[Ads-l] "fourth dimension" is not "time" to the OED?

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Mon Jan 5 16:51:18 UTC 2015


I dunno. That's a lot of buildings in one plex.

JL

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "fourth dimension" is not "time" to the OED?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Jan 5, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
> > You mean "googol."  Not to mention "googolplex."
>
> Yes, but "googol" was part of the trajectory in the coinage (along with =
> Barney Google and his goo-goo-googly eyes). And doesn't the "Googleplex" =
> itself (the Mountain View HQ of Google) play off Gamow (or his nephew, =
> as cited by him?)? =20
>
> Wikipedia says so, and they're never wrong:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googleplex
> "Googleplex" is a portmanteau of _Google_ and _complex_ and a reference =
> to _googolplex_, the name given to the large number 10(10(100)), or =
> 10(googol) (with complex meaning a complex of buildings).
>
> LH
>
> >=20
> > Gamow's cartoons were cool too.
> >=20
> > JL
> >=20
> > On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> > wrote:
> >=20
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> Subject:      Re: "fourth dimension" is not "time" to the OED?
> >>=20
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
> >>=20
> >> On Jan 5, 2015, at 6:50 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>=20
> >>> The "fourth dimension" as 'time' was so familiar to TV viewers by =
> late =3D
> >> 1959
> >>> that Rod Serling had to insist there was a fifth one.
> >>> =3D20
> >>> Physicist George Gamow's popular book _One, Two, Three, Infinity_ =3D
> >> (1947)
> >>> explained it to me at just about the same time.
> >>> =3D20
> >>> JL
> >>=20
> >> Ah, _One, Two, Three, Infinity_.  A wonderful pop science book, and =
> it =3D
> >> made the world safe for "google".
> >>=20
> >> LH
> >>> =3D20
> >>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Jonathan Lighter =3D
> >> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> =3D20
> >>>> The "fourth dimension" as "time" was so familiar to TV viewers by =3D=
>
> >> late
> >>>> 1959 that Rod Serling had to insist there was a fifth one.
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> JL
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Jeff Prucher <
> >>>> 000000b93183dc86-dmarc-request at listserv.uga.edu> wrote:
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>> Poster:       Jeff Prucher <jprucher at YAHOO.COM>
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> Subject:      Re: "fourth dimension" is not "time" to the OED?
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> =3D
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> >> -----
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> The OED's definition for "fourth" states that it has not yet been =
> =3D
> >> fully
> >>>>> updated since 1897; the "fourth dimension" part looks like it was =
> =3D
> >> added in
> >>>>> OED2, and presumably therefore dates from the Burchfield =
> supplements
> >>>>> (1972-86). I don't know why Burchfield omitted the "time" aspect, =
> =3D
> >> though.
> >>>>> Possibly it wasn't well-established at that time, or not enough =
> for =3D
> >> the
> >>>>> editors to think it meritted a separate entry, or it was =
> established =3D
> >> but
> >>>>> they didn't have many citations for it. (I'd vote for the third, =
> but =3D
> >> that's
> >>>>> just a guess -- I'm pretty sure fourth dimension=3D3Dtime was =
> pretty =3D
> >> common in
> >>>>> SF by that time.)
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> Jeff Prucher
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 5:03 PM, Joel S. Berson =3D
