"Narrative" again

Thu May 2 12:08:58 UTC 2013

At 5/1/2013 09:13 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>FWIW:
>
>2013 _New Yorker_ (May 6) 22: Young American women now [are] caught in a
>post-post-feminist narrative in which it is proposed that sexual
>emancipation may be achieved through emotional disengagement.
>
>Who's doing the "narrating"?

The problem here is not with "narrative" but with the actor-less
subjunctive.  I think.  But anything with "post" in it, let alone the
double negative "post-post", confuses me.

Joel

>JL
>
>
>On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: "Narrative" again
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I agree.  For discussions of historical events, "narrative" suggests
> > to me the same as Dave describes below, creating a coherent account,
> > perhaps chronological, that fits the events into a plausible,
> > logically possible tale.  Not necessarily correct, but not in
> > conflict with anything known.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 5/1/2013 10:34 AM, Dave Wilton wrote:
> > >I don't think "liberal propaganda" or even "popular supposition" is
> > implied.
> > >
> > >The usage falls under OED definition 2.a. "Narrative" is frequently used
> > not
> > >simply as a recounting of facts and events, but an expression that is done
> > >in a way to create a coherent story that explains those facts.
> > >
> > >I've probably most often heard this sense in context of litigation, where
> > >lawyers will seek to create a "narrative" to convince the jury or judges.
> > >(David Boies is often recognized as being especially skilled at creating
> > >convincing narratives out of the facts of a case.)
> > >
> > >The analyst is simply expressing the opinion that the explanation that the
> > >bombers did not have foreign connections may not fit all the facts; that a
> > >good analyst questions assumptions. From an intelligence perspective, this
> > >skeptical attitude is probably healthy. (Although the comment could be
> > >xenophobic. I don't know who said it or the broader context in which it
> > was
> > >said.)
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> > Of
> > >Jonathan Lighter
> > >Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 9:14 AM
> > >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >Subject: Re: "Narrative" again
> > >
> > >Former CIA analyst on the bombing plot (CNN):
> > >
> > >"I think it is wrong for us to take the narrative that it was just
> > >homegrown."
> > >
> > >It would never even occur to me to use "narrative" in this context.
> > >  Possibly "obtuse liberal propaganda" is implied, but I did not get that
> > >impression. It seems to me that here it means "popular supposition."
> > >
> > >In real time, of course.
> > >
> > >JL
> > >
> > >
> > >On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> > ><wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > Subject:      Re: "Narrative" again
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---------
> > > >
> > > > CNN anchor: Does Rick Perry's performance in the last debate follow
> > > > the narrative of his campaign?
> > > >
> > > > Political Scientist:  Unfortunately, the narrative about Rick Perry in
> > > > this campaign is that he's not ready for prime time.
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Jonathan Lighter
> > > > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > > > Subject:      Re: "Narrative" again
> > > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---------
> > > > >
> > > > > A former Republican Congressman on CNN today:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Blaming 'right-wing Republicans' [for debt/deficit/budget
> > > > > difficulties]
> > > > is
> > > > > a narrative that won't fly."
> > > > >
> > > > > I.e., a propaganda move.
> > > > >
> > > > > JL
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > >> -----------------------
> > > > >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > >> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > > >> Subject:      "Narrative" again
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---------
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In an article in today's NYTimes on the conviction of five New
> > > > >> Orleans police offers of unjustified shooting of six citizens just
> > > > >> after Hurricane Katrina, Campbell Robertson writes:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      "The trial was not only about these five officers but also
> > > > >> about what exactly happened in the weeks after the hurricane, a
> > > > >> sort of judgment on the initial widely held belief that the
> > > > >> authorities were trying to control elements of a citizenry run
> > rampant.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>      ":In the years since, that narrative has been qualified. While
> > > > >> some people did turn to crime and violence, it has become apparent
> > > > >> that some of the bloodshed and chaos was brought about by members
> > > > >> of the long-troubled Police Department."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Joel
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > > > truth."
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > >truth."
> > > >
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> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
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> > >
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> > >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
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>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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