[Ads-l] "just as good _of_ a(n) NP"

Laurence Horn laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Mon Oct 19 14:06:25 UTC 2015


Agreed on the widespread popularity of the + versions for younger speakers, and on the citation of the recency effect, but I'm not sure that we really be sure that (quoting Arnold, with contrastive *highlighting* added) for the relevant speakers (of any age) who accept/produce the +of version in the relevant contexts that

> it is now simply *the* standard form.  they understand the older -of EDM, but
> for them it must come from an odd non-standard dialect, or it’s
> terminally old-fashioned, or it’s a typo.

Can we be sure, without direct empirical feedback, that such speakers don't accept both + and - versions as standard and natural?

LH  

> On Oct 19, 2015, at 9:33 AM, Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2015-10-19 9:04 GMT-04:00 Arnold M. Zwicky wrote:
>> 
>> DQo+IE9uIE9jdCAxOSwgMjAxNSwgYXQgNDowNiBBTSwg...
> 
> Since Arnold's message came through garbled (thanks to the old "URL in
> rich text" problem), I've reproduced it below, copied from the online
> archive...
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listserv.linguistlist.org_pipermail_ads-2Dl_2015-2DOctober_139364.html&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=rsqTG0OPDfJtrjyfXnAtwBLhzI5VQn2WuhqLkj5-ugE&s=QmPr3X9r-XUvi-HkvkXuVhfNb9blVyL0HHl99t5kb0U&e= 
> 
> [begin AZ's message]
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2015, at 4:06 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> 
>> I was never taught *not* to use "of" in those cases - presumably because
>> nobody was foolish enough to use it.
>> 
>> If anyone in NYC was doing so before the mid '70s, I have no recollection
>> of hearing them.
>> 
>> That includes people on TV, by the way.
>> 
>> It still sounds bizarre to me - and not just from a prescriptivist
>> position.
> 
> it’s not what you’re used to.
> 
> but see
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__arnoldzwicky.org_2010_12_02_of-2Dedm-2Din-2Dthe-2Dcomics_&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=rsqTG0OPDfJtrjyfXnAtwBLhzI5VQn2WuhqLkj5-ugE&s=EEHifcmvOQ-cjuchxt6f5rQGHuHx1Af5bFOmrG5Cv_4&e= 
> 
> +of EDM has been attested in print since the 1940s, in “respectable”
> places (like the NYT) since the 1970s, and for younger speakers it is
> now simply the standard form.  they understand the older -of EDM, but
> for them it must come from an odd non-standard dialect, or it’s
> terminally old-fashioned, or it’s a typo.
> 
> arnold
> 
> [end AZ's message]
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=rsqTG0OPDfJtrjyfXnAtwBLhzI5VQn2WuhqLkj5-ugE&s=YO0EmQhBDEgmI_r8eJmFqYMo4Dkw7bzdrF9pULZ0Lx8&e= 

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