[Ads-l] Clausewitz Quote

Dan Goncharoff thegonch at GMAIL.COM
Sun Jan 22 10:41:53 EST 2017


I agree on the 'policy' translation, but think it needs more analysis.

What kind of policy are we talking about, at a time of no democracy and no
German nation?

I wonder if the best context of the word is foreign policy, in the way
Realpolitik is seen primarily as referring to foreign policy.

On Jan 21, 2017 8:22 PM, "Jonathan Lighter" <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:

My understanding is that "Politik" translates into English as either
"politics" or "policy," or both.

The context suggests that "policy" is the dominant sense, if one must
choose.  "Politics" used to refer primarily to policies and governing, but
now it often refers to merely self-serving or cynical maneuvers. To write
"politics" may now imply to the masses that C. meant that war is chiefly an
instrument of corrupt politicians, which I feel sure he did *not* mean.

May I suggest, "War is a continuation [or "an extension"] of [politics and]
policy with the use of additional means" ?

Not strictly literal, but clear and balanced.  And good enough for
government work.

JL

On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 7:40 PM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:

> Caution: I do not fit into the requested categories of military
> historian or person knowledgeable of the German language.
> Nevertheless, this message may provide useful information:
>
> Here is another version of the saying in German (and English further
> below):
>
> Der Krieg ist eine bloße Fortsetzung der Politik mit andern Mitteln
>
> The above version appears as the title of section 24 of Book 1 Chapter 1
> On page 28 of 1932 edition
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=DJ5DAAAAcAAJ&q=%
> 22Der+Krieg+ist+eine+blo%C3%9Fe%22#v=snippet&
>
> [Begin raw OCR text from Google Books]
> Der Krieg ist eine bloße Fortsetzung der Politik mit andern Mitteln
>
> So sehen wir also daß der Krieg nicht bloß ein politischer Akt sondern
> ein wahres politisches Instrument ist eine Fortsetzung des politischen
> Verkehrs ein Durchführen desselben mit andern Mitteln Was dem Kriege
> nun noch eigenthümlich bleibt bezieht stch bloß auf die eigenthüm
> liche Natur seiner Mittel Daß die Richtungen und Ab
> [End raw OCR text]
>
> Below is an early version in English.
> On War by Carl von Clausewitz; translated by Colonel J. J. Graham
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=P1UBAAAAQAAJ&q=%
> 22War+is+a+mere%22#v=snippet&
>
> [Begin 1873 translation by J.J. Graham]
> 24. -- War is a mere continuation of policy by other means.
>
> We see, therefore, that war is not merely a political act, but also a
> real political instrument, a continuation of political commerce, a
> carrying out of the same by other means. All beyond this which is
> strictly peculiar to war relates merely to the peculiar nature of the
> means which it uses.
> [End translation]
>
> Garson
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu>
> wrote:
> > I am having trouble with a very famous quotation and am hoping that some
> military historians or persons knowledgeable about the German language
(or,
> ideally, military historians who are knowledgeable about the German
> language) can help me.
> >
> >
> > In the Yale Book of Quotations I have the following:
> >
> >
> > Der Krieg ist nichts anderes als die Fortsetzung der Politik mit anderen
> Mitteln.
> >
> > War is the continuation of politics by other means.
> >
> > Karl von Clausewitz, On War bk. 8, ch. 6 (1832-1834)
> >
> >
> > My first question is, is this particular sentence the best-known version
> of this thought by Clausewitz (I believe he stated it more than once in
his
> writings)? or is there another better-known version?
> >
> >
> > My second question is, is this the most accurate translation? if there
> is another passage that is the best-known version, what is the most
> accurate translation of that?  I suspect a better translation of my
version
> above is "War is nothing but the continuation of politics with other
means."
> >
> >
> > Fred Shapiro
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



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