[Ads-l] New to me: _wet signature_ > 'Manually'

Baker, John JBAKER at STRADLEY.COM
Mon May 2 17:17:41 UTC 2016


Notwithstanding all this, there is a pretty strong presumption that a manual signature is signed with a hand.  I leave aside such esoteric situations as handicapped persons who lack or cannot use their hands and therefore use other parts of the body for cursive writing.


John Baker


-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Laurence Horn
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 3:43 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: New to me: _wet signature_ > 'Manually'

Yes, that was discussed in our thread last summer--Jon, Joel, Dan and possibly others commented along similar lines after Margaret kicked the thread off.

LH

> On May 2, 2016, at 3:40 PM, Geoffrey Steven Nathan <geoffnathan at WAYNE.EDU> wrote:
> 
> I suspect this has been discussed in the past, but 'manually' has metaphorically extended far beyond 'have to use your hand to do it'. 
> 
> For example, in the computing realm certain kinds of things need to be set up 'manually'.  When folks have trouble connecting their iPhones to our mailservers, for example, we walk them through setting their phone up 'manually' (i.e. as opposed to having the phone do it 'automatically'.)
> 
> In fact, if anyone happens to be teaching Cognitive Semantics, making sense of this use of 'manually' would make a good term paper topic...
> 
> Geoff
> 
> Geoffrey S. Nathan
> WSU Information Privacy Officer
> Professor, Linguistics Program
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blogs.wayne.edu_proftech_&d=AwIFAw&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=ccyookO3DxAUqBWMvMRZ6DjYuHFH7zm5MpLEweTwfVY&s=6tyH3gl6uMyu3fVYPco_xPpNA0oPHkgRX2P3UA0XQpY&e= 
> +1 (313) 577-1259
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> Nobody at Wayne State will EVER ask you for your password. Never send it to anyone in an email, no matter how authentic the email looks.
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> on behalf of Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: New to me: _wet signature_
> 
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: New to me: _wet signature_
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>> On May 2, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Baker, John <JBaker at STRADLEY.COM> wrote:
>> =20
>> I should clarify that when I say a wet signature is more traditionally =
> known as a manual signature, I mean by lawyers.  And really, the more =
> common phrasing is that a document must be "manually signed."  In the =
> days before electronic signatures, this would be in contrast to a =
> photocopy, a stamped signature, or a "conformed signature," which would =
> be a typed "/s/ John Doe" on a copy to indicate that John Doe had =
> manually signed the original.
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
> And it's nice to know that even if it's called a manual signature, we've =
> learned from the thread that began with Margaret Lee's post last July--
> 
> Subaru  has released a notice to owners of their Outback, Crosstrek, and =
> Legacy models that the vehicles' Eyesight Driver Assist System is now a =
> safety hazard due to a "brake lamp switch failure."  Eyesight is a =
> safety device that is supposed to warn the driver of an imminent frontal =
> collision and automatically stop the vehicle. In light of this safety =
> defect, the driver will now have to "manually apply the brake pedal,"  =
> according to the notice.  Does _manually_  now also mean performed by =
> the foot?
> 
> --and follow-ups thereto that it allows for documents being signed with =
> one's foot.  Useful for when a lawyer is soft-pedaling an argument.
> 
> LH
>> =20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On =
> Behalf Of Kate Svoboda-Spanbock
>> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 12:26 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: New to me: _wet signature_
>> =20
>> FWIW, it's a term that has been in use in architecture for at least =
> the 29 years that I have been in the field.=20
>> =20
>> I have never heard the term 'manual signature.'
>> =20
>> --
>> Kate Svoboda-Spanbock
>> katesvobodaspanbock at gmail.com
>> 310-880-3091
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> On May 2, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> =
> wrote:
>> =20
>>> This is all very interesting.  Thanks for the clarification.  I was =
> wondering whether hand-signed but scanned attachments or faxes would =
> count, but apparently not, given the second criterion.  It seems that at =
> no stage did the requirement specify what I think of as literally a wet =
> signature, using fountain pen or felt tip (or blood) as opposed to =
> ballpoint.  That would be a pretty silly requirement, to be sure, but =
> one never knows, do one?
>>> =20
>>> LH
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>>> On May 2, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Baker, John <JBaker at STRADLEY.COM> =
> wrote:
>>>> =20
>>>> As a lawyer, I do work in this area.  The article to which Benjamin =
> links is a somewhat accurate guide.
>>>> =20
>>>> Essentially, a "wet signature" is an original signature, the kind =
> that is traditionally done with a pen on paper.  It is more =
> traditionally referred to as a manual signature.  However, "wet =
> signature" is now used in statutes and regulations, and it has become =
