"the apocryphal HDAS III"

[Garson O'Toole]

Sam Clements wrote
>
> I think I stand corrected.
>
> But, I personally doubt that Sturgeon had in mind that 90% of everything
> written is crud, even thought he said it.    He may have.  I don't know.

Here is more of the context for the 1958 citation given in the OED entry:

[1958 T. H. STURGEON in Venture Sci. Fiction Mar. 66/2 It is in this
vein that I repeat Sturgeon's Revelation, which was wrung out of me
after twenty years of wearying defense of science fiction against the
attacks of people..whose conclusion was that ninety percent of s f is
crud. The Revelation: Ninety percent of everything is crud.

> Sam Clements
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Garson O'Toole" <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 23:35
> Subject: Re: "the apocryphal HDAS III"
>
>
>> The YBQ entry is readable by following the link below:
>>
>> The version stating that "Ninety percent of everything is crud"
>> appeared in March 1958 in Venture Science Fiction. Other versions are
>> described including one that begins "Ninety percent of science fiction
>> is crud. But then ninety percent of everything is crud, and ..."
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=w5-GR-qtgXsC&q=crud#v=snippet&
>>
>> Garson
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>> header -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: "the apocryphal HDAS III"
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> At 11:12 PM -0400 8/4/10, Sam Clements wrote:
>>>>What Sturgeon actually said, accordint to Fred Shapiro's wonderful,
>>>>ground-breaking tome, is
>>>>
>>>>"Ninety percent of Science Fiction is Crud."
>>>
>>> But isn't that just a concession that leads up to the punchline which
>>> is indeed "Ninety percent of everything is crud" (standing in for
>>> "crap")?
>>>
>>> LH
>>>
>>>>Extrapolations invited.
>>>>
>>>>Sam Clements
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Mark Mandel" <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 23:06
>>>>Subject: Re: "the apocryphal HDAS III"
>>>>
>>>>>Sturgeon's Law: 98% of everything is crap.
>>>>>
>>>>>m a m
>>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Alice Faber <faber at haskins.yale.edu>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 8/3/10 6:27 PM, Dave Wilton wrote:
>>>>>>>  There may be a sample bias here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  An American is more likely to encounter an English writer who makes
>>>>>>>  their
>>>>>>living off writing--novelists, essayists, etc., but will typically
>>>>>>encounter
>>>>>>a much broader range of American writers, including business people,
>>>>>>doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. Creative and witty writing is not
>>>>>>necessarily rewarded in these other field. (Nor should it be,
>>>>>>especially;
>>>>>>I'd rather have an ironclad contract written in impenetrable jargon
>>>>>>than
>>>>>>one
>>>>>>with clauses of dubious legality that is a wonder to read).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  As to my experience in negotiations, I'd give my American colleagues
>>>>>>higher marks for wit, creativity, nonconformity, and argumentation any
>>>>>>day.
>>>>>>But then I only dealt with a single British diplomat on a regular
>>>>>>basis,
>>>>>>so
>>>>>>I wouldn't judge the entire British diplomatic corps on that one
>>>>>>example.
>>>>>>(I'm not saying he wasn't competent, just not a sterling example of
>>>>>>rhetorical and literary expertise.) Plus, I knew a bunch of zeroes on
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>American side, too--including one who, in a very late night of
>>>>>>negotiations
>>>>>>lost it and called the Israeli delegate a "liar." (Not the most shining
>>>>>>moment of American diplomacy.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Indeed. Back in the 80s, PBS stations in the US regularly aired various
>>>>>>British sitcoms. These were much wittier than the comparable American
>>>>>>comedies. In the winter of 1985 (or so), I went to England for a
>>>>>>conference at Oxford. One of the things I was looking forward to was a
>>>>>>chance to see more British sitcoms. Well...then I saw the ones that PBS
>>>>>>hadn't picked up...All I can say is ouch.
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>========================================================================
>>>>>>Alice Faber
>>>>>>faber at haskins.yale.edu
>>>>>>Haskins Laboratories                            tel: (203) 865-6163
>>>>>>x258
>>>>>>New Haven, CT 06511 USA                               fax (203)
>>>>>>865-8963
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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>>>
>>
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