Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)

Tom Zurinskas truespel at HOTMAIL.COM
Fri Mar 13 02:50:30 UTC 2009


You don't understand what I said?  I thought it was simple and clear.  You on the other hand are not clear about what you need explained.  What was unclear?


Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com



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> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:30:09 -0400
> From: hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Herb Stahlke
> Subject: Re: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You're inventing your own imprecise terminology for concepts and
> objects for what carefully developed, well-founded terms exist, but
> for some reason you choose not to learn them. They're in books
> written by people, people who have studied this stuff and know what
> they're doing.
>
> Herb
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I can make that "l" fricative sound. Just keep the tongue flat and pinch the cheeks in and get a fricative around the tongue and cheeks when making an "l".
>>
>> I Can't do a velar or uvular "l" if I try. I would say "l" is not velar of uvular at all, alveolar.
>>
>> I think "l" works like "m". where for "m" there is a vocal component while the lips are together then releases when the lips part to say a vowel. Just so the "l" has a vocal (vowelish) component that releases when the tongue flaps down.
>>
>> Most salient "l" is Joe Namath's. I think he does it with a wide rather than narrow tongue.
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
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>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:22:45 -0400
>>> From: paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Paul Johnston
>>> Subject: Re: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> It's due to the aspiration, I think. I don't have a fricative in
>>> blue, glue.
>>>
>>> Paul Johnston
>>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Herb Stahlke wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
>>>> Subject: Re: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Is the sense of a lateral fricative a result of the aspiration of
>>>> initial /p/? Or is there clear lateral constriction and resulting
>>>> turbulence?
>>>>
>>>> Herb
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Paul A Johnston, Jr.
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: "Paul A Johnston, Jr."
>>>>> Subject: Re: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----------
>>>>>
>>>>> As a kid, I had this in onset position--it was one of the features
>>>>> I went to speech therapy (in IL) for. I don't know how widespread
>>>>> it is in NY/NJ/E PA, but I get the feeling I wasn't alone. In a
>>>>> word like "play", it was some kind of lateral fricative, too. I
>>>>> still sporadically come out with one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Johnston
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Neal Whitman
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:46 pm
>>>>> Subject: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------
>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Neal Whitman
>>>>>> Subject: Uvular /l/ (Was: velarized /l/ again)
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some people use a different gesture involving the back of their
>>>>>> tongue to
>>>>>> make an /l/: a uvular nasal consonant. (It's represented as [N] in
>>>>>> IPA,which unfortunately is ambiguous here, since [N] is also SAMPA
>>>>>> for the velar
>>>>>> nasal.) I wrote about in a couple of short posts:
>>>>>> http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2006/05/21/totally-uvular/
>>>>>> http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2007/01/10/lsa-2007-l-and-s-at-
>>>>>> the/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neal Whitman
>>>>>> Email: nwhitman at ameritech.net
>>>>>> Blog: http://literalminded.wordpress.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Herb Stahlke"
>>>>>> To:
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:31 PM
>>>>>> Subject: velarized /l/ again
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>>>> header -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
>>>>>>> Subject: velarized /l/ again
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> --------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wilson mentioned in the previous thread that /l/ tends not to be
>>>>>>> velarized in AAE, at least certainly not as much in other AmE
>>>>>>> varieties. I've noticed this week the word "colleague"
>>>>>> pronounced on
>>>>>>> TV by two African Americans, one I think an Olympic track
>>>>>> athlete in a
>>>>>>> cell phone ad and the other Ice T on Law and Order SVU. Both
>>>>>>> pronounced the /l/ without velarization and clearly the onset of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> second syllable. In my speech the /l/ is ambisyllabic, begins
>>>>>>> velarized and ends unvelarized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Herb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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