[Ads-l] /d/ for flapped /t/

Joel S. Berson Berson at ATT.NET
Sat Nov 15 21:07:04 UTC 2014


At 11/15/2014 03:54 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:

> > I think I even lower the tone of the "a" when I say "ladder" as compared
>to "latter".
>
>I have no doubt that I do.

Same for me when I say "rider" vs."writer".  And I see "long vowel" 
means it takes longer to say (I never made that connection before, 
since I naively have taken "long" and "short" merely to differentiate 
the *sound* of two vowels).  "Longer to say" is definitely what I 
hear when I (carefully) say any of the "double-D" words compared to 
the "double-T" words.  If I'm .. sloppy? ... the pairs sound alike.

One might try to find pairs of words that have the same grammatical 
function and semantically could be interchangeable in some (single) utterance.

Joel


>I also seem to hear vowel modification in the other exx.
>
>JL
>
>On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: /d/ for flapped /t/
> >
> > 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Answering Wilson also.
> >
> > I can hear a difference when I speak knowing that there might be a
> > difference.  And it sounds (I think!) somewhat like what Jon is
> > describing.  I think I even lower the tone of the "a" when I say
> > "ladder" as compared to "latter".  But am I biasing myself to prove a
> > preconceived hypothesis?
> >
> > Probably my test would only tell me what I can *hear* if I listened
> > to someone else speak a (potential minimal) pair -- such as
> > latter/ladder, butter/budder, better/bedder.  But then I would have
> > to listen to someone who makes the distinction in speaking, wouldn't I?
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 11/15/2014 08:09 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > >I believe I can hear the difference although it is subtle.
> > >
> > >/d/ sounds (and feels) to me minutely longer and more emphatic. (A
> > >phonologist could say that better.)
> > >
> > >Many of us will remember entire classrooms of students of whom only two or
> > >three could hear the difference between /a/ and /C/ (e.g., "pa" and "paw,"
> > >"hottie" and "haughty").  Practice helped, but it didn't help everybody.
> >
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> >
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
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