ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)

[Wilson Gray]

Right as rain, as usual, Jon. "Drill sergeant," never "DS," it is. In
my day, drill sergeants were addressed simply as "sergeant." And, of
course, "basic training" is still called "basic."

I remember the plan to fold the Marine Corps into the Army. At the
time, it was said that it wasn't bad enough that the Navy had to have
its own air force, but it also even had to have its own army, the
marines!

Since those days, the influence of the Marine Corps has only grown. The
designations of some Army enlisted grades have been changed to match
the terms used by the Marines, e.g, the "private first class" of my day
is the Marine Corps-like "lance corporal" of today, with an insigne
based on that of the Marine Corps.

FWIW, The Red Army called its marines by a name that translates as
"maritime infantry." In Soviet days, there was only the Red Army, to
which the Military Air Forces and the Military Maritime Fleet were
subordinate.

-Wilson

On Jul 27, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject:      Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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> --------
>
> Just for the record, my perception of the distribution of "drill
> instructor" / "DI" matches Wilson's.  It was a Marine Corps expression
> long before it became popular in reference to the army.  However, I
> don't believe it antedates World War II.  Even during Vietnam, I
> believe that the Army term was "drill sergeant" (not abbreviated to "
> *DS" , by the way) - which the USMC had once used routinely as well.
>
> During World War I, the Marines used a combination of naval and
> military terminology, often referring to themselves as "soldiers" (as
> in the cliche', "soldiers of the sea").  But during World War II
> especially, a movement got underway to emphasize the unique (as well
> as the naval) characteristics of the Marines.
>
> After WWII this tendency was accelerated, especially after a
> short-lived post-war political movement to dismantle the Marine Corps
> and place it under Army command.
>
> Like "drill instructor," "boot camp" was generally restricted to the
> Naval services until long after WWII. I think the Army itself still
> frowns on its use..
>
> JL
> Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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> --------
>
> On Jul 26, 2005, at 2:46 PM, James A. Landau wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: "James A. Landau"
>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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>> -
>> --------
>>
>> of no particular importance, but they strike my curiosity
>>
>> In a message dated Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:16:16 -0500, "Mullins, Bill"
>> _Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL_ (mailto:Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL) cites:
>>
>>> THE ARGOT OF THE STUDIO WORKERS By GLENDON ALLVINE.
>>> New York Times; Feb 3, 1935; pg. X4 col 4.
>>>
>>> OFF TO BUFFALO -- Hurry up, or exit with all possible speed."
>>
>> is this perhaps related to the expression "shuffle off to Buffalo"?
>>
>>>
>>> "PIG -- Current transformer."
>>
>>
>> "pig" for "transformer" is electrical power jargon since at least the
>> mid-60's, when I heard it from an electrical engineer roommate in
>> college. Most
>> commonly found as "pole pig", a transformer up on a telephone pole.
>>
>> A wild guess at the etymology is that a transformer resembles an ingot
>> of
>> iron in shape and perhaps in size, and cast iron ingots have been
>> referred to as
>> "pig iron" since, according to one account, Catalan ironworkers
>> invented
>> cast iron back in the Middle Ages. The reason for the term "pig
>> iron" is that
>> the ingots in their molds reminded the ironworkers of a mother pig
>> feeding her
>> piglets.
>>
>> Wilson Gray writes :"Remember when "uptight" was "up
>> tight" and also had a positive meaning that was once more widespread
>> than the negative one?"
>>
>> This may not be very relevant, but when I was in Basic Training in
>> 1969 a
>> sergeant when he wanted to compliment you said "your shit is up
>> tight".
>
> You got an actual compliment from a cadre member while still in Basic?
> That *is* up tight, not to mention outta sight! You must have been some
> "sharp soldier," if that phrase was still used in your day,
>
>> I've
>> never been able to hear the term "uptight" since without thinking of a
>> DI.
>
> In my day - late '50's - "D[ril]I[instructor]" was only a marine
> expression disdained by the War (black GI slang term for the Army).
> Unfortunately, I'm having a senior moment and I can't recall what the
> term in use was in those days. I "have an inkling in the back of my
> thinking-cap" that "instructor" was also part of the Army term, but
> that's all I can come up with.
>
>>
>> Wilson Gray writes "FWIW, The Movie Channel once showed brief
>> infomercials
>> between movies.
>> The one that featured gaffer's tape showed it looking a lot more like
>> what I know as "electrician's tape" - smooth, black, stretchy plastic
>> -
>> and not at all like duck/duct tape - textured, silvery, non-stretchy
>> cloth"
>>
>> A problem here is that, back in the 1950's when my father was teaching
>> me
>> carpentry and wiring, there was no such thing as
>
>> "electrician's tape".
>
> To paraphrase a line from an old movie, "Among yidn, a goy is no yid,
> But, among goyim, a goy can be a yid." That is, though electricians may
> know that there's no such thing as "electrician's tape,"
> non-electricians "know" that there is. It's like civilians not knowing
> the difference between "As you were!" and "Carry on!"
>
> -Wilson Gray
>
>> Instead
>> an electrician had to use two different pieces of tape to seal a join
>> in an
>> electrical wire. First he used a rough-surfaced non-stretchy black
>> tape
>> which may have been cloth---certainly it did not feel like plastic.
>> This layer
>> provided the elecrical insulation but had poor adhesive
>> qualities---it stuck
>> just enough to stay in place while waiting for the second layer..
>> Then over
>> the first layer he used a tape that was either rubber or plastic (I
>> don't
>> remember which) and may have been stretchy.. This tape provided good
>> adhesion and
>> kept the inner layer in place, as well as providing a protective
>> covering
>> over the inner layer.. One of these two tapes (I don't remember
>> which) was
>> called "friction tape".
>>
>> - James A. Landau
>>
>
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