ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)

Wed Feb 25 17:45:08 UTC 2009

At 12:15 PM -0500 2/25/09, Wilson Gray wrote:
>I agree, except for one minor quibble. Is there really an audible
>distinction between an unrounded /u/ and a barred /i/? I willing to be
>taken to school on this point.
>
>-Wilson

Maybe it's a dialect split.  ;-)

For me, the unrounded /u/ is the symbol the IPA
uses an upside-down m for, and I think of it as
the vowel in the Japanese pronounciation of the
first syllable of "sukiyaki" (except that that's
voiceless).  The barred i is central rather than
back.  So I think what I'm saying is that a
barred i is to an unrounded u (the upside-down m)
as a printed [a] (the stressed vowel of "Chicago"
as pronounced by its natives, or maybe the French
or Italian /a/) is to the script [a] of "father"
or "hot", the difference being that between
central and back.  (The IPA's printed a is
basically positioned as an [æ] only lower and a
little more backed, which I've never
understood.)LH

>---
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>-Mark Twain
>
>
>
>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Laurence Horn
><laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the
>>mail header -----------------------
>>  Sender: ?  ?  ?  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster: ?  ?  ?  Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  Subject: ?  ?  ? Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 11:36 AM -0500 2/25/09, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>FWIW, a friend of mine, a native of Worcester, pronounces the name
>>>something like "Wistuh." I heard the same or, at least, a very similar
>>>pronunciation, used here in Boston by a guy who said that he had been
>>>to - not "lived in" - "Wistuh." I'd expect a lower vowel than what is
>>>probably an unrounded /u/. Naturally, another possibility is that my
>>>hearing simply isn't what it used to be.
>>>
>>>-Wilson
>>
>>  The *real* natives did front the stressed vowel more than suggested
>>  by my implied [U] below, but not really lowered to a wedge [^]
>>  either, I don't think. ? Maybe a stressed barred-i? ? Of course the
>>  unrounding is a bit tricky to extract because of the rounded /w/ it
>>  follows, but I think barred-i gets us pretty close: ? neither as back
>>  as in "wuss" nor as front as in "wistful".
>>
>>  LH
>>
>>>---
>>>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>-----
>>>-Mark Twain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com> wrote:
>>>>  ? ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>  ? Sender: ? ? ? ? ? ? American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>  ? Poster: ? ? ? ? ? ? Amy West <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
>>>>  ? Subject: ? ? ? ? ? Re: ADS-L Digest - 22
>>>>Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>  ? OK, now I'm understanding what Paul Johnston described as the lip
>>>>  ? /r/. (I don't have a good phonological background).
>>>>
>>>>  ? I'm here in Worcester, though not a native. There is only one kid in
>>>>  ? my son's cohort who speaks like that, and it sounds funny to the rest
>>>>  ? of the cohort.
>>>>
>>>>  ? Woo State has a Communications Sciences and Disorders department with
>>>>  ? a clinic. If people are interested in investigating this as an aspect
>>>>  ? of a standard or nonstandard Worcester accent, perhaps we can enlist
>>>>  ? their aid in getting some hard data. Not just from the clinic, which
>>>>  ? would be biased, but having students do surveys, etc.
>>>>
>>>>  ? Right now, my impression is that if it is not classified as a "speech
>>>>  ? impediment/defect" it is a nonstandard variant of the local
>>>>  ? accent/pronunciation.
>>>>
>>>>  ? ---Amy West
>>>>  ? residing in Worcester almost 4 years
>  >>> ? working here almost 8 years
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Date: ? ? ? Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:45:41 -0500
>>>>>From: ? ? ? Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>>>Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>
>>>>>At 9:58 AM -0600 2/23/09, Barbara Need wrote:
>>>>>>I am not a native of Massachusetts, but i lived north of Boston for
>>>>>>nine years from 9.5. I never heard anyone up in Essex county who
>>>>>>sounded like Barbara Walters--and no one ever pronounced my first name
>>>>>>the way she is stereotyped as saying hers. (I remember people in my
>>>>>>neck of the woods making fun of her!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Barbara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I just checked with my daughter, who recently endured...er, spent
>>>>>four years as an undergraduate in Worcester (a.k.a. Wuhsta), and she
>>>>>doesn't recall anyone speaking quite like BW, despite the rampant
>>>>>non-rhoticity. ? "Babra" si, "Babwa" no.
>>>>>
>>>>>LH
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>
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