[Ads-l] Urban legend? Or fact?

Robin Hamilton robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM
Thu Oct 6 12:15:03 EDT 2016


<<  Even predicative ("X is widely beloved/beloved by all")? For me, as noted,
these are bi-, not tri-. And they're adjectives. ("Despite his many scandals, he
remains beloved to many")

LH  >>

Not something that I'd naturally say.  It reminds me all too much of the
Protestant Marriage Ceremony --"Dearly beloved, we are gathered here together to
witness the union of a man and a woman".  Well, one would hope not, at least not
in polite company.  But if I were to use it, it would be tri-syllabic in my
idiolect.

But given that I'm here calling up a specific social/religious/geographic
context, this suggests that part, at least, of the choice of two or three is a
matter of convention.  Or linguistic history, if the "be" in "beloved" racks
back to the "3e" of the Middle English past participle (have I got that right?).

Not saying it does, but Wilson's point elsewhere on this thread about the
redundancy of "be" in "beloved" made me to think.  That sent me (naturally
enough) to our good friend the Yogh.  At least if you skip over the possibility
that the "be" in "beloved" is a simple intensifier.

Ygone (ppl)  --  totorren (intensifier) -- beloved (???)   ...

But I'm babbling -- is there an historical linguist in the house who could
resolve this issue?

Robin 

____________________

> [But whether this is dialect, idiolect, convention, or just plain confusion on
> my part, deponent avereth naught.]
>
> Also, for what it's worth, I pronounce "striped" with long diphthong.
>
> Robin Hamilton
>
>>
>> On 06 October 2016 at 15:41 Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 6, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Jim Parish <jparish at SIUE.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not so sure: "his beloved books" and similar constructions seem to
>>> me to call for the trisyllable.
>>>
>>> Jim Parish
>>
>> Yeah, maybe I was a bit hasty on the "usually". There may be a general
>> distinction between attributive and predicative uses; "X is beloved by all"
>> is
>> definitely bisyllabic for me. Has this been discussed anywhere?
>>
>> LH
>>
>>
>> P.S. Are there any speakers who rhyme "baked" and "naked"?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 10/6/2016 9:02 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>>> There's also "beloved". I think it's always "dearly belov-ed", but
>>>> otherwise usually two syllables rather than three.
>>>>
>>>> LH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 5, 2016, at 9:42 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The only one I vacilalte about is "learned", vs. "learn-ed" when I
>>>>> want to say it as an adjective. And for the adj. in writing, I want to
>>>>> add an acute accent to the second "e".
>>>>>
>>>>> Joel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dave Hause <dwhause at CABLEMO.NET>
>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:35 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Urban legend? Or fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> AUGGHH! Until you asked, it hadn't occurred to me. Now, the answer has
>>>>> suddenly become, "I think maybe it is, sometimes, but I can't be sure
>>>>> of the
>>>>> circumstances." But I know it doesn't sound dysphonious. Inconclusive
>>>>> self-analysis!
>>>>> Dave Hause
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Wilson Gray
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:17 PM
>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>> Subject: Urban legend? Or fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> Agent Orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Agent-5FOrange&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=wlk3fYUlu36LThnA2K8ZWmAmBV-PVfzh2ohzp_EHwvg&s=4KBpq-z5bNmTBs-jFD5v1dyEh65MCW-N-YzjWj2eMhw&e=
>>>>> It was given its name from the color of the orange-striped barrels in
>>>>> which
>>>>> it was shipped and was, by far, the most widely-used of the so-called
>>>>> "rainbow herbicides."
>>>>>
>>>>> And is _striped_ disyllabic for anyone else but me?
>>>>> --
>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=wlk3fYUlu36LThnA2K8ZWmAmBV-PVfzh2ohzp_EHwvg&s=PlWzmifirJozD6lVL_ttOY_OxJ9MKhvVHFX6XojW2lc&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=wlk3fYUlu36LThnA2K8ZWmAmBV-PVfzh2ohzp_EHwvg&s=PlWzmifirJozD6lVL_ttOY_OxJ9MKhvVHFX6XojW2lc&e=
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIC-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=QXc8xqw6MSVJBoQ5TnSCOq8O-cT1yDcKBcZKNYHDKVI&s=2L9f8mjwW5sSbQf2ip7t6uz7fcS1uQBKabX5ggDnH6Q&e=
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society -
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwIC-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=QXc8xqw6MSVJBoQ5TnSCOq8O-cT1yDcKBcZKNYHDKVI&s=2L9f8mjwW5sSbQf2ip7t6uz7fcS1uQBKabX5ggDnH6Q&e=
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society -
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=g-4HnKaY1GGbe5yF_CylAV5Qfv8n6mn-SYZFFvtUWpg&s=TkUIpg1rJ6rvzt-6xcEhYVWQKPXHkJyPLfXOOR8n_jY&e=
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society -
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.americandialect.org&d=CwICaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=wFp3X4Mu39hB2bf13gtz0ZpW1TsSxPIWYiZRsMFFaLQ&m=g-4HnKaY1GGbe5yF_CylAV5Qfv8n6mn-SYZFFvtUWpg&s=TkUIpg1rJ6rvzt-6xcEhYVWQKPXHkJyPLfXOOR8n_jY&e=

>

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