[Ads-l] paddy wagon

Jonathan Lighter wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Tue Aug 1 20:59:30 EDT 2017


CNN:

"President Trump's mention of 'paddy wagon' insults Irish Americans like
me."

JL

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
wrote:

> > On Jul 30, 2017, at 9:09 AM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>
> wrote:
> >
> > Scanning a problem too with "They call the wind Mariah with a(n) [aj],
> not be be confused with a problem like Maria
> or with the name that I’ve just met a girl with"
> >
> >
> > MARGARET E WINTERS
> > Professor Emerita French and Linguistics
> > Wayne State University
> > Detroit, MI  48202
> >
> > mewinters at wayne.edu<mailto:mewinters at wayne.edu>
> >
> > On Jul 29, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU<
> mailto:laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>> wrote:
> >
> > And no relation to the Mariah they call the wind, given the spelling. In
> fact, the original version of the song went “They call the wind Mariah with
> an <h> to distinguish it from the black paddy wagon”, but it didn’t scan.
> >
> > LH
> >
> > On Jul 29, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Margaret Winters <mewinters at WAYNE.EDU
> <mailto:mewinters at WAYNE.EDU>> wrote:
> >
> > According to Wikipedia (s.v. black mariah):
> >
> > Black Maria, a slang term for a police van<https://en.wikipedia.org/
> wiki/Police_van> used to transport prisoners, originally these were horse
> drawn and so could take some time to arrive at a crime scene. “Black Maria”
> was a famous racehorse of the day, born in Harlem USA in 1826. The name was
> sardonically applied to the police carriages (which were also usually
> colored black).
> >
> >
> > For what it is worth, the site World Wide Words (
> http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bla1.htm) likes this story too since
> the dates for the race horse and the van are properly in line.  They deny
> any suggestion about a woman named Mariah (black or white) and mention the
> song only to provide a guide to the pronunciation of the name (not to be
> confused with "Ave Maria").
> >
> > World Wide Words: Black Maria<http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bla1.
> htm>
> > www.worldwidewords.org<http://www.worldwidewords.org>
> > Where does the slang term 'Black Maria' for a police van come from?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------
> > MARGARET E WINTERS
> > Former Provost
> > Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> > Wayne State University
> > Detroit, MI  48202
> >
> > mewinters at wayne.edu<mailto:mewinters at wayne.edu>
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of paul johnson <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM
> <mailto:paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 1:04 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: paddy wagon
> >
> > Was that the same Mariah that the wind was named?
> >
> >
> > On 7/29/2017 11:27 AM, Margaret Winters wrote:
> > Geoff Nathan and I wondered about who Mariah was - it came up after this
> thread started, of course.
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------
> > MARGARET E WINTERS
> > Former Provost
> > Professor Emerita - French and Linguistics
> > Wayne State University
> > Detroit, MI  48202
> >
> > mewinters at wayne.edu<mailto:mewinters at wayne.edu>
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>> on behalf of Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM<mailto:wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>>
> > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 8:40 PM
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: paddy wagon
> >
> > I'd be very surprised to see "paddy wagon" applied to a "police car," at
> > least in the U.S.
> >
> > BTW, the predecessor of the "paddy wagon" was the "Black Mariah." A
> > different "slur"?
> >
> > My grandparents used "paddy wagon," but both were familiar with "Black
> > Mariah" from NYC in the '90s.
> >
> > (That's "1890s.")
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 7:13 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
> > adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com<mailto:adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > In April 2015 Stephen Goranson initiated a discussion thread about
> > "paddy wagon" by presenting some intriguing citations:
> >
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2015-April/136543.html
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > Though "paddy wagon" came to be associated with police vehicles, some
> > early uses associate it with wheelbarrows. OED (via Sam Clements) has
> > 1909 for "paddy wagon."
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > I presented some complementary matches for "Paddy's wheelbarrow".
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2015-April/136625.html
> >
> > The OED has the following definition for "paddy" and notes that it can
> > be derogatory.
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > paddy, n.2
> > 1. colloq.
> > a. Usually in form Paddy. An Irishman. Frequently used as a
> > derogatory form of address.
> > 1714   in R. Steele Poetical Misc. 201   Poor Paddy swears his whole
> > Week's Gains away.
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Here is the OED information for "paddy wagon" which is listed under
> > "paddy, n.2".
> >
> > [Begin excerpt]
> > paddy wagon  n. slang (orig. U.S.) a police van or car.
> >
> > 1909   Chicago Tribune 12 Sept. v. 3/1   Don't it make you think of
> > the paddy wagon going down the street to pinch a gambling joint?
> > [End excerpt]
> >
> > Garson
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Peter Reitan <pjreitan at hotmail.com
> <mailto:pjreitan at hotmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> > Even if it's true that it's a reference to Irishmen, they were typically
> > hired as policemen who manned and operated the police wagons, so it's
> more
> > descriptive than derogatory. Not every race/ethnic reference is a slur.
> > ________________________________
> > From: Wilson Gray<mailto:hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > Sent: ‎7/‎28/‎2017 15:54
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU><mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: paddy wagon
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU<mailto:
> ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>
> > Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM<mailto:hwgray at GMAIL.COM>>
> > Subject:      Re: paddy wagon
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------------
> > I wonder when Al discovered that it was a slur? I spent the greater
> > portion
> > of my life thinking that _paddy-wagon_ < "patty-wagon" < "patrol-wagon,"
> > with no reference to race or ethnicity. I've been familiar with _paddy_
> > itself since the beginning of time, but only as a synonym of e.g. _fade_
> > "white person" (as opposed to _shade_ "black person").
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
> > wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com<mailto:wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > The Rev. Al Sharpton on MSNBC's _Deadline: White House_:
> >
> > "[Now President Trump is] talking about 'paddy wagons' which, by the
> > way,
> > is a *slur*, Mr. President!"
> >
> > JL
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> > truth."
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Wilson
> > -----
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > -Mark Twain
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
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> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
> >
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> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



-- 
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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