ont/ahnt

Laurence Horn laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Thu Oct 7 02:50:35 UTC 2010


At 9:47 PM -0400 10/6/10, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>Those are good exx., Larry. Now I can write that poem.
>
>JL

Right; three is enough for a limerick.  The content may have to be a
bit forced, though...

LH

>
>On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  -----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  Subject:      Re: ont/ahnt
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 9:11 PM -0400 10/6/10, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  >Hog rhymes with frog and log.  It has [ a:] as in gaga.
>>  >
>>  >Dog doesn't rhyme with anything I can think of offhand. It has [D: ] as in
>>  >"chalk").
>>
>>  Ditto for me, essentially, but it *could* rhyme with other words.  In
>>  fact it rhymes with "blawg" (a law-based blog, with supposedly 3.95
>>  million g-hits; not to be confused with "blog" itself, which of
>>  course rhymes with "frog" and "log") and with "Smaug" (Tolkien's
>>  dragon, which doesn't rhyme with "smog"), although I concede that
>>  those are spelling pronunciations, since neither comes up much in
>>  ordinary conversation.
>>
>>  LH
>>
>>  >
>>  >On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at wmich.edu
>>  >wrote:
>>  >
>>  >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  -----------------------
>>  >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>>  >>  Subject:      Re: ont/ahnt
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>
>>  >>  Dear Jonathan,
>>  >>  That's my pattern too.  My wife makes fun of my pronunciation of both
>>  dog
>>  >>  and hog, (She has [D]).
>>  >>
>>  >>  Paul Johnston
>>  >>   On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  -----------------------
>>  >>  > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>  >>  > Subject:      Re: ont/ahnt
>>  >>  >
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > Father and bother rhyme perfectly for me.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > Dog and hog don't. At all.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > JL
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Paul Johnston <
>>  paul.johnston at wmich.edu
>>  >>  >wrote:
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  >> -----------------------
>>  >>  >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  >> Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>>  >>  >> Subject:      Re: ont/ahnt
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >> "CON"/"KAHN" would work as [kDn]/[kAn] in the Pittsburgh area, I
>>  think,
>>  >>  and
>>  >>  >> neither would rhyme with "town", which would be [tan].  I just
>>  checked
>>  >>  with
>>  >>  >> two colleagues of mine, one from Canonsburg, PA, the other from
>>  >>  Fairmont,
>>  >>  >> WV, and they had different vowels in father and bother (a
>  > near-minimal
>>  >>  pair)
>>  >>  >> as [A] vs. [D] (rounded low vowel).  The latter is LOT/THOUGHT for
>>  them.
>>  >>  >> The former is, in Wells's terminology, PALM.
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >> Paul Johnston
>>  >>  >> On Oct 6, 2010, at 6:17 PM, David Wake wrote:
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  >> -----------------------
>>  >>  >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  >>> Poster:       David Wake <dwake at STANFORDALUMNI.ORG>
>>  >>  >>> Subject:      Re: ont/ahnt
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> Can you offer a minimal pairs for these dialects?  E.g.
>  > "con"/"Kahn",
>>  >>  >>> perhaps?  I thought that, with the exception of Eastern New
>>  England,
>>  >>  >>> these dialects would all use their LOT vowel (rounded or unrounded)
>>  >>  >>> for both lexical sets.
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> D
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Paul Johnston <
>>  >>  paul.johnston at wmich.edu>
>>  >>  >> wrote:
>>  >>  >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  >> -----------------------
>>  >>  >>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  >>>> Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>>  >>  >>>> Subject:      Re: ont/ahnt
>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>>> Most dialects where the LOT class is a low back ROUNDED vowel will
>>  >>  >> pronounce ont and ahnt differently, particularly because of the /n/
>>  >>  after
>>  >>  >> it-- Eastern New England, the area from Erie PA through Pittsburgh
>>  down
>>  >>  into
>>  >  > >> West Virginia and into Kentucky, several Upper Southern dialects,
>>  >>  Canada--in
>>  >>  >> Eastern New England, the difference should be really striking: [D]
>>  (I
>>  >>  mean
>>  >>  >> the IPA symbol for a low back rounded vowel here) vs. a front [a:].
>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>>> Paul Johnston
>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  >> -----------------------
>>  >>  >>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  >>>>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>  >>  >>>>> Subject:      Re: ont/ahnt
>>  >>  >>>>>
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >>>>>
>>  >>  >>>>> At 10/5/2010 08:49 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>  >>  >>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>  >>  >>>>>>
>>  >>  >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:45 PM, David Wake <
>>  >>  dwake at stanfordalumni.org>
>>  >>  >> wrote:
>>  >>  >>>>>>> "ont"
>>  >>  >>>>>>
>>  >>  >>>>>> In most dialects of AmE, "ont" = "ahnt."
>>  >>  >>>>>
>>  >>  >>>>> Can you give me some examples where it doesn't?  And please don't
>>  say
>>  >>  >>>>> you won't.
>>  >>  >>>>>
>>  >>  >>>>> Joel
>>  >>  >>>>>
>>  >>  >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>  >>  >>>>
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > --
>>  >>  > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>  >>  truth."
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>>  >>
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>>  >>
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >--
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>  > truth."
>>  >
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>>
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>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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