Hot news perfect question

ronbutters at AOL.COM ronbutters at AOL.COM
Tue Nov 17 22:08:39 UTC 2009

I don't understand. He agrees that what the guard has said is correct. How is that not agreeing to the correction? The fact that he has more to say about the subject is irrelevant to his interpretation, and immediate response to, the guard's utterance.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:37:09
To: <ronbutters at>
Subject: Re: Hot news perfect question

The guard knows that the plays are put on in the afternoon. He wants
to know why Shakespeare is heading there now since it's morning. So
Shakespeare isn't agreeing to the correction so much as getting ready
to inform the guard that rehearsals are required to make the plays
look good. Hence, he's heading there so early in the day. BB

On Nov 17, 2009, at 1:17 PM, ronbutters at wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
> Subject:      Re: Hot news perfect question
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Or just that Shakespeare agreed to the correction, which it seems
> like he was doing.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:06:27
> Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] Hot news perfect question
> At 11/17/2009 10:32 AM, ronbutters at AOL.COM wrote:
>> In my variety of American English, if one says, "I thought that X,"
>> in response to someone else's assertion, the intended inference is a
>> more or less polite contradiction. I think that that is what the
>> "after knowing" constriction means.
> That's what I wondered (read it as) initially, but the "Shakespeare
> agreed" suggests that the "[Irish guard]" knew, and was making a
> positive statement.
> Joel
>> One could also use the pluperfect, but it is not the case that the
>> "after knowing" construction means the same thing as the pluperfect.
>> Why is this called "hot news"? Doesn't seem appropriate.
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Gordon, Matthew J.
>> Sender: ADS-L
>> To: ADS-L
>> ReplyTo: ADS-L
>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Hot news perfect question
>> Sent: Nov 17, 2009 10:12 AM
>> I think that "I'm after knowing X" can mean "I've just found out X",
>> but I'm no expert. Anyway this interpretation doesn't particularly
>> make sense in the context you cite. Is there any reason to believe
>> this is an authentic usage and not some "Mock Irish English"? After
>> all, the after-perfect is a stereotype of Irish dialects along the
>> lines of invariant 'be' for African American English, and the latter
>> shows up all the time in grammatically inappropriate (per AAE
>> grammar) contexts in made-up samples of African American usage (e.g.
>> It be hot today).
>> -Matt Gordon
>> On 11/16/09 4:24 PM, "Benjamin Barrett" <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>> One page 355 of Harry Turtledove's _Ruled Britannia (Roc, Sept 2003),
>> a novel of alternate history, he uses the form of the hot news
>> perfect:
>> -----
>> "I'm for the Theatre," Shakespeare answered [in the morning].
>> "Faith, are you indeed?" the [Irish guard] said. "Riddle my why,
>> then.
>> I'm **after knowing** these plays run of afternoons."
>> "In sooth, they do," Shakespeare agreed.
>> -----
>> The Wikipedia page on Hiberno-English
>> (
>> )
>> says that the hot news perfect is used as the pluperfect.
>> Here the meaning is "To my knowledge, these plays run in the
>> afternoon" or perhaps "As I have known, these plays run in the
>> afternoon" which seems at odds with the Wikipedia explanation.
>> Is there something else going on here?
>> Benjamin Barrett
>> Seattle, WA

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