velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday

Sun Mar 8 01:23:47 UTC 2009

I suspect everyone on this list is familiar with Canadian Raising.

Herb

On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> We need to hear these words.  Can you speak them to us in any of the ways I've sent voice files to this forum.
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> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
> see truespel.com
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>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 18:48:22 -0500
>> From: hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> My SE Michigan variant of Inland Northern distinguishes raised and
>> lowered diphthong onsets. This looks like Canadian Raising except
>> that in certain environments, including open syllables and before /d/
>> and /nd/, it's phonemic. So I distinguish the following:
>>
>> k at Ind "variety, sort"
>> kVInd "well-disposed"
>>
>> r at Und (preposition, as in "round the corner")
>> rVUnd (adj., as in "round ball")
>>
>> h at I (greeting, "hello")
>> hVI (adj., "high")
>>
>> b at rd "poet"
>> bVrd "barred"
>>
>> These contrasts cannot be captured a system based on broadcast AmE or
>> any other single dialect, unless, of course, it's mine.
>>
>> Of course, SE Mich isn't unique. Any regional or social dialect in
>> AmE has its own contrasts that require phonemes distinct from some
>> putative standard.
>>
>> Herb
>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> The problem is that tradspel English is actually the oddly spelled one. But we're all used to it. Once the spelling of the 40 phonemes are learned one can read anything phonetically in the USA dialect it represents. Other symbols are needed for the other languages and dialects.
>>>
>>> I do be believe that US dialects are all within the USA English foenubet (set of sounds).
>>>
>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>> see truespel.com
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>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:05:22 -0500
>>>> From: sagehen7470 at ATT.NET
>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Alison Murie
>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> I must assume that you preface each sentence with the ordinary English
>>>> spelling because you know that most people won't be able to read the
>>>> rather odd language that truespel apparently represents. That rather
>>>> suggests that its vaunted transparency has been overstated.
>>>> AM
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> On Mar 7, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> ~! indicates my accent (at start and finish)
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, why don't you post using truespel
>>>>> ~!Taam, Wie doent yue poest yuezeeng truespel~!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure thing. I also would like to find a phonetic converter for IPA
>>>>> to show a comparison. Note that all accents vary.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~!Sher thheeng. Ie aulsoe wood liek tue fiend u funnedik kunvverter
>>>>> for IPA tue shoe u kumppairisin. Noet that aul aksents vairee.~!
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically if you run your finger along the phonemes and speak them,
>>>>> you are speaking as I speak.
>>>>> ~!Basiklee if yue run yer feenger ullaung thu foeneemz and speek
>>>>> them, yue aar speekeeng az Ie speek.~!
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that stress is on the first syllable or after a double consonant.
>>>>> ~!Noet that stres iz aan thu ferst silubool or after u dubool
>>>>> kaansunint.~!
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>>> see truespel.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:45:48 -0500
>>>>>> From: sagehen7470 at ATT.NET
>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Alison Murie
>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom, why don't you post using truespel?
>>>>>> AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I forgot Herb. Books are right and people are wrong. Thanks for
>>>>>>> the insight.
>>>>>>
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