > for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki Interesting. It brings up a question I have been mulling for a couple of weeks now, ever since the claimed targeting of al Jazera (my spell checker is of no help there). What is the difference between propoganda and journalism? A propoganda operation is a legitimate war target, a journalist is not. Well, usually not. Certainly there is the I-know-it-when-I-see-it element, and the ends of the continuum are pretty recognizable. But can a line be drawn? Is a definition possible that separates them? D From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Sun Apr 20 20:42:20 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:42:20 -0700 Subject: arnetted Message-ID: Some targets are more legitimate than others :: View from Baghdad: Anger at US grows as hunger, looting and gunfights grip the streets. By Nick Meo They didn't want Saddam Hussein back, but most Iraqis were clear about why they had been 'liberated'. 'America bombed the communications ministry, the agriculture ministry and the sports ministry,' said Amir, a taxi driver. 'But they didn't touch the oil ministry.' Sure enough the building was standing intact next to its charred neighbours in the government district, heavily guarded by US troops in contrast to the museum which had its priceless collection destroyed and stolen. http://www.sundayherald.com/33190 > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Duane Campbell > Subject: Re: arnetted > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:22:57 -0700 mark worden > > > Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for > > better > > information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to > > a new > > verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, > > he will > > be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC > > network > > for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki > > Interesting. > > It brings up a question I have been mulling for a couple of weeks now, > ever since the claimed targeting of al Jazera (my spell checker is of no > help there). What is the difference between propoganda and journalism? A > propoganda operation is a legitimate war target, a journalist is not. > Well, usually not. > > Certainly there is the I-know-it-when-I-see-it element, and the ends of > the continuum are pretty recognizable. But can a line be drawn? Is a > definition possible that separates them? > > D > From mam at THEWORLD.COM Sun Apr 20 20:58:18 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:58:18 -0400 Subject: arnetted In-Reply-To: <000f01c3077d$56c28180$6501a8c0@p417vc11> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, mark worden wrote: #Some targets are more legitimate than others :: [...] Interesting and important in terms of politics and the war. How does it relate to the questions and issues it was posted in reply to? As an instance of propaganda? journalism? ...? -- Mark A. Mandel From pds at VISI.COM Sun Apr 20 21:48:10 2003 From: pds at VISI.COM (Tom Kysilko) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:48:10 -0500 Subject: grabillions Message-ID: City Pages, 4/16/2003, "Fashionista Fedayeen": "The Style Network's offerings fall into a few broad categories: . . . Category Two: Shows you watch because you want to look like the Hilton sisters but lack the necessary grabillions of dollars." [also at http://www.citypages.com/databank/24/1167/article11187.asp ] Tom Kysilko Practical Data Services pds at visi.com Saint Paul MN USA From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 22:14:28 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:14:28 -0400 Subject: That's the way the cookie crumbles (1956) Message-ID: OED has September 1957 for the crumbling cookie. Demise of Studio One Stirs Some Memories; By John Crosby; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; May 5, 1958; pg. B13, 1 pgs ("That, as they say, is the way the cookie crumbles.") Horses and People..; By Walter Haight; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Jul 23, 1957; pg. A18, 1 pgs ("...but three days before the Chicago race the cookie crumbled the other way.") Look for Many Hours of Charm; By John Crosby; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 19, 1956; pg. G12, 1 pgs ("THAT'S the way the cookie crumbles--casual.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 22:43:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:43:25 -0400 Subject: Garlic Press(1950); Bulb Baster(1941); Pullman Bread(1932); Pullman Pan(1952) Message-ID: GARLIC PRESS OED has 1958 for "garlic press." Display Ad 38 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 6, 1951; pg. C10, 1 pgs Display Ad 1270 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 18, 1951; pg. SM33, 1 pgs Display Ad 1154 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 1, 1950; pg. 209, 1 pgs FOOD; Kitchen Aids; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 6, 1950; pg. SM16, 1 pgs ("Garlic press, like a miniature potato ricer, is efficient in extracting the juice from savory bulb.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BULB BASTER Not in OED. Hints for the Homemaker; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 3, 1952; pg. S13, 1 pgs Meat Baster; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 2, 1951; pg. S6, 1 pgs ("Your tube-and-bulb baster has many uses besides its main purpose of basting meats and poultry with their own juice.") GADGETS FOR THE KITCHEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 15, 1941; pg. SM18, 1 pgs ("New: bulb baster for basting roasts without burning the hands. Can also be used for drawing off fats from gravies.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PULLMAN BREAD Not in OED. The Homemaker; Recipes Necessary for Week-end Plans.; By NANCY CAREY; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 11, 1932; pg. 13, 1 pgs ("(Pullman bread).") --------------------------------------------------------------- PULLMAN PANS Not in OED. Williams-Sonoma sells them. Classified Ad 117 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 29, 1972; pg. W44, 1 pgs Classified Ad 123 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 22, 1972; pg. W44, 1 pgs Classified Ad 25 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 17, 1960; pg. 278, 1 pgs Classified Ad 45 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 4, 1952; pg. W16, 1 pgs ("250 Pullman pans") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 20 23:45:58 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:45:58 -0400 Subject: Barbecue Sauce(1934); Basting Brush(1954); Barbecue Fork(1947); Potato Ricer(1903); Egg Separator(1895) Message-ID: BARBECUE SAUCE OED has one 1936 citation, but there's no entry. "Barbecue sauce" is like "ketchup," only different. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 31, 1935; pg. 11, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 17, 1935; pg. F2, 1 pgs Smoked Butt Is Substitute For Barbecue; Several Recipes Make Cut of Ham Delicious With Special Sauce.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs Capital Kitchen; By Susan Mills.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 26, 1934; pg. 14, 1 pgs Ground Steak Goes High Hat And Delicious; Well-Known Hamburger Leaves Bean Wagon, Becomes Edible.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 27, 1934; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("An informal party may be made an occasion well spent if one can enjoy hamburger barbecues, slipped between soft rolls and flavored with a little relish of barbecue sauce.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BASTING BRUSH Not in OED. Also called a "barbecue brush," although the first citation is for a barbecue grill cleaner. Display Ad 138 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 24, 1959; pg. X24, 1 pgs ("Barbecue Brush...Barbecue Grill Brush..Brass bristles and metal scraper.") Display Ad.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 20, 1959; pg. 13, 1 pgs YOU CAN BARBECUE YOURSELF; By GEORGE GOBEL; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 21, 1955; pg. TAW10, 1 pgs Display Ad 277 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 22, 1955; pg. 290, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 28, 1954; pg. 4, 1 pgs: TO SEASON Barbecue Sauce Hickory Smoke Salt Mustard Sauce Crooked Black Peppers Herbs-Spices-Vinegar TO GRILL Basting Spoons Basting Brushes Barbecue Forks Hamburger Grills --------------------------------------------------------------- BARBECUE FORK Not in OED. I guess Oxford doesn't barbecue. Display Ad 30 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 1, 1953; pg. 31, 1 pgs Display Ad 1 -- No Title; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 20, 1948; pg. 2, 1 pgs Contemporary Furniture At Its Best; MARY ROCHE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 4, 1948; pg. SM38, 2 pgs Milk Increase Debated; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 29, 1947; pg. B2, 1 pgs Has Anyone Told You?; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 10, 1947; pg. B6, 1 pgs ("BARBECUE FORK has been designed with a trigger control. It can be used for picking up--and holding fast--steaks, frankfurters, toasts; lifting hot pans and dishes from barbecue pits or open fires. The tines are made of heat-treated steel.") --------------------------------------------------------------- POTATO RICER OED has 1936 for "potato ricer." Display Ad 17 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 7, 1909; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 6, 1908; pg. 3, 1 pgs Some Palatable Summer Dishes.; Peanut Bisque.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 24, 1908; pg. X7, 1 pgs FOR THE CHAFING DISH.; Delicious Recipes Furnished by Mrs. Elisabeth O. Hiller.; From the Housekeeper.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 6, 1903; pg. A9, 1 pgs ("Press the yolks of two hard-boiled eggs and the lobster coral through a potato ricer.") --------------------------------------------------------------- EGG SEPARATOR Not in OED. PRACTICAL INVENTIONS TO SAVE LABOR, TIME, AND TROUBLE; The Modern Kitchen Is Filled with New Helpful Devices That Ease the Way of the Cook.; By ANNE RITTENHOUSE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 23, 1908; pg. X9, 1 pgs Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 22, 1905; pg. R2, 1 pgs Classified Ad 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1903; pg. 11, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 19, 1903; pg. TP3, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 29, 1903; pg. 27, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1902; pg. 17, 1 pgs Display Ad 21 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 24, 1895; pg. 24, 1 pgs ("Egg Separator, for separating white and yolk. 14cts.") From mam at THEWORLD.COM Sun Apr 20 23:59:26 2003 From: mam at THEWORLD.COM (Mark A Mandel) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:59:26 -0400 Subject: That's the way the cookie crumbles (1956) In-Reply-To: <796826A8.04BACF72.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: Just a thought on reading your latest antedates, Barry: You are awesome in your production of these, and I do mean 'awe-inspiring'. Bravo! -- Mark A. Mandel From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 01:35:00 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 21:35:00 -0400 Subject: Oven Mitt (1946); Rub (1990?) Message-ID: OVEN MITT OED has 1969. News of Food; Utensils for Preparing Thanksgiving Fare Are Found Plentiful and Varied This Year ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 22, 1952; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 231 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 2, 1952; pg. SM68, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 6, 1952; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 30, 1952; pg. 5, 1 pgs Classified Ad 44 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 18, 1952; pg. W15, 1 pgs Display Ad 310 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 16, 1952; pg. SG49, 1 pgs Display Ad 193 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 17, 1952; pg. 201, 1 pgs Display Ad 185 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1946; pg. 63, 1 pgs ("PAIR OF OVEN MITTS" at Abraham & Straus store--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- SPICE, STEAK RUB Not in OED under "rub"? Food Notes; A restaurant sauce for home cooking A savory rub for venison A cookbook for "Casablanca" fans Harvest fairs.; Florence Fabricant; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 16, 1992; pg. C7, 1 pgs A Serious Effort To Present Mexico's Regional Cuisines; By FLORENCE FABRICANT, CHICAGO; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 29, 1992; pg. C1, 2 pgs A GOOD GRILLING; BY MOLLY O'NEILL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 31, 1992; pg. SM59, 2 pgs Rejuvenating Faded Flavor Of 1990's Food; Rejuvenating the Faded Flavors of the Food Grown for the 90's; By MOLLY O'NEILL; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 14, 1990; pg. C1, 2 pgs ("Marinades and spice rubs, infused vinegars and oils, and a battery of exotic seasonings that add taste, without excessive calories or cholesterol, have all entered the arsenal of cooks who fight for flavor.") Word Mark PBBQ PAUL'S BARBEQUE SPICES & RUBS Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: Seasonings, spices, condiments, namely, relish, sauces and rubs to flavor and season and enhance food Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 011503 260102 Serial Number 78115528 Filing Date March 18, 2002 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition April 1, 2003 Owner (APPLICANT) Egan, Paul INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES PO BOX 32156 Washington D.C. 20007 Attorney of Record Stevan Lieberman Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "BARBECUE SPICES & RUBS" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark TENNESSEE STYLE DRY BAR-B-QUE RUB & COOKING SPICE RIBS CHICKEN FISH Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: spices. FIRST USE: 19911000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19911000 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 011711 030709 030724 031503 031524 031924 031925 240907 260121 Serial Number 74302736 Filing Date August 10, 1992 Published for Opposition August 17, 1993 Registration Number 1803352 Registration Date November 9, 1993 Owner (REGISTRANT) Lambrecht, Thomas E. DBA Lambrecht Food Service INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 5122 Adams Road Hixson TENNESSEE 37343 Attorney of Record Alan Ruderman Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TENNESSEE STYLE DRY BAR-B-QUE RUB & COOKING SPICE RIBS CHICKEN FISH" and the representation of a pig, a chicken, a fish and the state of Tennessee APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date December 23, 2000 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 03:06:26 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:06:26 -0400 Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Message-ID: Again, OED has 1860 and Merriam-Webster 1848 for "silverware." I don't think these are the "silverware" we all know and love (forks, spoons, knives), but take a look. (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES database) March 19, 1761 The Pennsylvania Gazette Cheltenham Township, Philadelphia County. WHEREAS the Partnership between Isaac and George Shoemaker is dissolved, all Persons indebted to them for Goods, are desired to make speedy Payment; and those that have any Demands against said Partnership, to bring in their Accounts, that they may be adjusted. --- The Business will be continued at said Store as usual, by John and Isaac Shoemaker, where the Publick may be supplied with the following Goods, at the most reasonable Rates, viz. West Indian and Philadelphia rum, wine, melasses, sugars, salt and train oil, tar, linseed oils, sweet oil, and spirits of turpentine, Godfreycordials, Bateman drops, saffron, camphire, borax, rosin, brimstone, antimony, looking glasses, window glass and putty, with most sorts of colours for painting, and dye stuffs, powder, shot and bar lead, horse whips, cotton and wool cards, whale bone, hair brushes, soap and candles, raisins, and most sorts of spices, tea, coffee, chocolate, ginger, Salem and Rhode Island cheese, most sorts of kegs, cedar ware, earthen and stone ware, an assortment of pewter, glass and tin ware, tea kettles and brass kettles of most sizes, iron stoves, pots, kettles and skillets, bake plates, cart boxes, frying pans, London steel, sickles, Dutch and English scythes and whetstones, box and flat irons, files and rasps of various sorts, brass and iron wire, coffee mills, fine and coarse grindstones, most sort of Carpenters, joiners and shoemakers tools, 3,4,6,8,10, 12 and 20d nails, hobs and sprigs, house furniture and coffin furniture. silver watches and watch furniture, silver, brass and Pinchbeck buckles, with sundry other << silver ware>> , and a variety of cutlary, bibles, testaments, histories, school books and stationary; also a good assortment of dry goods, such as fine and coarse broadcloths, cotton velvets, breeches patterns, thicksets, duffils, naps, bearskins, kerseys, halfthicks, serges, flannels, bed ticking, coverlids and blankets, silks, calicoes, camblets, jeans, fustians, barragons, duroys, durants, calimancoes, poplins and shaloons, checks, sheeting, coarse and fine linens, muslins, cambricks and lawns, mens and womens hose, gloves and mitts silk, lawn, gause, cotton and check handkerchief, castor and felt hats, plat and paper hats, with a variety of other goods, suitable for the country. July 5, 1770 The Pennsylvania Gazette ON Friday, the 13th of July, will be SOLD by public VENDUE, at the City Vendue Store, in Front street, all the JEWELLERY, and << SILVER WARE>> , belonging to GEORGE DOWIG, Jeweller and Goldsmith; consisting of garnet earrings, set in gold, chrystal ditto, set in ditto, cluster ditto, set in silver, gold stone rings of all kinds, gold locket buttons, plain gold ditto, gold lockets, best chrystal buttons, set in silver, a variety of plate and buckles, likewise a silversmithflatting mill, all his jewellery and silversmithtools, a Negroe man, by trade a silversmith, a variety of unset stones, garnets for earrings, ditto for rings, chrystals for ear and finger rings, chrystals for buttons, &c. &c. Also all his houshold and kitchen furniture. The sale to begin at 9 oin the morning. September 23, 1772 The Pennsylvania Gazette RICHARD HUMPHREYS, GOLDSMITH, HAVING taken the house in which PHILIP SYNG lately dwelt, hereby informs his friends and the public, that he now carries on the GOLDSMITH Business, in all its branches, at the aforesaid place, a few doors below the Coffeehouse, where he has for sale, a NEAT and GENERAL ASSORTMENT of GOLD and << SILVER WARE>> . Those who will please to favour him with their custom, may be assured of his utmost ability to give satisfaction, both in the quality and workmanship; such favours will be gratefully acknowledged by their friend, (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Saturday Evening Post (1821-1830), Philadelphia; Oct 20, 1827; Vol. VOL. VI, Iss. 0 EPITOME OF NEWS.; pg. 0_002, 1 pgs ("...breaking into a dwelling house and stealing silver ware.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 03:17:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:17:49 -0400 Subject: Bean Pot (1820) Message-ID: (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Atkinson's Casket (1831-1839), Philadelphia; Apr 1832, Iss. 0 1. A DAY OF DISTRESS.; pg. 178, 2 pgs Ladies Port Folio (1820-1820), Boston; Feb 19, 1820; Vol. 1, Iss. 8 2. Back Cover; Anonymous; pg. 64, 1 pgs 3. Poetry; F --; pg. 64, 1 pgs Pg. 64, col. 3: FOR THE LADIES' PORT FOLIO. --- A TRUE STORY. It chanc'd one day, as people say, I think, in Charlestown* square, A stage did wait to take some freight; Which often happens there. A man did strive between to drive The stageman and the road; But stage coach stood, like pile of wood, Still waiting for its load. Now "_Beverly_,"** the man could see, All painted on the stage-- "You lazy sot, move that _bean-pot_," He bellows, in a rage. Stageman, in turn, replies with scorn, "Teamster, I'd let you work Your forward way, but I must stay, Till I take in the _pork_. ESSEX. * A town famous for the best of pork. ** A town famous for raising beans. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 04:42:34 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:42:34 -0400 Subject: Recipe Box (1906, 1941, 1948) Message-ID: http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodli.asp?Keywords=recipe+box&Advanced=spine Cooking.com is on a par with www.williams-sonoma.com, and maybe better. If I've missed any cooking equipment (or any food), please let me know and I'll work on it. OED doesn't have "recipe box." It's a little box kept in the kitchen, with recipes in it on index cards. Those were the days before hand-helds. There is a large time gap between these citations, so use caution. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) The Ladies' Home Journal (1889-1907), Philadelphia; Apr 1906; Vol. Vol. XXIII,, Iss. 0 Advertisement 14 -- No Title; pg. 32, 1 pgs: _HOOSIER KITCHEN CABINET_ (...) The Hoosier metal sugar bin, dust and insect proof (see cut)--the special spice cans, neatly Japanned, air-tight--the housekeeprs' want list of everything used in the kitchen--a wonderful aid to the memory--a card index recipe box, containing the Hoosier system for keeping recipes--the Hoosier aluminum extension sliding table top--gives twice the table space--special cake and bread boxes--the large cupboards and drawers all supply ample room for cooking utensils, tinware, crockery, cereals. (NEW YORK TIMES) News of Food; A Report on Some Recent Research on Available Files for Keeping Recipes; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 29, 1948; pg. 26, 1 pgs ("_The Card-File System_. ...Woolworth has an all-purpose plastic index box that comes in a variety of colors for 79 cents, and a small recipe box in metal for 29 cents.") GADGETS FOR THE KITCHEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 27, 1941; pg. SM14, 1 pgs ("Handy recipe box and menu pad.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 05:59:37 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 01:59:37 -0400 Subject: Candy Shop (1842); Candy Store (1848); Candy Pull (1834) Message-ID: CANDY SHOP OED has 1845 for "candy shop." Graham's Lady's and Gentleman's Magazine (1841-1842), Philadelphia; Aug 1842; Vol. VOL. XXI., Iss. 0 THE JOHNSONS.; BY ANN S. STEPHENS.; pg. 96, 6 pgs Pg. 100: On leaving the candy shop I allowed my tormentor to choose her own directions,... --------------------------------------------------------------- CANDY STORE OED has 1884 for "candy store." 3 March 1848, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: The nurse-maid who brought them over on returning to the city stopped at a cake or candy store some where in Fulton street, and desired the woman who kept it to give the children some soft cake as they had just been having teeth taken out. 11 September 1848, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: 55 Jane Abrahams (widow) candy store --------------------------------------------------------------- CANDY PULL OED has 1887 for "candy pull." 31 December 1872, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 1: They call them "taffy jerks" and "candy yanks" in Georgia, instead of "candy pulls." (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL database) A Kentucky Candy Pulling, by C. D. D.: pp. 46-50 p. 46 2 matches of 'candy pull*' p. 47 1 match of 'candy pull*' p. 48 2 matches of 'candy pull*' p. 49 1 match of 'candy pull*' in: Title: The New-England magazine. / Volume 7, Issue 1 Publisher: J. T. and E. Buckingham Publication Date: July 1834 City: Boston Pages: 526 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABS8100-0007&byte=117737072 From abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Apr 21 06:55:49 2003 From: abatefr at EARTHLINK.NET (Frank Abate) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:55:49 -0400 Subject: FW: arnetted Message-ID: Trouble with the following is that Arnett was surely not speaking the truth in the interview in question. He was offering an opinion, and to the press outlet of the Iraqi regime, in a time of war, and his opinion turned out to be wrong anyway. So what does being arnetted mean? I suspect it means little or nothing, and that it is a usage with a very brief span of life. OED need not bother. It later came out, after his firing by NBC, that this is not the first time that Peter Arnett had made himself more newsworthy than his reporting of the news -- apparently he had manufactured a "quote" during his coverage of the Vietnam War, to give his story more punch. He seems not to be a man of high principles. Frank Abate -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of mark worden Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:23 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: arnetted another nonce eponym (add to dixiechicked) Several recently published articles assert an incredible need for better information. In this context, Peter Arnett's name has given rise to a new verb. People will tell you that if anybody dares to tell the truth, he will be "Arnetted" -- fired, that is, as the journalist was from the NBC network for giving an honest interview to Iraqi television. --Mohamed Hakki http://www.ahram-eg.com/weekly/2003/634/op10.htm From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Mon Apr 21 13:43:29 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:43:29 EDT Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/20/2003 11:07:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bapopik at AOL.COM writes: > I don't think these are the "silverware" we all know and love (forks, > spoons, knives), but take a look. > > > (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES database) > March 19, 1761 > The Pennsylvania Gazette > > silver, brass and Pinchbeck buckles, with sundry other <> , > and a > variety of cutlary, Definitely not knives, forks, and spoons. Table knives would be included under "cutlary". > plat and paper hats, with a variety of other goods, suitable > for the country "paper hats" this early is a surprise---is it an antedating? > > July 5, 1770 > The Pennsylvania Gazette > > ON Friday, the 13th of July, will be SOLD by public VENDUE, at the City > Vendue Store, in Front street, all the JEWELLERY, and <> , > belonging to GEORGE DOWIG, Jeweller and Goldsmith; consisting of garnet > earrings, set in gold, chrystal ditto, set in ditto, cluster ditto, set in > silver, gold stone rings of all kinds, definitely luxury items made of silver, not table utensils gold locket buttons, plain gold ditto, gold lockets, best chrystal buttons, set in > silver, a variety of plate and buckles, likewise a silversmithflatting mill, > all his jewellery and silversmithtools, a Negroe man, by trade a > silversmith, Slavery was not abolished in Pennsylvania until 1780. It is worth noting where the slave in question is placed in the list. How much did this slave sell for? At least a hundred pounds, quite possibly two hundred. > > > September 23, 1772 > The Pennsylvania Gazette > > RICHARD HUMPHREYS, GOLDSMITH, HAVING taken the house in which PHILIP SYNG > lately dwelt, hereby informs his friends and the public, that he now > carries on the GOLDSMITH Business, in all its branches, at the aforesaid > place, a few doors below the Coffeehouse, where he has for sale, a NEAT and > GENERAL ASSORTMENT of GOLD and <> . again, definitely luxury items made of silver, not table utensils > > (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) > Saturday Evening Post (1821-1830), Philadelphia; Oct 20, 1827; Vol. VOL. > VI, Iss. 0 > EPITOME OF NEWS.; pg. 0_002, 1 pgs > ("...breaking into a dwelling house and stealing silver ware.") > probably not table utensils, or not just table utensils, as a burglar would make off with all the valuables he could find - Jim Landau From Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM Mon Apr 21 13:58:21 2003 From: Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM (LeMay, William) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:58:21 -0400 Subject: is, is Message-ID: This brings to mind a local (Northeastern Iowa) form of the "is is" that I hear quite often: "Is what you need to do is..." From JMB at STRADLEY.COM Mon Apr 21 15:02:30 2003 From: JMB at STRADLEY.COM (Baker, John) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:02:30 -0400 Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Message-ID: Here's an antedating of the OED, at least, for silverware in the sense of cutlery. This is from an 1851 will, quoted in full in a legal opinion: >>Know all men by these presents that I John Mitcheltree does hereby convey, sell and grant in trust to Samuel Scott Ewing in trust for my dearly and well beloved wife Jane Mitcheltree, all that house and lot or lots, now occupied by Dr. John Irwin, for her to have and hold for ever; also, one house and lot and small store house known as the Murdock property, and now occupied by him and family, and the store by Wheeler as a tin shop; also, one out lot about one and a one quarter acres of land, also her ten shares in the Mahoning County Bank; and thirty shares more on which there is now paid in on the same fifty per cent, together with whatever may be paid in at the time of my death; also, my best horse and buggy and harness, also all carpets, china and queensware, and silver ware, such as spoons, &c., &c., two beds with plenty of bedding, four tables and two setties and two bureaus, together with a house and lot now owned by a saddler, formerly owned by Armstrong Irwin, for her the said Jane, my well beloved wife, to have and to hold for ever. Given under my hand and seal this 2d July 1851.<< Clingan v. Mitcheltree, 31 Pa. 25, 7 Casey 25 (Pa. 1856). John Baker -----Original Message----- From: Bapopik at AOL.COM [mailto:Bapopik at AOL.COM] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 11:06 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Silverware (1761, 1770, 1772) Again, OED has 1860 and Merriam-Webster 1848 for "silverware." I don't think these are the "silverware" we all know and love (forks, spoons, knives), but take a look. From funex79 at CHARTER.NET Mon Apr 21 16:26:46 2003 From: funex79 at CHARTER.NET (Jerome Foster) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:26:46 -0700 Subject: The West Message-ID: Listmembers: I am trying to find out when the earliest use of "The West" to differentiate Europe and America from "The East" or the "Orient." Any help would be greatly appreciated Jerome Foster Los Osos, CA From ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM Mon Apr 21 23:44:13 2003 From: ADS-L at HIGHLANDS.COM (Barnhart) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:44:13 -0400 Subject: The West Message-ID: The standard place to start on this is OED. First quote appears to be c1205. David Barnhart barnhart at highlands.com From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 00:56:53 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:56:53 -0400 Subject: Balloon Bread (1962); Beef Club (1916) Message-ID: BALLOON BREAD DARE has "balloon bread" from 1965. PROSECUTION IS DUE ON 'BALLOON BREAD'; Special to The New York Times.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 12, 1962; pg. 19, 1 pgs ("The loaves are a pound in weight but are baked in standard one-and-a-half pound pans.") --------------------------------------------------------------- BEEF CLUB DARE has "beef club" from 1941. CHATS WITH VISITORS IN WASHINGTON; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 11, 1918; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Boys in Texas are forming baby beef clubs, and the future generation will, if the work keeps up, be better informed on profitable methods of cattle growing than were their fathers.") Million Boys and Girls in Farm Clubs; War's Impetus to the Movement Is Expected to Result in Permanent Benefit to Agriculture and Betterment of Rural Life; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 30, 1917; pg. SM6, 1 pgs ("Our great national crop needs stimulation, and organized club work provides this. Pig clubs, baby beef clubs, dairy calf clubs, corn, milo maize, cotton, peanut, wheat, raotation, potato, poultry clubs, canning, sewing, bread-making clubs...") Illinois Central; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1916; pg. 3, 1 pgs ("The company also distributed 69 prize bulls to boys' and girls' beef clubs.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 01:55:20 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:55:20 -0400 Subject: Box Party (1877); Box Social (1891); Box Supper (1899) Message-ID: BOX PARTY DARE has 1939 for "box party." 18 February 1877, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: "I am one of a box party," is the latest dead head dodge. When the number of the box is required by the door man the D. H. slopes. GOSSIP ABOUT; PERSONAL ITEMS INTERESTING TO EVERY READER OF "THE POST." The Marriages of the Past Week and the Near Future -- Parties, Sociables, Receptions and Other Social Features Narrated In Entertaining; The Washington Post (1877, Washington, D.C.; Dec 7, 1884; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("Last night the Senator gave a box party at Albaugh's Opera house...") Other Society Gossip.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1883; pg. 2, 1 pgs NATIONAL CAPITAL TOPICS; A SENSATIONAL SERMON ON THANKSGIVING DAY.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 1, 1882; pg. 2, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- BOX SOCIAL DARE has 1928 for "box social." I couldn't find it in the 1890 hit here. The BROOKLYN EAGLE gives you a little arrow, but not ProQuest. 24 June 1891, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Greenpoint division No. 99, sons of temperance, had a box social Monday evening in the Kerosmos building, Manhattan avenue and Milton street. LAUREL.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 16, 1893; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("A box social will be given at Fleater's Hall...") Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 19, 1890; pg. 7, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- BOX SUPPER DARE has 1934 for "box supper." TOPICS OF THE TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 31, 1899; pg. 20, 1 pgs ("One of the young ladies who attended the box supper at the Woodmen Hall acted very unladylike in refusing to eat with the young gentleman who purchased her box, by leaving the room just after her box was sold.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 02:09:01 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:09:01 -0400 Subject: Ice Cream Party(1842); Ice Cream Festival(1858); Ice Cream Supper(1868) Message-ID: ICE CREAM PARTY DARE has 1904 for "ice cream party." 3 January 1842, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 4 ad: ICE CREAM--Parties, Fairs and Families supplied with Ice Cream in any quantity, by giving notice the day previous, at HANDLEY'S Ice Cream Saloon, 14 High st. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM FESTIVAL DARE has 1893 for "ice cream festival." 15 June 1858, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 5: The Ladies of the First Place Methodist Episcopal Church will give a Strawberry and Ice Cream Festival... --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM SUPPER DARE has 1892 for "ice cream supper." Seventy-five Persons Poisoned at a Church Supper.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 28, 1868; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("The ice cream supper in coonection with the concept given by the ladies of the Episcopal church, at the Institute, resulted rather seriously to a mjaority of those present." The BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, on July 31, carried the same item from Somerville, Tenn., here dated July 23--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 02:33:49 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:33:49 -0400 Subject: Popcorn Popper (1902); Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: POPCORN POPPER "Popcorn popper" is not in OED. I don't have Andrew Smith's "popcorn" book handy with me here at NYU reference, but here's the earliest on Proquest. Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 27, 1912; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 26 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 12, 1902; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("Nelson's 10c Articles...Popcorn Poppers.") --------------------------------------------------------------- POPOVER PAN Not in OED, but what is? SWEET POTATO SALAD.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 14, 1919; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 66 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 5, 1918; pg. 24, 1 pgs THE WOMEN OF ARMENIA; The Wives, Mothers, and Daughters of an Afflicted Nation.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 18, 1895; pg. 21, 1 pgs ("Another dessert suggestion is to bake cottage pudding in gem or popover pans, thus giving to each person an individual pudding." This untitled article is on the same page, following the "Women of Armenia" story. The "popover pan" is not from Armenia--ed.) From jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET Tue Apr 22 02:41:04 2003 From: jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET (Jim McKee) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:41:04 -0500 Subject: Doohickey, etc. Message-ID: Hi everyone - growing up in the 50's in NE Central Mississippi, I heard "doohickey" used often to equate roughly to "gizmo" and to refer to unknown devices, e.g. "What do you call that little doohickey on the top of the pressure cooker?" (Incidentally, "petcock" sounds even sillier than "doohickey" to me!). I also heard "doomaflotchy" used either as "doohickey" was or to refer to an unknown person, e.g. "You know, Mrs. Doomaflotchy that works at the courthouse!" I think I heard "doohickey" nationally, probably on the radio. Does anyone know if these terms have an origin in some national language? Or, they could have become popular as "bromide" did from Burgess or one of the other widely popular humorists. Jim From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 03:20:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:20:25 -0400 Subject: Chinese Cleaver(1925, 1962); Kitchen Cleaver(1900); Pie Crimper(1889); Champagne glass(1844) Message-ID: CHINESE CLEAVER Not in OED. Chinatown!; A shopper's guide, Tiger Balm and all; By Marion Clark; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jul 16, 1972; pg. PO16, 4 pgs Beginner's List Of Kitchen Tools; Beginner's List Of Kitchen Tools; By Joe and Jeanne Anderson; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Jun 8, 1972; pg. K1, 2 pgs The Choy Doh': That Frightening Chinese Cleaver; By Joe and Jeanne Anderson; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 18, 1972; pg. D3, 1 pgs A Chinese Dinner Isn't as Difficult as You Think; Egg Drop Soup; By Bill Ives; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Feb 12, 1970; pg. C13, 1 pgs Craving Some Carp or Cloud Ears?; By Nancy L. Ross Washington Post Staff Writer; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Dec 28, 1968; pg. C3, 1 pgs The Kitchen Bookshelf; The Kitchen Bookshelf; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 2, 1962; pg. 490, 2 pgs New Cookbook Covers Chopsticks to Chop Suey; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 27, 1962; pg. 57, 1 pgs ("'The Pleasures of Chinese Cooking' is an admirably diverse volume, dealing with such topics as how to use a Chinese cleaver, how to order in a Chinese restaurant and how to grow bean sprouts in the home kitchen.") FEDERAL DRIVE ON TO END WAR OF TONGS; Forty-two of 68 Chinese Seized Here in All-Night Round-Up Face Deportation.