Relative clauses and commas

Karl Hagen karl at POLYSYLLABIC.COM
Fri Aug 3 03:57:39 UTC 2007


More than just consistent. I'd say that's the only plausible reading.

Mark Mandel wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Relative clauses and commas (was: Re: "certain" inThe First
>               Noel)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> But the prosody of the line allows or encourages a pause there, regardless
> of the written form.
>
> Note also that all of these versions are consistent with "Nowell" as
> greeting/interjection, not 'Christmas'.
>
> m a m
>
> On 8/2/07, Karl Hagen <karl at polysyllabic.com> wrote:
>
>>The printed versions of this carol aren't _that_ old, and the comma
>>appears to be a relatively recent insertion, probably the result of
>>misanalyzing the verse.
>>
>>In the mid-19th century, there would not usually be a comma between the
>>relative and its antecedent if the clause was restrictive. However,
>>commas often appeared between the subject and the verb if the subject
>>had subordinate-clause adjuncts.
>>
>>The following rules come from Goold Brown's _Grammar of English
>>Grammars_ (1851) [e-text from Project Gutenberg]:
>>
>>"When the nominative in a long simple sentence is accompanied by
>>inseparable adjuncts, or when several words together are used in stead of
>>a
>>nominative, a comma should be placed immediately before the verb; as,
>>'Confession of sin without amendment, obtains no pardon.'--_Dillwyn's
>>Reflections_, p. 6. 'To be totally indifferent to praise or censure, is a
>>real defect in character.'--_Murray's Gram._, p. 268.
>>
>>....
>>
>>"When a relative immediately follows its antecedent, and is taken in a
>>restrictive sense, the comma should not be introduced _before_ it; as,
>>For the things _which_ are seen, are temporal; but the things _which_
>>are not seen, are eternal.'--_2 Cor._, iv, 18. "A letter is a character
>>_that_ expresses a sound without any meaning."--_St. Quentin's General
>>Gram._, p. 3."
>>
>>By those rules, the comma is misplaced and should appear at the end of
>>the first line:
>>
>>"The First Noel the Angels did say, / Was to certain poor shepherds..."
>>
>>The first version appears in 1823 and actually contains a 'that', which
>>precludes the misreading. There are also no commas at all, assuming the
>>transcription is accurate:
>>
>>"The first Nowel that the Angel did say
>>Was to certain poor Shepherds in fields where they lay;"
>>
>>source:
>>http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/first_nowel1.htm
>>
>>Complicating matters, there are different versions of the carol. This
>>same site gives four other versions:
>>
>>1833 (Beckley): "The first Nowell the Angel1 did say / Was to three poor
>>Shepherds in fields as they lay."
>>
>>1916 (Hutchins 643): "The first Noel, the angels say / To Bethlehem's
>>shepherds as they lay."
>>
>>1916 (Hutchins 266): "The first Nowel that the Angel did say, / Was to
>>certain poor Shepherds in fields as they lay,"
>>
>>1929 (Dunstan): "O well, O well, the Angels did say / To shepherds there
>>in the fields did lay;"
>>
>>So the 1833 version merely deletes 'that', with no change of punctuation.
>>
>>Hutchins 643 does have a comma, but here "The first Noel" is a fronted
>>direct object of "say." It's possible that the familiar version adopted
>>this punctuation without realizing that the syntax was significantly
>>different.
>>
>>Hutchins 266 punctuates according to Goold Brown's rules above.
>>
>>The last version looks on the surface like an eggcorn, although I
>>suspect there's something more going on. It's a Cornish version.
>>
>>Karl
>>
>>
>
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