Fronted high back vowel /u/

Tue Dec 22 03:40:08 UTC 2009

I perceived the vowel I heard in "movie" as similar to French /y/,
which I understand to be around F1 260 and F2 1820. The values I got
were F1 395 and F2 1816.

Randall

Language: Defining dreams for millennia.

Randall Gess
Professor and Director
School of Linguistics and Language Studies
215 Paterson Hall, Carleton University
1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa ON K1S 5B6
Tel: (613) 520-6612  Fax: (613) 520-6641
Email: randall_gess at carleton.ca

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On 21-Dec-09, at 9:40 PM, Herb Stahlke wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I suspect "fronted" /u/ covers a range of sounds.  In Central Indiana,
> the most common variant I hear is a diphthong with a barred-i onset
> and a barred-u nucleus, little or no change in tongue position but
> increased rounding.  However, I haven't done instrumental work on
> this, so my description must be taken as anecdotal.
>
> Herb
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
> <GordonMJ at missouri.edu> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Gordon, Matthew J." <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I think that usually some rounding is retained when fronted so it
>> might be close to a /y/ or the barred-u (= u with the line through
>> it).
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/09 12:32 PM, "Tom Zurinskas" <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>> To hear these sounds in three different voices go to the vowel
>> sound chart at  http://www.phonetics.ucla.edu/course/chapter1/wells/wells.html
>> But "high" back is not given - just "back".
>>
>> What symbol does a "fronted /u/ when saying "food" take from the
>> diagram above so I can hear it?  Or just give me a word in
>> thefreedictionary.com that has that vowel sound.
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Tony Au
>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Just an anecdote, but I've always noticed a friend of mine (Inland
>>> Northern
>>> speaker) has a very fronted /u/ in "food"
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Herb Stahlke wrote=
>>> :
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>
>>>> I sing in a community choir in Anderson, IN, and direct a church
>>>> choir
>>>> nearby, and /u/-fronting is very widespread in this area. It causes
>>>> problems for choral conductors, who end up spending valuable
>>>> rehearsal
>>>> time fixing choral diction problems like this.
>>>>
>>>> Herb
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Randall Gess
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Randall Gess
>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if there is any data on fronting after non-coronals.
>>>>> The word
>>>>> I heard it in was "movie".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Language: Defining dreams for millennia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Randall Gess
>>>>> Professor and Director
>>>>> School of Linguistics and Language Studies
>>>>> 215 Paterson Hall, Carleton University
>>>>> 1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa ON K1S 5B6
>>>>> Tel: (613) 520-6612 Fax: (613) 520-6641
>>>>> Email: randall_gess at carleton.ca
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> The information in this message, including any attachments, is
>>>>> privileged and may contain confidential information intended
>>>>> only for
>>>>> the person(s) named above. Any other distribution, copying or
>>>>> disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient or have received this message in error, please notify
>>>>> Carleton University immediately by reply email at the contact
>>>>> listed
>>>>> above and permanently delete the original transmission from us,
>>>>> including any attachments, without making a copy. Carleton
>>>>> University
>>>>> is fully compliant with the Freedom of Information and
>>>>> Protection of
>>>>> Privacy Act and appreciates your cooperation in this matter.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20-Dec-09, at 9:20 PM, Gordon, Matthew J. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My statement was based on my recollection of what Labov and
>>>>>> colleagues reported in the Atlas of North America English. Notice
>>>>>> that I didn't claim that every person in every part of the
>>>>>> country
>>>>>> outside of the Inland North has fronting of these vowels. I said
>>>>>> that this pattern was found (i.e. could be heard from some
>>>>>> speakers)
>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To check my recollection, I took a look at the ANAE's findings
>>>>>> (map
>>>>>> 10.24, p. 101) on fronting of /u/ following coronals (the
>>>>>> environment most conducive to fronting). They report fronting
>>>>>> in at
>>>>>> least one speaker from the following states:
>>>>>> Alaska, Washington, California, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, So.
>>>>>> Dakota,
>>>>>> Nebraska, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma,
>>>>>> Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio,
>>>>>> Penn.,
>>>>>> Michigan, Kentucky, Virginia, New York, New Jersey, Conn., No.
>>>>>> Carolina, So. Carolina, Tenn., Arkansas, Louisiana, Miss.,
>>>>>> Alabama,
>>>>>> Georgia, Florida.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's just the speakers with the most extreme fronting
>>>>>> (normalized
>>>>>> F2> 1950 Hz). If you include those with moderate fronting (F2>
>>>>>> 1800 Hz), you pick up speakers in Oregon, Nevada, West
>>>>>> Virginia, as
>>>>>> well as several New England states.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Matt Gordon
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>> Wilson Gray [hwgray at GMAIL.COM]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:23 PM
>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Fronting of /u/ (and /o/) is found pretty much everywhere in
>>>>>> the US
>>>>>> except for the Inland North (e.g. the Great Lakes region)."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "*Pretty much everywhere* in the US except for the Inland
>>>>>> North"? A
>>>>>> claim hard to support, unless you've been pretty much everywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I first read of the existence of this sound shift in the