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 13, 1925; pg. 29, 1 pgs ("...a rifle and several Chinese cleavers occasionally used by tong criminals.") --------------------------------------------------------------- KITCHEN CLEAVER The "meat cleaver" is sometimes called a "kitchen cleaver." There is no OED entry. Display Ad 38 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 3, 1907; pg. X8, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 28, 1907; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 22, 1904; pg. 3, 1 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1900; pg. 16, 1 pgs ("Kitchen Cleavers...42c" in an ad for O'Neill's.) --------------------------------------------------------------- PIE CRIMPER Not in OED, of course. "Pie crimper" was one of many items in the "kitchen cleaver" ad above. There are about 165 Google hits. Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1900; pg. 16, 1 pgs Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 9, 1900; pg. 11, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 6, 1891; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 9, 1889; pg. 8, 1 pgs Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1889; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("In our Racket Department you can also buy for 9 cents good Whisk Brooms, Steak Pounders, Bone Egg Spoons, Pie Crimpers,..." at Frankle & Co.) --------------------------------------------------------------- CHAMPAGNE GLASS OED has 1851 for "champagne glass." This below is "a glass filled with champagne." I'm still looking for "champagne tulip glass" or "champagne flute glass." 22 February 1844, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: On this occasion the account of her death was read from the French newspapers, in the midst of lively exultation, and the clang of champagne glasses. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 03:52:41 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:52:41 -0400 Subject: Amish Preaching Soup (1950) Message-ID: DARE has 1965 for "Amish bean soup," or "Amish preaching soup." It's one of the more peculiar of American food names. On the Tour; By Paul Herron; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 22, 1952; pg. 31, 1 pgs Other 7 -- No Title; By Paul Herron; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 24, 1951; pg. B8, 1 pgs ("How do you make Shrimp Wiggle Esche Puddle? What makes popovers pop? Why do they call it Amish Preaching Soup? Questions like these have been tossed about by guests at Marjorie Hendricks' Water Gate Inn so often that she has finally prepared a cookbook describing the intricacies of the Inn's Pennsylvania Dutch Cooking. Author Flora Orr explains the mysterious titles and lists the ingredients.") (WORDLCAT database) Libraries with Item: "Hobby horse cookery : / f..." NY NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR NYP CO UNIV OF DENVER, PENROSE LIBR DVP DC HISTORICAL SOC OF WASHINGTON, DC HSWDI LA LOUISIANA STATE UNIV LUU NE UNIV OF NEBRASKA AT LINCOLN LDL Title: Hobby horse cookery : favorite recipes of Marjory Hendricks' Water Gate Inn, Washington, D.C. / Author(s): Orr, Flora G. ; Hendricks, Marjory. Corp Author(s): Water Gate Inn. Publication: [Washington, D.C. : s.n.], Year: 1950 Description: 1 v. (unpaged) : ill. ; 22 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery, American. Named Corp: Water Gate Inn. Note(s): Cover-title. Class Descriptors: LC: TX715 Responsibility: compiled by Flora G. Orr. Document Type: Book Entry: 19820923 Update: 19950309 Accession No: OCLC: 8800731 Database: WorldCat Title: New hobby horse cookery : favorite recipes of Water Gate Inn, Washington, D.C Author: Orr, Flora Gracia TN VANDERBILT UNIV MED CTR TJM Libraries worldwide that own item: 1 Title: New hobby horse cookery : favorite recipes of Water Gate Inn, Washington, D.C. / Author(s): Orr, Flora Gracia. Publication: Washington, D.C. : F. Orr, Year: 1953 Description: 48 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Cookery, American -- Pennsylvania. Menus. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descriptors: Dewey: 641.59748 Responsibility: [Flora G. Orr]. Document Type: Book Entry: 19810119 Update: 19950219 Accession No: OCLC: 7069004 Database: WorldCat From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 04:47:13 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:47:13 -0400 Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) Message-ID: SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES; Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 19, 1917; pg. 8, 1 pgs: _SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES._ _Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old._ Sratoga Springs, N. Y., May 18.--Catherine A. Wieks, colored, the oldest woman in Saratoga County, died today. She would have been 103 years old next December. She was the inventor of Saratoga potato chips and was a sister of the late George Crum, who was famous 50 years ago as a roadhouse proprietor at Saratoga Lake. --------------------------------------------------------------- Once again, having an additional online source comes through. The NEW YORK TIMES didn't mention her. Mary O'Donnell, of Saratoga, has kindly photocopied some information on "Saratoga chips." Three people are given credit. One is "Aunt Katie" Weeks, or is it Wieks? Another is Cary B. Moon, the proprietor of Moon's Lakehouse, a famous nineteenth century restaurant at Saratoga Lake. Another is George Crum, the chef. This book has a nice discussion: CHRONICLES OF SARATOGA by Evelyn Barret Britten Saratoga: published privately by author 1959 Pg. 176: Crum was a native of Malta, the son of Abraham Speck, a jockey, who had come from Kentucky in the early days of Saratoga Springs and married an Indian girl. The inventor of potato chips was christened Crum by none other than the original Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, founder of the Vanderbilt fortunes in America, who, visiting Moon's with a party of guests, had had to wait a long time to be served, and finally had requested an attendant to ask "Crum," "How long before we shall eat?" It was the commodore's confusion of ideas--"Crumb" and "speck"--that gave the famed Indian guide the name he carried through the rest of his life. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 06:18:35 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:18:35 -0400 Subject: Pastry Tips(1970); Pickle Castor(1854); Pizza Wheel(1971); Pastry Wheel(1907); Ice Cream Scoop(1885,1892) Message-ID: More cookery. NYU's trial subscription to the WASHINGTON POST expires May 4th, so I have to do this now or it'll cost a trip to the Library of Congress. --------------------------------------------------------------- PASTRY TIPS Not in OED. Illustrated in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. Display Ad 15 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 24, 1975; pg. A7, 1 pgs Display Ad 646 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 20, 1974; pg. 506, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Oct 17, 1972; pg. A5, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 12, 1972; pg. A6, 1 pgs Display Ad 323 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 28, 1971; pg. 193, 1 pgs Display Ad 62 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 7, 1970; pg. C5, 1 pgs ("Pastry bags, 45c to $1...Pastry tips, 25c to 60c.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PICKLE CASTOR Not in OED? There's a ton of ProQuest hits, and I'll check the American Periodical Series soon. Classified Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 15, 1873; pg. 6, 1 pgs Classified Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 13, 1873; pg. 2, 1 pgs Classified Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Sep 26, 1854; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("...large assortment of silver plate ware, castors, liquors, frames, pickle castors, salts, cake baskets, coasters, tea sets, waiters, &c. ...") --------------------------------------------------------------- PIZZA WHEEL "Pizza wheel" is another name for "pizza cutter," previously posted. Neither is in OED. Display Ad 67 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 24, 1972; pg. D12, 1 pgs Display Ad 47 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Feb 14, 1972; pg. D9, 1 pgs A Greek Festival; SPANAKOPITA; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 16, 1971; pg. D3, 1 pgs ("Use a fluted pastry wheel or knife, scissors or pizza wheel and cut dough into strips 4 by 6 inches.") --------------------------------------------------------------- PASTRY WHEEL Not in OED. News of Food; An International Flavor May Be Given To Christmas Breakfast With Pastries ; By JANE HOLT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 19, 1944; pg. 24, 1 pgs ANTIQUE SHOWS AND AUCTIONS; By WALTER RENDELL STOREY; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 30, 1943; pg. X14, 1 pgs Winning Version Rivals Antoine's Famed Dish; Second Award Goes to Another District Woman for Oysters Baked With Dumplings; Others Suggest Them in Cream or Planked; By Martha Ellyn, The Post Food Editor.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 29, 1939; pg. 20, 1 pgs DAILY COOK BOOK; Banbury Buns.; By JANE EDDINGTON.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 2, 1923; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 26 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 17, 1907; pg. X8, 1 pgs ("Pastry Wheels 8c...Potato Ball Scoops 15c to 43c" at Abraham & Straus.) --------------------------------------------------------------- POTATO BALL SCOOP Not in OED, although it does have "potato balls." Display Ad 17 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 23, 1904; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 2 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 18, 1903; pg. 3, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1902; pg. 17, 1 pgs ("French Potato Ball Scoops...15c" in a large ad for Abraham & Straus.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE CREAM SCOOP I had posted "ice cream scooper" before. "Ice cream scoop" is not in the OED. Just dreadful on food. Display Ad 15 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 19, 1904; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Wash basins, sink strainers, ice cream scoops, saucepans, pudding pans, ice cream spoons, muffin pans, egg poachers, flour sifters, tea canisters,..." are all sold for 9 cents each at the Pais Royal on G Street.) HER POINT OF VIEW.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 31, 1892; pg. 13, 1 pgs ("An inexpensive utensil is the new ice cream scoop. It costs but 40 cents, and is worth several times the price to the woman deputized to ladle out the ice cream at a fair or fete. These scoops out the cream out in perfect forms, giving Tom the same amount as Dick or Harry. Anyboy who has tried to preserve even a degree of impartiality in her haste behind the scenes at a church fair, for example, will recognize the value of this invention.") CITY AND SUBURBAN NEWS; NEW-YORK.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1885; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("...a silver ice cream scoop, marked 'Robbins;'" is in a list of items stolen.) --------------------------------------------------------------- ICE SCOOP Not in OED. I guess the OED people never stayed at a hotel and got ice? Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 19, 1905; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 17 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 17, 1905; pg. 11, 1 pgs Display Ad 21 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 2, 1905; pg. 10, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 25, 1904; pg. 2, 1 pgs ("Ice Picks, Ice Shavers, Ice Tongs, Ice Hatchets, Ice Scoops, Ice Shovels, Ice Cream Saucers, Ice Cream Spoons, Candy Jars, &c." are sold at Dulin & Martin Co. on G Street.) --------------------------------------------------------------- SHRIMP DEVEINER Not in OED. As you can probably tell from one of these cites, Williams-Sonoma sells it. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 19, 1995; pg. A8, 1 pgs Two Williams-Sonoma Stores to Open; By ELAINE LOUIE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 17, 1987; pg. C5, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 30, 1986; pg. B10, 1 pgs Classified Ad 1 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Oct 26, 1986; pg. C6, 1 pgs Classified Ad 139 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 11, 1962; pg. 200, 1 pgs Classified Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 12, 1961; pg. F27, 1 pgs Classified Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 18, 1958; pg. F22, 1 pgs Food News: Shrimp a Good Buy Now; New York Is Largest Market for Shellfish -- Vein Harmless ; By JANE NICKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 6, 1954; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("The deveining is done by cutting along the outside curvature and lifting out the black sand vein which, although harmless, is unattractive to many. Some find a gadget called a shrimp deveiner helpful in doing this chore.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 22 06:41:21 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:41:21 -0400 Subject: Pastry Jagger(1902) & Pie Jagger(1948) Message-ID: "Brown Sugar." --Mick Jagger, when asked about his cooking ingredients. OED has three definitions for "jagger," but not one fits the cooking usage. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS cites "jagging wheel" and "pie jagger." I noticed "pastry jagger" in a large Abraham and Straus ad in 1902, and it'll be my last post before doing parking tickets. (PIE JAGGER) Where to Find Small Washers; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 4, 1948; pg. B7, 1 pgs ("Use a pie jagger or a cookie cutter.") (JAGGING WHEELS) WHALING RELICS SOUGHT; Hobbyists Gathering Things Associated With Yankee Hunts for Moby Dick; By WALDON FAWCETT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 5, 1937; pg. 134, 1 pgs ("A private collector's loot of jagging wheels or pie-crimpers,...") (PASTRY JAGGERS) Display Ad 16 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 26, 1902; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 16, 1902; pg. 17, 1 pgs ("Pastry Jaggers...10c" at Abraham and Straus.) From jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET Tue Apr 22 14:55:48 2003 From: jiminstarkville at WEBTV.NET (Jim McKee) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:55:48 -0500 Subject: Should spell it "do-hickey"? Message-ID: I mentioned to a friend that I had posted here about "doohickey", and she suddenly remembered her mother, back in the 50's, referring to certain unmentionables as "do-which-ies". I had speculated to my friend that I was reminded also of a practice that came along about 30 years ago of exclaiming "Do what?!" when "What did you say?" was really meant, the exclamation being made in an exaggerated, comical way to convey astonishment. I heard "Do what?!" on TV a lot back then. It's also interesting that both by age-group and perhaps even general speech custom, we seem to have very few "unmentionables" left. From self at TOWSE.COM Tue Apr 22 16:17:30 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:17:30 -0700 Subject: Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > --------------------------------------------------------------- > POPOVER PAN > > Not in OED, but what is? > > SWEET POTATO SALAD.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; > Oct 14, 1919; pg. 10, 1 pgs > > Display Ad 66 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; > May 5, 1918; pg. 24, 1 pgs > > THE WOMEN OF ARMENIA; The Wives, Mothers, and Daughters of an Afflicted Nation.; > New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 18, 1895; pg. 21, 1 pgs > ("Another dessert suggestion is to bake cottage pudding in gem or popover pans, > thus giving to each person an individual pudding." This untitled article is on the > same page, following the "Women of Armenia" story. The "popover pan" is not from > Armenia--ed.) Is "gem pan"? Is "cupcake pan"? frying pan, cake pan, pie pan, peter pan ... At what point, maybe Jesse or someone else can help me with this, does something like "popover pan" make the OED? When is "gem pan" simply a pan for making gems and when does "gem pan" become something that qualifies for a separate dictionary entry? Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Wed Apr 23 00:01:19 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:01:19 -0400 Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) Message-ID: According to http://www.brooksidemuseum.org/photo/2002/september2002.html it's Wicks. And the origin of the chip is rather in dispute. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 12:47 AM Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) > SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES; Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 19, 1917; pg. 8, 1 pgs: > > _SARATOGA CHIP INVENTOR DIES._ > _Colored Woman Reputed to Have Been 103 Years Old._ > Sratoga Springs, N. Y., May 18.--Catherine A. Wieks, colored, the oldest woman in Saratoga County, died today. She would have been 103 years old next December. She was the inventor of Saratoga potato chips and was a sister of the late George Crum, who was famous 50 years ago as a roadhouse proprietor at Saratoga Lake. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Once again, having an additional online source comes through. The NEW YORK TIMES didn't mention her. > Mary O'Donnell, of Saratoga, has kindly photocopied some information on "Saratoga chips." > Three people are given credit. One is "Aunt Katie" Weeks, or is it Wieks? Another is Cary B. Moon, the proprietor of Moon's Lakehouse, a famous nineteenth century restaurant at Saratoga Lake. Another is George Crum, the chef. This book has a nice discussion: > > CHRONICLES OF SARATOGA > by Evelyn Barret Britten > Saratoga: published privately by author > 1959 > > Pg. 176: Crum was a native of Malta, the son of Abraham Speck, a jockey, who had come from Kentucky in the early days of Saratoga Springs and married an Indian girl. The inventor of potato chips was christened Crum by none other than the original Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, founder of the Vanderbilt fortunes in America, who, visiting Moon's with a party of guests, had had to wait a long time to be served, and finally had requested an attendant to ask "Crum," "How long before we shall eat?" > It was the commodore's confusion of ideas--"Crumb" and "speck"--that gave the famed Indian guide the name he carried through the rest of his life. > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 01:44:22 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:44:22 EDT Subject: Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: A "butter knife" is a great deal different that a "steak knife." A "champagne glass" is not a "shotglass" or a "pilsner glass." Here are entries in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS for the items mentioned: _cake pan_ Variously shaped and sized containers for baking cake batter. _cupcake pan_ (NO ENTRY--ed.) _frying pan_ A round pan with a single long handle and low, sloping sides and used to pan-fry foods; available with a nonstick surface and in 8-, 10- and 12-in. diameters; also known as a skillet. (ILLUSTRATION) ("Frying pan" is in OED and is very, very old--ed.) _gem pan_ A pan designed to make miniature muffins. _peter pan_ (VERY FUNNY--ed.) _pie pan; pie plate_ A round, 1- to 2-in.-deep glass or metal pan with sloped sides used for baking pies. _popover pan_ A heavy baking pan used for making popovers and Yorkshire pudding; similar to a muffin pan but with deeper, tapered indentions that are spaced farther apart. (ILLUSTRATION) There are several things I'd think about for an OED entry: 1. IS IT ALREADY IN AN EXISTING DICTIONARY?--I'm using food dictionaries. 2. ARE THERE PLENTY OF CITATIONS FOR IT?--I'm giving the earliest citations for these, but there are many, many more. 3. IS IT DISTINCTIVE?--A champagne glass is distinctive. A steak knife is distinctive. A cake pan is--well, what kind of cake are we talking about? But I might want to enter it anyway because there are a gazillion hits. 4. WHAT TYPE OF ENTRY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?--"Cake pan" would be under "cake." A citation or two would be used, and that's it. OED has always done entries like this, although all of it is badly dated, as I've shown. 5. WILL ANYONE CANCEL A SUBSCRIPTION IF WE, GOD FORBID, INCLUDE "PLETT PAN"?--No. From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 23 02:54:34 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:54:34 -0400 Subject: Saratoga Chip Inventor Dies (1917) In-Reply-To: <000701c3092b$7a238de0$c9a35d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: At 8:01 PM -0400 4/22/03, Sam Clements wrote: >According to http://www.brooksidemuseum.org/photo/2002/september2002.html >it's Wicks. And the origin of the chip is rather in dispute. Very nice. I like the way the museum site both carefully provides the legends, with all the details, while also debunking them. I notice the Saratoga County Historical Society/Brookside Museum is in Ballston Spa, just down the block from the wonderful Bottle Museum, which has excellent exemplars of bottles from different stages of the evolution of human culture. For anyone who feels about bottles the way we feel about words, it's gets a Michelin-green-guide three stars ("vaut le voyage"). Larry From mworden at WIZZARDS.NET Wed Apr 23 16:11:03 2003 From: mworden at WIZZARDS.NET (mark worden) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:11:03 -0700 Subject: terrorsymp Message-ID: "Terrorsymp" has surfaced http://www.stanleymeisler.com/news-commentary/rhetoricandwar.html expect terrsymp soon From self at TOWSE.COM Wed Apr 23 17:00:27 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:00:27 -0700 Subject: Popover Pan (1895) Message-ID: Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > > A "butter knife" is a great deal different that a "steak knife." > A "champagne glass" is not a "shotglass" or a "pilsner glass." > Here are entries in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS for > the items mentioned: > > _cake pan_ Variously shaped and sized containers for baking cake batter. > > _cupcake pan_ (NO ENTRY--ed.) > > _frying pan_ A round pan with a single long handle and low, sloping sides > and used to pan-fry foods; available with a nonstick surface and in 8-, 10- > and 12-in. diameters; also known as a skillet. (ILLUSTRATION) > ("Frying pan" is in OED and is very, very old--ed.) > > _gem pan_ A pan designed to make miniature muffins. > > _peter pan_ (VERY FUNNY--ed.) > > _pie pan; pie plate_ A round, 1- to 2-in.-deep glass or metal pan with > sloped sides used for baking pies. > > _popover pan_ A heavy baking pan used for making popovers and Yorkshire > pudding; similar to a muffin pan but with deeper, tapered indentions that are > spaced farther apart. (ILLUSTRATION) > > There are several things I'd think about for an OED entry: > > 1. IS IT ALREADY IN AN EXISTING DICTIONARY?--I'm using food dictionaries. > > 2. ARE THERE PLENTY OF CITATIONS FOR IT?--I'm giving the earliest citations > for these, but there are many, many more. > > 3. IS IT DISTINCTIVE?--A champagne glass is distinctive. A steak knife is > distinctive. A cake pan is--well, what kind of cake are we talking about? > But I might want to enter it anyway because there are a gazillion hits. > > 4. WHAT TYPE OF ENTRY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?--"Cake pan" would be under > "cake." A citation or two would be used, and that's it. OED has always done > entries like this, although all of it is badly dated, as I've shown. > Other types of pans: bundt pan, angel food cake pan, springform pan, tube pan, jelly roll pan, muffin pan, mini muffin pan, pizza pan, angelette pan, baguette pan, bread pan, loaf pan, checkerboard cake pan (really! I have one), cheesecake pan, cornbread pan, doughnut pan, tart pan, pudding pan, pullman pan, shortcake pan, yorkshire pudding pan, panetonne pan, madeleine pan, roast pan, savarin pan, broil pan ... ... and if you had a sister like mine, you'd know there are bunny cake pans and ball cake pans and even ninja turtle cake pans. > 5. WILL ANYONE CANCEL A SUBSCRIPTION IF WE, GOD FORBID, INCLUDE "PLETT > PAN"?--No. If you include anything at all, a plett pan entry is a must. Don't forget aebleskiver pan. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 19:45:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:45:30 -0400 Subject: Holy Guacamole (1985) Message-ID: "Holy guacamole!" a respondent said to me yesterday, after learning how much he owed in parking tickets. "Holy guacamole" hasn't been in AMERICAN SPEECH (?), it's not in the RHHDAS, and it's not in the CASSELL DICTIONARY OF SLANG. A lot of holy stuff is in these--holy cow, holy cats, holy Moses, holy horseshit. Why can't guacamole be so blessed? This site seems to indicate that it started in Gotham City: http://www.tvacres.com/catch_h.htm "Holy Guacamole, Batman!" - One of the silly exclamations spoken by the Boy Wonder (Burt Ward), a Gotham City crimefighter on the fantasy adventure BATMAN/ABC/1966-68. The following is a list of a few more of his silly syllables: Holy Armadillos!, Holy Chutzpah!, Holy Contributing to the Delinquency of Minors!, Holy Dental Hygiene!, Holy Fate Worse Than Death!, Holy Guadalcanal!, Holy Hieroglyphics!, Holy Hole-In-A-Doughnut!, Holy Human Surfboards!, Holy Hydraulics!, Holy Hypnotism!, Holy Interplanetary Yardstick!, Holy Kilowatts!, Holy Luther Burbank!, Holy Mashed Potatoes!, Holy Molars!, Holy Priceless Collection of Etruscan Snoods!, Holy Purple Cannibals!, Holy Ravioli!, Holy Rising Hemlines!, Holy Trolls and Goblins!, and Holy Uncanny Photographic Mental Processes! Holy Moley!, aren't you glad that's over? While at that site, check out: http://www.tvacres.com/languages_phrases.htm The full text NEW YORK TIMES, WASHINGTON POST, and WALL STREET JOURNAL turned up zero hits. (Strange, because the regular Proquest has a 1988 hit. Maybe it has the WSJ up to 1985?) WorldCat also has zero hits, so it wasn't the title of anything. The databases below have "Holy Guacamole" from the 1980s. Do I not have 1960s and 1970s hits simply because my databases are so poor for that period? Will the online LOS ANGELES TIMES have a 1960s "Holy Guacamole"? Stay tuned! Same time! Same channel! (DOW JONES newspapers database) SPORTS BOATING ROGER LIVINGSTON IS CHALLENGING SAILING'S BIG LEAGUES NEIL RABINOWITZ 01/03/1985 The Seattle Times FOURTH F5 (...) Three years ago Roger Livingston bought his own advertising firm from Chiat Day, calling it Livingston and Co. He approaches his sailing with the same hungry aggressiveness as one sees in the advertising world. Shortly after his escapade in Port Madison Bay he read an article on a 30-foot speedster, an Olson 30, bought one and named it Holy Guacamole. His very first race was the Olson 30 National Championships. LIFESTYLE / FOOD WHAT'S COOKING HOLY GUACAMOLE ELAINE BENDER 04/24/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey b01 The California Avocado Commission reports a bumper crop of the green pear-shaped fruit for the third year in a row, with a retail sales projection of $440 million. Extensive acreage expansion in the mid-1970's is responsible for the hefty harvest. OPINION LETTERS HOLY GUACAMOLE! 10/01/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey a18 Editor, The Record: Your excellent coverage of the devastating Mexico City earthquake was complete except in one respect: You didn't get an explanation from the Rev. Jerry Falwell on why it occurred. One of your recent editorials mentioned that Rev. Jerry Falwell suggested that AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) might be God's just punishment upon homosexuals for their sinful ways (hemophiliacs, Haitians, and second-graders weren't covered in his elucidation of divine wrath). The Mexico City disaster gives Jerry another chance to deliver a jeremiad. Why not follow it up? I'm betting he'll blame things on (1) the native habits of tanking up on too much tequila and (2) overindulging use of the pagan Aztec-descended expletive "Holy guacamole!" JACK SHAFER Ho-Ho-Kus FOOD Holy guacamole! // Alas, it seems California wasn't birthplace of avocado salad Elaine Corn:McClatchy News Service 04/29/1987 The Orange County Register EVENING 22 It began innocently enough. I wanted to discover the origin of guacamole. I had heard that someone invented the avocado-based salad (sometimes called a dip) not in Mexico, not in Spain, not even in Texas -- but in California. The news came with a sense of glowing chauvinism. California, which has more than its share of noteworthy foods, was being named as the source of yet another delectable dish. It seemed logical. California has been the site of avocado growing since the first tree was planted in Azusa, just east of Los Angeles, in 1848. (PROQUEST database) search. 31. USA snapshots: Holy guacamole; Galifianakis, Nick; USA Today, McLean, Va.; Apr 16, 1993; pg. D1 32. Holy guacamole, Super Bowl prospects are dipping; Falls, Joe; The Detroit News and Detroit Free Press, Detroit, Mich.; Jan 3, 1993; pg. E3 33. TRB from Washington: Holy Guacamole!; Kinsley, Michael; The New Republic, Washington; Apr 1, 1991; Vol. 204, Iss. 13; pg. 6, 1 pgs 34. Holy Guacamole: Growers Battle Bandits, Fallacy of Fat; Kinnander, Kimberly; Orange County Business Journal, Newport Beach; Jan 22, 1990; Vol. 12, Iss. 35; 1; pg. 1 35. VIGILANTE BAT;The Serio-Comic Hero, Caped & On the Case; [FINAL Edition]; Henry Allen; The Washington Post (pre-1997 Fulltext), Washington, D.C.; Jun 18, 1989; pg. g.01 36. Holy guacamole!/You can go from grocery to garden to fruit salad; [2 STAR Edition]; WILLIAM D. ADAMS; Houston Chronicle (pre-1997 Fulltext), Houston, Tex.; Feb 18, 1989; pg. 2 37. Notebook: Holy Guacamole; Anonymous; The New Republic, Washington; Aug 1, 1988; Vol. 199, Iss. 5; pg. 14, 5 pgs 38. Small Business (A Special Report): Essay --- Life in the Hot-Sauce Lane: Our Man Strives To Be A Big Enchilada; By Ronald G. Shafer; Wall Street Journal, New York, N.Y.; Jun 10, 1988; Eastern edition; pg. 1 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 20:20:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:20:38 -0400 Subject: Hawaii Five-O (1985); Aloha Berry (1997); Triple Berry (1986) Message-ID: HAWAII FIVE-O This American dish doesn't pre-date the tv show, of course. It's with lobster, shrimp, pork, chicken, and beef as the big five ingredients, or whatever the restaurant chooses as its five. (DOW JONES newspapers database) LIFESTYLE / PREVIEWS DINING OUT AT ORIENTAL LUAU By Mark Howat, Restaurant Reviewer 02/22/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey 011 (...) The television series "Hawaii Five-0" evidently inspired every Polynesian restaurant to come up with a dish meant to capitalize on and to have the dramatic appeal of the TV show. And so we have (at $10.95) Hawaiian 4-0, a curious name for an entree that has five ingredients: slices of duck, roast pork, shrimp, chicken, and crab meat. Again, the pork and chicken in this menu dinner were tender and juicy. The duck was dry and overcooked, the shrimp and crab meat tough and overcooked. The Oriental vegetables that accompanied this dish were mostly onions, bamboo shoots, water chestnuts, and ordinary mushrooms, not the dried black Chinese mushrooms that are so flavorful and delicious (and expensive). The Hawaiian 2-0 ($11.50) offers an excellent filet mignon and, again, the tough, overcooked lobster pieces. Dining here seems to be a matter of luck. Some meats are carefully cooked and others are allowed to overcook. This is unfortunate in such otherwise happy surroundings. The restaurant draws a large crowd, even on week nights. Often there will be tables of young people, celebrating a birthday or otherwise enjoying themselves as a group. Dynasty has good Chinese choices for informed diner Jeremy Iggers; Staff Writer 01/17/1986 Star-Tribune Newspaper of the Twin Cities Mpls.-St. Paul METRO 01C (...) I suppose anyone who orders a dish called Hawaii Five-O ($11.95) deserves whatever he gets, but I couldn't resist the temptation to try a dish from the Polynesian menu. I expected pineapple and little paper umbrellas. What I got was a sautee of lobster, scallops, beef and pork with assorted vegetables in a brown gravy. If the lobster and scallops had been tastier, the dish might have been satisfying, but both were flavorless. LIFESTYLE / PREVIEWS AT NEW CHINA CHALET IN CLOSTER By Mark Howat, Record Restaurant Critic 01/25/1991 The Record, Northern New Jersey 020 (...) In a dish like Hawaii Five-O, at $14.95 the most expensive in the restaurant, you would think that you would easily know lobster from chicken, chicken from pork, pork from beef, and so on. But you won't. You will pass food back and forth asking: Is this pork or beef? Is this chicken or pork? You will be able to tell, of course, by the colors: Chicken is white, beef is brown. But the flavors that distinguish these meats is missing. Perhaps they are all cooked in the same sauce, so that they take on the same flavors. But whatever the reason, too much tastes the same. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ALOHA BERRY I saw "Aloha Berry" as a smoothie flavor at my local Cafe Metro (www.cafemetrony.com). This seems to rip off Baskin-Robbins: FEATURE/BASKIN-ROBBINS ADDS BR SMOOTHIE TO EXPANDING LINE OF POPULAR IN-STORE BEVERAGES 03/27/1997 Business Wire GLENDALE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE FEATURES)--March 27, 1997-- Baskin-Robbins Becomes Nation's Largest Seller of Smoothie (...) The BR Smoothie is available in six tropical flavor combinations: Tropical Tango, a refreshing blend of strawberries and bananas; Calypso Berry, an amazing combination of strawberries and blueberries; Bora Berry Bora, a tropical blend of pineapple and passion fruit with raspberries and blueberries; Aloha Berry Banana, a brilliant mixture of pineapple and passion fruit with strawberries, blueberries and bananas; Copa Banana, a smooth combination of orange and bananas; and Sunset Orange, an exhilarating ensemble of orange, raspberries and bananas. Additionally, customers have the option to custom order their own BR Smoothie by selecting one of four fruits: strawberries, bananas, blueberries or raspberries, mixed with their choice of pineapple-passion fruit, strawberry or orange, and blended altogether with non-fat vanilla frozen yogurt. The Baskin-Robbins beverage line also includes the ever-popular Cappuccino Blast, the first coffee beverage to combine ice cream or non-fat, frozen yogurt with cappuccino; Chocolate Blast, a cool blend of chocolate ice cream, rich chocolate syrup, milk and ice blended together; Paradise Blast, a cool refreshing combination of ice cream, strawberry or pina colada mix and ice blended together; and Frozen Tornado, mixing soft serve ice cream and a favorite topping (available only at stores that sell soft serve). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ TRIPLE BERRY "Triple Berry" is also a Cafe Metro smoothie flavor. There are over 40,000 Google hits for popular "triple berry," but the databases seem to have it only to 1986(?): (DOW JONES newspapers) TASTE Ann Burckhardt Most new products are palate pleasers Ann Burckhardt; Staff Writer 03/19/1986 Star-Tribune Newspaper of the Twin Cities Mpls.-St. Paul METRO 02T Before the pile of empty convenience food packages on my shelf topples over, I'll report reactions to their contents. Tofulicious is Minneapolis' answer to the popularity of tofu-based frozen desserts such as Tofutti. Last fall Eastern Foods Corp., 3235 E. Hennepin Av., introduced five flavors of this low-calorie alternative to ice cream. We tasted all five here in the newsroom. Triple Berry Delight and Dutch Chocolate Almond tied for best-liked - their containers emptied almost immediately. Vanilla Almond Supreme placed second and Pina Colada Royale, third. A little of the Creamy Peanut Butter was left after the feast, but it, too, had its partisans. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 23 22:33:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:33:09 -0400 Subject: Lemon Reamer (1906); Salt & Pepper Shaker (1889); Granny Fork; Spoon Rest; Margarita Glass Message-ID: Crate & Barrel on East 59th Street is only a few blocks away from my home, and just down the block from Williams-Sonoma. See www.crateandbarrel.com. Together with cooking.com and williams-sonoma.com and the DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS, I don't think I've missed much, but please point out any other cookery terms. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LEMON REAMER OED actually has this, from 1926. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 13, 1925; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jun 4, 1924; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 12 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 18, 1906; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("GLASS LEMON REAMERS, 4c and 8c" is sold at H. C. F. Koch in New yOrk City.