the meaning of ''developed from''

Laurence Horn laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Mon Apr 25 19:11:27 UTC 2005

At 1:51 PM -0400 4/25/05, RonButters at AOL.COM wrote:
>In a message dated 4/25/05 12:02:40 PM, wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM writes:
>>  The existence or nonexistence of "go frig " is irrelevant here.  As for the
>>  masturbatory sense of "frig," I recommend a look at HDAS.
>I did, and it confirmed my intuition that FUCK is much more widely known than
>FRIG in any sense, whether masturbatory, trifling, or as a euphemism for
>FUCK. It does not seem "logical" at all that a well-known and
>widespread insult as
>(GO) FUCK YOU(RSELF) would have "developed from" one that is, at best,
>little-known, narrowlly distirbuted historically and culturally, and
>in itself best
>known as a euphemism for the very form it has supposedly evolved into.

As already note, I am in complete agreement with this position,
whether or not a calque of "Va (te) faire foutre" was involved.  But
now that I (re)think of it, it's not entirely clear that fucking
oneself really is an anatomically impossibility, assuming external
objects may be invoked for the purpose.  The suggestion then amounts
to something along the lines of "Go fuck yourself with the aid of an
unpleasant if not downright painful object of your worst enemy's

To support this analysis, I note that there are 99 google hits for
"fuck yourself with a rusty", with various head nouns suggested for
the operation.  The first ten hits range over "chainsaw", "knife",
"spoon", "hacksaw", "boat anchor", "iron pole", "axe", "nail", and


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