>>>>>> intro to
>>>>>> linguistics by the late Fr. Dineen, SJ, of Georgetown, I was
>>>>>> totally
>>>>>> shocked, since his statement, like yours, gives the impression
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> this is a feature of al dialects of US English. One of D's
>>>>>> examples
>>>>>> was "newn" [niun] for "noon." This and pronunciations like
>>>>>> "skewl" for
>>>>>> "school" are certainly common, if not standard, among white
>>>>>> Southerners at least as far west as Abilene, TX. But, till I had
>>>>>> occasion to live in the Northeast, I had no idea that this oddity
>>>>>> existed anywhere else. But then, you have in mind only white
>>>>>> speakers,
>>>>>> right? And, even among white speakers, such speakers along the
>>>>>> Left
>>>>>> Coast are not being included, no doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, I'm still waiting to hear it used generally from coast
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> coast, as, e.g. [nu:] for "new" is. (Not that [nIu] has become
>>>>>> obsolete. *Many* people still use it.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, I may have run completely off the rails, here, in
>>>>>> attempting to take you to task about this. Sound-change is pretty
>>>>>> unpredictable. In my lost youth, the pronunciation of, e.g.
>>>>>> "now" as
>>>>>> "naow" [n&u] and not as [nau] was *absolutely* not used by BE
>>>>>> speakers, except *very* rarely in mockery of SE speakers. (E.g.
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> was once a popular version of the song, Temptation, recorded by
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> "Cinderella G. Stump," which was done in a mockery of white,
>>>>>> mountain
>>>>>> speech. It was also popular 'mongst us cullud chirren, though
>>>>>> we had
>>>>>> no idea that it was supposed to be a put-down, Saint Louis
>>>>>> being such
>>>>>> a speech-island, back in the day, that we didn't know that there
>>>>>> existed people who really did speak more-or-less that way.
>>>>>> Nowadays,
>>>>>> I'd be hard put to find a BE speaker younger than fifty or so who
>>>>>> still uses [nau] and not [n&u]. If it wasn't for being able to
>>>>>> listen
>>>>>> to my old blues and R&B records, I might even begin to doubt my
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> memory that [nau] was ever used by anyone outside of my own
>>>>>> family.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once upon a time, the glo?al stop was so rare that I knew only a
>>>>>> single individual who used it in his ordinary speech, whether
>>>>>> monitored or unmonitored. I occasionally wondered whether he
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> have a speech defect. Nowadays, the glo?al stop is virtually a
>>>>>> marker
>>>>>> of hiphop/rap speech, and is slowly creeping into other forms of
>>>>>> speech, based on what I hear on The Judges.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sounds like pretty classic Southern Shift: back vowel
>>>>>>> fronting
>>>>>>> + raising of /E/ and /I/. The only thing odd would be the
>>>>>>> direction
>>>>>>> of the glide. When diphthongal, the lax vowels in the SoShift
>>>>>>> usually have central/schwa offglides if I recall correctly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fronting of /u/ (and /o/) is found pretty much everywhere in
>>>>>>> the US
>>>>>>> except for the Inland North (e.g. the Great Lakes region).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Matt Gordon
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Randall Gess [randall_gess at CARLETON.CA]
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 8:38 AM
>>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>> Subject: Fronted high back vowel /u/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm new to the list. I've just started doing volunteer work on
>>>>>>> occasion for a victim identification unit of law enforcement. I
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> recording with a male North American speaker that has a rather
>>>>>>> fronted /u/ sound (F1 395, F2 1816), in the word 'movie'. I've
>>>>>>> heard
>>>>>>> this kind of fronting before, but does anyone know how
>>>>>>> widespread it
>>>>>>> is geographically? The /E/ in leg is also a bit raised at F1
>>>>>>> 550, F2
>>>>>>> 1942 and slightly diphthongized toward /ei/, but this is not as
>>>>>>> pronounced as I've heard in some accents. Does anyone know where
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> features might co-occur?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Randall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Language: Defining dreams for millennia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Randall Gess
>>>>>>> Professor and Director
>>>>>>> School of Linguistics and Language Studies
>>>>>>> 215 Paterson Hall, Carleton University
>>>>>>> 1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa ON K1S 5B6
>>>>>>> Tel: (613) 520-6612 Fax: (613) 520-6641
>>>>>>> Email: randall_gess at carleton.ca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The information in this message, including any attachments, is
>>>>>>> privileged and may contain confidential information intended
>>>>>>> only for
>>>>>>> the person(s) named above. Any other distribution, copying or
>>>>>>> disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient or have received this message in error, please notify
>>>>>>> Carleton University immediately by reply email at the contact
>>>>>>> listed
>>>>>>> above and permanently delete the original transmission from us,
>>>>>>> including any attachments, without making a copy. Carleton
>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>> is fully compliant with the Freedom of Information and
>>>>>>> Protection of
>>>>>>> Privacy Act and appreciates your cooperation in this matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>> =E2=80=93=E2=80=93=E2=80=93
>>>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to
>>>>>> die!"=E2=80=93=E2=80=93a stra=
>>> nge complaint to
>>>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>>>> =E2=80=93Mark Twain
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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