[Ads-l] Offline: quote: fire in a wooden box

Peter Reitan pjreitan at HOTMAIL.COM
Wed May 25 16:35:39 EDT 2016


The original is available here, published 1901: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924087939280;view=1up;seq=35

> Date: Tue, 24 May 2016 19:20:24 -0400
> From: adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: quote: fire in a wooden box
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> 
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       ADSGarson O'Toole <adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: quote: fire in a wooden box
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Here is a link to a PDF that discusses the original German instance of
> the saying "wood fire in a wooden oven". The PDF provides a citation
> and a translation. (I have not verified this information. Please
> double-check this text.)
> 
> Title: A terminological jeu d=E2=80=99esprit
> Name: David A Reibel =E2=80=94 T=C3=BCbingen & York (UK)
> 
> http://davidareibel.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/MAUTH_4.pdf
> 
> [Begin short excerpt of English translation]
> How shall then the vessel contain the contents?  Is it not then as if
> one tries to light a wood fire in a wooden oven?  Must not the
> contents destroy the container?
> [End excerpt]
> 
> Here are longer excerpts:
> 
> [Begin excerpt from David A Reibel's PDF]
> Wir nennen die deutliche Erinnerung an einen Sinneseindruck, eine
> Beobachtung (im Gegensatz zu der undeutlichen Erinnerung, dem
> Glauben), unser Wissen einer Sache.  [Elaborate etymology of Wissen
> (=E2=80=98knowledge=E2=80=99), deriving it from gesehen haben (=E2=80=98to =
> have seen=E2=80=99),  and
> of Wissenschaft omitted.]
> 
> Was Wissenschaft [sc Wissenschaft der Sprache; linguistic knowledge is
> memory. DAR] vermag, ist doch immer nur einige Uebersichtlichkeit =C3=BCber
> die Erinnerungen herzustellen. Das Mittel der Uebersicht ist die
> Sprache, die ihrem Wesen nach klassifiziert und klassifizierend
> erinnert.  Schlimm f=C3=BCr den Menschen, wenn er die Sprache selbst zum
> Gegenstande einer Wissenschaft zu machen wagt; Gegenstand der
> Erinnerung und Zeichen der Erinnerung, Stoff der Erkenntnis und Form
> der Erkenntnis fallen dann zusammen.  Wie soll da das Gef=C3=A4ss den
> Inhalt fassen?  Ist es nicht, als ob man ein Holzfeuer in einem
> h=C3=B6lzernen Ofen anz=C3=BCnden wollte?  Muss das Innere nicht das Aeusse=
> re
> zerst=C3=B6ren? (Beitr=C3=A4ge zu einer Kritik der Sprache, Band I, S. 267)=
> . 5
> [End excerpt]
> 
> [Begin excerpt of translation in David A Reibel's PDF]
> We call the clear memory of a sense-impression an observation (in
> contrast to unclear memory, belief), our knowledge of a thing.  [...]
> 
> What science [the science of language] can do however is only always
> to establish a certain clarity of view over memories. The means of the
> overview is language, which depending on its nature classifies and by
> classifying remembers.  This is unfortunate for the person who dares
> to make language itself into the subject of  a science.  The object of
> memory and the symbol of the memory, matter of cognition and form of
> cognition, fall then together.  How shall then the vessel contain the
> contents?  Is it not then as if one tries to light a wood fire in a
> wooden oven?  Must not the contents destroy the container? [DAR] 6
> [Begin excerpt]
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
 		 	   		  
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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