[Ads-l] "Alternative facts" for EOTY

ADSGarson O'Toole adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
Wed Jan 25 14:56:15 EST 2017


JL wrote:
> Thanks, Garson.

You're welcome,

> Consider that an entertaining or moralizing "fable" is not quite the same
> as a "lie."

Yes, I agree that a "fable" and a "lie" are quite distinct. I have
grouped quotations using those words into a family because I think it
helps to illustrate the evolution of the saying.

Your suggestion that there is a connection between the following two
statements is valuable although at this time I have not attempted to
trace the conjectural transition from the first to the second:

"History is a lie agreed upon"
"Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon"

Garson

> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> A Washington Post reporter on MSNBC, attempting strict objectivity,
>> offhandedly referred to Mr. Trump's "alternative facts" as "mistruths."
>>
>> JL
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:48 AM, ADSGarson O'Toole <
>> adsgarsonotoole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>> > The Net finds numerous recent posts asserting that leading self-help
>>> guru
>>> > Friedrich Nietzsche once wrote, "What is the truth but a lie agreed
>>> upon?"
>>> >
>>> > And if a bigshot said it, it must be true.
>>> >
>>> > GB reveals no authentic attributions to Freddy, and none before 2016.
>>>
>>> I have examined a family of relayed sayings about historical truth:
>>>
>>> What Is History But a Fable Agreed Upon?
>>> http://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/07/05/fable/
>>>
>>> [Begin excerpt]
>>> Dear Quote Investigator: A popular skeptical viewpoint about history
>>> can be expressed in a few different ways:
>>>
>>> 1) What is history but a fable agreed upon?
>>> 2) History is a set of lies agreed upon.
>>> 3) History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon.
>>> [End excerpt]
>>>
>>> Garson
>>>
>>> >
>>> > A blog site confidently attributes "Truth Is a Lie Agreed Upon" to (wait
>>> > for it)..."Abraham Lincoln."
>>> >
>>> > Cf. the older and ever-popular "History is a lie agreed upon."
>>> >
>>> > So who, Garson, really introduced the phrase attributed to Nietzsche?
>>> >
>>> > JL
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> > On Jan 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Joel Berson <berson at ATT.NET> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > A la "alt right"?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Joel
>>> >>
>>> >> Seems so.  OED, s.v. “alt”:
>>> >> Alternative; spec. denoting a version of some cultural phenomenon
>>> (orig.
>>> >> and esp. music) that is regarded as outside the mainstream of its
>>> genre.
>>> >> [citing “alt.rock” and “alt country”]
>>> >>
>>> >> So alt facts would be a cultural phenomenon regarded as outside the
>>> >> mainstream of the fact genre (in being, well, not true).
>>> >>
>>> >> LH
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >      From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> >> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 8:02 PM
>>> >> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "Alternative facts" for EOTY
>>> >> >
>>> >> > MSNBC is now using the short form "alt facts."
>>> >> >
>>> >> > JL
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter <
>>> >> wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Wrong! Wrong!
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Not a falsehood! It's an important alternate fact.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Also note my signature line of many years standing.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> JL
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> >> truth."
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> >> truth."
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>> truth."
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


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