Subjunctive(?): not critical that

[Laurence Horn]

At 12:48 PM -0400 3/19/08, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>At 3/19/2008 12:31 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>At 12:14 PM -0400 3/19/08, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>>>At 3/19/2008 08:20 AM, Dennis Preston wrote:
>>>>For me the subjunctive (whose disappearance I applaud daily, and not
>>>>only in English) sounds better in the passive:
>>>>
>>>>[1] "It's not critical that everything be tied together."
>>>>
>>>>And the indicative passive is not so good at least for one of the
>>>>subtle distinctions that we appear to be trying to make here:
>>>>
>>>>[2] "It's not critical that everything is tied together."
>>>
>>>Doesn't [2] potentially have the opposite sense from [1], and
>>>therefore is at least ambiguous?  [1], being subjunctive, means that
>>>it is the case that not everything is tied together.
>>
>>I dispute that claim.  In my usage (active or passive), (1) is
>>compatible with the possibility that everything is (already) tied
>>together ("It's not critical that everything be tied together, but it
>>would be a good idea--why don't you check and add some tape if you
>>need to") and is also compatible with the possibility that everything
>>is not (yet) tied together.  It's about what should or, in this case,
>>need not be the case, not what is currently the case.
>
>I admit to error about (1) -- it does not determine what currently is
>the case.  (2) I still think is problematical.  To me, the "is"
>sounds indicative of the present situation: everything *is* currently
>tied together, but that's not crucial  But those who don't care about
>the subjunctive might interpret (2) also as not determinate --
>everything might or might not be tied together at the moment.
>

I agree with that.  For those who neutralize the mood distinction,
(2) is wide open; for those who would insist on the subjunctive for
the directive function, (2) tends to mark the way things are now (and
thus to be factive).

LH
>>
>>>   [2] can be
>>>interpreted as meaning that everything *is* tied together, but that's
>>>not critical (i.e., some things could be loose and the situation
>>>could still be acceptable).
>>>
>>>Joel
>>>
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>>
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>
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