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SALT AND PEPPER SHAKER OED has "pepper shaker" from the 1895 Montgomery Ward Catalogue. Display Ad 11 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 4, 1889; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("Bargains in Salt and Pepper Shakers" is in an ad for Frankle & Company.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GRANNY FORK Not in OED. Display Ad 19 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Feb 26, 1979; pg. A22, 1 pgs Display Ad 230 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 18, 1969; pg. G15, 1 pgs Display Ad 160 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 15, 1969; pg. F6, 1 pgs ("...granny forks..." is listed under Ekco Gadgets.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SPOON REST Not in OED. Display Ad 769 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1950; pg. 127, 1 pgs ("SPOON REST. Is such a pretty little ceramic dish. And it will kepp your table top and stove top clean. For it was made to hold your messy cooking spoon.") Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 8, 1913; pg. 4, 1 pgs Housewife's Daily Economy Calendar; Five Dollars' Worth of Convenience.; by FRANCES MARSHALL; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 3, 1913; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Spoon rest, of aluminum, they clamp on side of saucepan, in which spoon may be laid when not in use.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MARGARITA GLASS Not in revised OED. Display Ad 182 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 24, 1992; pg. LI3, 1 pgs 50 Things Every Fashionable Man; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 15, 1992; pg. SMA54, 1 pgs Display Ad 56 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 2, 1990; pg. C24, 1 pgs Hungry Hour; Bellying Up to the Food Instead of the Bar; By Mary Luders and Maria Mudd; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 21, 1986; pg. WK6, 2 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 26, 1985; pg. A5, 1 pgs ("Choose chip-n-dip bowl, salad bowl, or set of 4 margarita glasses" at Macy's.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FONDUE FORK Not in OED. Letting the Guests Cook Dinner; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 10, 1959; pg. SM56, 2 pgs Food News: Store Seeks To Aid Cook; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 24, 1959; pg. 24, 1 pgs Try 3eer or Cheese Fondue 1/2/ For Cozy but .Elegant Dish; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Oct 11, 1957; pg. C2, 1 pgs Food News: Bresse; From the French Region Now Come The Chickens in Tinned Quenelles ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 7, 1956; pg. 22, 1 pgs ("The other oddity was a three-tined fork for stirring fondue, that Swiss dish for which cheese is melted and 'diluted" with white wine and kirsch.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LOBSTER FORK Not in OED. Virtual Ban Put on Civilian Goods of Steel; WPB Order Forbids Use of Metal in Most Household Utensils; By Alfred Friendly Post Staff Writer; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 5, 1942; pg. 1, 2 pgs List of Products Barred From Use Of Iron and Steel by WPB Order; Wall Street Journal (1889-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 5, 1942; pg. 3, 1 pgs Attractive Implements Demanded by Lobster; Eight Old Silver Forks, Obviously Hand Made, With Pearl Handles, Are Displayed by Store Here; Brass Fireplace Fixtures Shown.; By Katherine Smith.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 18, 1934; pg. S8, 1 pgs ("In one little ship are eight old silver lobster forks, with pearl handles.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 02:31:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:31:45 -0400 Subject: Basket Dinner/Lunch (1854); Dinner-on-the-Ground (1858) Message-ID: BASKET LUNCH DARE has 1892 for "basket dinner/lunch." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS database) Author: Thompson, J. J. of Brookville, Mississippi. Title: A history of the feud between the Hill and Evans parties of Garrard County, Ky. The most exciting tragedy ever enacted on the bloody grounds of Kentucky. Publication date: [1854] Page 104 - 1 term matching "basket dinner*" ("When the boys in the field got their basket dinner, they very hospitably asked the Hills over to dine with them.") (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL) Kentucky: Berea College Commencement: pp. 275-276 p. 276 1 match of 'basket dinner*' in: Title: The American missionary. / Volume 32, Issue 9 Publisher: American Missionary Association. Publication Date: Sept 1878 City: New York Pages: 426 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABK5794-0032&byte=343464 ("Under the shade of these trees, during the intermission, two or three hundred groups spread and consumed their basket-dinners.") (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The National Police Gazette (1845-1906), New York; Sep 29, 1883; Vol. VOLUME XLII., Iss. 0 Article 1 -- No Title; pg. 2, 1 pgs (THEY are talking about putting bar room cars on certain Western railroads. Why not? The worst whiskey that could be sold on them wouldn't be half as deadly as the train boys' gum drops or the basket lunches the station restaurants fairly give away--for twice what they are worth.") Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Apr 16, 1881; Vol. Vol. 60., Iss. 0 SANCTUE CHAT; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("The new basket lunch system on the Boston and Albany Railroad grows in favor. Orders are taken by an agent on each train, and telegraphed forward to the station where the baskets are delivered. There are six bills of fare, and the uniform price is forty cents. One bill, for example, comprises two turkey sandwitches (sic), two slices of buttered bread, two boiled eggs, and some pickles. The baskets have heat compartments, and are furnished with plates, knives, forks, and napkins. Extras in the way of fruit, drink, etc., can be ordered at reasonable prices.") --------------------------------------------------------------- DINNER-ON-THE-GROUND DARE has 1909 and later for "dinner on the ground." There's a note to connect it with "basket dinner." Supposedly "dinner on the ground" involves church singing, but not in these examples. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Aug 1, 1908; Vol. VOL. LXXI., Iss. 0 Mountain View Gun Club.; Forest and Stream; J. J. FARRELL, Sec'y.; pg. 191, 2 pgs (Pg. 192: "Another feature that the laedies will have is that they will serve an old-fashioned dinner on the grounds to the shooters immediately after the programme is finished on the first day.") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Jun 8, 1901; Vol. VOL. LVI, Iss. 0 DRIVERS AND TWISTERS.; Forest and Stream; pg. 457, 1 pgs ("Lunch will be served on the grounds.") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Apr 28, 1900; Vol. VOL. LIV., Iss. 0 Article 11 -- No Title; Forest and Stream; pg. 340, 1 pgs "Even No. 7 on the programme called for a 'good dinner on the grounds,' but when the dinner hour arrived there was not even a cracker on the grounds for the hungry shooters. While some of the members of the club went home for their 'good dinner on the grounds,' the visitors were compelled to employ a young man to go to the city, two miles away, and get their dinners and bring them to the grounds, and in consequence of this the visiting shooters did not get anything to eat until 2 o'clock in the afternoon.") (LITERATURE ONLINE) Trollope, Anthony, 1815-1882 [Author Record] Phineas Finn (1869) 1571Kb Phineas Finn, the Irish Member. By Anthony Trollope. With Twenty Illustrations by J. E. Millais ... In Two Volumes 1569Kb Found 1 hit: VOL. II 788Kb CHAPTER LXIII. SHOWING HOW THE DUKE STOOD HIS GROUND. 27Kb Phineas did not come till late,---till seven, when the banquet was over. I think he was right in this, as the banqueting in tents loses in comfort almost more than it gains in romance. A small picnic may be very well, and the distance previously travelled may give to a dinner on the ground the seeming excuse of necessity. (MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL) Living age ... / Volume 100, Issue 1292: pp. 577-640 p. 599 1 match of 'dinner on the ground*' in: Title: The Living age ... / Volume 100, Issue 1292 Publisher: The Living age co. inc. etc. Publication Date: March 6, 1869 City: New York etc. Pages: 834 page images in vol. This entire journal issue: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABR0102-0100&byte=226186557 ("A small picnic may be very well, and the distance previously travelled may give to a dinner on the ground the seeming excuse of necessity.") (NEW YORK TIMES) Cricket Notes.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 15, 1873; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("On that date the members will hold their usual dinner on the ground, after which a short game will be played.") LETTERS FROM WATERING PLACES.; Central Moriches, L. I.--The Way to Get There--The Wreck of the Steamer Franklin--Fishing, &c.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 23, 1858; pg. 2, 1 pgs (MONK'S celebrated brass band discourses charming music in the morning at the Congress Spring, after dinner on the grounds comprising the great hollow-square or arboricultural garden of the United States, and in the evening in the ball-room of the hotel.") From rayrocky7 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Apr 24 02:49:01 2003 From: rayrocky7 at HOTMAIL.COM (Ray Villegas) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:49:01 -0700 Subject: German Words 1939-45 Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 03:59:03 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:59:03 -0400 Subject: Malungeons; In God We Trust (1800); (To Know) Beans (1839) Message-ID: MALUNGEONS Here are four articles in the American Periodical Series: Current Literature (1888-1912), New York; May 1891; Vol. VOL. VII., Iss. 0 1. GOSSIP OF AUTHORS AND WRITERS; pg. 16, 12 pgs. The Arena (1889-1909), Boston; May 1891, Iss. 0 2. THE MALUNGEON TREE AND ITS FOUR BRANCHES.; BY WILLIAM ALLEN DROMGOOLE.; pg. 745, 7 pgs The Arena (1889-1909), Boston; Mar 1891, Iss. 0 3. THE MALUNGEONS.; BY WILL ALLEN DROMGOOLE.; pg. 470, 11 pgs The Arena (1889-1909), Boston; Jan 1, 1890; Vol. III, Iss. 0 4. Other 1 -- No Title; --------------------------------------------------------------- IN GOD WE TRUST http://www.msnbc.com/news/903240.asp?0cv=KB20 The above is Newsweek's Gersh Kuntzman's article about Georgia adding "In God We Trust" to its state flag. I have one post in the old archives and one post in the new archives. I'd found the phrase as far back as 1748. The "Star-Spangled Banner" (1814) popularized the idea with its "In God Is Our Trust." Below is an 1800 "In God We Trust." (LITERATURE ONLINE database) Thompson, Benjamin, 1776?-1816 [Author Record] Dagobert (1800) 171Kb DAGOBERT, KING OF THE FRANKS. A Tragedy, IN FIVE ACTS. 170Kb Found 1 hit Main text 168Kb ACT IV. 43Kb Scene 43Kb ...land.---What a sight!--- [Stage direction] --- In God we trust.--- Now come.... (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES database) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Aug 12, 1865, Iss. 0 Article 15 -- No Title; pg. 8, 1 pgs ("TRUST.--A merchant of Portland displayed in either window of his store on Wednesday last, this motto, 'In God we trust--terms, Cash.'" --------------------------------------------------------------- (TO KNOW) BEANS DARE has 1876 for "beans, to know." (LITERATURE ONLINE) Kirkland, Caroline M. (Caroline Matilda), 1801-1864 [Author Record] A New Home--Who'll Follow? (1839) 578Kb A New Home--Who'll Follow? 572Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 562Kb CHAPTER XVI. 15Kb ...fever-agur as well as I know beans! It a'n't nothin' else!"... Conway, H. J., 1800-1860 [Author Record] Hiram Hireout; Or, Followed By Fortune (1868?) 102Kb HIRAM HIREOUT; OR, FOLLOWED BY FORTUNE. A Farce, in One Act. TO WHICH ARE ADDED A description of the Costume---Cast of the Characters---Entrances and Exits--- Relative Positions of the Performers on the Stage, and the whole of the Stage Business. AS PERFORMED AT THE PRINCIPAL ENGLISH AND AMERICAN THEATERS. 101Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 98Kb ACT I. 98Kb SCENE II. 17Kb ...marks it down, "Yankees don't know beans"---and this is the way... Conway, H. J., 1800-1860 [Author Record] Our Jemimy: Or, Connecticut Courtship (1856?) 137Kb OUR JEMIMY: OR, CONNECTICUT COURTSHIP. A FARCE, IN ONE ACT. WRITTEN EXPRESSLY FOR MRS. BARNEY WILLIAMS. TO WHICH ARE ADDED, A Description of the Costume---Cast of the Characters---Entrances and Exists--- Relative Positions of the Performers on the Stage, and the whole of the Stage Business. AS PERFORMED AT THE BROADWAY THEATRE, N. Y. 135Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 134Kb ACT I. 134Kb Scene I. 27Kb ...Powder, say our Jemimy don't know beans. [Standardized name] ... Delano, Alonzo, 1806-1874 [Author Record] A Live Woman In The Mines; Or, Pike County Ahead! (1857) 187Kb A LIVE WOMAN IN THE MINES; OR, PIKE COUNTY AHEAD! A Local Play in two Acts. BY "OLD BLOCK." TO WHICH ARE ADDED A description of the Costume---Cast of the Characters---Entrances and Exits--- Relative Positions of the Performers on the Stage, and the whole of the Stage Business. 185Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 181Kb ACT II. 74Kb SCENE II. 24Kb ...yard---are you sure that you know beans? [Standardized name] ... Trowbridge, J. T. (John Townsend), 1827-1916 [Author Record] Neighbor Jackwood (1857) 440Kb Neighbor Jackwood. A Domestic Drama, IN FIVE ACTS. Produced at the Boston Museum, under the direction of Mr. W. H. Smith, March 16th, 1857. Printed from the acting copy; the stage business, &c., correctly marked by J. H. Ring, Prompter. 438Kb Found 1 hit: Main text 431Kb ACT II. 102Kb SCENE II. 21Kb ...sharp, I allow. Guess I know beans, when the bag's ontied.... (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Knickerbocker or New York Monthly Magazine (1833-1862), New York; Jan 1844; Vol. 23, Iss. 1 The country; Anonymous; pg. 70, 4 pgs Pg. 70: If you cannot distinguish timothy from clover, and beets from carrots; if, agriculturally speaking, you don't (Pg. 61--ed.) "know beans;" he will annihilate you with his rural wisdom. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 07:10:02 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 03:10:02 -0400 Subject: Dish Cloth(1827); Dish Mop(1860); Dish Pan(1852); Dish Towel(1850) Message-ID: A lot of good dish. --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH CLOTH OED has 1828 for "dish cloth." Saturday Evening Post (1821-1830), Philadelphia; Dec 8, 1827; Vol. VOL. VI, Iss. 0 THE DISCARDED LOVER.; pg. 0_001, 1 pgs ("...she would pin the dish cloth to his tail, set tubs of dirty water in his way, and cause him to tumble into them,...") --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH MOP OED has "dish mop" from the 1897 SEARS CATALOGUE. (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Dall, Caroline Wells Healey, 1822-1912. Title: "Woman's right to labor," or, Low wages and hard work : in three lectures, delivered in Boston, November, 1859 / by Caroline H. Dall. Publication date: 1860. Page 141 - 2 terms matching "dish mop*" ("I looked through Boston in vain, the other day, to find a common dish-mop large enough to serve my purpose.") August, 1866 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol LXXII Page 145 The chancing had, of course, various results; but I may here mention that Mrs. Daffodil drew three hoods, two Afghans, a hearth-rug, a smoking-cap, a baby's cap, a canary bird, a << dish-mop>> , a coal-skuttle, a poodle dog, two white mice, a fernery, a globe of goldfish, three sets of mock jewelry, a Webster's dictionary, and the fire safe. --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH PAN OED has 1872 for "dish pan." 9 April 1852, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: 1 Dish pan. May, 1854 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XLVIII Page 478 2 Tin Bake-Pans.1 Fry Pan. 1 Tin Dripping Pan.1 Cullender. 1 Tin Saucepan. 1 Coffee Boiler. 1 Small Tin Kettle.1 Tea Pot. 1 Pepper and Flour Dredge.1 Grater. 3 Tin Pie Plates. 1 Tin Dipper. 1 Tin Wash-Basin.1 Egg-Whip. 1 << Dish Pan1>> Basting-Spoon. 3 Table and Tea-Spoons, Iron.1 Skimmer. 1 Chop-Knife and Bowl --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH TOWEL OED has 1869 for "dish towel." (MAKING OF AMERICA-MICHIGAN, BOOKS) Author: Beecher, Catharine E. (Catharine Esther), 1800-1878. Title: Miss Beecher's domestic receipt-book: designed as a supplement to her Treatise on domestic economy. Publication date: 1850. Page 248 - 1 term matching "dish towel*" ("Be careful to have clean dish towels, and never use them for other pruposes.") Page 251 - 1 term matching "dish towel*" March, 1852 Godey's Lady's Book Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Vol XLIV Page 204 Books, table linen, sweetmeat and pickle jars had been put in most unsystematized array on the same shelves; hunted articles "turned up" in the least expected places; pocket handkerchiefs and << dish towels>> , hastily thrust away, were discovered crammed into pillow cases; and wearing apparel emerged from wooden water pails. --------------------------------------------------------------- DISH WASHING MACHINE OED has "dish washing machine" in the 1890s. Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Oct 29, 1870; Vol. Vol. XXIII., Iss. 0 Improved Dish-Washing Machine.; pg. 271, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Dec 2, 1865; Vol. Vol. XIII., Iss. 0 Article 11 -- No Title; pg. 360, 4 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Mar 19, 1864; Vol. Vol. X., Iss. 0 Patent Dish-washing Machine.; pg. 192, 1 pgs Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Feb 9, 1850; Vol. VOLUME 5., Iss. 0 Article 7 -- No Title; pg. 164, 1 pgs ("Machinery for Washing Dishes.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 08:01:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 04:01:12 -0400 Subject: Stemware (1892); Champagne Glass (1837) Message-ID: STEMWARE Merriam-Webster has 1926 for "stemware." OED has 1929? (STEMWARE) Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 23, 1896; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 19, 1895; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 17 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 25, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 14 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 7, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 7, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs 1Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 16, 1892; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("Together with Special Bargains in SALAD, FRUIT & BERRY BOWLS, STEMWARE, DECANTERS, &c." at Arnheim's.) (STEM WARE) Display Ad 13 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 14, 1897; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 16 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 15, 1896; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 15 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 16, 1894; pg. 8, 1 pgs Display Ad 14 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 7, 1894; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 22, 1893; pg. 9, 1 pgs Display Ad 10 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 27, 1892; pg. 9, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- CHAMPAGNE GLASS The American Periodical Series has "champagne glass" a little earlier than I'd posted, but again, I don't know what it looked like at that time. OED has 1851. Atkinson's Casket (1831-1839), Philadelphia; Jul 1837, Iss. 0 PARIS IN 1837.; pg. 291, 6 pgs Atkinson's Casket (1831-1839), Philadelphia; Feb 1837, Iss. 0 THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH.; pg. 57, 4 pgs (Pg. 57: "Four champagne glasses were also on the table.") From AAllan at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 15:12:23 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:12:23 EDT Subject: "Digital Promise": NHA asks for help Message-ID: The National Humanities Alliance is a consortium of societies and organizations in the humanities, including ADS, that encourages support for the National Endowment for the Humanities. It's located in Washington, of course. This request has just come our way. If you're interested, please reply directly to: jhammer at cni.org. - Allan Metcalf << 24 April 2003 MEMORANDUM TO:? ? NHA Members FR:? ? John Hammer RE:? ? Advice and suggestions needed for Digital Promise report As you may know, in 2001, NHA endorsed the Digital Promise campaign aimed at using some of the money gained from the sale of broadcast frequencies to a fund for research and programs in uses of technology in education.? A legislative success could produce literally billions of dollars of support for a broad range of activities. Somewhat to my surprise, Congress appropriated $750,000 to the Federation of American Scientists to develop a research and development roadmap for implementation of the Digital Promise program. I will be meeting soon with Larry Grossman and Anne Murphy (The tireless duo pursuing the DP in Congress) in connection with planning a report to Congress that will "1) identify priorities and opportunities related to the development, use, and widespread deployment of advanced information and telecommunications technologies; 2) identify innovative strategies for making these technologies available to American homes, schools, universities, museums, libraries, training centers, and other places of learning; and 3) identify possible barriers to the development, use, and widespread deployment of these innovations." In coming weeks, NHA will be developing a short white paper-like report that addresses the three questions above.? It will be very helpful if NHA members can provide contacts (and information, if available) with individual members who may be able to provide suggestions on any of the three questions above.? Please do not limit to your own members if you have knowledge of others who could contribute ideas.? Despite contrary predictions, humanities scholars and others working in the humanities have taken considerable advantage of new technologies.? Inclusion of humanities priorities, opportunities, innovative strategies and so forth in the DP report may lead to considerable new resources for our community. Please e-mail [jhammer at cni.org], fax (202/872-0884) or telephone me with information, suggestions, questions on this issue.? There is some urgency since, I believe, the final report will be due in September (and NHA's by the end of May).? Thanks in advance for your help on this issue>> From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 22:32:11 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:32:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Erin McKean at NYPL on Wednesday Message-ID: OT: ERIN MCKEAN AT NYPL ON WEDNESDAY From today's NEW YORK SUN, 24 April 2003, pg. 18, col. 6: CENSORSHIP IN SCHOOLS _Diane Ravitch_ joins Columbia's incoming provost, _Alan Brinkley_, and _Erin McKean_, senior editor for American dictionaries at Oxford University Press, for a panel examining the sanitization of school tests and textbooks. _Marlene Springer_, president of CUNY College of Staten Island, moderates. Wednesday, April 30, 6:30 p.m., South Court auditorium, Humanities and Social Sciences Library, New York Public Library, Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street, 212-930-0855, free, registration required. --------------------------------------------------------------- OT: THE ONION THE ONION (www.theonion.com), "America's finest news source," is also great on food. On the front page of the 24-30 April 2003 issue is "Nabisco Introduces X-treme Salt-Assault Saltines." The cover story that really had me laughing (or crying?) is "New Fox Reality Show To Determine Ruler Of Iraq." I'm sure all of the contestants on "Appointed by America" are qualified, but personally, I'd vote for the gorgeous blonde to rule. --------------------------------------------------------------- OT MISC: NO STRIKE--My doormen aren't going out on strike; it was settled yesterday. I can still go to the library. BOWERY BOYS ASSOCIATION--Getting David Shulman's book on Steve Brodie published by anyone, or even listened to for two minutes, is going to be a large enough task, but he's formed a Bowery Boys Association and we're meeting on May 1st. He says he wants to appoint officers, hold regular meetings, have a newsletter, and I've already funded a "Steve Brodie" poetry contest--uh boy. "NO RESPONSE" CITY--This again seems to be "no response" month. I wrote to the American Antiquarian Society about its digitization projects--not really much of a stumper--and no one responds for weeks... I wrote to Alexander Street Press, who digitized North American Women/Civil War Letters and Diaries, about the availability of two of its new databases. This is its business. Again, no one responds... The New-York Historical Society, which is starting a new publication where "the Big Apple" should have a home, hasn't even mailed me a style sheet... The Yankees turned 100 on Tuesday, there was a story about it on Wednesday, and I sent a letter to the editor of the NEW YORK TIMES on the origin of "Yankees" last night. This one's only been a few hours, but give it time. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Thu Apr 24 23:50:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:50:07 -0400 Subject: Dinnerware (1843); Serveware (1954); Housewares (1898) Message-ID: So beware Say a prayer. --George M. Cohan, "Over There" (Did I do "beware"?) --------------------------------------------------------------- DINNERWARE OED has one 1970 hit for "dinnerware." 25 April 1843, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 3: ...tea, china and dinner ware, knives and forks,... Word Mark ROYALON ON MELAMINE DINNERWARE IS LIKE STERLING ON SILVER Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 020. US 002. G & S: PLASTIC DINNERWARE. FIRST USE: 19610300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19610300 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 72159286 Filing Date December 17, 1962 Registration Number 0777177 Registration Date September 22, 1964 Owner (REGISTRANT) ROYALON, INC. CORPORATION OHIO SEBRING, OHIO Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. Live/Dead Indicator DEAD --------------------------------------------------------------- SERVEWARE OED has no hit at all for "serveware." Google has 114,000 hits! There are food and computer definitions. Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Dec 3, 1954; pg. 11, 1 pgs ("Exciting New Bake and Serve Ware" at the Food-a-Rama.) Word Mark SERVEWARE Goods and Services IC 009. US 038. G & S: computer software to convert personal computers and to link multiple users on a local area network to plot server. FIRST USE: 19900518. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900518 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74079289 Filing Date July 16, 1990 Published for Opposition October 15, 1991 Registration Number 1671011 Registration Date January 7, 1992 Owner (REGISTRANT) Xerox Corporation CORPORATION NEW YORK 800 Long Ridge Road P.O. Box 1600 Stamford CONNECTICUT 06904 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20020227. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20020227 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE --------------------------------------------------------------- HOUSEWARES OED has 1921 for "house wares." (HOUSEWARE) Display Ad 9 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 31, 1902; pg. 7, 1 pgs Display Ad 64 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 3, 1898; pg. 21, 1 pgs ("Crockery and Housewares" are in an ad for A. Kann, Sons & Co.) Display Ad 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 5, 1884; pg. 3, 1 pgs (Didn't see it here--ed.) THE; SOFT-SHELL RATIFICATION MEETING. MEETINGS WITHIN AND WITHOUT THE HALL. Speeches of John Cochrane, Lorenzo B. Shepard, John B. Steele, David T. Wright, Capt. Ryndors, Alexander Ming, &c. &c. NEW SPEAKERS IN OLD; New York Daily Times, New York, N.Y.; Nov 3, 1854; pg. 1, 1 pgs (I don't think this applies--ed.) (HOUSE WARE) Display Ad 24 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 19, 1899; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("House Wares" sold at Goldenberg's. Many other hits follow, but don't seem to apply. This is the earliest store ad--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 00:22:45 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:22:45 -0400 Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) Message-ID: ERSATZ OED and Merriam-Webster have 1875 for "ersatz." I found "ersatz" in only the first of the below, but welcome anyone to ruin his or her eyes on the other six items. NEWS NOTES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 18, 1871; pg. 1, 1 pgs ("The real army and _ersatz_ reserve--iz., those below the regulation stature, who, however, are in general quite fit to take the field and are taller than the French--has not been called out.") FRANCE AND PURSSIA.; British Diplomacy in the France-Prussian Imbroglio.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 15, 1870; pg. 5, 1 pgs Classified Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1867; pg. 6, 2 pgs Article 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 16, 1867; pg. 5, 1 pgs THIRTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS.; SECOND SESSION. SENATE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 24, 1865; pg. 5, 1 pgs FROM UTAH.; A Bold Enterprise--The Deseret Express and Road Company--Mormonism Speculative--The Bench Laying Aside the Ermine-Miscellaneous.; Special Correspondence of the N.Y. Daily Times.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Apr 18, 1856; pg. 2, 1 pgs LATEST INTELLIGENCE; XXXIId CONGRESS...First Session.. SENATE. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. ; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Dec 18, 1851; pg. 2, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- ERSATZ COFFEE We discussed "ersatz kaffee" here once before. I didn't find "kaffee," but here's some "coffee." Reich Gets New Ersatz Coffee; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1940; pg. 11, 1 pgs INSIDE GERMANY: THE MARK OF WAR; INSIDE GERMANY; By OTTO D. TOLISCHUS, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, European; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 17, 1939; pg. 102, 4 pgs SPAIN PAINFULLY RISES FROM RUINS; The People Work and Play Once More, but Militarism and Distress Are Evident; By E. NEVILLE HART; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 13, 1939; pg. E5, 1 pgs BOOKS OF THE TIMES; By JOHN CHAMBERLAIN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 16, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs FOUND FOOD ENOUGH IN BELGIAN CITIES; American Observer Was Also Surprised at Relative Plenty in Alsace. DUE TO GERMANS' RETREAT Armistice Prevented Their Ravaging These Sources Which Had Supplied Their Armies.; By WALTER DURANTY. Copyright, 1918, by The New York Times Company Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 3, 1918; pg. 5, 1 pgs ("...bread, butter and sugar gratis, and a vile ersatz coffee, with genuine homemade cordial, 1 mark.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 01:17:18 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:17:18 -0400 Subject: Chicken-Fried Steak(1935); Country Gravy(1915); Stack Cakes Message-ID: CHICKEN FRIED STEAK Once again, the WASHINGTON POST is a little earlier than the NEW YORK TIMES item, below, that I'd posted on this: Kansas Convicts Object To Such Meals as These; By The Associated Press.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 19, 1935; pg. 3, 1 pgs These 3 Rules Assure Flaky Crust for Pie; Keep Them Tacked Up in a Conspicuous Place in the Kitchen.; By Dorothea Duncan.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 23, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs ("This steak, no doubt, is what many call a chicken-fried steak and is a piece of top-round, which is prepared in the following manner: Have the steak cut one-half inch thick. Pound it well on both sides with a wooden potato masher or mallet. Rub the steak on both sides with flour which has been mixed with a sprinkling of salt and pepper. Sear it quickly on both sides in a little grease in a frying pan. Then cover and place in a moderately low oven (325 degrees F.) for about 20 to 30 minutes or until tender. This type of steak is excellent when served with mushroom or tomato sauce. The pounding tenders the naturally tough fibers of the meat.") --------------------------------------------------------------- COUNTRY GRAVY Once again, the WASHINGTON POST is just ahead of the NEW YORK TIMES. FINE FARE ON THE FARM.; The Soil Tiller Better Off Than the City Man in These Days.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 7, 1918; pg. 44, 1 pgs A Great Joint Boon; HAM AND EGGS AS AN ALL-INVITING AND DELECTABLE EDIBLE LEAD THE LIST.; [Tacoma/Ledger.]; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 19, 1915; pg. MS1, 1 pgs ("Even a steak, or a pork tenderloin with country gravy, or a roast young duckling with banana fritters frescoed with rum was out of the question.") --------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSPARENT PIE The next lecture of the Culinary Historians of New York, on May 15th, 7 p.m. at the Park Avenue Methodist Church, by Matt and Ted Lee is titled: "From Shuck Beans to Transparent Pies: Contemporary Cooking in Appalachia." News of Food: Delicacies of the Old South; Derby Day Breakfast Means Mint Julep, Batter Bread and Kentucky Know-How ; By JANE NICKERSONThe New York Times Studio; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 27, 1950; pg. 36, 1 pgs (A recipe for "Transparent Pie" is here, taken from Mrs. Morris Flexner's excellent OUT OF KENTUCKY KITCHENS--ed.) --------------------------------------------------------------- STACK CAKE Not in OED, but it will be when they get around to "S." More pressing, of course, is DARE, which is at "SK." News of Food; North and South Vie in Kentucky Menus -- Limestone Lettuce Is Distinctive in Salads ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1953; pg. 18, 1 pgs ("_Stack Cake for Picnics_ Another regional dessert is a stack cake, which consists of several layers of cake put together with a thick filling. According to one theory, the stack cake dates back to colonial times when the all-day picnic was an important event and each family contributed to the menu. Because it was difficult to fit individually packed cakes and pies into a hamper, someone conceived the idea of layering together several cakes, and sometimes pies, into one unit. This recipe is from east Kentucky...") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 02:54:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:54:09 -0400 Subject: Flat ware (1746) Message-ID: OED and Merriam-Webster both have 1851 for "flatware." Merriam-Webster gives a pointer to compare this to "hollowware," which it dates to 1682. This should have been a clue that we're AT LEAST a century off here. Gosh, is this stuff bad. That's why I do parking tickets for a living. (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES) September 25, 1746 The Pennsylvania Gazette To be Sold by CALEB RANSTED, at his House next Door to the King's Arms in Front street, near the Bank Meeting. GOOD Bohea Tea by the chest or smaller quantity; sugar by the barrel or hundred; coffee by the hundred or dozen; pepper; alspice; cinnamon; Hungary water; almonds; raisins; indigo; stone blue; sweet oil; yellow paint; verdegrease; box irons and heaters; English steel; milk pots; decanters; cruits; salts; tumblers; beet; wine and dram glasses, all by the box or dozen; white stone tea ware; red ditto; frosted ditto; yellow, hollow and << flat ware>> , all by the creit; French white ware, and red ditto, by the dozen; snuff. October 9, 1746 (SAME ITEM, DIFFERENT DATE?--ed.) The Pennsylvania Gazette To be Sold by CALEB RANSTED, at his House next Door to the King's Arms in Front street, near the Bank Meeting, GOOD Bohea Tea by the chest or smaller quantity; sugar by the barrel or hundred; coffee by the hundred or dozen; pepper; alspice; cinnamon; Hungary water; almonds; raisins, indigo, stone blue; sweet oil; yellow paint; verdegrease; box irons and heaters; English steel mill pecks; decanters; cruits; salts; tumblers; beer, wine and dram glasses, all by the box or dozen; white stone tea ware; red ditto; frosted ditto; yellow, hollow and << flat ware>> , all by the crait; French white ware, and red ditto, by the dozen, snuff. November 8, 1750 The Pennsylvania Gazette Imported in the snow Baldwin, from Liverpool, and to be sold by GREENWAY and RUNDLE, At the middle store, on Reese Meredith's Wharff, for ready money, AN assortment of 3 qr. 7 eights, and yard wide linnen and cotton checks, strip'd ditto, Irish ozenbrigs, 3 qr. and 7 eights Irish linnens, cambricks, lawns, sail canvas, No. 2, 3, 4, and 5; yarn and worsted hose, mens castor and felt hats, boys felt and laced castor hats, womens ruff ditto, with bugle bands, glass, delph, stone, dipp'd, flint, and yellow round and << flat ware>> , by the crate, grindstones from 13 to 30 inches diameter, and fine salt. February 18, 1752 The Pennsylvania Gazette Imported in the last vessels from Liverpool, and to be sold by GEORGE OKILL, At his store, in Water street, a little above Arch street, for ready money, or short credit, Scarlet, black, and drab colourbroadcloths, kerseys, plains, half thicks, rugs and blankets, scarlet, black, blue and drab colour shaloons, pink and drab colourtammies, 6 qr. yd. wd. 7 eights and 3 q. cotton and linnen checks, yd. wd. and 7 eights Irish linnen, men and boys felt hats, fine and coarse cambricks, fine colourthread, fine English bed ticks, with bolsters and pillows, men and womens worsted stockings, cotton ginghams, buckrams, linnen handkerchiefs, silk and cotton gowns, cotton ditto, corded demity, white jeans, fine cotton counterpanes, holland tapes, white filleting and inkle, worsted caddis and quality, nuns pretties, pewter, painted snuff boxes, metal and gilt buttons, shoe buckles, buck and seale hafted table knives and forks, clasp knives, penknives, tea tongs and spoons, sleeve buttons, scissars, thimbles, bohea tea in canisters and half chests, English cordage, satinett, sewing and whipping twine, seine ditto, Hungary and lavender water, delph, flint, stone, yellow and << flat ware>> , Chesire cheese, coarse salt, &c. &c. &c. Accessible Archives Search and Information Server Query ?flat ware? Press Your "Back" Button to RETURN ITEM #40461 June 11, 1767 The Pennsylvania Gazette Wilmington, June 6, 1767. WADE and HEMPHILL, At their NEW STORE, in Wilmington, New Castle County, take this Opportunity of informing their Customers, and the Country in general, THAT they have laid in a fresh, large, and neat Assortment of dry Goods, suitable for the Season; likewise Rum, Jamaica Spirits, Wine, Melasses, Muscovado, Lump and Loaf Sugars, coarse and fine Salt, Bohea and Green Tea, with a general Assortment of Groceries, Dye Stuffs, and Hard Ware, which they are determined to sell on the same Terms as usual, for Cash or Country Produce. (...) N.B. FRANCIS WADE, in Philadelphia, has to sell as usual, on the lowest Terms, for Cash, a general Assortment of European Goods, suitable for the Season; likewise Bohea and Souchong Tea, by the Chest; Coffee and Pepper, by the Hundred or Dozen; a Parcel of Crates of yellow hollow and << flat Ware>> , and white Stone Ware. