[Ads-l] "shut up talking"

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Wed Oct 21 17:00:44 UTC 2015


"Arguably," perhaps, but the given exx. all refer to the people doing the
talking and not to the talking itself.

I agree that "some sort of appositive" is involved in Gowdy's case.  We
don't know whether even he would regard the construction as perfectly
grammatical, or as a nonce blend elicited by the strain of facing
lamestream journalists.

JL

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "shut up talking"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > On Oct 21, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> =
> wrote:
> >=20
> > OED  shows no exx. of "Shut up!" taking a direct object.
>
> Well, arguably "Shut him up!" is an example of "shut up" taking a direct =
> object, as in
>
> 12. trans. To cause (a person) to stop talking, to reduce to silence.
>
> 1814   J. Austen Mansfield Park III. xvi. 305   Her son, who was always =
> guided by the last speaker, by the person who could get hold of and shut =
> him up.
> 1856   Dickens Little Dorrit (1857) i. xiii. 115,   I say to them, What =
> else are you made for? It shuts them up. They haven't a word to answer.
>
> The fact that the object of the transitive verb-particle construction =
> appears between the two parts isn't really decisive, and indeed  one =
> example (and many more could have included) have the opposite order:
>
> 1866   Mysteries of Isis 7   The Captain shuts up poor Henry..and he =
> can't say a word in return.
>
> I'm not familiar with "Shut up talking!" either but I don't think the =
> issue is the transitive use of "shut up".  In fact, I'm not sure I'd =
> consider this a case of "shut up" taking a direct object; more like =
> intransitive "shut up" plus some sort of appositive.
>
> LH
>
> >=20
> > I would have said "Shut up about blah blah" without the need to =
> specify
> > "talking."
> >=20
> > "Shut up talking" sounds very odd to me.
> >=20
> > (Earliest "Shut up!": 1840).
> >=20
> > JL
> >=20
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at gmail.com> =
> wrote:
> >=20
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> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Dan Goncharoff <thegonch at GMAIL.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: "shut up talking"
> >>=20
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
> >>=20
> >> Normal for me to say, or at least to shout in anger or frustration.
> >>=20
> >> "Shut up" doesn't easily take an object. "Stop talking" has an =
> immediacy
> >> that doesn't convey the desire that the topic is not to be brought up
> >> again.
> >> On Oct 20, 2015 9:29 PM, "Wilson Gray" <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>=20
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> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >>> Subject:      Re: "shut up talking"
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -----
> >>>=20
> >>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 6:53 AM, Stephen Goranson =
> <goranson at duke.edu>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>=20
> >>>> Fwiw, I've heard "shut up talking..." before.
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>> So have I. What should a person say, instead? "Don't talk about..."?
> >> "Stop
> >>> talking about..."? "Peace. Be still about... Does "Shut up talking
> >>> about..." really strike people as an odd construction, even odder =
> than
> >>> "splitting" an infinitive with "not"?
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>> --
> >>> -Wilson
> >>> -----
> >>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint =
> to
> >>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>> -Mark Twain
> >>>=20
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> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
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"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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