Bismarcks (1894); Laws are like sausages (1871)

Bapopik at AOL.COM Bapopik at AOL.COM
Thu May 20 07:07:08 UTC 2004

DOUBLE POSTING--The "hot dog" post didn't go through, I posted again, and 
both posts made the list.  Happens every time.  Sorry.
AFRO AMERICAN (Baltimore)--Paper of Record now has it through the end of 
1965.  No "Different Strokes."  Here's the earliest "soul food":
    1       Afro American       2       Saturday, September 4, 1965     News    
    19      News        
    2       Afro American       2       Saturday, September 11, 1965        
News      05      News        
    3       Afro American       2       Saturday, September 25, 1965        
News      19      News        
    4       Afro American       2       Saturday, October 2, 1965       News    
    29      News        
    5       Afro American       2       Saturday, October 23, 1965      News    
    35      News    
PROQUEST CHICAGO TRIBUNE--I can't find anything about it yet.  ProQuest 
hasn't even put out a press release about the Chicago Tribune.
   More on "Bismarcks" or "Bismarks."  Again, John Mariani's ENCYCLOPEDIA OF 
AMERICAN FOOD AND DRINK (1999) states that the "earliest references to 
bismarcks date to the 1930s."
  The NYPL doesn't seem to have this book that I went through today at NYU 
Special Collections.
Author  <A HREF=", Jessup.  
Title   The American pastry cook : a book of perfected receipts for making 
all sorts of articles required of the hotel pastry cook, baker, and 
confectioner, especially adapted for hotel and steamboat use, and for caf├ęs and fine 
bakeries / by Jessup Whitehead.   
Edition 7th ed. 
Publisher   Chicago : J. Whitehead & Co., 1894. 
Description 225, ii p. ; 27 cm. 
Series  Whitehead, Jessup.Oven and range series ;  v. 1. 
The Oven and range series ; v. 1    
Notes   Spine title: Hotel pastry cook. 
Three of the parts have separate title pages. 
Includes index. 
SpecCol c.1 is from the library of Cecily Brownstone. NNU   
Contents    The hotel book of fine pastries -- The hotel book of puddings -- 
The hotel book of breads and cakes -- The hotel book of salads and cold 
References  Bitting, K.G. Gastronomic bib., p. 494  
Subject (LCSH)  Cake.  
Quantity cookery.   
Related name(s) <A HREF=", Cecily,  former owner.  
Other titles    Hotel pastry cook.  
Pg. 60:  Bismarcks.
   Large doughnuts of the plain sort directed at No. 561, with a teaspoonful 
of stewed fruit inside, cut out like thin biscuits, allowed to rise and then 
   I don't know what Fred Shapiro (the legal quotations expert) has for this 
famous line.  See below.
   Maybe Bismarck didn't say it?  At the very least, it's from 1871 and --hot 
dog!--from Chicago.  (O.T.  The city burned right after this.)
RE: Bismarck, laws and sausages

From: Kent Olson (kolson at
Date: 12/04/02 
Next message: Biberman, Caren: "New York Librarians-New York Case Tracking 
Previous message: Victoria Coulter: "Re: West invoicing" 
In reply to: Schmidt, Michelle J.: "RE: Bismarck, laws and sausages" 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] <x-flowed> 
OK, much as I would like to appear a legal savant, browsing through musty 
old volumes in my spare time (I should know that works only with lawyers or 
law professors, not with librarians) -- Fred's right, it was HeinOnline 
<>. Full-text search <laws sausages> limited to 
articles before 1958. I first tried a similar search in JSTOR <laws NEAR 
(10 words) sausages> but came up empty-handed there. -- KO 
At 11:40 AM 12/4/2002 -0800, Schmidt, Michelle J. wrote: 
>Great Job Kent!! Now please share with all of us how you uncovered this 
>source. Inquiring librarians want to know. 
>Michelle Schmidt 
>Information Resource Manager 
>Morrison & Foerster LLP 
>3811 Valley Centre Drive, Suite 500 
>San Diego, CA 92130-2332 
>Fax: 858-720-5125 
>Phone: 858-720-5170 
>mschmidt at 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Kent Olson [mailto:kolson at] 
>Sent: December 04, 2002 10:42 AM 
>To: Fred Shapiro; Paulette Toth at 
>Cc: Thurow, James; law-lib at 
>Subject: Re: Bismarck, laws and sausages 
>Here's a 19th century source, with no mention of Bismarck: 
> Some twenty years ago, as I was sitting in the House of Representatives 
> of the Illinois legislature, watching its closing hours, a member who had 
> never spoken during the entire session arose to address the House. . . . 
> He said: ". . . I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is 
> like the making of sausages--the less you know about the process the more 
> you respect the result." 
>Frank W. Tracy, The Report of the Committee on Uniform Laws, of the 
>American Bankers' Association, 15 Banking L.J. 542, 542 (1898). 
>Kent Olson 
>UVA Law Library 
>kolson at 
>At 12:44 PM 12/4/2002 -0500, Fred Shapiro wrote: 
> >On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 Paulette Toth at wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Several years ago I did in-depth research looking for 
> > > the source of this quotation. In the end, a librarian 
> > > from the Congressional Research Service assured me that 
> > > there is no written source for the quotation. It was a 
> > > verbal quip tossed off by Bismarck, a statesman known 
> > > for his wit (among other things). 
> > 
> >Here we have a quotation attributed to a 19th-century person but for which 

> >there is no evidence earlier than 1958 (search "sausages and laws" on 
> >Lexis or Westlaw to get the 1958 Florida case). This doesn't mean that it 
> >was a verbal quip, but rather that he didn't say it altogether and the 
> >attribution is a later tradition. 
> > 
> >Fred Shapiro 
> > 
> > 
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

> >Fred R. Shapiro Editor 
> >Associate Librarian for Collections and YALE DICTIONARY OF QUOTATIONS 
> > Access and Lecturer in Legal Research Yale University Press, 
> >Yale Law School forthcoming 
> >e-mail: fred.shapiro at 
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Edwardsville Intelligencer - 5/4/1871   
...somewhat hesitatingly, LAWS ARE LIKE SAUSAGES -the less you know of 
how.....he expressed his very great for the LAWS of his said his frieud..
Edwardsville, Illinois Thursday, May 04, 1871  757 k    
Pg. 1, col. 3:
_Fun in the Illinois Legislature._
   From the Chicago Tribune.
   Another member, speaking of his high sense of the compliment paid him when 
he was nominated and elected, stated that he had called to see a former 
legislator, a personal friend, to whom he expressed his very great regard for the 
laws of his country.--"Yes," said his friend, somewhat hesitatingly, "yes--laws 
are like sausages--the less you know of how they are made the better you like 
Star Herald - 2/28/2003     
...Bismarck's famous opine that "LAWS ARE LIKE SAUSAGES. It's better not to tracks and Indian tribes ARE accounted for. There also was 
Scottsbluff, Nebraska Friday, February 28, 2003  882 k      



More information about the Ads-l mailing list