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 04:57:50 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:57:50 -0400 Subject: (Maryland) Beaten Biscuit (1854) Message-ID: DARE has 1877 for "beaten biscuit," also called "Maryland beaten biscuit" or "beat biscuit." There's a good map. The Gerritsen Collection has "beat biscuit" in a shrimp recipe in the CAROLINA HOUSEWIFE, but I don't think it applies. (NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES database) 1. Lomax, Elizabeth Lindsay?. "Diary of Elizabeth Lindsay Lomax, August, 1854" [Page 26 | Paragraph | Section | Document] persuaded to dance the Virginia Reel-- We had a merry time. Saturday, August 26, 1854 This morning very early, Mrs. Lee arrived with a large box of edibles for our boys to take to West Point. It contained Virginia ham, beaten biscuits, cakes and all manner of good things. What fun the boys will have treating their friends. My darling boy left on the noon cars-- The house seems desolate without him. Wednesday, August 30, 1854 Very warm. 2. Andrews, Eliza Frances. "Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865" [Page 169 | Paragraph | Section | Document] what I could from Metta, but her things don't fit me, and I made a comical appearance. I was too hungry to care, however, after starving since Monday, and such a supper as we had was enough to make one forget all the ills of life. Delicious fresh milk and clabber, sweet yellow butter, with crisp beaten biscuits to go with it, smoking hot waffles, and corn batter cakes brown as a nut and crisped round the edges till they looked as if bordered with lace. It was a feast for hungry souls to remember. After supper we went into the parlor and had music. We tried to sing some of our old rebel songs, but Results Bibliography Lomax, Elizabeth Lindsay, 1796-?, Diary of Elizabeth Lindsay Lomax, August, 1854, in Leaves from an Old Washington Diary. Wood, Lindsay Lomax. New York, NY: Books, Inc., 1943, pp. 256. [Bibliographic Details] [Biography] [8-25-1854] S293-D009 Andrews, Eliza Frances, 1840-1931, Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865, in The War-Time Journal of a Georgia Girl 1864-1865. King, Spencer B., Jr., ed.. New York, NY: Appleton-Century-Crofts, 1908, pp. 392. [Bibliographic Details] [4-1-1865] S404-D006 (AMERICAN CIVIL WAR LETTERS AND DIARIES database) 1. Pickett, George Edward. "Letter from George Edward Pickett to LaSalle Corbell Pickett, December 14, 1862" [Page 64 | Paragraph | Section | Document] between Richmond and Washington, fortified for us by the hand of the Great Father. I penciled you a note by old Jackerie on the 12th from the foot of the Hills between Hazel Run and the Telegraph Road. In it I sent a hyacinth-- given me by a pretty lady who came out with beaten biscuit-- and some unwritten and written messages from Old Peter and Old Jack, Hood, Ewell, Stuart, and your "brothers," to the "someone" to whom I was writing. My division, nine thousand strong, is in fine shape. It was on the field of battle, as a division, for the first time yesterday, 2. Andrews, Eliza Frances. "Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865" [Page 169 | Paragraph | Section | Document] what I could from Metta, but her things don't fit me, and I made a comical appearance. I was too hungry to care, however, after starving since Monday, and such a supper as we had was enough to make one forget all the ills of life. Delicious fresh milk and clabber, sweet yellow butter, with crisp beaten biscuits to go with it, smoking hot waffles, and corn batter cakes brown as a nut and crisped round the edges till they looked as if bordered with lace. It was a feast for hungry souls to remember. After supper we went into the parlor and had music. We tried to sing some of our old rebel songs, but 3. Morgan, Julia. "Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892" [Page 86 | Paragraph | Section | Document] gooberpeas, and sometimes cake, and all kinds of fruits How they would enjoy it, after eating hard bread and bacon, and sometimes beans and cowpeas for days! When they would start back, I would fill their canteens with buttermilk and sorghum molasses, give them a piece of corned beef and some beaten biscuit, and they would feel rich and happy. Our old friend, Gen. John M. Bright, had a son not quite fourteen years old, who gave him great uneasiness. He was well grown for his age, looked older than he was; and as his brothers were in the army, he was anxious to go too, 4. Morgan, Julia. "Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892" [Page 107 | Paragraph | Section | Document] I told them that I would cook two days in each week for the gangrene hospital. They sent me out a number of hams and sacks of flour, and I got Joe to build up a fire under a large kettle I had, and we would boil a number of the hams at once. While they were cooking, we would make up a large lot of beaten biscuit, and the ladies of the Sand Hills were very kind in making frequent donations of delicacies, and the next morning I would start with the nice things, just as happy as I could be to feel that I could minister to the sufferers. Joe would take the express and I the barouche, often well packed, Results Bibliography Pickett, George Edward, 1825-1875, Letter from George Edward Pickett to LaSalle Corbell Pickett, December 14, 1862, in The Heart of a Soldier : as Revealed in the Intimate Letters of General George Pickett. Pickett, La Salle Corbell, intro.. New York, NY: Seth Moyle, Inc., 1913, pp. 215. S1617-D010 [Bibliographic Details] [12-14-1862] Picket:L1617-10 Andrews, Eliza Frances, 1840-1931, Diary of Eliza Frances Andrews, April, 1865, in The War-Time Journal of a Georgia Girl 1864-1865. King, Spencer B., Jr., ed.. New York, NY: Appleton-Century-Crofts, 1908, pp. 392. S404-D006 [Bibliographic Details] [4-1-1865] Andrew:D404-6 Morgan, Julia, Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892, in How It Was: Four Years Among the Rebels. Nashville, TN: Privately published, 1892, pp. 204. S2002-D013 [Bibliographic Details] [1892] Morgan:M2002-13 Morgan, Julia, Memoir of Julia Morgan, 1892, in How It Was: Four Years Among the Rebels. Nashville, TN: Privately published, 1892, pp. 204. S2002-D018 [Bibliographic Details] [1892] Morgan:M2002-18 (ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES and MAKING OF AMERICA-CORNELL databases) September 3, 1864 THE CHRISTIAN RECORDER Philadelphia, Pennsylvania I remember now just what was in the basket: two slices of boiled ham; four << beaten biscuits>> baked brown and permeated with butter, to which they had been treated while smoking hot from the oven; two hard-boiled eggs, with a little paper of salt; a small vial of sugar-house molasses, and a bottle of rather blue milk. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Oct 7, 1875; Vol. Volume 5,, Iss. 0 31. VIRGINIA BARBECUES.; Forest and Stream; BY THADDEUS NORRIS.; pg. 130, 1 pgs ("Young squirrels thus cooked with a slice of ham as a condiment, and the cold buttered beaten biscuits, is a dinner fit for a king;...") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Jul 18, 1896; Vol. VOL. XLVII., Iss. 0 2. CHICAGO AND THE WEST.; Camp "Forest and Stream." ; Forest and Stream; E. HOUGH.; pg. 48, 2 pgs (Pg. 49: "We had bacon and eggs of course, and we had Maryland beaten biscuit and cold butter from our spring cold storage.") A Journal of Outdoor Life, Travel, Nature Study, Shooting, Fishing, Yachting (1873-1930), New York; Sep 7, 1895; Vol. VOL XLV., Iss. 0 3. The Sportsman Tourist.; CAMP FOREST AND STREAM.--II. Proper Preliminaries. ; Forest and Stream; E. HOUGH. 909 SECURITY BUILDING, Chicago.; pg. 200, 2 pgs (Pg. 200: "Also we had bacon and eggs and soup and preserved fruit and Maryland beaten biscuit and a great many other things.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 06:56:08 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:56:08 -0400 Subject: Pound Party (1869) Message-ID: The latest DARE has "pound party" from 1877. Last one before parking tickets. There are a lot of BROOKLYN EAGLE hits in 1875. 15 February 1869, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 1: "Pound parties" are the latest. Those invited are expected to contribute one pound at least of something to eat. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) Saturday Evening Post (1839-1885), Philadelphia; Apr 22, 1876; Vol. VoL LV., Iss. 0: 11. "THE SOFTBOY PAPERS,"; LULU SOFTBOY TO EDITOR OF EVENING POST. ; LULU SOFTBOY.; pg. 3, 1 pgs: Then we had "Blue Teas." At Blue Teas you must be intellectual. You must be musical, artistic, or dramatic. (...) Then we had "Pudding Lunches." (...) Well, then we had the "Pound Party" fever, which is still raging. Oh, I forgot to say that at the Pudding Lunches you eat pudding either cold or hot. It is either ice-pudding, or cold plum-pudding with icing, or else it is lemon-pudding, or rice-pudding, in cold frozen slabs with a hot brandy sauce. And you lunch, and you chat, and you eat philopeanas of almonds, and read French _bon-mots_ tied up in _bonbons_. It is all very nice. But at the Pound Party--as by this time I ought to have said--everybody is expected to bring a pound of something, no matter what, and at any hour between eight and twelve at night you may put in an appearance. (If the ADS were to hold a "Pound Party," I'm sure someone would bring reading material from Ezra or Louise Pound--ed.) From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Fri Apr 25 13:40:31 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:40:31 -0400 Subject: Fwd: newzak (how new?) Message-ID: This comes from one of our students. Can anyone track "newzak"? There are 122 google hits (not a huge number), going back to at least 1997, for this obvious spin-off of "muzak". The first Nexis hit (out of 20 I found) was from a 1989 St. Louis Post-Dispatch op-ed column by Clarence Page on the first Bush administration's managing of the news. I'd never heard/seen it before either, or at least never noticed it. Larry --- begin forwarded text Hi Larry, I'm wondering how I missed hearing "newzak" before. Do you know how long this word has been around? It's transparent enough, but here's the context I found it in: ...the media knew that the U.S. government wasn't going to do body counts in Iraq. And with the Bush Administration and the Pentagon aggressively marketing a potential war as a precision-guided, trauma-free exercise in liberation, surely a little rigorous fact-checking was in order. Financing their efforts themselves, the Iraqbodycount.net team has been able to conduct a pretty substantial research project - but imagine the resources a world-class news organization could have devoted to such a project, and the exposure it could have given it. A project like Iraqbodycount.net was tailor-made for today's 24-hour,interactive, constantly updated news cycles - and it represented a rare opportunity for news organizations to go beyond constantly recycled newzak and Pentagon ventriloquism. The fact that no professional media outlet attempted to do what a couple dozen volunteers pulled off was not a triumph of journalistic responsibility, but rather an embarrassing example of journalistic complacency. --- end forwarded text From jester at PANIX.COM Fri Apr 25 13:39:05 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:39:05 -0400 Subject: Fwd: newzak (how new?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 09:40:31AM -0400, Laurence Horn wrote: > This comes from one of our students. Can anyone track "newzak"? > There are 122 google hits (not a huge number), going back to at least > 1997, for this obvious spin-off of "muzak". The first Nexis hit (out > of 20 I found) was from a 1989 St. Louis Post-Dispatch op-ed column > by Clarence Page on the first Bush administration's managing of the > news. I'd never heard/seen it before either, or at least never > noticed it. We have an example from Malcolm Muggeridge in 1968. Jesse Sheidlower OED From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Fri Apr 25 14:25:23 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:25:23 -0400 Subject: Flat ware (1746) In-Reply-To: <1477D92C.1DF2DCDD.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: On 24 Apr 2003, at 22:54, Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > OED and Merriam-Webster both have 1851 for "flatware." Merriam-Webster gives a pointer to compare this to "hollowware," which it dates to 1682. This should have been a clue that we're AT LEAST a century off here. > Gosh, is this stuff bad. That's why I do parking tickets for a living. > > > But remember, Barry -- we're dating words, not things! Very important distinction to keep in mind. Joanne Despres From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Fri Apr 25 14:36:12 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:36:12 -0400 Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) Message-ID: Ersatz is a German adjective meaning "substitute" but which has also evolved to mean something like "make-believe". While I always associate it with the privations of the global Depression in the '30s and the then privations of wartime during and immediately after the Third Reich, it would be interesting to know the cultural context for its adoption in the late 19th Century....and how it came to be adopted by English speakers then and in what context it was used (political or military?). ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:22 PM Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: Bapopik at AOL.COM > Subject: Ersatz (1871); Ersatz Coffee (1918) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > ERSATZ > > OED and Merriam-Webster have 1875 for "ersatz." I found "ersatz" in only the first of the below, but welcome anyone to ruin his or her eyes on the other six items. > > > NEWS NOTES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 18, 1871; pg. 1, 1 pgs > ("The real army and _ersatz_ reserve--iz., those below the regulation stature, who, however, are in general quite fit to take the field and are taller than the French--has not been called out.") > > FRANCE AND PURSSIA.; British Diplomacy in the France-Prussian Imbroglio.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 15, 1870; pg. 5, 1 pgs > > Classified Ad 11 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 28, 1867; pg. 6, 2 pgs > > Article 1 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 16, 1867; pg. 5, 1 pgs > > THIRTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS.; SECOND SESSION. SENATE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 24, 1865; pg. 5, 1 pgs > > FROM UTAH.; A Bold Enterprise--The Deseret Express and Road Company--Mormonism Speculative--The Bench Laying Aside the Ermine-Miscellaneous.; Special Correspondence of the N.Y. Daily Times.; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Apr 18, 1856; pg. 2, 1 pgs > > LATEST INTELLIGENCE; XXXIId CONGRESS...First Session.. SENATE. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. ; New York Daily Times (1851-1857), New York, N.Y.; Dec 18, 1851; pg. 2, 1 pgs > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > ERSATZ COFFEE > > We discussed "ersatz kaffee" here once before. I didn't find "kaffee," but here's some "coffee." > > > Reich Gets New Ersatz Coffee; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 3, 1940; pg. 11, 1 pgs > > INSIDE GERMANY: THE MARK OF WAR; INSIDE GERMANY; By OTTO D. TOLISCHUS, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, Dever from Black Star, European; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 17, 1939; pg. 102, 4 pgs > > SPAIN PAINFULLY RISES FROM RUINS; The People Work and Play Once More, but Militarism and Distress Are Evident; By E. NEVILLE HART; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 13, 1939; pg. E5, 1 pgs > > BOOKS OF THE TIMES; By JOHN CHAMBERLAIN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 16, 1935; pg. 15, 1 pgs > > FOUND FOOD ENOUGH IN BELGIAN CITIES; American Observer Was Also Surprised at Relative Plenty in Alsace. DUE TO GERMANS' RETREAT Armistice Prevented Their Ravaging These Sources Which Had Supplied Their Armies.; By WALTER DURANTY. Copyright, 1918, by The New York Times Company Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 3, 1918; pg. 5, 1 pgs > ("...bread, butter and sugar gratis, and a vile ersatz coffee, with genuine homemade cordial, 1 mark.") > From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 25 15:47:56 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:47:56 +0100 Subject: Joystick Message-ID: A delighful folk etymology holds that the aircraft control stick was originally called a Joyce stick, after its inventer, a Mr Joyce. If we leave that aside, as we must, we are left with an obvious slang source in "joy" + "stick", with a first recorded appearance in 1910. Some etymologists see a crude sexual symbolism in the term, others not. (The implication from HDAS is that the sense of the penis comes later than its aviation one and derives from it.) Has any member of the list done any work on the term or be able to turn up early references that might tie down its antecedents more firmly? -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From millerk at NYTIMES.COM Fri Apr 25 16:31:27 2003 From: millerk at NYTIMES.COM (Kathleen E. Miller) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:31:27 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The New York Times From Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM Fri Apr 25 16:35:16 2003 From: Bill.LeMay at MCKESSON.COM (LeMay, William) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:35:16 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: A minute's googling listed "earworm" as a common term for it. http://www.rense.com/general35/alone.htm >-----Original Message----- >From: Kathleen E. Miller [ mailto:millerk at NYTIMES.COM ] >Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 11:31 AM >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >Subject: Question > > >Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the >phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a >never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? > >Kathleen E. Miller >Research Assistant to William Safire >The New York Times > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 16:37:02 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:37:02 EDT Subject: Joystick Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/2003 11:48:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG writes: > we are left with an obvious slang > source in "joy" + "stick", with a first recorded appearance in 1910 According to Jane's Encylocpedia of Aviation (1993 edition, New York: Crescent Books, 1993, ISBN 0-517-10316-8) page 161 column 1, there was the Bleriot VIII, built in 1908, "featuring a single lever control joystick". What Bleriot, a Frenchman, called the thing was not reported. This brings up the possibility that the joystick was invented and named in France, suggesting that "joystick" has nothing to do with "joy" but rather might be an Anglicization of a French word, perhaps "joie" meaning "game". CIrca 1910 the French were establishing much of the technical jargon of aviation. MWCD10 says "aileron", "empennage", and "fuselage" are all from the French and gives all three a date of 1909. James A. Landau systems engineer FAA Technical Center (ACB-510/BCI) Atlantic City Int'l Airport NJ 08405 USA From RonButters at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 16:39:30 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:39:30 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Joystick?= Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/03 11:48:27 AM, TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG writes: > Some etymologists see a crude sexual symbolism in the term, others > not. > Some etymologists see a crude sexual symbolism in just about everything, so why does this surprise you? There are even those who think that "This sucks!" has its origins in crude sexual repartee. From colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM Fri Apr 25 16:43:03 2003 From: colburn at PEOPLEPC.COM (David Colburn) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:43:03 -0400 Subject: Joystick Message-ID: >. This brings up > the possibility that the joystick was invented and named in France, > suggesting that "joystick" has nothing to do with "joy" but rather might be > an Anglicization of a French word, perhaps "joie" meaning "game". > No -- "joie" does mean "joy." "Jeu" means "game." From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 16:44:46 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:44:46 EDT Subject: Question Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, millerk at NYTIMES.COM writes: > Like a never-ending record of, say, > Waltzing Matilda? > Up went the swagman and jumped into Ms. Miller's head "You haven't heard all of it," cried he And his voice may be heard in a never-ending stereo "You'll keep a-waltzing, Ms. Miller, with me!" From pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU Fri Apr 25 16:51:28 2003 From: pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU (Patti Kurtz) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:51:28 -0400 Subject: Brand names Message-ID: Can anyone list some contemporary references, either internet or journal articles, which discuss the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students doing a project on this who are having trouble finding information. Thanks! -- Patti J. Kurtz Assistant Professor, English From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 17:13:30 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:13:30 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Brand=20names?= Message-ID: > such as "Jeep" for an SUV > "jeep" is a special case, because it was a generic word, and a well-known one at that, before it became a brand name. - Allan Metcalf From pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU Fri Apr 25 17:16:40 2003 From: pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU (Patti Kurtz) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:16:40 -0400 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_ _ _ _Brand_names?= In-Reply-To: <1ec.75a63b9.2bdac6ba@aol.com> Message-ID: Okay, so maybe like "Kleenex" for "tissue." At 01:13 PM 4/25/03 -0400, you wrote: > > such as "Jeep" for an SUV > > >"jeep" is a special case, because it was a generic word, and a well-known one >at that, before it became a brand name. > >- Allan Metcalf Patti J. Kurtz Assistant Professor, English Advisor, Kilikilik I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 25 17:41:10 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:41:10 +0100 Subject: Joystick In-Reply-To: <1cd.81eca63.2bdabe2e@aol.com> Message-ID: > CIrca 1910 the French were establishing much of the technical > jargon of aviation. MWCD10 says "aileron", "empennage", and > "fuselage" are all from the French and gives all three a date of > 1909. That's true. "Hangar" also, I believe. OED2's first citation for "joystick" (1910) also gives what seems to be the equivalent French term of the period: "cloche", though why it should have been compared with a bell is unclear (was it French slang, perhaps?). However, I am told that the modern French term is "manche". Because of these, I am assuming that "joystick" can't actually be French (unless somebody fluent in that language can tell me of an equivalent slang term). -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From self at TOWSE.COM Fri Apr 25 17:45:27 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:45:27 -0700 Subject: Question Message-ID: > >Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the > >phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a > >never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? > > > >Kathleen E. Miller "LeMay, William" wrote: > > A minute's googling listed "earworm" as a common term for it. > > http://www.rense.com/general35/alone.htm > "earworm" is in quite common use in the groups I frequent on Usenet. Checking Googja, the first instance I can find "earworm" used in a Usenet post is a post to soc.motss 1993-03-18. The person writing is explaining "ohrwurm" and translates that German word as "earworm." From that thread, the usage seems to have taken off in soc.motss and spread from there to other Usenet groups and the Web. Best, Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From JMB at STRADLEY.COM Fri Apr 25 18:14:22 2003 From: JMB at STRADLEY.COM (Baker, John) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:14:22 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: An earlier use in the 9/18/87 issue of Newsday quotes alto saxophonist Bobby Watson: >>"I like to create little earworms," he says. "That way people who don't know the technical side of the music will start humming."<< Several recent articles discuss earworms and mention other terms for them: "'Cognitively infectious' musical loops." Observer, 4/6/03. "Stuck song syndrome," "repetitive refrain injury." Herald (Glasgow, Scotland), 3/22/03. "Sticky tune." Richmond Times-Dispatch, 3/20/03. This seems to be the most popular term, after earworm. Several sources refer to "endomusia," the silent recall of a melody, citing Hinsie and Campbell, Psychiatric Dictionary, 4th ed. John Baker -----Original Message----- From: Towse [mailto:self at TOWSE.COM] Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:45 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Question > >Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the > >phenomenon of having something stuck in your head? Like a > >never-ending record of, say, Waltzing Matilda? > > > >Kathleen E. Miller "LeMay, William" wrote: > > A minute's googling listed "earworm" as a common term for it. > > http://www.rense.com/general35/alone.htm > "earworm" is in quite common use in the groups I frequent on Usenet. Checking Googja, the first instance I can find "earworm" used in a Usenet post is a post to soc.motss 1993-03-18. The person writing is explaining "ohrwurm" and translates that German word as "earworm." From that thread, the usage seems to have taken off in soc.motss and spread from there to other Usenet groups and the Web. Best, Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 25 18:24:07 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:24:07 -0400 Subject: Joystick In-Reply-To: <3EA98146.8895.23B258F@localhost> Message-ID: >OED2's first citation for "joystick" (1910) also gives what seems to be >the equivalent French >term of the period: "cloche", though why it should have been compared >with a bell is unclear (was it French slang, perhaps?). OED gives the answer under "cloche", I think (I guess some were like bells). >However, I am told that the modern French term is "manche". Fully "manche a` balai" = "broomstick" apparently. I don't know whether this refers ONLY to the shape or whether the current Halloween-cartoon concept of a witch's aircraft extends to French back when. Apparently recent "joystick" in computer/video-game use translated as "ba^ton de joie" has raised a French eyebrow or two, or has been imagined to. "Joyce stick" surely smells bogus. It is my poorly supported tentative suspicion that "joy stick" is NOT derived from a sexual metaphor: compare "joy ride" and also less common non-sexual expressions such as "joy cart", "joy wagon", "joy buzzer", "joy juice". -- Doug Wilson From mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM Fri Apr 25 18:27:43 2003 From: mailinglists at LOGOPHILIA.COM (Paul McFedries) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:27:43 -0400 Subject: Question Message-ID: I have an entry for "earworm": http://www.wordspy.com/words/earworm.asp Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen E. Miller" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 12:31 PM Subject: Question > Is there a word, dialectical or otherwise, that describes the phenomenon of > having something stuck in your head? Like a never-ending record of, say, > Waltzing Matilda? > > Kathleen E. Miller > Research Assistant to William Safire > The New York Times > From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 18:42:29 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:42:29 EDT Subject: Brand names Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:52:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU writes: > the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for > every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students > doing a > project on this who are having trouble finding information. > try the magazine "Advertising Age" the legal-minded might want to delve in court cases in which a company tries to protect its trademark from being ruled generic, as happened to "Aspirin" James A. Landau From RonButters at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 18:59:15 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:59:15 EDT Subject: JEEP a Brand name? Message-ID: Allan sounds pretty sure about this one, but it is exceedingly rare for a truly "generic" word to become a trademark. In fact, it is my understanding that federal law (since the 1940s) explicitly forbids it. There was a case early in the 20th century in which Singer was declared "generic" by the courts and then later was declared not generic after all. Allan, do you have the court citations for your jeep assertion? I don't doubt your understanding, I'd just like to know the particulars. In a message dated 4/25/03 1:14:11 PM, AAllan at AOL.COM writes: > > such as "Jeep" for an SUV > > > "jeep" is a special case, because it was a generic word, and a well-known > one > at that, before it became a brand name. > > - Allan Metcalf > From douglas at NB.NET Fri Apr 25 19:19:34 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:19:34 -0400 Subject: JEEP a Brand name? In-Reply-To: <44.307ac610.2bdadf83@aol.com> Message-ID: >... it is exceedingly rare for a >truly "generic" word to become a trademark. In fact, it is my understanding >that federal law (since the 1940s) explicitly forbids it. This assumes the infallibility of the US Government among other things. "Thingamajig" is a US registered trademark, for example, from 1980 (generic use, 1828). "Skivvies" is (or was) a US trademark, from 1957 (generic use, 1927, IN A SIMILAR APPLICATION). Maybe slang or colloquial terms tend to be ignored? -- Doug Wilson From TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG Fri Apr 25 19:27:35 2003 From: TheEditor at WORLDWIDEWORDS.ORG (Michael Quinion) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:27:35 +0100 Subject: Joystick In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425141406.04c00d30@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: > OED gives the answer under "cloche", I think (I guess some were > like bells). Thanks for pointing that out. I plead guilty to inadequate research. > It is my poorly supported tentative suspicion that "joy stick" is > NOT derived from a sexual metaphor: compare "joy ride" and also > less common non-sexual expressions such as "joy cart", "joy > wagon", "joy buzzer", "joy juice". Under the circumstances, it would seem that all we can have are tentative suggestions. It is interesting to see that several of these expressions starting with "joy" date from roughly the same period as does "joystick". Perhaps, like the joystick, joy was in the air at the time. -- Michael Quinion Editor, World Wide Words E-mail: Web: From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 19:33:38 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:33:38 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20JEEP=20a=20Brand=20name=3F?= Message-ID: Here's the entry for 1940 from that authoritative work, "America in So Many Words" by Metcalf and Barnhart (Houghton Mifflin, 1997): << Jeep was a term that carried humor before it carried soldiers. It also carried a wide variety of other military meanings before it became the designation for the ?half-ton four-by-four command-reconnaissance car? first manufactured for the U.S. Army in September 1940. Both the design and the name had their beginning in the 1930s, years before they came together in the first production models. The design of the as yet unnamed vehicle apparently originated with a tank captain in 1932, and its development involved three different manufacturers over the rest of the decade. Meanwhile, the term jeep was undergoing its own development. In the military, jeep could mean a recruit, a poorly-fitting coat, or the Link Trainer for pilots. In civilian life, Eugene the Jeep was introduced March 16, 1936 as a new character in the Popeye comic strip. Eugene was a small but mighty creature whose cry was jeep, jeep. The combination of connotations, military and civilian, little and yet powerful, must have been the inspiration that led someone to call the new military vehicle a jeep and thereby fix the meaning for future generations. World War II brought the modern meaning of jeep to all corners of the globe traversed by American soldiers. After the war it added a civilian dimension; the sturdy box with four-wheel drive, open to nature and the elements, became popular for civilian recreation and scientific adventures. The jeep remains in popularity and production now, more than half a century after it first appeared. >> Now the earliest instances "jeep" referring to the vehicle aren't fully known. But after this book was published, Barry Popik posted a 1941 citation: >From THIS WEEK magazine, NEW YORK HERALD TRIBUNE, 27 April 1941, pg. 11, col. 2: ...its midget trucks (jeeps) scooting through the woods like rabbits or, deftly mounted on empty gasoline drums, crossing a river with complete ease. Also from the ARMY TIMES later in 1941: While driving the "jeep" cars, light trucks, wreckers, passenger cars and other types of motor vehicles, the Army drivers have developed a language just as mysterious as Hindustani--and sounds just like it. A lengthy discussion of the origins of "jeep" by Cecil Adams was posted to ADS-L in March 2000. In any case, while the exact details of its origin remain uncertain, it is certain that "jeep" was in use during World War II as a generic, not a brand name. - Allan Metcalf From RonButters at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 19:58:50 2003 From: RonButters at AOL.COM (RonButters at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:58:50 EDT Subject: Brand names -- references ETC. Message-ID: My former student Jennifer Westeghaus (now an intellectual property attorney) and I gave a paper on this very subject at the SHEL conference in Seattle last spring (to be published in the conference proceedings if all goes according to plan). We are also scheduled to give papers on the same topic at the DSNA meeting at Duke at the end of May 2003 and in Sydney, Australia, in July. I don't think the practice -- i.e., asking for a "Kleenex" instead of a tissue, which Jennifer and I note is really just a kind of short-hand reference (technically, SYNECDOCHE or ANTONOMASIA) -- is really "growing." But there is a lot of evidence that the process of trademarks actually turning into generics is on the decline. Some published sources (which our work builds on but does not always agree with): Baron, Dennis. 1989. "Word Law." Verbatim 16.1: 1?4. [an excellent introduction from one of the ADS's very best writers] Clankie, Shawn M. 2001. "Why Bud Weiser Can Sell Cars (But Not Beer)." Verbatim 26.3:3. Clankie, Shawn M. 2002. A Theory of Genericization and Brand Name Change. Edwin Mellon Press. Landau, Sidney. 2001. Dictionaries: The Art and Craft of Lexicography, 2nd edition. Cambridge University Press. [see his discussion of the "metaphorical" use of BAND-AID--a good start but, in our opinion, Landau misses some of the linguistic subtleties] Paikeday, Thomas M. "Xeroxing in American Speech." Paper presented at the American Dialect Society, 27 December 1974. Shuy, Roger. 2002. Linguistic Battles in Trademark Disputes. Palgrave. [acknowledges Landau's arguments and illustrates with other examples, but does not move beyond Landau's frame or reference with respect to genericness] Merriam-Webster. Word for the Wise. 1998 (January 9). http://www.m-w.com/wftw/98jan/010998.htm [suggests the term ANTONOMASIA where we prefer the good old-fashioned SYNECDOCHE) In a message dated 4/25/03 12:55:32 PM, pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU writes: > Can anyone list some contemporary references, either internet or journal > articles, which discuss the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names > for > every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)?? I have students > doing a > project on this who are having trouble finding information. > > Thanks! > > -- > Patti J. Kurtz > Assistant Professor, English > From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 25 20:08:44 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:08:44 -0700 Subject: JEEP a Brand name? