movie ruined the book

Sat Aug 10 06:21:56 UTC 2013

Thanks to Bill Mullins and David Barnhart. The Quote Investigator
website now has a post on this topic titled: They Haven’t Done
Anything to My Book. It’s Right There on the Shelf

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/06/book-on-shelf/

Acknowledgement on webpage states: Deep thanks to Bill Mullins who
broached this topic and located the key 1969 citation and several
other valuable cites.

Garson

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US)
<william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)" <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
> Subject:      Re: movie ruined the book
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I first got interested in the quote here:
>
> http://www.heinleinsociety.org/thsnexus/viewtopic.php?p=13017#p13017
>
> As I say there, I associated it with King.  I'm pretty sure he said it,
> without attribution, in either an introduction or post script or
> interstitial material in one of his novels or short story collections.
> But he said it with attribution to Cain here:
>
> http://www.powells.com/blog/interviews/the-once-and-future-stephen-king-
> by-jill/
>
> and even sort of identifies a source -- an interview with Cain in a
> college newspaper, near the end of Cain's life -- here:
>
> http://www.stephenking.com/promo/utd_on_tv/letter.html .
>
> Cain died in 1977, which puts a bound on the interview.  But I suspect
> that if it did originate with Cain, it goes back to the 1940s, when
> Mildred Pierce and Postman and Double Indemnity were released as movies.
>
> (Maybe King will google himself one day -- we've all done it -- and run
> across this thread and step in and tell us.  It could happen . . . )
>
>
>
> I wrote to Charles Ardai (cc'ed on this note), who edited a previously
> unpublished novel from Cain for the Hard Case Crime series:
>
> http://www.hardcasecrime.com/books_bios.cgi?title=The Cocktail Waitress
>
> in hope he could source the quote, but he wasn't able to do so.  He did
> mention that it appears in Roy Hoopes's 1982 biography of Cain,
> attributed to Cain but without specific sourcing.
> http://books.google.com/books?id=fkdaAAAAMAAJ&q=shelf
>
> Hoopes is passed on, so I can't ask him.
>
>
>
> John Landis gives it to Stephen King:
> http://collider.com/john-landis-burke-and-hare-american-werewolf-in-lond
> on-remake-interview/
>
> NYT 3/2/1969 p BR2 col 3 (Book Review Section) in an article about Cain,
> quotes him:
> "People tell me, don't you care what they've done to your book?  I tell
> them, they haven't done anything to my book.  It's right there on the
> shelf.  They paid me and that's the end of it."
>
>
>
> Re: Chandler below -- I can easily see Burroughs misremembering Cain as
> Chandler, given that they both worked in the same genre.  But it is also
> possible that Chandler originally said it, and that it has been
> misremembered as Cain.  Chandler also had works adapted to film in the
> 1940s (The Big Sleep; Murder, My Sweet).  In fact, Chandler adapted
> Cain's Double Indemnity for the screen, and makes a cameo appearance in
> the movie, sitting on a bench as Fred MacMurray walks by.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of ADSGarson O'Toole
>> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:04 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: movie ruined the book
>>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> ---------------
>> --------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: movie ruined the book
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>> Below are some more citations for the idea: The movie did not ruin the
>> book because the book is still on the shelf.
>>
>> If some list member can locate and share a citation before 1978 that
>> would be excellent. Also, a citation from Stephen King (or other
> famous
>> authors) would be interesting.  Thanks.
>>
>> In 1991 the book "Naked Lunch" by William S. Burroughs was made into a
>> movie via transmutation and re-hallucination by the filmmaker David
>> Cronenberg. When William S. Burroughs was asked about the movie that
>> was constructed from the remnants of his opus his reply was recorded
>> and presented.  Burroughs apparently mutated James M. Cain into
> Raymond
>> Chandler:
>>
>> Title: Everything Is Permitted: The Making of Naked Lunch
>> Author: Ira Silverberg
>> Year: 1992
>> Quote Page: 15
>> (Google Books snippet view; data may be inaccurate; verification on
>> paper required)
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> I hope that my readers will judge the film as something quite apart
>> from my novel, and that I may perhaps find some new readers thereby.
>> Raymond Chandler was once asked, "How do you feel about what Hollywood
>> has done to your novels?" He reportedly answered, "My novels? Why,
>> Hollywood hasn't done anything to them. They're still right there, on
>> the shelf."
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>> When David Cronenberg was questioned about his film "Naked Lunch" he
>> presented a version of the Raymond Chandler anecdote which he
>> attributed to William S. Burroughs.
>>
>> Website: movingimagesource.us
>> Transcript of: Discussion with David Cronenberg Description from
>> website: A Pinewood Dialogue following a screening of Naked Lunch,
>> moderated by Chief Curator David Schwartz Date given on website:
>> January 11 and 12, 1992
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> CRONENBERG: The insect typewriters are my invention.
>>
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Absolutely brilliant.
>>
>> CRONENBERG: Thank you. Well, I have to say that Burroughs himself
> loved
>> them, wanted to take them home off the set. And he does have a mugwump
