Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar

[Jonathan Lighter]

 Larry, you misunderestimate me. Five or more years ago, I noticed that "to _ and I" and to a lesser extent "to I and _" seemed to have taken over on TV news from the constructions with "me."

  So I made a conscious effort to notice when I heard the correct forms.

  I won't say I've _never_ heard the correct forms on TV since, but they exist in a tiny ratio to the hypercorrect forms.

  Try it yourself. Fun!

  JL

Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
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Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Laurence Horn
Subject: Re: Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
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At 7:19 AM -0700 8/21/07, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>OED suggests that "dived" is far older than "dove."
>
> OTOH, "to I and _" has become the spoken norm in my experience as
>well. TV journalists seem never to use anything else. Never.
>
> Most annoying.
>
> JL

I assume you're generalizing over both conjunct orders? I'd guess
that "to my brother and I" is far more likely than "to I and my
brother". (There's also the factor that you may not be noticing the
standard usage when it occurs, which makes the nonstandard one appear
more invariant than it is.)

LH

>
>"David A. Daniel" wrote:
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>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: "David A. Daniel"
>Subject: Re: Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
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>
>I don't get it. OK, scuba-dived sounds kind of weird, but so does
>scuba-dove. I think most folks would say "I went scuba diving" and sidestep
>the issue. With or without the scuba, though, dived and dove are both
>perfectly respectable as past tense for dive. Am I missing something? As for
>"...sent it to I and my brother" I don't think I know anyone (any native
>speakers, that is) who would say that. Maybe I don't know the right people?
>DAD
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
>Laurence Urdang
>Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:11 AM
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
>
>Heard today on WOR710, 0505, by Shelley Strickler:
>dived
>for "dove":
>"I scuba-dived in Cancun."
>I wonder if I shall ever again hear "me" instead of "I" in contexts like,
>"He sent it to I and my brother" (let alone the inherent rudeness of
>mentioning oneself before another or others, clearly a relic in the annals
>of politeness).
>I can tolerate anything as a professional linguist; but as a professional
>writer who tries to cleave to an elevated style, I abhor such linguistic
>miscegenations.
>L. Urdang
>
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