[Ads-l] "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)

Wed Aug 5 14:19:02 UTC 2015

>   Or maybe potential Irish employees didn't *need* to apply, since they =
would be handed jobs upon request.

That *would* deconstruct the entire argument.  Take that, young teen!  The
endless play of NINA signs is what really counts.

JL

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 9:13 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > On Aug 4, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> =
> wrote:
> >=20
> > Presumably an exhaustive search for the phrase "No Irish" would =
> uncover
> > additional relevant examples.
> >=20
> > For bigoted employers in cities with large Irish populations, where =
> many
> > Irish applicants might respond to an ad, such notices would only make
> > sense.  Why encourage applicants who would automatically be turned =
> away?
> >=20
> > JL
>
> Or maybe potential Irish employees didn't *need* to apply, since they =
> would be handed jobs upon request. =20
>
> LH
>
> >=20
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter =
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >=20
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>=20
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
> >>=20
> >>> it is incredible that Jensen continues to denigrate her findings
> >>=20
> >> I detect unwarranted assumptions behind this statement - of exactly =
> the
> >> kind I used to make before I was wised up.
> >>=20
> >> JL
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
> >> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> >>=20
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)" =
> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL
> >>>=20
> >>> Subject:      Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
> >>>=20
> >>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>>=20
> >>> I contacted Ms. Fried and she sent me a link to an accessible copy =
> of her
> >>> a=3D
> >>> rticle.  It is very nicely done, and it is incredible that Jensen
> >>> continues=3D
> >>> to denigrate her findings:
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.washingtonpost.c=
> om_local_education_this-2D14-2Dyear-2Dold-2Dsidwell-2Dfrie-3D&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=
> =3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&=
> m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3Dz5RkCmII8yaseBBCsmX2y2=
> bqnV17wYFZvF2LZdfai6c&e=3D=20
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >> =
> nds-student-outwitted-a-college-historian/2015/08/03/fcd33356-3a1b-11e5-9c=
> 2=3D
> >>> d-ed991d848c48_story.html
> >>>=20
> >>> I've asked her for permission to share the link to the article on =
> this
> >>> list=3D
> >>> , and invited her to register and participate.
> >>>=20
> >>> When I was fourteen, I spent my time reading comic books and =
> watching the
> >>> "=3D
> >>> Six Million Dollar Man".  She is amazing.
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> >>> Behalf =3D
> >>> Of MULLINS, WILLIAM D (Bill) CIV USARMY RDECOM
> >>>> AMRDEC (US)
> >>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 9:07 AM
> >>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>> Subject: Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------=3D
> >>> ------
> >>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)" <
> >> william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Subject:      Re: "No Irish need apply" (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>>=20
> >>>=20
> >> =
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=3D=
>
> >>> ------
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> Jensen's original article is available here:
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__tigger.uic.edu_-7Erj=
> ensen_no-2Dirish.htm&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39h=
> B2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dx=
> jdEpFQ&s=3DGxPzDmXxThElgwOZ-N0rt7WV4jFiy-CJZN1QbvQrIH8&e=3D=20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> I can't find Fried's rebuttal article, except behind a (rather
> >>> expensive)=3D
> >>> p=3D3D
> >>>> aywall:
> >>>>=20
> >>>=20
> >> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__intl-2Djsh.oxfordjou=
> rnals.org_content_early_2015_07_03_jsh.shv066.fu-3D&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7z=
> WuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUr=
> vffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D4svZhV7ynjYiblyQb2kuaTSekS2z0ffN=
> 6H9ldZ8fkkk&e=3D=20
> >>> ll
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> (and, btw, Fried's title, "No Irish Need Deny", is great)
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> Does anyone have contact info for Fried that I can ask her to send =
> a
> >>> copy=3D
> >>> ?
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> >>> Behal=3D
> >>> f =3D3D
> >>>> Of Jesse Sheidlower
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2015 12:20 PM
> >>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>>> Subject: "No Irish need apply"
> >>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> ---------------=3D
> >>> --=3D3D
> >>>> ------
> >>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>> Poster:       Jesse Sheidlower <jester at PANIX.COM>
> >>>>> Subject:      "No Irish need apply"
> >>>>>=20
> >>> =
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=3D=
>
> >>> --=3D3D
> >>>> ------
> >>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>> Slightly off-topic, but interesting: In 2002, a professor =
> published
> >> an
> >>> =3D
> >>> ar=3D3D
> >>>> ticle claiming that he could barely find any evidence for the =
> supposed
> >>>>> notices reading "No Irish need apply", and that the notion that =
> the
> >>> Iri=3D
> >>> sh=3D3D
> >>>> were thus discriminated against stemmed from a sense of
> >>>>> victimhood among modern Irish-Americans.
> >>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>> A high-school student with better database-fu has no proved that, =
> in
> >>> fa=3D
> >>> ct=3D3D
> >>>> , there were many such notices. The student's article is appearing
> >>>>> in a major journal.
> >>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>>=20
> >>> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.longislandwins.c=
> om_columns_detail_high-5Fschool-5Fstudent-5Fproves-3D&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m=
> 7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-Q=
> UrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3DAnzArq6oK7b17bpXzSZsLNMDX-yoTX=
> l8u5w0FNsjCvU&e=3D=20
> >>> _p=3D3D
> >>>> rofessor_wrong_when_he_denied_no_irish_need_app
> >>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>> Jesse Sheidlower
> >>>>> =3D3D20
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
> >>>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
> >>> CLASSIFICATION: UNCLASSIFIED
> >>>=20
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
> >>>=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> --
> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
> truth."
> >>=20
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
> >>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
> truth."
> >=20
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.americandialect.=
> org&d=3DAwIBaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsS=
> xPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dzj-QUrvffJaF3aSFhMirXYkq-aalWQuRuQ9dxjdEpFQ&s=3D7z-kqd=
> 5Jon0ykjP0la5cqq6kXq5MU7q--BjrEbKDiwo&e=3D=20
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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