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425151451.04bd23b0@pop3.nb.net> Message-ID: > >... it is exceedingly rare for a > >truly "generic" word to become a trademark. In fact, it is > my understanding > >that federal law (since the 1940s) explicitly forbids it. > > This assumes the infallibility of the US Government among > other things. > "Thingamajig" is a US registered trademark, for example, from > 1980 (generic > use, 1828). "Skivvies" is (or was) a US trademark, from 1957 > (generic use, > 1927, IN A SIMILAR APPLICATION). > > Maybe slang or colloquial terms tend to be ignored? As far as I know (I'm not a lawyer, but as a software product manager I've picked up quite a bit about intellectual property law), there isn't a "no prior use" rule with trademarks as there is with patents. Trademarks do not have to be original. They must, however, be "distinctive." This is defined as being associated with a particular product or service, differentiating that product from its competitors. And what is distinctive in one industry may not be distinctive in another. Originality makes a trademark easier to defend, but it's not a requirement. Everyday words can be trademarked, but they're harder to defend--it's easier to prove a unique coinage is distinctive. An orchard, for example, could not trademark "Apple." It is not distinctive in the world of fruit, describing a type of product not a particular one. There was no problem, however, with a computer company trademarking "Apple." This lack of distinctiveness is the problem with products like "Aspirin." If a product is too successful (catastrophic success?), it's name may become associated with the product in general, instead of the brand, therefore losing its distinctiveness. It's the loss of distinctiveness that is key, not simply widespread use of the word. So, there is no problem with an automobile company trademarking "Jeep," so long as no competing company manufactured vehicles known as jeeps. At the time the trademark was established, there was only one manufacturer (Willys?) who made a vehicle known as a "jeep." If you said "jeep" in the context of automobiles, everyone knew you were talking about the light trucks made by Willys and made famous by the US Army in WWII. Therefore it was distinctive. Whether it remains distinctive in the future is something else. Also, it's relatively easy to get a trademark registered. Surviving a court case challenging it is something else. "Thingamajig" may be registered, it might not have a hope in hell of surviving a challenge though--or it might if its application were narrow enough (IIRC, the trademark is for a candy bar, and that may be sufficiently limited to prevent other candymakers from using it as a product name). From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 20:20:10 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:20:10 EDT Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: At a website on jeep history, http://www.ecars.com.au/Jeep/Jeep.History.html it's interesting that the first jeeps were made by more than one company: << Early Years 1940: Jeep specification issued and prototypes built by Bantam, Willys-Overland and later Ford; see the Rifkind report. 1941-1945: Jeep MB, built by Willys- Overland and Ford, Willys 2.2L 4cyl side-valve engine. Pictured is a 1942 Jeep MB. 1942: Ford GPA - Amphibious Jeep or Seep. Civilian Jeeps - CJ CJ2A: 1945-1949, first civilian Jeep. . . . >> etc - Allan Metcalf From AAllan at AOL.COM Fri Apr 25 20:22:40 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:22:40 EDT Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: At a website on jeep history, http://www.ecars.com.au/Jeep/Jeep.History.html it's interesting that the first jeeps were made by more than one company: << Early Years 1940: Jeep specification issued and prototypes built by Bantam, Willys-Overland and later Ford; see the Rifkind report. 1941-1945: Jeep MB, built by Willys- Overland and Ford, Willys 2.2L 4cyl side-valve engine. Pictured is a 1942 Jeep MB. 1942: Ford GPA - Amphibious Jeep or Seep. Civilian Jeeps - CJ CJ2A: 1945-1949, first civilian Jeep. . . . >> etc See also the Rifkind Report that this site refers to: http://www.ecars.com.au/Books/Rifkind.html - Allan Metcalf From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Fri Apr 25 20:21:05 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:21:05 -0400 Subject: Pound Party (1869) In-Reply-To: <2B582122.176A1164.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: At 02:56 AM 4/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: That's a great idea! Or we could have a Read party, or a Kurath party, or a McDavid party. . . . >(If the ADS were to hold a "Pound Party," I'm sure someone would bring >reading material from Ezra or Louise Pound--ed.) From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Fri Apr 25 20:27:59 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:27:59 -0400 Subject: Chicken-Fried Steak(1935); Country Gravy(1915); Stack Cakes In-Reply-To: <76BE9B11.6DECB627.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: At 09:17 PM 4/24/2003 -0400, you wrote: This is still the term used in southern Ohio. >--------------------------------------------------------------- >STACK CAKE > > Not in OED, but it will be when they get around to "S." > More pressing, of course, is DARE, which is at "SK." > > > News of Food; North and South Vie in Kentucky Menus -- Limestone > Lettuce Is Distinctive in Salads ; New York Times (1857-Current file), > New York, N.Y.; Aug 24, 1953; pg. 18, 1 pgs >("_Stack Cake for Picnics_ Another regional dessert is a stack cake, >which consists of several layers of cake put together with a thick >filling. According to one theory, the stack cake dates back to colonial >times when the all-day picnic was an important event and each family >contributed to the menu. Because it was difficult to fit individually >packed cakes and pies into a hamper, someone conceived the idea of >layering together several cakes, and sometimes pies, into one unit. This >recipe is from east Kentucky...") From flanigan at OHIOU.EDU Fri Apr 25 20:30:58 2003 From: flanigan at OHIOU.EDU (Beverly Flanigan) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:30:58 -0400 Subject: (Maryland) Beaten Biscuit (1854) In-Reply-To: <3121AC09.7FF9BFBF.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: This is still a common term, isn't it? for baking powder biscuits, I assume? At 12:57 AM 4/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: > DARE has 1877 for "beaten biscuit," also called "Maryland beaten > biscuit" or "beat biscuit." There's a good map. > The Gerritsen Collection has "beat biscuit" in a shrimp recipe in the > CAROLINA HOUSEWIFE, but I don't think it applies. > From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Apr 26 00:32:14 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:32:14 -0700 Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: I have read somewhere or other, and my father once told me that Ford jeeps were preferred so much over Willys by soldiers that one Ford jeep was worth six Willys in military trade. According to my father this was due to the fact that the Ford was based on the easy to repair Ford Model A design which could be fixed if it broke down with a pair of pliers and some bailing wire. I cannot vouch for the truth of this story. Does anyone know if there is any element of truth to it? Page Stephens ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:22 PM Subject: Jeeps > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: AAllan at AOL.COM > Subject: Jeeps > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > At a website on jeep history, > http://www.ecars.com.au/Jeep/Jeep.History.html > it's interesting that the first jeeps were made by more than one company: > > << Early Years > > 1940: Jeep specification issued and prototypes built by Bantam, > Willys-Overland and later Ford; see the Rifkind report. > 1941-1945: Jeep MB, built by Willys- Overland and Ford, Willys 2.2L 4cyl > side-valve engine. > Pictured is a 1942 Jeep MB. > > 1942: Ford GPA - Amphibious Jeep or Seep. > > Civilian Jeeps - CJ > > CJ2A: 1945-1949, first civilian Jeep. . . . >> etc > > See also the Rifkind Report that this site refers to: > http://www.ecars.com.au/Books/Rifkind.html > > - Allan Metcalf From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Apr 26 00:49:36 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:49:36 -0700 Subject: Diner versus Dinor Message-ID: Has anyone other than my wife who pointed this out to me noticed that the word diner in terms of an eating place is spelled dinor between the Ohio and New York borders, ie. mostly in Pennsylvania? Here are two references. http://www.fishlakeerie.com/girarddinor/ http://www.geocities.com/cornwallace55/lepp.html Page Stephens From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Apr 26 01:10:14 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:10:14 -0700 Subject: Brand names Message-ID: Some of you may also remember the fight that Xerox put up some years ago in order to keep people from xeroxing anything at all but to make copies by the use of a Xerox (tm) machine. Coca Cola lost the battle to their right to use the word "cola" as a proprietary word many years ago. This explains their use of (tm) after the word "Coke" in their ads. In Canada, btw, unless I am incorrect the word "aspirin" is still registered as a trade mark to Bayer. A few years ago Budweiser tried to keep florists from using the phrase, "This bud's for you" in their advertisements. Page Stephens ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. Landau" To: Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Brand names > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "James A. Landau" > Subject: Re: Brand names > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:52:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, > pkurtz at HEIDELBERG.EDU writes: > > > the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for > > every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students > > doing a > > project on this who are having trouble finding information. > > > > try the magazine "Advertising Age" > > the legal-minded might want to delve in court cases in which a company tries > to protect its trademark from being ruled generic, as happened to "Aspirin" > > James A. Landau From dave at WILTON.NET Fri Apr 25 22:52:08 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:52:08 -0700 Subject: Brand names In-Reply-To: <003601c30b90$98766d00$07313a41@m1r7o5> Message-ID: > word "Coke" in their ads. In Canada, btw, unless I am > incorrect the word > "aspirin" is still registered as a trade mark to Bayer. That may be true. The laws differ from country to country. In the case of "Aspirin," Britain and France never recognized the German company's trademark on the word--Aspirin hit the market in 1914. The US, not being at war with Germany at the time, recognized it initially and then in 1917, when it entered the war, stripped Bayer of all its American assets as an enemy alien corporation. The Sterling Drug Company bought Bayer's US facilities and trademarks at government auction. After the war, Bayer was allowed to sell its products in the US, but it couldn't use the names "Bayer" or "Aspirin," those belonged to Sterling. So the "Bayer Aspirin" sold in the US was not made by Bayer. In 1921, the US Supreme Court ruled that "aspirin" had lost its distinctive nature (setting the precedent for this type of action) and Sterling lost the exclusive right to the term. In the 1990s, Bayer bought Sterling, finally reacquiring the right to use its own name in the US. From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Fri Apr 25 23:11:49 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:11:49 -0700 Subject: Brand names In-Reply-To: <1051289488.3ea96790d1286@mail.heidelberg.edu> Message-ID: try www.brandchannel.com cheers - Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Patti Kurtz Sent: April 25, 2003 9:51 AM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Brand names Can anyone list some contemporary references, either internet or journal articles, which discuss the increase (or decrease) in use of brand names for every day items in speech (such as "Jeep" for an SUV)? I have students doing a project on this who are having trouble finding information. Thanks! -- Patti J. Kurtz Assistant Professor, English From dumasb at UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU Fri Apr 25 23:33:15 2003 From: dumasb at UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU (Bethany K. Dumas) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:33:15 -0400 Subject: trademark law Message-ID: An important starting point for assessing the of words or phrases is the legal continuum of generic, descriptive, suggestive, and fanciful/arbitrary terms. Terms in general use are often generic. For a term to be "merely descriptive," it must trigger an almost instantaneous mental connection on the part of the consumer between the term and the exact item to which it refers. Such terms generally cannot be protected. If the use of the term at issue in the relevant context requires use of the imagination or use of inferential techniques in thinking in order to arrive at the connection between the term and its referent, then the term is suggestive, rather than descriptive. Finally, there is the category fanciful/arbitrary - terms which have no direct relationship to the referents. Suggestive and fanciful/arbitrary terms may be able to be protected. (I could write 50-60 more pp. if anyone is interested.) Bethany From sclements at NEO.RR.COM Fri Apr 25 23:44:33 2003 From: sclements at NEO.RR.COM (Sam Clements) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:44:33 -0400 Subject: Jeeps Message-ID: Word Mark JEEP Goods and Services IC 012. US 019. G & S: AUTOMOBILES AND STRUCTURAL PARTS THEREOF. FIRST USE: 19401120. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19430205 Filing Date February 13, 1943 Owner (REGISTRANT) WILLYS-OVERLAND MOTORS, INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE WOLCOTT BLVD. TOLEDO OHIO Of interest is that Willys trademarked the name "jeep," claiming that it was in use(ones assume by that company} as of 11/20/1940. From douglas at NB.NET Sat Apr 26 01:34:30 2003 From: douglas at NB.NET (Douglas G. Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:34:30 -0400 Subject: Diner versus Dinor In-Reply-To: <000701c30b8d$b6bdeb60$07313a41@m1r7o5> Message-ID: "Dinor" for "diner" is said to be characteristic of NW PA, i.e., the Erie PA area. This odd spelling is rare or nonexistent in Pittsburgh. -- Doug Wilson From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 26 09:44:31 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 05:44:31 EDT Subject: Aunt Kate Wicks & "Saratoga Potato Chips" (1917) Message-ID: The WASHINGTON POST copy was probably "Wicks," not "Wieks." It was hard to read. But it was definitely not "Weeks," as some have given her name. Mary O'Donnell of Saratoga has kindly looked up a local obituary, and it has "Wicks." Presumably, that was current and reliable. Plenty of mysteries remain. If Kate Wicks was at Ballston Spa and didn't come to Saratoga until 1861, how did she invent "Saratoga chips" at Moon's in Saratoga in 1853? Subj: Aunt Kate Date: 4/25/2003 1:41:15 PM Eastern Standard Time From: modonnel at skidmore.edu To: Bapopik at aol.com, modonnel at skidmore.edu Sent from the Internet (Details) Barry, Went to the SSPL yesterday and found the obituary for Catherine A. Wicks. I'll send you a copy - but here is what it said - Front page "The Saratogian" Friday, May 18, 1917 Mrs. Wicks dies at age of 102 Catherine A. Wicks, who could in truth remember when "Broadway was a prairie" died early this morning at her home, 6 Union Street, at the advanced age of one hundred and two years, five months and one day. Mrs. Wicks , who was twice married and the mother of a large family, was born in Ballston Spa on December 17, 1814, the daughter of Abraham and Catherine Speck. She was a sister of the late George Speck (Crum), pioneer road house proprietor and cook of Saratoga Lake, who died several years ago, and was herself well known as a cook in the early days of Saratoga Lake's civilized history. It was as a cook at Moon's Lake house many years ago that "Aunt Kate", as she was generally known, conceived the idea of slicing potatoes to a tissue paper thinness and frying them in deep fat, thus being the "inventor" of Saratoga chips. Before going to the Lake to cook, Mrs. Wicks was for fourteen years the cook at the San Souci hotel in Ballston Spa. She was first married in 1846 and came to Saratoga in 1861. As a centarian, she came honestly by her long life, her father dying at the age of ninety-nine, while her mother is said to have reached the age of 111. Her survivors include seven children, Mrs. Caroline Stewart of this city, Richard Adkins of Syracuse, William Adkins of this city, Albert Adkins of Plainfield, N.J., Mrs. Jennie Golden, Edward Adkins and Frederick Wicks all of this city; seven grandchildren, Mrs. Dolly Freeman, Mrs. Kate Freeman, Hattie, Albert, John and Weed Stewart and Major Wicks; and the following great grandchildren: Mary Stewart, Kathleen Freeman, Gilbert Freeman, Stewart Freeman, Jane Freeman and Ralph Freeman. In an interview with a Saratogian reported more than fifteen years ago, Mrs. Wicks is quoted as saying: "I can remember when there wasn't any railroad here. They ran stages from Ballston to Saratoga when I came here. In those days all over on that side of Broadway (indicating the east side) was frog pond and all of this side was blow sand." Funeral services will be held Sunday afternoon at 2 o'clock from the late residence and 2:30 o'clock from the A. M. E. Zion church. Burial will be in Greenridge Cemetery. Mary begin:vcard n:O'Donnell;Mary K. tel;fax:518-580-5540 tel;work:518-580-5000 x 4171 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Skidmore College;Lucy Scribner Library adr:;;North Broadway;Saratoga Springs,;NY;12866; version:2.1 email;internet:modonnel at skidmore.edu title:Circulation x-mozilla-cpt:;28888 fn:Mary K. O'Donnell end:vcard From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 26 11:15:15 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:15:15 EDT Subject: French Fried Onions (1910); Amish Preaching Soup (1950) Message-ID: The branch of "fast food" known as New York City's Parking Violations Bureau in the Bronx had some out-of-touch Manhattanites devise an electronic queueing system. It resulted in utter chaos yesterday. Ten hours with no break but a half hour lunch. This and the good fortune of having dead family members enables me to give away my work for free. Working in the Bronx and solving the "Yankees" counts for nothing with the New York Yankees and now the NEW YORK TIMES, I guess. Below, if I'm conscious, is some leftover research from Thursday...I'll probably visit the Library of Congress on Monday. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- FRENCH FRIED ONIONS & FRIED GREEN TOMATOES This is from the NYPL's Susan Dwight Bliss microfilmed collection of food clippings from NYC newspapers. The dates are handwritten and nearly illegible, but this one is clearly 1910. NEW YORK SUN 29 May 1910 Pg. 195 in Susan Dwight Bliss collection A novelty that progressive New York restaurants are introducing with great appreciation from their patrons is one that can be reproduced at home without difficulty--French fried onions. In flavor and appearance they bear little relation to the usual breakfast fish, and which, moreover, are possible to many to whom "for the stomach's sake" the others are impossible. The sweet Bermuda onion is used for this new dainty. It is cut thin to resemble French fried potatoes. Before cooking dredge with flour. Fry quickly in a wire basket in hot deep fat until crisp, brown, and free of grease. Very delicious as an accompaniment for beef steak, or, in fact, good with almost any kind of red meat. Now that tomato season is approaching, the fact that green tomatoes are more delicately flavored and more delicious fried than the red ones usually cooked that way is worth a word of reminder. Jot it down in the household new idea book to be tried for breakfast some morning, or at luncheon, with or without a meat dish. Cut into thin slices some large, perfectly green specimens, (they must not have begun to show any signs of ripening, and those freshly pulled are really the best for the dish,) sprinkle with salt and dip in corn meal until covered. Saute in a little butter until a nice brown. Cover the frying pan throughout the cooking process to keep the tomatoes tender. They may be brought to table with the accompaniment of a brown sauce or plain. ("French fried onions" is a "new dainty" in 1910? "Fried green tomatoes" for the household "new idea" book in 1910?--ed.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- AMISH PREACHING SOUP HOBBY HORSE COOKERY: FAVORITE RECIPES OF MARJORY HENDRICKS' WATER GATE INN, WASHINGTON, D. C. compiled by Flora G. Orr 1950 Pg. 6: AMISH PREACHING SOUP (Often served after church in the Pennsylvania Dutch regions because it can be simmering while the people are praying) 2 cups baked or boiled navy beans 3 slices bacon 2 medium-size onion, minced 4 cups cold water 1 tablespoon butter 1 tablespoon flour Seasonings: salt, pepper, paprika, Lowry's seasoned salt Pg. 7: Navy beans should be soaked overnight, before boiling them until they are tender. About the only time you would use baked beans would be an occasion when you had some left-over baked beans. Cook the bacon. Add it to the beans, minced onion and cold water. Simmer until beans are very soft, then rub all through a strainer to puree the beans and remove the hulls. (A few whole beans may be kept for floating in the finished soup.) Place strained mixture on the fire and add a little more water, if needed, as the soup must not be too thick. Rub butter with flour to make a paste and put this in soup as a binder, stirring until it blends nicely. Cook 2 or 3 minutes longer. Season. (Instead of the bacon and 4 cups cold water, bits of ham and 4 cups of stock from cooking a ham bone may be substituted.) Pg. 7: PENNSYLVANIA DUTCH HOT POPOVERS Pg. 8: INTOXICATED LOIN OF PORK LATTWAERICK Pg. 11: ROAST BEEF OR CORNED BEEF HEXEL Pg. 17: DUTCH FARMER'S HODGE PODGE CHICKEN...MENNONITE BAKED CHICKEN IN SOUR CREAM Pg. 18: MUSHROOMS CARBAREAN Pg. 19: SHRIMP WIGGLE ESCHE PUDDLE Break freshly-cooked and dressed shrimp into pieces not more than one-half inch in length. Combine them with enough fresh or frozen peas to make one-half the measure of the shrimp pieces. Make a white sauce with cream or very rich milk, butter and flour and seasonings. Put shrimp and peas in this sauce. Heat very slowly, stirring constantly to avoid scorching. The addition of a few mushrooms, chopped green peppers and pimentoes is permissible, if desired. Just before serving, season with sherry wine. If necessary to thin the sauce during cooking, use chicken broth. Pg. 21: SOFT SHELL CRABS PIMLICO Pg. 22: SPINACH PUREE SMITANE Pg. 23: CORN PUDDING EPHRATA Pg. 24: TOASTED CARROTS LEBANON Pg. 26: FRIED POATOES LEIDY...LANCASTER COUNTY SALAD Pg. 27: SOUR CREAM-RAISIN PIE (Sometimes called Funeral Pie by the Pennsylvania Dutch, but there is nothing mournful about it!) (DARE has "funeral pie" from 1949 and 1950. Recipe typed on request--ed.) Pg. 29: GRANDMA SHIELD'S MONTGOMERY CAKE-PIE Pg. 30: DUTCH APPLE-CHEESE PIE...BARBARA FRITCHIE SUGAR HOUSE PIE Pg. 32: ETHEL'S FAMOUS BRANDY PUDDING SAUCE Pg. 35: BAKED ORANGES WHITLOCK From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sat Apr 26 12:41:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:41:12 EDT Subject: Texas Trash (1985) Message-ID: A Chex mix. That company has promoted "Texas Trash," but it doesn't look like they originated it. See Google Groups. Will "Texas Trash" be in the next DARE? "Texas Trash" is not to be confused with DALLAS actress Charlene Tilton or any others on that show. I've gotta do something for the Texans (Kathleen Miller?) on the list. http://www.russelltexas.com/trash.htm http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5358/appetizer/appetizer13.html http://www.cookingcache.com/texastrash.shtml http://www.jewish-food.org/recipes/textrash.htm http://www.angelfire.com/doc/general/insite.html?search_string=%22texas+trash% 22+chex& member_url=http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?search_string=%22te xas+trash%22+chex http://www.nbc5i.com/cookingwithcarol/1758024/detail.html http://www.recipegoldmine.com/regionaltexas/texas24.html http://www.cookbooks4sale.com/displayRecipe.php/rid.4837/by.linklist/display.h tm Typed DrawingWord Mark TEXAS TRASH Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: snack food, namely a mix consisting of cereals, pretzels, sesame sticks, seeds and spices. FIRST USE: 19850820. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850927 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74664396 Filing Date April 21, 1995 Published for Opposition June 4, 1996 Registration Number 1996639 Registration Date August 27, 1996 Owner (REGISTRANT) Southern Style Nuts, Inc. CORPORATION TEXAS P.O. Box 860 Denison TEXAS 75020 Attorney of Record W. Thomas Timmons Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TEXAS" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark TEXAS TRASH Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: FOOD SNACKS. FIRST USE: 19850827. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19851031 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Serial Number 73582500 Filing Date February 12, 1986 Owner (APPLICANT) P. J. FOODS, INC. CORPORATION TEXAS 8535 WEST BELLFORT HOUSTON TEXAS 77071 Attorney of Record WILLIAM C. NORVELL, JR. Description of Mark ON THE DRAWING, THE CROSS-HATCHING "=" IS FOR THE COLOR BLUE. LETTERS WITHOUT CROSS-HATCHING ARE OPTIONALLY RED OR GOLD Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date October 27, 1986 Typed DrawingWord Mark TEXAS TRASH Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: SNACK FOOD, NAMELY, A MIX CONSISTING OF CEREALS, PRETZELS, SESAME STICKS, SEEDS AND SPICES. FIRST USE: 19850820. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850927 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73567435 Filing Date November 7, 1985 Published for Opposition December 9, 1986 Registration Number 1511947 Registration Date November 8, 1988 Owner (REGISTRANT) LODGE, SUSAN C. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 8009 ANADELL STREET HOUSTON TEXAS 77055 Attorney of Record HARVEY B. JACOBSON Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TEXAS" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date May 15, 1995 From gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG Sat Apr 26 21:07:20 2003 From: gbarrett at WORLDNEWYORK.ORG (Grant Barrett) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:07:20 -0400 Subject: Information Architecture Argot Message-ID: A short list of information architecture argot: http://www.veen.com/jeff/archives/000110.html My favorite: Boil the Ocean v. Try to solve too many problems with an overambitious project, typically resulting in a complete failure. Many Content Management projects end up this way when attempting to port an entire organization's content, process, and workflow into one new, massive tool. "Look, just help the HR teams get their forms online. We don't need to boil the ocean with this." From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 00:33:38 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 20:33:38 -0400 Subject: Corn Dog (1929); Hot Dog Roll (1949) Message-ID: CORN DOG Here's the 1942 Texas State Fair "Corn Dog" Myth, as presented in the NEW YORK TIMES: Article 1 -- No Title; By PETER APPLEBOME, DALLAS; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 12, 1983; pg. C3, 1 pgs: His idea was the corn dog, or Fletchers Original State Fair Corny Dog to be precise, a hot dog on a stick wrapped in cornbread that is as much a culinary tradition in Texas as scrapple is in Philadelphia or soft pretzels are in New York. When the State Fair of Texas, America's largest, opened last Friday, Mr. Fletcher was on hand to lord over six stands selling the creation he and his brother, Carl, invented 41 years ago. (...) After trying out a series of names ranging from K-9 and Brown Bomber to French Fried Hot Dog and Meal on a Stick, the Fletchers finally came up with a name and built a clientele. Unfortunately for the 1942 "corn dog" myth, I'd posted (see ADS-L archives) 1939 and 1941 "corn dogs" from these two ProQuest newspapers: 1. FLORIDA ON $30 A WEEK; A Modest Budget Allows for a Variety of Diversion in Winter Sunshine; By DORA BYRON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 7, 1941; pg. XX2, 1 pgs 2. A Woman's New York; Mary Steele, 5 Feet 10 Inches of Blonde, Successor to the Photogenic Frazier, Appears, Slightly Early, to Be 'Miss Glamor'; By Alice Hughes; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 29, 1939; pg. 9, 1 pgs I was going throught this wonderful book today (more on it later), and it looks like "corn dog" is even earlier. Maybe, now that I'm on good terms with the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council for solving the "hot dog," you'll see this information soon on their web site? 300 YEARS OF KITCHEN COLLECTIBLES new and greatly expanded third edition by Linda Campbell Franklin Florence, Alabama: Books Americana 1991 Pg. 235, col. 2: IV-180. (ILLUSTRATION--ed.) _Corn dog baker._ "'Krusty Korn Dog' baker, also sandwich roaster (grill) or steak fryer. A big money maker! For use on gas, gasoline, oil or coal stoves. 'Krusty Korn Dogs' are novel and delicious. The hot dog is baked inside the corn batter, which as it bakes, moulds itself to resemble an ear of corn 6 3/8"L and 1 1/2" diameter. Easy to make: Red hots are first fried in butter, then placed in 'korn dog' sections together with required amount of batter, they are then quickly and thoroughly baked together. Baker is made of cast iron, smooth japanned finish, with heavy, sturdy wire coil pan handles. Heavy lifting handles at each end." Frame is 2 1/2" x 10 1/4" x 21 1/4"; fryer pan is 3/4" deep x 8 1/2"H x 8 3/8". You bought the frame and a fry pan (griddle), and a pair of the "Krusty Korn Sausage Dog Pans," each of which made two, separately to suite your business. In Pick-Barth wholesale catalog of many makers' hotel and restaurant supplies, 1929. $40.00-$150.00 Pg. 272: IV-369. _"Hot Dog" patent._ This picture is from the June 1930 issue of Science & Invention, in their "Yankee Brains at Work" column about new inventions. This is Patent #1,742,945 issued to Peter S. Banff. "Relates to an electrical cooking device designed primarily for that type of sandwich termed 'hot dog.'"(...) (Just thought I'd add this one, too. A child eats a food product molded in the shape of a dog. Stick to animal crackers, kid--ed.) OCLC WorldCat showed no successful results, but there's a mention of the 1929 catalogue on Google Groups: From: MrOGee (mrogee at aol.com) Subject: FS:Restaurant catalog-1929 This is the only article in this thread View: Original Format Newsgroups: rec.antiques.marketplace Date: 1997/11/14 Albert Pick-Barth Co.-1929-Everything in Equipment Furnishings and Supplies for Hotels, Restaurants, Clubs and Institutions. Very good condition. E-mail MrOGee at AOL.Com --------------------------------------------------------------- HOT DOG ROLL When did supermarkets start selling the "hot dog roll" we all know and love? And why are hot dogs sold in differently numbered packs than hot dog rolls? I'll leave the latter question for Cecil Adams. 1. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 22, 1949; pg. 8, 1 pgs 2. Display Ad 7 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 30, 1949; pg. 7, 1 pgs 3. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 2, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 4. Display Ad 14 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 8, 1949; pg. 15, 1 pgs 5. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 6. Display Ad 10 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 8, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 7. Display Ad 8 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 1, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 8. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 18, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs 9. Display Ad 9 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 11, 1949; pg. 9, 1 pgs ("We're proud to introduce to Safeway customers three new packaged rolls baked in the same modern bakery as the famous Mrs. Wright's Bread. Bun-Craft Hot Dog Rolls, CLub-Snak Sandwich Buns and Dinner-Quik Pan Rolls.") 10. Photo Standalone 2 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 17, 1942; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Two high school sorority inductees...roll hot dogs up Thirteenth Street hill...") 11. One More Week...; Mr. Frick and Mr. Harridge Speak; By Ben Dulaney.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Apr 13, 1936; pg. X15, 1 pgs ("The other disagreeable fact that can be recorded in the races is that even on the first day of the spring season you can't get a fresh hot dog roll. They pack 'em away each year in burlap bags and save 'em like porch rockers.") 12. Classified Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 26, 1934; pg. N16, 1 pgs ("FOOD ITEM--SENSATIONAL--BIG PROFITS selling 'Rights' to make HOLLOW hot dog rolls; royalty-commission basis; send stamp. House of Spaulding, Lowell, Mass.") 13. Hot Dog Roll, Derelict in Prague Gutter, Brings Lynching Threat to Callous Owner; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 30, 1930; pg. E3, 1 pgs From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 13:37:07 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:37:07 EDT Subject: Cooking Tour(1960); Texas Toast(1961); Steak Sauce(1936); Grilling Sauce(1978) Message-ID: COOKING TOUR I had planned a cooking tour of Siciliy, leaving about a month from now. This is nearing the end of my world travels. These days, you can't go even to Toronto. "Cooking tour"--not to be confused with "Cook's Tour"--is not in OED? There are over 1,000 tempting Google hits. Display Ad 97 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 1, 1981; pg. C14, 1 pgs Classified Ad 205 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 25, 1981; pg. C20, 1 pgs Display Ad 110 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 11, 1981; pg. C17, 1 pgs Display Ad 85 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 4, 1981; pg. C12, 1 pgs On African Safari, She Bagged Native Recipes for Her Book; By CRAIG CLAIBORNE; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 17, 1970; pg. 54, 1 pgs ("Their cooking tour took them through 'fantastic homes' in cities as well as to outdoor cooking in the bush.") Joan Fontaine; rivals the story tellers; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Nov 27, 1960; pg. H3, 2 pgs ("One year I went on a cooking tour of the best restaurants in Europe.") --------------------------------------------------------------- TEXAS TOAST See past "Texas Toast" posts. Around the World in a Salad Bowl; COOKING CUES:; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Sep 21, 1961; pg. C16, 1 pgs ("...along with colorful concoctions such as Ham Pops, Tipsy Cake, Texas Toast and Dulcet Cream." In RECIPES OF THE OLD SOUTH by Martha Meade.) --------------------------------------------------------------- SHRIMPBURGER Matt Lee and Ted Lee did a "shrimpburger" story on their native South Carolina for the NEW YORK TIMES, so I just wanted to check the databases. For their 2001 article, see: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20A11F73F540C728FDDA90994D9404 482 The latest DARE has no entry for "shrimp burger." OED has--well, it doesn't have it, either. See the ADS-L archives, where there's a very good Clementine Paddleford article from 1952. It states that the "shrimp burger" is from Florida, not the Carolinas. I found that cite when going through her columns the old-fashioned way, of hard work. Display Ad 175 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Jun 16, 1977; pg. E20, 1 pgs Display Ad 195 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; May 19, 1977; pg. F22, 1 pgs Display Ad 186 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 26, 1976; pg. G6, 1 pgs Display Ad 167 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 25, 1976; pg. G2, 1 pgs Display Ad 174 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 11, 1976; pg. F5, 1 pgs Display Ad 178 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 11, 1976; pg. F6, 1 pgs News of Food; Abundant Supply of Chestnuts From Italy Cuts Price to 19 Cents, a Two-Year Low; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 8, 1952; pg. 32, 1 pgs ("Shrimp, the shell fish that Americans are npw said to consume in larger quantity than any other variety, are being presented in a new form, the Shrimpburger, product of the Shrimp Corporation of America.") --------------------------------------------------------------- FRUIT PIZZA The full text LOS ANGELES TIMES and CHICAGO TRIBUNE should have some interesting pizza articles, but I just checked the current databases for this and the following. From Creative Chefs, Odd Couples That Can Make Magic; Mix sweetness and spice? If it works, well, why not?; By BRYAN MILLER; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 2, 1994; pg. C1, 2 pgs Rising Above It All; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 6, 1986; pg. E1, 1 pgs ("Lisa Yockelson's Fruit Pizza" recipe.) New Year's Indulgences; New Year's Indulgences; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 28, 1983; pg. E1, 2 pgs ("1983 has been the Year of the Pizza: goat cheese pizza, spinach pizza, pizza with tomatoes fresh or died or not at all usher out the end of the year with an end-of-the meal pizza, a fruit pizza.") --------------------------------------------------------------- SPINACH PIZZA Again, I expect the LOS ANGELES TIMES and CHICAGO TRIBUNE to beat these. From the south to the north, exploring an old Chicago dream; B. F.