episodic "never" (was Re: Final call for papers: ADS 2008 Chicago)

Wed Aug 8 00:10:36 UTC 2007

I recommend that you'uns check out the following book:

South, Stanley. 1996. I never killed a man didn't need
killing. Columbia, SC: Wine Cellar.

This usage is right common in the South Midland in my
experience, and they's quite a few cites in my
Dictionary of Smoky Mountain English, including

She never died then.

You never seen a hillside plowed then, did you?

Is this construction Elizabethan, Larry?

Michael

--- Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:

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> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      episodic "never" (was Re: Final call
> for papers: ADS 2008
>               Chicago)
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 4:11 PM -0400 8/7/07, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
> >Jenny Cheshire had an article some years ago on
> this same punctual use of
> >"never" by kids in Reading, I believe (not at hand
> now).  I think I recall
> >hearing it too, most commonly in strong denial
> situations like the one
> >Wilson suggests.  Maybe it's not nonstandard for
> most people but just
> >colloquial.
>
> To decide this, especially when "never" is used with
> full verb
> phrases (as opposed to the free-standing "Well/No, I
> never"), it
> would be helpful to focus on cases where you know a
> particular event
> could only happen once, e.g. "I never killed him".
> For me this would
> be non-standard and not just colloquial.  Curiously,
> Cheshire in the
> piece Beverly and I were referring to takes
> observers to task on
> exactly this point.  I wrote in my review:
>
> Cheshire has interesting things to say about the
> role of prescriptive
> edicts in language change, but I am not sure what
> she means in
> asserting that never in reference to a single past
> event 'has been
> incorrectly labeled non-standard by sociolinguists'
> (p. 48); surely
> this is a correct (and non-judgmental) application
> of the label.
>
> (I also complained that in assuming without argument
> that _-n't_ is a
> clitic--as opposed to an inflected form--she, along
> with other
> authors in the volume, disregards the convincing
> refutation of this
> assumption by Zwicky & Pullum 1983.)
>
> LH
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >At 03:38 PM 8/7/2007, you wrote:
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> >>-----------------------
> >>Sender:       American Dialect Society
> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >>Subject:      Re: Final call for papers: ADS 2008
> Chicago
>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>I have to go with Ron on this one. When we moved
> up to Saint Louis
> >>from Texas, we were struck by the ability of white
> neighbor kids,
> >>ca.1940, to use "No, I never!" for "No, I didn't!"
> as well as for "No,
> >>I never have / haven't (ever)!"
> >>
> >>-Wilson
> >>
> >>On 8/7/07, RonButters at aol.com <RonButters at aol.com>
> wrote:
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> >>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society
> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>  Poster:       RonButters at AOL.COM
> >>>
> >>Subject:
>
>>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20[ADS-L]=20Final=20c?
> >>>                =
>
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?all=20for=20papers:=20ADS=202008=20Chicago?=
> >>>
>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>  In a message dated 8/7/07 11:30:19 AM,
> preston at MSU.EDU writes:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  > For
> >>>  > example, "never" is apparently standard in "I
> never went there" for
> >>>  > "At no time in the past did I got there" but
> nonstandard for "I
> >>>  > didn't go there."
> >>>  >
> >>>
> >>>  So "standard" American English has some kind of
> punctual-versus-eternal
> >>>  aspect? Not for me, I think (maybe for young
> guys such as Dennis), is
> >>"I never went
> >>>  there" 'standard' for either case, though I
> could say it informally whether
> >>>  my meaning was 'I have never gone there' or 'I
> didn't go there at the
> >>time that
> >>>  instant in time that is at issue in our
> conversation." If someone says
> >>to me,
> >>>  "I never went there"--whether it is Dennis,
> Arnold, Frank, or some totally
> >>>  vernacular speaker, I cannot know, except for
> context, whether the time
> >>>  described is punctual or eternal.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  **************************************
> >>>   Get a sneak
> >>>  peek of the all-new AOL at
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> >>>
> >>>
>
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> >>>  The American Dialect Society -
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> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a
> strange complaint to
> >>come from the mouths of people who have had to
> live.
> >>-----
> >>
> -Sam'l Clemens
> >>
>
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