[Ads-l] Albanians

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Thu Feb 19 16:47:04 UTC 2015


My grandmother (b. 1888) once questioned my pronunciation of  " 'Awlbany."
She thought it "used to be" "Awl 'bayny."

I could never figure this out. Maybe she had heard "Albanians" and
"Awlbayny" in the 1890s.

JL

On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Albanians
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Can't remember if residents of Greece, NY (a suburb of Rochester =
> contiguous with Chili /'tSai lai/) are Greeks, Grecians, or neither.  =
> And are inhabitants of Paris, Texas Parisians, or Paris-ites?
>
> LH=20
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2015, at 11:24 AM, Paul A Johnston, Jr. wrote:
>
> > The little town in New York State, Monroe, has a similar problem.  We =
> are "Monrovians" but have probably never been to Liberia.
> >=20
> > Paul
> >=20
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 10:51:58 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Albanians
> >>=20
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> Subject:      Re: Albanians
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
> >>=20
> >> At 2/19/2015 10:21 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> >>> Wonder if the first vowel would disambiguate in=3D20
> >>> the spoken language.  Ah, yes, so saith OED, at=3D20
> >>> least in the primary pronunciation with open /O-/.
> >>=20
> >> Probably, but the invitation wasn't written in IPA.
> >>=20
> >>> There's also Albanian, n.3 and adj.1, another new one on me:
> >>>=20
> >>> Of or relating to Scotland or its people;=3D20
> >>> Scottish. Chiefly with reference to the time=3D20
> >>> prior to the Scottish Wars of Independence=3D20
> >>> (1296=3DAD1357), in later use often in relation to=3D20
> >>> the Scots (Scot n.1 1) who settled in what is now western Scotland.
> >>=20
> >> I wondered, but then remembered.  To quote=3D20
> >> Wikipedia, "Albion", not just the island of Great Britain, but:
> >>=20
> >> "... The name for Scotland in the Celtic=3D20
> >> languages is related to Albion: Alba in Scottish=3D20
> >> Gaelic, Albain in Irish, Nalbin in Manx and Alban=3D20
> >> in Welsh, Cornish and Breton. These names were=3D20
> >> later Latinised as Albania and Anglicised as=3D20
> >> Albany, which were once alternative names for Scotland."
> >>=20
> >> Joel
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >>> Presumably they'd have been recognized as British but not as
> >>> English...
> >>>=20
> >>> LH
> >>>=20
> >>> On Feb 19, 2015, at 10:09 AM, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> >>>=20
> >>>> "Following the French and Indian War,=3D20
> >>> Albanians believed themselves to be British,=3D20
> >>> but visiting Britons did not recognize them as fellow countrymen."
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Since this is the first sentence of the=3D20
> >>> description of a talk titled "Degrees of=3D20
> >>> Britishness: The People of Albany, New York,=3D20
> >>> and Questions of Cultural Community Membership,=3D20
> >>> 1763--1775", I suffered a moment of=3D20
> >>> dislocation.  But the next sentence brought me back across the
> >>> ocean:
> >>>>=20
> >>>> "New World Dutch architecture, the Albany=3D20
> >>> Dutch dialect, and the Dutch Reformed Church=3D20
> >>> contributed to the British view of the=3D20
> >>> Albanians as inter-imperial foreigners:=3D20
> >>> subjects who lived within the British empire=3D20
> >>> but stood outside of the British cultural community."
> >>>>=20
> >>>> And I find it has a long history, even if not=3D20
> >>> as long as in the Caucasuses* -- "Albanian,=3D20
> >>> n.4", "A native or inhabitant of Albany, New York State", from
> >>> 1689.
> >>>>=20
> >>>> * Not to be confused with Secaucus, which is not close to Albany.
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Joel
> >>=20
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