Talmudic source for (1617) Quotation: How a man should clothe himself, his children, & his wife

[Joel S. Berson]

[I have corrected my error in the Subject line:  the date is 1617
(Purchas), not 1717.]

At 10/23/2009 01:32 PM, Mark Mandel wrote:

>There is indeed an oft-cited Rabbi Hanina, in fact at least two of that
>name:
>
>R. Hanina b[en] Hama (died about 250); often cited just as R. Hanina, and
>sometimes as ha-Gadol `the Great'
>(http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=241&letter=H)
>
>R. Hanina b. Dosa (1st century)
>(http://www.jewishsearch.com/article_407.html)

A sad story -- After going to the library to print the page from
Purchas and not find in the Jewish Encyclopedia Rabbi Haurica, only
after returning home did I read the Purchas page, to discover he was Hanina!

>As for this quotation, Google finds the following in the Talmud (Tractate
>Chullin), attributed to R. Avira. This is from G's HTML version (*
>http://tinyurl.com/ygw78m2)*; the PDF (*http://tinyurl.com/yfw9cd6) *is
>inaccessible at the moment.

I do not see a date for this.  Is it someone's modern translation (at
least, more modern than 1617)?  All I find in the Harvard catalog for
"keywords = talmud bavli hullin" is in Hebrew, and in fact from 1751
or later.  So that seems to leave Purchas as the earliest in English.

Also, the quotation is not a "modern Jewish adage" if it was actually
spoken by Hanina!  Or is Avira later, and is renowned Hebraic scholar
Drusius's attribution to Hanina incorrect?

>...
>VI.
>BAVLI HULLIN
>CHAPTER SIX
>FOLIOS 83B-89B
>
>Page 6
>...
>
>======
>
>This 1889 version (*http://tinyurl.com/yzsusey)* looks like a swipe from
>Hawthorne. (Title page material corrected for apparent OCR errors.)

I looked for the adage via Google Books only earlier than 1866, when
excerpts from Hawthorne's notebooks, as redacted by Sophia, were
first published in the Atlantic Monthly.

Joel


>=====
>
>A FAMILY TREE And Other Stories
>BY BRANDER MATTHEWS
>
>NEW YORK
>LONGMANS, GREEN, & CO
>15 EAST SIXTEENTH STREET
>1889
>
>Copyright, 1889, by BRANDER MATTHEWS
>
>...
>
>NOTES OF AN UNEVENTFUL VOYAGE. 127
>
>" You will observe," he continued, " that I
>have emerged from my stateroom this morning
>crowned with the high hat of civilization, al-
>though it looks as rough as the buffalo-robe of
>barbarism. Observe, also, our fellow-passengers
>of the female persuasion. There's a modern Jew-
>ish adage, I believe, that a man should clothe
>himself beneath his ability, his children according
>to his ability, and his wife above his ability.

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