ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
Herb Stahlke
hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
Thu Feb 26 04:29:46 UTC 2009
ÿ
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
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> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
When I've taught English phonetics, I've used the inverted v for this
vowel, following more common English usage. When I've taught IPA,
I've used inverted lower case a. In Inland Northern, or at least in
mine from rural SE Michigan, there is no inverted v, lower-mid back
unrounded. There's a lower-mid central vowel that's probably more
accurately represented by IPA reverse epsilon. Inverted lower case a
is actually a little lower. Inverted v, Cardinal 14, is a sound I
identify as closer to the vowel of "mud" in a more Southern
pronunciation, which is lower mid unrounded, but farther back than in
Inland Northern.
Herb
> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 6:17 PM -0500 2/25/09, Herb Stahlke wrote:
>>I have a contrast between "just" meaning "fair" and the adverb "just"
>>as in "just a minute." The adjective has inverted lower case a, the
>>lower mid central vowel. The adverb has barred i.
>>
>>Herb
>
> Hmmm. I agree about the barred-i for the adverb,
> but for me the adjective has something more like
> a wedge. Or maybe I've never actually considered
> what that upside-down print a is and whether or
> not it's part of my inventory; I see on the IPA
> chart that it's slightly less back than the wedge
> and slightly lower. I really have no idea;
> vowels are tough cookies.
>
> LH
>
>>
>>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Paul A Johnston, Jr.
>><paul.johnston at wmich.edu> wrote:
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>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: "Paul A Johnston, Jr." <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Wilson,
>>> Yes, there is, and there are probably
>>>languages (most likely in Northern Asia) that
>>>contrast the two.
>>> To me, the unrounded /u/ has lower pitch, and
>>>sounds more "/u/-like" to someone who doesn't
>>> have one; the barred /i/ sounds more /i/ or
>>>/I/ like. Compare the Japanese u to the
>>>Russian sound
>>> written with what looks like a joined b and I.
>>>Many of us will have a lowered barred /i/ in
>>>things like
>>> rib, rip, and when unstressed in many words (I
>>>have it in the second syllable of things like
>>>chicken).
>>> Unrounded /u/ is sporadic at best in
>>>English--I've worked with dialects that usually
>>>have unrounded
>>> /o/ in CUP, and unrounded /u/ in this class
>>>occurs, but at very low frequency.
>>>
>>> Paul Johnston
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:15 pm
>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>>
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>>>> -----------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------
>>>>
>>>> I agree, except for one minor quibble. Is there really an audible
>>>> distinction between an unrounded /u/ and a barred /i/? I willing to be
>>>> taken to school on this point.
>>>>
>>>> -Wilson
>>>> â¤"â¤"â¤"
>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>> -----
>>>> -Mark Twain
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Laurence Horn
>>>> <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>>>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------
>>>> -------------
>>>> > Sender: Â Â Â American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> > Poster: Â Â Â Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>> > Subject: Â Â Â Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009
>>>> (#2009-55)
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------------
>>>> >
>>>> > At 11:36 AM -0500 2/25/09, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>> >>FWIW, a friend of mine, a native of Worcester, pronounces the name
>>>> >>something like "Wistuh." I heard the same or, at least, a very
>>>> similar>>pronunciation, used here in Boston by a guy who said that
>> >> he had been
>>>> >>to - not "lived in" - "Wistuh." I'd expect a lower vowel than
>>>> what is
>>>> >>probably an unrounded /u/. Naturally, another possibility is that my
>>>> >>hearing simply isn't what it used to be.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>-Wilson
>>>> >
>>>> > The *real* natives did front the stressed vowel more than suggested
>>>> > by my implied [U] below, but not really lowered to a wedge [^]
>>>> > either, I don't think. Â Maybe a stressed barred-i? Â Of course the
>> >> > unrounding is a bit tricky to extract because of the rounded /w/ it
>>>> > follows, but I think barred-i gets us pretty close: Â neither as
>>>> back> as in "wuss" nor as front as in "wistful".
>>>> >
>>>> > LH
>>>> >
>>>> >>---
>>>> >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>>>> complaint to
>>>> >>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>> >>-----
>>>> >>-Mark Twain
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com>
>>>> wrote:>>> Â ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> >>>-----------------------
>>>> >>> Â Sender: ? Â ? Â ? Â American Dialect Society <ADS-
>>>> L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>>> Â Poster: ? Â ? Â ? Â Amy West
>>>> <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
>>>> >>> Â Subject: ? Â ? Â ? Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb
>>>> 2009 (#2009-55)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Â OK, now I'm understanding what Paul Johnston described as the
>>>> lip>>> Â /r/. (I don't have a good phonological background).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Â I'm here in Worcester, though not a native. There is only one
>>>> kid in
>>>> >>> Â my son's cohort who speaks like that, and it sounds funny to
>>>> the rest
>>>> >>> Â of the cohort.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Â Woo State has a Communications Sciences and Disorders
>>>> department with
>>>> >>> Â a clinic. If people are interested in investigating this as
>>>> an aspect
>>>> >>> Â of a standard or nonstandard Worcester accent, perhaps we can
>>>> enlist>>> Â their aid in getting some hard data. Not just from the
>>>> clinic, which
>>>> >>> Â would be biased, but having students do surveys, etc.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Â Right now, my impression is that if it is not classified as a
>>>> "speech>>> Â impediment/defect" it is a nonstandard variant of the
>>>> local>>> Â accent/pronunciation.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Â ---Amy West
>>>> >>> Â residing in Worcester almost 4 years
>>>> >>> Â working here almost 8 years
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>Date: ? Â ? Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:45:41 -0500
>>>> >>>>From: ? Â ? Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>> >>>>Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>At 9:58 AM -0600 2/23/09, Barbara Need wrote:
>>>> >>>>>I am not a native of Massachusetts, but i lived north of
>>>> Boston for
>>>> >>>>>nine years from 9.5. I never heard anyone up in Essex county who
>>>> >>>>>sounded like Barbara Walters--and no one ever pronounced my
>>>> first name
>>>> >>>>>the way she is stereotyped as saying hers. (I remember people
>>>> in my
>>>> >>>>>neck of the woods making fun of her!)
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>Barbara
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>I just checked with my daughter, who recently endured...er, spent
>>>> >>>>four years as an undergraduate in Worcester (a.k.a. Wuhsta),
>>>> and she
>>>> >>>>doesn't recall anyone speaking quite like BW, despite the rampant
>>>> >>>>non-rhoticity. ? "Babra" si, "Babwa" no.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>LH
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Â ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>> Â The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
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>>>> >
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>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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