pron. of just

Tom Zurinskas truespel at HOTMAIL.COM
Sun Mar 1 04:55:25 UTC 2009


Here goes the shameful name calling again.  Arrogant.  Ignorant.

The Jesuit illusion is appropriate.  There is a lot of linguistic bible thumping going on.  If you're not from our religion, you're not even entitled to hold an opinion.  Shameful.


Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com













----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:35:26 -0500
> From: hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: pron. of just
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Herb Stahlke
> Subject: Re: pron. of just
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ron,
>
> I keep telling myself not to be drawn in, but obviously I haven't
> convinced myself. I'll say again what I think I said to Mark years
> ago: We seem to be dealing with a case of what the Jesuits used to
> call "invincible ignorance."
>
> Herb
>
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:34 PM, wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: RonButters at AOL.COM
>> Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20[ADS-L]=20pron.=20o?
>> = =?ISO-8859-1?Q?f=20just?=
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Herb,
>> I am sure that TZ cannot quite get away from being influenced bny the=20
>> conventional spelling of vowels. However, it seems to me that part of the pr=
>> oblem is=20
>> that the arrogant Mr. Z refuses to acknowledge (1) the possibility that his=20
>> "ear" may be wrong and (2) that the pronunciations of normally variable=20
>> syllables do not HAVE TO BE (in the prescriptive sense) whatever chance vari=
>> ation may=20
>> occur (or he thinks he hears) in the sound file in the pronunciation on the=20
>> M-W web site. So if the voice says (or seems to TZ to say) [sekrIteri] (wher=
>> e by=20
>> [l] I intend to indicate a barred-cap-i and by the [i] to indicate a=20
>> barred-noncap-i) then that is the ONLY POSSIBLE "CORRECT" PRONUNCIATION of t=
>> he vowel=20
>> in the second syllable. But if Z hears a schwa instead of [I], then he=20
>> believes that "secretary" MUST be pronounced with a schwa and [I] is not jus=
>> t=20
>> variable, it is WRONG. So he gets confused when he sees M-W (which is appare=
>> ntly=20
>> written by God) representing these phonetic variations with a schwa, and tha=
>> t is=20
>> why he says that schwa is a symbol that represents several sounds. It does n=
>> ot=20
>> matter what the IPA says, what matters for him is the behavior of the sacred=
>> =20
>> text, the M-W (and of course the so fine an ear with which he is gifted, to=20
>> paraphrase Yeats).
>>
>> Z's "system" cannot abide free variation, let alone dialect variation.=20
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 2/28/09 6:46:42 PM, hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM writes:
>>
>>
>>> I checked the IPA web site.=A0 The IPA shows schwa in its vowel chart
>>> specifically as an unrounded mid central vowel
>>> (http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/vowels.html).=A0 The IPA transcription of
>>> "International Phonetic Association" represents the RP pronunciation
>>> in which all five schwas are that unrounded mid central vowel.=A0 They
>>> do not represent other vowel sounds.=A0 They may correspond to different
>>> spellings, but that's irrelevant.=A0 And note that "association" is
>>> transcribed with a final syllabic /n/.
>>>=20
>>> Herb
>>>=20
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your=20
>> neighborhood today.=20
>> (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=3DTax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing=
>> &ncid=3Demlcntusyelp00000004)
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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