Proposal: A separate antedatings list
Barry A. Popik
Bapopik at AOL.COM
Sun Nov 4 19:21:06 UTC 2007
"I receive ADS-L in digest form, and usually skip a whole day's digest if I
see that the titles are mostly about antedatings and local food terms."
"Sorority sauce" was for her (and the next HDAS). It appears that the
term"sorority sauce" (for "ranch dressing") is used at Baylor, where Lynne taught.
Maybe she had nothing to add?
"I started this thread because it troubled me to be losing the likes of
Roger Shuy & Michael Montgomery, two of the most important dialectologists in
Yes, I am worried about the losses. I don't like the loss of Larry Urdang,
either. Neither Shuy nor Montgomery posted here much to use this resource. I
could have helped Montgomery on many terms, kicking butt on every food term,
but he never or rarely asked the list. (When his Dictionary of Smoky Mountain
English came out in 2004, I realized that electronic resources even then could
easily antedate nearly every single term in the dictionary.) Urdang had quit
and rejoined the list before. He complained about too many posts (and topics
"not to his liking"), but we pointed out the Daily Digests. He was against
combining subjects on posts, but then he and others complained about the
number of posts! Urdang seemed a little out of touch. When I pointed out a new
online Nebraska resource and then antedated "reuben sandwich," and Urdang made
an uniformed post in reply, not at all knowledgeable of the subject or the
You see these same arguments in every field. Austin, Texas is growing to be
a major city, largely because of people fleeing from California. How can we
"Keep Austin Weird" if we let them build their McMansions/Dallas palaces/Texas
tuscans in the beautiful hill country? Look at what they're doing to the
traffic! The development of computerized databases in the last few years (and on
a daily basis) has changed the face of lexicography. We should welcome these
"Uh, the culinary postings seem to me to be not even remotely
lexicographical--these are entirely about regional variation in American English, but are
not things that would go into
most dictionaries, and are thus suited for ADS-L but not DSNA, all other
I disagree. Perhaps "fried pickles" isn't "even remotely lexicographical,"
but "frickles" surely is. Maybe "cheese fries" isn't "even remotely
lexicographical," but "poutine" is in the OED and "disco fries" and "hobo fries"
(didn't post that yet!) surely are lexicographical. Yes, maybe I got away with
giving a historical treatment of "fried green tomatoes," but posts on
"hamburger" (OED) and "french fries" (OED) and "reuben sandwich" (OED) and "nacho"
(OED) and "iced tea" (OED) and "hot dog" (OED) almost all of the others most
certainly are lexicographical. Maybe I post one or two regional food terms a day
here, and ADS-L/OED/DARE/HDAS should consider themselves extremely lucky for
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