[Ads-l] "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)

Joel Berson berson at ATT.NET
Tue Aug 4 01:43:44 UTC 2015


Jon,

This isn't actually a NINA notice, but an article deprecating such.  I don't know, not (yet) having access to Fried's article, whether she has *notices* from earlier than 1842 or 1830.  But Barry does, from 1827 (which I happened to find while Barry's was arriving to this list).


Joel

      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU 
 Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 5:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
   
It took only a few minutes to find still earlier American examples.
(Fried's is from 1842).

The earliest:

1830 _New-York Morning Herald_ (July 12) 3:  "NO IRISH NEED APPLY."
Several advertisements with this insulting appendage have been from time to
time left on out hook for insertion, but which we rejected with disdain for
their authors. If one Irish servant maid commits a fault, is that a reason
that all other Irish girls must be bad. Surely not. Those who write those
illiberal and foolish advertisements must remember that the misconduct of a
few can afford no ground for insulting a whole nation; and a nation like
Ireland - renowned fro the virtue of her females, and the genius and
generosity of her sons. That American cannot be patriotic who would offer a
deliberate insult to the country of General Montgomery and Commodore Barry.
When we were making the great struggle for out liberties, were we not nobly
assisted by IRISHMEN?

Apparently such ads were familiar in NYC by the summer of 1830.

BTW, the song called "No Irish Need Apply" (by John F. Poole, 1862) was
apparently shortened by Pete Seeger around 1950 and set to a catchy tune of
his own.

JL

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 12:44 PM, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:      George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Looking at the Brooklyn Eagle only, through 1870, I see "no Irish need
> apply" on March 29, 1860, and the day following; May 1, 1863, and the day
> following;FFebruary 16, 1865; August 12, 1868, and the day
> following;November 18, 1868, which specifically welcomes applications from
> "German or colored"; and October 12, 1870.  Searching "irish need", I find
> on January 22, 1869, and the day following, the advice "Irish need not
> apply".
> I also note notices that specify "A Protestant Woman" or "American
> preferred".
> The advisory "no Irish need apply" appeared more frequently after 1870.
>
> Searching my own notes from NYC newspapers, through 1870, it seems that I
> didn't note that phrase in anything.
> It was standard practice for the newspapers to label the perp in street
> violence, robberies, family violence, &c. as Irish, whenever applicable,
> often with an editorial comment deploring the prevalence of such crime
> among the Irish.  When the Irish penchant for drunkenness, wife-beating,
> &c. wasn't being deplored, it was a source of amusement, from the curious
> way the Irish talked and behaved in general.  (At least one of us will
> think of parallels in the treatment of another group in the newspapers,
> indeed until recent memory.)
>
>            There were several cases of complaints against husbands for
> beating their wives, but the parties being Irish, the women kept away, as
> usual, and the husbands were discharged.
>            NY D Express, August 28, 1839, p. 2, col. 5
>
>            A brutal, savage looking, uncouth Irishman, named Michael
> McEntire [was arrested November 18 for riotous behavior and
> wife-beating].  The
> Magistrate committed him for further examination, and to give an
> opportunity for the witnesses of his rascality to appear against him.
>            NY D Express, November 20, 1840, p. 2, col. 7
>
>            David Conlin, a blathering Irishman, guilty of an assault and
> battery on his wife.  ***
>
>            NY D Express, August 3, 1842, p. 2, col. 5
>
>            [crime statistics, March 1845-March 1846, for the upper part of
> the city, by offense and national origin of the perp: U. S. male and
> female, black and white; Ireland, male and female; elsewhere]
>            N-Y D Tribune, May 1, 1846, p. 2, col. 5
>
>            Dialogue at a Public Dinner at a Fashionable Hotel up Town.
> [an
> anecdote in dialog: an ignorant Irish waiter doesn't know what *pate de
> foie gras* is]  Moral. -- At public dinners where the waiters are Irish,
> there would be some advantage in having the bill of fare printed solely in
> the Hibernian language.
>            N-Y D Tribune, June 12, 1847, p. 2, col. 5
>
>            OUR CITY AMUSEMENTS.  How the Mass of Our People Amuse
> Themselves.  By the Strong-Minded Reporter for the New-York Times.  ["the
> German portion of our population" makes "music one of their chief means of
> amusement, and are strictly decent in their public pleasures"]  Those, on
> the other hand, who delight in indelicate and indecent exhibitions, are
> chiefly the lower class of Irish, and negroes.
>            N-Y Times, December 3, 1858, p. 1  [the Times of this era was
> hell-bent on Sabbath-keeping]
>
> GAT
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>
> > CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
> >
> > Jensen's original article is available here:
> >
> > http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm
> >
> > I can't find Fried's rebuttal article, except behind a (rather expensive)
> > paywall:
> >
> http://intl-jsh.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/07/03/jsh.shv066.full
> >
> > (and, btw, Fried's title, "No Irish Need Deny", is great)
> >
> > Does anyone have contact info for Fried that I can ask her to send a
> copy?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> > Behalf Of Jesse Sheidlower
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2015 12:20 PM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Subject: "No Irish need apply"
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:      American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:      Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>
> > > Subject:      "No Irish need apply"
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Slightly off-topic, but interesting: In 2002, a professor published an
> > article claiming that he could barely find any evidence for the supposed
> > > notices reading "No Irish need apply", and that the notion that the
> > Irish were thus discriminated against stemmed from a sense of
> > > victimhood among modern Irish-Americans.
> > >
> > > A high-school student with better database-fu has no proved that, in
> > fact, there were many such notices. The student's article is appearing
> > > in a major journal.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.longislandwins.com/columns/detail/high_school_student_proves_professor_wrong_when_he_denied_no_irish_need_app
> > >
> > > Jesse Sheidlower
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> George A. Thompson
> The Guy Who Still Looks Stuff Up in Books.
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998..
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org



------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
  


More information about the Ads-l mailing list