[Ads-l] -hootered

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Sat May 14 16:32:01 EDT 2016


> Is there a clean original of the Good Ship Venus?
No, but it must have gotten dirtier, what with the addition of more
and more stanzas. Ipso facto, QED.

Factoid: _The Collins Spanish Dictionary_ Third ed. (N.Y.: Harper
Collins, 1992), p. 607, to illustrate use of the word “ship” in
English gives as an ex.: “the good ship Venus el buque Venus, el
Venus."
No "[!"] required.

> I assume your chronology factors in the relative unlikelihood of earlier obscene versions seeing the light of print.

Natch. But the evidence we got is all the evidence we got. Have you a
copy of my unpublished monograph on "The Bloody Great Wheel"?

Here's another early ref. to Riley:

1858 in [J. C. Alter & R. J. Dwyer, eds.] "Journal of Captain Albert
Tracy," _Utah Historical Qly._ XIII (1945) 27: The rich strains of our
Band, then were wasted somewhat, except to our own ears, upon these
echoing, empty streets and tenements [of Salt Lake City]. ...[T]he
adjutant, to break the monotony of more regular marches, directed the
Band to strike up that most inspiring, if less reputable air y-clept
"One-Eyed Riley." The men, unfamiliar with the notes now given to the
breeze, kept step as they rarely had done before, and general sense of
"the humor of the thing
 came to prevail.

Tracy ventures no text. The curious may seek out English broadsides
titled "The Rover," which tells pretty much the same story, though
without anybody named "Riley"; and the (somewhat later) "Paddy Will
You Now," sung, for example, aboard the ship _Admittance_ (Boston, 420
tons), engaged in the California sea-otter trade,1842-46. By today's
rap standards both songs barely rate an "R."

If that.

P.S.: This stuff has slumbered in my archives for too long.

