eye dialect was RE: nekkid

Laurence Horn laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Wed Mar 16 15:33:44 UTC 2011 

At 8:07 AM -0400 3/16/11, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>Maybe I'm confused here. If Larry is saying that the spelling "cum" first
>appeared as a noun, that's very probably correct.

That's what I'm saying, plus the suggestion that the category shift
was part of the motivation for the use of a distinct ear-spelling,
and that the intrinsically nominal status of "cum" may have helped
motivate the innovative regular preterit, "cummed".

>
>What I was saying was that the verb "come" clearly antedates the noun.
>Apparently by centuries.

Nobody questions that.  Sorry for any unclarity.

LH

>
>On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  -----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  Subject:      Re: eye dialect was RE: nekkid
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 1:01 PM -0400 3/15/11, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  >I must be getting, um, old because I've never seen or heard "comed/
>>  cummed."
>>  >
>>  >The verb certainly antedates the noun. See HDAS.
>>
>>  I did, now that I can, but I'm not convinced on the point at issue.
>>  There's no evidence at the "come" entry ("cum" just directs us to
>>  "come") that the verb realized as "cum" antedates the noun realized
>>  as "cum".  Indeed, all the cites for the verb [k^m] are spelled
>>  "come", while several of the noun cites are indeed "cum", including
>>  evocative WW2 military slang cites you include for 'mayonnaise, salad
>>  dressing'.  (Probably promoted by the powerful oil-and-vinegar lobby.)
>>
>>  LH, noticing a new-to-me use of "come" as a derived transitive
>>  (causative) verb (HDAS s.v. "come", v., 1(c): 'to induce orgasm in',
>>  with the 1973 cite "Wail, I comed that little old gal, then I crawled
>>  off." I'd have thought "brought (off)" would have gone down better in
>>  that context.)
>>
>>  >The, um, underlying idea
>>  >appears to be to "arrive to one's purpose," OED 4a and related defs. (Cf.
>>  >also, ahistorically, def. 16.)
>>  >
>>  >JL
>>  >On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM, <ronbutters at aol.com> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  -----------------------
>>  >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
>>  >>  Subject:      Re: eye dialect was RE: nekkid
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>
>>  >>  Magna cum laude will continue to get puerile snickers for a long time
>>  to
>>  >>  come.
>>  >>
>>  >>  Sent from my iPad
>>  >>
>>  >>  On Mar 15, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
>>  >
>>  >>  wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >>  > Unless my sources have misled me seriously, English "cum" didn't
>>  >>  > become iconic till the 1980s.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > "Kum" is far newer - and better because it allows for the continued
>>  >>  teaching
>>  >>  > of Latin in our schools without constant distraction. And discipline.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > JL
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Laurence Horn <
>>  laurence.horn at yale.edu
>>  >>  >wrote:
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  >> -----------------------
>>  >>  >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  >> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  >>  >> Subject:      Re: eye dialect was RE: nekkid
>  > >>  >>
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >> At 2:38 PM +0000 3/15/11, Charles C Doyle wrote:
>>  >>  >>> Similarly with the proud University of Georgia "Dawgs"
>>  ('bulldogs').
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> Not just "kum" but "cum" for 'male ejaculate' must have originated
>>  >>  >>> as eye-dialect--and "cum" has become almost the accepted
>>  >>  >>> "scientific" term!
>>  >>  >>
>  > >>  >> There is also the homonymy avoidance motivation at work.  Do we know
>>  >>  >> if "cum" began as a noun or a verb? Neither is in Farmer & Henley,
>>  >>  >> and I don't have JL's cumpendium on me at the moment and the OED
>>  just
>>  >>  >> has the Latin preposition.  The orthographic distinction does appear
>>  >>  >> to be here to stay--I'm surprised no one has registered .cum as a
>>  >>  >> domain suffix for porn sites.
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >>> There's a folk belief (at least) that in the South "misspellings"
>>  >>  >>> with "K" used to signal commercial concerns that were sympathetic
>>  to
>>  >>  >>> the Ku Klux Klan (n.b. the spelling "Klan").  E.g. "Krispy Kreme."
>>  >>  >>> I doubt if that's true any longer.
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >> And then, from the other side of the ideological continuum, there is
>>  >>  >> (or at least was) "Amerika".  Not to mention "AmeriKKKa".
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >> LH
>>  >>  >>
>>  >>  >>> ________________________________________
>>  >>  >>> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf
>>  of
>>  >>  >>> James A. Landau <JJJRLandau at netscape.com> [JJJRLandau at NETSCAPE.COM
>>  ]
>>  >>  >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 10:02 AM
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> The sports section of the Philadelphia Inquirer is fond of
>>  referring
>>  >>  >>> to the Philadelphia Eagles football team as the "Iggles".  This is
>>  >>  >>> not done to sneer at the literacy of local football fans but rather
>>  >  > >>> to give a feeling of "yes, we're local" to the readers.
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> If you ever see in print male ejaculate referred to as "kum", you
>>  >>  >>> can be sure you are reading a low-brow girlie magazine.
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> Perhaps not really eye dialect, but advertisers sometimes
>>  >>  >>> deliberately use phonetic spellings as eye-catchers, e.g. "Ken-l
>>  >>  >>> Ration".  "LUV" was used by at least two different firms, one for a
>>  >>  >>> brand of disposable diapers and one for an infant's car seat.
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> Occasionally such a deliberate misspelling will catch on.
>>  >>  >>> Specifically "lite" was originally used (to the best of my
>>  >>  >>> recollection) as a come-on for somebody's sugar-free soft drink but
>>  >>  >>> has caught on to mean any diet drink, or more generally a diet
>>  food,
>>  >>  >>> and even by extension something with less than the normal
>>  >>  >>> caloric/intellectual/whatever load, e.g. sneering at someone's
>>  >>  >>> publication as "American Speech lite".
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>>   - James A. Landau
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> PS:  I received a "Nigerian" e-mail (actually it was from Russia)
>>  >>  >>> soliciting me for a "mutual preposition".
>>  >>  >>>
>>  >>  >>> _____________________________________________________________
>>  >>  >>> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>>  >>  >>>
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>>  >>  >>>
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>>  >>  >> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > --
>>  >>  > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>  >>  truth."
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>  > >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>  truth."
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>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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