Ukraine vs The Ukraine

[Joel S. Berson]

At 3/5/2014 05:13 PM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>Maybe names that incorporate adjectives are exempt (The United
>States/United Kingdom/Soviet Union/Former Yugoslavia :).  That still
>leaves "The Netherlands" (unless you parse it as "The Nether
>Lands"), and of course "The Philippines" and "The Ukraine" as the
>real test cases of practice vs. prescription, a bit like "Sixth
>Avenue" vs. "The Avenue of the Americas".  And then there's the real
>victim of colonial hegemonist subjugation, THE Bronx.

Isn't there a lyric " don't take the ' the ' from ' the Broncks' '
"?  Or something.  Embarrassing for me to forget -- I'm a native.

Joel


>LH
>
>On Mar 5, 2014, at 5:02 PM, Geoffrey Steven Nathan wrote:
>
> > Not to mention THE United Kingdom and THE Soviet Union. Clearly
> all aching to escape from the chains of colonialism. Oh ,wait....
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > Geoffrey S. Nathan
> > Faculty Liaison, C&IT
> > and Professor, Linguistics Program
> > http://blogs.wayne.edu/proftech/
> > +1 (313) 577-1259 (C&IT)
> >
> > Nobody at Wayne State will EVER ask you for your password. Never
> send it to anyone in an email, no matter how authentic the email looks.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >> From: "W Brewer" <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM>
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:49:33 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Ukraine vs The Ukraine
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster: W Brewer <brewerwa at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject: Re: Ukraine vs The Ukraine
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >> This morning, CNN interview with a Ukrainian official (foreign
> >> minister?):
> >> Interviewing reporter says <Crimea>. The Ukrainian official says <the
> >> Crimea>.
> >> WB learned a set of place names in elementary school geography class
> >> in the '50s; this set of place names included a prefixed <the>. WB
> >> recalls
> >> reporting Angst to Linguist List upon hearing a BBC news reader
> >> dropping
> >> <the> from <the Ukraine>, maybe twenty years ago. WB was instructed
> >> that
> >> <the> was a relic of colonialism, and had to be eliminated, end of
> >> discussion. WB is still loath to give up the <the>, because that is
> >> what he
> >> grew up with, and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead mouth.
> >
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> >
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