Fricative voicing in *houses*

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Wed May 10 00:19:24 UTC 2006 

Great example, dInIs! Perhaps I can spread it about. Or maybe not. I find it
really difficult to accept "done" as standard in this environment. Besides,
though I haven't heard any examples of blacks using "I'm done" in the wild,
I have found cases of "I'm through" used by whites not only in the wild, but
also even in print. "All your syntax are ours!" ;-)

-Wilson

On 5/9/06, Dennis R. Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Fricative voicing in *houses*
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think Wilson's observation on the voiceless form of house plural
> (hou/s/es) probably reflects a north-south distinction. Both
> pronunciations are there in the north; the voiceless form is rare in
> the south. I'm also not aware of any studies of the distirbution of
> the voiceless form in areas where it exists.
>
> On the other hand, Wilson is playing pretty fast and loose with the
> labels BE and WE when he suggests that "I'm through verb+ing" is BE.
> For me, the "through" is not only native (I'm a WE speaker) but also
> carries a "sick-and-tired" connotation.
>
> A: Are you done working?
> B: Done hell, I'm through!
>
> dInIs
>
>
>
> >Among speakers of American Black English, the plural of the noun,
> "house,"
> >is "hou[z]es." Likewise, the verb, "(to) house," is "hou[z]e." I
> personally
> >did not become aware of the validity of the pronunciation of the plural
> as
> >"hou[s]es" till perhaps ten years ago. Before then, if ever I noticed
> that
> >anyone pronounced "houses" as "hou[s]es," either it didn't register or I
> >assumed that the speaker was working-class or lower, therefore not a
> speaker
> >of standard American White English whose pronunciation I needed to be
> able
> >to emulate in formal settings.
> >
> >FWIW, I had the same problem with BE "through" vs. WE "done," as in BE,
> "I'm
> >_through_ VERBing," vs. WE, "I'm _done_ VERBing."
> >
> >-Wilson
> >
> >On 5/9/06, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>-----------------------
> >>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >>Subject:      Re: Fricative voicing in *houses*
> >>
>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>>Michael Becker of MIT asked the following question, and I replied (on
> >>another
> >>>list I am on);  my reply is below his question.  I said I would
> >>cross-post the
> >>>question here.  As usual, if anyone can help Michael, would you please
> >>reply
> >>>both to him and to this list?  Thanks!
> >>>
> >>>Damien Hall
> >>>University of Pennsylvania
> >>
> >>Nothing on the isogloss for hou[s]es vs. hou[z]es--I'm pretty
> >>restricted to the latter group, except of course for the former
> >>pronounciation for "house's".  But something that always struck me
> >>was the speakers who distinguish "hou[s]ewife" from "hou[z]ewives",
> >>as a kind of assimilation at a distance.  The latter innovation has
> >>always struck me as a phonological analogue of its morphological
> >>counterpart in "sleptwalked".
> >>
> >>Larry
> >>
> >>>   > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>   Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:21:29 -0400
> >>>   > From: Michael Becker <michael at linguist.umass.edu>
> >>>>   Subject: fricatives
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   Do you know anything about the socio distribution of the plural of
> >>"house",
> >>>>   i.e who says "hawsiz" and who says "hawziz" (vowel quality doesn't
> >>matter to
> >>>>   me)? Any other s-final nouns that do this? And has anybody looked
> at
> >>these
> >>>>   cases systematically?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   ----------------------------------------------
> >>>>   Michael Becker
> >>>>   Department of Linguistics
> >>>>   UMass, Amherst
> >>>>   http://people.umass.edu/mbe/
> >>>
> >>>===============================
> >>>
> >>>My reply:
> >>>
> >>>Dear Michael, dear list,
> >>>
> >>>I haven't looked at this systematically, so I don't know literature
> >>>about anyone
> >>>who might have;  so (the first part of) what follows is strictly
> >>>anecdotal, but
> >>>maybe it will point you in a good direction when you're looking for
> >>>literature.
> >>>
> >>>It has been my impression since arriving here in the States (nearly
> >>>three years
> >>>ago) that "hausiz" ~ "hauziz" is one of the components of the
> difference
> >>>between  GenAmE (if that exists) and BrE.  Maybe this is a better
> >>>way around to
> >>>put it:  I am not aware of any speaker of Standard Southern BrE (my
> >>>dialect) who
> >>>says "hausiz" with a /s/.  There are clearly Americans who say it
> >>>with a /z/, as
> >>>I do, but I couldn't say where the difference lay.
> >>>
> >>>Introspecting about it just now, it seems to me that in my own
> >>>idiolect *house*
> >>>>   /hauzIz/ may in fact be a lexical exception.  For me, the plural of
> >>*mouse*
> >>>'computer peripheral' is *mouses* /mausIz/.  Clearly, other nouns
> ending
> >>in
> >>>/-Vs/ in the singular don't voice the /s/ in the plural: *face* >
> >>/feisIz/ not
> >>>*/feiziz/, etc.  Unfortunately, and equally obviously, the two
> non-20th-C
> >>>English words on the exact template of *house* (*louse* and *mouse*
> >>'quadruped
> >>>mammal; vermin*, unless I am missing any) are removed from the equation
> >>by
> >>>having irregular plurals.
> >>>
> >>>Another direction you might look in is the more general voicing (or
> >>>not) of /s/
> >>>or /z/ intervocalically.  Or maybe I am thinking of another possible
> >>lexical
> >>>exception:  President Bush (at least;  and if you can take his English
> as
> >>an
> >>>authority) says *citizen* /sItIs at n/ (where /@/ = schwa).  I had
> >>>never heard that
> >>>fricative pronounced voiceless before I came to the States.  The *OED*
> >>lists
> >>>only /sItIz at n/ as a pronunciation, but notes that it is not certain
> where
> >>the
> >>>fricative in the word came from etymologically, since the history of
> the
> >>>English word seems to be
> >>>
> >>>Latin reconstructed (non-attested) *civita:ta:num
> >>>>   Old French citeain, citehain, citeen, citein, citien, citain >
> >>citeyen,
> >>>citoyen
> >>>>   Anglo-French citesein, citezein, sithezein
> >>>>   Middle Eng citesein, etc.
> >>>
> >>>Merriam-Webster notes the pronunciation of the word as
> >>>
> >>>/sIt at z@n/ also /-s at n/
> >>>
> >>>so presumably Pres. Bush isn't the only one to use that
> >>>pronunciation;  which is
> >>>useful, since that might mean it's a more general phenomenon that's
> >>actually
> >>>worth investigating!
> >>>
> >>>The *OED* notes the suggestion that the /z/ in *citizen* may have
> arisen
> >>by
> >>>analogy with the one in *denizen*, where it *is* etymological.
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >
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>
> --
> It should be the chief aim of a university professor to exhibit
> himself in his own true character - that is, as an ignorant man [sic]
> thinking, actively utilizing his small share of knowledge. Alfred
> North Whitehead
>
> Dennis R. Preston
> University Distinguished Professor
> Department of English
> 15-C Morrill Hall
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824-1036
> Phone: (517) 353-4736
> Fax: (517) 353-3755
> preston at msu.edu
>
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