[Ads-l] "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)

ADSGarson O'Toole adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
Mon Feb 23 23:38:03 UTC 2015


Thanks Bill. Those are great citations. The extended explanation of
"shoot from the cuff" in the 1926 Photoplay is entertaining, and the
addition of "off" to yield "shoot it off the cuff" in "Hollywood
Vagabond" in 1927 is intriguing.

Thanks to LH and Joel for the interpretation of the 1925 cite. Also,
thanks to Stephen and Wilson for reactivating the topic.

Garson


On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 2:28 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US)
<william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)" <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
> Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> Yes it does.
>
> I wasn't aware of that meaning until I looked the phrase up in OED (after I=
>  posted).
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 1:27 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>=20
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header ---------------
>> --------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>=20
>> The 1925 ex. seems unusually  to mean "out of debt."  ("On the cuff" =3D
>> 'on
>> credit.')
>>=20
>> JL
>>=20
>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Mullins, Bill CIV (US) <
>> william.d.mullins18.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>>=20
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       "Mullins, Bill CIV (US)"
>> <william.d.mullins18.civ at MAIL.MIL>
>> > Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934 (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> > ---------
>> >
>> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> > Caveats: NONE
>> >
>> > _Variety_ 29 Apr 1925 p 21 col 4
>> > [review of theatrical show]
>> > "Didn't have a chance and producer and theater were smart enough to
>> go
>> > afte=3D r the two for ones.  Kept house from going dark and will just
>> > about get off=3D  the cuff."
>> >
>> > _Photoplay_ Apr 1926 pp 50-51
>> > "Mickey Neilan was some seven hours late on his set one day.  And the
>> > compa=3D ny waited and shivered -- and then shivered and waited some
>> > more.
>> > "Must have lost his script," hazarded a member of the cast.
>> > "Sure," says the prop boy.  "Must have lost his script and is now
>> > hunting t=3D hrough all the shirts in the Hollywood laundry to find
>> it."
>> > (You see, Mickey Neilan is famous for being one of the few surviving
>> > direct=3D ors who "shoot from the cuff" -- which means the only script
>> > he ever has is=3D  what's in his head, aided by an occasional note on
>> > his cuff.)"
>> >
>> > _Hollywood Vagabond_ 28 Apr 1927 p 5 col 3 "We don't get out here in
>> > the lights and then try to find out what's going =3D to happen.  We
>> read
>> > the script, know the story and throw the script away.
>> > =3D
>> > Then we come out on the set and shoot it off the cuff."
>> >
>> > _The Film Daily_ 11 May 1930 p 5 col 2
>> >
>> > "Credit Roy Mack of the Vitaphone studio with the one about the
>> > director wh=3D o was shooting off the cuff and moaned that he had
>> washed
>> > his shirt and los=3D t the script."
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> > >Behalf Of ADSGarson O'Toole
>> > > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 1:26 PM
>> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> > > Subject: Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934
>> > >=3D20
>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > >---------------
>> > > --------
>> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > > Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
>> > > Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934
>> > >
>> > >--------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> > >--
>> > > --------
>> > >=3D20
>> > > John Baker posted some valuable material to the ADS list in 2012 on
>> > >the  "off the cuff" topic:
>> > >=3D20
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2012-
>> > > August/121540.html
>> > >=3D20
>> > > I found some cites for "shoot from the cuff" starting in July 17,
>> 1927:
>> > >=3D20
>> > > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2012-
>> > > August/121545.html
>> > >=3D20
>> > > Garson
>> > >=3D20
>> > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Stephen Goranson
>> > ><goranson at duke.edu>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > > > -------------
>> > > ----------
>> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > > > Poster:       Stephen Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>
>> > > > Subject:      Re: "off the cuff" antedated to 1934
>> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> > > > ---
>> > > -
>> > > > ---------
>> > > >
>> > > > =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > July 31, 1932. Times-Picayune [New Orleans], Section 2, p. 5,
>> col. 1.
>> > > > Headl=3D3D
>> > > > ine: Movie Formula Revived with Uproar Unknown to
>> Silents.=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > =3D3D85."you never know where a picture is going these
>> > days"=3D3D85."Right,=3D
>> > "
>> > > > he [a =3D3D studio head] beamed,"it was shot right off the cuff
>> > > > every morning=3D3D85isn't t=3D3D hat phenomenal?" [The same paper h=
> as
>> > > > an iffy
>> > Sep=3D
>> > t.
>> > > > 1, 1929 use: "=3D3D85.I pick=3D3D ed one off the cuff and gave it t=
> o
>> > > > him
>> > fo=3D
>> > r
>> > > > free."=3D3D96horse racing tip.]=3D3D0A=3D3D =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > ________________________________________=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf
>> > > > of Stephe=3D3D n Goranson <goranson at DUKE.EDU>=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:48 AM=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > Subject: [ADS-L] "off the cuff" antedated to 1934=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > The previous earliest mentioned was Aug. 16, 1936 (discussed at
>> > > > Language Lo=3D3D g and Early Sports and Pop Culture History
>> > > > Blog).=3D3D0A=3D3D =3D3D0A=3D
>> > =3D3D Gene
>> > > > Fowler, Father Goose The Story of Mack Sennett (NY: Covici,
>> > > > Friede, 19=3D3D
>> > > > 34) page 147:=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > He set up his cameras with showmanlike haste and began shooting
>> > > > extemporane=3D3D ously-, or, "off the cuff."=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=3D3D3Dmdp.39015003982835;view=3D3D3=
> D
>> > 1up=3D
>> > ;
>> > > > seq=3D3D
>> > > > =3D3D3D161=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > Stephen Goranson=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > =3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> =3D3D0A=3D
>> > > > 3D The American Dialect Society -
>> > > > http://www.americandialect.org=3D3D0A=3D3D
>> > > >
>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> > >=3D20
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> > Caveats: NONE
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>>=20
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> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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