further adventures of "ironic"

[RonButters at AOL.COM]

It seems that the border between what is "feebly" ironic and what is 
robustly ironic is in the eye of the beholder.

In a message dated 6/8/10 12:30:34 PM, george.thompson at nyu.edu writes:


> 
> > One sense of IRONY is 'a situation in which things do not turn out as
> > one of the participants would expect' (dramatic irony). I suppose the
> > player did not expect that all of his homers would have been hit
> > against the Tigers. The Tigers were probably even more surprised.
> 
> Surely this is a very feeble rationale for this sort of statement?
> Several years ago I heard one sportscaster say to another "It's ironic 
> that [some slightly amusing trivial coincidence which I have forgotten].  The 
> other replied, no, it's merely a happenstance.
> 
> GAT
> 
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern 
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: RonButters <ronbutters at aol.com>
> Date: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 10:37 am
> Subject: Re: further adventures of "ironic"
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> 
> > One sense of IRONY is 'a situation in which things do not turn out as
> > one of the participants would expect' (dramatic irony). I suppose the
> > player did not expect that all of his homers would have been hit
> > against the Tigers. The Tigers were probably even more surprised.
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:13:38
> > To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] further adventures of "ironic"
> >
> > It seems to me that "the standard meaning of *ironic*" these days,
> > (unless you are in the company of English majors, which god forbid) is
> > "marked by a slightly amusing trivial coincidence".  I hear on sports
> > broadcasts "He's hit only 3 homeruns this season, and, ironically,
> > they have all been against the Tigers."  The drift from that to
> > whatever Tocco may have had in mind seems to me to be inevitable.
> >
> > GAT
> >
> > George A. Thompson
> > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> > Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rick Barr <rickbarremail at gmail.com>
> > Date: Monday, June 7, 2010 3:19 pm
> > Subject: Re: further adventures of "ironic"
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > > It's an odd phrase, to say that closing down the street for the 
> languid
> > > parade was very ironic. I agree with George that "strange" is probably
> > > what
> > > the speaker had in mind. But it's a special kind of strange, nuanced
> > > by the
> > > standard meaning of *ironic*, involving a disparity between two things
> > > (the
> > > real and the one that is presented, the intended meaning and the 
> stated
> > > one). I think that's what the speaker was aiming for, that it was
> > > strange to
> > > see such a disparity between the size of the parade and the magnitude
> > > of the
> > > chaos produced by it. I haven't seen other examples of this sort of
> > > "ironic." Might the fact that the man was feeling IRate have prompted
> > > the
> > > choice of IRonic?
> > >
> > > -- Rick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 11:05 AM, George Thompson <
> george.thompson at nyu.edu>wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > > > Subject:      further adventures of "ironic"
> > > >
> > > > 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > An article in today's NYTimes on street processions in the 
> Williamsburgh
> > > > area, honoring patron saints, specifically St. Cono, of Teggiano,
> > Italy.
> > > >  (section A, p. 16, column 1, for those of us still bound to 
> print-on-paper)
> > > >  This area of Williamsburgh was until recently largely inhabited by
> > > Italian
> > > > Catholics, but it seems now has a considerable number of young
> > > residents not
> > > > raised to the tradition.
> > > > One (Chris Tocco, 26, an actor) is quoted as saying: "It was a tiny
> > > parade,
> > > > and they shut down Graham Avenue?  There was one float and a horr
> ible
> > > > marching band.  It was very ironic."
> > > > If Mr. Toco were to be asked to pick a replacement for the word 
> "ironic"
> > > > here, he might choose "having the the nature of irony or covert 
> sarcasm;
> > > > meaning the opposite of what is expressed"; he might choose "showing
> > > a
> > > > condition of affairs or events of a character opposite to what was,
> > > or might
> > > > naturally be, expected"; he might even choose "being marked by a 
> slightly
> > > > amusing trivial coincidence"; but I think he would choose "strange".
> > > >
> > > > A 27 year old onlooker offered the insight "It's kind of like a
> > > vestige of
> > > > the old neighborhoods of Brooklyn".  It is like that, indeed, kind
> > of.
> > > >
> > > > (First two defs. adapted from the OED)
> > > >
> > > > GAT
> > > >
> > > > George A. Thompson
> > > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", 
> Northwestern
> > > > Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> 
> 

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org