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 16, 1995; pg. XX9, 1 pgs WHAT'S DOING IN Chicago; By ISABEL WILKERSON; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 1, 1994; pg. XX8, 1 pgs It's the time of year when cookie lovers can take heart All about fish, in 28 illustrated pages Yes, Virginia is for lovers (of food).; Florence Fabricant; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 7, 1990; pg. C7, 1 pgs THE REVIEWS; Carryout \; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 23, 1986; pg. SM12, 27 pgs New Year's Indulgences; New Year's Indulgences; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Dec 28, 1983; pg. E1, 2 pgs (Same story as above--ed.) They Take Pride in the City That Works; Chicago; By Sandra Bailey; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Mar 27, 1983; pg. E1, 2 pgs New toppings -- sometimes without tomatoes -- new crusts and even new shapes.; The Pizza Trend in America: Upward and Onward; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 16, 1983; pg. C1, 2 pgs ("Pizzapiazza Deep Dish Spinach Pizza" recipe.) --------------------------------------------------------------- STEAK SAUCE Want to know how bad the OED is on food? Really want to know? Gather round. Get your online OED out and type in "steak sauce." There's one hit for "steak sauce." "Steak sauce" is mentioned in an entry posted just last month, in March 2003. It's under "Weblog." Just pitiful. . Soybean Dinner From Soup to Nuts; By Given Riggle; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 25, 1943; pg. S8, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 15, 1943; pg. 5, 1 pgs Ringside Table; With Mary Harris; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 19, 1942; pg. 19, 1 pgs Ringside Table; With Mary Harris; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 20, 1942; pg. 17, 1 pgs VICTUALS AND VITAMINS; By KILEY TAYLOR; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 13, 1940; pg. 111, 1 pgs A 'GOLDEN CITY' AWAITS EXPOSITION HOSTS; SAN FRANCISCO DRESSES UP FOR VISITORS TO HER BIG FAIR; By TOM WHITE, Californians, Inc., Tom White, Yosemite National Park, and Charles Phelps Cushing; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 22, 1939; pg. 127, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Sep 9, 1936; pg. X7, 1 pgs Display Ad 20 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Apr 29, 1936; pg. 18, 1 pgs Beef Extract Held to Add Zest to Food; Makes Even Ordinary Dish Fit Palate of the Epicure.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 8, 1936; pg. 11, 1 pgs: _Steak Sauce._ 2 tablespoons butter 1/2 tablespoon liquid beef extract 1/2 tablespoon chopped parsley Soften the butter, add the beef extract and chopped parsley and allow to melt on broiled chops or steaks. Word Mark THE A1 INTERNATIONAL SAUCE Goods and Services IC 029. US 046. G & S: SAUCES [ OR RELISHES ] FOR USE WITH FOOD. FIRST USE: 18620000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1862000 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 261101 Serial Number 70026824 Filing Date June 1, 1895 Registration Number 0026824 Registration Date July 16, 1895 Owner (REGISTRANT) BRAND & CO. DENCE, THOMAS AND MASON, JOHN JAMES, BOTH CITIZENS OF ENGLAND FIRM ENGLAND 11 LITTLE STANHOPE ST., LONDON ENGLAND(LAST LISTED OWNER) DEL MONTE CORPORATION CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF NEW YORK ONE MARKET PLAZA SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA 94105 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 12C. SECT 15. Renewal 4TH RENEWAL 19851015 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE --------------------------------------------------------------- GRILLING SAUCE Not in OED. You're shocked. Why call your product a "steak sauce" when, with "grilling sauce," you can include chicken and fish? Display Ad 32 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 21, 1997; pg. C8, 1 pgs Display Ad 28 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 22, 1996; pg. C8, 1 pgs Fancy This, Fancy That; Trade show tidbits, from oils to ostrich. Fancy This, Fancy That: Tidbits at an Exposition ; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 12, 1995; pg. C1, 2 pgs Display Ad 45 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jun 29, 1994; pg. C24, 1 pgs Cranberry Ketchup And Other Surprises; FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 10, 1991; pg. C6, 1 pgs Summer Menus: Light Soup Heavy Reliance on the Grill; THE PURPOSEFUL COOK; By JACQUES PEPIN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jul 10, 1991; pg. C1, 2 pgs Tips for Barbecuing and Sauces to Go With Them; By FLORENCE FABRICANT; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 23, 1982; pg. 582, 1 pgs ("Yogurt Marinade and Grilling Sauce" recipe.) Naturally; By Sharon Cadwallader; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 14, 1980; pg. E16, 1 pgs Typed DrawingWord Mark ADOLPH'S KITCHEN GRILLING SAUCE Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: BARBECUE SAUCE. FIRST USE: 19780117. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19780117 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73159198 Filing Date February 21, 1978 Registration Number 1116147 Registration Date April 3, 1979 Owner (REGISTRANT) ADOLPH'S LTD. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 33 BENEDICT PLACE GREENWICH CONNECTICUT 06830 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 0979551;1064024;1081948;AND OTHERS Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "GRILLING SAUCE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date October 10, 1985 Typed DrawingWord Mark SAN-J SJ GRILLING SAUCE Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: seasoning sauces. FIRST USE: 19950400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950400 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74611962 Filing Date December 15, 1994 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition October 10, 1995 Registration Number 2072246 Registration Date June 17, 1997 Owner (REGISTRANT) San-J International, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 2880 Sprouse Drive Richmond VIRGINIA 23231 Attorney of Record Anthony F. Vittone Prior Registrations 1615947 Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "GRILLING SAUCE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 14:12:57 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:12:57 EDT Subject: Egg Timer (1882) and American Periodical Series Message-ID: OED has 1884 for "egg timer." Again, some caution should be used, as the product didn't always go by this name. 300 YEARS FO KITCHEN COLLECTIBLES new and greatly expanded third edition by Linda Campbell Franklin Florence, Alabama: Books Americana 1991 Pg. 311: V-5. _Egg Timers._ At first glance, these appear identical. Both are obviously plaid, probably Mauchlin ware. (L) Called an "egg glass," in "Scotch Wood," glass bulb. >From 1870s-80s F. A. Walker catalog. V-7. _Egg timers._ Also called in latter years "telephone timers," to hang on kitchen wall. V-9. _Egg timer._ This was found in the 2/1882 _American Agriculturist_. "A short while ago we (the editor) visited Messrs. Baldwin & Co., Murray Street (NYC), for novelties. Among other things...is the Signal Egg-timer. In this the sand-glass is suspended in a frame;...and when sufficient sand has run into the lower part of the glass, its weight turns the glass and the hammer, shown at the top, falls down and strikes the bell below, informing the cook that the time is up. Below is a wedge-shaped counterpoise; by moving this, the alarm will be given at the end of two, three, or four minutes." _$45.00-$65.00_ AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES--The AMERICAN AGRICULTURIST is in the AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES, but I didn't see this citation. Why? ProQuest hasn't finished APS ONLINE, that's why. In the six months since I've been using it, I haven't noticed many additions. Still no PUCK. Still no SPIRIT OF THE TIMES. Tremendous, essential American periodicals of the nineteenth century. An invaluable record of American fruits and vegetables. So, a few weeks ago, I e-mailed ProQuest, telling them how wonderful the product is, and asking when it would be finished. The question was not a stumper. No one has replied. From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Sun Apr 27 14:29:08 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:29:08 -0400 Subject: "I Scream for Ice Cream" Song In-Reply-To: <17a.19db36b5.2bdd3f69@aol.com> Message-ID: Billy Moll published a song in 1927 entitled "I Scream, You Scream, We All Scream for Ice Cream." I know there have been a lot of postings on ADS-L in the past about "I scream" and "ice cream," but can Barry Popik or George Thompson or someone clarify for me whether this song was the origin of the phrase in its title (as opposed to collocations of "I scream" and "ice cream" that are not specifically that phrase). Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Sun Apr 27 21:37:44 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:37:44 EDT Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another mailing list: Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a librarian & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while before ending up in Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume florilegium (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European countries). One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) Auteur: Gruterus , Janus Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. Syri ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, item Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius Jaar: 1610 - Jim Landau From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Sun Apr 27 21:50:33 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:50:33 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: Interesting. But there is a subtle, if strident, difference. A garden without grass is a good, well-kept garden without weeds; there is a relationship between garden and grass, if a negative one. A fish without a bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is another matter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James A. Landau" To: Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "James A. Landau" > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > mailing list: > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a librarian > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while before > ending up in > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume florilegium > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > countries). > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. Syri > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, item > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > Jaar: 1610 > > > - Jim Landau > From RASpears.pipo at XEMAPS.COM Sun Apr 27 22:19:14 2003 From: RASpears.pipo at XEMAPS.COM (Richard A. Spears) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:19:14 -0500 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: Except it's British where garden = (American) yard. Grass is great in yards. RAS > > Interesting. But there is a subtle, if strident, difference. A garden > without grass is a good, well-kept garden without weeds; there is a > relationship between garden and grass, if a negative one. A fish without a > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is > another matter. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. Landau" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > header ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > ----- > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > > mailing list: > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a > librarian > > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while > before > > ending up in > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume > florilegium > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > > countries). > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. > Syri > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, > item > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Sun Apr 27 22:56:29 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:56:29 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: Aha! Then that makes the two completely opposite in meaning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Spears" To: Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 6:19 PM Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "Richard A. Spears" > Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > Except it's British where garden = (American) yard. > Grass is great in yards. > > RAS > > > > > > > > Interesting. But there is a subtle, if strident, > difference. A garden > > without grass is a good, well-kept garden without weeds; > there is a > > relationship between garden and grass, if a negative one. > A fish without a > > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should > be. A fish has no > > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, > but the difference > > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden > with grass is > > another matter. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "James A. Landau" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > > header ----------------------- > > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > ----- > > > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern > proverb on another > > > mailing list: > > > > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting > character: a > > librarian > > > & philologist, he lived in exile in > [Elizabethan ]England for a while > > before > > > ending up in > > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a > 3-volume > > florilegium > > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from > various European > > > countries). > > > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without > a man is like a > > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely > to find this as > > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac > editum; necnon P. > > Syri > > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae > paroemiaeque Graecorum, > > item > > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, > Hispanica > > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > > > From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 00:34:06 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:34:06 -0400 Subject: Mixed Nuts(1880); Steak Sauce(1902); Pink Vodka Sauce(1988); Stone Soup Message-ID: MIXED NUTS Of interested to the peanut and cashew people out there, plus assorted crazies. Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 13, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 7, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 6, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 27, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 4 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 24, 1880; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("6 lbs. Choice Mixed Nuts (all new) for...$1.00") --------------------------------------------------------------- STEAK SAUCE 20 July 1902, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 28: Harvey Sauce...............29c C. & B. Beef Steak Sauce...27c --------------------------------------------------------------- PINK VODKA SAUCE Google has 664 hits for "pink vodka sauce." It's served with penne pasta. Not many hits in ProQuest, though. Los Angeles and Chicago surely have earlier. Personal-Size Pizza in Briarcliff Manor; By M.H. REED, BRIARCLIFF MANOR; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 21, 1999; pg. 646, 1 pgs A Song in the Air, and Pizza on the Menu; WENDY GINSBERG; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 20, 1998; pg. NJ26, 1 pgs Princeton: A Wilsonian Reminder; By ANNE SEMMES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Feb 28, 1988; pg. 692, 1 pgs --------------------------------------------------------------- STONE SOUP Not in OED. There are 53,700 "stone soup" hits on Google. It's perhaps more a culinary yarn than an actual soup, but it gets cited and offered on (ironic?) menus somewhat often. It has a proverbial meaning that should be recorded by OED. 18 May 1872, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 2: Like the Frenchman's stone soup, the stones didn't cost much, but the vermicelli and other ingredients did. He could make stone soup cost as much as turtle soup. 29 March 1896, BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE, pg. 23: When P. I. Sceysmah, whom, it may be explained, his fellow citizens esteemed to be stingier than stone soup,... TRY THIS ON YOUR NEXT MENU.; "Synthetic Soup" Eliminates Meat From the First Dinner Course.; From the Cleveland Plain Dealer.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 9, 1917; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("They insisted upon tasting the 'stone soup,' and pronounced it good.") (GOOGLE GROUPS) From: J&J (skiea3b at earthlink.net) Subject: OT-Stone Soup View: Complete Thread (24 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.arts.mystery Date: 2000-11-19 15:01:33 PST Either posts just are not showing up on my server or everyone has gone away for the weekend. I'm bored and... It's cold outside. I have a stone. I'm going to make some soup. Now, this soup will be good with just this tasty stone. But it would be even better if I had a little something more to put in it. Anyone? judi THE STONE SOUP STORY Once upon a time, somewhere in Eastern Europe, there was a great famine. People jealously hoarded whatever food they could find, hiding it even from their friends and neighbors. One day a peddler drove his wagon into a village, sold a few of his wares and began asking questions as if he planned to stay for the night. "There's not a bite to eat in the whole province" he was told. "Better keep moving on." "Oh, I have everything I need" he said. "In fact I was thinking of making some stone soup to share with all of you." He pulled a huge iron cauldron from his wagon, filled it with water and built a fire under it. Then, with great ceremony, he drew an ordinary looking stone from a velvet bag and dropped it into the water. By now, hearing the rumor of food, most of the villagers had come to the square or watched from their doorways and windows. As the peddler sniffed the 'broth' and licked his lips in anticipation, hunger began to overcome their skepticism. "Ahh," the peddler said to himself rather loudly, "I do like a tasty stone soup. Of course stone soup with cabbage, now that's hard to beat." Soon a villager approached hesitantly holding a cabbage he'd retrieved from its hiding place and added it to the pot. "Capital!" cried the peddler. "You know, I once had stone soup with cabbage and a bit of salt beef as well and it was fit for a king." The village butcher managed to find some salt beef...and so it went, through potatos, onions, carrots, mushrooms, barley and so on, until there was indeed a delicious meal for all. The villagers offered the peddler a great deal of money for the magic stone but he refused to sell it and travelled on the next day. And from that time on, long after the famine had ended, the villagers reminisced about the finest soup they'd ever had. --Traditional Folklore (TRADEMARKS) 1 76487571 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 2 76075846 2596936 STONE SOUP SEMINARS TARR LIVE 3 75871012 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 4 75719649 2474962 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 5 75615141 2405264 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 6 75536220 2261197 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 7 75427208 STONE SOUP TARR DEAD 8 75203718 STONE SOUP FOR THE SOUL TARR DEAD 9 75074165 2078127 STONE SOUP TARR LIVE 10 74302603 STONE SOUP TARR DEAD 11 74240005 THE STONE SOUP COOKBOOK FOR HARD TIMES TARR DEAD 12 74074356 STONESOUP TARR DEAD 13 73332152 1219952 STONE SOUP: THE NEIGHBORHOOD PARTNERSHIP REPORT TARR LIVE From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 01:03:42 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:03:42 -0400 Subject: Maine Potato Candy (1994) Message-ID: http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/bldes133.htm http://www.thefunplace.com/recipes/00337.html http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22potato+candy%22+and+Maine&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=00bf01c2ff73%248a7a7bc0%24c993520c%40att.net&rnum=2 Not a single hit in the NEW YORK TIMES or WASHINGTON POST? These are from the Dow Jones news database. LIFESTYLE / FOOD POTATO POWER HOLD THE BUTTER AND FORGET THOSE HALF-BAKED NOTIONS By Rosemary Black, Food Editor 11/13/1985 The Record, Northern New Jersey b01 (...) Potatoes can be used in desserts for results as gratifying as a moist, rich chocolate potato cake; light, sugar-dusted potato doughnuts; and jelly-topped, currant-studded potato tarts. One specialty in the South, potato candy, combines mashed potatoes with confectioners' sugar, peanut butter, and vanilla extract. Katie's Homemade Hand-Dipped Chocolates - Maine Potato Candy; Homemade Hand-Dipped Chocolates - Cobscook Camp Coffee Cremes; Homemade Hand-Dipped Chocolates - Maine Black Bear Paws MANUFACTURER: Katie's CATEGORY: Chocolate Candies 03/28/1994 Product Alert Market Intelligence Service, Ltd Maine Potato Candy, Cobscook Camp Coffee Cremes and Maine Black Bear Paws are three Homemade, Hand-Dipped Chocolates marketed under the Katie's brand name. Using only the freshest ingredients, each batch is said to be made from scratch assuring customers "gourmet quality, genuinely homemade chocolates." Katie's of Robbinston, ME, sells these products in 8 oz. boxes with window displays for viewing the contents. To check the availability and cost of purchasing a sample of this product contact: Marketing Intelligence Service, Ltd., (716) 374-6326. The County Fair Cookbook; Yankee Johnnycakes, Tater Pigs, Shoofly Pie, and 200 More Recipes From America's Best Country Cooks._(book reviews) 06/27/1994 Publishers Weekly 72 Lyn Stallworth and Rod Kennedy Jr. Hyperion, $27.95 (368p) ISBN 0-7868-60146 Stallworth and Kennedy, coauthors of The Brooklyn Cookbook, here survey rural America and Canada for unassumingly colorful regional foods associated with county fairs. That means Ethel Waddle's cream cheese pound cake is served up in Springfield, Ohio's Clark County Fair; apricot butter at the Big Fresno Fair in Fresno, Calif.; pickles in St. Paul, Minn., at the Minnesota State Fair; and, unlikely though it may sound, potato candy at Presque Isle's Northern Maine Fair. Food Two unusual recipes a hit with friends 02/08/2001 The Baton Rouge Advocate 4-F Jane Williams, an Advocate switchboard operator, loves to make unusual recipes. Two of her recent discoveries are sweets recipes for Maine Potato Candy and Beer Cake. Williams, a diabetic, can't eat lots of sweets so her friends, co-workers and family have enjoyed eating generous amounts of these two dishes. They rave about the candy, she says. The candy tastes similar to a chocolate-covered coconut candy bar. The Beer Cake is a moist dark spice cake. Here are the recipes: MAINE POTATO CANDY 4cups confectioners' sugar 4cups flaked coconut 3/4cup cold, plain potatoes, mashed (do not use leftover mashed potatoes made with milk or butter) 1 1/2tsps. vanilla extract 1/2tsp. salt1lb. dark candy coating 1cup semisweet chocolate chips 1.In a large bowl, combine the first five ingredients.2.Line a 9-inch square pan with foil; butter the foil. Spread coconut mixture into pan. Cover and chill overnight.3.Cut into 2x1-inch rectangles. Cover and freeze.4.In a microwave or double boiler, melt candy coating and chocolate chips. Dip bars in melted coating and chocolate chips; place on waxed paper to harden. Store in an airtight container.Makes 2 pounds. Taste of Home magazine BEER CAKE 2cups brown sugar 2cups dates, chopped 2eggs 1cup solid shortening 1tsp. cinnamon 1/2tsp. allspice 1/2tsp. ground cloves 3cups flour 2cups beer 2tsps. baking soda 1/2tsp. salt 1.Cream sugar and shortening; add eggs one at a time, beating well after each.2.Sift flour, salt, baking soda and spices, add to creamed mixture alternately with beer.3.Pour batter into greased and floured tube pan. Bake at 350 degrees for 1 hour and 15 minutes. Test for doneness. "Pots, Pans and Pioneers" (GOOGLE GROUPS) From: di2 at delphi.com (DI2 at DELPHI.COM@racebbs.com) Subject: Re: REQUEST: Potato Candy View: Complete Thread (8 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking Date: 1994-11-04 11:35:57 PST Here are a few more potato candy recipes. In Maine, we made these without the cinnamon, spread the mix in a pan and refrigerated, cut in squares and dipped them in melted chocolate-parafin mixture. Called them Needhams. Yummy! Irish Potato Candy 1/4 lb softened sweet butter 1 lb. confectioner's sugar 1/2 large bag of coconut 1 Tablespoon vanilla 3 Tablespoons milk cinnamon Mix all the ingredients together except for the cinnamon. Roll into balls. Refrigerate for 1 hour. Shake balls in a baggie with a little cinnamon. Store in a covered container in the refrigerator (...) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 03:35:04 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:35:04 -0400 Subject: Specialty Sandwich(1949); Signature Sandwich(1976); Multipot(1984) Message-ID: OT: DATABASES I sent my American Periodical Series query to the ProQuest Historical Newspapers guy. He's not the right ProQuest guy, but he answered me right away and forwarded my message to someone else at the company. I should have an answer about APS ONLINE soon. I checked at Columbia just now, and its "ProQuest Historical Newspapers" has the NEW YORK TIMES, WALL STREET JOURNAL, and now WASHINGTON POST and CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR. Since NYU doesn't have APS ONLINE or ACCESSIBLE ARCHIVES or LITERATURE ONLINE, Columbia is my library of choice. The New York Public Library has added HERITAGE QUEST (from ProQuest/Chadwyck-Healey, for the genealogy buffs). It has some strange stuff on it, such as Scudder Middleton's WINING AND DINING IN NEW YORK (1938) that I'd looked at. H.Q. has census records. The NYPL can't afford DOW JONES/FACTIVA and has dropped it along with other databases, such as NORTH AMERICAN WOMEN'S LETTERS AND DIARIES. There's little reason or pleasure to go to the NYPL anymore. The databases aren't the best, worse than both university libraries. All the books are offsite in New Jersey--if they can locate books at all. It's closed on Sunday and Monday, and the remaining hours are crummy, too. I used to resent the constant photo-taking and tour groups passing through, but they can have the NYPL. I don't need it anymore. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SPECIALTY SANDWICH I ran "specialty sandwich" and "signature sandwich" through the databases. Classified Ad 17 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 8, 1965; pg. 91, 1 pgs Eating-Out Boom Tied to Proprietors' Ingenuity at 'Fixing Up'; Take-Home Meals Styled To Satisfy TV Viewers; By Bernice Stevens Decker Special to The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; May 3, 1957; pg. 20, 1 pgs Display Ad 120 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 28, 1949; pg. S7, 1 pgs Display Ad 41 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 23, 1949; pg. 46, 1 pgs ("BOARDWALK specialty sandwich shoppe...") ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SIGNATURE SANDWICH A Quaint Village Doesn't Have to Love a Vacationing President to Feed Him; NEW YORK STATE; By JODI WILGOREN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Aug 22, 1999; pg. 35, 2 pgs Manhattan has joined the national trend, and competition has raised rents.; Commercial Property/Coffee Bars; By CLAUDIA H. DEUTSCH; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 6, 1994; pg. R1, 2 pgs Using Blimpie As a Base; Thinking Big: Using Blimpie As a Base; By William Rice; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Aug 5, 1976; pg. F1, 2 pgs ("The American Cafe, the signature sandwich, is roast beef served on a fresh croissant.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------- MULTIPOT This is sold at Williams-Sonoma. It's the matreshka doll of cookery. Here's a trademark. Word Mark MULTIPOT Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 011. US 021. G & S: Electric Cookers for Domestic Use. FIRST USE: 19840911. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19840911 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73505343 Filing Date October 24, 1984 Published for Opposition March 26, 1985 Registration Number 1339102 Registration Date June 4, 1985 Owner (REGISTRANT) Meyer Corporation, U.S. CORPORATION DELAWARE 4300 W. Brown Deer Rd. Milwaukee WISCONSIN 53223 Attorney of Record Allan B. Wheeler Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date November 22, 1991 -------------------------------------------------------------- ESCARGOT PAN, TONGS, FORK I'll throw in some snails at the end of this post. Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Mar 21, 1963; pg. A2, 1 pgs ("The Escargot pan (1.00), the Escargot tongs (1.69), the Escargot fork (.89)..." at the Old Georgia Coffee House.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 04:53:23 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:53:23 -0400 Subject: Quick-and-Dirty (1910); Pulled Candy (1890); Pudding Time (1835) Message-ID: QUICK_AND_DIRTY DARE has 1942's Berrey-Van den Bark work for "quick-and-dirty," a "greasy spoon." Display Ad 3 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 6, 1943; pg. 4, 1 pgs The Post Impressionist; On The Hoof; STRICKLAND GILLILAN.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 13, 1939; pg. 14, 1 pgs Fair Enough; Breaking Down Morale; By Westbrook Pegler; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Oct 7, 1939; pg. 9, 1 pgs No End Of Books; Sketches and Tales by John O'Hara, Our O. Henry Decked Out With All Modern Improvements.; By Theodore Hall.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Feb 21, 1935; pg. 9, 1 pgs HUNGRY, HIRED, JAILED, FIRED; Eleven-Year-old Hobo Travels 1,000 Miles Before He Is Caught.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jul 31, 1910; pg. ES4, 1 pgs ("Written in epigrammatic style and relating realistically the whole gamut of tramp life experience, from eating 'hand-out' chicken dinners to being a dishwasher in a 'quick-and-dirty' restaurant, Joseph Taylor, aged 11 years. formerly of Braddock, but now of nowhere and everywhere, has contributed a masterpiece to American literature of youth." Was THE DIMINUTIVE DIARY OF THE BOY HOBO published and read by the HDAS?--ed.). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PULLED CANDY DARE has this from 1965? Why is there such a time difference from "candy pull" to "pulled candy"? Scientific American (1845-1908), New York; Nov 21, 1908; Vol. Vol. XCIX., Iss. 0 Of General Interest.; pg. 361, 1 pgs ("This process is designed to impart to pulled candy a peculiar consistency...") Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 17, 1902; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 3 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 11, 1901; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 9, 1900; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 23, 1900; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 19 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 23, 1900; pg. 5, 1 pgs Display Ad 6 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Mar 9, 1900; pg. 4, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Jan 5, 1900; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Cocoanut Puff--just freshly grated cocoanut wrapped in jackets of pulled candy.") CLARA MORRIS IN 1862; Her Joys and Sorrows in Ohio When but Twelve Years Old.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 16, 1890; pg. 10, 1 pgs ("Went to Mr. Henry's and pulled candy.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------- PUDDING TIME DARE has an 1834 citation, from a work in 1839. July, 1835 THE LADY'S BOOK Philadelphia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Volume XI Page 17 (...) "I shud" - was pronounced with emphatic brevity; and the neck of the unhappy biped was twisted every way but that which fashion or custom prescribes and calls the way. Maria guessed as much; and I admired the strong good sense and presence of mind which prevented her from fretting, or standing on trifles in such an emergency. She was like Napoleon giving his commands to the surgeon accoucheur of Marie Louise. "Treat my golden pheasant as if it were but an ordinary barn-door fowl," Mrs. Roberts's silence seemed to say. "And never fear," replied Biddy," I'll have him in in << pudding-time>> , I warrant me - the pisant and the sowles, ma'am first - a'n't that it?" From t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA Mon Apr 28 03:34:10 2003 From: t.paikeday at SYMPATICO.CA (Thomas M. Paikeday) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:34:10 -0400 Subject: probable and suspect cases Message-ID: I was wondering whether if I cough in public I am a suspect or probable case of SARS. Reports like the following are heard in the media all day: "As of 14 April 2003, Health Canada has received reports of approximately 287 cases of SARS (103 probable and 184 suspect cases) in Canada. ... " Everyone knows the meaning of the two words in isolation, but in this specific context, how does the CDC or the doctors distinguish between the two? Does one become a probable case first and then a suspect if more symptoms are manifested or is it the other way around? Or are suspect and probable cases free-standing entities? (I forgot to ask my doctor when I saw him last. Anyone got any idea?) This is probably a safe conjecture, namely, if you returned to the U.S. from Toronto, you are a probable case, but if you cough while admitting it, you are a suspect. Just thinking aloud after some googling! T.M.P. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 05:24:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 01:24:55 -0400 Subject: Raw-Fried Potatoes (1888, 1943) Message-ID: Last DARE food antedating tonight. The latest DARE has 1948 for "raw-fried potatoes." There is a large gap in these two cites. Display Ad 6 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 15, 1943; pg. 7, 1 pgs ("Raw-Fried Potatoes: Thinly slice peeled potatoes crosswise and pan-fry in generous amount of shortening in covered frying pan" in Safeway ad.) GEN. BENJ. F. BUTLER'S APPETITE.; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Jan 1, 1888; pg. 11, 1 pgs ("I remember the first time he came here he ordered two porterhouse steaks, a dozen fried eggs, with fried onions, raw fried potatoes and pancakes to suit.") From rtroike at U.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Apr 28 08:47:00 2003 From: rtroike at U.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudolph C Troike) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 01:47:00 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: Awhile back I accidentally happened to catch a segment of an animal program on TV while channel-surfing, and was surprised to hear the narrator, who sounded possibly like a New Zealander, pronounce both "death" and "dead" with /iy/, the vowel of "see". I hadn't heard this before, and wonder if anyone might be familiar with the program (which seemed to be a "regular" on the channel) or would know otherwise where this pronunciation is current. (It's not surprising in itself, given the fate of other "ea" words, and the alternation in "deaf", but I had not heard it before.) Thanks, Rudy From preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU Mon Apr 28 11:33:10 2003 From: preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU (Dennis R. Preston) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:33:10 -0400 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Rudy, In NZ English all /E/ vowels (the vowel of "bet") raise to /I/ (the vowel of "hit"), not just the ones before nasals, like in Standard American English. It was cool to hear "Dennis" pronounced correctly while I was there, but puzzling to hear someone ask if I was "riddy" (i.e., "ready"). The /I/ is relatively tenser than ours and could leave you thinking you heard an /iy/. dInIs >Awhile back I accidentally happened to catch a segment of an animal >program on TV while channel-surfing, and was surprised to hear the >narrator, who sounded possibly like a New Zealander, pronounce both >"death" and "dead" with /iy/, the vowel of "see". I hadn't heard this >before, and wonder if anyone might be familiar with the program (which >seemed to be a "regular" on the channel) or would know otherwise where >this pronunciation is current. (It's not surprising in itself, given the >fate of other "ea" words, and the alternation in "deaf", but I had not >heard it before.) > > Thanks, > > Rudy -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM Mon Apr 28 13:51:59 2003 From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM (sagehen) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:51:59 -0400 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: D.L. Sayers, somewhere among her books and stories featuring Peter Death Bredon Wimsey, says Death in this case is pronounced "deeth." I don't know how common a proper name it is in the UK. A. Murie From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Mon Apr 28 14:41:14 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb In-Reply-To: <005a01c30d07$078c1920$6401a8c0@BADGIRL> Message-ID: I happened to attend a conference on activism a couple of years ago at which Gloria Steinem was the keynote speaker. In the course of her talk, she stated quite emphatically (in what was pretty clearly a refutation of the notion she encouraged anti-male feelings) that she was not the coiner of "a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." I can't recall whether she identified the actual coiner the quotable quote, but I do remember her saying that it originated as a play upon the expression "God needs man like a fish needs a bicycle" (or perhaps it was the other way around -- I'm not sure). Joanne Despres Merriam-Webster, Inc. On 27 Apr 2003, at 17:50, Mary Jane wrote: A fish without a > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is > another matter. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. Landau" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > header ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > > mailing list: > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a > librarian > > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while > before > > ending up in > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume > florilegium > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > > countries). > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. > Syri > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, > item > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Mon Apr 28 14:41:14 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb In-Reply-To: <005a01c30d07$078c1920$6401a8c0@BADGIRL> Message-ID: On 27 Apr 2003, at 17:50, Mary Jane wrote: A fish without a > bicycle (coined by Gloria Steinem?) is, alas, as it should be. A fish has no > use for a bicycle, just as a garden has no use for grass, but the difference > is that you will never see a fish on a bicycle...a garden with grass is > another matter. