the importance of not spitting on soldiers

[ronbutters at AOL.COM]

Does this subthread (more like a piece of lint) make ANY sense at all?

If not being spat upon in an airport is a meaningful criterion by which to judge the affection of the American public, then George Bush was as beloved as Abraham Lincoln, neither one having been spat upon in an airport.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Date:         Sun, 23 May 2010 20:35:33
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] Vietnam

At 8:19 PM -0400 5/23/10, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>Just to put numbers in perspective:
>
>There are about 8 million Vietnam veterans.
>If 800 veterans were spat on, that means only 1 in every 10,000 were.
>Do we know how many hundreds of thousands of veterans were spoken to by
>Lembke? If he only spoke to 20,000 or 30,000, it wouldn't be
>statistically surprising he didn't find any.
>
>DanG

Again, it's not really a matter of numbers (as I mentioned in my
previous post about ).  Lembcke  didn't do a random, statistically
controlled survey; what he did was track down the reports of vets
being spat at in airports and ascertaining that none of the reports
were based on first-hand testimony or had other evidence (beyond the
friend-of-a-friend) to support them.  And further, that very similar
stories have popped up at other times, always purveyed by those with
a specific agenda (see his comments on the stab-in-the-back legend in
his remarks at http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2007/02/02/04
but in much more detail in the book itself).  And that in the Vietnam
case the spitting-at-the-airport stories didn't begin popping up
until 1980, five years after the fall of Saigon.

LH

>
>On 5/22/2010 8:38 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society<ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       Laurence Horn<laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>Subject:      Re: Vietnam
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>At 2:09 PM -0400 5/22/10, Bill Palmer wrote:
>>
>>>OK, pure conjecture here, but I'm wondering if the "poisonous atmosphere"
>>>was more or less confined to university campuses, and the more widespread
>>>incidence of it maybe more urban legend than anything.  Hazarding a guess
>>>here, but I'm thinking many/most of the contributors to this list have spent
>>>a good deal of their lives on campus and might have been students or young
>>>faculty at the time
>>>
>>>I say this based purely on personal experience and conversations with
>>>colleagues.  I served in Viet Nam from 1966-67, and again 1968-69, and never
>>>experienced any kind of harassment, vilification, poisoned atmosphere, or
>>>anything close to it in any domestic setting, either on the way out, or on
>>>returning.  I served in the Regular Navy during the entire Vietnam era, and
>>>even when not serving in or in transit to/from VN did I encounter anything
>>>like that directed at me, as someone in uniform (although I read about it
>>>all the time). During the 8 or so years of the Vietnam Era, no one I served
>>>with ever mentioned to me having had such an experience.  I was stationed in
>>>San Diego, Pearl Harbor, Newport RI, Norfolk, and Key West during that time
>>>.  There was a justifiable element of unhappiness with the war within these
>>>communities, but in actual fact, the major poisonous atmosphere extant at
>>>that time was the state of race relations in the Navy, and other services,
>>>too.
>>>
>>>There is a great deal of manufactured self-pity which has been emanating
>>>
>>  >from some disaffected Vietnam vets for 40 years or so, a lot of "poor me,
>>
>>>nobody ever said 'welcome home'".  They need to get over it. And no one is
>>>well served by politicians who ride that horse.
>>>
>>>Bill P
>>>
>>Actually, I was the one who cited the Lembcke book (unless I missed
>>another mention by Mark), but my direct message to ADS last night
>>didn't get through (twice); it showed up only in Ron's excerpting it
>>along with his response.  I found the book useful when I was
>>researching my "Spitten Image" paper (American Speech, 79.1, 2004)
>>and it is cited therein (in the section called "Great Expectorations:
>>Humiliation, Revenge, and the Salivation Army), along with an earlier
>>even uglier parallel in which the "Freikorps" literature after WWI
>>blamed leftists, Jews, and women for spitting in the face of,
>>stabbing in the back (literally), and otherwise humiliating the noble
>>German veterans returning from that war.  This urban legend was one
>>of the elements, as detailed by Klaus Theweleit in a masterful 1987
>>book, justifying the Nazi takeover.
>>
>>Lembcke was looking specifically at the scenario of "hippies"
>>spitting in the face of returning Vietnam vets at airports, only his
>>research showed that no such accounts could ever be verified, they
>>always involved FOAF transmission.
>>
>>LH
>>
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>
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