> almost as popular as "manual signature."  The earliest example of "wet =
> signature" that I see is from a 1990 ruling of the Comptroller General =
> of the United States (the head of what was then known as the General =
> Accounting Office and is now the General Accountability Office, an =
> oversight agency that reports to the U.S. Congress), In Re Bird =
> Construction, 1990 WL 278499 (Comp. Gen. Sept. 19, 1990):
>>>> =20
>>>> "It is of no consequence that the facsimile copy of the bond Bird =
> submitted with its bid contained Bird's original "wet signature" since =
> the bond did not contain the original signature of the surety, creating =
> serious doubt about the liability of the surety which could be resolved =
> only by referring to documents submitted after bid opening."
>>>> =20
>>>> Note that there are two requirements for a signature to be "wet."  =
> First, it must be generated physically and not electronically.  Second, =
> it must be the original and not a photocopy, fax, or other reproduction.
>>>> =20
>>>> In general, under the Uniform Commercial Code signatures include =
> "any symbol executed or adopted with present intention to adopt or =
> accept a writing."  U.C.C. =A7 1-201(b)(37).  This would include, for =
> example, a name affixed to a telegram.  Prior to 2000, it was generally =
> a matter of state law whether a particular document required a manual =
> signature or could instead be signed in some other manner.  However, the =
> Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, often =
> referred to as "ESIGN," was passed in 2000 and preempts other laws that =
> may require manual signatures, unless they fall within one of several =
> exemptions (e.g., states can still require wills to be manually signed). =
> Documents subject to the Uniform Commercial Code generally are =
> controlled by the UCC rather than by ESIGN, but the UCC has similar =
> provisions.
>>>> =20
>>>> ESIGN provides that "The term "electronic signature" means an =
> electronic sound, symbol, or process, attached to or logically =
> associated with a contract or other record and executed or adopted by a =
> person with the intent to sign the record."  ESIGN =A7 106(5), 15 U.S.C. =
> =A7 7006(5).  That has generally been a workable definition, but breaks =
> down when applied to automatically generated signature blocks in email, =
> such as the one that my firm uses, below.  (I usually edit this out for =
> ADS-L posts, but am leaving it in for purposes of illustration.) =20
>>>> =20
>>>> The linked article also talks about "digital signatures."  Contrary =
> to the article, a digital signature is not necessarily a signature at =
> all.  It is simply an electronic verification of the authenticity of a =
> document.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> John M. Baker
>>>> Stradley Ronon Stevens & Young, LLP
>>>> 1250 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., Suite 500
>>>> Washington, DC 20036-2652
>>>> p: 202.419.8413
>>>> f: 202.822.0140
>>>> =20
>>>> This e-mail is from the law firm of Stradley Ronon Stevens & Young, =
> LLP, and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If =
> you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy or distribute the =
> e-mail or any attachments. Instead, please notify the sender and delete =
> the e-mail and attachments. Thank you.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On =
> Behalf Of Benjamin Barrett
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 12:04 AM
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: New to me: _wet signature_
>>>> =20
>>>> New to me; definitely a useful retronym. Here's a page that =
> describes the differences between [I just can't do "among" in situations =
> like this] wet, electronic and digital signatures:
>>>> =20
>>>> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.laserfiche.com_=
> ecmblog_whats-2Dthe-2Ddifference-2Dbetween-2Dwet-2Ddigital-2Dand-2Delectro=
> nic-2Dsignatures_&d=3DAwIGaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu39hB2b=
> f13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dbo7dS_iQmaePi68S-KlsHv4W6AeqZu_y90a8rbMY=
> _1w&s=3D3BzPhuOu1coxdLR8KGcRm9SjI59PyoE6LYlreE4WRuY&e=3D=20
>>>> =20
>>>> Benjamin Barrett
>>>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>>> On 1 May 2016, at 20:54, Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>> =20
>>>>> "Wet signature" means that an actual signature in blue or black ink =
> is
>>>>> necessary. A photocopy will not suffice.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Of course, the term once had a literal meaning:
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Illustrated Naval and Military Magazine: A Monthly Journal ... Page =
> 70
>>>>> =
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__books.google.com_bo=
> oks-3Fid-3DpQ4AAAAAMAAJ&d=3DAwIGaQ&c=3D-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=3DwFp3X4Mu=
> 39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=3Dbo7dS_iQmaePi68S-KlsHv4W6AeqZu_y90=
> a8rbMY_1w&s=3DTBOtabEVOh9rPXPCqXgwiCo1-TpSiaLnLT6tgKLPn_I&e=3D=20
>>>>> 1885 - Read
>>>>> The clerk returned with the letter signed, blotted the still-wet =
> signature,
>>>>> folded up and directed the reply, and silently handed it to its =
> bearer, who
>>>>> almost as silently wended his way to the quarters of his Chief in =
> the Royal
>>>>> Arsenal.
>>>> =20
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>>>> =20
>>>> =20
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