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. Landau" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:37 PM > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail > header ----------------------- > > Sender: American Dialect Society > > Poster: "James A. Landau" > > Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > I found the following antecedent of a well-known modern proverb on another > > mailing list: > > > > > > Jan[us] Gruter[us] seems to have been an interesting character: a > librarian > > & philologist, he lived in exile in [Elizabethan ]England for a while > before > > ending up in > > Heidelberg, and produced (amongst many other things) a 3-volume > florilegium > > (in his case, a collection of proverbs and sayings from various European > > countries). > > > > One typical English proverb he quotes: "a woman without a man is like a > > garden without grass". Now, of course, we're more likely to find this as > > "...is like a fish without a bicycle". You choose! :-) > > > > > > Auteur: Gruterus , Janus > > Titel: Florilegium ethico-politicum nunquam antehac editum; necnon P. > Syri > > ac L. Senecae sententiae aureae; accedunt Gnomae paroemiaeque Graecorum, > item > > Proverbia Germanica, Belgica, Italica, Gallica, Hispanica > > Uitgave: Francofurti : Jonas Rhodius > > Jaar: 1610 > > > > > > - Jim Landau > > From dave at WILTON.NET Mon Apr 28 15:00:30 2003 From: dave at WILTON.NET (Dave Wilton) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:00:30 -0700 Subject: probable and suspect cases In-Reply-To: <006201c30d37$1686c800$a624e440@co611769a> Message-ID: > Everyone knows the meaning of the two words in isolation, but > in this specific context, how does the CDC or the doctors > distinguish between the two? Does one become a probable case > first and then a suspect if more symptoms are manifested or > is it the other way around? Or are suspect and probable cases > free-standing entities? (I forgot to ask my doctor when I saw > him last. Anyone got any idea?) A probable case is more likely to actually be the disease in question than a suspect case. In terms of SARS, the WHO definitions of "suspect case" and "probable case" are as follows: "Suspect case 1. A person presenting after 1 November 2002 with history of: - high fever (>38 ?C) AND - cough or breathing difficulty AND one or more of the following exposures during the 10 days prior to onset of symptoms: - close contact with a person who is a suspect or probable case of SARS; - history of travel, to an affected area - residing in an affected area "2. A person with an unexplained acute respiratory illness resulting in death after 1 November 2002, 1 but on whom no autopsy has been performed AND one or more of the following exposures during to 10 days prior to onset of symptoms: - close contact,2 with a person who is a suspect or probable case of SARS; - history of travel to an affected area - residing in an affected area "Probable case 1. A suspect case with radiographic evidence of infiltrates consistent with pneumonia or respiratory distress syndrome (RDS) on chest X-ray (CXR). 2. A suspect case with autopsy findings consistent with the pathology of RDS without an identifiable cause." From: http://www.who.int/csr/sars/casedefinition/en/ From vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET Mon Apr 28 15:11:46 2003 From: vidamorkunas at TELUS.NET (vida morkunas) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:11:46 -0700 Subject: probable and suspect cases In-Reply-To: <006201c30d37$1686c800$a624e440@co611769a> Message-ID: there's an article today about a foreign tourist who arrived in New York City early this month with a guidebook in hand and Knicks tickets in his pocket. But he did not use either because he also arrived with a suspected case of SARS and spent virtually his entire vacation involuntarily detained in a hospital. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/28/nyregion/28INFE.html?th the following excerpt may answer your question: However, there was no way for doctors to know with certainty whether the man had SARS or some other type of respiratory illness because there is no test for SARS. All that doctors can rely on is the definition of a SARS case. The C.D.C. in Atlanta has created two definitions. The one for a suspected SARS case does not include pneumonia. But the C.D.C. defines a probable SARS case as including pneumonia to comply with the World Health Organization's definition. The federal agency developed the broader classification because it does not want to miss any possible SARS case in this country. Vida. vidamorkunas at telus.net -----Original Message----- From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf Of Thomas M. Paikeday Sent: April 27, 2003 8:34 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: probable and suspect cases I was wondering whether if I cough in public I am a suspect or probable case of SARS. Reports like the following are heard in the media all day: "As of 14 April 2003, Health Canada has received reports of approximately 287 cases of SARS (103 probable and 184 suspect cases) in Canada. ... " Everyone knows the meaning of the two words in isolation, but in this specific context, how does the CDC or the doctors distinguish between the two? Does one become a probable case first and then a suspect if more symptoms are manifested or is it the other way around? Or are suspect and probable cases free-standing entities? (I forgot to ask my doctor when I saw him last. Anyone got any idea?) This is probably a safe conjecture, namely, if you returned to the U.S. from Toronto, you are a probable case, but if you cough while admitting it, you are a suspect. Just thinking aloud after some googling! T.M.P. From faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU Mon Apr 28 15:17:04 2003 From: faber at HASKINS.YALE.EDU (Alice Faber) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:17:04 -0400 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dennis R. Preston said: >>Rudy, > >In NZ English all /E/ vowels (the vowel of "bet") raise to /I/ (the >vowel of "hit"), not just the ones before nasals, like in Standard >American English. It was cool to hear "Dennis" pronounced correctly >while I was there, but puzzling to hear someone ask if I was "riddy" >(i.e., "ready"). > >The /I/ is relatively tenser than ours and could leave you thinking >you heard an /iy/. Indeed. When my sister visited New Zealand a few years back, she came back with two caricature pronunciations: [iy]xcellent and y[iy]s. -- ============================================================================= Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258 New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 16:05:30 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:05:30 -0400 Subject: Early American Newspapers & Evans Digital Message-ID: FYI, a response from the Readex people on Early American Newspapers and Evans Digital. Early American Newspapers is almost useless in microfilm form and without an index. You have to spend weeks and weeks and kill your eyes to find anything...The U.S. Congressional Serial Set is not a haven for "doughnuts" and "jonnycakes," so I'm not exactly pleased by their decision. --Barry Popik Subj: RE: Early American Newspapers in digital format? Date: 4/28/2003 10:46:52 AM Eastern Standard Time From: "Hornstra, Jim" To: "'Bapopik at aol.com'" Sent from the Internet (Details) Dear Mr. Popik, Management has not yet made a decision regarding a digital version of Early American Newspapers. However, following the highly favorable response to Evans Digital Edition (sixty-five institutions have chosen Evans Digital to date including Columbia University), management has decided that the next collection to be digitized will be the U.S. Congressional Serial Set (1817-1980), an important and enormous collection consisting of approximately 12 million pages. A description of the collection will be found at our web site at: http://www.readex.com/doccoll/serlset.html A demo of the Serial Set with a sample of 38 documents (some of which are incomplete) will be found at: http://infoweb.newsbank.com/?user=ncdserial When prompted please enter (case sensitive): username: ncdserial password: ncdset The Serial Set will be released in phases, beginning with the pre-Civil War Period, followed by the Civil War through the end of the 19th Century. Additional imprints from Evans Digital Edition are being released monthly, with completion scheduled for June 2004. As of the last update (March 2003), over 633,000 pages are available on-line. If you have any questions or need additional information, please contact me. Jim Hornstra Account Executive Readex Academic & Research Library Division NewsBank, Inc. (800) 762-8182 Fax: (239) 263-3004 jhornstra at newsbank.com Readex on the web: http://www.readex.com From self at TOWSE.COM Mon Apr 28 16:32:05 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:32:05 -0700 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: "Joanne M. Despres" wrote: > > I happened to attend a conference on activism a couple of > years ago at which Gloria Steinem was the keynote speaker. In the course > of her talk, she stated quite emphatically (in what was pretty > clearly a refutation of the notion she encouraged anti-male feelings) > that she was not the coiner of "a woman without a man is like a > fish without a bicycle." I can't recall whether she identified the > actual coiner the quotable quote, but I do remember her saying that > it originated as a play upon the expression "God needs man like a > fish needs a bicycle" (or perhaps it was the other way around -- I'm > not sure). "The letter below, from famed feminist Gloria Steinem, appeared in Time magazine sometime in September or October 2000. In your note on my new and happy marital partnership with David Bale, you credit me with the witticism 'A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.' In fact, Irina Dunn, a distinguished Australian educator, journalist and politician, coined the phrase back in 1970 when she was a student at the University of Sydney. She paraphrased the philosopher who said, "Man needs God like fish needs a bicycle." Dunn deserves credit for creating such a popular and durable spoof of the old idea that women need men more than vice versa." This site includes confirmation and explanation from Irina Dunn and another story of spontaneous and synchronous coinage. Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From Bapopik at AOL.COM Mon Apr 28 16:34:03 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:34:03 -0400 Subject: Windy City (7 October 1882) Message-ID: ACKNOWLEDGMENT: I would like to thank the New York Public Library, for its wise decision to reduce hours and stay closed on Mondays, and for some how losing all of its U.S. Department of Agriculture publications and once again making this trip to the Library of Congress necessary. --Barry Popik Yep, it's earlier in the Cincinnati Enquirer. But no matter what I find, always remember that "Windy City" was coined in 1893 during the World's Fair, just as the Chicago Historical Society says. 7 October 1882, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, pg. 2, col. 4: _OUCH!_ _Remarked the Chicagos Yesterday_ _Ya-ha! Yi Ki, Rip, Rah, Shouted the_ _Cincinnatis In Return._ _As They Fled Around the Bases, Greatly to_ _the Disgust of the Discomfited Leaguers._ _The Red-Legs--Rupped Goldsmith, the_ _White Legs Didn't White--Magnifi-_ _cent Fielding on Both Sides._ _We Will Try It Again To-day, and Will_ _Perhaps be Generous to the Chaps_ _From the Windy City--Per-_ _haps Not._ (...) All talk that the triumph was secured through the generosity of the chaps from the Windy City is buncombe of the worst sort. (...) From jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Mon Apr 28 16:35:09 2003 From: jdespres at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Joanne M. Despres) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:35:09 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1925 bytes Desc: not available URL: From missmj at SWITCHB.COM Mon Apr 28 16:44:10 2003 From: missmj at SWITCHB.COM (Mary Jane) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:44:10 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: a philosophical text > I was reading for my Honours year in English Literature > and Language in 1970. It was "A man needs God like a > fish needs a bicycle". [a question is begging....] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joanne M. Despres" To: Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > Sender: American Dialect Society > Poster: "Joanne M. Despres" > Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > 0100,0100,0100Here is an account of Gloria Steinem's phrase history excerpted > from > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3255/herstory.htm > > >
Times New RomanA bit of herstory: > the definitive word on the origin!
> > The letter below, from famed feminist Gloria Steinem, appeared > in Time magazine sometime in September or October 2000. > > leftIn your note on my new and happy marital partnership > with David Bale, you credit me with the witticism 'A > woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.' In fact, > Irina Dunn, a distinguished Australian educator, > journalist and politician, coined the phrase back in 1970 > when she was a student at the University of Sydney. She > paraphrased the philosopher who said, "Man needs God > like fish needs a bicycle." Dunn deserves credit for > creating such a popular and durable spoof of the old > idea that women need men more than vice versa. > > leftGloria Steinem > > Irina Dunn has confirmed this story, in an e-mail of January 28, > 2002: > > leftYes, indeed, I am the one Gloria referred to. I was > paraphrasing from a phrase I read in a philosophical text > I was reading for my Honours year in English Literature > and Language in 1970. It was "A man needs God like a > fish needs a bicycle". My inspiration arose from being > involved in the renascent women's movement at the time, > and from being a bit if a smart-arse. I scribbled the > phrase on the backs of two toilet doors, would you > believe, one at Sydney University where I was a student, > and the other at Soren's Wine Bar at Woolloomooloo, a > seedy suburb in south Sydney. The doors, I have to > add, were already favoured graffiti sites. > > > > From JMB at STRADLEY.COM Mon Apr 28 17:36:00 2003 From: JMB at STRADLEY.COM (Baker, John) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:36:00 -0400 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: The identity of the ungodly philosopher seems lost to, if not history, then at least Google. Here's the most detailed online account, from http://archives.emazing.com/archives/womanday/2001-06-21: >>In 1970, Irina Dunn was an Honors English student at the University of Sydney. In one of her favorite classes there, "From the 1870s to the 1920s," taught by Professor Catherine Runcie, Dunn read: "Man needs God (or religion) like a fish needs a bicycle." << Or perhaps not. Here's a rival account, from http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/unknown.htm: >>Man needs God like a fish needs a bicycle. -- Men's-room graffito in a Berkeley, California bar during the late 1960s, quoted by Robert Anton Wilson in Cosmic Trigger. This was later bastardized by feminists to read: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" or something along those lines.<< John Baker -----Original Message----- From: Mary Jane [mailto:missmj at SWITCHB.COM] Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:44 PM To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: "A woman without a man" proverb a philosophical text > I was reading for my Honours year in English Literature > and Language in 1970. It was "A man needs God like a > fish needs a bicycle". [a question is begging....] From self at TOWSE.COM Mon Apr 28 18:19:58 2003 From: self at TOWSE.COM (Towse) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:19:58 -0700 Subject: "A woman without a man" proverb Message-ID: "Baker, John" wrote: > > The identity of the ungodly philosopher seems lost to, if not history, then at least Google. Here's the most detailed online account, from http://archives.emazing.com/archives/womanday/2001-06-21: > > >>In 1970, Irina Dunn was an Honors English student at the University of Sydney. In one of her favorite classes there, "From the 1870s to the 1920s," taught by Professor Catherine Runcie, Dunn read: "Man needs God (or religion) like a fish needs a bicycle." << > > Or perhaps not. Here's a rival account, from http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/unknown.htm: > > >>Man needs God like a fish needs a bicycle. > -- Men's-room graffito in a Berkeley, California bar during the late 1960s, quoted by Robert Anton Wilson in Cosmic Trigger. This was later bastardized by feminists to read: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" or something along those lines.<< The references I've been finding are to a quote by Vique (whomsoever that may be) (who is called "Viques" in two places) -- "A man without a god is like a fish without a bicycle." alternatively stated as "A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle." search: man fish god|religion ... but where that quote came from or who Vique[s] is is a whole 'nother question. I am constantly reminded how "quotes" and "facts" can spread from Web site to Web site to Web site with little or no vetting by the webmeisters until they become common "knowledge." Sal -- Ye olde swarm of links: 3K+ useful links for writers, researchers and the terminally curious From slang at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK Mon Apr 28 18:40:58 2003 From: slang at BLUEYONDER.CO.UK (Jonathon Green) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:40:58 +0100 Subject: Fwd: newzak (how new?) Message-ID: In 1969 I was working on a London-based 'underground' newspaper called 'Friends' (formerly Rolling Stone UK before Jann Wenner pulled the plug - we were insufficiently respectful of rock stars - and, threatening a lawsuit, forbade us the name 'Friends of Rolling Stone'). We wrote the first issue in late November / early December 1969 and as News Editor I required a name to head up the news section: I came up with 'Newzak'. The paper appeared in late December or possibly very early January 1970. The heading lasted for the paper's life (I did not), which encompassed a couple of years of fortnightly issues. I was completely unaware of the Muggeridge use of a year or so earlier, although I was quite consciously parodying 'Muzak' (if the requisite mixture of sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll, plus the necessary 'revolution' can be seen as either parody or indeed news.) Jonathon Green From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Mon Apr 28 20:48:37 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:48:37 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: The short front vowels in Aus, NZ, and South African English are 'shifted,' but not always to the same thing. For example, Kiwis have a centralised /I/, sounding something like 'uh' to a North American or Aussie. Aussies, according to Kiwis, say 'ee' for /I/. So, the phrase 'fish and chips' is the shibboleth: feesh and cheeps in OZ and fush and chups in NZ. This also has given rise the the joke in OZ about the score of some sporting event: New Zealand sucks, Australia seven. In NZE there is also TRAP raising and no post-vocalic /r/ (yes, I know there is PV /r/ in some environments and dialects). The following anecdote illustrates the confusion that can arise when North Americans are hearing a Kiwi (from Gordon and Deverson _New Zealand English_ 1985 p.82: When the education specialist Ivan Illich was visiting New Zealand in 1979, he rang his friend's telephone number. The friend's daughter picked up the receiver and upon the request to speak to her fahter, told Mr. Illich "He's dead." Mr. Illich was surprised, but relieved, when his fried came to the phone. Of course, the girl was saying 'here's dad.' I did my dissertation on the formation and origins of southern hemisphere varieties of English. It was always fun to come across such anecdotes. Fritz Juengling >>> preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU 04/28/03 04:33AM >>> >Rudy, In NZ English all /E/ vowels (the vowel of "bet") raise to /I/ (the vowel of "hit"), not just the ones before nasals, like in Standard American English. It was cool to hear "Dennis" pronounced correctly while I was there, but puzzling to hear someone ask if I was "riddy" (i.e., "ready"). The /I/ is relatively tenser than ours and could leave you thinking you heard an /iy/. dInIs >Awhile back I accidentally happened to catch a segment of an animal >program on TV while channel-surfing, and was surprised to hear the >narrator, who sounded possibly like a New Zealander, pronounce both >"death" and "dead" with /iy/, the vowel of "see". I hadn't heard this >before, and wonder if anyone might be familiar with the program (which >seemed to be a "regular" on the channel) or would know otherwise where >this pronunciation is current. (It's not surprising in itself, given the >fate of other "ea" words, and the alternation in "deaf", but I had not >heard it before.) > > Thanks, > > Rudy -- Dennis R. Preston Professor of Linguistics Department of Linguistics & Germanic, Slavic, Asian & African Languages Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 e-mail: preston at msu.edu phone: (517) 353-9290 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 08:02:51 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 04:02:51 EDT Subject: Cincinnatta (1882); Windy City (September 11, 1882) Message-ID: Greetings from New York City, after four hours' sleep on the bus from the Library of Congress. I'll wade through my Dept. of Agriculture publications later. For now, I'll help out two cities. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- CINCINNATA DARE (vol. 1, pg. 2, under "-a" and not "Cincinnati") has 1884. It follows two entries on "Albana" and "Missoura." 5 April 1882, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, pg. 8, col. 2: _Unofficial Information._ (New York Sun.) Cincinnati people wish to hear the name pronounced "Cincin-nah-tee," not "Cincin-natta." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- WINDY CITY Earlier still. 11 September 1882, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, pg. 1, col. 2: _CHICAGO'S RECORD._ _Crimes of a Day In the Windy CIty._ From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 29 15:45:39 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:45:39 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: When I was growing up in Southern Illinois back in the middle ages, ie. during the '50s there used to be a joke pronunciation of the word deaf. Thus when someone might not understand what you had said you might reply, "Air you deef?" or "Is you deef?". It was probably a little bit archaic even at that time because I first remember hearing it from my grandfather who was born in 1888 but I also remember using it and occasionally hearing it from people who were of my grandfather's generation. I don't have any idea where it came from. Anyone know where it came from, comics, radio stars, hillbilly impersonators or whatever? Inquiring minds want to know. This brings up the problem with the last phrase I used. I have used it for years but have long since forgotten where it came from. Page Stephens From hpst at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 29 15:56:55 2003 From: hpst at EARTHLINK.NET (Page Stephens) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:56:55 -0700 Subject: Australian pronunciation Message-ID: About 35 years ago I met a man who was in the government of as I recall New South Wales who told me a story. At that point in time as I recall the Aussie government was trying to clean up, ie. to make Aussie pronunciation closer to American or whatever. As a result his grandchildren were taught in school to pronounce their abc's more closely to US pronunciation. Well he was an old fashioned Aussie who pronounced them the way he always had, and his grandchildren got a kick out of it. They would ask him to say the abc's, and he would say, I, by, sigh, die, eye, etc. and his grandchildren would roll on the floor laughing. Page Stephens From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 16:43:12 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:43:12 EDT Subject: Jalapa Chili Pepper (1904); American History Cookbook (2003) Message-ID: JALAPA CHILE PEPPER U. S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY--BULLETIN No. 97 SEEDS AND PLANTS IMPORTED DURING THE PERIOD FROM DECEMBER, 1903, TO DECEMBER, 1905 Washington: Government Printing Office 1907 This is a huge, excellent work, one of several that I copied yesterday. This is probably as close to "jalapeno" as I'll get this early: Pg. 64: 11639. CAPSICUM ANNUUM. _Pepper._ From Jalapa, Vera Cruz, Mexico. Received thru Mr. Frank M. Meyer at the Plant Introduction Garden at Chico, Cal., June, 1904. _Yellow Chili._ "A handsome pepper, much sold in the market in Jalapa, bright showy yellow, quite pungent in taste." (_Meyer._) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- THE AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK by Mark H. Zenger Westport, CT: Greenwood Press 459 pages, paperback 2003 This just arrived. The author is a 20-year restaurant critic for the BOSTON PHOENIX, author of the AMERICAN ETHNIC COOKBOOK FOR STUDENTS (2001) and HOLIDAYS OF THE WORLD COOKBOOK FOR STUDENTS, and associate editor of something called the OXFORD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FOOD AND DRINK (forthcoming). There are very few illustrations. The item is presented, then a brief history introduction, then the recipe. There's an interesting ANNOTATED SELECT BIBLIOGRAPHY and a CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF RECIPES to close the book. Overall, it's OK. I don't know how much new information it adds. It's revealing to me what it doesn't have. If you just wanted the last 100 years of American food, Jean Anderson's AMERICAN CENTURY COOKBOOK is much more attractive and comprehensive. The author's next work is the AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK REFERENCE COMPANION, which sounds like a much more worthwhile project. The information is presented by theme, somewhat chronologically. There is no state-by-state index. Some choices are just bizarre. "Hot Dog" is not wrong here--because it just isn't here. "Tomato Ketchup" is given in 1848. Why? "It's hard to add anything to _Pure Ketchup_, Andrew Smith's 1996 study of the development of ketchup, but here is a ketchup recipe it doesn't have..." It's not explained that Smith doesn't have it because he already lists plenty of ketchup recipes from the early 1800s. So what's the big deal with a ketchup recipe in 1848 (from GODEY'S LADY'S BOOK, something that Zanger doesn't realize is available online)? 1975 gave us "Chicano Convict Guacamole." 1968 gave us "My Not So Famous S-O-S." These are dishes (and the book is filled with them) I wouldn't really think about--more important than the hot dog? 1941 gave us "Eggs Ferrer"--not one Google hit! 1930 gave us "Ginger Ale Soda"--the history of "ginger ale" is not mentioned. "Spanish Rice" is listed in 1932--not our earliest. "Baked Beans" is in 1829 and "Hardtack" is 1860s and "Refrigerator Cookies" is in 1937 and "Banana Smoothie" in 1947--I guess he can be forgiven for not knowing my work. "Mint Julep" is listed in 1930 (?), and the history of the drink is not explained. Overall, a pedestrian collection of recipes from various American cookbooks. OK, but not exactly what the world's waiting for. From AAllan at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 17:00:11 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:00:11 EDT Subject: Entire American Speech now online Message-ID: Glorious news! Now every issue of American Speech, beginning with the very first one in 1925, is available online - to members of the American Dialect Society. There's lagniappe for your dues! Duke U Press has just sent a letter to ADS members explaining how to access all these issues. You begin by going to the American Speech web page: http://www.dukeupress.edu/americanspeech/ Now the instructions given in the letter don't exactly match what you actually have to do to get to the back issues. Maybe that will be changed, but for now, here's what you do: - Click on the link to Project Muse (which gives access to current issues) - and then, on that page, click on "Back issues available on JSTOR." That will take you to the JSTOR page, and just follow the instructions there. Many university libraries provide access to Muse and JSTOR. The great advantage for ADS members is that you can get personal access, regardless of whether your library subscribes, regardless of where you are. For example, in his travels around the world, Barry Popik can access the complete files of American Speech through AOL. (He's probably doing it already.) I have a shelf full of back issues of American Speech, inherited from my predecessor as ADS executive secretary, going back to the 1950s. No, I'm not ready to throw them in the trash yet. (Anybody have a need for them?) But I'll be going online from now on. After all, the online versions are completely searchable. What a great new age! And if you aren't an ADS member? Go to our website http://americandialect.org/ and click on "Become A Member" and on the page that brings up, "You can become a member here" and that will take you to the Duke U Page that makes you a member. Some bargain! - Allan Metcalf From AAllan at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 17:03:24 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:03:24 EDT Subject: American Speech online: postscript Message-ID: I should have mentioned that, in order to access Muse and JSTOR for back issues of American Speech, you do have to have a login and password. At the moment the login and password for both are the ones previously announced for Muse. If you're an ADS member and don't have the letter yet with the password, send me a private email and I'll let you know. - Allan Metcalf (AAllan at aol.com) ADS executive secretary From rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Apr 29 20:33:51 2003 From: rkmck at EARTHLINK.NET (Kim & Rima McKinzey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:33:51 -0700 Subject: Australian pronunciation In-Reply-To: <002701c30e67$f611fc20$f2609e40@m1r7o5> Message-ID: All this discussion re Oz pronunciation reminds me of the first time one of my Australian relatives came through the States. I was about 7 and the morning after this cousin arrived, he asked me where the "bison" was. I remember wondering if he thought all Americans had pet buffalo... (Of course he meant the sink (basin).) Rima From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 20:57:09 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:57:09 -0400 Subject: Carbo-Load (1983); Sugar-High (1985); CHEF'S COMPANION (2003) Message-ID: CARBO-LOAD Not in OED. Both this and the following item will probably be earlier (1970s) in the LOS ANGELES TIMES/CHICAGO TRIBUNE. When I get a 1970s date, then I'll check running magazines for "carbo-load." (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS) Carbo-Loading The Washington Post (1974-Current file); Washington, D.C.; Nov 6, 1983; By Marion Cromley Special to The Washington Post; Section: FOOD Start Page: H4 Page Count: 1 Text Word Count: 476 Document Type: article Source Type: HISTORICAL NEWSPAPER ISSN: 01908286 Abstract: CARBO-LOADING is a temporary diet-shift program born in the 1970s when researchers found that a pre-race diet heavy in carbohydrates could prolong a runner's endurance. Carbohydrates are stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen, the major fuel for muscle tissue. The trick is to get as much gly- cogen into the muscles as possible. (WORLDCAT) About: Free agents / (1); Apple, Max. (18) Title: Free agents / Author(s): Apple, Max. Publication: New York : Harper & Row, Edition: 1st ed. Year: 1984 Description: viii, 197 p. ; 22 cm. Language: English Contents: Walt and Will -- Bridging -- Small island republics -- The eighth day -- Child's play -- Stranger at the table -- Carbo-loading -- The American bakery -- Pizza time -- Free agents -- Momma's boy -- Business talk -- Post-modernism -- Eskimo love -- The national debt -- The four apples -- Help -- Kitty partners -- An offering -- Blood relatives. Standard No: ISBN: 0060152826 :; 0060911409 (pbk.) :; LCCN: 83-48810 Class Descriptors: LC: PS3551.P56; Dewey: 813/.54 Responsibility: Max Apple. Material Type: Fiction (fic) Document Type: Book Entry: 19831109 Update: 20011010 Accession No: OCLC: 10162152 Database: WorldCat --------------------------------------------------------------- SUGAR-HIGH Not in OED. (PROQUEST DIRECT) CATALOGUES MULTIPLY IN SCRAMBLE FOR SALES Chicago Tribune (pre-1997 Fulltext); Chicago, Ill.; Oct 8, 1985; Associated Press; Sub Title: [NATIONAL, C Edition] Start Page: 3 ISSN: 10856706 Dateline: WASHINGTON (...) If that doesn't send your kids on a sugar high, try a 10-pound chocolate bar from Hershey's. (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS) Making a Hero Takes a Heroic Effort; By MARIAN E. BORDEN; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 27, 1985; pg. WC26, 1 pgs ("Especially when I was left eating dozens of small boxes of raisins, while my kids were floating on a sugar high.") A Weekly Guide to Family Dining; Hot Shoppes Cafeterias; By PAT McNEES Special to The Washington Post; The Washington Post (1974-Current file), Washington, D.C.; Apr 16, 1981; pg. MD8, 1 pgs (Full text not available-abstract only--ed.) (WORLDCAT) Stories written by: hyper-active, sugar high young adults II / Author: Weideman, Katie.; Maciorowski, Elizabeth. Publication: [Aberdeen, S.D. : Quality Quick Print, 1997 Document: English : Book Stories written by hyper-active, sugar high young adults / Publication: [Aberdeen, S.D. : Quality Quick Print, 1995 Document: English : Book --------------------------------------------------------------- THE CHEF'S COMPANION: A CULINARY DICTIONARY Third Edition by Elizabeth Riely Hoboken, New Jersey: John WIley & Sons 355 pages, paperback, $24.95 2003 The author is editor of the RADCLIFFE CULINARY TIMES (a newsletter of the Schlessinger Library), a contributor to GASTRONOMICA, and author of A FEAST OF FRUITS. Her work has appeared in BON APPETIT, GOURMET, the BOSTON GLOBE, and the NEW YORK TIMES. The book is described as "The indespensable guide to over 5,000 culinary terms," and 900 terms are new with this edition. There are no illustrations, such as in WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF CULINARY ARTS. (This has almost no culinary equipment terms.) There are no dates for the terms, and there are no etymologies, either. The book ends with a selected bibliography. There are no charts of food terms by country/cuisine. Not a single web address is given. To give it the old "hot dog" test, "hot dog"...is not here. "Frankfurter" is "A German sausage from which the hot dog is descended; smoked pork and beet (Beef?--ed.), served poached; called _Bockwurst_ in Frankfurt." There are few drinks. "Tea" is here, but not "smoothie" or "Bloody Mary." There is no food slang. It's another book. It'll help me. But it doesn't really do what I do and compete with what I want to do for a "culinary dictionary." --------------------------------------------------------------- "WINDY CITY" ERROR OF THE DAY From Lexis/Nexis: Copyright 2003 The Sunday Tribune plc Sunday Tribune (Ireland) April 20, 2003 SECTION: Pg. 13 LENGTH: 974 words HEADLINE: Nothing to beef about in Chicago; 48 HOURS IN CHICAGO BYLINE: John Coughlan BODY: DAY ONE THE moniker 'Windy City' dates from the 1893 World Fair, when the rest of America tired of listening to the local windbags singing its praises; they still boast that theirs is an all-American city like no other. They have a point. On a short visit you will be stretched to sample a fraction of the goodies on offer. (...) From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 21:24:58 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:24:58 EDT Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: n a message dated 4/28/2003 4:59:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US writes: << I did my dissertation on the formation and origins of southern hemisphere varieties of English. It was always fun to come across such anecdotes. >> While visiting Australia I called the math department of a university to locate a Dr. Taylor, a family friend from the States. The very nice person who answered the phone said, "Oh, yes, Dr. Tyler." "No, Dr. Taylor," I corrected. "Yes, Dr. Tyler," was the reply. At that point I gave up and decided the chances of the department having both a Dr. Taylor and a Dr. Tyler were too small to worry about, so I said yes, that's the person I want (and indeed it was). Dr. Taylor told me that yes, the Australians do have a way to distinguish "Taylor" from "Tyler" but he was unable to reproduce it. <> Is there an accepted theory as to why Australia is called "Oz"? Noting the juxtaposition of "NZ" and "OZ" in your post, and the way you capitalize "OZ", I can't help wondering if "OZ" is an acronym for "Old Zealand" as opposed to "New Zealand". The following is from an on-line conversation with a couple of Australians that I saved without copying names or e-addresses. One of the writers is named Alan Crooke; I did not record any other names. The etymology given sounds too good to be true but needs to be reported. - James A. Landau <> From Bapopik at AOL.COM Tue Apr 29 21:25:27 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:25:27 -0400 Subject: Special Sauce (1858) Message-ID: ..."Rare's special sauce"... --NEW YORK PRESS, April 30-May 6, 2003, pg. 35. "Special sauce." McDonald's--now, isn't that special? (OCLC WORLDCAT) Thanksgiving recipes Public Television Library. 1974 English Visual Material : Videorecording : Videocassette 1 cassette, 29 min. : sd., col.; 3/4 in. Washington, D.C. : Public Television Library, Jim Haller, owner and chef of a Portsmouth, New Hampshire, restaurant, shows how to prepare a Thanksgiving meal of roast turkey, dressing with a special sauce, baked apples, cranberry sauce, sauteed brussel sprouts, gravy, and pumpkin pudding. (PROQUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS, for McDonald's jingle) About New York; The All-American High School Band ; By FRANCIS X. CLINES; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 24, 1977; pg. 12, 1 pgs ("The maestro settled for two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame seed bun, and the band played on.") (PRO QUEST HISTORICAL NEWSPAPERS) 531. THE FRUGAL HOUSEWIFE.; SUSANNAH CARTER'S SAUCES--ANOTHER CHEAP DINNER DESCRIBED.