"pumpernickel court"

[Joel S. Berson]

Sorry for your confusion, Dan.  I did not know
who invented the dukedom, Carlyle or Thackery,
which is why I mentioned their names -- so those
familiar with the duchy could inform me whether
they used the phrase "pumpernickel court"
metaphorically or merely as "the court at
Pumpernickel", where "pumpernickel" would just be
a place-name, albeit fictional, and thus probably not eligible for the OED.

I too did not find the phrase "pumpernickel
court" in Vanity Fair, or in Carlyle, although
GBooks perhaps doesn't have the work in which Carlyle used it.

What I am suggesting is that in 1914, in
Crawford's book, the phrase has become
metaphorical, and thus perhaps eligible for the
OED.  (And Cobban's 1894 use, while still a
place-name, is at least not Carlyle or Thackery.)

Joel

At 9/27/2011 11:59 AM, Dan Goncharoff wrote:
>I am very, very confused.
>
>Carlyle invented the fictional dukedom of Pumpernickel, and Thackery
>borrowed the place for his Vanity Fair. Carlyle also invented the
>"Pumpernickel court", ie, the court at Pumpernickel. It is not a place name.
>
>I do not believe that either Carlyle or Thackery ever used the phrase
>"Pumpernickel court'.
>DanG
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      "pumpernickel court"
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > "pumpernickel court" not in OED.
> >
> > 1)  1892 --
> >
> > In 1830 he left the university and went to
> > Weimar, and some of his most pleasing
> > sketches--those in which he describes the life at
> > Pumpernickel Court--were doubtless drawn from his
> > recollections of this period of his life.
> >
> > The Virginia University Magazine, May-June 1892, page 519.  Here a
> > place-name.
> >
> > This is in an article on
> > Thackery.  "Pumpernickel" can be found in Vanity
> > Fair  GBooks says in 9 times in an 1848 edition,
> > always as a place name; but not "pumpernickel
> > court".  And perhaps in other Thackery writings, looking at GBooks results.
> >
> > 2)  1894 --
> >
> > "Oh, at Pumpernickel!" said the Colonel. "... At
> > Pumpernickel, I represented the Queen and Country
> > in a sort of way, and I was therefore a person of
> > consequence, to whom the Pumpernickel Court, and
> > Prince Hermann among the rest, could not but be civil."
> >
> > Ä Prince's Love-Story", by J. Maclaran Cobban. in
> > Chamber's Journal, April 7, 1894, page 217, col.
> > 1.  [on page 216, col. 2, Hermann is described as
> > "His Royal Highness Prince Hermannof
> > Schweiningen-Pumpernickel".]  Still a place-name.
> >
> > 3)  1914 --
> >
> > Arranging the congregation with due deference to
> > rank was quite as difficult a process for our
> > forefathers as the ceremonies of a Pumpernickel court.
> >
> > Mary Caroline Crawford, Social Life in Old New
> > England, page 166.  Becoming metaphorical?
> >
> > 4)  1977, but citing an earlier writer --
> >
> > Though she was granddaughter to Queen Victoria,
> > first cousin to the Kaiser and sister to the
> > Grand Duchess Serge, she came from what Carlyle
> > contemptuously called 'a Pumpernickel Court'[54].
> >
> > Michael Sidney Tyler-Whittle, The Last Kaiser: a
> > Biography of William II, German Emperor ..., page
> > 154.  This is a snippet only, but presumably the
> > source is given in footnote 54.
> > -----
> >
> > Two other GBooks results, allegedly 1966 and
> > 1981, both also attributing "pumpernickel court"
> > to (Thomas?) Carlyle.  Is the use attributed to
> > Carlye metaphorical?  And it would certainly be earlier than 1914.
> >
> > Joel
> >
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