JL




On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> Interesting; thanks, Jon.  I'd have guessed (in fact I did guess) just the opposite--that the juicier and bawdier version was the original (as with euphemism in general) and that the more presentable (and performable) versions came later.  (I love "monorchid"; I'd have probably settled for the much less elegant, although perhaps more transparent, "monotesticular". In the land of the castrati, the monorchidian man is king?)  Is there a clean original of the Good Ship Venus?  Hard to believe.  I assume your chronology factors in the relative unlikelihood of earlier obscene versions seeing the light of print.
>
> LH
>
>> On May 14, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>> What little evidence has survived suggests that the villain was indeed
>> originally monocular and not monorchid.  E.g.:
>>
>> 1895 Thomas West Smith *The Story of a Cavalry Regiment: “Scott’s 900,”
>> Eleventh New York* *Cavalry *(Chicago: Veteran Association of the Regiment,
>> 1895)  23 [ref. to Army of the Potomac, 1862]: Around the camp fire one
>> could listen to song and jest and story; and far into the night could be
>> heard the sigh or laugh which followed the plaintive notes of "Annie
>> Laurie"’ or the rollicking words of  "One- Eyed Riley."
>>
>> From a note I sent some ten years since to the Ballad List:
>>
>> John Martin, a sailor on board the whale ship _Lucy Ann_ (Wilmington, Del.)
>> noted the song title "One eyed [sic] Riley" in his journal for Feb. 16,
>> 1842, as being the curtain-raiser of a shipboard "concert" off the coast of
>> Brazil.  It was followed immediately by "There was a Sheppards daughter
>> Kept sheep on yonder hill" (undoubtedly Child 110) and "I hit her right on
>> her stinking machine."  Stuart M. Frank lists the entire "programme" and
>> attempts to identify the songs (most of which seem to be tamer than the
>> opening numbers) in his 1986 Brown University diss. (pp. 1047-48).
>>
>> Such songs tend to get bawdier, not cleaner, with the passage of time.
>>
>> More background on request.
>>
>>
>> JL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> On May 14, 2016, at 9:49 AM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> there's a song I'm thinking of called "One-Ball Reilly"
>>>>
>>>> Politely "One-Eyed."
>>>>
>>>> JL
>>>
>>> Yes, when I looked for a YouTube performance to link to my message, all I
>>> could find was the bowdlerized version as performed e.g. by Tommy Makem &
>>> the Clancy Brothers.  Extant lyrics for "One-Ball(ed) Riley" (or "Reilly")
>>> can be located, however.  When we compare the new version to the original,
>>> we observe that Makem/Clancy incorporate more changes than merely the
>>> rediagnosis of the title character's condition (yet another instance of
>>> Freud's "displacement upwards").  Compare, for example, the chorus and a
>>> random verse:
>>>
>>>
>>> Refined version (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DysMvI5i5Bgg&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=zSBd-I8_pntE6EYTpYk3EUYDPMddRzSyOSbPedc5DSc&s=vtGSG2oAD5ZaPXEWAsM3WnOmfOkIODo5BUwXGxbzhso&e= )
>>>
>>> Giddy I ae, giddy I ae, giddy I ae for the one-eyed Reilly
>>> Giddy I ae, (clap, clap, clap) try it on your old big drum
>>> ...
>>> I caught old Reilly by the hair,
>>> rammed his head in a pail of water
>>> Fired his pistols into the air,
>>> a damned sight quicker than I married his daughter
>>>
>>>
>>> Original version (from a field recording on my iTunes by John Patrick
>>> (collected by Sandy Paton);
>>> for a closely related version cf.
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.traditionalmusic.co.uk_bawdy-2Dsongs_008618.HTM&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=zSBd-I8_pntE6EYTpYk3EUYDPMddRzSyOSbPedc5DSc&s=UvtM8AA5jroFJ7ZCnVwz7mV02P9GlJJz8P_V5C0n5ZM&e=  <
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.traditionalmusic.co.uk_bawdy-2Dsongs_008618.HTM&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=zSBd-I8_pntE6EYTpYk3EUYDPMddRzSyOSbPedc5DSc&s=UvtM8AA5jroFJ7ZCnVwz7mV02P9GlJJz8P_V5C0n5ZM&e= >
>>>
>>> Fiddle-E-I-E, Fiddle-E-I-O
>>> Fiddle-E-I-E for the one-balled Reilly
>>> Rigga-jig-jig, balls and all
>>> Rub-a-dub-dub, shag on!
>>> ...
>>> Well, I knocked him down onto the floor
>>> Shoved his head in a bucket o' water
>>> Rammed the pistols up his are
>>> A damn sight further than I'd shagged his daughter.
>>>
>>> LH
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>> LH
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Screech owls may be described as "loud-hootered."
>>>>>
>>>>> JL
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 1:03 AM, Benjamin Barrett <
>>> mail.barretts at gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> LMAO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought today that I came up with examples of body parts that don’t
>>>>>> work, but I found them all on Google:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> big-foreheaded
>>>>>> big-buttocked
>>>>>> big-penised
>>>>>> big-calved
>>>>>> big-shinned
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Benjamin Barrett
>>>>>> Formerly of Seattle, WA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13 May 2016, at 08:35, Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While researching the verb "schlong" after Trump's notorious usage, I
>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> to keep filtering out "long-schlonged," "big-schlonged,"
>>>>>> "mini-schlonged,"
>>>>>>> etc. from my searches on the simple past / past participle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Benjamin Barrett <
