the long vowels as monophthongs

[Neal Whitman]

You don't (always) even have to be trained in phonetics to hear the
diphthong. My son realized it for the "long A" sound when he was in
kindergarten, and I'd never told him about diphthongs at all. Details at:
http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2005/12/14/diphthongs-for-doug/.

Neal Whitman
Email: nwhitman at ameritech.net
Blog: http://literalminded.wordpress.com
Webpage: http://literalmindedlinguistics.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurence Horn" <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: the long vowels as monophthongs


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: the long vowels as monophthongs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 3:42 PM +0000 5/4/08, ronbutters at aol.com wrote:
>>I have stopped reading Mr. Truespell's  postings, but if I remember
>>correctly he argues (faced with obvious spwcrographic evidence)
>>that the "long" vowels are "pure"--they are just always followed by
>>offglides.
>>
>>That is, he is merely using a somewhat idiosyncratic definition of
>>"diphthong" in which a "diphthong" must require back-to-front, or
>>front-to-back, and/or low-to-high movement. Thus /iy/, /ow/, etc.
>>are not "true" diphthongs, but /oy/, /aw/, and /ay/ are.
>
> Au contraire; he has informed us over and over that /ay/--or "long
> I", as he prefers to think of it--is a monophthong and/or a pure
> vowel.  Why?  Because he "hears" it that way.
>
>>Another way of looking at it is to say that diphthongs must be
>>"phonemic," not phonetic.
>>
>>If I'm right about this, then this is only a trivial argument about
>>terminology--everybody agrees about the underlying reality.
>>
>>Or truespel may even have a small point with respect to
>>psychological reality, since the long-vowel offglides are (as Ben
>>notes) unconscious for native speakers, whereas the "true"
>>diphthongs are functional.
>
> That may be a bit closer to the mark, but I think the fact that we
> spell /ay/ as "i" (sometimes) is a major factor too.  Someone earlier
> mentioned the comparison to flat-earthers who would point out that,
> indeed, the earth looks flat to them; I don't think this is too far
> off base.
>
> LH
>
>>
>>In many respects all this mirrors phonoogical-theoretical
>>controversies from the 1950s concerning allophones, phonemes, and
>>"psychological reality"--which all seemed pretty trivial by about
>>1970.
>>
>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
>>
>>Date:         Sat, 3 May 2008 19:46:49
>>To:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] the long vowels as monophthongs
>>
>>
>>I don't follow all of his threads, but this seems to be the absolutely
>>clearest example that he can be given of what a diphthong is.
>>
>>Because of the nature of English, native speakers are prone to hearing
>>certain diphthongs as monophthongal (just as the "t" in prince and
>>princess is nearly unrecognizable).
>>
>>I do hope that others will chime in on this as I think it has the best
>>chance of getting through to him.
>>
>>If it doesn't, his e-mail doesn't just go on my kill list, I'll
>>register it to my server for deletion so it's not even relayed to me. BB
>>
>>On May 3, 2008, at 7:11 PM, Mark Mandel wrote:
>>
>>>  Mr. Zurinskas has been peddling his wacko ideas for at least twenty
>>>  years
>>>  and is proud of his ignorance -- or, as I suppose he thinks of it, his
>>>  refusal to compromise his God-given instinct by listening to anyone
>>>  who
>>>  knows anything about the subject. Nothing we say will sway such deep-
>>>  rooted
>>>  obtuseness. Save your breath, save your fingertips, save your
>>>  electrons,
>>>  time, and energy and put him on your kill list.
>>>
>>>  Of course, that won't help if you get the digest version. That was
>>>  my single
>>>  most compelling reason for switching my subscription.
>>>
>>>  Mark A. Mandel
>>>
>>>  On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Benjamin Barrett
>>>  <gogaku at ix.netcom.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Those are what are referred to as diphthongs. BB
>>>>
>>>>  On May 3, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>  -----------------------
>>>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>  Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>>>>>  Subject:      the long vowels as monophthongs
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>  The long vowels as one sound - monophthongs.  Go to the the link
>>>>>  below.  I express the long vowels as I say them, and as I believe is
>>>>>  the majority form in USA.  They are monophthongs to me.  Click on
>>>>>  the play arrow twice to hear play.  If you can identify the phoneme
>>>>>  in one sound, it's a monophthong.
>>>>>
>>>>>  http://www.qlipmedia.com/wqb/index.php?discid=bed59983
>>  >>
>>>>
>>
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