Dyslexia and English Orthography was "surprise"

[Laurence Horn]

At 3:36 PM -0500 2/22/09, Mark Mandel wrote:
>Larry wrote, replying to Gerald Walton [full context below]:
>
>>  Or would these all be acceptable to cite because invoking them
>>would involve not *using* but *mentioning* obscene words?
>
>I think so. He and Scot(?) both DID say "use", and all your examples
>are mentions. The difference, of course, is enormous. In explaining it
>to non-linguists in the context of taboo words, I've successfully used
>the analogy of a forensic chemist who WORKS WITH poisons and toxins
>all the time, but never USES them on himself or others.
>
>   forensic chemistry : work with :: linguistics : mention
>
>m a m

Maybe so in general, Mark, but not in the context of this discussion.
You'll recall that the argument for avoiding obscenity was initiated
by Tom Z's, whose response to my posting was as follows:

=================
Worlds collide.

I don't need your vulgar world.

I'm here for kids.  Simple phonetic spelling.  Simplicity of
standardized pronunciation in a way most communicative.  Simple
teaching for enhanced learning of English.

What's important to you has zero importance to me.  In fact it
saddens me.  Slang dosen't bother me.  Gratuitous vulgarity does.
=================
But I can imagine a different response that distinguishes between use
and mention, as noted above.


LH

>
>On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  At 5:11 PM -0600 2/21/09, Gerald Walton wrote [quoting Scot LaFaive??]:
>>  >  > So I'm wondering why so many academics enjoy using obscene or
>>scatalogical
>>  >>  terms in these "scholarly" postings. I'm wondering if those
>>who ply their
>>  >>  trade in classrooms & libraries feel like they need to demonstrate that
>>  >>  they are really pretty edgy.
>>  >
>>  >I had a forty-year career in university teaching and administration.
>>  >I didn't use obscenity in the classroom or elsewhere simply because,
>>  >unlike Scot, I never felt that I needed to use obscene words as
>>  >"exactly the word[s] necessary for a given thought." I, however, am
>>  >not bothered in the least if others use it. I agree that "we are all
>>  >mature enough to handle the occasional
>>  >obscenity." In my view, far fewer obscene or scatalogical words are
>>  >used in classrooms and libraries than are used in other parts of our world.
>>  >Gerald
>>
>>  Doesn't it depend on what you're teaching?   I teach a class in words
>>  and word-formation, and would find it extremely difficult discussing
>>  infixing without going into the rules for "fuckin" insertion, which
>>  have been described extensively in the professional literature (cf.
>>  McCawley on where you can shove infixes) and constitute a superb
>>  illustration of tacit rule-learning (given that our parents and
>>  teachers never taught us that while "Massa-fuckin-chusetts" is
>>  well-formed, we should never say "Connecti-fuckin-cut", because of
>>  the metrical constraints we'd be violating).  Nor am I prepared to
>>  eliminate "FUCK" ('for unlawful carnal knowledge', 'fornication under
>>  consent of the king', etc. etc.) from the inventory of faux acronyms
>>  when I'm discussing the byways of etymythology just because of the
>>  obscenity involved.  Or when you're talking about the dialect
>>  interference between British and U.S. English, should we avoid
>>  mentioning "pissed" ('angry' vs. 'drunk') along with "knocked up"?
>>  And should I eliminate discussing the loss of "cock" and "ass" from
>>  American English in favor of "rooster" and "donkey" as instance of
>>  taboo avoidance, following Bloomfield (1933)?  Or maybe just not
>>  mention taboo avoidance as a factor in lexical change?  Or would
>>  these all be acceptable to cite because invoking them would involve
>>  not *using* but *mentioning* obscene words?
>>
>>  LH
>
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