>>>>>> mail.barretts at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You mean that the grammar allows body parts to become adjectives, as
>>> in
>>>>>>>> big-footed? That’s a good point. (I have trouble with “a big-penised
>>>>>> man”
>>>>>>>> but perhaps it’s all right.) BB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12 May 2016, at 23:08, Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The construction is standard; it's just its use with this noun
>>> that's
>>>>>>>> novel.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2016 7:52 PM, "Benjamin Barrett" <
>>> mail.barretts at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mail.barretts at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not on Wiktionary or the Oxford Dictionary site. Googling yields
>>>>>>>> primarily
>>>>>>>>>> hits for pornographic videos.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Sundays with Vlad: From Wal-Mart to Transylvania, One Man's
>>> Quest
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> Live in the World of the Undead
>>>>>>>>>> by Paul Bibeau
>>>>>>>>>> 2007
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why not feature Chucky as one of Dracula's minions and have him
>>>>>> staked
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> a wisecracking, big-hootered paralegal with a little help from
>>> Molly
>>>>>>>>>> Ringwald?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. How To Fish An Ocean Pier
>>>>>>>>>> by ACTivist
>>>>>>>>>> 20 May 2012
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__novatownhall.com_2012_05_20_how-2Dto-2Dfish-2Dan-2Docean-2Dpier_&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=4sU5EaUeM3qvz7xHehuSngQudhEW7ougtdwOGQuaTj8&e=
>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__novatownhall.com_2012_05_20_how-2Dto-2Dfish-2Dan-2Docean-2Dpier_&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=4sU5EaUeM3qvz7xHehuSngQudhEW7ougtdwOGQuaTj8&e=
>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__novatownhall.com_2012_05_20_how-2Dto-2Dfish-2Dan-2Docean-2Dpier_&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=4sU5EaUeM3qvz7xHehuSngQudhEW7ougtdwOGQuaTj8&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DON’T be fooled by those big hootered women in the short skirts who
>>>>>>>> smile
>>>>>>>>>> the whole time they are lying to you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3. heavily hootered
>>>>>>>>>> by dawg32123212345
>>>>>>>>>> 04 August 2008
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.urbandictionary.com_define.php-3Fterm-3Dheavily-2520hootered&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=Bm4d1rCBg_pSEz1roMkrYFjYdHwcqB610yAC7-r1lAI&e=
>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.urbandictionary.com_define.php-3Fterm-3Dheavily-2520hootered&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=Bm4d1rCBg_pSEz1roMkrYFjYdHwcqB610yAC7-r1lAI&e=
>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.urbandictionary.com_define.php-3Fterm-3Dheavily-2520hootered&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=Bm4d1rCBg_pSEz1roMkrYFjYdHwcqB610yAC7-r1lAI&e=
>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.urbandictionary.com_define.php-3Fterm-3Dheavily-2520hootered&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=Bm4d1rCBg_pSEz1roMkrYFjYdHwcqB610yAC7-r1lAI&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [definition useless]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 4. Why does it seem so trendy lately for large hootered women to do
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> chopdown?
>>>>>>>>>> by Barack Insane Muslama
>>>>>>>>>> Not dated
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__answers.yahoo.com_question_index-3Fqid-3D20160428021349AAAzb5R&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=dzctutJ2fGHU5SRFsuwYrbaQQx7ZtbIvS9hILwpcmCU&e=
>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__answers.yahoo.com_question_index-3Fqid-3D20160428021349AAAzb5R&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=dzctutJ2fGHU5SRFsuwYrbaQQx7ZtbIvS9hILwpcmCU&e=
>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__answers.yahoo.com_question_index-3Fqid-3D20160428021349AAAzb5R&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=dzctutJ2fGHU5SRFsuwYrbaQQx7ZtbIvS9hILwpcmCU&e=
>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__answers.yahoo.com_question_index-3Fqid-3D20160428021349AAAzb5R&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=dzctutJ2fGHU5SRFsuwYrbaQQx7ZtbIvS9hILwpcmCU&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As they are destroying what God blessed them with (and what so many
>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>>>> hootered women go under the knife to obtain) is it also just one
>>> more
>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>> for the atheist retards to spit in religion's eye?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=m_PLD0PaJyA9eav3jdRNR6E52pbWP4mPlOOGJFAVl-0&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=m_PLD0PaJyA9eav3jdRNR6E52pbWP4mPlOOGJFAVl-0&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=V0C15fb_uXJP1jae6h-DpCGpphyqzQXGrLVKMhCnRYE&s=m_PLD0PaJyA9eav3jdRNR6E52pbWP4mPlOOGJFAVl-0&e=
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=zSBd-I8_pntE6EYTpYk3EUYDPMddRzSyOSbPedc5DSc&s=fPFC4ZCdGKuLXd8p55DgDjXYZMuXbSdU8uOMwiMF0FY&e=
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=zSBd-I8_pntE6EYTpYk3EUYDPMddRzSyOSbPedc5DSc&s=fPFC4ZCdGKuLXd8p55DgDjXYZMuXbSdU8uOMwiMF0FY&e=
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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