[Ads-l] "old boy" = the devil

Joel Berson berson at ATT.NET
Wed Sep 21 15:08:48 EDT 2016


"Sate" is surely "sat":  "


      From: Benjamin Barrett <mail.barretts at GMAIL.COM>
 To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "old boy" = the devil
   
http://www.blue-moon-manor.com/faq.html#2 uses the word “crafter” to describe someone who uses witchcraft. FWIW. BB

> On 20 Sep 2016, at 20:53, Benjamin Barrett <mail.barretts at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 1. The Boston Globe is happy with “cratten.”
> 
> http://bit.ly/2csPajG
> What the Salem witch trials taught us about language
> by Britt Peterson
> 
> ——
> The documents feature obsolete words and words that have shifted their meaning, including “silly,” to mean ignorant; “paragon,” a wool or silk fabric; “old cratten,” the devil; “burling,” meaning whirling or twisting; and “behaged,” meaning bewitched.
> ——
> 
> I’m not convinced, however. The “crafty” meaning seems at least likely.
> 
> 2. http://bit.ly/2cSZoHm
> The Century Dictionary: An Encyclopedic Lexicon of the English Language, Part 5
> ed. William Dwight Whitney
> 
> craft < ME craften, play tricks. 
> 
> 3. cræft (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cræft)
> 
> a device, especially magical
> wæs æfre unbegunnen Scyppend, se ðe gemacode swylcne cræft: the Creator, who made such a work, was ever without beginning.
> deceit, fraud
> cræfta gehwilc byð cealde forgolden: all deceits will be forgotten coldly
> 
> 4. The word appears in an ME dictionary at http://bit.ly/2cl60gR.
> 
> FWIW, it seems also possible that the final letter is an “r” though I did not find anything convincing on Google Books.
> ——
> 
> However, the text seems to be differentiating the devil from the craften: old nick or else old craften sate over ye bedshed
> 
> I suppose “else” could mean “that is to say.”
> 
> Also, what does “sate” mean? I looked at the jpeg, and it seems to be more likely to be “safe” (is she not worried because Old Nick/Old Crafter is safe over the bed, i.e., watching over her?) but I never read these sorts of documents. 
> 
> Benjamin Barrett
> Formerly of Seattle, WA
> 
>> On 20 Sep 2016, at 20:29, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
>> 
>> For "crafter" instead of "craften":
>> 
>> 
>> How about La'y'amons Brut, or Chronicle of Britain, a poetical semi-Saxon ..., Volume 2By Layamon:  Glossary, p. 543.  craeft, craft:  craft, guile; pl. craften.  Perhaps the 1692 deposition is meant to be "crafter", guiler, deceiver, the Devil??  Or is this reaching at straws too?  Google Books, full view, (which I have not enlarged), https://books.google.com/books?id=bmQIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA543&dq=craften&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiloYGdvp_PAhUj64MKHX3XD1QQ6AEITzAJ#v=onepage&q=craften&f=false
>> 
>> 
>> Joel
>> 
>>    From: Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET>
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU 
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "old boy" = the devil + OED antedating of "Old Roger".
>> 
>> Only if "craften" or "craffen" or "cratter" lead nowhere also.
>> 
>> Joel
>> 
>> 
>>      From: Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM>
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU 
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 3:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "old boy" = the devil + OED antedating of "Old Roger".
>> 
>> Could it be a mis-hearing on the part of the person writing the words down
>> originally?  Or am I grasping after straws?
>> 
>> RH.
>> 
>>> 
>>>    On 20 September 2016 at 19:24 Hugo <hugovk at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that the term used
>>>> was actually "cratter", and the sense was "old creature".
>>> 
>>>> JB: I've looked only at the two 1890's transcriptions, and the
>>>> manuscript Hugo provided to the list. But in the manuscript I did not
>>>> look further than the portion that used "old man", and I don't know
>>>> whether Hugo's scrap shows "cratten".
>>> 
>>>    http://salem.lib.virginia.edu/archives/ecca/medium/ecca1157r.jpg
>>> 
>>>    http://salem.lib.virginia.edu/texts/tei/swp?term=cratten÷_id=n69.5&chapter_id=n69
>>> 
>>>    It's the fourth line from the end, fourth word along (above "mother").
>>>    Looks like an "n" in the manuscript, and distinct from other "r"
>>>    letters. If not "cratten", it could be "craften" or "craffen", but I
>>>    don't think those are any more helpful.
>>> 
>>>    Hugo

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