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; May 28, 1882; pg. 9, 1 pgs 532. SERVING THE SICK.; HOW FOOD SHOULD BE PREPARED AND PRESENTED TO INVALIDS. ; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Sep 14, 1879; pg. 9, 1 pgs 533. NEW BOOKS.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Dec 29, 1858; pg. 2, 2 pgs ("At the commencement of the work we have a formidable catalogue of no less than ninety-two 'special sauces,' every one of which is an absolute necessity in a well-ordered kitchen;..." From a book review FRANCATELLI'S COOKERY--ed.) From fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU Tue Apr 29 21:33:49 2003 From: fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU (Fred Shapiro) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:33:49 -0400 Subject: Special Sauce (1858) In-Reply-To: <65A5B54B.30D17010.0015B172@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote: > ..."Rare's special sauce"... > --NEW YORK PRESS, April 30-May 6, 2003, pg. 35. > > "Special sauce." McDonald's--now, isn't that special? Surely this is not a dictionary-worthy collocation. Fred Shapiro -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred R. Shapiro Editor Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, Yale Law School forthcoming e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu http://quotationdictionary.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US Tue Apr 29 22:02:23 2003 From: juengling_fritz at SALKEIZ.K12.OR.US (FRITZ JUENGLING) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:02:23 -0700 Subject: Pronunciation of "death, dead" Message-ID: <> >Is there an accepted theory as to why Australia is called "Oz"? Noting the >juxtaposition of "NZ" and "OZ" in your post, and the way you capitalize "OZ", >I can't help wondering if "OZ" is an acronym for "Old Zealand" as opposed to >"New Zealand". No particular reason really. It just sticks out to capitalise both. Surely, it's not an acronym for 'Old Zealand.' I have heard that it gained in popularity (if not originated) with "The Wizard of Oz," but I have never investigated that and I am not sure whether that suggestion was made in earnest. (Maybe such a discussion was made on this list) Fritz From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Tue Apr 29 23:37:47 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:37:47 -0400 Subject: turkeys in the news Message-ID: We perhaps do not all read the hunting news in the NY Times. Those who do not will have missed a demonstration that not all newspaper columnists are careless about word histories. From "Wily Wild Turkeys Lurk in Abundance for the Hunt", by Nelson Bryant, New York Times; New York, N.Y.; Apr 27, 2003. (Only the philologically interesting part is copied.) The domestic turkey that provides Thanksgiving fodder in America is a distant soft-muscled and fat-laden relative of its wild cousin. Tracking down why a turkey is called a turkey is a challenging hunt in itself. On his delightful Web site, World Wide Words, Englishman Michael Quinion observes that around 1530 a new bird was brought to English dining tables ''by merchants trading out of that area of the eastern Mediterranean called the Levant but whom the English called Turkey merchants because the whole area was then part of the Turkish empire.'' GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 02:13:39 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:13:39 -0400 Subject: Ham Sandwich (1825); Special Sauce Message-ID: SPECIAL SAUCE Francatelli, the chef to Queen Victoria, might have popularized "special sauce." I have not seen the next volume of the HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG, but OED has "sauce" (liquor) from 1940. After the McDonald's commercial came out in the 1970s, "special sauce" became humorous catch words, like "the colonel's secret recipe." It was used very often for the slang sense ("The bartender has prepared a special sauce"). OED has a lot of "special" entries. I can't argue that "special sauce" is any more or less deserving than "special forces" or "midnight special." If "special sauce" doesn't make the OED and doesn't make HDAS and doesn't make any other dictionary, again, my personal apologies for the "special sauce" post. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HAM SANDWICH THE AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK (2003) does have an "Index of Recipes by States." I meant that the information wasn't presented in a state or a regional format. Page 138 has "HAM SANDWICHES (1837)," adding "This is the earliest printed sandwich recipe I know, and it comes from _Directions for Cookery_ by Eliza Leslie." It is not the first "ham sandwich." I have a special interest in ham sandwiches, having discussed its legal implications last year. (AMERICAN PERIODICAL SERIES) The New Monthly Magazine and Literary Journal. American Ed. (1821-1834), Boston; 1825; Vol. 10, Iss. 58 Song; C; pg. 379, 1 pgs The wine cellar; L; pg. 375, 5 pgs (Pg. 379: "...and Mr. B--l, the founder of the banquet, sedulously doing the honours with only intenser civility, and calling out for fresh store of ham sandwiches and broiled mushrooms, to enable us to do justice to the liquid delicacies before us.") From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 30 02:15:06 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:15:06 -0500 Subject: Australian pronunciation Message-ID: >At 1:33 PM -0700 4/29/03, Kim & Rima McKinzey wrote: >All this discussion re Oz pronunciation reminds me of the first time >one of my Australian relatives came through the States. I was about >7 and the morning after this cousin arrived, he asked me where the >"bison" was. I remember wondering if he thought all Americans had >pet buffalo... > >(Of course he meant the sink (basin).) > >Rima Here's one more anecdote. About 1990 I visited NYC and was walking down Fifth Avenue past St. Patrick's Cathedral, when I noticed an impressive double-row of policemen lined up on the street running from Fifth to Madison Avenues. This was just across from the cathedral. I walked up to a young couple sitting on the steps of the Cathedral and asked why the policemen were there. "Guy PeRRITE", said the fellow. I wasn't sure who Guy Perrite was (I'd been away from NYC for a while), but the young woman, who was evidently American, smiled and said: "Gay parade." Gerald Cohen From gcohen at UMR.EDU Wed Apr 30 02:15:33 2003 From: gcohen at UMR.EDU (Gerald Cohen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:15:33 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Base-Ball in 1793 Message-ID: Below my signoff is a message sent by baseball researcher John Thorn to the 19th Century Baseball discussion group. Gerald Cohen >At 3:15 PM -0400 4/29/03, John Thorn wrote: >To: "19cBB" <19cBB at yahoogroups.com> >From: "John Thorn" >Subject: [19cBB] Base-Ball in 1793 > > >Last November, Skip McAfee inquired of the group: "Has anyone found an >earlier citation [than 1857] in the United States to the term "base-ball" >(spelled with a hyphen), in referring to the game as we know it?" Skip knew, >from George Thompson's great find, that the spelling "base ball" had made it >into print in 1823. > >David Nevard contributed a journal entry by Thoreau from 1856. David Block >replied with some American citations from 1855 (Whitman), 1852, and 1849; of >course he had also located the spelling of "base-ball" in a Guts Muths >volume of 1796 ("Ball mit Freyst?ten (oder das englische Base-ball"), >described in his excellent essay at >http://www.sabr.org/htdocs/dcforum/User_files/3c08097500f21711.html. > >I would like to throw another ball into the bag with this Town of Pittsfield >(Masachusetts) ordinance of 1793, banning "any game of wicket, cricket, >base-ball, bat-ball, foot-ball, cats, fives, or any other game played with >ball." The context for this find: > > " . the new town-house was completed and occupied by the March >meeting of 1793. > "The safety of the interior of the meeting house being secured >by the exclusion of the town meetings, the exterior was protected by a >by-law forbidding 'any game of wicket, cricket, base-ball, bat-ball, >foot-ball, cats, fives, or any other game played with ball,' within eighty >yards of the precious structure. As a matter of fact, however, the lovers of >muscular sport were not absolutely excluded from the tempting lawn of >'Meeting-House Common,' as the letter of the law would have excluded them. > "It was, indeed, their favorite resort; but Chandler Williams >was ever at hand, with his voice of courteous warning, to ward off the >threatened bombardment, when the danger to the meeting-house windows became >imminent." > >SOURCE: The History of Pittsfield, (Berkshire County,) Massachusetts, From >the Year 1734 to the Year 1800. Compiled and Written, Under the General >Direction of a Committee, by J. E. A. Smith. By Authority of the Town. >Boston: Published by Lea and Shepard. 149 Washington Street. 1869. (Spelling >and punctuation as per the oroginal; text quotation is from pp. 446-447) > >The precise year of the by-law--perhaps it didn't enter into the books until >1794--could be found in the original town minutes, presumably extant in >Pittsfield. > john thorn From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 03:33:23 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:33:23 -0400 Subject: Lazy Susan (1912); Lazy Daisy (1907); Lazy Daisy Cake (1943) Message-ID: LAZY SUSAN It was only a matter of time before my first CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR antedate. Hm, maybe I'll try "Baptist Cake." OED and Merriam-Webster have 1917 for "Lazy Susan." This is an excellent article on it. GIVING AN AUTOMATIC DINNER; Servant dispensed with by means of a turntable; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Sep 25, 1912; pg. 13, 1 pgs ("It is the turn-table or 'Lazy Susan," the characteristic feature of the self-serving dinner-table.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LAZY DAISY OED has 1923 for "lazy daisy." LAZY-DAISY STITCH IS VERY EFFECTIVE AND QUICKLY DONE; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Apr 26, 1913; pg. 8, 1 pgs Problem of Dressing Well on a Slender Purse More Difficult Than Ever This Year.; Wonderful Prices.; By ANNE RITTENHOUSE.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Oct 4, 1908; pg. X6, 1 pgs Display Ad 8 -- No Title; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 21, 1907; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("Attractive novelties with a pleasure holiday-gift suggestion to be worked in the simple, effective 'Lazy Daisy' stitch:...") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LAZY DAISY CAKE Mentioned in THE AMERICAN HISTORY COOKBOOK as "1930s," but no early citation is provided. The NEW YORK TIMES is shut out here. I'll add some Wisconsin recipes for you mad Madisonites out there. It's Impulse Buying--But for a Good Cause; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; May 28, 1965; pg. C3, 1 pgs Children Edit Own Cookbook; Banana Bread; By Constance Dippel Written for The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Aug 20, 1964; pg. 6, 1 pgs Display Ad 18 -- No Title; The Washington Post, Times Herald (1959-1973), Washington, D.C.; Aug 25, 1960; pg. A5, 1 pgs These Bridge Players Bid Recipes; Mrs. A. D. L; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Aug 2, 1956; pg. 48, 1 pgs Display Ad 5 -- No Title; The Washington Post and Times Herald (1954-1959), Washington, D.C.; Feb 17, 1956; pg. 5, 1 pgs Lazy Daisy Cake Popular; Frosting; O. J. B.; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 28, 1955; pg. 6, 1 pgs To Change the Subject:; Wisconsin and Its Cook Book ...; By Grace Miller; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 3, 1943; pg. 13, 1 pgs: It's interested in how you make "Krummel Kuchen," and wants to tell you how to make it. It's interested in how you make butterscotch bread, pumpkin pie, and sour milk pancakes liek grandma used to make. (...) There's "Kolachy" (Bohemian cottage cheese tarts), for instance; Danish Kringle; Berliner Kranser (cookied that call for "4 raw egg yolks and 4 cooked egg yolks"). There's Scotch Short Bread; Punchki (Polish doughnuts); Armenian Beaurack (a sort of turnover filled with a cheese and parsley omelet). There are Swiss Eggs; Rice Bavarian; Tomatoes Bristol. And if those titles don't intrigue you, how about "Lazy Daisy Cake? (...) For an appetizer the book asks you to try spreading potato chips with cream cheese. Or, make another cheese appetizer called "Burning Bush." (...) Wisconsin is printing only 25,000 copies of this "Favorite Recipes from America's Dailryland," and says the demand for them is already tremendous. From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 03:42:40 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:42:40 -0400 Subject: Sour Milk Pancakes (1914); Butterscotch Bread (1936) Message-ID: SOUR MILK PANCAKES Just a follow-up from the Wisconsin recipe book. Once again, the CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR is first. It's No Trick to Mix Pancake Batter -Success Secret Lies in the Frying; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Nov 28, 1944; pg. 14, 1 pgs To Change the Subject:; Wisconsin and Its Cook Book ...; By Grace Miller; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 3, 1943; pg. 13, 1 pgs Bravo Once More, Frank Sullivan!; A PEARL IN EVERY OYSTER. By Frank Sullivan. 290 pp. Boston: Little, Brown & Co. $2.; BEATRICE SHERMAN.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 27, 1938; pg. 97, 1 pgs LOST AND FOUND; Mystery, Adventure, Romance in the Jemez Mountains of New Mexico; By Priscilla Wayne; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 20, 1936; pg. TR8, 1 pgs Lost and Found; By Priscilla Wayne; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Dec 19, 1936; pg. X18, 1 pg DAILY COOK BOOK; Sour Milk Pancakes.; By JANE EDDINGTON; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Mar 5, 1924; pg. 13, 1 pgs SOUR MILK PANCAKES FAVORED; Some prefer them to any other kind; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Mar 2, 1914; pg. 6, 1 pgs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BUTTERSCOTCH BREAD Only one citation before what I'd previously cited. To Change the Subject:; Wisconsin and Its Cook Book ...; By Grace Miller; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Jun 3, 1943; pg. 13, 1 pgs MENUS for TODAY; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; Aug 26, 1936; pg. X13, 1 pgs ("BUTTERSCOTCH WAFFLE BREAD.") From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 04:34:33 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:34:33 -0400 Subject: Baptist Bread/Cake, Holy Pokes, Huffjuff; Potato Bargain; Necessity Mess Message-ID: BAPTIST CAKE Only three hits for this--_all_ in the CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR. DARE has 1931-1933. Serenity: 1904; ROBERT FRANCIS; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Mar 7, 1951; pg. 12, 1 pgs 'Baptist Cakes' Known to Many; Baptist Cakes; Written for The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; May 23, 1934; pg. 8, 1 pgs Paging New Englanders!; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; May 11, 1934; pg. 6, 1 pgs ("I remember there was one breakfast dish which I was very fond of, and that was called 'Baptist cakes.'") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BAPTIST BREAD, HOLY POKES, HUFFJUFF, POTATO BARGAIN, NECESSITY MESS, SEVENTH HEAVEN Where Queer Names Mean Good Eating; Holy Pokes; By Ethel M. Eaton Written for The Christian Science Monitor; Christian Science Monitor (1908-Current file), Boston, Mass.; Sep 25, 1945; pg. 11, 1 pg: It has long been a tradition that the visitor to New England always finds good food awaiting him. However, the stranger in our midst may not always recognize the food he is eating by its name. If he's long in this section of the country, he will probably encounter, sooner or later, Fannie Daddies, Featherbeds (the kind you eat), Popdoodle, Down East Sizzlers, Seventh Heaven, Halleluiah, Holy Pokes, Gap and Swallow, Necessity Mess, and other dishes with novel names. And don't aske me how they got them, for--with few exceptions--I don't know any more than you do. But I do know, from sundry wanderings elsewhere, that you will go far to find better food, no matter what it's labeled; and frequently the same dish has different labels in different sections of New England. For instance, a Halleluia in one place is a Cape Cod Stifle in a Cape community. And then there are Holy Pokes--that's the Connecticut name for them; on the Maine coast you'll be eating Huffjuffs; and if you meet up with Baptist Bread or Dough Boys on your New England holiday, they will be the same Holy Pokes you enjoyed in Connecticut. Necessity Mess has several names, too--though none so uniquely descriptive: Potato Bargain happens to be one of its other names. From the coastal section comes a hearty dish bearing the picturesque epithet of "Scootin'-'Long-the-Shore," so dubbed by fishermen who prepared it while attending to their work on a moving boat. Still keeping to the shore, we find Boat Steerers--clam fritters to you! If you eat fried clams in some Cape Cod communities, you will be eating Fannie Daddies--I'd like to know how thay got that name, too! A versatile group are the Slumps and Grunts; and let the visitor be warned in advance that if he partakes too freely, he'll do both later! These dishes are usually made from berries, preferably blueberries--though other fruit may be used. Indeed, Apple Slump is a famous New England dish. And while we're on apple dishes, there's Seventh Heaven, and whoever named it was not guilty of overstatement. If you run into Yankee Apple John anywhere--as you doubtless will--don't make the mistake of calling it Pandowdy! What is set before you under the name of Jolly Boys depends on where you are in these six corner states. In the northern section, you will be eating Rye Meal Drop Cakes (they're good eating, too!); in another locality, you will be enjoying baked apples with the cores removed and the spaces filled with pork sausage. Strangely enough, in the inland state of Vermont I first encountered Sailor's Duff which apparently originated along the coast and migrated to the interior. But wherever you find it, don't refuse it, for it's good! Another delicacy first enjoyed in Vermont (One line illegible--ed.) any name--is called Finger Putters, a sort of glorified cookie. As their name implies, Down East Sizzlers originated in the extreme northeast corner of Yankee land, though you may find them elsewhere. They're a sort of blueberry turnover, browned in "sizzling" deep fat. And that same sizzling deep fat helps to make Boston Belles the good eating that they are. Of course, they might be almost anything, since much good food emananates from that city; but they happen to be codfish cakes, light as a feather, golden brown and crispy on the outside; and dedicated, as everyone knows, to Sunday breakfast along with baked beans, reheated. No article on New England foods would be complete without mention of Red Flannel Hash. You'll run into it everywhere, but it probably won't be made twice in the same way. Some cooks put cabbage in it, while others wouldn't think of doing such a thing; some chop the cold corned beef in with the vegetables, while others serve it sliced alongside. But all are united on one ingredient--beets! (Recipes for "Holy Pokes" and "Seventh Heaven" and "Fannie Daddies" and "Halleluiah" and "Featherbeds" follow. DARE has almost all of these, except for "Seventh Heaven" and "Halleluiah" and "Necessity Mess," and the first citation is the 1939 YANKEE COOK BOOK--ed.) From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 05:10:25 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:10:25 -0400 Subject: "Pastrami" in New York Times; Baptist Cake (1925?) Message-ID: PASTRAMI An awful, thoroughly forgettable article on "pastrami" is in Wednesday's NEW YORK TIMES (www.nytimes.com) food section. The author of the piece wanted to know about the word "pastrami," so, rather than contact the OED, he contacted cookbook authors who don't know anything. FWIW, here's another spelling and citation: Display Ad 14 -- No Title; The Washington Post (1877-1954), Washington, D.C.; May 29, 1922; pg. 4, 1 pgs ("Pastroma (spiced beef) lb. ...65c" at Old Dutch Masters Market.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BAPTIST CAKE (continued) The middle of the three articles mentioned a "Baptist Cake" recipe from this cookbook. I now see that the cookbook is from 1925, so the recipe may antedate DARE: Title Everybody's cook book [microform] : a comprehensive manual of home cookery, compiled from the records of the School of household science and arts, Pratt institute / edited by Isabel Ely Lord. Imprint New York : H. Holt and Co., 1925, c1924. From SteveSlr at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 06:14:32 2003 From: SteveSlr at AOL.COM (Your Name) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 02:14:32 EDT Subject: A question for a news article Message-ID: This is Steve Sailer, the National Correspondent for United Press International (UPI). I was wondering if you might help me out with a topic I'm exploring for a news article on a particular accent that seems to be becoming more common among well-educated African American men. I got interested in this because I recently interviewed a geneticist at Howard U.,and then I watched a biologist at Arizona State being interviewed on PBS. I noted that they spoke with identical accents. It's the one used by lots of college educated black men under, say, age 45 these days: very masculine, distinctively black, but not at all ghetto. You hear it a lot from African-American men wearing those little wireframe glasses that seem to be a subtle marker of being a college grad. It's a good all-around accent -- in some ways like an Australian or Irish accent in that it's easy to understand, reasonably efficient for pronouncing multi-syllabic words quickly and clearly, but it's not fussy-sounding like a BBC English accent. I was wondering if there's a name for this or any information on its origins. How does it differ from the typical accent of a white college grad? From a less educated black's accent? Is there a black female equivalent? Thanks, Steve Sailer National Correspondent United Press International www.UPI.com Main: 818-766-7687 Fax: 818-766-3787 Mobile: 202-841-1217 12515 Landale St. Studio City, California, USA 91604-1306 Secondary Email: SteveSlr at aol.com From remlingk at GVSU.EDU Wed Apr 30 16:17:49 2003 From: remlingk at GVSU.EDU (Kathryn Remlinger) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:17:49 -0400 Subject: "Are you deef?" Message-ID: This is purely anecdotal evidence about the deaf/deef pronunciation. My maternal grandmother, who was born and raised in NW Ohio and whose first language was German, also said "deef" for deaf. I always attributed it to her first language and regional dialect, which both of which were influenced by German. I also think it's generational--none of her children pronounce deaf this way. Kate ____________________ Kathryn Remlinger, Ph.D. Associate Professor of English: Linguistics Department of English Grand Valley State University 1 Campus Drive Allendale, MI 49401 USA remlingk at gvsu.edu tel: 616-331-3122 fax: 616-331-3430 From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 16:49:47 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:49:47 EDT Subject: Note Job; Moons Over My Hammy (1992); Fishamajig (1970) Message-ID: NOTE JOB From the NEW YORK SUN, 30 April 2003, pg. 2, col. 3: _Police: "Note-Job" Robber a Homeless Man_ By WILLIAM MAULDIN (...) Police said Mr. Brown is responsible for 14 "note-job" robberies, in which a robber passes a threatening note to the teller demanding money. A drastic increase in "note jobs" this year prompted Mayor Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly to ask banks for help in preventing robberies. (See the RHHDAS for "nut job" and, perhaps, OED for "nose job"--ed.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- MOONS OVER MY HAMMY From the NEW YORK SUN, 30 April 2003, pg. 16, col. 3: _Eat Your Words_ _A Guide to Menu Language, From Crosnes to Chocolate Venison Jus_ (...) Chain restaurants deal with novice and timid eaters. Their menus aim for reassurance. Despite the "fun" names for dishes--"Moons Over My Hammy," "Death By Chocolate"--menu language at chain restaurants is extravagantly specific. Typed DrawingWord Mark MOONS OVER MY HAMMY Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: restaurant meals consisting primarily of ham and egg sandwiches and served with one of the following; French fries, salad or soup. FIRST USE: 19920200. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19920200 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 74623306 Filing Date January 19, 1995 Published for Opposition October 17, 1995 Registration Number 1946766 Registration Date January 9, 1996 Owner (REGISTRANT) DENNY'S, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 203 East Main Street Spartanburg SOUTH CAROLINA 29319(LAST LISTED OWNER) DFO, INC. CORPORATION BY ASSIGNMENT DELAWARE 203 E. MAIN ST. SPARTANBURG SOUTH CAROLINA 29319 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Live/Dead Indicator LIVE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- FISHAMAJIG The talk about restaurant menu names got me all nostalgic for Friendly's "Fishamajig." Typed DrawingWord Mark FISHAMAJIG Goods and Services IC 042. US 100. G & S: SANDWICHES ESPECIALLY PREPARED IN CONJUNCTION WITH RESTAURANT SERVICES. FIRST USE: 19700218. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19700218 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73020550 Filing Date May 3, 1974 Registration Number 1015495 Registration Date July 8, 1975 Owner (REGISTRANT) FRIENDLY ICE CREAM CORPORATION CORPORATION MASSACHUSETTS 1855 BOSTON ROAD WILBRAHAM MASSACHUSETTS 01095(LAST LISTED OWNER) HOMESTEAD, INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF DELAWARE 111 CONTINENTAL DRIVE, SUITE 309 NEWARK DELAWARE 19713 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record WILLIAM J. BURGESS Type of Mark SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19950627 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE From george.thompson at NYU.EDU Wed Apr 30 17:04:22 2003 From: george.thompson at NYU.EDU (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:04:22 -0400 Subject: C. Barnsley Message-ID: This message, I suppose, is really for Jesse. I hope that he will ask the boys in the back room to check the files. I have received the following question from a constituent: "If you look up 'Jelot' in the O.E.D. you find the following quoted: c1550 C. BARNSLEY Treat. agst. Woman; I've searched the catalogs, online databases, web search-engines, etc., with no luck. Please advise." The full citation is: "For a stewde strumpet can not so soone gette up a light lewde fashyon, But everye wanton Ielot wylle lyke it well, and catche it up anon. Ibid., Ducke, Ielot, ducke pretye minions." It is explained as a variant spelling of "gillot". Nothing shows up in RLIN under the title, though quirks of Elizabethan spelling and the possibility that the title is given in condensed as well as abbreviated form makes a title search doubtful. I notice that C. BARNSLEY also appears in the OED as the author of Pride & Abuse of Women (c1550) 119 A caped cassock much like a players gown. (under "cassock"). But I didn't find this book in the STC either. Late breaking development, leading to the solution: I have just found the following in RLIN: Gosson, Stephen, 1554-1624. Pleasant quippes for upstart newfangled gentlewomen / by Stephen Gosson. A treatise on the pride and abuse of women / by Charles Bansley. The first from a copy with the author's autograph; the last from an unique impression by Thomas Raynalde. -- London : T. Richards, 1841. [v]-xii, 16, 15 p "Reprinted by T. Richards for the executors of the late C. Richards, 100, St. Martin's Lane." Originally printed in 1595. This leads to: Bansley, Charles. A treatyse, shewing and declaring the pryde and abuse of women now a dayes. [microform] [Imprinted at London : In Paules Church yearde, at thee sygne of the Starre. By Thomas Raynalde, [ca. 1550] Signed at end: Charles Bansley. Place of publication and printer's name from colophon; publication date estimated by STC. References: STC (2nd ed) 1374. Available on microfilm and on the World Wide Web. Microfilm. Ann Arbor, Mich.: University Microfilms International, 1953. 1 microfilm reel; 35 mm (Early English books, 1475-1640; 517:02). So the author's name is wrong and the title both condensed as well as abbreviated. GAT George A. Thompson Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998. From mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU Wed Apr 30 17:59:37 2003 From: mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU (Mark A. Mandel) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:59:37 -0400 Subject: Reuleaux polygon Message-ID: On a University of Pennsylvania local newsgroup I mentioned the "Rouleaux triangle". That elicited the following response (prefixed with ':'), and my appended followup: >>> : Yes! Though I believed it's spelled Reuleaux. There is a nice page about : them here, : http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ReuleauxTriangle.html . I should mention that : any Reuleaux Polygon http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ReuleauxPolygon.html : will work too. Fascinating! I first recall hearing of these in a story by Poul Anderson, who I think used the "ou" spelling. I always thought it was "Rouleaux", and I ran 4 Google searches to start checking (after failing to find either spelling in OED Online): triangle polygon Reuleaux 606 214 Rouleaux 1330 30 I found the opposite skews for the two nouns interesting. And some of the hits led to the evident origin of the term. As Amazon.com presents it: Kinematics of Machinery: Outlines of a Theory of Machines by Franz Reuleaux He lived 1829-1905, according to http://www.seiflow.co.uk/Franz%20Reuleaux.htm, and was quite an expert on kinematics and small machines (also http://www.mae.cornell.edu/Reuleauxcoll/Sp.feat5.html). I gather that he developed the theory of the polygons that are known by his name. Each edge is an arc of a circle, and as the polygon rolls along a flat surface, its upper limb maintains a constant distance from the surface, just as with a circle, so that a Reuleaux-polygonal cylinder can be used as a roller. And, I would guess, the spelling "Rouleaux" arose from association with the verb "roll" ("rouler" in French). <<< -- Mark A. Mandel Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania From AAllan at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 18:04:40 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:04:40 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20A=20question=20for=20a=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?news=20article?= Message-ID: Dear Steve, Very interesting question. You have noticed a phenomenon that I don't think has been discussed by our group before, and that I don't have any special expertise for. Let me suggest you get in touch with Professor John Baugh in the School of Education at Stanford, jbaugh at stanford.edu who is a former president of our American Dialect Society, who is African-American himself, and who has quite a dialect repertoire of his own. He's friendly and likely to give you in-depth authoritative comments. If he's not available, let me know and I'll try to think of someone else. Best wishes - Allan Metcalf Executive Secretary, American Dialect Society From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 18:37:52 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:37:52 EDT Subject: Reuleaux polygon Message-ID: In a message dated 4/30/2003 1:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU writes: > I first recall hearing of [Reuleaux polygons] in a story by Poul Anderson, Poul Anderson "The Three-Cornered Wheel" which appeared in Analog Science Fiction when that magazine was printed in "bedsheet format", which was March 1963 through April 1965. I have no idea if it has ever been reprinted. It was very minor Anderson, being a typical Analog gimmick story. Some explorers needed to move something heavy (I forget what) but the autochthones worshipped the circle as holy and therefore circular wheels were taboo. So the explorers pulled the expected rabbit out their helmets by using rollers in the shape of Reuleaux triangles. My Analog collection is packed away in the attic so I can't look it up anytime soon. - James A. Landau From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 30 18:41:29 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:41:29 -0400 Subject: Reuleaux polygon In-Reply-To: <14d.1eb31e9e.2be17200@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 02:37:52PM -0400, James A. Landau wrote: > In a message dated 4/30/2003 1:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, > mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU writes: > > > I first recall hearing of [Reuleaux polygons] in a story by Poul Anderson, > > Poul Anderson "The Three-Cornered Wheel" which appeared in Analog Science > Fiction when that magazine was printed in "bedsheet format", which was March > 1963 through April 1965. I have no idea if it has ever been reprinted. It > was very minor Anderson, being a typical Analog gimmick story. Some > explorers needed to move something heavy (I forget what) but the autochthones > worshipped the circle as holy and therefore circular wheels were taboo. So > the explorers pulled the expected rabbit out their helmets by using rollers > in the shape of Reuleaux triangles. > > My Analog collection is packed away in the attic so I can't look it up > anytime soon. It was the October 1963 Analog. Jesse Sheidlower From JJJRLandau at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 18:54:14 2003 From: JJJRLandau at AOL.COM (James A. Landau) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:54:14 EDT Subject: Lemon Message-ID: A possible early use of "lemon" in the sense of "a bad deal" or "a bad purchase": the writer is commenting on the names of train stations observed during a train trip to Columbia, Pennsylvania there was "Lemon place," suggestive to soured passengers of a collision squeeze; The United States illustrated; in views of city and country. With descriptive and historical articles, ed. by Charles A. Dana. Dana, Charles A. (Charles Anderson), 1819-1897. ed. 2 v. plates. 31 cm. New York, H. J. Meyer [1853?] http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moa;cc= moa;sid=048c97ef8e6146a55df3f2c5316570ad;q1=synthetic%20geometr%2A;rgn= full%20text;idno=AFL5137.0001.001;view=image;seq=00000229 - James A. Landau From mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU Wed Apr 30 18:59:05 2003 From: mamandel at UNAGI.CIS.UPENN.EDU (Mark A. Mandel) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:59:05 -0400 Subject: Reuleaux polygon (fwd) Message-ID: Followup from the person who posted the correct spelling, forwarded with his name by permission: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:25:14 -0400 From: Urijah Kaplan To: Mark A. Mandel Subject: Re: Reuleaux polygon Yes, very interesting. Though I think "Rouleaux" would probably be associated more with the noun, Main Entry: rou?leau Pronunciation: r?-'lO Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural rou?leaux /-'lOz/ Etymology: French Date: 1693 : a little roll; especially : a roll of coins put up in paper --Urijah From SteveSlr at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 19:20:41 2003 From: SteveSlr at AOL.COM (Your Name) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:20:41 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20A=20question=20for=20a=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=20news=20article?= Message-ID: Thanks very much. I just emailed Dr. Baugh, but I got an auto-reply saying he'll be out for the rest of the week. Do you know anybody else I could ask? Steve Sailer National Correspondent United Press International www.UPI.com Main: 818-766-7687 Fax: 818-766-3787 Mobile: 202-841-1217 12515 Landale St. Studio City, California, USA 91604-1306 Secondary Email: SSailer at upi.com From AAllan at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 19:40:04 2003 From: AAllan at AOL.COM (AAllan at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:40:04 EDT Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20=C2=A0=20=C2=A0=20=C2=A0=20Re:=20=E2=80=A0=20?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=A0=20=E2=80=A0=20A=20question=20for=20a=C2=A0=C2=A0=20n?= =?UTF-8?Q?ews=20article?= Message-ID: Dear Steve, Try Dennis Preston of Michigan State, another past president of the American Dialect Society. He's white, but he's an alert observer. preston at pilot.msu.edu Good luck! - Allan Metcalf From laurence.horn at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 30 21:10:55 2003 From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU (Laurence Horn) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:10:55 -0400 Subject: dInIs's abilities In-Reply-To: <55.3eba830f.2be18094@aol.com> Message-ID: At 3:40 PM -0400 4/30/03, AAllan at AOL.COM wrote: >Dear Steve, > Try Dennis Preston of Michigan State, another past president of the >American Dialect Society. He's white, but he's an alert observer. >preston at pilot.msu.edu > Good luck! - Allan Metcalf Sort of like "He's white, but he's a good jumper"... L From Bapopik at AOL.COM Wed Apr 30 22:14:55 2003 From: Bapopik at AOL.COM (Bapopik at AOL.COM) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:14:55 -0400 Subject: Sedentary Tourism Message-ID: Another one from today's newspaper, not very popular just yet, but you never know. From the the NEW YORK SUN, 30 April 2003, pg. 15, col. 5 ("AT THE THEATER"): When the curtain rises for the second act of "Enchanted April," its towering, florid set receives a wave of applause. The British director Jonathan Miller has a disparaging term for such cheers: "sedentary tourism." From jester at PANIX.COM Wed Apr 30 23:46:55 2003 From: jester at PANIX.COM (Jesse Sheidlower) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:46:55 -0400 Subject: C. Barnsley In-Reply-To: <46d1246410.4641046d12@homemail.nyu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 01:04:22PM -0400, George Thompson wrote: > This message, I suppose, is really for Jesse. I hope that > he will ask the boys in the back room to check the files. Thanks for the correction, George. I've passed it on to the Bibliography Group. Best, Jesse