> >> <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >>>>>> Subject:      "fourth dimension" is not "time" to the OED?
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> =3D
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> >> -----
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> Why does the OED's definition of "fourth dimension (under =
> "fourth")
> >>>>>> not include "time"?  The definition there is merely "a supposed =
> or
> >>>>>> assumed dimension, additional to length, breadth, and thickness =3D=
>
> >> (see
> >>>>>> dimension n. 3 note)."  And in the note, the only mention of =3D
> >> anything
> >>>>>> beyond L, B, and T is "Modern mathematicians have speculated as =
> to
> >>>>>> the possibility of more than three dimensions of space."
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> Searching for quotations including "fourth dimension", the =
> earliest
> >>>>>> referring to time is perhaps "1885   Nature 26 Mar. 481/1   Since
> >>>>>> this fourth dimension cannot be introduced into space, as =
> commonly
> >>>>>> understood, we require a new kind of space for its existence, =
> which
> >>>>>> we may call time-space."  (Well's "The Time Machine" is 1895.)
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> Joel
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> The American Dialect Society - =3D
> >> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=3D3Dhttp://www.americandialect.=
> or=3D
> >> =
> g/&k=3D3DdpQisR3avULHgiNaNeY%2Btg%3D%3D%0A&r=3D3DMW6Q85EuQFDFs0kj9ASwdaXoh=
> usE8=3D
> >> =
> 33r9bFEf66m5kA%3D%0A&m=3D3DBDhdUD7XsPc8zQeeQwJHSg6GNrjKCG41vFSCdQkeiDY%3D%=
> 0A=3D
> >> &s=3D3De3cd2b0c80c49666b9042b17adc9ae757beebc8660223b531b6d15506353eb5a=
>
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - =3D
> >> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=3D3Dhttp://www.americandialect.=
> or=3D
> >> =
> g/&k=3D3DdpQisR3avULHgiNaNeY%2Btg%3D%3D%0A&r=3D3DMW6Q85EuQFDFs0kj9ASwdaXoh=
> usE8=3D
> >> =
> 33r9bFEf66m5kA%3D%0A&m=3D3DBDhdUD7XsPc8zQeeQwJHSg6GNrjKCG41vFSCdQkeiDY%3D%=
> 0A=3D
> >> &s=3D3De3cd2b0c80c49666b9042b17adc9ae757beebc8660223b531b6d15506353eb5a=
>
> >>>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> =3D20
> >>>> --
> >>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
> =3D
> >> truth."
> >>>> =3D20
> >>> =3D20
> >>> =3D20
> >>> =3D20
> >>> --=3D20
> >>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
> =3D
> >> truth."
> >>> =3D20
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - =3D
> >> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=3D3Dhttp://www.americandialect.=
> or=3D
> >> =
> g/&k=3D3DdpQisR3avULHgiNaNeY%2Btg%3D%3D%0A&r=3D3DMW6Q85EuQFDFs0kj9ASwdaXoh=
> usE8=3D
> >> =
> 33r9bFEf66m5kA%3D%0A&m=3D3DBDhdUD7XsPc8zQeeQwJHSg6GNrjKCG41vFSCdQkeiDY%3D%=
> 0A=3D
> >> &s=3D3De3cd2b0c80c49666b9042b17adc9ae757beebc8660223b531b6d15506353eb5a=
>
> >>=20
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=3Dhttp://www.americandialect.or=
> g/&k=3DdpQisR3avULHgiNaNeY%2Btg%3D%3D%0A&r=3DMW6Q85EuQFDFs0kj9ASwdaXohusE8=
> 33r9bFEf66m5kA%3D%0A&m=3DBtcBXKutg06uhekavn1Vy0jHdsSgbH%2FS9uBNJu7pq50%3D%=
> 0A&s=3D49843d2994fad4f4e7d4046ce3f723df8031324d2d40a85a0c55457c543b77e2
> >>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the =
> truth."
> >=20
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=3Dhttp://www.americandialect.or=
> g/&k=3DdpQisR3avULHgiNaNeY%2Btg%3D%3D%0A&r=3DMW6Q85EuQFDFs0kj9ASwdaXohusE8=
> 33r9bFEf66m5kA%3D%0A&m=3DBtcBXKutg06uhekavn1Vy0jHdsSgbH%2FS9uBNJu7pq50%3D%=
> 0A&s=3D49843d2994fad4f4e7d4046ce3f723df8031324d2d40a85a0c55457c543b77e2
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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