[Ads-l] "a nice name for a nasty thing"

Tue Apr 12 20:12:16 UTC 2016

> On Apr 12, 2016, at 3:23 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> LH: In modern times, Alan Bennett's 2004 play "The History Boys" has
> an instance: "Only a euphemism is a nice way of saying something
> nasty." (Match visible in Google Books Preview).

Thanks, but seems awfully recent.
> 
> Here are two pertinent citations from a preliminary search. Please
> double-check for typos and other errors before use.
> 
> Date: July 23, 1880
> Periodical: The Wheeling Daily Intelligencer
> Quote Page 2
> Newspaper Location: Wheeling, West Virginia
> Article: The Scene of Wednesday's Catastrophe--The Great Tunnel
> Underneath the Hudson
> Database: Chronicling America
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__1.usa.gov_25XRiEh&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=Ct0snslVlSEA93f67HylE9_9fd0GJlOggyeyiuYdF7Y&s=Sv-v82SFPvzzBKIbxkGEz98xkTTaFjZtmaZy2rOJb40&e= 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__chroniclingamerica.loc.gov_lccn_sn84026844_1880-2D07-2D23_ed-2D1_seq-2D2.pdf&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=Ct0snslVlSEA93f67HylE9_9fd0GJlOggyeyiuYdF7Y&s=6ZSv4swgb4NKODvrL-XKK6KbTvNIkVVMAenK1g8YKpA&e= 
> 
> [Begin excerpt]
> The borings determined that the bottom of the river was a silt,—a nice
> name for nasty mud, of a blue-black color in this instance,—growing
> more and more tenacious the further it was penetrated.
> [End excerpt]
> 
> 
> Date: August 05, 1897
> Periodical: Ranche and Range
> Quote Page 12
> Newspaper Location: North Yakima, Washington
> Section: The Apiary
> Article: The Failure of a Honey Corp
> Author: J. P. Berg
> Database: Chronicling America
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__1.usa.gov_23BWUSH&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=Ct0snslVlSEA93f67HylE9_9fd0GJlOggyeyiuYdF7Y&s=16zN8tn3Or311hDkgxlPrKJ_CvBp_rb4Am5h7OdAaSc&e= 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__chroniclingamerica.loc.gov_lccn_2007252185_1897-2D08-2D05_ed-2D1_seq-2D12.pdf&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=Ct0snslVlSEA93f67HylE9_9fd0GJlOggyeyiuYdF7Y&s=Pb3LzWZcj4a--V5AZF_134v8l9dU3y_IEOFIIZHVHs8&e= 
> 
> [Begin excerpt]
> The third is the absence of flowing nectar in the flower, caused by
> extreme wet, dry or cold weather. In the absence of this nectar the
> bees will hunt for a substitute and in doing so will find honey-dew (a
> nice name for a nasty thing;) neither honey or dew, but  the refuse of
> the aphis.

Yes, that was one of the four [!] hits via Google (along with one claiming somewhat overheatedly that "puppy love" is a nice name for a nasty thing), but again that struck me, rightly or wrongly, as presupposing an earlier apothegm that a euphemism is, definitionally, "a nice name for a nasty thing".  I don't suppose that this particular case of prettying up aphis-shit* by calling it honey-dew led to the general establishment of the definition.  

(*Aphis-shit is better than no shit at all?)

> 
> Garson
> 
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 2:09 PM, Jesse Sheidlower <jester at panix.com> wrote:
>> Grose's _Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue_ (1785) famously defined "C**t" as "a nasty name for a nasty thing".

Yup, found that one too--but I was thinking that that gloss would have been prompted by, and contrastively opposed to, the gloss on euphemisms, *nice* names for nasty things.  Sort of like "He's a wolf in wolf's clothing".  But then again we're talking Grose.  

LH

>> 
>> Jesse Sheidlower
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 02:04:55PM -0400, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>> Can anyone help me track down the first use of this definition of euphemism?  Google hits on the phrase are amazingly scanty--just four, including this as the earliest:
>>> 
>>> The Observer March 9, 1939 Page 1
>>> 
>>> "Birth control is a nice name for a nasty thing"
>>> 
>>> (In the left column--well, physically left, anyway--just under the story about the heroic victory of the Spanish people, under the steady guidance of Generalissimo Franco with a little help from his friends, over the "foul and fell foes of the Spanish and Catholic name")
>>> 
>>> But this usage seems to presuppose an earlier common ground in which the phrase is standardly used to characterize euphemism.  Garson? Anyone?
>>> 
>>> LH
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=Ct0snslVlSEA93f67HylE9_9fd0GJlOggyeyiuYdF7Y&s=ez3uX2qW1Sa6AqfeMvpnLCtmxnaCubFrc2zi-6I2kyI&e= 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=Ct0snslVlSEA93f67HylE9_9fd0GJlOggyeyiuYdF7Y&s=ez3uX2qW1Sa6AqfeMvpnLCtmxnaCubFrc2zi-6I2kyI&e= 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=Ct0snslVlSEA93f67HylE9_9fd0GJlOggyeyiuYdF7Y&s=ez3uX2qW1Sa6AqfeMvpnLCtmxnaCubFrc2zi-6I2kyI&e= 

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org