>> in his bedroom, I can tell you that, and-it's tied up, though.
>> It's okay. And said that he thought any writer could relate to those
>> typewriters, which was a huge compliment. And I must say that
> Burroughs
>> was totally supportive and very easy about the making of the film. I
>> mean, he always, as he's written in the preface to the-there's a book,
>> The Making of Naked Lunch, as well, which is not out yet, but it will
>> be in about a week. And in a preface that he's written, he mentions a
>> story about Raymond Chandler when people said, "Aren't you appalled at
>> the things that Hollywood has done to your books?" And he said, "Well,
>> Hollywood hasn't done anything to my books. They're right there on the
>> shelf." And I think that's really Burroughs's approach.
>> His work is his work and nothing that I could do would ever change it,
>> really.
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>>
>> In 2001 an interview with comic book author Alan Moore was released on
>> "The A.V. Club". Several movies have been based on works by Moore.
>>
>> Article: Interview with Alan Moore
>> Webbsite: The A.V. Club
>> Date: October 24, 2001
>>
>> http://www.avclub.com/articles/alan-moore,13740/
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> I suppose that the way I keep all that straight in my head is by
>> keeping this kind of detachment, and by realizing that the film and
> the
>> book are very different entities. Apparently, someone asked Raymond
>> Chandler once what he thought of Hollywood ruining all of his books.
>> And he took them into his study and pointed up to the shelf where they
>> all were, and he said, "Look, they're there. They're fine.
>> They're okay." That's the attitude I have to take. The film hasn't
>> ruined my book.
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>> In 2001 a commentator at the website "The Straight Dope" asserted that
>> James M. Cain made his remark about books and movies in 1948. The Cain
>> citation I gave yesterday was from 1978.
>>
>> [Begin excerpts from forum discussion]
>>
>> Comment from Interrobang!?
>> Timestamp: 12-02-2001, 06:07 PM
>>
>> Someone asked about "movies ruining the books," and Ellroy basically
>> said that a movie can't ruin the book, because the book is still there
>> on the shelf, waiting to be read, once the movie's made.
>>
>> Response from Ukulele Ike
>> Timestamp: 12-02-2001, 07:54 PM
>>
>> Yeah.
>>
>> He stole that from James M. Cain, author of THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS
>> TWICE, DOUBLE INDEMNITY, and MILDRED PIERCE (among other novels). Who
>> said the same thing back around 1948.
>>
>> [End excerpts from forum discussion]
>>
>>
>> In 2003 the prominent science fiction author Larry Niven answered
>> questions collected from participants at the website slashdot.org.
>> Niven employed an instance of the saying.
>>
>> Website: Slashdot
>> Title: Ladies and Gentlemen, Dr. Larry Niven Posted by Roblimo
>> Timestamp: March 10, 2003 @01:02PM
>>
>> http://interviews.slashdot.org/story/03/03/10/167206/ladies-and-
>> gentlemen-dr-larry-niven
>> http://www.larryniven.net/ringworld_movie_news.shtml
>>
>> [Begin excerpt]
>> Yes, I would like to see my works made into movies. All of them. Short
>> stories as well as novels. Why not? A movie doesn't ruin a book; the
>> book is still there, unchanged, and may even see a larger audience.
>> See Vince Gerardis of Created By, my agent, if you've just won a
>> lottery.
>> [End excerpt]
>>
>> Garson
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:09 AM, ADSGarson O'Toole
>> <adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Thanks for broaching this interesting topic, Bill. Below is a 1978
>> > citation for a Paris Review interview with James M. Cain. Comic book
>> > auteur Alan Moore ascribed the remark to Raymond Chandler during an
>> > October 2001 interview at The A.V. Club. Could you share some more
>> > details about what you have found?
>> >
>> > Periodical: The Paris Review
>> > Date: Spring-Summer 1978
>> > Number: 73
>> > Article: Interview: James M. Cain, The Art of Fiction No. 69
>> > Interviewed by David Zinsser
>> >
>> > http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/3474/the-art-of-fiction-no-
>> 69
>> > -james-m-cain
>> >
>> > (The topic was Double Indemnity by James M. Cain)
>> >
>> > [Begin excerpt]
>> > INTERVIEWER
>> > Did you ever go and see the film? What did you think of it?
>> >
>> > CAIN
>> > I don't go. There are some foods some people just don't like. I just
>> > don't like movies. People tell me, don't you care what they've done
>> to
>> > your book? I tell them, they haven't done anything to my book. It's
>> > right there on the shelf. They paid me and that's the end of it.
>> > [End excerpt]
>> >
>> > Garson
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US)
>> > <william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> ------------
>> -----------
>> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)"
>> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
>> >> Subject:      movie ruined the book
>> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> >> ----------
>> >>
>> >> Fan/Critic to Famous Author:  "The movie ruined your book!"
>> >> =20
>> >> Famous Author:  "No it didn't, the book is fine, right there on the
>> =
>> >> shelf."
>> >> =20
>> >> =20
>> >> I associated this quote with Stephen King, probably from the intro
>> to
>> >> = one of his novels.  But a little Googling shows that Allen
>> Ginsberg
>> >> and = Larry Niven have said more or less the same thing, and that
>> >> James M. = Cain may have said it first.=20
>> >> =20
>> >> Does anyone know the original?  Is is Cain?
>> >>
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