Re:       Re: F**king-A

RonButters at AOL.COM RonButters at AOL.COM
Sat Jan 18 04:14:06 UTC 2003

I think we are beginning to repeat ourselves, but let me take a stab at in
one more time.

Concerning Mark's "relevant point" (1): Just as <-in'> is "thoroughly
established as a colloquial alternate to" <-ng>, so too is <'n> thoroughly
established as a colloquial alternative to <an>. On these grounds, then, it
could be reasonably analyzed as either "fuckin' a" or "fuck 'n a".

Concerning his "relevant point" (2): Both "fuckin' a" with a velar nasal and
"fuck 'n a" with a full "ae" vowel would be less likely. Neither would be
"hypercorrect," however, just functionally emphatic. If I say, "You fucking
fool!" with a velar nasal, it sounds to me like the speaker is really
serious, not that the speaker doesn't know the rules for informal English.

Concerning his "relevant point" (3): If I can say <king> I can say <fucking>.
If I understand him rightly, Mark is saying that <fucking> pronounced with
schwa+velar nasal is not easy to pronounce, whereas [I]+alveolar nasal is
easy to pronounce. Whatever. I certainly never maintained that <fucking> (or
<fuckin'> would be pronounced with a schwa. The normal vowel (if there is
one, and not just a syllabic alveolar nasal) would be [I] in both cases. So
the "relevance" of this point escapes me, if I understand him correctly.

In a message dated 1/17/03 12:14:05 PM, mam at THEWORLD.COM writes:

... I never expected to hear a velar nasal [in fuckin' A].

Relevant points:

 1. "-in'" was thoroughly established as a colloquial alternate to


 2. This was a fixed expression, so one said it as one heard it. "Yer

fucking A!" with a velar would have been as hypercorrectively or

miscorrectively wrong (though not as blatantly so) as later on *"Tell it

as it is!" for "Tell it like it is!"

 3. / k @ ng / would have required either a release and reforming of the

velar closure, or a syllabic nasal with nasal release, either of which

(IMO) would have been less consistent with the forceful way in which I

always heard this pronounced than / k I n / would. >>

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