Classless

[Laurence Horn]

At 3:21 PM -0800 1/30/08, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>HDAS has "no-class," adj., back to 1965, but there's a slightly less
>definitive ex. as long ago as 1897.

A relative occurs in that OED 5b entry I mentioned earlier:

1874 HOTTEN Slang Dict., Class, the highest quality or combination of
highest qualities among athletes. 'He's not class enough', i.e., not
good enough. 'There's a deal of class about him', i.e., a deal of
quality.

They have an 1897 "no class" that may be the same as yours, but it's
predicative rather than attributive:
1897 Daily Tel. June (Ware), Soldiers! Why, soldiers ain't no class.

And as mentioned, nothing for "classless".

LH

>   The earliest HDAS ex. of the adjectival form "no-X" that is beyond
>question is "No-Taste theatre-goers," 1908.
>
>   Like the poor, the no-taste are ever with us.
>
>   JL
>
>Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
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>Poster: Wilson Gray
>Subject: Re: Classless
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>
>My impression is the same as Jon's. "Classless" in the sense of
>"having no class, no couth; lacking 'Klass with a capital K'" is
>relatively new. I'd use "no-class," not "classless," unless I wanted
>to describe a society that consists only of masses and no classes.
>
>-Wilson
>
>On 1/30/08, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
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>>  Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>  Subject: Re: Classless
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>>
>>  Not in HDAS either. And why? Because as of 1994 it was
>>considerably less common than one might think.
>>
>>  Even today, I find fewer than 50 RG's for "classless
>>son-of-a-bitch" (note hyphens to elicit solid, hyphenated, and
>>hyphenless forms) and fewer than 1000 for "classless asshole." Four
>>for "classless motherfucker."
>>
>>  None of these constructions shows up even once in Google Books.
>>Contrast a *quarter of a million* hits for "classy lady" alone.
>>
>>  So Bill's usage is easily understandable, and has been for over a
>>century. It just seems not to have occurred to people to use it
>>very often.
>>
>>  JL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Laurence Horn wrote:
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>>  Poster: Laurence Horn
>>  Subject: Re: Classless
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 3:16 PM -0500 1/30/08, Jesse Sheidlower wrote:
>>  >On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 07:49:31PM -0000, Michael Quinion wrote:
>>  >> In Bill Mullins's note, he used the word "classless". To me, perhaps from
>>  >> a surfeit of British preoccupations with class, that means a person who
>>  >> does not belong to any particular social class. He's obviously using to
>>  >> mean a person who lacks class. So far as I know, this won't work in
>>  >> British English, but is it a common US form?
>>  >
>>  >Yes, quite.
>>
>>  I agree. But curiously, AHD4 doesn't seem to have registered this:
>>
>>  1. Lacking social or economic distinctions of class: a classless society.
>>  2. Belonging to no particular social or economic class.
>>
>>  Nor does the OED, although somehow their lacuna is more explicable
>>  for the reason Michael gives. Both entries should be adjusted
>>  accordingly, of course. To be sure, *classless* is compositional,
>>  given the relevant (count noun) sense of *class* that is claimed to
>>  be lacking. This sense of the noun is included in the OED s.v. CLASS,
>>  5b:
>>
>>  slang or colloq. Distinction, high quality;
>>  *no class*: of no worth; of low quality, inferior.
>>
>>  but not in the AHD, whose senses include none that could make sense
>>  of "You got a lot of class".
>>
>>  LH
>>
>>
>>  >
>>  >My favorite such use is in the Sopranos episode
>>  >"Commendatori", when they're in Naples being served this
>>  >absolutely incredible meal, and Paulie asks the Italians for
>  > >some "gravy--you know, red sauce," and one Italian says to the
>>  >other something that's subtitled, "And you thought the
>>  >_Germans_ were classless pieces of shit."
>>  >
>>  >Jesse Sheidlower
>>  >OED
>>
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>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>-Sam'l Clemens
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